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Jerusalem - Haredim Outraged at Egged, Plan Alternative Kosher Bus Line to Western Wall

Published on: December 3, 2008 08:25 AM
By: Ynet
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Jerusalem - The leaders of the Haredi Community, have called on their public to donate money for the establishment of an alternative, kosher bus service to the Western Wall.

The community is outraged by the Egged bus company’s refusal to introduce a service that institutes separation between men and women.

A notice published in the congregation’s newspaper declared that Egged was “systematically trampling the spirit and holiness of the haredi public by forcing on it mixed journeys of promiscuity every day.” It further stated that every attempt by rabbis to negotiate a separate bus line with Egged had been rejected.

“Egged’s transportation of promiscuity is currently the number one enemy of haredi Judaism, and has already claimed many victims,” the ad continued.

According to the members of the “Mehadrin Committee” which issued the notice, experience has shown that the establishment of independent services in the past convinced Egged to operate similar services under the same terms.

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Reportedly, a large sum of money has already been contributed by a Jewish American businessman who seeks to remain anonymous, but another $100,000 were still needed.

“We will soon begin operating an alternative service to line 2, which carries 20,000 people every day,” the rabbis stated.

Notably, Egged currently operates several “kosher” bus lines for the haredi community, but most of the ultra-Orthodox public does not approve of the service and it has not caught on.

 



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Read Comments (72)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Dec 03, 2008 at 08:39 AM Anonymous Says:

Anyone who gives money for this is crazy. There are people hungrey in Yerushalaim and this is what they waste their money on!

2

 Dec 03, 2008 at 08:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Perhaps the charidis should ask the taliban for suggestions on how to keep the sexes seperate as they aren't that far apart in thinking

3

 Dec 03, 2008 at 08:45 AM chaim Says:

Very good

4

 Dec 03, 2008 at 08:44 AM Anonymous Says:

I think we should have seperate communities for men and women. I can not stand the sight of women walking down the street.

5

 Dec 03, 2008 at 08:51 AM proud of religion. Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Anyone who gives money for this is crazy. There are people hungrey in Yerushalaim and this is what they waste their money on!

Shame on you!! Maybe you should sell your religion for a few dollars! Every single Rabbi in israel claimed that the bus #2 bombing was connected with the terrible Chilul Hatznius on these buses! Its a matter of saving lives!

6

 Dec 03, 2008 at 08:54 AM Chusbus Says:

These are pious men. Show them the respect they deserve.

7

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:00 AM Pinchos Says:

Wow, the "Leaders of the Chareidi Community" I'd love to know who they are.

Separate bussing is a nice thing, but the majority of the Charaidi people dont even use the ones that already exist. Egged knows that the charaidim are the majority, by far, that use the #1 & #2 busses and it is a simple buissness decision not to make mehadrin lines.

8

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:05 AM DerNister Says:

I mknow that somehwere in Israel, Chilonim are thanking G-d for this. They are as repulsed by Chareidim as the Chareidim are by them. We've managed to destroy and uproot the "eida achat" the Torah envisioned for us.

9

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:05 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
proud of religion. Says:

Shame on you!! Maybe you should sell your religion for a few dollars! Every single Rabbi in israel claimed that the bus #2 bombing was connected with the terrible Chilul Hatznius on these buses! Its a matter of saving lives!

Then every single Rabbi is wrong. Try thinking for yourself sometimes, its very healthy.

10

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:16 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Anyone who gives money for this is crazy. There are people hungrey in Yerushalaim and this is what they waste their money on!

if anything you are the one who is crazy and you are a big Bal Tuvah

11

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:14 AM Big Masmid Says:

It's about time and just in time for the eminent arrival of Moshiach in order to have Jews going to the Kosel with Kedusha and Taharah. I support this idea 100%.... this will hopefully pave the way for our Tefilos to go up directly to heaven clean and pure.

12

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:14 AM Anonymous Says:

No one is stopping anyone from making their own bus line. However do not impose your religous convictions upon others. Is a family not allowed to go to the Kosel together?????

13

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:11 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
proud of religion. Says:

Shame on you!! Maybe you should sell your religion for a few dollars! Every single Rabbi in israel claimed that the bus #2 bombing was connected with the terrible Chilul Hatznius on these buses! Its a matter of saving lives!

How do they know? (And I am sure not
"every" rabbi says something this silly.)
Bad things happen to good people.
That is what we learn from Mumbai.
Give your money for a bus and not for food.

14

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:11 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
proud of religion. Says:

Shame on you!! Maybe you should sell your religion for a few dollars! Every single Rabbi in israel claimed that the bus #2 bombing was connected with the terrible Chilul Hatznius on these buses! Its a matter of saving lives!

Every single rabbi knows this reason for every single bus bombing. yet every single rabbi is clueless as what to do with the clergy molestation issue? Maybe evry single person like you can buy from me every single bridge that spans the east river?

15

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:24 AM Shteig Says:

Reply to #5  
proud of religion. Says:

Shame on you!! Maybe you should sell your religion for a few dollars! Every single Rabbi in israel claimed that the bus #2 bombing was connected with the terrible Chilul Hatznius on these buses! Its a matter of saving lives!

I certainly was not EVERY rabbi. Plus I would love to know how they know the intent of Hashem.

16

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:42 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

Then every single Rabbi is wrong. Try thinking for yourself sometimes, its very healthy.

SHAME ON YOU HOW CAN YOU TALK LIKE THIS DO YOU THINK WHAT CBS 2 SAID HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS GET A LIFE AND IVE LIKE A REAL JEW!!! YOU SOUND LIKE YOU WANNA BE AN ASSIMILATED JEW RACHMANA LETZLON

17

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:40 AM DizzyIzzy Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

if anything you are the one who is crazy and you are a big Bal Tuvah

What the heck is a "Bal Tuvah?"

18

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:39 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Anyone who gives money for this is crazy. There are people hungrey in Yerushalaim and this is what they waste their money on!

you are the one who is.... I wonder if you know what one should be careful watching their eyes not to look at .......

19

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:38 AM DizzyIzzy Says:

Reply to #5  
proud of religion. Says:

Shame on you!! Maybe you should sell your religion for a few dollars! Every single Rabbi in israel claimed that the bus #2 bombing was connected with the terrible Chilul Hatznius on these buses! Its a matter of saving lives!

EVERY single rabbi? Oh please.

Selling religion for a few dollars! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. What would you say to the chareidi schnorrers who come around begging from anyone with a penny to give, to support the shiftless masses sitting in "yeshiva?"

Saving lives? What tripe. What I'd like to know is how much of the $14,000,000 chareidi bailout will be going to stupidity like these kosher bus lines.

None of this ever happened in Poland because there was no one with deep enough pockets to bankroll it. Living this lunatic chareidi lifestyle is an unaffordable luxury!!!!

20

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:38 AM Anonymous Says:

"Egged's transportation of promiscuity is currently the number one enemy of haredi Judaism, and has already claimed many victims" Are Charedim really that sex crazed that a bus ride will lead them to promiscuity? Anybody who donates to this should be institutionilized. Any Rabbi that supports this, should be stripped of his smicha.

21

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:35 AM FVNMS Says:

My dear beloved brothers in Yerushalayim:

Thank you. You are providing the biggest toi'eles for klal yisroel. Very soon, anti-semitism will be obsolete. Why? Simple. There won't be who to hate. Apparently, we are slowly converting to Islam.

22

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:33 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
proud of religion. Says:

Shame on you!! Maybe you should sell your religion for a few dollars! Every single Rabbi in israel claimed that the bus #2 bombing was connected with the terrible Chilul Hatznius on these buses! Its a matter of saving lives!

The rabbis I spoke told me that the reason for the bus bombing is because many charedim miss zman krias shma and zman tefilla. and waste time in the coofee room

23

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:51 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
Chusbus Says:

These are pious men. Show them the respect they deserve.

if they are so pious then they would not force thier chumras on other people . if they want mehadrin they should hire a private cab.

24

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:50 AM Dag Says:

Who on earth are the "Mehadrin Committee?" Who appointed them?

25

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:48 AM disgusted Says:

oh please! get a life already!! first Lipa, then all concerts. tznius goon squads. separate buses, separate shopping hours & soon we'll be having separate yichud rooms!

26

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:46 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
Big Masmid Says:

It's about time and just in time for the eminent arrival of Moshiach in order to have Jews going to the Kosel with Kedusha and Taharah. I support this idea 100%.... this will hopefully pave the way for our Tefilos to go up directly to heaven clean and pure.

Yep, and I can't wait for Tu'Bav, by favorite yom tov. According to Navi, women would dance, men would watch and pick out their wives. Maybe this means no more mechtza's at weddings?

27

 Dec 03, 2008 at 10:07 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
DizzyIzzy Says:

EVERY single rabbi? Oh please.

Selling religion for a few dollars! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. What would you say to the chareidi schnorrers who come around begging from anyone with a penny to give, to support the shiftless masses sitting in "yeshiva?"

Saving lives? What tripe. What I'd like to know is how much of the $14,000,000 chareidi bailout will be going to stupidity like these kosher bus lines.

None of this ever happened in Poland because there was no one with deep enough pockets to bankroll it. Living this lunatic chareidi lifestyle is an unaffordable luxury!!!!

IF YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR LIFE THEN JUST LIVE IT AND LET OTHERS LIVE THERE LIFE PEACEFULLY

28

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:59 AM abraham Says:

the yerushulaim leidegayers wich have too much time on there hands, are allways busy with other peoples znius. it was good for 80 years like this it should continue .R yosef chaim sonenfeld ZTL was ruv in yerushulaim and the buses was like this, a couple of fanatics come up with an idea and they think they are going to run the city and israel enough with these meshugoim there are people in israel who dont have bread and parnossa to give money for this ??? this is not tzedaka
its achzurias families father mother and children cant go together this fanatics forgot the posuk wich MOSHE RABBEINU SAID BINURENU UBISKAINEINU BBUNEINU UBENOISWNE TOGETHER WHEN FAMILIES GO TOGHETER THATS WHEN KI CHAG HASHEM LUNI

29

 Dec 03, 2008 at 09:59 AM Anonymous Says:

I dont get it! Im around woman all my life never even once have I noiticed anyone of them bite!

The reason they are so scared of ladies is because "Zie Liggen In Taavois" RCHM"L. They are such great Baalie Taaveh that even the sight of a Tzniessdikeh Erlicher Frau causes them to lose control!

I dont see Erlichkiet in this, all I see is weakness as Yidden and weakness as human beings as a whole!

Let them take along a Sefer on the bus for a change and not be busy with all of thier surroundings, come on the train here in NY every day and you will see hundreds of Yingerliet sitting all around women and they r deeply engrossed in Limud Hatohreh! I think that is much more in line with the Rutzoin Hashem!

30

 Dec 03, 2008 at 10:13 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
proud of religion. Says:

Shame on you!! Maybe you should sell your religion for a few dollars! Every single Rabbi in israel claimed that the bus #2 bombing was connected with the terrible Chilul Hatznius on these buses! Its a matter of saving lives!

I find it hard to believe that every rabbi in eretz yisroel agreed on anything.

31

 Dec 03, 2008 at 10:12 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

I think we should have seperate communities for men and women. I can not stand the sight of women walking down the street.

Actually, the chovos halevavos mentions such a communtity in sha'ar habitachon, but not for reasons of tzni'us.

32

 Dec 03, 2008 at 10:29 AM Anonymous Says:

For those inclined (and able) to learn a little, see the Igros Moshe, E"H, Chelek Bais, Siman Yud Daled. In particular, see the second to last paragraph in which he disscusses men who can't travel on a subway without hirhurim and why they have this problem. D.V.K.

33

 Dec 03, 2008 at 10:39 AM merkin Says:

The severe separation of men and woman is not normal and was not practiced by our forefathers, not in europe and not before. This is a modern invention. This is extremism. the word "promiscuous" does not and has never meant riding on a bus without a mechitzah.

34

 Dec 03, 2008 at 10:38 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Anyone who gives money for this is crazy. There are people hungrey in Yerushalaim and this is what they waste their money on!

This is whats important to them - more than food. Dont be disgusting and intolerant.

35

 Dec 03, 2008 at 10:54 AM Anonymous Says:

"Egged's transportation of promiscuity is currently the number one enemy of haredi Judaism, and has already claimed many victims,"

Sheesh. And I was spending all this time worrying about terrorism and the economy when all along the biggest threat facing our community is Egged. My brothers it is time to rise up and defend your families. Let us not waste our precious funds and resources on petty issues such as supporting yeshivas and other charitable causes when we can devote those resources to the mother of all causes - the new Mehadrin bus line. The bus line will be under hashgacha temidis of the Potzer Rebbe, Rav Toit Meshige.

Seat dedications are available.

36

 Dec 03, 2008 at 11:01 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
proud of religion. Says:

Shame on you!! Maybe you should sell your religion for a few dollars! Every single Rabbi in israel claimed that the bus #2 bombing was connected with the terrible Chilul Hatznius on these buses! Its a matter of saving lives!

Every single person with daas said that the bomb was because of machlokes among the Rabbonim

37

 Dec 03, 2008 at 10:59 AM Anonymous Says:

I am in har nof all the time where there is a 15A bus - a chareidi bus with men sitting in the front and women entering and sitting in the rear. As an American I alway (out of respect) go in the back door and sit in the rear. I have to tell you though that most of the locals (Charedim, Chasidim, etc.) ignore the rules and sit and enter where they chose. So what does that tell us?

38

 Dec 03, 2008 at 11:16 AM Anonymous Says:

Is it more important to enforce arbitrary Taliban-esque rules (which appear nowhere in the torah, btw), or to feed the hungry. One more scam the haredi are trying to impose on the Israeli government that they do nothing to support.

39

 Dec 03, 2008 at 11:34 AM Grandpajoe Says:

You know what I think we should divide the world up Men in one country and women in the other. Are you so weak that seeing a woman in the street or on a bus is a chilul hashem. Then do not go to a hospital or doctor's office, or to a bank - for that matter cloister yourseles in your home. The true test of one's emunah is to be able to combat all this in one's mind.

40

 Dec 03, 2008 at 11:33 AM Anonymous Says:

For once I agree with the Charedim. They want to use their own money to run a bus company the way they see fit, Whats wrong with that? You don't like the idea of separate seating then use your right to boycott it. All of you "free thinkers" who don't listen or have to listen to any Rabbonim, you should at least respect their wishes.

You all sound like the Liberals, your pro choice as long as its your choice.

41

 Dec 03, 2008 at 11:32 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
Anonymous Says:

"Egged's transportation of promiscuity is currently the number one enemy of haredi Judaism, and has already claimed many victims,"

Sheesh. And I was spending all this time worrying about terrorism and the economy when all along the biggest threat facing our community is Egged. My brothers it is time to rise up and defend your families. Let us not waste our precious funds and resources on petty issues such as supporting yeshivas and other charitable causes when we can devote those resources to the mother of all causes - the new Mehadrin bus line. The bus line will be under hashgacha temidis of the Potzer Rebbe, Rav Toit Meshige.

Seat dedications are available.

I wouldve laughed if it wasnt so sad

42

 Dec 03, 2008 at 11:26 AM Anonymous Says:

I for one think this a great idea.

I wouldn't want my wife and daughters anywhere men who have uncontrolable hirhurim when riding a public bus with fully clothed women.

43

 Dec 03, 2008 at 11:57 AM BB Says:

Egged is not a private company, its the public transportation for a secular state. Does anyone have a problem using the trains and subways in NY? Its "Ibergetribbene shtisim" , just something for the Kol Korehniks to be busy with. Go on any bus you'd like and just mind your own business. All others buy a one way ticket to Kabul or Tehran.

44

 Dec 03, 2008 at 11:48 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #39  
Grandpajoe Says:

You know what I think we should divide the world up Men in one country and women in the other. Are you so weak that seeing a woman in the street or on a bus is a chilul hashem. Then do not go to a hospital or doctor's office, or to a bank - for that matter cloister yourseles in your home. The true test of one's emunah is to be able to combat all this in one's mind.

thats not good eough. we can set up an experimental colony on mars and send the women there.

45

 Dec 03, 2008 at 11:46 AM WolfishMusings Says:

I think that there is good and bad in this idea.

The good is that they are finally taking the right approach. Rather than force the existing bus customers who don't want mehadrin buses to sit separately, they are striving to start their own service. That's all fine and well.

The bad, however, is that while the article does not explicitly say so, my guess (and that's what it is) is that the service will not be able to run as a normal business but will have to be subsidized by charity dollars (or shekalim). Again, at some other time, that might not be a bad idea. But we have seen stories about how kollel stipends are being cut and some are even closing because contributions from wealthy people in the US and other parts of the world are drying up. I think the chareidim have to take a long, hard look at the situation, realize the resources are scarce and make a determination if this is really necessary at this time. Is it worth the closing of a kollel or two, or forcing a kollel family to have to cut food rations? Or, assuming the $100K can be raised, can the money be put to better use?

The Wolf

46

 Dec 03, 2008 at 12:17 PM GREAT LINE Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

Perhaps the charidis should ask the taliban for suggestions on how to keep the sexes seperate as they aren't that far apart in thinking

Your'e right we should

47

 Dec 03, 2008 at 11:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
proud of religion. Says:

Shame on you!! Maybe you should sell your religion for a few dollars! Every single Rabbi in israel claimed that the bus #2 bombing was connected with the terrible Chilul Hatznius on these buses! Its a matter of saving lives!

i am glad to hear that every rabbi know the will of hashem. perhaps they can give me some financial advice if they know that much. and if you are interested in purchasing my religion my me an offer.

48

 Dec 03, 2008 at 11:41 AM ani nee moose Says:

Reply to #5  
proud of religion. Says:

Shame on you!! Maybe you should sell your religion for a few dollars! Every single Rabbi in israel claimed that the bus #2 bombing was connected with the terrible Chilul Hatznius on these buses! Its a matter of saving lives!

i guess your rabbis are either one of 3:
children, teh mentally retarded, or women. that is the only way they could have nevuah over why teh #2 bus bombing happened. no rabbi ever knows why anything happenes, as they do not under any circumstances talk to god in a 2 way fashion. what you said is pure kfirah, and any rabbi who says they know why something bad happens is flat out lying to stir up emotions. maybe that is their job as a rabbi, maybe not, but dont for one second actually believe they know the reason.

49

 Dec 03, 2008 at 11:40 AM Anonymous Says:

Look at the bright side. They still let American Charaidi Bais Yaakov girls to ride the same bus as the Israeli Charaidi Bais Yaakov girls on the way to the school where they are not allowed to sit in the same classroom.

50

 Dec 03, 2008 at 12:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
proud of religion. Says:

Shame on you!! Maybe you should sell your religion for a few dollars! Every single Rabbi in israel claimed that the bus #2 bombing was connected with the terrible Chilul Hatznius on these buses! Its a matter of saving lives!

"proud of religion"... how brainwashed are you?

51

 Dec 03, 2008 at 01:06 PM Anonymous Says:

If they dont like it let them move to Afghanistan where they belong. We don't have to pay for their crazy chumras.

52

 Dec 03, 2008 at 01:44 PM Proud of religion Says:

Reply to #39  
Grandpajoe Says:

You know what I think we should divide the world up Men in one country and women in the other. Are you so weak that seeing a woman in the street or on a bus is a chilul hashem. Then do not go to a hospital or doctor's office, or to a bank - for that matter cloister yourseles in your home. The true test of one's emunah is to be able to combat all this in one's mind.

As a grandpa you should already know the Gemara in brochos "b deika darka achrinah ROSHO hi" apparently they understood we should do our best to prevent such situations!

53

 Dec 03, 2008 at 02:06 PM Pali Arab says Says:

I guess these buses will be safer, members only, meaning chareidim only, donations only,for legal reasons they won't be allowed to charge a fair, no arab bombers allowed on.
For that alone it is a good charity. The fact that chareidi men around the world use public transport, including NY subway, see Igros Moshe Tshuvos, if it is efshar binyan acheir, the going that way is a rosha. Adding to it Chareidi women are probably cause more hirhurei Aveirah to chareidi men thhen Goyim & freirer do.

54

 Dec 03, 2008 at 02:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Can someone tell me where I can donate I cant find the link!

My only question is which bus line do all the child molestors who run away to Israel have to sit on. Do they get their own line ?


55

 Dec 03, 2008 at 02:49 PM Anonny Says:

Reply to #52  
Proud of religion Says:

As a grandpa you should already know the Gemara in brochos "b deika darka achrinah ROSHO hi" apparently they understood we should do our best to prevent such situations!

If you're really such a scholar, why not read the first part of that Gemara and see what it's talking about?! The Gemara is talking about when one is passing "nashim omdos al hakvisa" - women along the riverbanks who are washing laundry with their sleeves rolled up, thus presenting a tznius problem. The Gemara does NOT say that about a standard road (or bus, for that matter), where women are properly dressed.

Get your facts straight before you attack people.

56

 Dec 03, 2008 at 02:55 PM Chochom Says:

#5 I am with you. We really need separate buses - it is very difficult for me on the bus when all the women have such hirhurim about me.

57

 Dec 03, 2008 at 03:52 PM Anonymous Says:

i dont think the problem is with how the women are dressed if you were ever on the number 1 or 2 bus you will know that they are full most of the time and you have many people standing and bumping into each other with almost every turn or if you do get a seat you wil have a perfect stranger man or women standing on your head i think that could be a problem

58

 Dec 03, 2008 at 04:16 PM proud of religion Says:

Reply to #57  
Anonymous Says:

i dont think the problem is with how the women are dressed if you were ever on the number 1 or 2 bus you will know that they are full most of the time and you have many people standing and bumping into each other with almost every turn or if you do get a seat you wil have a perfect stranger man or women standing on your head i think that could be a problem

Very well said! All it takes is one ride on that bus to see that you are 100% correct!

59

 Dec 03, 2008 at 04:14 PM Proud of religion Says:

Reply to #55  
Anonny Says:

If you're really such a scholar, why not read the first part of that Gemara and see what it's talking about?! The Gemara is talking about when one is passing "nashim omdos al hakvisa" - women along the riverbanks who are washing laundry with their sleeves rolled up, thus presenting a tznius problem. The Gemara does NOT say that about a standard road (or bus, for that matter), where women are properly dressed.

Get your facts straight before you attack people.

Well i certainly see your level of scholarship. Do you know that's it's an Issur D'orisa to be Mistakel on Aryus which includes married women?! Give the Torah back to G-d if your not happy with it!

60

 Dec 03, 2008 at 05:38 PM Anonny Says:

Reply to #59  
Proud of religion Says:

Well i certainly see your level of scholarship. Do you know that's it's an Issur D'orisa to be Mistakel on Aryus which includes married women?! Give the Torah back to G-d if your not happy with it!

I'm perfectly happy with the Torah, thank you. It's people like YOU who are not happy with our Torah, and feel the need to "improve" it with your own chumras.

"Mistakel", for the record, means "gazing". Meaning staring specifically at the subject due to an interest in it (or her). There is nothing wrong with seeing a woman in passing on the street or on a bus. It is when you take a "second look" and take interest in what you happened to notice (perhaps even accidentally at first) that you are oiver.

61

 Dec 03, 2008 at 05:45 PM nachoman Says:

Reply to #57  
Anonymous Says:

i dont think the problem is with how the women are dressed if you were ever on the number 1 or 2 bus you will know that they are full most of the time and you have many people standing and bumping into each other with almost every turn or if you do get a seat you wil have a perfect stranger man or women standing on your head i think that could be a problem

exactly, if anyone has been on the kotel bus especially on motzai shabbos they see the problem. Its a mad house men woman and children charging towards the buses pushing, shoving, touching, its nuts. pun. You dont need to be a fanatic to see the problem.

62

 Dec 03, 2008 at 05:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #40  
Anonymous Says:

For once I agree with the Charedim. They want to use their own money to run a bus company the way they see fit, Whats wrong with that? You don't like the idea of separate seating then use your right to boycott it. All of you "free thinkers" who don't listen or have to listen to any Rabbonim, you should at least respect their wishes.

You all sound like the Liberals, your pro choice as long as its your choice.

But they are not paying for it. They are asking Americans to give money that could be better used to support local yeshivas

63

 Dec 03, 2008 at 06:14 PM Proud of religion Says:

Reply to #60  
Anonny Says:

I'm perfectly happy with the Torah, thank you. It's people like YOU who are not happy with our Torah, and feel the need to "improve" it with your own chumras.

"Mistakel", for the record, means "gazing". Meaning staring specifically at the subject due to an interest in it (or her). There is nothing wrong with seeing a woman in passing on the street or on a bus. It is when you take a "second look" and take interest in what you happened to notice (perhaps even accidentally at first) that you are oiver.

Read comment #57,what's your answer to that problem?!

64

 Dec 03, 2008 at 07:19 PM I full,y agree Says:

Reply to #60  
Anonny Says:

I'm perfectly happy with the Torah, thank you. It's people like YOU who are not happy with our Torah, and feel the need to "improve" it with your own chumras.

"Mistakel", for the record, means "gazing". Meaning staring specifically at the subject due to an interest in it (or her). There is nothing wrong with seeing a woman in passing on the street or on a bus. It is when you take a "second look" and take interest in what you happened to notice (perhaps even accidentally at first) that you are oiver.

Did you wonder when it says "Lo sosuru achrei livavchem viachrei eineichem", why does it say livavchem first? It should say eineichem first !! First the eyes see then the heart wants to sin?

The teretz is; When the eyes simply "see" and you turn away, you did nothing wrong. The problem is after seeing, now your heart starts to have desires and you turn your eineichem back.

(Heard beshem R' Y Goldwasser)

65

 Dec 03, 2008 at 06:53 PM Anonny Says:

Reply to #63  
Proud of religion Says:

Read comment #57,what's your answer to that problem?!

Simple. Pressure Egged into making the #2 bus come more often, instead of waiting for people to pile up at the stops. I take the #2 bus every single day of the week, at least twice a day, and I can tell you firsthand that it does not come often enough to handle the demand.

Starting a new company is basically reinventing the wheel for nothing (aside from the fact that the new company will NOT be able to handle the demand). Instead, pressure the existing company to do the job right. Egged already has the buses and drivers; it just needs to allocate them properly. A new company will lack sufficient resources. Trust me, I've seen it with the "Movilei Havradim" bus lines that already attempted to supplant certain Egged lines.

Besides, as a parting shot: if these people are really so frum, why do they get onto a bus that's so overcrowded?! If they're really ready to sacrifice as much as they say they are for their values, why not just wait for the next bus?! It amazes me that people can't make that much effort, yet they're willing to expend the efforts necessary to try to build a new company from scratch...

66

 Dec 03, 2008 at 08:51 PM shocked Says:

I am horrified by what i am reading. I am not a member of this community, but just a few days ago I visited this sight for one of the first times and saw such an outpouring of compassion, unity and ahavas yisroel. I checked the sight tonight and reading these comments is sickening. Why such vitriol for another Jew? Can't we let other yidden do things their way and if we do not agree, we can do so silently. How much of our lives are we gonna worry about what other people are doing? We've got a lot of soul searching to do.
And editor, please tell me, why print so much loshon haro? The idea of a comment box is very nice, but look what is coming our of it? Sinaah, loshon haro, accusations-false or otherwise. Why print it??????

67

 Dec 03, 2008 at 10:36 PM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #29  
Anonymous Says:

I dont get it! Im around woman all my life never even once have I noiticed anyone of them bite!

The reason they are so scared of ladies is because "Zie Liggen In Taavois" RCHM"L. They are such great Baalie Taaveh that even the sight of a Tzniessdikeh Erlicher Frau causes them to lose control!

I dont see Erlichkiet in this, all I see is weakness as Yidden and weakness as human beings as a whole!

Let them take along a Sefer on the bus for a change and not be busy with all of thier surroundings, come on the train here in NY every day and you will see hundreds of Yingerliet sitting all around women and they r deeply engrossed in Limud Hatohreh! I think that is much more in line with the Rutzoin Hashem!

I take seforim, and an MP3 player with audio shiurim, whenever I take public transit in New York, which is often. It was a chasidic rabbi who told me I should take public transit rather than drive because it provides more time for Torah learning. I don't pay attention to the other people on the bus or train unless I'm traveling with my wife. (And it is mutar for me to sit next to my wife.)

68

 Dec 04, 2008 at 01:37 AM Antelope110 Says:

I am not against a "tznius bus" if it is privately funded by the people who want to use it. Why are the chareidim in Israel not using the "kosher busses" already developed by Eged? I am "ultra-orthodox," but I must say I wonder why people on this site who believe that men can be "ruined" by these busses are spending so much time chatting on the internet, which has certainly been proven dangerous?

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 Dec 04, 2008 at 10:16 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
Anonymous Says:

i dont think the problem is with how the women are dressed if you were ever on the number 1 or 2 bus you will know that they are full most of the time and you have many people standing and bumping into each other with almost every turn or if you do get a seat you wil have a perfect stranger man or women standing on your head i think that could be a problem

The Igros Moshe addresses the situation of a man who needs to get to work by crowded subway and he paskens it is mutar.

The NYC subway is just as packed and the women are not dressed like most of the people on the #1 bus.

70

 Dec 04, 2008 at 01:00 PM DizzyIzzy Says:

Reply to #30  
Anonymous Says:

I find it hard to believe that every rabbi in eretz yisroel agreed on anything.

Brilliant!!!

71

 Dec 04, 2008 at 12:58 PM DizzyIzzy Says:

Reply to #27  
Anonymous Says:

IF YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR LIFE THEN JUST LIVE IT AND LET OTHERS LIVE THERE LIFE PEACEFULLY

What an odd suggestion when we're talking about elements that seem to believe that it is their god given responsibility to force their lunatic chumros on everyone else, and on everyone else's dime.

A better suggestion is for these shiftless goons live their own lives, earn their own money, and suffer their own self-imposed misery.

72

 Dec 07, 2008 at 11:29 PM Anonymous Says:

>exactly, if anyone has been on the kotel bus especially on motzai shabbos they see the problem. Its a mad house men woman and children charging towards the buses pushing, shoving, touching, its nuts. pun. You dont need to be a fanatic to see the problem.<

well let them learn some basic self-control then. I have the opportunity many mornings to jump on the 2nd of two buses that get to my bus-stop simultaneously, thus jumping the line (as many of the 'frummer' do), but I avoid doing so and pay the price of waiting longer or standing for 40 minutes.

73

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