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Jerusalem - Israeli Rabbi: Prominent Charedi Yeshivos Looking Away As Students Ditch The Beis Medrash

Published on: May 19, 2016 01:44 PM
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FILE - Yeshiva students stand outside the Mir Yeshiva in the neighborhood of mea shearim, Jerusalem, January 23, 2013. Photo by Yonatan Sindel/Flash90  FILE - Yeshiva students stand outside the Mir Yeshiva in the neighborhood of mea shearim, Jerusalem, January 23, 2013. Photo by Yonatan Sindel/Flash90

Jerusalem - An influential Israeli rabbi has slammed two prominent Israeli yeshivos, saying that the vast majority of students enrolled in those institutions of higher education are doing little, if any, learning.

Rabbi Yitzchak Cohen, an outreach activist and a self-proclaimed kabala expert, took both Yeshivat Chevron and the Mirrer Yeshiva in Jerusalem to task in a scathing rebuke, saying that of the thousands of talmidim enrolled, only a minute percentage are actually engaged in their studies, as reported by Israeli website Kikar Hashabat.

Rabbi Cohen said that while others have been afraid to speak publicly about the subject, he felt it necessary for people, particularly parents of these bochurim, to know the painful truth.  He charged the yeshiva world with being “totally corrupt” and estimated that of more than one thousand students enrolled in Yeshivat Chevron, less than ten percent are in the beis medrash at any given time.

“There are 1,100 bochurim on the streets or in their beds,” said Rabbi Cohen. “1,200 bochurim in the Chevron yeshiva and you won’t find even 100 in the beis medrash.”

Rabbi Cohen also took to task the many yeshiva students who hitchhike and said it pained him to have to speak so harshly.

“It is better than I wouldn’t have been born than to have to air our dirty laundry like this but I have no choice,” said Rabbi Cohen.  “Maybe I will be the Nachshon ben Aminadav and I will drop this bomb and maybe our eyes will finally be opened to the truth.”

Rabbi Yitzchak CohenRabbi Yitzchak Cohen

Rabbi Cohen also took aim at students of the Mir, saying that while the yeshiva takes up an entire block and has thousands of talmidim, the same problems exist.

“Go during seder and see how many boys are sitting in the bais medrash and how many are sitting in local restaurants,” remarked Rabbi Cohen.  “All of the restaurants and bakeries in the Bais Yisroel neighborhood know that during Nissan and Tishrei their business is terrible because the bochurim are away on vacation.”

Adding insult to injury is that parents who invest their entire being into raising their children send them to yeshiva in Israel, think that their sons will grow in their learning and fear of G-d, but many succumb to grave temptations, according to Rabbi Cohen.

“These boys go downhill,” said Rabbi Cohen.  “The rabbonim cover for them and pretend not to notice and the parents have absolutely no idea.  In previous generations things never deteriorated as far as they have today.”

Critics in the yeshiva world denounced Rabbi Cohen, saying his remarks had no basis in reality and defended the two yeshivas in question, as well as their students, saying that the majority of students are immersed in their studies throughout their waking hours.

“Better that he deals with what he knows how to do best, if there even are such things, instead of getting involved in things he knows nothing about,” said one.


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Read Comments (51)  —  Post Yours »

1

 May 19, 2016 at 01:50 PM It's true.............. Says:

When I was in Israel with my husbnd, many years ago, I noticed how many bucherim hang out in the streets. Their parents pay huge tuitions hoping their son will " shteig".. For that reason I will never send my son to Israel to learn.

2

 May 19, 2016 at 01:51 PM Talmud Says:

As a former talmud myself I can say, oh is he right! Presious time is wasted by to many.

3

 May 19, 2016 at 01:55 PM yonasonw Says:

Not a chiddush...except for who is speaking about it now.

4

 May 19, 2016 at 01:58 PM Kovod HaTorah Says:

I'm sorry but this guy sounds like a farbiterta Rosh Yeshiva who can't attract more than a mezuman to his yeshiva.

5

 May 19, 2016 at 01:58 PM kenyaninwhitehouse Says:

so is college a waste of time, you think there are no parties in college?

6

 May 19, 2016 at 02:01 PM Ina Says:

Very few among us can sit and learn diligently hour after hour. And yet, the system is set up so that the majority will fail. There are untold social issues owing to the kollel system that is currently in place. Once in a while it is good to look at what we are doing. Thanks for posting this.

7

 May 19, 2016 at 02:07 PM Anonymous Says:

A be gerett. The Mir has gotten a lot stricter on who they accept into the yeshiva and a lot of the riff raf is gone. But like in any yeshiva including Brisk and Ponevitz you always have guys slacking off. But it definetly is not 90% not learning.

8

 May 19, 2016 at 02:25 PM ayoyo Says:

He should look at the many kollilim where most of the young married are supposed to be learning . Most of the students are there because it doesn't look good not to spend years ''learning'' after marriage They can be seen in the streets mid day walking around or pushing baby carriages..

9

 May 19, 2016 at 02:35 PM Mir Talmud Says:

He is behind the curve. This was a problem when I learned the Mir. However, towards the end of R Noson Tzvi's life time, the rosh yeshiva ZT"L starting cracking down. The current rosh yeshiva R Lazer Yudel got even tougher. The mir no longer has an open door policy. In fact, believe it or not its not so easy to get accepted to the mir any more. (albiet not as hard as Brisk). I know many bochrim who got rejected. The mir is know much more organized and well run.

I also take issue with his complaint that “All of the restaurants and bakeries in the Bais Yisroel neighborhood know that during Nissan and Tishrei their business is terrible because the bochurim are away on vacation." So what? Is there something wrong with shopping at a fresh bakery during bein hasedorim. Yes those stores loose money in Nissan and Tisheri. But thats because even during allocated lunch& supper hours there are no boys around to shop at their stores.

10

 May 19, 2016 at 02:37 PM Sam Says:

It's very simple. Test the students. If students fail, send them packing.

11

 May 19, 2016 at 02:40 PM ActualJew Says:

everyone knows this. he is right for pointing out corruption.

12

 May 19, 2016 at 02:41 PM williamsburg bagel Says:

Reply to #1  
It's true.............. Says:

When I was in Israel with my husbnd, many years ago, I noticed how many bucherim hang out in the streets. Their parents pay huge tuitions hoping their son will " shteig".. For that reason I will never send my son to Israel to learn.

million percent right!

13

 May 19, 2016 at 02:56 PM Not like College Says:

Reply to #5  
kenyaninwhitehouse Says:

so is college a waste of time, you think there are no parties in college?

The comparison to college is wrong. In College you have tests. In High School we had 3 times a year the Big Bechina. Once you get to E.Y. you have no tests.
Part of growing up is to make yourself understand there is a time for serious time and, yes, maybe a time to relax and eat or drink.

14

 May 19, 2016 at 02:58 PM bubii Says:

This whole limud toreh is for a small part of the youngeleit by small i mean mAYBEE 10 per cent, the 90 per cent are lofers fakers,they are wasting their lifes away and those gownups who are supposed to lead them their parents included are indifferent to their childrens future,it is mamesh similar to killing ones future life they will have to be dependent on the government handouts it is a truely an injustice of the first order.

15

 May 19, 2016 at 03:00 PM TALMUD Says:

Because the yetzer hora does exist , it is possible to see negativity in the world. However I Learned at Mir. There are thousands of people in the BM learning. I would say less than 10% are on the street. There would have to be 1000 on the street which there aren't. The learning going on in the yeshivas are a major kiddish hashem. Do not ever doubt it.

16

 May 19, 2016 at 03:01 PM Mark Levin Says:

Reply to #10  
Sam Says:

It's very simple. Test the students. If students fail, send them packing.

I never did well on tests however I never had a problem with anyone trying to sit and learn no matter how "successful" they were or weren't.

Don't be jealous. It's not a good midah to have.

17

 May 19, 2016 at 03:01 PM Former Talmud Says:

The Mir gives test and pays if you get a decent mark.

18

 May 19, 2016 at 03:03 PM LashOut Says:

Reply to #5  
kenyaninwhitehouse Says:

so is college a waste of time, you think there are no parties in college?

So is life a waste of time, you think there are no parties in life?

His point was that the kids should be learning during learning time, and going out only after having done their learning (obviously to places suitable for a ben Torah).

19

 May 19, 2016 at 03:07 PM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #5  
kenyaninwhitehouse Says:

so is college a waste of time, you think there are no parties in college?

Sure there are parties...but class attendance is near 100%, or at least was when I went to college, which included graduate and law schools. If nothing else, we had exams to pass...and needed to be in class.

20

 May 19, 2016 at 03:08 PM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #5  
kenyaninwhitehouse Says:

so is college a waste of time, you think there are no parties in college?

So...the majority are loafers, and yet use their status as bochrim to get out of the Army. Sweet deal.

21

 May 19, 2016 at 03:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Sam Says:

It's very simple. Test the students. If students fail, send them packing.

Sorry but its not very simple. Torah is not measured by how may tests you take or pass. Its not a secular subject. A yeshiva like the Mir has boys from differnet backgrounds. Some may be bali teshuva or just boys that never took much to learning till recently.
The key to learning should be hasmada with a focus of how to maximize my time so that I can attain the most learning. But its measured differently by every jew. Hashem won't expect one who started later in life to be a R Elishav ZT"L.
Henceforth, when we make a syuim we say אנו עמלים והם עמלים אנו עמלים ומקבּלים שׁכר והם עמלים ואינם מקבּלים שׁכר. Because in the secular world you don't get paid for עמל. You get paid only for results. Did you bring a profit for the company or not. But the eibshter pays for work irrespectable of the results as long as its true work.

Perhaps you mean to say take attendance and those that fail send them packing. But thats a bit harder to measure.

22

 May 19, 2016 at 03:32 PM kenyaninwhitehouse Says:

Reply to #20  
yonasonw Says:

So...the majority are loafers, and yet use their status as bochrim to get out of the Army. Sweet deal.

the Army is without a question tuma of the highest order, if one believes he cannot learn it is assur to go into the Zionist army, we survived the czar cantonist decree and the Ottomans draft we will survive the neo-Cantonist Zionists drafting efforts.

23

 May 19, 2016 at 04:25 PM bubii Says:

Reply to #22  
kenyaninwhitehouse Says:

the Army is without a question tuma of the highest order, if one believes he cannot learn it is assur to go into the Zionist army, we survived the czar cantonist decree and the Ottomans draft we will survive the neo-Cantonist Zionists drafting efforts.

The only thing that is truly tuma is your crooked mind,you need to be made to work hard so that you can truly understand the reall world,in the real world you have to struggle everyday to make ends meet,you are truly a shoite ,you have it too good spoiled beyond words.

24

 May 19, 2016 at 04:26 PM tests or attendence Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

Sorry but its not very simple. Torah is not measured by how may tests you take or pass. Its not a secular subject. A yeshiva like the Mir has boys from differnet backgrounds. Some may be bali teshuva or just boys that never took much to learning till recently.
The key to learning should be hasmada with a focus of how to maximize my time so that I can attain the most learning. But its measured differently by every jew. Hashem won't expect one who started later in life to be a R Elishav ZT"L.
Henceforth, when we make a syuim we say אנו עמלים והם עמלים אנו עמלים ומקבּלים שׁכר והם עמלים ואינם מקבּלים שׁכר. Because in the secular world you don't get paid for עמל. You get paid only for results. Did you bring a profit for the company or not. But the eibshter pays for work irrespectable of the results as long as its true work.

Perhaps you mean to say take attendance and those that fail send them packing. But thats a bit harder to measure.

It can't be that hard to set a rule, sort of shape up or ship out.
If you don't test well be someone that really is there and learning the hours.
If it is a great time to be independent and fun and fress because Parents, in laws are not there to observe their money being spent, then....

25

 May 19, 2016 at 04:39 PM takeittothem Says:

Reply to #20  
yonasonw Says:

So...the majority are loafers, and yet use their status as bochrim to get out of the Army. Sweet deal.

This is the first letter I find that tells the truth.
To get out of the army, they, supposedly, sit in a yeshiva.
Similarly in the U.S., during the years of the army draft, kids would sit in yeshivas, just to get out of doing any service for their country.
Shandeh !!

26

 May 19, 2016 at 04:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
kenyaninwhitehouse Says:

the Army is without a question tuma of the highest order, if one believes he cannot learn it is assur to go into the Zionist army, we survived the czar cantonist decree and the Ottomans draft we will survive the neo-Cantonist Zionists drafting efforts.

Shame on you !
After Hashem, it's the 'Zionist' army that keeps all the freeloading chareidim safe.
Shame on you !

27

 May 19, 2016 at 04:52 PM buruch Says:

Reply to #22  
kenyaninwhitehouse Says:

the Army is without a question tuma of the highest order, if one believes he cannot learn it is assur to go into the Zionist army, we survived the czar cantonist decree and the Ottomans draft we will survive the neo-Cantonist Zionists drafting efforts.

100% right , .....................hasy'b should help everybody immediatly...............

28

 May 19, 2016 at 04:58 PM Secular Says:

Reply to #2  
Talmud Says:

As a former talmud myself I can say, oh is he right! Presious time is wasted by to many.

הֵן-רַבִּים עַתָּה עַם הָאָרֶץ


Indeed. You are not a former Talmud, but a former Talmid.

29

 May 19, 2016 at 04:58 PM zelig Says:

No reason to debate the issue. Just take a stroll down Bnei Brak or Yerushalayim main streets at any hour of the learning day.

30

 May 19, 2016 at 05:13 PM hmmmm Says:

This is the reason I pay big money for my son to learn in a smaller yeshiva which is known to have hashgacha on the buchrim , who I can say because I'm anonymous here , he's not a trouble maker , he's a top bucher , I still wouldn't sleep well if he's in those huge yeshivas. Even so -- nothing is guaranteed... We all need to daven that our children shouldn't be the ones making the bagel guy rich .

31

 May 19, 2016 at 05:35 PM JoeField1 Says:

Reply to #16  
Mark Levin Says:

I never did well on tests however I never had a problem with anyone trying to sit and learn no matter how "successful" they were or weren't.

Don't be jealous. It's not a good midah to have.

Now I know why you have all these unwise (saying it kindly) views, as you said you never did good on tests, you don’t have the wherewithal to understand that you don’t know what you are talking about.

32

 May 19, 2016 at 05:48 PM anyview Says:

Reply to #22  
kenyaninwhitehouse Says:

the Army is without a question tuma of the highest order, if one believes he cannot learn it is assur to go into the Zionist army, we survived the czar cantonist decree and the Ottomans draft we will survive the neo-Cantonist Zionists drafting efforts.

What you are saying is that you prefer to see Palestinian rule over what is now Israel. To think that you would be better off if Ch'V this happened or even allowed to learn in EY, never mind getting a stipend for doing so, is absurd.

33

 May 19, 2016 at 05:54 PM Texas_Joe Says:

Only ten percent in the Beis HaMedrash at any given time?! That is a gross and irresponsible exaggeration! He clearly was one of the ninety percent not in those Batei Midrash when he was a bochur!

34

 May 19, 2016 at 06:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Maybe people need to come to grips with the reality that only about 15% of guys are cut out for seriously learning 12 hours a day indefinitely, and that they should therefore preparing themselves for the workforce starting from Mesivta.

35

 May 19, 2016 at 06:12 PM szalamis Says:

Reply to #7  
Anonymous Says:

A be gerett. The Mir has gotten a lot stricter on who they accept into the yeshiva and a lot of the riff raf is gone. But like in any yeshiva including Brisk and Ponevitz you always have guys slacking off. But it definetly is not 90% not learning.

I hate to disappoint but this is an American sickness (US boys mostly stroll or waste time). i learned in Ponevez / Bnei Beraq a long time ago and the Beis Medrash was always full; not 10% missing, not 5% missing. If out of 600-700 guys there were a handful absent then it was for a reason. This Rabbi Cohen is most unfortunately on the mark!!!! A very large percentage of guys go to learn there because it an easy life and a vacation; they are not serious learners, period. Their 'sof zman' is before Purim till well after Pesach, weeks in summer and same at Sukkos time. Three months a year vacation.

36

 May 19, 2016 at 06:52 PM CommonSense Says:

What he doesn't understand is.... We're not talking about kids in elementary school. We're talking about 20 year old adults.
The yeshiva function is to create a place where whoever wants to learn can learn.
You can't force people to learn not should you.
Every individual has free choice.
If this is where the generation is holding them let him bemoan that fact....

37

 May 19, 2016 at 06:52 PM Sam Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

Sorry but its not very simple. Torah is not measured by how may tests you take or pass. Its not a secular subject. A yeshiva like the Mir has boys from differnet backgrounds. Some may be bali teshuva or just boys that never took much to learning till recently.
The key to learning should be hasmada with a focus of how to maximize my time so that I can attain the most learning. But its measured differently by every jew. Hashem won't expect one who started later in life to be a R Elishav ZT"L.
Henceforth, when we make a syuim we say אנו עמלים והם עמלים אנו עמלים ומקבּלים שׁכר והם עמלים ואינם מקבּלים שׁכר. Because in the secular world you don't get paid for עמל. You get paid only for results. Did you bring a profit for the company or not. But the eibshter pays for work irrespectable of the results as long as its true work.

Perhaps you mean to say take attendance and those that fail send them packing. But thats a bit harder to measure.

This is not an honest response. True there's the concept of learning for the sake of learning and HKBH will reward you for that. But the Yeshiva isn't HKB"H. We also know that there's the concept of lilmod al m'nas laasos. Why? No one said you need to hold everyone to the same standards. But some standards are needed. Showing up and knowing the subject matter is not too much to ask for.

38

 May 19, 2016 at 07:09 PM Anonymous Says:

We live in an age that a huge portion of the frum community believes that every single bochur belongs in the bais hamedrash. This idea is extended to the first bunch of years post-marriage. This across the board declaration is not without its flaws. No one should claim that it is not wonderful to be involved in learning in a serious way. Every bais hamedrash should be full. But not every individual there belongs there.

It is disgraceful when a seat in the bais hamedrash is being occupied by someone who is not learning, lacks the skill or passion to be there. Since the yeshivos in Eretz Yisroel tend to have little to no hashgocho, they become a haven for anything but learning. It would be unfair to say that learning boys are not there. But the system is full of loopholes. No one takes attendance, and absences are never detected. The enrollment is easily done for the line in the shidduch resume. That's a bizayon.

Even if the problem is not as bad as this report, it still exists. It did in my days there, and certainly is live and well today. It should be a place for serious learners to advance their learning, not a way station for those uninterested or lazy.

39

 May 19, 2016 at 08:55 PM Esther Says:

Reply to #5  
kenyaninwhitehouse Says:

so is college a waste of time, you think there are no parties in college?

Continuously rebutting with "well they...." is not a very mature response. We should expect more from ourselves and little self searching goes along way.

40

 May 19, 2016 at 09:47 PM tar45 Says:

He is way off base.true in any yeshiva there will be boys hanging out,but being the proud parent of 4 boys who learnt in the Mir the past 10 years,I have seen first hand the packed bais midrash and the kol Torah.furthermore the rebbeim do Keep an eye on the bachrim and have confided to me that if the PARENTS showed a active involvement there would be less boys on the street..

41

 May 19, 2016 at 09:47 PM Anonymous Says:

I find it fascinating how different people see things the way they want to see them.

You have several people on this board saying how "just take a stroll outside the yeshiva" and commenting about how they "see people on the streets"... meanwhile not one person here bothered to mention to look or actually looked inside the Batei Midrashim. Most people I know come back from visiting Israel telling me how inspired they were by seeing so many packed Batei Midrashim.

Are there some people wasting their time & parents money? Of course, but if you walk in to the Batei Midrashim during first or second seder they are absolutely packed.

This person who wrote the article obviously has no clue... for every 100 people you see outside there are over 1,000 sitting and learning.

This percentage has not changed from when I was there as a "bocher" fifteen years ago (when I couldn't find a seat) to the few times I've gone back to visit.

P.S. I am speaking in reference to The Mir, all though imagine Chevron is not much different... obviously this "Rabbi" has an agenda and is bitter about something.

42

 May 19, 2016 at 10:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
yonasonw Says:

Sure there are parties...but class attendance is near 100%, or at least was when I went to college, which included graduate and law schools. If nothing else, we had exams to pass...and needed to be in class.

But you're proof positive that school can't teach you Middos, give you self esteem, or give you common sense.

43

 May 19, 2016 at 11:19 PM tar45 Says:

Reply to #41  
Anonymous Says:

I find it fascinating how different people see things the way they want to see them.

You have several people on this board saying how "just take a stroll outside the yeshiva" and commenting about how they "see people on the streets"... meanwhile not one person here bothered to mention to look or actually looked inside the Batei Midrashim. Most people I know come back from visiting Israel telling me how inspired they were by seeing so many packed Batei Midrashim.

Are there some people wasting their time & parents money? Of course, but if you walk in to the Batei Midrashim during first or second seder they are absolutely packed.

This person who wrote the article obviously has no clue... for every 100 people you see outside there are over 1,000 sitting and learning.

This percentage has not changed from when I was there as a "bocher" fifteen years ago (when I couldn't find a seat) to the few times I've gone back to visit.

P.S. I am speaking in reference to The Mir, all though imagine Chevron is not much different... obviously this "Rabbi" has an agenda and is bitter about something.

Look at my co.ment before yours and you will see I defended the yeshuvah...

44

 May 19, 2016 at 11:21 PM Sherree Says:

And how many young women are marrying these so called yeshiva bochurim?

45

 May 20, 2016 at 12:42 AM Tsfat-Breslover-Kotzker Says:

Reply to #22  
kenyaninwhitehouse Says:

the Army is without a question tuma of the highest order, if one believes he cannot learn it is assur to go into the Zionist army, we survived the czar cantonist decree and the Ottomans draft we will survive the neo-Cantonist Zionists drafting efforts.

Why? Please tell us why its tumah?

46

 May 20, 2016 at 12:53 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
bubii Says:

The only thing that is truly tuma is your crooked mind,you need to be made to work hard so that you can truly understand the reall world,in the real world you have to struggle everyday to make ends meet,you are truly a shoite ,you have it too good spoiled beyond words.

Bubii
Is the word SHOITE built into your DNA???
EVERY post u comment on has the word in it
You are beyond reproach!
Get off of these sights...you are a shame to humanity and to the Jewish nation, if you are a jew,at all.

47

 May 20, 2016 at 01:29 AM knowitall1 Says:

This man is a Malshon and we can only hope he does t’shuvos because he has been motsay shaim rah on thousands of tzurva ne'Rabanne. I have personally witnessed fully packed Mir batay medrish with an amazing kola Torah in the Mir. This is a chutzpah noraah and total motsay shaim rah. When I learned in lakewood there were people who told me that in lakewood half the bochorim don't learn, and I told them I'm learn there and i see for myself the hasmada and I happen to be friends with the weakest of them all, and even those guys learned two sedarim!!! There will always be those who are malshin on Torah, tzadikim yelchu vampire, veharishaim yikashlu vam!

48

 May 20, 2016 at 11:15 AM bubbi Says:

Reply to #46  
Anonymous Says:

Bubii
Is the word SHOITE built into your DNA???
EVERY post u comment on has the word in it
You are beyond reproach!
Get off of these sights...you are a shame to humanity and to the Jewish nation, if you are a jew,at all.

Toreh learning is meaningless without avode , making a living from working in a 9 to 5 job.

49

 May 20, 2016 at 11:30 AM #21 Says:

Reply to #37  
Sam Says:

This is not an honest response. True there's the concept of learning for the sake of learning and HKBH will reward you for that. But the Yeshiva isn't HKB"H. We also know that there's the concept of lilmod al m'nas laasos. Why? No one said you need to hold everyone to the same standards. But some standards are needed. Showing up and knowing the subject matter is not too much to ask for.

But thats the point. In a diverse yeshiva like the Mir what's some standards? Say you test everyone on simple gemara rashi tosfos, perosnally a guy like me who knows how to learn well BH can easily pass such an exam while still baatlling and wasting half the day. Others on the other hand can't easily pass such an exam. And so how would you decide what exam to administer that's fair to everyone? Its impossible.
Now attendace is somewhat easier to keep track of. But even that gets messy. Whats considered good attendance? Can I go away for shabbos (at least once in a while) which means missing Fridays and maybe being late Sunday?If so how often can I go away How about the mornings? Say I really learn to late at nite but I am not a morning person. I am still putting in the same hours should I be penalized? So should we only take attendance every tuesday at 12.?With a big yeshiva like the Mir these things get very complicated.

50

 May 20, 2016 at 02:16 PM bubii Says:

Everyone who learns in kollel should also learn a trade so he can provide for his family a decent life and anyone who shirks from that duty is the biggest sinner of them all,the rosh yeshivas are the ones who are destroying they younths furture its truly a sin.

51

 May 20, 2016 at 03:25 PM Grown up Says:

Reply to #49  
#21 Says:

But thats the point. In a diverse yeshiva like the Mir what's some standards? Say you test everyone on simple gemara rashi tosfos, perosnally a guy like me who knows how to learn well BH can easily pass such an exam while still baatlling and wasting half the day. Others on the other hand can't easily pass such an exam. And so how would you decide what exam to administer that's fair to everyone? Its impossible.
Now attendace is somewhat easier to keep track of. But even that gets messy. Whats considered good attendance? Can I go away for shabbos (at least once in a while) which means missing Fridays and maybe being late Sunday?If so how often can I go away How about the mornings? Say I really learn to late at nite but I am not a morning person. I am still putting in the same hours should I be penalized? So should we only take attendance every tuesday at 12.?With a big yeshiva like the Mir these things get very complicated.

With all due respect it seems as though you are missing some wisdom which might come with growing older. 2 things that you pointed out beg for a comment
Taking attendance is not that complicated. You did point out certain concerns about when you take a day off for a weekend off but quite simply attendance has to pass the smell test there's a difference between a Friday here and a Friday there or somebody that's really loafthing off.
More interesting is your comment about morning person and night person. In the real world you don't always get the choice of being a morning person or not a morning person. Most people understand that there is a time for davening and most people end up having to work and very few people can say all I'm not a morning person therefore I don't have to be at the minyan in the morning and I don't have to go to work in the morning.
Grow up,

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