RSS Feed
Jerusalem - Rivkah's Father: She Was Expecting A Child |
|
| |
Text Size
|
Holy Rebbetzin Rivkah
Her father told mourners during the eulogy that his daughter had been expecting another child.
It has also emerged that the couple's surviving two-year-old son appears to have been beaten by the militants.
The Holtzbergs were preparing for the Shabat, or Jewish weekend, with their son Moshe at their religious centre in the backstreets of Mumbai last week when it was targeted by terrorists.
Mr Holtzberg was able to phone the Israeli consulate to raise the alarm before the line went dead. He, his wife and four others were killed.
Moshe and his nanny, Sandra Samuel, managed to get out alive.
The chairman of Zaka, Israel's ultraorthodox recovery service, has told Sky News Moshe's back was covered with bruises consistent with some form of abuse.
The story of the Holtzberg family has been followed with nationwide anguish.
Ms Samuel was able to hide in the building's laundry cupboard after gunmen stormed in.
According to sources close to the family, some time later she heard Mrs Holtzberg crying for help.
Risking her life she left her hiding place. By the time she reached Mrs Holtzberg she was dead, and Moshe was standing over her body crying, his clothes stained with blood.
Ms Samuel took a gamble, grabbed the boy and ran out of the building.
Pictures of the two escaping to safety gripped Israelis watching the crisis unfold on television.
Later they would watch Indian commandos storm the building and engage in gun battles with the terrorists.
Hours later, it was confirmed everyone inside was dead.
Fresh pictures have emerged showing Moshe in Mumbai at a ceremony to remember his parents.
His face is streamed with tears as he calls out repeatedly for his mother and father.
He returned to Israel with his nanny on the same plane that brought his parents' bodies home.
His family say Ms Samuel is the only person he responds to and they have asked the state of Israel to allow her to move to the country to be with him.
More of today's headlines
“New York City - Mayor Bloomberg signed Councilman Felder’s parking meter bill into law yesterday. The new law will clarify the rules for parking at a broken parking...”
New York City - New Law Will Reduce The Number of Unfair Parking Tickets
New York - Nonprofit Security Grants Available Soon
Total83
Read Comments (83) — Post Yours »
1
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:37 AM Anonymous Says:
nebech, nebech. the worse STILL continues to get worse.
Yemach shemom v'zichrum
'mi sheomar l'oilumo dai yomar l'tzuroseinu dai"...
2
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:37 AM Anonymous Says:
What can we say
3
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:51 AM Anonymous Says:
T'Zatikay(es) Umos Ha'olam here in our time.
4
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:46 AM yisrael chaim ben divber halevi Says:
Im sick.....
5
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:45 AM Anonymous Says:
OMG. Speechless - wordless - grief stricken - sick to my stomach. Who can hurt a child? What kind of animal. My only question is why why why did they not (Baruich HASHEM BARUCH HASHEM BARUCH HASHEM) kill him. It seems they had the oppurtunity. The debriefings on this will only get worse. Once we get the whole picture we will really really be sick. Now we know she was pregnant. Hashem - only yu know why.
6
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:45 AM Lebediger Says:
mi sheumar leoilumoi dei yoimar letzuroisiney dei
7
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:44 AM kramash cace Says:
this meins 7 jews nebech gat killed
8
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:42 AM Anonymous Says:
nebech, nebech. the NEWS STILL continues to get worse.
Yemach shemom v'zichrum
'mi sheomar l'oilumo dai yomar l'tzuroseinu dai"...
9
Dec 02, 2008 at 12:02 PM Chesed 1 Says:
“
nebech, nebech. the worse STILL continues to get worse.
Yemach shemom v'zichrum
'mi sheomar l'oilumo dai yomar l'tzuroseinu dai"... ”
It's mamesh a kidush hashem to see that yiden thruout the entire world is so overcome w/emotions about this terrible tragedy wherever you go you can see it on everyone's face . i travel to china alot i know what it means for these shiluchim to live there and keep there bais chabad up & running May hashem give energy for all these families to go along with it especially for this small moshe'le my heart goes out for him at such a young age nebach what he went thru.... But one thing for sure lets make our achdes stonger lets try our best to help one another and may we be zoich to the geula shleima bekurov mamesh.
10
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:56 AM Anonymous Says:
what is there to say now is the time to act!! we must strengthen ourselves with torah and mitzvos and masim tovim and AHAVAS YISROEL may our cries peirce the heavens and may hashem send us our salvation MOSIACH!!!
11
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:56 AM Anonymous Says:
It seems there is conflicting info about how many children they had. Other sources have said they have one child who is ill and lives in EY, one child passed away and Moishe.
12
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:45 AM Anonymous Says:
the cries from all these levayos especially the cries of the children should pirce the heavens and go straight to teh kisai hakavod and demand that mashiach come now!!
13
Dec 02, 2008 at 12:10 PM Anonymous Says:
Ribono Shel Olam! I can't take it anymore! Please! Please! Take us out from this bitter Golus. If we are not worthy for redemption. Asei L'Maancho. Since B'Chol Tzorosom Loi Tzor, your suffering will stop as well, when you redeem us. So, don't suffer any longer, take us out from this Golus, Now Please.
14
Dec 02, 2008 at 12:06 PM ChaimRubin Says:
I honestly can not handle any more. I can't read one more story or article.
I think I'm turning everything off for a day.
This is just too much to handle.
15
Dec 02, 2008 at 12:04 PM Anonymous Says:
She was pregnant with her fourth child, not her second, if you count her child that died in childbirth. She left two survivimg children
16
Dec 02, 2008 at 12:22 PM disgusted Says:
Terrible...but some incorrect facts.
The Holtzbergs first child passed away (R"L), their second is hospitalized.Moshe, zol er zain gezunt und shtark, is their third.
Secondly, since when is the 'chairmen of ZAKA' a physician? How does he come to comment on the physical condition of the child? And if he knows this info, why is releasing it? Did the family ask him to?
This nonesense with ZAKA continues. Will they just do their job and SHUT UP!!
17
Dec 02, 2008 at 12:22 PM Anonymous Says:
It actually would have been their fourth child. They lost one child to Tay-Sachs and have another one in Israel that also has Tay-Sachs, and Moshe, who B"H seems healthy.
18
Dec 02, 2008 at 12:31 PM Anonymous Says:
Why would they bring the child to the funeral?
19
Dec 02, 2008 at 12:27 PM Moishe Zichmech Says:
Huh? I thought she had a child that past away and another child that's ill with tea sacs?
20
Dec 02, 2008 at 12:42 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why would they bring the child to the funeral? ”
who can judge? They are not living normal lives now. They cant be thinking straight - they must be zombies.
21
Dec 02, 2008 at 12:50 PM Anonymous Says:
And what is the harm to bring the child to the funeral?
I agree with #16 re: ZAKA. They need to be pulled in a bit. They should continue to do their holy work and shut up.
22
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:10 PM Anonymous Says:
It's a good thing they're bringing the nanny to Eretz Yisroel, since she's the one he's comfortable with. But what about her future? Maybe it's time for civil marriage there.
23
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:28 PM SB Says:
“ Terrible...but some incorrect facts.
The Holtzbergs first child passed away (R"L), their second is hospitalized.Moshe, zol er zain gezunt und shtark, is their third.
Secondly, since when is the 'chairmen of ZAKA' a physician? How does he come to comment on the physical condition of the child? And if he knows this info, why is releasing it? Did the family ask him to?
This nonesense with ZAKA continues. Will they just do their job and SHUT UP!! ”
How can Anyone speak against Zaka???!!! Have you ever touched a dead body, picked up bits and pieces of one, smelled the stench and decay?!!!Rachmone litzlon
Be quiet and kiss their feet!!
They can say what they want because they DO!!!!
24
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:25 PM A Yid Says:
“ What can we say ”
We can more Psalm
25
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:35 PM Anonymous Says:
“ How can Anyone speak against Zaka???!!! Have you ever touched a dead body, picked up bits and pieces of one, smelled the stench and decay?!!!Rachmone litzlon
Be quiet and kiss their feet!!
They can say what they want because they DO!!!! ”
sory no offense but thats such a silly comment what gives them the right to say what they want just because they help in one area that dosent mean they should be allowed to cause damage in another area.
26
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:34 PM Even worser Says:
its worser than the worse
27
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:31 PM Anonymous Says:
I am a litfeshe bal habos with no coneection at all to Lubavitch but I have to say that the mesiros nefesh these shluchim show is not to be believed. They go to these far out places at complete personal sarifice in order to be marbitz torah and be mikayim the will of the Rebbe zatzal. The Holtzberg we trully kedoshim because they were killed doing this. The kedusha is not to be believed. I may be stepping out of line hear but let me say the following: The mesiros nefesh shown by the shluchim of lebavitch is something that all the other sects of klal yisroel can look up to and try to emulate.
28
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:11 PM Rachel from Kiryas Joel Says:
If tears could build a stairway,
And grieving a lane,
I'd walk right up to Heaven
And bring moshiach now..
29
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:15 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I am a litfeshe bal habos with no coneection at all to Lubavitch but I have to say that the mesiros nefesh these shluchim show is not to be believed. They go to these far out places at complete personal sarifice in order to be marbitz torah and be mikayim the will of the Rebbe zatzal. The Holtzberg we trully kedoshim because they were killed doing this. The kedusha is not to be believed. I may be stepping out of line hear but let me say the following: The mesiros nefesh shown by the shluchim of lebavitch is something that all the other sects of klal yisroel can look up to and try to emulate. ”
1oo% True.......
30
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:20 PM Anonymous Says:
"I am a litfeshe bal habos with no coneection at all to Lubavitch..."
Just FYI, by opening with this blatant dig you have effectively nullified all the obsequious Sh'vach in the rest of your commment. You pat the Rebbe's shluchim on the back only to stab with a knife. Brilliant!
31
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:20 PM Anonymous Says:
please don't call them militants they are evil reshoim atleas tcal lthem terrorist murderers
32
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:06 PM Anonymous Says:
maybe this shouldn't be a forum for accusations and machlokes fueling
33
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:05 PM Yisrael Chaim Ben Dov ber Halevi Says:
Dont try to make sense of this , Because we cant....Those who did this ,are animals, less then animals.. I am truly sick....
34
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:04 PM Avi from Williamsburg Says:
in Yermiyaho it says " ish veisho oileil veyonaic." Why is an innocent child being punished? Why is a pregnant women being punished? We just dont understand hashem ways .
35
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:02 PM SG Says:
THE MASHGIACH RAV MOSHE WOLFSON SHLIT'A SPOKE AT THE FRIDAY NIGHT "SHEVES ACHIM" A FEW OF THE POINTS IN SHORT
1. THE ZOHAR HAKADOSH DESCRIBES THE FEELINGS (KAVIYACHOL) ENVOKED IN HASHEM WHEN A JEW IS KILLED
2. THE ZOHAR CONTINUES THAT THE NESHAMA PASSES THRU THE MEARAS HAMACHPELA AND CONTINUES DIRECTLY TO THE HIGHEST SPHERES IN GAN EDEN NEXT TO MELECH HAMOSHIACH
3.A KLAL IN CHASIDUS IS THAT THE WAY A PERSON FILLS HIS DAYS IN THIS WORLD IS WHAT HIS NESHOMO CONTINUES TO DO IN OLAM HAEMES
4 RAV WOLFSON SAID FURTHER, THAT THE HOLTZBERGS WERE SHLUCHIM OF THEIR GREAT REBBE & SO MUCH HACHNOSAS ORCHIM & KIRUV WAS DONE THRU THEM , & THEREFORE THEY WILL CONTINUE THEIR SHLICHUS IN SHOMAYIM
THAT AS THEIR NESHOMOS PASS THRU THE MEARAS HAMACHPEILA THEY SHALL APPEAL TO AVROHOM AVINU WHOS WORK THEY CONTINUED & IMPLORE HIS RACHAMIM
5.THE MERE FACT THAT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF JEWS WHO DONT EVEN KNOW THEM PERSONALLY WALKED AROUND DISTRAUGHT & WORRIED FOR THEIR WELFARE IS A TREMENDOUS ZECHUS OF THE TRUE NITZCHIYUS & ONENESS OF THE NISHMAS YISROEL
6.WHEN THINGS ARE "TUMELING " IN THIS WORLD IT MEANS THAT IN SHOMAYIM ITS ALSO TUMELING
& LASTLY THAT MANY TIMES EVIL THINGS COME BEFORE GOOD & THE MASHGIACH ENCOURAGED EVERYBODY TO STRIVE FOR WHATS IMPORTANT & GROW IN AVODAS HASHEM VIVASER LANU BESOROS TOVOS
36
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:54 PM Anonymous Says:
“ How can Anyone speak against Zaka???!!! Have you ever touched a dead body, picked up bits and pieces of one, smelled the stench and decay?!!!Rachmone litzlon
Be quiet and kiss their feet!!
They can say what they want because they DO!!!! ”
Very well said. ZAKA is incredible...they are made of steel to be able to do what they do & people are complaining???!!!
When will you all get it into your thick skulls that this tsur will continue until we show Achdus & true Ahavas Yisroel. Learn some self control. Think before you say it.
37
Dec 02, 2008 at 01:54 PM Anonymous Says:
I watched the whole levaye-- what we were able to, live. THE FATHER OF RIVKA SAID SHE WAS FIVE MONTHS PREGNANT. I HEARD IT SO STOP SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT ZAKA.
My cousin used to work in zaka-- he was pretty high up with the snazzy van and all, the memories that constantly chase him, the horrors, -- how can we judge? So all you out there zog a kappittel tehillim and beg Hashem to bring moshaich right now.
38
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:29 PM Avi from Williamsburg Says:
Death leaves a heartache no one can heal, But a memory of kidoshim is something no one can steal.
39
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:29 PM yid Says:
bde
40
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:44 PM NAME WITHHELD Says:
“ Terrible...but some incorrect facts.
The Holtzbergs first child passed away (R"L), their second is hospitalized.Moshe, zol er zain gezunt und shtark, is their third.
Secondly, since when is the 'chairmen of ZAKA' a physician? How does he come to comment on the physical condition of the child? And if he knows this info, why is releasing it? Did the family ask him to?
This nonesense with ZAKA continues. Will they just do their job and SHUT UP!! ”
ITS REALLY NOT IMORTANT AND NO ONES BUSINESS ALL THESE LITTLE NITTY GRITTY, BOTTOM LINE IS YOU MUST LEARN FROM THIS TRAGEDY THESE PEOPLE WERE NEBACH KORBANOS FOR OUR SINS, WE NEED TO BETTER OURSELVES , WE NEED TO BE KIND TO EACH OTHER RESPECT ONE ANOTHER AND WATCH YOUR MOUTH... STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO DO IT JUST WONT HELP. ARE WE TRUELY HAPPY WHEN THINGS GO GOOD FOR OUR NEIGHBORS, SIBLING OR FRIEND??? SEE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOUR LIFE IS IN ORDER AND TAKE SOMETHING UPON YOURSELF THAT COULD ONLY BRING THE GEULAH IN A SAFE AND HAPPY WAY. MAY WE ALL BE ZOCHA TO FIND THE CHASORON IN OURSELF, AND NOT IN OTHERS, AND SEE TO CHANGE IT ASAP. WE DONT AND CANT SEE OUR BROTHERS IN SUCH PAIN.
MAY HASHEM HELP US ACHEIVE OUR GOAL . AMEN.
41
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:42 PM Anonymous Says:
OMG 5 months pregnant - my heart is broken
42
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:42 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I am a litfeshe bal habos with no coneection at all to Lubavitch but I have to say that the mesiros nefesh these shluchim show is not to be believed. They go to these far out places at complete personal sarifice in order to be marbitz torah and be mikayim the will of the Rebbe zatzal. The Holtzberg we trully kedoshim because they were killed doing this. The kedusha is not to be believed. I may be stepping out of line hear but let me say the following: The mesiros nefesh shown by the shluchim of lebavitch is something that all the other sects of klal yisroel can look up to and try to emulate. ”
Interesting that your feelings do not represent the rest of the litfishe world. I received word this morning that in the litfishe schools in Israel there was no mention of the attack because it involved Chabad. I am wondering if this is true and why, can anyone confirm?.
43
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:56 PM a.c. Says:
truly sickening how these terrorists can just kill and torture without regard for human life including their own. may hashem take nekama on all of the people responsible for these attacks in this world and may they burn for eternity on the deepest depths of gehinam. after seeing the faces of the chabbad rebbe and his wife, and the face of their innocent child i will never be the same.
we need mashiach now. everyone stop fighting. who cares what zaka said or didnt. who cares what this sect of orthodoxy holds or what that one holds. achdut . kol yisrael aravim ze lazeh. just like we are all together as one when lo aleinu tragedy strikes, we should be as one always. perhaps if we learn that , then the unbelievably terrible loss of these kedoshim will at least not be in complete vain. we all come from abraham abinu, from yitzhak abinu and from yaacov abinu who we are reading about now in the torah. we all worship the same boreh olam yishtabach shemu. lets try and realize that inside the frock or just a tee shirt and jeans; inside the fur hat, regular black hat, just a kippah or completely bear head, we are all the same. we all have holy neshamot. lets start recognizing the trillions of similarities between us and not the few differences. from the lubavitch we can learn mesirut nefesh for spreading torah to the entire world, from each sect of jews we can learn different things, instead of looking at differences and nitpicking.
i dont know who coined the phrase but someone wise once said that we look at others with a microscope and ourselves with a telescope, when in reality it should be the opposite way around.
44
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:55 PM Shmuelik Says:
“ Interesting that your feelings do not represent the rest of the litfishe world. I received word this morning that in the litfishe schools in Israel there was no mention of the attack because it involved Chabad. I am wondering if this is true and why, can anyone confirm?. ”
Why do you want to know? So you can affirm your prejudices and hatred?
Drop it! Focus on the good in everyone. Think, speak, and act on it so you can change your nature.
45
Dec 02, 2008 at 02:51 PM Anonymous in Miami Says:
With tears I write this note. Well said # 35. It's a terrible tragedy that has affected us all. May Hashem listen to our prayers & not let our tears go in vain. We need more achdus amongst klal yisroel. In so many of the logs there's already bickering. WHY?? Are we not learning great lessons here? We need to work on ourselves & help as many people as we can in life. We need to stop fighting with eachother. There is enough hate from other religions & people we don't need to add to it within ourselves. Little Moshe Tzvi has a very special neshama & Hashem will continue to protect him. May he grow up to continue the legacy of his parents & be a great source of light to Am Yisroel & the world. We need more tefillos & more tehillim said & we need to bring Moshiach now! The kedoshim have been laid to rest today and a new chapter in our lives to begin. Hashem yerachem, may He give all the families, friends & Moshele the strengh to bring more peace & light into this world and to wipe out the darkness that is growing so rapidly infront of all our eyes.
46
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:13 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why would they bring the child to the funeral? ”
Moshe - Their child was not at the funeral.
47
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:24 PM Anonymous Says:
Where is the Holzberg family? I only see the Rosenbergs at the Levaya.
48
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:21 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Ribono Shel Olam! I can't take it anymore! Please! Please! Take us out from this bitter Golus. If we are not worthy for redemption. Asei L'Maancho. Since B'Chol Tzorosom Loi Tzor, your suffering will stop as well, when you redeem us. So, don't suffer any longer, take us out from this Golus, Now Please. ”
your tefilloh is tremendous and hashem should see our achdus and cries and our tzibrochenkeit and it should be vesechzena eineinu bshuvcho ltzion brachamim
49
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:21 PM T S Says:
2. Moshe the orphan may have not been killed to be used as a hostage. Some say they planned a much longer affair to include consolidating their locations and negotiations for things. OR he may have falled asleep (after some blows?) and they got distracted, forgot about him, thought him as dead, etc. Children can shut down like that. Remember, he probably saw stuff no one good should ever see.
50
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:21 PM T S Says:
1. Zaka is great, but they may need some training on the softer aspects of their work - i.e. what to say and what not, after their holy work.
51
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:32 PM Anonymous Says:
“ How can Anyone speak against Zaka???!!! Have you ever touched a dead body, picked up bits and pieces of one, smelled the stench and decay?!!!Rachmone litzlon
Be quiet and kiss their feet!!
They can say what they want because they DO!!!! ”
You're not loyal to Zaka! Because everyone knows their mosiras nafesh, but their way of talking will spoil their respect. Nobody is 100% correct.
52
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:56 PM blondi Says:
dont u get it yet?!?!?A JEW IS A JEW...they dont care if ur a chassid or a litvish...orthodox or modern....ffb or bt....
53
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:54 PM Nachmi Nachmi Ami.. Says:
When Hashem Yisborach must utilize Midas Hadin, with his beloved Am Yisroel there's always His signature of Love in it, such as in this case of saving their son, through a very special miracle, leaving them a Kadish Zuger and Imy'h much nachas from generations to come.
54
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:48 PM Anonymous Says:
#17 Any reason why all this info needs to be passed on?
55
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:48 PM Tehillim'l Says:
“ If tears could build a stairway,
And grieving a lane,
I'd walk right up to Heaven
And bring moshiach now.. ”
With Sincere Emunah You Could.. Go For It Ruchel!
56
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:31 PM T S Says:
3. I hate hearing "religious" spins after a horror like this, with segulos, remozim, etc. If you believe in gd to the extent he controls all (except that he leaves yiras shomayim for you) then he orchestrated every aspect of this horror as much as whatever you'll say "good" he is doing.
It is NOT our duty to justify one horrible iota or promise ourself this was good for anyone. (If it was gd's miracle that Moshe lived, it was gd's miracle that X died).
Gam Zu Latova you can say on yourself and your issues. For someone else's Tzoro you mourn and if you can, to ease the tzoro. For those that were murdered, if it makes you feel better, for them you can learn mishnayos, name your child after them, etc. But the only real tangible thing you can do for this specific tzoro is to deal with those directly still affected and living. Your Boich Svoros do exactly what for the parents, brothers, children?
Find out (of course wait until after shiva and all the hoopla dies down) how to help them financially, socially.
Sure you can become a better person by embracing another who dresses differently than you, but if you are really bothered for the VICTIMS, (and not just that YOUR calm world has been shaken), if all your Oy-I-can't-take-this crying is from EMPATHY (look it up) and not just your own discomfort, then make sure you do your best to move past you computer screen and DO something for the living victims.
And if you can't do that (#1 then acknowledge you're not the saint you'd like to think you are, and #2) fight "darkness" in general by creating more light, so the next attempt at darkness has a harder time of finding a dark corner.
And what do I mean by light?
You work on it.
57
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:15 PM Anonymous Says:
“ "I am a litfeshe bal habos with no coneection at all to Lubavitch..."
Just FYI, by opening with this blatant dig you have effectively nullified all the obsequious Sh'vach in the rest of your commment. You pat the Rebbe's shluchim on the back only to stab with a knife. Brilliant! ”
I really don't think he meant that as a "dig." I'm also not Lubavitch but have plenty of friends who are. What does it matter? I think he's trying to say that this tragedy has affected us all very deeply, whatever our "brand" of frumkeit. Let's stop trying to read insults between the lines of sh'vach -- doing so does NOT lead to achdus!!!
58
Dec 02, 2008 at 04:40 PM Mispacha Says:
“ I am a litfeshe bal habos with no coneection at all to Lubavitch but I have to say that the mesiros nefesh these shluchim show is not to be believed. They go to these far out places at complete personal sarifice in order to be marbitz torah and be mikayim the will of the Rebbe zatzal. The Holtzberg we trully kedoshim because they were killed doing this. The kedusha is not to be believed. I may be stepping out of line hear but let me say the following: The mesiros nefesh shown by the shluchim of lebavitch is something that all the other sects of klal yisroel can look up to and try to emulate. ”
Thank you. Beautiful!
Hinei Ma Tov umano-im Sheves Achim Gam Yachad.
We are one family. One family. Please, let us not argue so much and fight. We have only each other.
59
Dec 02, 2008 at 04:30 PM Anonymous Says:
“
3. I hate hearing "religious" spins after a horror like this, with segulos, remozim, etc. If you believe in gd to the extent he controls all (except that he leaves yiras shomayim for you) then he orchestrated every aspect of this horror as much as whatever you'll say "good" he is doing.
It is NOT our duty to justify one horrible iota or promise ourself this was good for anyone. (If it was gd's miracle that Moshe lived, it was gd's miracle that X died).
Gam Zu Latova you can say on yourself and your issues. For someone else's Tzoro you mourn and if you can, to ease the tzoro. For those that were murdered, if it makes you feel better, for them you can learn mishnayos, name your child after them, etc. But the only real tangible thing you can do for this specific tzoro is to deal with those directly still affected and living. Your Boich Svoros do exactly what for the parents, brothers, children?
Find out (of course wait until after shiva and all the hoopla dies down) how to help them financially, socially.
Sure you can become a better person by embracing another who dresses differently than you, but if you are really bothered for the VICTIMS, (and not just that YOUR calm world has been shaken), if all your Oy-I-can't-take-this crying is from EMPATHY (look it up) and not just your own discomfort, then make sure you do your best to move past you computer screen and DO something for the living victims.
And if you can't do that (#1 then acknowledge you're not the saint you'd like to think you are, and #2) fight "darkness" in general by creating more light, so the next attempt at darkness has a harder time of finding a dark corner.
And what do I mean by light?
You work on it.
”
Well put -I was beginning to be skeptical of all these krechtzes ,Its a way of vindicating non-action and feeling better after this horrible tragedy but what tangible gain is there? Im going to donate money while all of you play the blame game and krechtz and Im not even religious according to these judgmental posters here .
60
Dec 02, 2008 at 03:58 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Where is the Holzberg family? I only see the Rosenbergs at the Levaya. ”
They were there. R Holtzberg isn't a rov or other kind of public speaker, so he wasn't on the list of speakers, but when he went up to tear kriya he said a few words in Yiddish. (Literally a few words, not like a darshan whose "few words" can go on for 10 minutes; this was more like 30 seconds.)
61
Dec 02, 2008 at 04:52 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I really don't think he meant that as a "dig." I'm also not Lubavitch but have plenty of friends who are. What does it matter? I think he's trying to say that this tragedy has affected us all very deeply, whatever our "brand" of frumkeit. Let's stop trying to read insults between the lines of sh'vach -- doing so does NOT lead to achdus!!! ”
agreed. i am the one who wrote the post and all i meant is practically my day in day out life does involve lebavitch. not becasue i have something against them chas vsholom but because i live in flatbush and practically dont come accross them. however made that initial diyuk in my words has way to much time on their hands.
62
Dec 02, 2008 at 05:05 PM Disgusted Says:
“ How can Anyone speak against Zaka???!!! Have you ever touched a dead body, picked up bits and pieces of one, smelled the stench and decay?!!!Rachmone litzlon
Be quiet and kiss their feet!!
They can say what they want because they DO!!!! ”
It is because the answer to your second question is YES, that I will not be quite and I will not kiss their feet, as long as they are doing things that are THE VERY OPPOSITE of Kovod Hameis.
Was in to add to Kovod Hamiesim that:
1) Pictures were being snapped while they were doing their holy work of evacuating the Kedoshim from the house?
and if the answer to that is yes, did it add to Kovod Hameisim that:
2) A picture was taken of one of the Kedoshim lying in the Seforim room
and if the answer to that is yes, did it add to Kovod Hameisim that:
3) This picture was handled recklessly and was posted on a public website
and if the answer to that is yes, did it add to Kovod Hameisim that:
4) members of ZAKA felt it their duty to report on the condition of the bodies.
The above are not only NOT Kovod Hameis, but it the direct opposite of everything ZAKA THEMSELVES claim their orginization stands for, namely the preservation of Kovod Hameis thru HATZNEI LECHES.
I would just add that there was a goy that managed to get into the house right after the shooting stopped, and he took photographs, some of them of the bodies. He posted a link to those photos on Twitter. He did not include those of the bodies.
He asked those on twitter if he should include the photographs of the bodies. The response was about 50-50. He decided not to show them, he said he felt it just wouldn't be right.
How is it this person had the sensitivity that ZAKA seem to be lacking (in this case, at least)?
I will kiss the feet of ZAKA for all the amazing, holy work they do.
But, if they ABUSE THEIR position, I will stand on the rooftops and shout it out, because 1) It is wrong 2) they are jepordizing the ability to operate the next time (R"L we should never need it) they may be needed.
63
Dec 02, 2008 at 05:38 PM Rachel from Kiryas Joel Says:
This is what the kedoshim are telling us now:
Perhaps our time seemed all too brief
Do not stand at our graves and weep,
We are no more there, but we do not sleep.
We are quiet birds circling in flight,
banging on the Kisa hakoved to bring moshiach now
and light up the night.
64
Dec 02, 2008 at 05:38 PM anonymous Says:
oy, this sickens me. the fact that mrs. holtzberg was pregnant just adds to our grief. regarding the "marks" seen on moshe's back, as a parent, i can tell you, once one of my kids got hives and it mamesh looked like someone had beat him up, chas v'shalom. so maybe little moshe was having an allergic reaction to something and it showed up on his back. at least, this is what i will believe because i am unable to believe the other explanation. the whole thing is just sick beyond belief.
65
Dec 02, 2008 at 06:15 PM Just saying Says:
He could have fallen out of his bed or climbed out when the attack took place.
Why speculate? We weren't there and don't have the answers.
66
Dec 02, 2008 at 06:11 PM michal Says:
“ Interesting that your feelings do not represent the rest of the litfishe world. I received word this morning that in the litfishe schools in Israel there was no mention of the attack because it involved Chabad. I am wondering if this is true and why, can anyone confirm?. ”
In my daughter's school here in the US (a litvishe school), they did not mention this tragedy. This is very unfortunate, because It sends a wrong message to our children.
67
Dec 02, 2008 at 06:29 PM a friend of the holtzbergs Says:
“ It seems there is conflicting info about how many children they had. Other sources have said they have one child who is ill and lives in EY, one child passed away and Moishe. ”
the holtzbergs had three children. THE OLDEST CHILD PASSED AWAY FROM CANCER, the second child had tay sachs, THE THIRD MOISHE WAS RIPPED AWAY FROM HIS MOTHER, and the unborn never made it to this world! nebach! THE FAMILY ONLY SUFFERED TILL NOW!! We need to daven for them!!
68
Dec 02, 2008 at 06:35 PM Elchonon Says:
Zaka is a mosed, no pictures no fund raising.. they have alot of expenses sorry.. would you rather it was indian security that cleaned up the meisim? who would have insured there was no autopsy ? stop being so quick to attack what YOU dont see as fit.
#2 if there were no pictures, the tragedy would not be documented.. we would not have seen the full horror of this attack, the merka harav attack.
Did you know that zaka recovered a desecrated sefer torah and buried it ?
Zaka has its limits as they refused to dig up the kevorim in gush katif and have my ever lasting respect.
Rav yehuda meshi-zahav is a holy jew who also isnt afraid to speak up when needed.
Most aka volunteers are also EMT / Medic's with ichud hatala / MDA.
I have become more vocal now, jews need to arm them selfs!
I have lived in yehuda / shomron / gaza for over 6 years.. I know too many jews alive after having defended themdelf's with guns.. I r'l lehavdil have been to too many levayos of kedoshim!
While shouting ad mosai and doing all we can to hasten the fial redemption.. lets do our part!
I was standing across the road from mearas hamachpela, I complained to the IDF commander of chevron against the deployment of PA police.. he said "so daven".. I pointed across the street "he (yakov avinu) davend, sent presents and also prepared for war"
Me.. I daven.. I am not sending the arabs any gifts.. but I will sct b'derech hateva to defend myself!
69
Dec 02, 2008 at 07:40 PM friends of the holtzbergs Says:
“ Where is the Holzberg family? I only see the Rosenbergs at the Levaya. ”
WHAT DO U THINK? THIS IS NOT A SHOW.... ALL THE HOLTZBERG SIBLINGS AND BOTH PARENTS FLEW TO ERETZ YISROEL THURSDAY AND WERE AWAITING THE NEWS OF THEIR SON AND BROTHER! THE ONLY FOUND OUT MOTZEI SHABBOS! NEBACH! THEY ALL LEFT VERY LARGE FAMILIES IN CROWN HEIGHTS TO BE TOG IN E"Y! OF COURSE THEY WERE THERE! NOT EVERYONE HAS TO BE CENTER STAGE FOR THE MEDIA TO SEE THEM! SOME OF THE KIDS IN CROWN HEIGHTS ARE LEFT BEHIND WITH FEVER ETC BEING CARED FOR BY FAMILY IN SUCH A DIFFICULT TIME! MAY HASHEM GIVE THEM LOTS OF KOCHOS TO BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND THIS HARD TIME!
70
Dec 02, 2008 at 07:58 PM Anonymous Says:
Please just concentrate on unity. One Great Rebbe said that if all hands of Klal Yisroel would unite we would reach the כסה הכבוד and משיח would come. Lets focus on everyone good מעלות and UNITE TODAY and end the GOLUS. Does anyone have a idea how to create a massive campain of uniting all fronts of Klal Yisroel?
71
Dec 02, 2008 at 07:28 PM yiddele Says:
“
3. I hate hearing "religious" spins after a horror like this, with segulos, remozim, etc. If you believe in gd to the extent he controls all (except that he leaves yiras shomayim for you) then he orchestrated every aspect of this horror as much as whatever you'll say "good" he is doing.
It is NOT our duty to justify one horrible iota or promise ourself this was good for anyone. (If it was gd's miracle that Moshe lived, it was gd's miracle that X died).
Gam Zu Latova you can say on yourself and your issues. For someone else's Tzoro you mourn and if you can, to ease the tzoro. For those that were murdered, if it makes you feel better, for them you can learn mishnayos, name your child after them, etc. But the only real tangible thing you can do for this specific tzoro is to deal with those directly still affected and living. Your Boich Svoros do exactly what for the parents, brothers, children?
Find out (of course wait until after shiva and all the hoopla dies down) how to help them financially, socially.
Sure you can become a better person by embracing another who dresses differently than you, but if you are really bothered for the VICTIMS, (and not just that YOUR calm world has been shaken), if all your Oy-I-can't-take-this crying is from EMPATHY (look it up) and not just your own discomfort, then make sure you do your best to move past you computer screen and DO something for the living victims.
And if you can't do that (#1 then acknowledge you're not the saint you'd like to think you are, and #2) fight "darkness" in general by creating more light, so the next attempt at darkness has a harder time of finding a dark corner.
And what do I mean by light?
You work on it.
”
The main reason for death especially for such horrifying publicized tragedys. is for the reason stated in the posuk
koheles 7 p.2 והחי יתן אל לבו . meaning that the ones who are still alive need to put their heart to mind and learn what ever they can from that event.
being so, we need to find remozim. be it more achdus , or what ever sombody thinks it sends a message to him . if its al pi torah then aderaba you have just elevated the kedoshim, and they have served the highest possible purpose.
Let every body become a better human being becouse of this. and frankly its alot easier to contribute time or money, then it is to become a better yid.
lfim tzara agra.
72
Dec 02, 2008 at 08:45 PM Joseph Says:
According to Savage,this evening the murderers were high on cocaine
73
Dec 02, 2008 at 09:15 PM Anonymous Says:
“ It is because the answer to your second question is YES, that I will not be quite and I will not kiss their feet, as long as they are doing things that are THE VERY OPPOSITE of Kovod Hameis.
Was in to add to Kovod Hamiesim that:
1) Pictures were being snapped while they were doing their holy work of evacuating the Kedoshim from the house?
and if the answer to that is yes, did it add to Kovod Hameisim that:
2) A picture was taken of one of the Kedoshim lying in the Seforim room
and if the answer to that is yes, did it add to Kovod Hameisim that:
3) This picture was handled recklessly and was posted on a public website
and if the answer to that is yes, did it add to Kovod Hameisim that:
4) members of ZAKA felt it their duty to report on the condition of the bodies.
The above are not only NOT Kovod Hameis, but it the direct opposite of everything ZAKA THEMSELVES claim their orginization stands for, namely the preservation of Kovod Hameis thru HATZNEI LECHES.
I would just add that there was a goy that managed to get into the house right after the shooting stopped, and he took photographs, some of them of the bodies. He posted a link to those photos on Twitter. He did not include those of the bodies.
He asked those on twitter if he should include the photographs of the bodies. The response was about 50-50. He decided not to show them, he said he felt it just wouldn't be right.
How is it this person had the sensitivity that ZAKA seem to be lacking (in this case, at least)?
I will kiss the feet of ZAKA for all the amazing, holy work they do.
But, if they ABUSE THEIR position, I will stand on the rooftops and shout it out, because 1) It is wrong 2) they are jepordizing the ability to operate the next time (R"L we should never need it) they may be needed. ”
someone respectful has to give them a real speech of what to do and what not to do . . If they dont listen then we must create our own zaka with a new name . The curent zaka is a major money maker and survives on major kovod .
74
Dec 02, 2008 at 09:37 PM r u serious Says:
“ I honestly can not handle any more. I can't read one more story or article.
I think I'm turning everything off for a day.
This is just too much to handle. ”
I agree I am done. I am doing no good for anyone with all this information in head. I am a wreck. I wish I could disconnect the internet from by blackberry.
75
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:57 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why would they bring the child to the funeral? ”
the child was at the memorial service in india. maybe they wanted him to be a part of it. probably noone was thinking clearly. he did not seem to be at the levayah today.
76
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:53 PM Anonymous Says:
“ In my daughter's school here in the US (a litvishe school), they did not mention this tragedy. This is very unfortunate, because It sends a wrong message to our children. ”
in my daughters' bais yaakov in toronto, the oldest 4 grades said tehillim for a hour on thursday, and again on friday. it is not being ignored at all. perhaps your children are young, and the teachers didin't feel it right to discuss it in school. even here, no details were told; they didin't tell them on fri. morn that it was over, R"L, only that "we must daven"
77
Dec 03, 2008 at 02:42 AM Anonymous Says:
“
nebech, nebech. the worse STILL continues to get worse.
Yemach shemom v'zichrum
'mi sheomar l'oilumo dai yomar l'tzuroseinu dai"... ”
please all of us to somthing more then before , another mitsva , hold ur self back from another avaire and become close to hashem , this is the only thing we can take out of this , because all these people are inisint and its all probely from our sinds lets become better
thanks
78
Dec 03, 2008 at 01:35 AM in awe Says:
no doubt that these were 'himelsheh mentchen" How can one go around with a smile like Rivky after losing a young child, then having another sick child, especially from the first ones. plus, this couple was sooo young, where did they get their strength???? unusual people!!! As I hear from first hand guests of their last shabbos, they were out to make you as comfortable as can be, cheerfully etc., no words no words...
79
Dec 03, 2008 at 12:59 AM Anonymous Says:
“ In my daughter's school here in the US (a litvishe school), they did not mention this tragedy. This is very unfortunate, because It sends a wrong message to our children. ”
This is very unfortunate, I heard the same rule was applied in Isreal where nothing was mentioned in the litvushe schools because it involved chabad. I also didn'e see or hear of anyone in the litvishe movement come to the levaya for the two sheluchim. It's a shame that this is what has to bring us together and a bigger shame that it isn't.
80
Dec 03, 2008 at 09:47 AM Anonymous Says:
“ This is very unfortunate, I heard the same rule was applied in Isreal where nothing was mentioned in the litvushe schools because it involved chabad. I also didn'e see or hear of anyone in the litvishe movement come to the levaya for the two sheluchim. It's a shame that this is what has to bring us together and a bigger shame that it isn't. ”
Many schools did not discuss the tragedies with younger children due to fears of nightmares and anxiety etc. I am a high school teacher and it was discussed with Kavod for all. A yid is a yid and these were heilige kedoshim it really makes no difference in their backgrounds, which chasidus, or orthodoxy etc. We who are alive need the achdus that these who are dead have shown. In MUmbai a yid was a yid regardless of dress etc. and unfortunately they were taken becuase of this. Be proud of who you are but stop knocking others since without true Ahavas Yisroel the birth pangs of Mashiach must still continue p.s. if it means anything and it should not we are Yekkes
81
Dec 03, 2008 at 12:29 PM Anonymous Says:
“ She was pregnant with her fourth child, not her second, if you count her child that died in childbirth. She left two survivimg children ”
she had 2 children that werent born well, one passed away at the age of 3 about 1.5 years ago, the other is 3 at the moment in eretz yisroel in the hospital. the third child, moishe'le was b"h born healthy and she was expecting her 4th child whom was killed al kidush hashem
82
Dec 03, 2008 at 12:20 PM chabadnick Says:
hashem yerachem sombody save us from this desaster, and moshiach will come speedly in our time . we will stand up strong and not be scared of these reshoim !
83
Dec 03, 2008 at 03:24 PM J.twersky Says:
A terrible tragedy. A tremendous loss for Klal Yisroel. Hashem took the best for his garden. wonderful,extraordinary couple. always with a smile. Lubavitch the ultimate in Chassidus teaching love for one another & tolerance of fellow Yidden.
They lived in India no questions, no discrimination. Moser Nefesh for all of Klal Yisroel.
No mussar just pure love for everyone. May we all be zoche to greet Moshiach Tzidkenu very shortly. We will miss these outstanding couple.