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Hackensack, NJ - Eating Kosher on the Road on the Mind of Business Travelers |
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Hiroko Masuike for The New York Times Stan Steinreich, founder and chief executive of Steinreich Communications, at his office in Hackensack, N.J. Eating kosher on the road can entail a steady diet of cornflakes and Snickers.
Hackensack, NJ - Stan Steinreich, founder and chief executive of Steinreich Communications, is a lot on the road for business, and he is worried about the ability to follow religious dietary laws while he travels.
Most business travelers worry about rental cars and flight delays. I also worry about the ability to follow religious dietary laws, Stan says.
I'm a practicing observant Jew who follows a kosher lifestyle. And that's usually a private matter and no big deal. Except when I'm meeting myriad clients who are used to doing business over a meal.
Some things are a bit easier on the road, like milk. A well-respected rabbi gave an edict years ago essentially saying that any milk produced in the United States is kosher. That means I try to steer clients to breakfast meetings. You can't go wrong with cornflakes and milk and some freshly squeezed orange juice.
But when it comes to those dinner meetings, all bets are off. I have made an art out of nursing a dry salad for hours. When clients see my spartan fare, some ask me if I'm sick. Others think I'm a vegan. Others, I'm sure, wonder how such a big guy can eat so little.
One thing for certain: When I get back to my hotel, I'm often starved.
I've been known to polish off a pint of kosher Häagen-Dazs or a couple of Snickers bars.
I do try to pack some food for myself on longer trips to more remote locations when I can.
I once represented the government of Guatemala. And I had to go there for a very important meeting. I knew that eating kosher was going to be near impossible. So I brought some vacuum-packed corned beef with me. But by the time I arrived in Guatemala my luggage was sporting a large, ugly, seeping stain.
I was stopped by a Guatemalan customs agent, who wanted to know the source of the stain. I went into my explanation. I lost him once I said kosher.
Eventually, a supervisor came over and let me get through. It was the best corned beef I ever had, by the way.
I'm not alone. There are thousands of business travelers in the same predicament. Fortunately, I've met other business travelers at synagogues and kosher restaurants across the world. It's almost like an Orthodox travel underground. And we'll share stories about the best places to eat, stay and worship across the globe.
But like any other traveler, some of my tales of woe have nothing to do with religious practice. I'm just trying to get from one place to another, with the least amount of hassle. And some dignity.
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Read Comments (73) — Post Yours »
1
Dec 02, 2008 at 10:07 PM Anonymous Says:
You can always buy some lays potato chips you're not gona die. At least you still can get a mitvah out of keeping kosher. The greater the nisoyan the more schar.
2
Dec 02, 2008 at 10:02 PM Anonymous Says:
I didn't know Häagen-Dazs is kosher, where can I get one in Boropark right now?
3
Dec 02, 2008 at 10:02 PM Anonymous Says:
I guess the author doesnt keep Chalov Yisroel, Paas Yisroel or Yoshon! haha. that would be even crazier to do on the road!
4
Dec 02, 2008 at 10:26 PM Anonymous Says:
Kosher Food (Chalav Stam) available all over the world
Pringles Potatoe Chips
Walkers Butter Cookies
M&M with and without peanuts
Godiva Chocolate
This is why weigh 350 lbs
5
Dec 02, 2008 at 10:20 PM Anonymous Says:
In china deenes kosher resturant is the best chinese food you ever tasted ans sushi
6
Dec 02, 2008 at 10:18 PM monseyresident Says:
You can always do what I do, canned tuna, salmon or sardines. Works wonders and atleast its good for ya!
7
Dec 02, 2008 at 10:38 PM chaim Says:
Not to judge you Stan but just wanted to make everyone aware here that eating a salad at a non kosher restaurant is a very bad idea. They are beleive or not far from kosher reason being the BUGS that are in them. These are not DOLE OR BODEK salads and in many cases even in non kosher places are not even rinsed even if they are out of the suppossidly sanitary bagged salads(from non certified co). There are numerous kashrus issues and halacha issues with eating live and dead bugs and you can not eat a salad anywhere ever unless its in a kosher restaurant or in a bag that has kosher certification
8
Dec 02, 2008 at 10:45 PM Anonymous Says:
when I was younger I traveled cross country with 3 friends. We lost 25 pounds each. We had no idea how hard it would be to find a can of kosher tuna in New Mexico or a kosher jar of guefilte fish in Tuscon !! We lived off canned vegetables, fresh fruit and had our first hot meal in LA !! Today, most kosher caterers will vacuum pack meals that will not spoil and travel well for weeks !!
9
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:01 PM yankel Says:
I travel a lot and buy the meal mart meals shelf stable its the best!
10
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:06 PM Anonymous Says:
Who was the ruv that said you could dring any milk in usa? If you think its r moshe look again in egris moshe u will see diffrent
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
11
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:55 PM Anonymous Says:
In china deenes kosher resturant is the best chinese food you ever tasted ans sushi
12
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:49 PM Antelope110 Says:
If you're willing to shop and shlep, you can eat fairly well without gaining 100 pounds. The Meal Mart meals are good and I love powdered milk which I mix with bottled water and refrigerate. Then I can eat it with cereal, or even heat it up in my little electric kettle (another big help) and make hot cereal with instant oatmeal packets. And you can have coffee with milk! Cheese travels pretty well; freeze it and wrap it in foil and plastic before you go, and take some good whole wheat rolls... peanut butter is the traveler's dream... it doesn't spoil. Happy travels!
13
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:45 PM Anonymous Says:
I have done lots of work-related travel to many forsaken small towns in these United States. I can tell you from personal expereince, that any large supermarket in any city and state carries a large amount of OU products like cerals, milk, Orange Juice, cookies, potato chips, pretzles etc... in addition to all the fruits and vegetables you can eat. I say, there is no need to go hungry.
14
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:38 PM Anonymous Says:
I once traveled to niagara via amtrak.I shleped along a suitcase full of food and an icebox full of meat milk and other refrigerated products,only to find out when i got there that they have a kosher pizza shop and a mendy.s take out!
15
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:31 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Who was the ruv that said you could dring any milk in usa? If you think its r moshe look again in egris moshe u will see diffrent
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ”
Maybe it wasnt Rav Moshe ZTZL try not to judge people
16
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:29 PM Anonymous Says:
You can only drink cholov stam when there are no problems generally associated with it (in the particular place) and when no other milk is available. Both are not the case in the US. There is a problem with cows who have surgeries done to their mammary glands, and there is certainly a source of cholov Yisroel in many places.
17
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:28 PM seicheldig geredt Says:
I guess Stan is refering to dining out in non kosher places not to the availability of kosher meals.
Stan, I always do what you just recommended " over a cup of coffee only" it works, coffee is good at all times of the day.
Stan, Vodka on the plane! the best
18
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:22 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You can always buy some lays potato chips you're not gona die. At least you still can get a mitvah out of keeping kosher. The greater the nisoyan the more schar. ”
Clearly..you dont travel!! It is a tremendous nisoyon. sure you can eat potato chips in your room..not at a dinner meeting with a few CEO's and people who are making a decision regarding your parnasah!
19
Dec 02, 2008 at 11:17 PM person Says:
“ Not to judge you Stan but just wanted to make everyone aware here that eating a salad at a non kosher restaurant is a very bad idea. They are beleive or not far from kosher reason being the BUGS that are in them. These are not DOLE OR BODEK salads and in many cases even in non kosher places are not even rinsed even if they are out of the suppossidly sanitary bagged salads(from non certified co). There are numerous kashrus issues and halacha issues with eating live and dead bugs and you can not eat a salad anywhere ever unless its in a kosher restaurant or in a bag that has kosher certification ”
Nothing will happen if he accidentaly eats a bug....god, he's keeping kosher and traveling, give him some credit and not judge!
20
Dec 03, 2008 at 12:20 AM Anonymous Says:
eating a bug is in a diffrent way just as bad as eating TREIF, go as your local orthodox Rov, Again I gave him credit and said im not judging but he should know that eating a salad is a huge no no. Ask anyone in kashrus or a rov that is familiar with these problems
21
Dec 03, 2008 at 12:39 AM raizel Says:
I have traveled alot and always take my electric frying pan, which fits into a suitcase. I ask for a smoking vs non-smoking room. I cook eggs, pasta, veggies and other pareve items. I even bring a Tupperware container and carry it to meetings that take place in restaurants. I give the restaurant business by purchasing drinks, not salads, which are a problem because of the knives on certain sharp foods and because of the bugs. It helps if the room comes with a fridge, but that is not always an option.
22
Dec 03, 2008 at 12:39 AM Kashrus Professional Says:
As someone who has traveled to 46 of the 50 states (HI was one of them!), I have NEVER had a problem finding what to eat. Walk into any supermarket and there will be what to purchase. Granted some may not be cholov yisroel
(all you anti cholov stamm people, please get your hands off the keyboard as you wont change anyone's mind) but there is plenty to eat. The person interviewed makes it sound like its difficult WHICH IT MOST CERTAINLY IS NOT!
23
Dec 03, 2008 at 12:34 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Who was the ruv that said you could dring any milk in usa? If you think its r moshe look again in egris moshe u will see diffrent
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ”
R' Moshe didn't say that all FDA milk is kosher, he did say that all FDA milk counts as Chalav Yisroel [with an appropriate hekhsher]. Part of the result here is that you can go anywhere in America and find kosher food, even if it's not the healthiest stuff like Hershey's candy or Ice Cream (kosher does not equal healthy), it's not treif.
Yoshon (the only Torah prohibition here) is not actually a problem in the USA as, due to significant delays, moving grain from the field to your plate tends to take months (usually well over a year). The likelihood of eating Chodosh is extremely low.
As for Pas Yisroel, many of the kosher foods are P"Y but don't write it on the package (i.e. Kof-K breads) as few people care when the product is Pas Palter anyhow.
24
Dec 03, 2008 at 12:12 AM Am Ho-oretz Says:
Even I know that poor starving business executives like this tragic man can eat apples and bananas when they travel, and avoid the bulging waistlines of his diet of candy and ice cream!
25
Dec 03, 2008 at 12:08 AM Anonymous Says:
la'briut meals are shelf stable and come with a heating mechanism so you don't have any questions about the kashrus of a microwave
26
Dec 03, 2008 at 05:42 AM Anonymous Says:
I travel often and only eat cholov Yisral and never have a problem , when going to Asia I bring some tuna and labriut meals. And domestic travel every store such as shoprite and walamrt carry many items which are kosher. Even frozen items such as fish that just needs to be warmed up in a microwave,,, also I always wear my yamulka and behave like a jew and no one ever questions my eating.
27
Dec 03, 2008 at 05:30 AM Anonymous Says:
You say you eat salad in a none kosher restaurant? OK, so the salad may not be traif, but what about the dish the salad was served in? Was it toivled? Who knows what else was in that plate? It's not so simple.
28
Dec 03, 2008 at 05:28 AM The Shadow Says:
“ eating a bug is in a diffrent way just as bad as eating TREIF, go as your local orthodox Rov, Again I gave him credit and said im not judging but he should know that eating a salad is a huge no no. Ask anyone in kashrus or a rov that is familiar with these problems ”
Actually, it's not "just as bad" as eating treif - it's WORSE. Eating a bug can result in a minimum of four laav'im in one shot, maybe more.
29
Dec 03, 2008 at 03:07 AM Anonymous Says:
I am reading this from my hotel room in Cologne,Germany as I eat my breakfast of Cheerios (usually I make Ziplocks, one for each day, this trip bought the single serve cups) and coffee made with a European emerser and a metal travel cup (good for negel vasser also). Lunch today will be Kedem whole wheat crackers and a can of Dagim pop-top tuna (I may drop into a local supermarket to buy some fruit and water, but I don't want to spend a penny more than I need to in Germany.) It is definately a shlep to bring along your own food, but it can be done and you can eat without any kulos.
30
Dec 03, 2008 at 02:34 AM traveler Says:
everywhere in the world there is this great great pepole there in the chabad houses serving kosher food for any guests with no charge
31
Dec 03, 2008 at 07:10 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You say you eat salad in a none kosher restaurant? OK, so the salad may not be traif, but what about the dish the salad was served in? Was it toivled? Who knows what else was in that plate? It's not so simple. ”
Though there are issues involved in eating a dry salad in a Treif restaurant, the things you mention are not among them. The dish is cold, so the fact that it may have been used for Treif is not a problem. The fact that the dish is not Toiveled is also not an issue, since the plate is owned by the (non-Jewish) owner of the restaurant, so there is no chiyuv for it to be toiveled.
32
Dec 03, 2008 at 07:09 AM chaim perachia Says:
All of you are missing his main point. His biggest problem, which I also run into constantly as a businessman, is that the people he deals with WANT TO GO TO RESTAURANTS! He's right that the easiest type of meal to share with a customer is breakfast, but I do agree with some of the comments posted that unfortunately eating a salad from a non-kosher place is not as simple as businessmen usually think. The OU put out a guide to washing vegetables a couple years ago which is excellent, and ALL yidden should read it. (No, I don't work for the OU) Trust me - if you thought it was safe to eat salad in a treife restaurant, you'll never think so again after reading the guide. My recommendation, which I do all the time when I have to go to treife restaurants, is to order a fruit/vegetable platter. Once again, the OU's guide tells you which fruits and vegetables do not require any washing. If there isn't a nice kosher place around, I call the restaurant ahead of time when the customer isn't around to make sure they can put together a fruit/vegetable platter with the appropriate fruits & veggies. Then when we sit down at the table and start looking at the menu, I tell them in an off-hand way that I'm just going to order some fruit and vegetables because I keep kosher. I've never had any problem with telling the customer I keep kosher. Usually they are a little interested and ask a few questions about it, and I usually say something like "it's ok anyway, because I just had something to eat before we got here so I'm not hungry anyway." Even though that's not always the case, and I'm really jealous that they are eating a gorgeous looking steak, it makes them not feel guilty. I have no comments on the milk issue that people are talking about because it's an old issue and there's nothing new to add to the debate that hasn't already been said somewhere in other places. My suggestion there is that you talk to your rov if you have any questions. Hatzlocha! If you have any questions, you can contact me at publicrelations@fruitandvegetablelobbiest.com (just kidding)
33
Dec 03, 2008 at 07:40 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Kosher Food (Chalav Stam) available all over the world
Pringles Potatoe Chips
Walkers Butter Cookies
M&M with and without peanuts
Godiva Chocolate
This is why weigh 350 lbs ”
YOU COULDN'T BE MORE WRONG!!! I personally spoke with one of the head rabbonim of the ou (which is the hechsher on pringles) regarding pringles served on an international flight. He informed me that i can only eat it IF it has the ou symbol on the can. If not, there can be multiple problems with it- including actual tarfus!
While i'm sure you have only good intentions, in the future, please try to be more careful before posting such a broad and baseless statement- it can cause people to be michshol.
34
Dec 03, 2008 at 07:45 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Not to judge you Stan but just wanted to make everyone aware here that eating a salad at a non kosher restaurant is a very bad idea. They are beleive or not far from kosher reason being the BUGS that are in them. These are not DOLE OR BODEK salads and in many cases even in non kosher places are not even rinsed even if they are out of the suppossidly sanitary bagged salads(from non certified co). There are numerous kashrus issues and halacha issues with eating live and dead bugs and you can not eat a salad anywhere ever unless its in a kosher restaurant or in a bag that has kosher certification ”
You just judged him. He never said the source of the salad, but you assumed the worst.
What happened to your dan l'kaf z'chus? You must be a Rubashkin supporter - always assuming what happened then giving wrong mussar.
35
Dec 03, 2008 at 07:59 AM murray Says:
“ Kosher Food (Chalav Stam) available all over the world
Pringles Potatoe Chips
Walkers Butter Cookies
M&M with and without peanuts
Godiva Chocolate
This is why weigh 350 lbs ”
You should have printed something more sensible. The "diet" you posted would not even be acceptable halachically-its a clear danger to health-worse than cigarettes. I bet I have lived in more "remote" places than you, and have never had a kashrus problem or finding all kosher essentials in supermarkets, and I am Not talking about dubious brands like "Hebrew National". Granted we have had to eat peanut butter and tuna fish, Not brisket, but it is certainly survivable. I found kosher products in a super-market called "Piggly-Wiggly", in Alamogordo, New Mexico, give me a break.
36
Dec 03, 2008 at 08:05 AM Anonymous Says:
I was recently in Taiwan and found you can eat at many strict Buddist eateries. They are vegan and serve no fish or eggs. The food is very good.
37
Dec 03, 2008 at 08:04 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You say you eat salad in a none kosher restaurant? OK, so the salad may not be traif, but what about the dish the salad was served in? Was it toivled? Who knows what else was in that plate? It's not so simple. ”
Goyim own the dishes - don't need tevila
38
Dec 03, 2008 at 08:26 AM Aron Says:
“ You just judged him. He never said the source of the salad, but you assumed the worst.
What happened to your dan l'kaf z'chus? You must be a Rubashkin supporter - always assuming what happened then giving wrong mussar. ”
The person interviewed DID allude to the source of the salad. He said "dry salad" at a "dinner meeting" (i.e. restaurant). If he brought his own salad (unlikely) he would have said so, and then it wouldn't have to be dry.
p.s. what does Rubashkin have to do with this? Is it just reflexive bashing on your part?
39
Dec 03, 2008 at 08:27 AM murray Says:
“ I was recently in Taiwan and found you can eat at many strict Buddist eateries. They are vegan and serve no fish or eggs. The food is very good. ”
I agree with you, but be aware that some posters here will give you 100 reasons why you CAN"T be eating there.
40
Dec 03, 2008 at 08:41 AM Says:
When I travel I take La Briut meals. They have microwavable (double wrapped) and those that you can heat with a chemical which is inside. Just don't heat it up in the airport
41
Dec 03, 2008 at 09:03 AM Anonymous Says:
MY wife got up 3 in the morning prepeard salad for my trip to atlanta and security threw it in the garbage because it had the liquid of the vegetables . the tuna she finaly let me take through security its not that easy this days its pretty tough
42
Dec 03, 2008 at 09:30 AM Another Traveler Says:
Kashrus Professional- I'm curious, what are the 4 states you haven't been to? (My guesses: Wyoming, Utah, South Dakota and Montana)
43
Dec 03, 2008 at 09:37 AM yankl Says:
“ R' Moshe didn't say that all FDA milk is kosher, he did say that all FDA milk counts as Chalav Yisroel [with an appropriate hekhsher]. Part of the result here is that you can go anywhere in America and find kosher food, even if it's not the healthiest stuff like Hershey's candy or Ice Cream (kosher does not equal healthy), it's not treif.
Yoshon (the only Torah prohibition here) is not actually a problem in the USA as, due to significant delays, moving grain from the field to your plate tends to take months (usually well over a year). The likelihood of eating Chodosh is extremely low.
As for Pas Yisroel, many of the kosher foods are P"Y but don't write it on the package (i.e. Kof-K breads) as few people care when the product is Pas Palter anyhow. ”
To 23:
You don't know what you are talking about!
44
Dec 03, 2008 at 09:47 AM Anonymous Says:
I travel very often to a country that has no kosher food available. It is very simple lately to get by. there is in the past few years the Meal mart food that doesn´t need to be refrigerated and is double wrapped and can be microwaved. They have the most delicious food their chicken soup is as good as any home made the meals are very compact and really very filling (I'm not a rep for them, but I appreciate the product very much) Tuv Taam also has a full line of excellent dishes but they're frozen so you need a freezer when you arrive. There are also traditional soups and similar cup dishes that you only need to add some hot water. Tuna's now come with flavor and vegetables. Bodek now has the vegetable bag that is in 4 packets that last quite a while if you can get a fridge when you arrive. You can also get the milk envelopes that are Cholov Yis you add some to a bottle of bottled water and is best if you let it stand overnight I just pour the powder directly to a coffee and it's fine. also, Folger has the packets of coffee bags that taste pretty well. for breakfast I have the packets of oatmeal that come with a taste added, they even have it suger free in maple flavor. Rubashkin (hopefully they'l reopen) also had salami vacum packed that didn't require refrigeration. Also, for those that have access to Israel, ask somone to bring you the small containers of milk that don't need refrigeration (not for carry on) There are many products now that substitute bread, Shibolim have excellent whole wheat crackers that are very compact as well as many other companies. All of the above are compact and can fit into a carry on. I travel almost weekly and never went hungry B¨H. If you need any more suggestions feel free to e mail me at rosenb7243@aol.com
45
Dec 03, 2008 at 10:16 AM Alex Says:
What is the newsworthiness of this story? So some fat Snickers and ice-cream binging businessman can't have his kugel while travelling for business? Who cares?
46
Dec 03, 2008 at 10:11 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Who was the ruv that said you could dring any milk in usa? If you think its r moshe look again in egris moshe u will see diffrent
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ”
1) Rav Moshe did pasken that way
2) He was not the first - Many, including Rav Heinken paskened that way long before Rav Moshe did so
3) People who came here after the war have a harder time with this than those of us who are third, fourth and fifth generation American
47
Dec 03, 2008 at 10:34 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You can only drink cholov stam when there are no problems generally associated with it (in the particular place) and when no other milk is available. Both are not the case in the US. There is a problem with cows who have surgeries done to their mammary glands, and there is certainly a source of cholov Yisroel in many places. ”
Any problem with the milk from such cows is botel and cholov stam is not only mutar where cholov yisroel is unavailable. There is no way a person can stretch the I.M. to mean that.
48
Dec 03, 2008 at 10:33 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You can always do what I do, canned tuna, salmon or sardines. Works wonders and atleast its good for ya! ”
Even better that canned tuna is that tuna in the sealed packs that lay flat. Also, think about protein bars (there are some that are pareve that are sold in kosher supermarkets) dried edamame or soy beans, craisins and other dried fruits and nuts. When I go for a business trip, I always ask fro a fridge for my room, and take string cheese - that usually lasts even for a long flight if it's packed in your luggage. You don't have to depend on junk food - you can eat healthy on the road.
49
Dec 03, 2008 at 10:31 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Who was the ruv that said you could dring any milk in usa? If you think its r moshe look again in egris moshe u will see diffrent
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ”
If you think it wasn't rav moshe ztz"l look in fridges of his closest talmidim.
50
Dec 03, 2008 at 10:35 AM Anonymous Says:
“ eating a bug is in a diffrent way just as bad as eating TREIF, go as your local orthodox Rov, Again I gave him credit and said im not judging but he should know that eating a salad is a huge no no. Ask anyone in kashrus or a rov that is familiar with these problems ”
Actually, eating a bug involves six isurin whereas most tarfus involves only one.
51
Dec 03, 2008 at 10:56 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I was recently in Taiwan and found you can eat at many strict Buddist eateries. They are vegan and serve no fish or eggs. The food is very good. ”
ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.
Tolo'im, bishul akum, cooking wine, oils (vegans are not makpid to the extent that halachah is makpid).
52
Dec 03, 2008 at 10:53 AM Anonymous Says:
“ YOU COULDN'T BE MORE WRONG!!! I personally spoke with one of the head rabbonim of the ou (which is the hechsher on pringles) regarding pringles served on an international flight. He informed me that i can only eat it IF it has the ou symbol on the can. If not, there can be multiple problems with it- including actual tarfus!
While i'm sure you have only good intentions, in the future, please try to be more careful before posting such a broad and baseless statement- it can cause people to be michshol. ”
Same problem with Snapple. Many flavors have no hechsher. Check the bottle.
Ingeneral one cannot go by the brand. If the company is paying for hashgochah, believe me they are putting somewhere on the label.
53
Dec 03, 2008 at 10:50 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You say you eat salad in a none kosher restaurant? OK, so the salad may not be traif, but what about the dish the salad was served in? Was it toivled? Who knows what else was in that plate? It's not so simple. ”
Goyim are not nitztaveh on tevilas keilim, stam keilim of an akum are not ben yomo, the dish was washed with soap that was pogaim anything left from the last meal, which would be mevutal b'rov anyway, and if you ordered a garden salad anything else in it would likly be a nosain ta'am lifgam.
THE REAL PROBLEM WITH SALAD IN A TREIF RESTAURANT IS TOLO'IM AND THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THAT PROBLEM. There are types of 'just lettuce' that most hashgachos today will not allow under any circumstances no matter who checked them and cleaned them.
54
Dec 03, 2008 at 10:43 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Even I know that poor starving business executives like this tragic man can eat apples and bananas when they travel, and avoid the bulging waistlines of his diet of candy and ice cream! ”
You've obviously haven't done much traveling on a diet of fruit and water (or other liquids).
I was also this smart until I learned the hard way. vehamavin yovin.
55
Dec 03, 2008 at 10:42 AM Anonymous Says:
“ R' Moshe didn't say that all FDA milk is kosher, he did say that all FDA milk counts as Chalav Yisroel [with an appropriate hekhsher]. Part of the result here is that you can go anywhere in America and find kosher food, even if it's not the healthiest stuff like Hershey's candy or Ice Cream (kosher does not equal healthy), it's not treif.
Yoshon (the only Torah prohibition here) is not actually a problem in the USA as, due to significant delays, moving grain from the field to your plate tends to take months (usually well over a year). The likelihood of eating Chodosh is extremely low.
As for Pas Yisroel, many of the kosher foods are P"Y but don't write it on the package (i.e. Kof-K breads) as few people care when the product is Pas Palter anyhow. ”
Wow! So much misinformation in one post!
1) Rav Moshe does not write that cholov 'HaCompanies' needs a hechsher
2)Yoshon has been an issue in America since the Nixon administration
3) The liklyhood of pasta being chadosh during most of the winter months can be very high. This year the possibility of chadosh started before yomim tovim
4) Not only aren't most kosher baked goods that are not marked pas yisroel not pas yisroel, many items marked pas yisroel under several major hashgachos are also not pas yisroel according to many shitos
56
Dec 03, 2008 at 11:09 AM Anonymous Says:
The infested salad may be more problomatic than the non-kosher items.
The milk & dairy items are not permitted according to Reb Moshe OB"M, as now it is TREIF. The only one that still is not convinced yet that it's all TREIF is Rav Belsky.
57
Dec 03, 2008 at 11:08 AM Anonymous Says:
JUST CONTACT THE LOCAL CHABAD AND THEY'LL HELP!!!
58
Dec 03, 2008 at 10:59 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Even better that canned tuna is that tuna in the sealed packs that lay flat. Also, think about protein bars (there are some that are pareve that are sold in kosher supermarkets) dried edamame or soy beans, craisins and other dried fruits and nuts. When I go for a business trip, I always ask fro a fridge for my room, and take string cheese - that usually lasts even for a long flight if it's packed in your luggage. You don't have to depend on junk food - you can eat healthy on the road. ”
American 'cheese' can last out in room temprature for days if not weeks. (Oil does not need to be kept cold..)Seperate wrapped slices are best for this.
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Dec 03, 2008 at 11:17 AM Anonymous Says:
“ The infested salad may be more problomatic than the non-kosher items.
The milk & dairy items are not permitted according to Reb Moshe OB"M, as now it is TREIF. The only one that still is not convinced yet that it's all TREIF is Rav Belsky. ”
If so, why don't any of Rav Moshe ZTZ"L know about it???
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Dec 03, 2008 at 11:32 AM Anonymous Says:
“ 1) Rav Moshe did pasken that way
2) He was not the first - Many, including Rav Heinken paskened that way long before Rav Moshe did so
3) People who came here after the war have a harder time with this than those of us who are third, fourth and fifth generation American ”
taths why he [asken tat way, but in 2008 dont be lazy take some milk with you
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Dec 03, 2008 at 11:59 AM Anonymous Says:
“ taths why he [asken tat way, but in 2008 dont be lazy take some milk with you ”
You mean he paskened this way but for a reason other than halachah???
In other words, you seem to be saying that it is assur but he paskened mutar. Is that what you meant?
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Dec 03, 2008 at 12:29 PM Anonymous Says:
Rav Moshe Feinstein's heter for those who follow it applies only where the government supervises milk. It wouldn't apply in Guatemala. Also, we have seen how some companies have gotten away with things before being caught by the government-so do you really think you can rely on the government for supervising milk? Also, not all the vitamins added to unsupervised milk may be kosher.
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Dec 03, 2008 at 12:52 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Wow! So much misinformation in one post!
1) Rav Moshe does not write that cholov 'HaCompanies' needs a hechsher
2)Yoshon has been an issue in America since the Nixon administration
3) The liklyhood of pasta being chadosh during most of the winter months can be very high. This year the possibility of chadosh started before yomim tovim
4) Not only aren't most kosher baked goods that are not marked pas yisroel not pas yisroel, many items marked pas yisroel under several major hashgachos are also not pas yisroel according to many shitos ”
1, I didn't say he did. It's in brackets (something in brackets indicates the original author didn't say it) because the facts are that while all FDA milk qualifies for R' Moshe's Kula, the issue of treif cows due to a particular surgical procedure means that we still need a hekhsher to determine whether those treif cows were removed. Consider it a co-opting of the original kula, but it's a fact.
2. A small amount of Chodosh has been allowed to penetrate the markets recently, but majority is still the yoshon (because it's much more practical except for periods with a shortage of grain).
3. That's a specific item, but you can check the production date if you're not relying on any heters for it.
4. Well now you're getting into an issue of whether you accept Rav X and his standards for what makes Pas Yisroel. I simply note that many kosher breads do not write it on the package, but several times they are because they are doing something at the bakery themselves (even if you don't rely on their heter for their procedure).
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Dec 03, 2008 at 12:55 PM Anonymous Says:
First, the author stated that he "nursed a dry salad", not actually eating it. you can ask for whole tomatoes, celery stalks, etc.
Second, there are many ways to take kosher f ood on trips. However, with the weight limitations on luggage it has become more difficult.
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Dec 03, 2008 at 01:27 PM Anonymous Says:
MY wife got up 3 in the morning prepeard salad for my trip to atlanta and security threw it in the garbage because it had the liquid of the vegetables . the tuna she finaly let me take through security its not that easy this days its pretty tough
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Dec 03, 2008 at 01:39 PM Jewish mother Says:
I have traveled extensively on business all over north america. I do not lose weight (although I would like to).
I take a portable burner in my bag and a pot and spoon (I stuff these with toiletries). For extended trips I take a portable roaster too. These fit into my bag, stuffed with clothing. I buy fish, canned salmon, eggs, rice, veggies, etc everywhere I go. Most places I travel I also find kosher chicken because many non Jews eat it too.
I eat a big breakfast of eggs before I go out with oatmeal. For lunch I have canned salmon, olive oil, lemon, avocado and tomatoes and cold oatmeal in a gladware (which I eat at home everyday too)
For dinner I eat a big meal of salmon or chicken (when I find it which is usually) and rice cooked together with canned seasoned tomatoes. If I am going to be in a city for a few days, I can cook ahead also.
When I was lunching with clients, I always ordered an individual salmon or tuna with tomatoes, avocadoes, olives, olive oil and a wedge of lemon. It is not hard to "be on a diet" these days. Unfortunately, I never lost weight on this "diet".
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Dec 03, 2008 at 07:43 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Who was the ruv that said you could dring any milk in usa? If you think its r moshe look again in egris moshe u will see diffrent
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ”
Yes, it was R Moshe, and yes, he did say exactly that. According to R Moshe, all packaged milk produced by commercial dairies in America has the status of cholov yisroel. The only cholov akum is if you visit a farm and buy direct from the farmer.
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Dec 03, 2008 at 07:40 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Kosher Food (Chalav Stam) available all over the world
Pringles Potatoe Chips
Walkers Butter Cookies
M&M with and without peanuts
Godiva Chocolate
This is why weigh 350 lbs ”
Pringles is not kosher in most of the world.
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Dec 03, 2008 at 07:55 PM Milhouse Says:
“ I was recently in Taiwan and found you can eat at many strict Buddist eateries. They are vegan and serve no fish or eggs. The food is very good. ”
Bishul akum.
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Dec 03, 2008 at 07:52 PM Milhouse Says:
“ You say you eat salad in a none kosher restaurant? OK, so the salad may not be traif, but what about the dish the salad was served in? Was it toivled? Who knows what else was in that plate? It's not so simple. ”
Kelim that belong to a goy don't have to be tovelled. And the plate is clean and cold, so it doesn't matter what was on it before. You can avoid onions and other vegetables that count as charif. The only real problem with a dry salad is bugs; but that's not really such a problem with iceberg lettuce or red cabbage, that have been washed.
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Dec 03, 2008 at 09:01 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Kelim that belong to a goy don't have to be tovelled. And the plate is clean and cold, so it doesn't matter what was on it before. You can avoid onions and other vegetables that count as charif. The only real problem with a dry salad is bugs; but that's not really such a problem with iceberg lettuce or red cabbage, that have been washed. ”
Perhaps, and only perhaps, your arguement that red cabbage and iceberg lettuce that have been washed are less of a problem holds some water here in the States. Perhaps, but probably not.
Travel to third-world countries and forget it.
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Dec 03, 2008 at 10:29 PM Indy Says:
Having spent 3 months backpacking through 9 different African countries, I can tell you that finding kosher food was NEVER once a problem for me. Wanting to actually eat what I found however was a completely different story.
However life is about choice and compromise. I value kasharus and therefore CHOOSE to be limited to certain raw fruit, vegetables and fish, which are universally kosher, in exchange for being able to travel off the beaten track away from civilization without having to lug suitcases of food wherever I go.
In regard to the business world, it comes down to CHOOSING to care enough to take whatever proactive steps necessary to make it work. Whether it’s calling the restaurant ahead of time to have something specially prepared or to excusing yourself for a bathroom break and instead going into the kitchen to check your own salad for bugs and clean the knives to cut the vegetables. At the very least, if you know you’re going to spend the next few hours salivating over everyone else’s meal as you’re stuck eating that cantaloupe, eat before hand.
Oh by the way, most vitamin stores carry a slew of kosher protein powder shakes where you merely add water/milk and it’s a meal in it of itself. Nobody is limited to junk food – it all goes back to the whole concept of taking responsibility and owning up to our OWN CHOICES.
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Dec 04, 2008 at 12:35 PM Aryeh Says:
I have on many occasions declined to meet clients in such places and have never seen a loss because of it. Most clients will do an in-office meeting with catering, and most restaurants that they want to eat in will cater.
1. Send your food ahead of you via FedEx. You can even pack it with dry ice, your hotel will take care of it for you.
2. UHT Milk does not need refrigeration, although Chalav Yisrael is unobtainable outside of Israel.
3. Aged Cholov Yisrael cheddar from the UK does not require refrigeration, nor does any wax covered Edam or Gouda.
4. Disposable aluminum pie tins either packed or purchased and washed and your in-room coffee maker can couple to make a quick hot meal in a pinch. or...
5. A disposable chafing frame, aluminum pans and a can of Sterno can be carefully used in any hotel room, each can burns for about 2 - 3 hours.
6. You can bring a small electric chulent pot in your luggage as well.
7. Dried salami travels well, and is great when reconstituted in hot water or chulent.