Welcome, Guest! - or
Easy to remember!  »  VinNews.com

Lakewood, NJ - Bais Faiga Cancels Class, 1800 Girls Are Home from School

Published on: December 9, 2008 09:25 AM
Change text size Text Size  

Lakewood, NJ -The Lakewood Cheder and Bais Faiga were founded years ago under the auspices of Reb Shneur Kotler, ZT"L as Lakewood’s first school for the yeshivaleit.  It has since blossomed into as a major educational force in the greater Lakewood Jewish community.

The Cheder and Bais Faiga are located in various facilities throughout the area.  The Bais Faiga Elementary School has two buildings: the main campus on Courtney Rd. and the Grater building on Park Ave.

For many years, both mosdos have been run by their current administrator and principal.

But because of late payments to teachers and staff, Lakewood’s local rabbinical authority has sided with the teachers’ body in backing them up as they currently strike.

The strike developed after the mehaheless, together with teachers, claimed that they approached the Lakewood Beis Din led by Rabbi Forscheimer for guidance, and that the Beis Din—with the direct guidance of Reb Shmuel Kamenetsky—decided to call the current strike to protest the non-payment of the already-meager salaries to the teachers.

Advertisement:

This past Friday, letters were send home by teachers to parents explaining their decision.  The letter stated that since the teachers have not been paid recently, and because of a shortage in supplies, they now feel that there is no other option for their part other a cessation of teaching until the matter between the administration and the menahelless is resolved once and for all.

As it stands now, about 1,800 girls from the Bais Faiga Elementary School are staying home until further notice.

The situation in the boys’ school is also tense, but as of now there is no strike there.



More of today's headlines

Israel - I do not condone violence. I certainly do not condone violence against Israeli soldiers, whether it is coming from Palestinians or Israelis, secular or... New York Senior Senator Chuck Schumer says he won't endorse any possible candidates to succeed Hillary Clinton in the senate. At a news conference Schumer said all of...

 

Total294

Read Comments (294)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:29 AM Anonymous Says:

Wow! what r all the girs going to do out of school....

This is terrible

2

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:40 AM Zach Kessin Says:

Those crazy teachers, actually expecting to get paid. If my job didn't pay me on time I would not show up the next day.

3

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:39 AM Anonymous Says:

How can you keep a school for 1800 students going if no one pays tuition?

4

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:35 AM Anonymous Says:

Maybe I'm wrong, but don't you think the school would pay if they had the money? What is a strike going to accomplish?

5

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:35 AM Anonymous Says:

Does the school administrator get his salary? He should do more fundraising

6

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:32 AM Anonymous Says:

does the administration have the money in the bank? if no then we are in really bad shape because all mosdos are struggling

7

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:47 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Zach Kessin Says:

Those crazy teachers, actually expecting to get paid. If my job didn't pay me on time I would not show up the next day.

This school want you to think that its about money but it is not. its about pure polotics and about an individual or two in the higher ups dept.

8

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:45 AM Anonymous Says:

The way to do it. What kind of Chutzpah is it not to pay teachers? Do they not have to pay the same bills, etc., as the administrators?

9

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:43 AM Anonymous Says:

don't be fooled by this article. its not about money and supplies or lack of .its about major politics about one or teo specific individuals.The cheder which is under the same umbrella and administration is open and teachers are being paid. this is what happens with a school that has the attide of HOLIER THEN THOU. Oh am I glad that my kids weren't accepted here because I work for a living

10

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:49 AM KANOY Says:

LIEDER..I'm afraid this is only the tip of the iceberg.

11

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:52 AM Anonymous Says:

of couse no one has the money to pay teachers. lakewood is a community founded on Tzedakah. Recesession=rich people losing money= lakewood having no money=people learning in kollel or being supported by wife's whom are secretaries are going to have less than they did before. Maybe they should have learned some sort of trade, just in case a situation like this arises, and they are unable to be supported by others due to the economy.

12

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:01 AM Big Masmid Says:

If you read today's news you would know that Stocks take a step back , we have to remember that Hashem is testing us, I dont see that we stopped other necessities, why can we support a school??? If its about pure politics, as some have posted, I can say its the biggest Chilul Hashem of our times.

13

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:57 AM yankel Says:

well this didn't happen never ever since we know by us yiden that we have our privet mosdes !! i think that the local or or all the Rabbis to get involved this doesn't make sense that a thing like this to happen , all mosdes r having always problems with financial but if this can happen i think this is a big shame on the local raabis that it got to a situation like this

14

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:55 AM Anonymous Says:

I'm afraid some girls might go off the derech without school. Let's do tsheuvah now

15

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:53 AM Anonymous Says:

sounds like a bailout is the solution!

16

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:06 AM Anonymous Says:

yeshivos don't like parting with money---of course the administrator is getting a paycheck after all he's the administrator--this reminds me of wall street ceos bankrupting their companies and then they have the chutzpah to ask for a 10 million dollar bonus and severance pay.
I've worked this past summer for a yeshivah camp and when the administrator refused to pay me (succos time!! for the summer) telling me this garbage about no money (when his salary/and or embezzlement is paying for his Lexus LS430) i just went to the yeshiva accountant and said if i don't get a check NOW i'm going to bais din today. what do you know i got the check, but there are still tens of other bachurim who never got a check from their summer job as well as married rebbeim with families who don't see their check until shavous no exaggeration.

17

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:12 AM z Says:

Sounds like a good fund raising tactic to me.

18

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:19 AM Anonymous Says:

here are the facts as they stand

bais faiga despite the current economic situation is not in the red the problem is that the current Administrator is diverting funds from bais faiga to the lakewood cheder boys school ,thus denying much needed funds and resources to bais faiga.this jas been going on for a while and it was just discovered that the lakewood cheder has a deficit of over ten million dollars there is no fundraising at all and this administrator is the only one in control ,The problem is that there is a core group of parents that support him because he dosent take wvreyone in to the school which gives them a holier than though attitude.
he refused to pay for much needed staff for bais faiga which the current principle and the roshei yeshivos have took upon themselves to pay these salaries.
this is not just a strike its a demonstration of Kavod hatorah for the roshei yeshiva and for the ziknei hador in whose leadership we follow.

19

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:19 AM Anonymous Says:

For the next week grades 6-8 will be held in the ocean county mall next to macys

20

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:17 AM Yolish Says:

Where is the tuition money going? The books should be audited to see if any of the office staff is misappropriating (pocketing) money. These things do happen, even in heimish enviroments.

21

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:16 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

Does the school administrator get his salary? He should do more fundraising

Not only is the admin getting paid but the school will be having a chinese auction soon like every year. THIS IS ABOUT POLOTICS NOT ABOUT MONEY OR SCHOOL SUPPLIES.

23

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:12 AM YENTA PESHA Says:

time to address thsi to Obama together with GM.

24

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:12 AM Anonymous Says:

Maybe, just maybe, could it be that Rav Forsheimer and Rav Kaminetsky know what they are doing better than any of the groisser sheesers commenting here?

25

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:12 AM mark Says:

LETS BE REALITIC THE KOLLEL DAYS ARE OVER

26

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:11 AM kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

27

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:10 AM Anonymous Says:

The root question is are the parents paying tuition and if not why? After all a school is a business. You cannot expect to pay for a product and not get it. If you are paying tuition and the school is closed send your child elsewhere. If you are not paying tuition on what basis do you have a right to expect free schooling for your childred.
(I am not speaking of someone who is recently unemployed.) That is a tragedy and we must seek to help thru this problem.

28

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:27 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Wow! what r all the girs going to do out of school....

This is terrible

were going to have babysitters for a change

29

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:30 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

yeshivos don't like parting with money---of course the administrator is getting a paycheck after all he's the administrator--this reminds me of wall street ceos bankrupting their companies and then they have the chutzpah to ask for a 10 million dollar bonus and severance pay.
I've worked this past summer for a yeshivah camp and when the administrator refused to pay me (succos time!! for the summer) telling me this garbage about no money (when his salary/and or embezzlement is paying for his Lexus LS430) i just went to the yeshiva accountant and said if i don't get a check NOW i'm going to bais din today. what do you know i got the check, but there are still tens of other bachurim who never got a check from their summer job as well as married rebbeim with families who don't see their check until shavous no exaggeration.

And you know the CEo is still getting his paycheck because .............????

30

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:27 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

yeshivos don't like parting with money---of course the administrator is getting a paycheck after all he's the administrator--this reminds me of wall street ceos bankrupting their companies and then they have the chutzpah to ask for a 10 million dollar bonus and severance pay.
I've worked this past summer for a yeshivah camp and when the administrator refused to pay me (succos time!! for the summer) telling me this garbage about no money (when his salary/and or embezzlement is paying for his Lexus LS430) i just went to the yeshiva accountant and said if i don't get a check NOW i'm going to bais din today. what do you know i got the check, but there are still tens of other bachurim who never got a check from their summer job as well as married rebbeim with families who don't see their check until shavous no exaggeration.

How do you know that the administrators are getting paid? I'm an administrator and my salary stops before my teachers' whenever we have a real crunch!

31

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:26 AM cheshboni Says:

I smell a RAT. A major auding firm (non heimish) should be brought in to check the books. Any monkey business on the part of the muckity-mucky should be brought to light and criminal charges should be filed.

32

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:26 AM The Truth Says:

Perhaps someone should start actually working, rather than just 'fundraising'.

33

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:22 AM Anonymous Says:

I heard from family in Lakewood that the teachers are still owed salary from LAST year. If that's the case, this strike is long overdue. The teachers have families to support too, and it's not fair to them. Are they slaves that they should show up to work every day without pay?

34

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:40 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

Maybe I'm wrong, but don't you think the school would pay if they had the money? What is a strike going to accomplish?

unfortunately teachers are the last on a long list of bills to pay. At one school (which I left due to a din torah of nonpayment) we were told this was an avodas hakodesh and we should consider it chesed till we get paid. Iexplainedthat the grocer, gas bill, tuition committees for my 6 children, electric bill, mortgage, etc. do not accept chesed as their payments and G'machim will not back unsecured loans to teachers since they know we won't get paid for months on end!!

35

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

guess what Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L isnot striking

36

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:37 AM glatekup Says:

There aren't many people that are rodef shalom as Reb shmuel kamenetsky. Obviously, if he felt that there was a need to strike then all these comments are worthless.

37

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:35 AM zelig Says:

If some men are capable of learning in kolel, they should be capable of home scho
oling their children. What greater mitzvah is there than teaching your children.Then they wouldnt have to pay tuition and would not over tax the school system.

38

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:35 AM reply to #26 Says:

Your comment is an exellent example of how messed-up the mentality is in lakewood! END KOLLEL FOR AVERAGE YUNGERLIET NOW!!! Kollel is only for someone who wants to learn for life, become a dayan, become a magid shiur, etc.

39

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:34 AM fed up Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

how dare you say that............. who you fooling with your name KOLLELMAN thats exactly your stupid hashkafa lets go collecting from the working ppl while you sit on your tuchus and drink coffee all day and i am sure u have a rich shver and ur wife works with no salary because its lshem shomayim..... and btw if ur a kollelman u shouldnt be on the internet secondly shouldnt u be learning oh i am sure u go @ 9 and ur wife sees u going then u come back home to go on the internet shame on u

40

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:33 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

Not only is the admin getting paid but the school will be having a chinese auction soon like every year. THIS IS ABOUT POLOTICS NOT ABOUT MONEY OR SCHOOL SUPPLIES.

How does the school having a Chinese Auction next week prove anything??? It is a FUND RAISER.

41

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:32 AM Anonymous Says:

Do those teachers have any jobs ?.........Back to work again!

42

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:32 AM Big Masmid Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

here is your answer: if Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L would be a teacher in Bais Faiga she would not be striking but the fact is that she is not teaching there so here you go.

43

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:47 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

Why dont you and your wife become the principles of a new school and just refuse payment because after all the chinuch habanos are more important than your pay check

44

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:46 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #33  
Anonymous Says:

I heard from family in Lakewood that the teachers are still owed salary from LAST year. If that's the case, this strike is long overdue. The teachers have families to support too, and it's not fair to them. Are they slaves that they should show up to work every day without pay?

At least some people think they are slaves. Read comment #26.

45

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:45 AM learner Says:

The Kolel system is the problem. We teach these men to avoid responsibilities for years and expect everything to be done for them. This here is the result of the system. 1800 girls are out of school and its not their problem.

Did you hear of one Kolel Yungerman volunteering to teach the classes during the strike. I think not. Its below their dignity. Better to let the girls run wild. Shame on youy.

46

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

You mean the lesson that even teachers are human and cannot live on air? That they also have to feed thier kids real food? That the students' parents have to figure out how to live on less or raise more if they are machshiv chinuch more than whatever luxury they might otherwise enjoy?
That it is assur to hire people if you cannot pay them?

That reb Yoel ZTZK''L did not put on his teffillin on pay day until he had heard from every Stmar mosad that they could cover the teachers' paychecks?
Oh, that would be terrible chinuch!!!

47

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

Who is to pay for the teachers' babysitter while she is teaching, Also her rent and other expenses while her husband is sitting in kollel not earning any money? Teachers and rebbeim should be the first to be paid. We want them to do a good job without worring how the bills will get paid. Our children are intrusted in their care most of the day.

48

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:51 AM Anonymous Says:

Whoa! It didn't take much to bring out the anti-kollel, anti-lakewood crowd today!

49

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:50 AM azh Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

Rebbetzin S schenirer knew exactly what she was getting into. These teachers had contracts.
Anyone who volunteers the teacher's chessed is a 'tzaddik oif yenem's cheshbon'.

50

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
reply to #26 Says:

Your comment is an exellent example of how messed-up the mentality is in lakewood! END KOLLEL FOR AVERAGE YUNGERLIET NOW!!! Kollel is only for someone who wants to learn for life, become a dayan, become a magid shiur, etc.

I think #26 is as anti-kollel as anyone and was looking for exactly your reaction.

51

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:52 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
glatekup Says:

There aren't many people that are rodef shalom as Reb shmuel kamenetsky. Obviously, if he felt that there was a need to strike then all these comments are worthless.

Yeah, but if you think of it that way there is not as much fun to be had knocking the teachers.

52

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:52 AM Loshon Hora Says:

Does anyone know this administrator?
Are they aware that him, his spouse & children sit up through the nights working for the mosdos, from their kitchen table?
Do you know how many parents [especially of dysfunctional homes & marriages] have paid nothing for years?
Do you know how they have given their lives litterally to the mosdos, that disgruntful parents cross the road when they see him?
Have any of you parents ever thought of showing some hakoras hatov, some respect, decentcy to someoone who has put himself out years to run a mosod of such magnitude sole handed & hearted?
You may not hold of his method, but have you dipped a finger in cold water for the mosod other than loshon Hora?
How about instead of a strike, making a dinner on behalf of the mosod & presenting him with a hakoras Hatov award? wouldn't that feel & work better?
Obviously it is much easier to critisize from an armchair than to praise on a platform.
Of course no to minds think alike, and differences will occur, but come on so much critisism, for such good service & no praise?

53

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:53 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #40  
Anonymous Says:

How does the school having a Chinese Auction next week prove anything??? It is a FUND RAISER.

a fund raiser isnt free even if things are dontaed , plenty are not . Bottom line teachers should get paid before blowing money on a chinesse auction.

54

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:02 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #52  
Loshon Hora Says:

Does anyone know this administrator?
Are they aware that him, his spouse & children sit up through the nights working for the mosdos, from their kitchen table?
Do you know how many parents [especially of dysfunctional homes & marriages] have paid nothing for years?
Do you know how they have given their lives litterally to the mosdos, that disgruntful parents cross the road when they see him?
Have any of you parents ever thought of showing some hakoras hatov, some respect, decentcy to someoone who has put himself out years to run a mosod of such magnitude sole handed & hearted?
You may not hold of his method, but have you dipped a finger in cold water for the mosod other than loshon Hora?
How about instead of a strike, making a dinner on behalf of the mosod & presenting him with a hakoras Hatov award? wouldn't that feel & work better?
Obviously it is much easier to critisize from an armchair than to praise on a platform.
Of course no to minds think alike, and differences will occur, but come on so much critisism, for such good service & no praise?

And that is why I have to pay way more than I can afford, in order for my daughter to sit at home?

55

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:01 AM glatekup Says:

Reply to #52  
Loshon Hora Says:

Does anyone know this administrator?
Are they aware that him, his spouse & children sit up through the nights working for the mosdos, from their kitchen table?
Do you know how many parents [especially of dysfunctional homes & marriages] have paid nothing for years?
Do you know how they have given their lives litterally to the mosdos, that disgruntful parents cross the road when they see him?
Have any of you parents ever thought of showing some hakoras hatov, some respect, decentcy to someoone who has put himself out years to run a mosod of such magnitude sole handed & hearted?
You may not hold of his method, but have you dipped a finger in cold water for the mosod other than loshon Hora?
How about instead of a strike, making a dinner on behalf of the mosod & presenting him with a hakoras Hatov award? wouldn't that feel & work better?
Obviously it is much easier to critisize from an armchair than to praise on a platform.
Of course no to minds think alike, and differences will occur, but come on so much critisism, for such good service & no praise?

I don't think anyone does not have hakoras hatov to rabbi m. But it is time to move on.

56

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:59 AM SICK & TIRED Says:

Don't be fooled.................It's a fundraising gimmick they are trying to pull, let them get their heads out of their a$$e$ and they will be fine. Just a little while ago they fired the BEST damn fundraiser in the industry and said thanks for all your contacts NOW GO TO HELL!!!!! So when word got out most of the "contacts" returned the favor and told them where to go! Don't get me wrong Lakewood may be a wonderful place but when you crowd too many egos in one room and each one thinks he is better than god then you end up with results like this. Stop worrying about the damn barcodes and freezers and start worrying about more importantissues, and most important don't ever slap the hand that feeds you it will always come back to slap you in the a$$.

57

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:58 AM Anonymous Says:

My daughter is in a Bais Yaakov (not in Lakewood) staffed by many such noshim tzidkoni'os who commute for over an hour (in car pools) to work for pitifully small compensation and do it with such simcha and z'rizus I am convinced that they are one of the great zechusim of klal yisroel in this generation.

Had klal yisroel had such teachers in the first half of this century we would not have lost 1% of the children who went off the derech.

To malign them is mamash throwing stones at the mekor of kedushah bizman hazeh.

58

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:55 AM Charlie Hall Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

The way to do it. What kind of Chutzpah is it not to pay teachers? Do they not have to pay the same bills, etc., as the administrators?

I thought that it was a chiyuv from the Torah to pay employees on time!

59

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:09 AM Lyda Lyda Says:

I, too, was not accepted into Bais Faiga because I work. Looking at what is happening now, I can only thank Hashem that my child was placed into a school which is not being brought down by the Admin.
I highly doubt the people in charge learns more than I do, either. But hey, I work, and therefore my children are evil and deserving of shame.

Thankfully, my integrity would never allow me to act in such a vile and menuveldike manner. The culprit responsible for this will have a great deal to explain in shomayim for the bitul torah he brought upon the people of Lakewood today. But then again, seeing the glib manner with which these people (or person) has regarded roshei teshiva for decades, one can hardly assume he cares.

Shame on those responsible.

60

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:06 AM GWB Says:

Reply to #52  
Loshon Hora Says:

Does anyone know this administrator?
Are they aware that him, his spouse & children sit up through the nights working for the mosdos, from their kitchen table?
Do you know how many parents [especially of dysfunctional homes & marriages] have paid nothing for years?
Do you know how they have given their lives litterally to the mosdos, that disgruntful parents cross the road when they see him?
Have any of you parents ever thought of showing some hakoras hatov, some respect, decentcy to someoone who has put himself out years to run a mosod of such magnitude sole handed & hearted?
You may not hold of his method, but have you dipped a finger in cold water for the mosod other than loshon Hora?
How about instead of a strike, making a dinner on behalf of the mosod & presenting him with a hakoras Hatov award? wouldn't that feel & work better?
Obviously it is much easier to critisize from an armchair than to praise on a platform.
Of course no to minds think alike, and differences will occur, but come on so much critisism, for such good service & no praise?

...and Sadam Hussein (l'havdil) did a great job providing electricity and crime protection in Iraq. You could do a thousand things right and still make one big mistake.

61

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:06 AM this sounds odd Says:

Reply to #19  
Anonymous Says:

For the next week grades 6-8 will be held in the ocean county mall next to macys

I am puzzled by the decision to hold school in a mall. Is it a joke or does the school who has no money really intend to rent retail space to hold school when the actual building is not the problem? Of course, if there really is no school, lots of girls can head to the mall for something to do. Truancy officials love finding kids that age in malls. While there might be volunteers who want to organize learning for the girls, why would they use a mall?

62

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:04 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #53  
Anonymous Says:

a fund raiser isnt free even if things are dontaed , plenty are not . Bottom line teachers should get paid before blowing money on a chinesse auction.

Are you stupid or are yo one of the six year olds locked out of school r"l.

Money spent on a Chinese Auction comes back many times over.

If you are so concerned, call the school and donate your goods and services to bring down the cost of the auction and then go shlep all your friends to spend the money you were going to spend on chanukah gelts and parties at the Chinese Auction. And if you win a cash prize donate it back to the school.

Tell your kids you gave thier chanukah gelt to keep a makom torah open and to support the best people of our generation.

It wouldn't be such a bad chinuch for your kids (or for you, from what I read).

63

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:27 AM JustCurious Says:

This comment made me wonder
I, too, was not accepted into Bais Faiga because I work. Looking at what is happening now, I can only thank Hashem that my child was placed into a school which is not being brought down by the Admin.


Who do they accept? Kollel people? If so how do they get paid? I would think a regular school would want a mixture of both so the balie batim can pay and maybe a little more then their child costs so the kollel people can get a break on the tuition. So how is this institution running?

64

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:47 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #63  
JustCurious Says:

This comment made me wonder
I, too, was not accepted into Bais Faiga because I work. Looking at what is happening now, I can only thank Hashem that my child was placed into a school which is not being brought down by the Admin.


Who do they accept? Kollel people? If so how do they get paid? I would think a regular school would want a mixture of both so the balie batim can pay and maybe a little more then their child costs so the kollel people can get a break on the tuition. So how is this institution running?

These people are facing a mental block caused by their extremist devotion to the Kolel ideology. They have lost the ability to reason. Give it up...they are a lost cause. They would rather destroy a yeshiva that listen to reason.

65

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:45 AM Jacob Says:

"Meager salaries" How offensive! Where's the syate dishmaye?! Don't the teachers know that the "meager salaries" come from they same Hashem that they indoctrinate? What kind of message does this send the children? The hanhala should do as President Reagan did with the air traffic controllers strike in 1981. They should all be fired and their kids should be banished from all schools in shame. New yoirei shomayim teachers should be hired in their place. Shame on them.

66

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:37 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
mark Says:

LETS BE REALITIC THE KOLLEL DAYS ARE OVER

If you really want to be realistic, then I'm afraid that stockbrokers, many banking jobs, computer technicians jobs, etc., etc., are also over. In fact, I read that many of them are back in Kolel.

67

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:33 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #58  
Charlie Hall Says:

I thought that it was a chiyuv from the Torah to pay employees on time!

These guys have different standards. They report to a higher authority.($$$$$$)

68

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:23 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

Enough of this "oy oy" where is their dedication. All of this trouble stems from parents who won't get at job so they can pay for their daughters' school tuition and assume that some other hard working parents will pick up the tab for them. The parents of these girls--both fathers and mothers--should go out, get a job even it means washing dishes or scrubbing floors-- so that they can pay the tuition and the school can pay the teachers a living wage. To sit in the bes medrash learning while oblivious to the suffering your selfish behavior is causing for others is the ultimate chilul hashem. Once and for all, let us take responsibility for our own families and supporting our own yehsivot and stop the schneuring from others. The holy men and women who work in these schools deserve our support.

69

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:23 AM brooke Says:

wow this is excellent chinuch for the girls! my niece came home saying that she has no school because the teachers are fighting. why can't the teachers act like adults and resolve the issue without getting the children involved?????

70

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:24 AM Joel Says:

Reply to #18  
Anonymous Says:

here are the facts as they stand

bais faiga despite the current economic situation is not in the red the problem is that the current Administrator is diverting funds from bais faiga to the lakewood cheder boys school ,thus denying much needed funds and resources to bais faiga.this jas been going on for a while and it was just discovered that the lakewood cheder has a deficit of over ten million dollars there is no fundraising at all and this administrator is the only one in control ,The problem is that there is a core group of parents that support him because he dosent take wvreyone in to the school which gives them a holier than though attitude.
he refused to pay for much needed staff for bais faiga which the current principle and the roshei yeshivos have took upon themselves to pay these salaries.
this is not just a strike its a demonstration of Kavod hatorah for the roshei yeshiva and for the ziknei hador in whose leadership we follow.

Please leave these Roshei Yeshivos out of this garbage.
This a perfect example of what Lakewood is all about, KUVID!! A buch of fonies! All you hear them say is the Chasidim......
Let them eat their own......

71

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:19 AM BoroParkTeacher Says:

As a Teacher in Heimishe Mosad, We are also not getting paid, it is now exactly 6 months, How long will it take you think that we too will go out in a strike, its not the only school its now almost every other school in boro park and Monsey, some schools will close down very soon, there is no solution as I have heard, administrators will squeeze out teachers with Low/No Pay as much as they can, eventually they will leave with no place to go but better not to work then get paid nothing. The consequences is horrible for the teachers and students, can you imagine hundreds or thousands of girls on the street with no school? and very soon after that the situation will spill over to the Cheders and Yeshivas HASHEM YAZOR

72

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:27 AM Anonymous Says:

PEOPLE WAKE UP GET JOBS, START COMPANIES, MAKE KESSEF, ITS NOT A INYAN TO SIT IN KOLEL ALL DAY. IF YOU WANT TO LEARN, WAKE UP 5:30AM (LIKE I DO) LEARN A DAF AND WHEN YOU COME HOME YOU CAN LEARN. THIS KOLEL IS NOT FOR EVERYONE THEY SHOULD HAVE A MINYAN OF KOLLEL PEOPLE AND THATS ALL. WHEN I GOT MARRIED MY WIFE WANTED ME TO GOTO KOLLEL, LIKE SHE WAS TAUGHT IN BAIS YAAKOV. I PROTESTED THAT ITS NOT THE RIGHT WAY. TODAY MY WIFES IS SO GRATFUL I WAS STUBORN, B"H MY WIFE BUYS A NEW SHAITEL EVERY YEAR, (LOL) AND WE HAVE ALL BESHEFA. AND BTW I WAS AND I AM KOLEL MATERIAL.

73

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:17 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #62  
Anonymous Says:

Are you stupid or are yo one of the six year olds locked out of school r"l.

Money spent on a Chinese Auction comes back many times over.

If you are so concerned, call the school and donate your goods and services to bring down the cost of the auction and then go shlep all your friends to spend the money you were going to spend on chanukah gelts and parties at the Chinese Auction. And if you win a cash prize donate it back to the school.

Tell your kids you gave thier chanukah gelt to keep a makom torah open and to support the best people of our generation.

It wouldn't be such a bad chinuch for your kids (or for you, from what I read).

I WILL NEVER GIVE THEM A CENT WITH THIER HOLIER THEN THOU ADDITUDE.

74

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:17 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #52  
Loshon Hora Says:

Does anyone know this administrator?
Are they aware that him, his spouse & children sit up through the nights working for the mosdos, from their kitchen table?
Do you know how many parents [especially of dysfunctional homes & marriages] have paid nothing for years?
Do you know how they have given their lives litterally to the mosdos, that disgruntful parents cross the road when they see him?
Have any of you parents ever thought of showing some hakoras hatov, some respect, decentcy to someoone who has put himself out years to run a mosod of such magnitude sole handed & hearted?
You may not hold of his method, but have you dipped a finger in cold water for the mosod other than loshon Hora?
How about instead of a strike, making a dinner on behalf of the mosod & presenting him with a hakoras Hatov award? wouldn't that feel & work better?
Obviously it is much easier to critisize from an armchair than to praise on a platform.
Of course no to minds think alike, and differences will occur, but come on so much critisism, for such good service & no praise?

How do you know they work out of there dining room table?

Are you there when they do it? You must be one his crony’s.

Yes he has worked tirelessly to make sure the mosed runs, but not leshem shomayim, he has gotten a salary for that, and the fact is that he was offered 1 million dollars to leave, you know what his response was? I want 2 million and I will go.

And what right does he have treating people the way he was? He went against the rosh hayishvahs when it came to the school situation. One of the askonim said, the mashgiach said once, “what can I do if he does not listen, I asked him to do things and he just does what he feels like”

So take that and shove it, You idiot.

He does not want working people in his school, but how does he expect to pay for all the bills?

He only wants learning people; well guess what, there are working people that learn more than he does.

Oh one last thing, NO I am NOT a parent that got refused from this school, I don’t even have girls.

75

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
mark Says:

LETS BE REALITIC THE KOLLEL DAYS ARE OVER

chas vsholom how can you say that

76

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:13 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #56  
SICK & TIRED Says:

Don't be fooled.................It's a fundraising gimmick they are trying to pull, let them get their heads out of their a$$e$ and they will be fine. Just a little while ago they fired the BEST damn fundraiser in the industry and said thanks for all your contacts NOW GO TO HELL!!!!! So when word got out most of the "contacts" returned the favor and told them where to go! Don't get me wrong Lakewood may be a wonderful place but when you crowd too many egos in one room and each one thinks he is better than god then you end up with results like this. Stop worrying about the damn barcodes and freezers and start worrying about more importantissues, and most important don't ever slap the hand that feeds you it will always come back to slap you in the a$$.

The Rabbis have no issues in letting the girls go wild because of school closing and they certainly have no issues in allowing child molesters and enablers to move into town and even are mechabed them . What a backwards town .

77

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:02 AM learner Says:

Reply to #48  
Anonymous Says:

Whoa! It didn't take much to bring out the anti-kollel, anti-lakewood crowd today!

It didnt require much proof. The current situation proves the failure of the Kolel system as it exists today. It needs revamping, only qualified men able to pass regularly scheduled exams that meet high standards be allowed to participate. All others GO HOME.

78

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:55 AM Anonymous Says:

how did they plan to pay for the mosdos when they only accepted kollel yungerlet with no saleries??

79

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:53 AM Dovid Berkowitz Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

How can you keep a school for 1800 students going if no one pays tuition?

Everyone is required to pay a minimum tuition. I pay tuition for my daughters to attend, please keep these outrageous and unsubstantiated comments to yourself.

80

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:53 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #65  
Jacob Says:

"Meager salaries" How offensive! Where's the syate dishmaye?! Don't the teachers know that the "meager salaries" come from they same Hashem that they indoctrinate? What kind of message does this send the children? The hanhala should do as President Reagan did with the air traffic controllers strike in 1981. They should all be fired and their kids should be banished from all schools in shame. New yoirei shomayim teachers should be hired in their place. Shame on them.

Another one ready willing and able to be moser nefesh auf yenem's cheshbon.

81

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:51 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #52  
Loshon Hora Says:

Does anyone know this administrator?
Are they aware that him, his spouse & children sit up through the nights working for the mosdos, from their kitchen table?
Do you know how many parents [especially of dysfunctional homes & marriages] have paid nothing for years?
Do you know how they have given their lives litterally to the mosdos, that disgruntful parents cross the road when they see him?
Have any of you parents ever thought of showing some hakoras hatov, some respect, decentcy to someoone who has put himself out years to run a mosod of such magnitude sole handed & hearted?
You may not hold of his method, but have you dipped a finger in cold water for the mosod other than loshon Hora?
How about instead of a strike, making a dinner on behalf of the mosod & presenting him with a hakoras Hatov award? wouldn't that feel & work better?
Obviously it is much easier to critisize from an armchair than to praise on a platform.
Of course no to minds think alike, and differences will occur, but come on so much critisism, for such good service & no praise?

if it is true that the administrator is driving a lexus, that is something that has to be addressed. When his salary is being collected thru donations and the teachers are not getting paid, he should be driving a simple, less expensive car. If his needs are to be driving a luxury car, then he has to be in another line of work.

82

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:59 AM Anonymous Says:

In the last great financial meltdown klal yisroel was tested on shemiras shabbos and b"h many of us can point to parents and grandparents who passed the test even when it meant missing meals and stooping to the lowest jobs to put one meal a day in thier children's mouth.

Perhaps this is the test of our times. A time we can show how much we value torah & chinuch.

some people here better hope that is not the case because they are proudly failing the test.

83

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #61  
this sounds odd Says:

I am puzzled by the decision to hold school in a mall. Is it a joke or does the school who has no money really intend to rent retail space to hold school when the actual building is not the problem? Of course, if there really is no school, lots of girls can head to the mall for something to do. Truancy officials love finding kids that age in malls. While there might be volunteers who want to organize learning for the girls, why would they use a mall?

Of course its a joke. where is your sense of humor?

84

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #77  
learner Says:

It didnt require much proof. The current situation proves the failure of the Kolel system as it exists today. It needs revamping, only qualified men able to pass regularly scheduled exams that meet high standards be allowed to participate. All others GO HOME.

And let me take a wild guess.

You just happen to know the criteria to be used in deciding who is worth supporting and who isn't.

85

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #56  
SICK & TIRED Says:

Don't be fooled.................It's a fundraising gimmick they are trying to pull, let them get their heads out of their a$$e$ and they will be fine. Just a little while ago they fired the BEST damn fundraiser in the industry and said thanks for all your contacts NOW GO TO HELL!!!!! So when word got out most of the "contacts" returned the favor and told them where to go! Don't get me wrong Lakewood may be a wonderful place but when you crowd too many egos in one room and each one thinks he is better than god then you end up with results like this. Stop worrying about the damn barcodes and freezers and start worrying about more importantissues, and most important don't ever slap the hand that feeds you it will always come back to slap you in the a$$.

Please watch your language!

86

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #85  
Anonymous Says:

Please watch your language!

Barcodes and freezers???

87

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:25 PM REB NOACH Says:

YOU MAY ALL COME TO CROWN HEIGHTS AND SEND YOUR KIDS TO A GOOD SCHOOL THAT HAS BEEN PAYING VERY NICE SALARIES ON TIME FOR YEARS!!!!!!! The school has over 2000 kinderlach that learn and there parents dont sit in a kolel all day smoking and talking bad about others........ 6 days a week we toil and then shabbos comes... Shaises Yamim Taavod ....

Go Bais Rivkah!!!!!!!!!!!!

88

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:22 PM mkarpas Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.


Kollelman

It seems that you did not learn much jewish history in your years in cheder,
yeshiva and kollel

Sarah Schneirer Zatsal was not a true Rebbitzin

She was a spinster (never married) and
did not have to work to support her kollelman prince and her
many children,

89

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:22 PM Joseph Says:

Good. Let both Bais Faiga and the Cheder suffer.

They wanted to be the most "exclusive" school in Lakewood and give an extremely hard time to people to get their kids in (I'm not talking about Brooklyn people who moved here a few years ago, I'm talking about sincere, ehrliche, Lakewood baale batim who've been here for quite a while). Well, let their "cream of the crop" take care of them NOW.

90

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Lakewood Bais Din led by Rabbi Forcheimer does not exist Rabbi Forcheimer is a highly respected "top lefel" Rabbi but has nothing to do with Bais Din issues

91

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
Anonymous Says:

of couse no one has the money to pay teachers. lakewood is a community founded on Tzedakah. Recesession=rich people losing money= lakewood having no money=people learning in kollel or being supported by wife's whom are secretaries are going to have less than they did before. Maybe they should have learned some sort of trade, just in case a situation like this arises, and they are unable to be supported by others due to the economy.

Yes - failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

92

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:40 PM A Says:

Reply to #88  
mkarpas Says:


Kollelman

It seems that you did not learn much jewish history in your years in cheder,
yeshiva and kollel

Sarah Schneirer Zatsal was not a true Rebbitzin

She was a spinster (never married) and
did not have to work to support her kollelman prince and her
many children,

Oops, I should have read further before commenting (earlier). Thanks for the clarification, mkarpas.

94

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #88  
mkarpas Says:


Kollelman

It seems that you did not learn much jewish history in your years in cheder,
yeshiva and kollel

Sarah Schneirer Zatsal was not a true Rebbitzin

She was a spinster (never married) and
did not have to work to support her kollelman prince and her
many children,

wrong shneirer was actually a divorcee (her husband felt she was to tough for a proper jewish woman)

95

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #18  
Anonymous Says:

here are the facts as they stand

bais faiga despite the current economic situation is not in the red the problem is that the current Administrator is diverting funds from bais faiga to the lakewood cheder boys school ,thus denying much needed funds and resources to bais faiga.this jas been going on for a while and it was just discovered that the lakewood cheder has a deficit of over ten million dollars there is no fundraising at all and this administrator is the only one in control ,The problem is that there is a core group of parents that support him because he dosent take wvreyone in to the school which gives them a holier than though attitude.
he refused to pay for much needed staff for bais faiga which the current principle and the roshei yeshivos have took upon themselves to pay these salaries.
this is not just a strike its a demonstration of Kavod hatorah for the roshei yeshiva and for the ziknei hador in whose leadership we follow.

I guess most of the people writing have no experience in administration.As one who does ,in the yeshiva world, let me say that i can't understand how bais faiga remained open till now hwen less than 47% percent pay tuition there is bound to be a shortfall maybe it's time for the lakewood community to start putting pressure on individuals who maybe are not learning the way they should

96

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:52 PM YENTA PESHA Says:

MAYBE THEY WILL GET PAID FOR STRIKING!!!MAYBE THEY WILL STRIKE A GOLD MINE!!!!

97

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

the teachers have tolerated the situation for far too long they are brilliant enough to enter any profession they want but they decided to go into chinuch for relatively meager salaries with no benefit a toll collector makes far more with no agmas nefesh plus benefits and retirement and job security it is agreat messirus nefesh to teach espescially with all the gashmius we are surronded with

98

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:39 PM Observer Says:

Reply to #65  
Jacob Says:

"Meager salaries" How offensive! Where's the syate dishmaye?! Don't the teachers know that the "meager salaries" come from they same Hashem that they indoctrinate? What kind of message does this send the children? The hanhala should do as President Reagan did with the air traffic controllers strike in 1981. They should all be fired and their kids should be banished from all schools in shame. New yoirei shomayim teachers should be hired in their place. Shame on them.

Your comment is so idiotic, it's incomprehensible. Your concept of being a Ma'amin is woefully confused with being a chasid Shoteh. Please, find a competent Rav and ask some Hashkafa questions before you go through life at a complete loss.

99

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:38 PM kollel@risk Says:

WELL WELL, MAYBE SITTING & SUPPORT BY SHVER IS ABOUT TO END. WHAT HASHGACHA, TEACHERS TO SUPPORT HUSBANDS WHO SUPPORT BABYSITTERS WHO SUPPORT THE SYSTEM.
THE SYSTEM STINKS STINKS & WHEN IT STINKS IT STINKS FROM THE TOP. EVERYONE NEEDS TO GET PAID. LIFE IS VERY VERY EXPENSIVE, IT IS TIME TO ABOLISH KOLLE. GET A JOB GO TO WORK. DO WHAT THE PREVIOUS GENERATION DID. WORK GO TO A SHIUR, LIFE THE LIFE OF TORAH ALL DAY. BE EHRLICH, COMPROMISE ON LUXURIES.
WE HAVE BEEN LIVING ON TOO HIGH STANDARD. THERE SHOULD BE NO LUXURY CARS, NO FANCY HOMES. MOTHERS SHOULD BRING UP THE CHILDREN NO GOYTES. JUST GO BACK TO SIMPLE LIFE. TEACHERS WILL BE PAID ,THE HANHALA SHOULD MEET & EXPEL ANY STUDENT WHOSE PARENTS DRIVE A MERCEDES, ETC

100

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #90  
Anonymous Says:

Lakewood Bais Din led by Rabbi Forcheimer does not exist Rabbi Forcheimer is a highly respected "top lefel" Rabbi but has nothing to do with Bais Din issues

What on earth is a 'top lefel rabbi'???

101

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #87  
REB NOACH Says:

YOU MAY ALL COME TO CROWN HEIGHTS AND SEND YOUR KIDS TO A GOOD SCHOOL THAT HAS BEEN PAYING VERY NICE SALARIES ON TIME FOR YEARS!!!!!!! The school has over 2000 kinderlach that learn and there parents dont sit in a kolel all day smoking and talking bad about others........ 6 days a week we toil and then shabbos comes... Shaises Yamim Taavod ....

Go Bais Rivkah!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a nice backhanded way to be motzi la'az on the entire Lakewood kollel!

102

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #83  
Anonymous Says:

Of course its a joke. where is your sense of humor?

she never had any!

103

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:30 PM Linguist Says:

#52 (Loshon Hora): "Disgruntful" is one of the best words I've heard in a while; thanks for a good laugh on a rough day.

104

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:29 PM Loshon Hora Says:

I am not one of his cronys, I am unfortunatly childless,Yes I have seen his kitchen table.
As for the million did you see the contract, & the cash to back it? You know the answer to that.
As for listening to the Roshei Yeshiva & mashgiach, for one how do you know if he listens or not?
For two he knows a lot more about the moisod & ho wto run it successfully for so many years than they will ever know, ask they will all agree.
From my knowledge one of R' Malkiel's drivers asked him about the situation,his answer was I am not involved, and don't want to get involved.
There is a lot of Loshon Hora & motzei shem ra on the streets, & a great lack of menschlichkeit, and hakoras hatov out there.
Do I like all of M's way? no, but one thing I do know, I could never of done half as good as him,and all the rabonim & roshei Yeshiva feel the same, even if they don't say it.
As a total outsider being childless, and watching, I agree he has made mistakes, and is far from perfect, he will continue to make mistakes, but no one will do better.
Don't aggrevate & antagonize, show hakoras hatov, & then if you feel, it is time for a replacement, don't fight & pull the rug out from under his feet, thank him deal with him, & part nicely.
Make a dinner award him, & place a thank you plaque in all buildings for him, and compensate him as he deserves.
If you just want to put another person in, because of his anncesstory, & for that you kill & damn someone else, who has given his & his family's lives away for the Mosod then think twice.

105

 Dec 09, 2008 at 12:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #56  
SICK & TIRED Says:

Don't be fooled.................It's a fundraising gimmick they are trying to pull, let them get their heads out of their a$$e$ and they will be fine. Just a little while ago they fired the BEST damn fundraiser in the industry and said thanks for all your contacts NOW GO TO HELL!!!!! So when word got out most of the "contacts" returned the favor and told them where to go! Don't get me wrong Lakewood may be a wonderful place but when you crowd too many egos in one room and each one thinks he is better than god then you end up with results like this. Stop worrying about the damn barcodes and freezers and start worrying about more importantissues, and most important don't ever slap the hand that feeds you it will always come back to slap you in the a$$.

#56 watch you language please.

106

 Dec 09, 2008 at 01:36 PM Bais Faiga parent Says:

Reply to #52  
Loshon Hora Says:

Does anyone know this administrator?
Are they aware that him, his spouse & children sit up through the nights working for the mosdos, from their kitchen table?
Do you know how many parents [especially of dysfunctional homes & marriages] have paid nothing for years?
Do you know how they have given their lives litterally to the mosdos, that disgruntful parents cross the road when they see him?
Have any of you parents ever thought of showing some hakoras hatov, some respect, decentcy to someoone who has put himself out years to run a mosod of such magnitude sole handed & hearted?
You may not hold of his method, but have you dipped a finger in cold water for the mosod other than loshon Hora?
How about instead of a strike, making a dinner on behalf of the mosod & presenting him with a hakoras Hatov award? wouldn't that feel & work better?
Obviously it is much easier to critisize from an armchair than to praise on a platform.
Of course no to minds think alike, and differences will occur, but come on so much critisism, for such good service & no praise?

well put you are s/o that knows that this is not as simple as teachers not getting paid

107

 Dec 09, 2008 at 01:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

How many of the husbands of these teachers are learning in kollel? Where is their bread and butter supposed to come from, aside from them being able to pay their bills?

108

 Dec 09, 2008 at 01:21 PM Anonymous Says:

i love all the hate lakewood guys and gals popping out of the woodwork this has nothing to do with kollel

75% of parents are paying a few thausand a year ,its the administrater who is diverting the monney to the boys school for years

bais faiga on its awn is a very profitable enterprise because the the teachers salary are pennies

109

 Dec 09, 2008 at 01:18 PM aaron kotler Says:

Rabosai, enough!!

110

 Dec 09, 2008 at 01:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Just a thought...maybe the parents should get a job and start paying tuition?

I know thats just crazy talk.

111

 Dec 09, 2008 at 01:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #65  
Jacob Says:

"Meager salaries" How offensive! Where's the syate dishmaye?! Don't the teachers know that the "meager salaries" come from they same Hashem that they indoctrinate? What kind of message does this send the children? The hanhala should do as President Reagan did with the air traffic controllers strike in 1981. They should all be fired and their kids should be banished from all schools in shame. New yoirei shomayim teachers should be hired in their place. Shame on them.

hishtadlus and yiraas shamayim are required by so is the sechar of the eved and in this ase it is an eved ivri as well. Teachers strike as a last resort and only with the approval of daas hatorah while so many comment without any daas at all! why would someone else want a job at a low salary, not on time and constantly needs hours of unpaid labor at home! it is only with mesirat nefesh that teachers work in the first second and third place! I know because I am teaching 28 years and I love every labor intensive minute of it but if I did not get paid I WOULD STAY HOME!!!

112

 Dec 09, 2008 at 01:39 PM Anonymous Says:

No one has the right to accuse teachers of not being “lesheim shomayim” because they expect a salary. For the most part, every teacher went to work to support her husband so that he can sit in kollel and learn without earning any income. If we wish to trace this back to the roots, the problem does not lie with the economy, but with the lifestyle that deserves to be re-evaluated that every bochur needs to be a “learning boy” that should be supported through financially unproductive years of kollel. Furthermore, none of these bochurim should receive any guidance towards a career, as anyone should be able to consider himself “klai kodesh” – a future rosh yeshiva, magid shuir, posek, etc.

If one creates a community founded on such a system, the only support for school can be fundraising – which will certainly be impacted by the economy and other market conditions. With all of our wonderful ideas about Torah, a community needs to also establish itself with sustenance. The same mishna states openly – “Im ein kemach-ain Torah, and Im ein Torah ein kemach.” Both are pillars of our existence. It would be as criminal to eliminate our Zevuluns just to have more Yissochors. We finally have a few leaders that understand this. Our system needs to be revamped, and we need direction from gedolim to accomplish this.

113

 Dec 09, 2008 at 02:07 PM JUST MY 2 CENTS Says:

The only way this is going to end is for the state to put a freeze on all the schools assets including all the real estate they own. ,along with the admins assets.

114

 Dec 09, 2008 at 02:02 PM Anonymous Says:

The world stands on three things:
Torah - the husband sits in Kollel,
Avodah - the wife works and raises the kinderleich,
Gmilus Chassadim - the parents support them.

115

 Dec 09, 2008 at 02:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Can anyone explain the logic of diverting funds from the girls division to the boys if t is indeed under the same admin? something smell unkosher . We should bring in a 3rd party auditor right away before its too late .

116

 Dec 09, 2008 at 01:59 PM Anonymous Says:

I'm sorry that you did not get your child into the school, but there is a very large percentage of working parents in the school, including myself.
In all the years, I was never made to feel like a second class citizen because I work, neither in the school system or in the greater Lakewood community.

117

 Dec 09, 2008 at 01:52 PM Fotheringay-Phipps Says:

You guys are all misunderstanding the story.

There have been issues between the overall administrator for the entire Cheder/Bais Faiga system and the principal of the BF for years and years. Without going into the details of exactly what the issues are (some of which I am not familiar with) as a practical matter the crux of the issue is the extent to which the principal takes direction from this administrator. Technically he is her boss, but while he is universally considered a supremely capable administrator, he is not - to my knowledge - a professional educator, and in addition, she has been principal of BF for longer than he's been there. This situation has been simmering for years and years, with occasional flare-ups.

What happened now is that the LCS/BF as a whole are extremely tight on cash. Most notably due to the fact that the Admin has kept the place afloat to a large degree by getting huge loans from local multimillionaires. In light of the current downturn, this has dried up, and in addition, several stressed multimillionaires have been demanding repayment of outstanding loans.

This has all put a lot of pressure on the Admin, and at this point, he decided his priorities were with the Cheder and not BF. IOW, his position seems to be that he is killing himself already to keep the place afloat, and he is not going to kill himself even more to float a place that doesn't effectively recognize his authority.

The above could all be a bit off, and there is of course a lot of detail that I'm missing and/or am not familiar with, but that's the gist of it.

118

 Dec 09, 2008 at 01:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Sad, but true. We have been shooting ourselves in the foot for years.

119

 Dec 09, 2008 at 01:48 PM point to ponder Says:

This School has a huge wedding hall . Weddings are there practically every night . Where is all this money going to?

120

 Dec 09, 2008 at 01:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #88  
mkarpas Says:


Kollelman

It seems that you did not learn much jewish history in your years in cheder,
yeshiva and kollel

Sarah Schneirer Zatsal was not a true Rebbitzin

She was a spinster (never married) and
did not have to work to support her kollelman prince and her
many children,

Sara Schenirer was married and was nable to have biological children. We, however are all her children since without the chinuch she gave women like my mother ( a holocaust survivor) would have no Jewish Education and there would not have been futuredoros

121

 Dec 09, 2008 at 02:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #110  
Anonymous Says:

Just a thought...maybe the parents should get a job and start paying tuition?

I know thats just crazy talk.

Just a thought - Maybe people who have nothing at stake in this crises should keep thier opinions to themselves instead of enjoying yenem's tzoros and drooling at the sight of things going bad for Lakewood and all Kollelim?

122

 Dec 09, 2008 at 02:09 PM Anonymous Says:

Yes, on paper the whole system doesn't work but then again it never did work on paper. As a 'numbers person' (yes, I work) I know that none of this works al pi derech hatevah so I am not ready to believe it will fall apart. Obviously whatever has been holding it together is not visible anyway so there is no reason to think it will stop holding it together now. It didn't make sense in a good economy either but somehow it worked.

I se that if the system does survive there are going to be many disappointed VIN readers.

123

 Dec 09, 2008 at 02:20 PM FFB Says:

Reply to #108  
Anonymous Says:

i love all the hate lakewood guys and gals popping out of the woodwork this has nothing to do with kollel

75% of parents are paying a few thausand a year ,its the administrater who is diverting the monney to the boys school for years

bais faiga on its awn is a very profitable enterprise because the the teachers salary are pennies

I don't think diverting money from one institution to another shows that the system is working. clearly the system is broken and throwing good money after bad is not a great idea. If people are encouraged not to go out and work, how is it their fault when these things happen. The community needs to figure out its priorities going forward. Torah should always be at the forefront but full time learning should not be at the expense of the children eating and should not be on other people's backs.

124

 Dec 09, 2008 at 02:27 PM Back 2 Business?? Says:

If someone works, their children are not admitted to the school?? Isn't that discrimination? Besides being bad business sense, is that even allowed in these United States? e.g., discrimination??
It sounds like to me the SYSTEM is broken and must be fixed. But we all have short memories. Once this financial mess (recession) is over, hopefully, IY"H soon, won't it be back to business as usual???
U.S. automakers are being asked by Congress to come up with a VIABLE plan for the future. Shouldn't we as well come up with a VIABLE plan???.......

125

 Dec 09, 2008 at 02:47 PM Anonymous Says:

just enroll them in public school.

126

 Dec 09, 2008 at 02:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #61  
this sounds odd Says:

I am puzzled by the decision to hold school in a mall. Is it a joke or does the school who has no money really intend to rent retail space to hold school when the actual building is not the problem? Of course, if there really is no school, lots of girls can head to the mall for something to do. Truancy officials love finding kids that age in malls. While there might be volunteers who want to organize learning for the girls, why would they use a mall?

of course its a joke....look at the age group - you cant keep the girls home so they go shopping!!

127

 Dec 09, 2008 at 02:37 PM Anonymous Says:

for those of u looking for an eitzah a new frum part online and part in class buisness school opened in lakewood togather with rutgers. in 8 months of just night seder u can have a buisness certificate from rutgers with an option for internship in big corps. I think the school is called BARRINGTON its advertided in lakewood

128

 Dec 09, 2008 at 02:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #12  
Big Masmid Says:

If you read today's news you would know that Stocks take a step back , we have to remember that Hashem is testing us, I dont see that we stopped other necessities, why can we support a school??? If its about pure politics, as some have posted, I can say its the biggest Chilul Hashem of our times.

Go sit and learn, Big Masmid!
Stop worrying so much about Chilul Hashem!

129

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Its a pleasure and at times a great laugh to read all these mouth-breathing meat-heads commenting about a subject that they have no knowledge.
As an insider I can tell you that this is NOT a financial issue - tuition is being paid as usual. The Cheder staff is being paid. Bais Faiga staff is NOT being paid. The executive director is trying to rile up the staff against his nemesis the principal, so he's not paying them hoping that there will be a backlash against her.
Roshei Yeshiva and askanim are throwing up their hands in dismay as they fail to implement a new vaad hachinuch acceptable to both sides.

130

 Dec 09, 2008 at 02:27 PM binderdundat Says:

Reply to #118  
Anonymous Says:

Sad, but true. We have been shooting ourselves in the foot for years.

The kollels are not the problem; they are the end result of a problem that has spread thru our yeshivas and girls high schools for the past 20 years or so. The boys get a minimal secular education, but are taught that college is assur (Touro, anyone?), and they are all G-ds gift to women. They then head off to Israel where the "Rosh Yeshiva" continues the brain washing by telling them if they should demand 5 years, 10 years, etc of support. The girls, on the other hand, from the day they set foot in high school, are taught that they MUST marry kollel boys, and they will go straight to gan eden. The girls come home and since every friend is marrying a learning boy, they must also. Otherwise, they will be embarrassed. So parents have to kill themselves for some two bit freeloader (yes, I know there are some sincere boys), who sleeps til 10, and surfs the internet all day. It is here where the rabbonim and mashgichim im the kollels are to blame, They know who the bums are, but better to have them do nothing in lakewood than go out into the real world, work, and realize that "our" gedolim are not very good leaders. As long as they can have dinners every other night and have people line up to kiss their butts. You reap what you sow. This was inevitable.

131

 Dec 09, 2008 at 04:04 PM Anonymous Says:

As an old-time Lakewood resident, who sent all my children to the Cheder and to Bais Faiga,(they are grown now),it saddens me to no end to see what is happening. Both the administrator and the principal were very capable people who ran a great school. To see them being against each other and sending the wrong message to the students as far as chinuch is concerned, is such a waste. Just recently, people were trying to get into Bais Faiga as it was such a well run school(those people who say they don't take working people are just a bunch of baloney). I only hope the school itself doesn't suffer. When these two capable people worked together, it was beautiful. How sad.

132

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:58 PM Question Says:

And will the parents get a refund for the days their kids are NOT in scholl not due to their choice? I am sure the answer is no so the scholl is takeh ganovim in this case and with the case of not paying workers.


Workers MUST be paid for their services and work and anyone who is moichel on this is a big fool. Parents are paying on avergae 4,000 per kid in tuition. 1800 X 4000.00 is 720.000 and then add the melaveh malkehs and other ways that the school raises it's funds. (add the governement subsidies)

Nobody is claiming that schools are raking it in but I challenge the school to open their book sto the parents. If the school refuses to open it's books to the parents then they are not trust worthy. This was also said by a godol this morning but the conversation was off the record so we can't mention the name.

133

 Dec 09, 2008 at 04:01 PM Anonymous Says:

it is very sad that so many peaple think about lakewood like this. these are the peaple who probely are working because they couln't keep up then went to work and today are just so plain right out jealous of those who are learning that it causes them to write such sicking things obout peaple who learn.

134

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:53 PM Anonymous Says:

I want to address some of the various comments that support and codemn Rabbi M. the administartor.
1. He took over running ths school almost 20 years ago and ran it as best as he could, but when one has no one to answer to or no one who is his boss the adminstrator after a while even with the best intentions becomes a dictator. The old adage that power corrupts and abolute power corrupts absolutely is applicable in this case.
2.An admistrator who defies Daas Torah and only consults with himself is bound to fail as he makes mockery of our Rosh Hayeshivas who are our gedolim and are the ones who built Lakewood into the citadel of Torah that it is today.
3.On the issue of diversion of funds and Rabbi M's Lexus. That can be addressed by an independent audit that can ascertain where the funds came from and where they went. These are community schools that should be opened to publ;ic scrutinity.
4.If you check with the NJ US Attorney website you will see that the administrator agreed to repay over 1 million dollars to settle fraud charges. This money is coming from the school not his pocket so there is a shortage for salaries, which is not being disclosed.
5.According to my fellow parents it is known that the administrator is involved in personal very expensive court litigation because he ignored the Psak of Bais Din and the rulings of leading Rosh Hayesivas. That money has to come from somewhere. We as tuition paying parents have a right to know that our tuition money is going for the intended purpose and not being siphoned off for private Machlokes.
Finally if the powers to be no longer want you one should honorably step aside and give someone else a chance to run the schools that is not so controversial.

135

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

dear kollelman,
i guess the dedicated teachers that have had such wonderful chinuch from the bais yaakov schools & have been encouraged to support their kollel husbands as yourself cannot do this
because they are not being paid. also
why are you using your precious kollel
time to be on the internet that is forbidden by all gedolim.

136

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #129  
Anonymous Says:

Its a pleasure and at times a great laugh to read all these mouth-breathing meat-heads commenting about a subject that they have no knowledge.
As an insider I can tell you that this is NOT a financial issue - tuition is being paid as usual. The Cheder staff is being paid. Bais Faiga staff is NOT being paid. The executive director is trying to rile up the staff against his nemesis the principal, so he's not paying them hoping that there will be a backlash against her.
Roshei Yeshiva and askanim are throwing up their hands in dismay as they fail to implement a new vaad hachinuch acceptable to both sides.

As a Bais Faiga parent I have not paid my Bais Faiga tuition for the last few months. The money is in escrow and I will release it when the big M is ready to pay the teachers. If all Bais Faiga parents did that the crisis will be solved much quicker.

137

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:42 PM shteig Says:

Gemera Kiddushin 30 father must teach a son a professional skill.

138

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:40 PM Anonymous Says:

In reponse to #59 there are many parents whos daughters go to Bais Faiga who work. There are other reasons why a child is rejected. The home has to be toahdic home one can work and still be a ben torah from the tone of your letter I think working was the least of the problems.

I do not live i Lakewood so I have no children in the schools but I do know something of what is going on. There is a power play between the board & admin on one side and some other person(s) who would like to be in control. Nobody is saying that the current administrator is perfect (far from that) but the board, parent body and most of the teaches DO NOT WANT these person(s) taking over. The Cheder is run by the same admin & board and the teachers there are getting paid so why is Bais Faiga different there is only one reason these person(s) want to be in control and the teachers & the students have become the pawns.
If this is not straightened out soon this could be the end of the school and there will be blood on these people(s) hand they are ruining these fine girls for ever. What will these children think that because of kovod they are willing to sacrifise holy yiddisher neshomos. Let us settle before is to late.
For all those big talkers who say that the teachers should work for nothing Do you work for nothing? Remember a lot of these teachers thier husbands are Rabbeim and they need this income to put bread on the table (I did not say butter) all those responsible think of what you are doing people are ging hungry they can not pay thier bills do not say you mean kovod shomaim that is an outright lie you mean Kovod but not for shomaim.

139

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:33 PM a yid Says:

If the strike isn't over in 2 days all the parents should not pay tuition. no tike no washy

140

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:28 PM moshe kapoyer Says:

#129 you hit the nail on the head

141

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
Lyda Lyda Says:

I, too, was not accepted into Bais Faiga because I work. Looking at what is happening now, I can only thank Hashem that my child was placed into a school which is not being brought down by the Admin.
I highly doubt the people in charge learns more than I do, either. But hey, I work, and therefore my children are evil and deserving of shame.

Thankfully, my integrity would never allow me to act in such a vile and menuveldike manner. The culprit responsible for this will have a great deal to explain in shomayim for the bitul torah he brought upon the people of Lakewood today. But then again, seeing the glib manner with which these people (or person) has regarded roshei teshiva for decades, one can hardly assume he cares.

Shame on those responsible.


Just for the information of #59 there are quite a few members of the parent body in Bais Faiga who work. I can only imagine that your child was rejected for some other reason and from the tone of your letter I can well imagine that they had good reason.
I am not a parent of any child in Bais Faiga in fact I do not live in Lakewood but I quite familiar what is going on. Let us be quite realistic the same board & admin is in charge of the cheder and there the Rebbe's are getting paid so there is much more than meets the eye. There is a power play here "MI BEROSH" who is the head of this mossad who is in charge. For years the school has been runnning very well. Now there are people who want to wrest control from the admistrator (I am not saying that he is perfect and he has to learn to work with people) but the parent body and the current board do no want the person(s) who would like to be in control. These person(s) will have a lot to answer for. Girls not going to school the loshon hora etc that this has caused.
That is why the teaches are not getting paid and the school has this problem. If it is not taken care of this could be the end of the school and the blood will be on the hands of these few people. Also, I understand that within the teachers themselfs there is no achdus they have to spaeak with one voice. Let us hope & pray that matter will be solved soon bezras hashem.

142

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:25 PM Anonymous Says:

I wonder what would happen if parents say enough is enough and actually start sending their kids to public school....it's free...the kids will be in school getting a good education.....go to college.....get a good job.....become drs and lawyers.....who knows maybe one of them will become the president of the USA......yeah, I think that sending the kids to public school will solve all the problems...

143

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:24 PM Anonymous Says:

hi there im am employe at Bais Faiga i can honstley say that the account are running on neg the past 8-10 months

144

 Dec 09, 2008 at 04:12 PM Anonymous Says:

I dont unserstand how the Raboim can let the school get away with it.........

145

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
Lyda Lyda Says:

I, too, was not accepted into Bais Faiga because I work. Looking at what is happening now, I can only thank Hashem that my child was placed into a school which is not being brought down by the Admin.
I highly doubt the people in charge learns more than I do, either. But hey, I work, and therefore my children are evil and deserving of shame.

Thankfully, my integrity would never allow me to act in such a vile and menuveldike manner. The culprit responsible for this will have a great deal to explain in shomayim for the bitul torah he brought upon the people of Lakewood today. But then again, seeing the glib manner with which these people (or person) has regarded roshei teshiva for decades, one can hardly assume he cares.

Shame on those responsible.

There are many parents who have children in Bais Faiga who work. So, maybe there is some other reason your daughter was not accepted and from the tone of your letter there seems to be good reason, working was the least of them.

146

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #87  
REB NOACH Says:

YOU MAY ALL COME TO CROWN HEIGHTS AND SEND YOUR KIDS TO A GOOD SCHOOL THAT HAS BEEN PAYING VERY NICE SALARIES ON TIME FOR YEARS!!!!!!! The school has over 2000 kinderlach that learn and there parents dont sit in a kolel all day smoking and talking bad about others........ 6 days a week we toil and then shabbos comes... Shaises Yamim Taavod ....

Go Bais Rivkah!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is this some kind of joke? BR teachers went on strike when my sister was in the school.

The teachers there are not paid on time either (In fact Bnos Menachem has a better track record than BR and are arguably attracting the better teachers because of that).

As a Lubavitcher I find it despicable that you are kicking a brother (the Lakewood community) when they are down. Why don't you write a check instead to help ease the situation?

147

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Did any of you ever hear of Rebbe Yochanan Ben Zakai.
He lived for 120 years.
He spent the first 40 as a businessman.
The second forty learning
The last forty teaching.
Note during the forty years of learning ,he mooched off of nobody.

148

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:13 PM 100% kollel population is unprecedented Says:

Reply to #82  
Anonymous Says:

In the last great financial meltdown klal yisroel was tested on shemiras shabbos and b"h many of us can point to parents and grandparents who passed the test even when it meant missing meals and stooping to the lowest jobs to put one meal a day in thier children's mouth.

Perhaps this is the test of our times. A time we can show how much we value torah & chinuch.

some people here better hope that is not the case because they are proudly failing the test.

Shmiras Shabbos is a midaryssa.

Having most of the population sit (and hopefully learn) in kollel is a system that was invented post WWII and was for the most part frowned upon prior to that time.

149

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:09 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #88  
mkarpas Says:


Kollelman

It seems that you did not learn much jewish history in your years in cheder,
yeshiva and kollel

Sarah Schneirer Zatsal was not a true Rebbitzin

She was a spinster (never married) and
did not have to work to support her kollelman prince and her
many children,

Not true. She was married to a Rabbi Landau....

That is all I know

Anyone know more who was this Rabbi Landau and what happened to him?

150

 Dec 09, 2008 at 03:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #114  
Anonymous Says:

The world stands on three things:
Torah - the husband sits in Kollel,
Avodah - the wife works and raises the kinderleich,
Gmilus Chassadim - the parents support them.

I guess if the parents don't have money the world doesn't run?

151

 Dec 09, 2008 at 04:23 PM whatever Says:

This seems to be a never ending battle in Lakewood these days. Girls not attending school during the SCHOOL YEAR.
If what this article is stating is indeed fact, then SHAME on the school administration heads!
How do you run a professional practice, and be so irresponsible, by not paying the teachers on time, every time the pay check is due.
I wonder how the school would react if none of the student's parents paid tuition.
Would they allow that child in the school? No.
If money is so important to these people, than practice what you preach and pay your teachers their proper amounts, ON TIME. Delaying a paycheck by just ONE day, is in itself extremely irresponsible.
Unless they lost all their money for buying houses they couldn't afford and the bail out didn't cut it. Awe poor things (*sarcasm*).

152

 Dec 09, 2008 at 04:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #132  
Question Says:

And will the parents get a refund for the days their kids are NOT in scholl not due to their choice? I am sure the answer is no so the scholl is takeh ganovim in this case and with the case of not paying workers.


Workers MUST be paid for their services and work and anyone who is moichel on this is a big fool. Parents are paying on avergae 4,000 per kid in tuition. 1800 X 4000.00 is 720.000 and then add the melaveh malkehs and other ways that the school raises it's funds. (add the governement subsidies)

Nobody is claiming that schools are raking it in but I challenge the school to open their book sto the parents. If the school refuses to open it's books to the parents then they are not trust worthy. This was also said by a godol this morning but the conversation was off the record so we can't mention the name.

in your wildest dreams . The average tution in Bais Faiga is much less than $4,000. taking into consideration many rachmonus cases that pay nothing and the vast majority that pays minimum in the low 3,000 s or less

153

 Dec 09, 2008 at 04:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #82  
Anonymous Says:

In the last great financial meltdown klal yisroel was tested on shemiras shabbos and b"h many of us can point to parents and grandparents who passed the test even when it meant missing meals and stooping to the lowest jobs to put one meal a day in thier children's mouth.

Perhaps this is the test of our times. A time we can show how much we value torah & chinuch.

some people here better hope that is not the case because they are proudly failing the test.

#82 - Are you seriously endorsing to starve your kids in order to sit in Kollel? That is cruel!

154

 Dec 09, 2008 at 04:19 PM A Says:

Reply to #121  
Anonymous Says:

Just a thought - Maybe people who have nothing at stake in this crises should keep thier opinions to themselves instead of enjoying yenem's tzoros and drooling at the sight of things going bad for Lakewood and all Kollelim?

Well....when they come knocking at my door, calling me on the phone at all times of the day and night, sending me letter after letter for years begging for money, yes, then it's my issue as well and I can jump in and criticize all I want.

You know what, even if the above weren't an unfortunate truth I'd be allowed to voice an opinion. I have no doubt that you voice opinions on many matters you have no stake in.

155

 Dec 09, 2008 at 05:01 PM tooperfect Says:

i'm with #25. i think it's time we redo the whole system, because it cant function much longer this way.

156

 Dec 09, 2008 at 04:49 PM Anonymous Says:

he doesnt drive a lexus . that was in the example. read first and then comment

157

 Dec 09, 2008 at 04:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #82  
Anonymous Says:

In the last great financial meltdown klal yisroel was tested on shemiras shabbos and b"h many of us can point to parents and grandparents who passed the test even when it meant missing meals and stooping to the lowest jobs to put one meal a day in thier children's mouth.

Perhaps this is the test of our times. A time we can show how much we value torah & chinuch.

some people here better hope that is not the case because they are proudly failing the test.

Exactly. And we are being tested on the same inyan again. Sehishes Ymim Taavod.

Sorry but I am having a hard time feeling bad for the Bais Faiga with their anti working people attitude for the past 10 years. They burned their bridges with the very people that could (possibly) bail them out today.

A lesson for the future that all yiddishe kinderlach deserve a torah education.

158

 Dec 09, 2008 at 04:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

Maybe I'm wrong, but don't you think the school would pay if they had the money? What is a strike going to accomplish?

Oh, I don't know. Perhaps if teachers got paid the same way as rabeiim, and if they were treated with the same level of respect, that would be something different, but teachers are not treated the same, and if you did a job and did not get paid, wouldn't you be annoyed?
I can just imagine "learning" in kollel and not getting paid for 6 months, how thrilled would you be???

159

 Dec 09, 2008 at 05:42 PM Anonymous Says:

This business on Bais Faiga not taking working people is utter nonsense . There are many hundreds of working people in the parent body .anytime somebodi is rejected he blasmes it on his being a working person . There is a lack of space and I know many Kollel leit that were also not accepted for lack of space

160

 Dec 09, 2008 at 05:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #132  
Question Says:

And will the parents get a refund for the days their kids are NOT in scholl not due to their choice? I am sure the answer is no so the scholl is takeh ganovim in this case and with the case of not paying workers.


Workers MUST be paid for their services and work and anyone who is moichel on this is a big fool. Parents are paying on avergae 4,000 per kid in tuition. 1800 X 4000.00 is 720.000 and then add the melaveh malkehs and other ways that the school raises it's funds. (add the governement subsidies)

Nobody is claiming that schools are raking it in but I challenge the school to open their book sto the parents. If the school refuses to open it's books to the parents then they are not trust worthy. This was also said by a godol this morning but the conversation was off the record so we can't mention the name.

actually $7.2 million. But, I doubt he gets $4000 average per student. I mean that is what BT charges!!!!

161

 Dec 09, 2008 at 05:38 PM T S Says:

1. An employee must get paid. Period. No one has the right to expect anyone who works to do so one day past not getting paid (The torah explicitely (just like the prohibition of Pork) forbids an employer to delay wages). Regardless of occupation.

2. The root of this matter (its confusion and unknowns) has little to do with Lakewod per se. A charity-taking Mossad must have open books and unbiased decision makers. (Excusing the lack of transparency for the good of the mossad is blatantly hollow. In addition to that there's no heter to break dina dimalchusa, once hidden and in the exclusive control of few, shochad Yi-Aver even Einei CHACHOMIM). Finance should be open and controlled by non-school-emplyee, unbiased, multi-leveled checkpoints, as done in any honest business with multiple partners. There should be no secrets. Every employee's salary and every expense should be open. Why not?
If it is a truly private company then don't plead tzedaka and poverty and community service, divine role = chinuch, etc.

3. Maybe the girl's school was allowed to bear the brunt of shortfall because certain decision makers feel bittul torah of boys is worse than schooling of girls.

162

 Dec 09, 2008 at 05:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #137  
shteig Says:

Gemera Kiddushin 30 father must teach a son a professional skill.

That has been removed from the Lakewood Shaas>

163

 Dec 09, 2008 at 05:19 PM Jealous?? Says:

Reply to #133  
Anonymous Says:

it is very sad that so many peaple think about lakewood like this. these are the peaple who probely are working because they couln't keep up then went to work and today are just so plain right out jealous of those who are learning that it causes them to write such sicking things obout peaple who learn.

Jealous about people who learn?? Uhhhhhhhh.... I think not. I for one wouldn't have the zits fleish...... I believe people in EY and USA who learn "al cheshbon acheirim" are ganavim..... If there are willing participants a la Yissachar and Zevulun it's a different story..... but that's not always the case ....

164

 Dec 09, 2008 at 05:16 PM Fotheringay-Phipps Says:

The idea that this admin is making big bucks off the school is highly dubious. This is a school that does not have a solid source of support. Tuition is relatively low, based on the parent body income.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that there could be shenanigans going on, like anyplace else, but there's absolutely no reason to suspect this, based on all external indicators.

This administrator appears to be strongly supported by the rebbeim in LCS as well as additional staff that I spoke to. The teachers in BF are adamently opposed to him - they are pawns in the power struggle over control of BF.

On the whole, both LCS & BF are very well run, from an educational perspective. The principal of BF who is challenging this administrator is an excellent principal and a very fine woman and she is doing a very good job of running BF.

One underlying issue structural here - as I see it - is a lack of clearly defined roles, which leads to people deciding for themselves how much authority they should have.

Re gedolim, there are all sorts of people involved, some of whose positions are not completely clear, and some whose positions are alleged to have changed.

165

 Dec 09, 2008 at 05:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #114  
Anonymous Says:

The world stands on three things:
Torah - the husband sits in Kollel,
Avodah - the wife works and raises the kinderleich,
Gmilus Chassadim - the parents support them.

This ideology is exactly the cause of the situation we face now.Back to work....NOW!

166

 Dec 09, 2008 at 05:11 PM Rodney King Says:

I'm laughing at al these people who know it all... The bottom line is, there is a big power struggle going on...and your anti kollel comments or any other angry comments that you are harbouring should be kept to yourselves and not aired in public.
For the real scoop..Connecticut, North Jersey , Upstate N.Y. and Boro Park are all being pressed into the scene, some more reluctant than others. Heard that Pennsylvania doesn't want to go at this alone. (No disrespect meant by using locale names)

Until then.. can't we all get along?

167

 Dec 09, 2008 at 05:11 PM Anonymous Says:

$4,000 sounds unbelievably cheap for tuition, and some have said it is 3,000. In Far Rockaway, full tuition in the local schools is 12,000+.

168

 Dec 09, 2008 at 05:46 PM Anonymous Says:

As a parent I don't know where you get the idea that we are behind the administrator

169

 Dec 09, 2008 at 05:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Boruch Mannes drives a late model silver Honda Accord.Not much better than the typical Lakewood yungerman on government programs

170

 Dec 09, 2008 at 06:27 PM Anonymous Says:

If he is only an administrator can't he be fired?He is only an employee and he would be required to report to a board.Unless he was given/taken complete control, in which case the school is reaping the rewards of what they've sown,anarchy.One man was given complete control of a community organization and the board have disappeared.I wouldn't want any of my kids receiving an education under such auspices.

171

 Dec 09, 2008 at 06:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #169  
Anonymous Says:

Boruch Mannes drives a late model silver Honda Accord.Not much better than the typical Lakewood yungerman on government programs

The BF staff - minus a few teachers are pretty solidly behind the principal.

172

 Dec 09, 2008 at 06:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #166  
Rodney King Says:

I'm laughing at al these people who know it all... The bottom line is, there is a big power struggle going on...and your anti kollel comments or any other angry comments that you are harbouring should be kept to yourselves and not aired in public.
For the real scoop..Connecticut, North Jersey , Upstate N.Y. and Boro Park are all being pressed into the scene, some more reluctant than others. Heard that Pennsylvania doesn't want to go at this alone. (No disrespect meant by using locale names)

Until then.. can't we all get along?

If this is true then kudos to the teachers - their strike is causing this eminent powow - that NEVER would have happened had they not gone on strike.

173

 Dec 09, 2008 at 06:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #166  
Rodney King Says:

I'm laughing at al these people who know it all... The bottom line is, there is a big power struggle going on...and your anti kollel comments or any other angry comments that you are harbouring should be kept to yourselves and not aired in public.
For the real scoop..Connecticut, North Jersey , Upstate N.Y. and Boro Park are all being pressed into the scene, some more reluctant than others. Heard that Pennsylvania doesn't want to go at this alone. (No disrespect meant by using locale names)

Until then.. can't we all get along?

Naturally. Mannes and his cronies made a gelechter out of Pennsylvania yesterday. Create a REAL VAAD HACHINUCH that Mannes can not ignore or throw out and we'll be in business. Don't claim to have put together an impartial vaad when they're all Mannes yes-men.

174

 Dec 09, 2008 at 06:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #164  
Fotheringay-Phipps Says:

The idea that this admin is making big bucks off the school is highly dubious. This is a school that does not have a solid source of support. Tuition is relatively low, based on the parent body income.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that there could be shenanigans going on, like anyplace else, but there's absolutely no reason to suspect this, based on all external indicators.

This administrator appears to be strongly supported by the rebbeim in LCS as well as additional staff that I spoke to. The teachers in BF are adamently opposed to him - they are pawns in the power struggle over control of BF.

On the whole, both LCS & BF are very well run, from an educational perspective. The principal of BF who is challenging this administrator is an excellent principal and a very fine woman and she is doing a very good job of running BF.

One underlying issue structural here - as I see it - is a lack of clearly defined roles, which leads to people deciding for themselves how much authority they should have.

Re gedolim, there are all sorts of people involved, some of whose positions are not completely clear, and some whose positions are alleged to have changed.

BM is very smart - of course the Cheder staff is behind him - he pays them better, on time and gives them healthy bonuses before Pesach. All of which he does NOT do for BF. Any question left as to why in the Cheder they love him unlike in BF. Wake up!

175

 Dec 09, 2008 at 05:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #104  
Loshon Hora Says:

I am not one of his cronys, I am unfortunatly childless,Yes I have seen his kitchen table.
As for the million did you see the contract, & the cash to back it? You know the answer to that.
As for listening to the Roshei Yeshiva & mashgiach, for one how do you know if he listens or not?
For two he knows a lot more about the moisod & ho wto run it successfully for so many years than they will ever know, ask they will all agree.
From my knowledge one of R' Malkiel's drivers asked him about the situation,his answer was I am not involved, and don't want to get involved.
There is a lot of Loshon Hora & motzei shem ra on the streets, & a great lack of menschlichkeit, and hakoras hatov out there.
Do I like all of M's way? no, but one thing I do know, I could never of done half as good as him,and all the rabonim & roshei Yeshiva feel the same, even if they don't say it.
As a total outsider being childless, and watching, I agree he has made mistakes, and is far from perfect, he will continue to make mistakes, but no one will do better.
Don't aggrevate & antagonize, show hakoras hatov, & then if you feel, it is time for a replacement, don't fight & pull the rug out from under his feet, thank him deal with him, & part nicely.
Make a dinner award him, & place a thank you plaque in all buildings for him, and compensate him as he deserves.
If you just want to put another person in, because of his anncesstory, & for that you kill & damn someone else, who has given his & his family's lives away for the Mosod then think twice.

Reb Malkiel was burnt one time too many on this issue. Ask Reb Dovid Shustals driver why he torpedoed the Mashgiachs attempt to resolve this issue. I would love to hear him say I have nothing to do with it. Its not for nothing that no one wants the Yeshiva involved.

176

 Dec 09, 2008 at 06:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Breaking news!!! No school on Wednesday!!!

177

 Dec 09, 2008 at 06:31 PM Long Island Mother Says:

All the years I was growing up, my parents were unable to pay full tuition. My mother volunteered in the school office two days a week (when she wasn't working her regular job) and my father ran fundraiser, after fundraiser to help my yeshiva make money.
I was taught that first you pay your mortgage, then you pay your tuition AND THEN you spend the rest. Some years it was really a struggle, but my husband and I always paid our tuition because we always understood that Rabbeim & Morot have to eat too.

Now I am constantly getting people coming to my door begging for money to keep their yeshivas running. I work, my husband works and we refuse to support any yeshiva that does not pay its teachers, pay them well and pay them on time.

My daughter is married to a young man learning in Kollel, going on 6 years. We told our daughter, if that is what you want, then you better get an excellent education so you can support that lifestyle. B"H, while they live very simply and carefully, she makes a comfortable income working part-time because she has the education to command an excellent salary. Perhaps that should be the lesson here.

178

 Dec 09, 2008 at 06:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #170  
Anonymous Says:

If he is only an administrator can't he be fired?He is only an employee and he would be required to report to a board.Unless he was given/taken complete control, in which case the school is reaping the rewards of what they've sown,anarchy.One man was given complete control of a community organization and the board have disappeared.I wouldn't want any of my kids receiving an education under such auspices.

You have elucidated part of Mrs. Epsteins issues very succintly.

179

 Dec 09, 2008 at 06:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #143  
Anonymous Says:

hi there im am employe at Bais Faiga i can honstley say that the account are running on neg the past 8-10 months

Unless you work in the business office, you would have no idea what you're talking about.

180

 Dec 09, 2008 at 06:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #146  
Anonymous Says:

Is this some kind of joke? BR teachers went on strike when my sister was in the school.

The teachers there are not paid on time either (In fact Bnos Menachem has a better track record than BR and are arguably attracting the better teachers because of that).

As a Lubavitcher I find it despicable that you are kicking a brother (the Lakewood community) when they are down. Why don't you write a check instead to help ease the situation?

Well said.

181

 Dec 09, 2008 at 06:58 PM mimi Says:

To all you TEACHERS out there!
We are hurting with you, and we can't imagine what it must feel like not to bring home a paycheck. It must've been hard.
We know you don't make much, but as parents we want u to remember:
You make kids question.
You make kids apologize and mean it.
You make kids write.
You want to know what u really make?
You MAKE a difference.

We are backing you. We want you to get full compensation and QUICK! You all deserve it! Teachers, YOU are the cornerstone of education. YOU are definitely the Unsung heroes of Klal Yisroel!

182

 Dec 09, 2008 at 06:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #173  
Anonymous Says:

Naturally. Mannes and his cronies made a gelechter out of Pennsylvania yesterday. Create a REAL VAAD HACHINUCH that Mannes can not ignore or throw out and we'll be in business. Don't claim to have put together an impartial vaad when they're all Mannes yes-men.

On the money. They were mevazeh Reb Shmuel yesterday.

183

 Dec 09, 2008 at 06:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #18  
Anonymous Says:

here are the facts as they stand

bais faiga despite the current economic situation is not in the red the problem is that the current Administrator is diverting funds from bais faiga to the lakewood cheder boys school ,thus denying much needed funds and resources to bais faiga.this jas been going on for a while and it was just discovered that the lakewood cheder has a deficit of over ten million dollars there is no fundraising at all and this administrator is the only one in control ,The problem is that there is a core group of parents that support him because he dosent take wvreyone in to the school which gives them a holier than though attitude.
he refused to pay for much needed staff for bais faiga which the current principle and the roshei yeshivos have took upon themselves to pay these salaries.
this is not just a strike its a demonstration of Kavod hatorah for the roshei yeshiva and for the ziknei hador in whose leadership we follow.

MR SEEM TO KNOW IT ALL B4 I ANSWER U JUST KNOW I DONT HAVE ANY CHILDREN IN ANY CHEDER SCHOOL CURRENTLY AND IM NEITHER FOR OR AGAINST ANY SIDE BUT JUST KNOW THAT THERE ARE ZIKNE GEDOLIEM SUPPORTING BOTH PARTIES(RAV YOSEF ROSENBLUM SHLITA IS BH A ZAKON AS WELL AS A GODOL) AND SUPPORTS THE ADMINISTRATOR TO THIS ARGUMENT AND BEING THAT MOST PEOPLE HERE ARENT NOGYA TO THE ISSUE AS THE CHOFETZ CHAIM WRITES IN SHMIRAS HALOSHON STAY AWAY FROM MACHLOKES (ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARENT A PARTY TO IT)

184

 Dec 09, 2008 at 06:52 PM Library Lover Says:

Reply to #39  
fed up Says:

how dare you say that............. who you fooling with your name KOLLELMAN thats exactly your stupid hashkafa lets go collecting from the working ppl while you sit on your tuchus and drink coffee all day and i am sure u have a rich shver and ur wife works with no salary because its lshem shomayim..... and btw if ur a kollelman u shouldnt be on the internet secondly shouldnt u be learning oh i am sure u go @ 9 and ur wife sees u going then u come back home to go on the internet shame on u

You fool! I am a teacher, and I am still trying to collect for 2 years on what a certain Monsey school owes me!! Now, again, in another school, I am a few mos behind, havent gotten a check YET! They all cry that they have no $$$, but the fact is, the administrator and principals ARE getting paid, and it is ONLY because of the dedication of teachers like ME that ALL these crooked mosdos havent closed! They don't tell the parents, so the parents think we are being paid, and if we do, we get fired! We have noone on our side to complain to and its each person for his/her own self...this crookedness, BTW, has been going on for YEARS, and NOT just in Lakewood...teachers have ALWAYS been last on the list to get the tiny salaries we make, and if not for our LOVE of the job and the kids, we would have many more schools closing...so before you judge someone, you need to get all the facts!

185

 Dec 09, 2008 at 06:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #179  
Anonymous Says:

Unless you work in the business office, you would have no idea what you're talking about.

And if you do, you deserved to be fired. That's like a shadchan spilling the beans before its official.

186

 Dec 09, 2008 at 07:33 PM Anonymous Says:

I have a personal gripe about Rabbi M.He is a ruthless bully and did great harm to my mishpacha, years ago. The principal and many teachers were in Bais Faiga before him. He should have someone to answer to . (He does actually - Hashem Himself ). He should be made to step down from his lofty position. The parents, instead of paying tuition to the school, should pool their resources and pay the teachers directly, and keep a record as proof of having paid their tuition.

187

 Dec 09, 2008 at 07:32 PM Library Lover Says:

Sorry, my comment was a reply to # 26, 'where is the dedication, etc.." NOT # 39. sorry, #39., and MIMI, thanks for the support.

188

 Dec 09, 2008 at 07:21 PM Anonymous Says:

This is certainly a difficult situation without any simple answers. HOWEVER, what happened to the "ACHDUS" which everyone agreed was necessary only a little over a week ago, after the Mumbai massacre.

Stop the name calling and the loshon hora!! And NO, I do not have any bright solutions either!

189

 Dec 09, 2008 at 07:21 PM Library Lover Says:

Reply to #114  
Anonymous Says:

The world stands on three things:
Torah - the husband sits in Kollel,
Avodah - the wife works and raises the kinderleich,
Gmilus Chassadim - the parents support them.

Good one, well put! AND, sadly, true..

190

 Dec 09, 2008 at 08:20 PM Anonymous Says:

To number 183. You are wrong on your facts. Rabbi M does not have the support of any Godol. Rabbi Rosenblum at one time supported him that is true, but now Rabbi Rosenblum no longer supports him as Rabbi M ignores everything that Rabbi Rosenblum recommends and ignores all the Rosh hayeshiva's pleading to settle the Machlokes.

191

 Dec 09, 2008 at 08:42 PM Berel Says:

I don't mean to excuse paying teachers late, but as far as an issur/chiyuv d'oraisah being involved I think the case can be made that it only applies when the employer is an individual, as opposed to a corporation or organization where the corporate entity is the employer.

192

 Dec 09, 2008 at 08:45 PM Zaide from Sea gate Says:

Why can't we all get along. There is so many Tzoros in Klal Yisroel. why is there such Machlokes. Everything is Hevel Havelim.

193

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #143  
Anonymous Says:

hi there im am employe at Bais Faiga i can honstley say that the account are running on neg the past 8-10 months

of course its ngative because a tiny little mouse has been divertig the money elseware .

194

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:15 PM BoroParkYenta Says:

When the women have to be the breadwinners, and the men are sitting and learning, the girls should be homeschooled. If the parents paid for private tutoring, the tutors would get paid. Schools have never been accountable or responsible. I would not want my child to learn from a teacher who has not been paid.
There has to be a solution to this somewhere.....where is the money? No one gets away without paying tuition!

195

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #88  
mkarpas Says:


Kollelman

It seems that you did not learn much jewish history in your years in cheder,
yeshiva and kollel

Sarah Schneirer Zatsal was not a true Rebbitzin

She was a spinster (never married) and
did not have to work to support her kollelman prince and her
many children,

actually she was a gerusha (landau) who never had children. Her husband could not agree with her concept of teacvhing girls

196

 Dec 09, 2008 at 08:51 PM Anonymous Says:

the story of BF will be just the beginning of many mosdos on the brink of closing down due to lack of funds. just like businesses are cutting expenses so will these mosdos have to cut expenses or face extinction.the first place most mosdos can cut is administrators rediculous salaries. I dare any of these bigshots to try and get their salaries in the real world. With so many capable people out there without jobs it would not be too diffucult to replace them at half the price.just ask Rabbi B who was let go by the Agudah if anyone has offered him a position for even half of what he was making at the Agudah. Its time to open the books at all these tzedokas andsee where all the money is really going. anyone not willing to cooperate should be put on "do not donate list" the people who will examine the books should be from the regular hamoin aam that are not connected to the well connected and have no allegiance to any so called community leaders. It didn't take too long to find out the shenanigans going on at HASC once the books were openned.Unfortunatelyit would be bizyoynis if the truth would be known what really goes on with klal money.

197

 Dec 09, 2008 at 08:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Just a suggestion: Have every parent pay $100 to each teacher that teaches thier daughter and next time the yeshiva asks for tuition mail them copies of the cancelled checks and tell them to credit your account for the money you paid the teacher and if they don't like it to take you to din torah.

198

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:49 PM Mike Says:

Reply to #65  
Jacob Says:

"Meager salaries" How offensive! Where's the syate dishmaye?! Don't the teachers know that the "meager salaries" come from they same Hashem that they indoctrinate? What kind of message does this send the children? The hanhala should do as President Reagan did with the air traffic controllers strike in 1981. They should all be fired and their kids should be banished from all schools in shame. New yoirei shomayim teachers should be hired in their place. Shame on them.

Jacob you moron... Whats is your salary? Rebbeim and Morahs deserve a decent salary to provide for their children... I am so flabbergasted by your stupidity that I cannot write more. Please refer to Reb Moshe's ZT"L Teshuva's on paying mechanchim and do a little research on Rav Breuer's ZT"L shitas on paying mechanchim. As I am sure many other gedolim agreed with them.

199

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:25 PM Anonymous Says:

It seems to me that running Bais Faiga under the Cheder administration is not a good thing. Originally it was one school with two divisions, but, if the teaching staff of B. F. is not treated equally like the Cheder's then it should be a completely separate school with a completely different administration. And Rabbi BM has got to go...!

200

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #192  
Zaide from Sea gate Says:

Why can't we all get along. There is so many Tzoros in Klal Yisroel. why is there such Machlokes. Everything is Hevel Havelim.

Ziedy while you enjoy your retirement there are teachers with young children struggling to put bread on the table. When another yid raids your retirement account then we'll all agree with your clarion call of shalom and achdus.

201

 Dec 09, 2008 at 09:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #106  
Bais Faiga parent Says:

well put you are s/o that knows that this is not as simple as teachers not getting paid

I agree 100%. I have three daughters in the school. I believe he works very hard and gets no appreciation.

202

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #104  
Loshon Hora Says:

I am not one of his cronys, I am unfortunatly childless,Yes I have seen his kitchen table.
As for the million did you see the contract, & the cash to back it? You know the answer to that.
As for listening to the Roshei Yeshiva & mashgiach, for one how do you know if he listens or not?
For two he knows a lot more about the moisod & ho wto run it successfully for so many years than they will ever know, ask they will all agree.
From my knowledge one of R' Malkiel's drivers asked him about the situation,his answer was I am not involved, and don't want to get involved.
There is a lot of Loshon Hora & motzei shem ra on the streets, & a great lack of menschlichkeit, and hakoras hatov out there.
Do I like all of M's way? no, but one thing I do know, I could never of done half as good as him,and all the rabonim & roshei Yeshiva feel the same, even if they don't say it.
As a total outsider being childless, and watching, I agree he has made mistakes, and is far from perfect, he will continue to make mistakes, but no one will do better.
Don't aggrevate & antagonize, show hakoras hatov, & then if you feel, it is time for a replacement, don't fight & pull the rug out from under his feet, thank him deal with him, & part nicely.
Make a dinner award him, & place a thank you plaque in all buildings for him, and compensate him as he deserves.
If you just want to put another person in, because of his anncesstory, & for that you kill & damn someone else, who has given his & his family's lives away for the Mosod then think twice.

As a parent with 3 daughters in the school I totally agree.

203

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:31 PM Anonymous Says:

How about parents privately hiring teachers for their children and do away with formal schools. Something like in the olden days, people hired a melamed for their sons, it can be done with girls too. Perhaps if ten parents got together for each child and hired a teacher, the teacher could do better salarywise than in a school and the kids would probably learn more. (Something like being homeschooled, but with a private teacher and more kids per group)

204

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:39 PM choshen mishpat Says:

Reply to #191  
Berel Says:

I don't mean to excuse paying teachers late, but as far as an issur/chiyuv d'oraisah being involved I think the case can be made that it only applies when the employer is an individual, as opposed to a corporation or organization where the corporate entity is the employer.

where did you get smicha? you have no idea what your talking about

205

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #182  
Anonymous Says:

On the money. They were mevazeh Reb Shmuel yesterday.

theres no one who wants to get involved - sit with him for five minutes and you'll understand why.

206

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:02 PM Joseph Says:

To #74:

I don't believe for a second that story of the Cheder offering him a million dollars to leave because:

1)Where on earth is this suffering school getting a million dollars to pay him off?
2)He would have to be a total moron not to accept it and
3)Why do they even have to PAY him off? BM didn't start the school, so why doesn't whoever is actually in CHARGE (there's got to be SOMEONE or some people) boot him?

But I think the answer to 3 is that the Rosh Yeshivas were happy to let him handle the place with all the headaches it entailed on his conditions that he does it his way and no one meddles into his affairs. Well, the time has come for them to deal with their own headache and get rid of BM.

Another hot potato: Are all the local playgroups that follow Bais Faiga's schedule ALSO going to be closed? :)

And why are there three different opinions about Sorah Schneirer's life??? One would think it would be easy to ascertain if she was single/childless/divorced.

207

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #201  
Anonymous Says:

I agree 100%. I have three daughters in the school. I believe he works very hard and gets no appreciation.

what does appreciation have to do with this? go buy him a plaque if you like. The fact is that the staff are underpaid, treated like trash, you have to run after him for months for anything you need, and hes usingthem as pawns in a horrible fight - that they have nothing to do with.
When you need help with the inscription on your plaque i have some choice words to include.

208

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #55  
glatekup Says:

I don't think anyone does not have hakoras hatov to rabbi m. But it is time to move on.

The shame is that the core underlying issues have been ignored for years by Lakewood's leaders and Rabbonim!

209

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:07 PM non-kollel full-tuition paying parent Says:

I am thoroughly disgusted with the executive directors non-handling of this deplorable situation. To use our childrens beloved teachers as pawns in a high-stakes power struggle is unconscionable. There is NO excuse for it. Settle your differences with your principal privately.

210

 Dec 09, 2008 at 10:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #202  
Anonymous Says:

As a parent with 3 daughters in the school I totally agree.

if you were a staff member that he treated with brutal indifference you wouldnt agree so fast.

211

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #208  
Anonymous Says:

The shame is that the core underlying issues have been ignored for years by Lakewood's leaders and Rabbonim!

it hasnt been ignored; its been a terrible deadlock for years - dont you understand hes a 'lo tzayis dina'.

212

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:15 PM Anonymous Says:

if this situation lasts into next week - as looks like it will, it will tear lakewood apart, and destroy any remnant of kovod hatorah.

213

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #201  
Anonymous Says:

I agree 100%. I have three daughters in the school. I believe he works very hard and gets no appreciation.

when was the last time that YOU - holier-than-thou showed him appreciation yourself?

214

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Let a bais din hear all sides and issue a clear ruling!

215

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:57 PM Concernd Parent Says:

To # 214 The administrator does not want to go a Bais Din. He feels he has a mandate from the current parents to run things as he sees fit and no Daas Torah can tell him what to do. Until the parent body insists for a full accounting of the funds he will do as he pleases and pay himself what he pleases.

216

 Dec 09, 2008 at 11:49 PM dovy Says:

The BM side was not the ones who were mevazeh Rav Shmuel and Rav Mattisyahu. Rather the K and E unterveltnicks were the ones who stormed in on a private meeting between Rav Shmuel and Rav Mattisyahu and ransacked Rav Mattisyahu's house. One of them actually climbed in through the window in his fury. BTW, I am amused by all the bitter souls who thought this was a good opportunity to bash Kollel life. THey prabably were pretty disappointed to realize this has nothing to do with their pet peeve. (Or perhaps they are so small minded that they have yet to realize that)

217

 Dec 10, 2008 at 03:22 AM Anonymous Says:

this what we davend rosh hasane vtavir memshels zodon

218

 Dec 10, 2008 at 02:38 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #117  
Fotheringay-Phipps Says:

You guys are all misunderstanding the story.

There have been issues between the overall administrator for the entire Cheder/Bais Faiga system and the principal of the BF for years and years. Without going into the details of exactly what the issues are (some of which I am not familiar with) as a practical matter the crux of the issue is the extent to which the principal takes direction from this administrator. Technically he is her boss, but while he is universally considered a supremely capable administrator, he is not - to my knowledge - a professional educator, and in addition, she has been principal of BF for longer than he's been there. This situation has been simmering for years and years, with occasional flare-ups.

What happened now is that the LCS/BF as a whole are extremely tight on cash. Most notably due to the fact that the Admin has kept the place afloat to a large degree by getting huge loans from local multimillionaires. In light of the current downturn, this has dried up, and in addition, several stressed multimillionaires have been demanding repayment of outstanding loans.

This has all put a lot of pressure on the Admin, and at this point, he decided his priorities were with the Cheder and not BF. IOW, his position seems to be that he is killing himself already to keep the place afloat, and he is not going to kill himself even more to float a place that doesn't effectively recognize his authority.

The above could all be a bit off, and there is of course a lot of detail that I'm missing and/or am not familiar with, but that's the gist of it.

While you make some points, I want to know why does he divert funds from BF to the Cheder? Why do the rabbeim in the Cheder get much more than teachers in BF which includes free tuition? Also, one minute BM is good friends with the Yeshiva and the next minute he's not. Make up your mind.

219

 Dec 10, 2008 at 01:50 AM shmo Says:

Another hot potato: Are all the local playgroups that follow Bais Faiga's schedule ALSO going to be closed? :)

hands down, that was definitely the best post so far!!!

220

 Dec 10, 2008 at 01:26 AM collage grad Says:

this year I have lost over half a million dollars in the market and I'm happy because I know that the same force that decimated me will be the nail in the coffin for the extortion known as lakewood. all the comments show how much bitterness this system has caused and god hates it.

221

 Dec 10, 2008 at 01:23 AM car mavin Says:

what lexus? Evrybody knows he drives a Accord

222

 Dec 10, 2008 at 01:16 AM Avigdor Says:

Yes I was in a Lakewood Type Kollel but I was brave enough to leave and get a degree. Boruch Hashem now I am able to feed my family. Unfortunately there are a lot of yungerleit that simply never grow up. It is easy for some to never try and feel so heilig (not everyone) , I couldn't see my poor wife work while... Many thought I went off the derech... I honestly don't care any more. There will be those who wouldn't want to marry my kids because I work , my children are better off without such shidduchim. Let me tell you the Chassidish got it right.

223

 Dec 10, 2008 at 12:46 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #74  
Anonymous Says:

How do you know they work out of there dining room table?

Are you there when they do it? You must be one his crony’s.

Yes he has worked tirelessly to make sure the mosed runs, but not leshem shomayim, he has gotten a salary for that, and the fact is that he was offered 1 million dollars to leave, you know what his response was? I want 2 million and I will go.

And what right does he have treating people the way he was? He went against the rosh hayishvahs when it came to the school situation. One of the askonim said, the mashgiach said once, “what can I do if he does not listen, I asked him to do things and he just does what he feels like”

So take that and shove it, You idiot.

He does not want working people in his school, but how does he expect to pay for all the bills?

He only wants learning people; well guess what, there are working people that learn more than he does.

Oh one last thing, NO I am NOT a parent that got refused from this school, I don’t even have girls.

So much of this is hearsay. Rechilus in its worst form.

For the record: I have a son in the Cheder and a daughter in Bais Faiga. My husband works and did when they first accepted my son and then my daughter 3 years later. The majority of the parents in my kids' classes work.

224

 Dec 10, 2008 at 12:44 AM Kollelman Says:

Reply to #206  
Joseph Says:

To #74:

I don't believe for a second that story of the Cheder offering him a million dollars to leave because:

1)Where on earth is this suffering school getting a million dollars to pay him off?
2)He would have to be a total moron not to accept it and
3)Why do they even have to PAY him off? BM didn't start the school, so why doesn't whoever is actually in CHARGE (there's got to be SOMEONE or some people) boot him?

But I think the answer to 3 is that the Rosh Yeshivas were happy to let him handle the place with all the headaches it entailed on his conditions that he does it his way and no one meddles into his affairs. Well, the time has come for them to deal with their own headache and get rid of BM.

Another hot potato: Are all the local playgroups that follow Bais Faiga's schedule ALSO going to be closed? :)

And why are there three different opinions about Sorah Schneirer's life??? One would think it would be easy to ascertain if she was single/childless/divorced.

"And why are there three different opinions about Sorah Schneirer's life??? One would think it would be easy to ascertain if she was single/childless/divorced."

To avoid unneccessary machlokes:

It could be all three shitas are true. First she was single later divorced and throughout she remained childless.

As a Kollelman I am marbitz torah by sharing my daas torah with unlearned yidden.

225

 Dec 10, 2008 at 12:32 AM Jacob Says:

Our mechancim teach our kids to be mivatir and they teach our kids that hakol biday shomayim. They teach the virtue of kol diovid rachmane litav ovid. They teach the story of Nuchim ish Gamzu and the gadlus of realizing that gam ZU litoive. They teach in school that sechar mumines and parnose are all toli on the aybishter. They teach us that we have to be soimayach bichelke. Where do these michanchim get the audacity and the chutzpe to take off from their obligation because they are unhappy with the financial straits of the moisid?? The word "strike" is so offensive and goyish it's not even mentionable. Do they not realize that it's bad times in the working world? They should say GAM ZU LITOIVE and teach our kids that af al pi kain. Even though the money is tight, we will do our avoidas koidish!! But NO! These mechanchim are greedy like the rest of the working velt! Gelt uber alles!! What kind of message are they sending to the innocent kinderlach!! They should all be fired and hang their heads in shame. In Europe the mechanchim were totally lishem shomayim. Today, some have big houses and imported minivans. It's unspeakable how the gashmi penetrated our culture here in Lakewood. This is what has evolved from working people infesting OUR toiredige world.

226

 Dec 10, 2008 at 06:27 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

These teachers have not been payed for 3 months.
I would like to see how you would react when your main income is declined Chas Vesholem for 3 months?

227

 Dec 10, 2008 at 06:21 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
Anonymous Says:

of couse no one has the money to pay teachers. lakewood is a community founded on Tzedakah. Recesession=rich people losing money= lakewood having no money=people learning in kollel or being supported by wife's whom are secretaries are going to have less than they did before. Maybe they should have learned some sort of trade, just in case a situation like this arises, and they are unable to be supported by others due to the economy.

My dear frien thanks for your sincere concern. Most of the rich working people that learned a trade and saved money for retirement, ARE the ones who lost money and are in very bad shape. The one who are learning didn't lose money and it didn't effect them.
They still give their 20% of Maaser.

228

 Dec 10, 2008 at 12:55 AM Kollel or Bust Says:

Chinuch isn't a "job". The cohen and levi served in the bais hamikdosh. They never got a check! The sanhedrin - did they get a check. Teachers - this isn't a job, so get back to your posts and serve HKB"H!

If you wonder about parnossa - that comes from HKB"H (or the in-laws)!

Serve and you will be rewarded. Abandon your posts and you are a deserter.

229

 Dec 10, 2008 at 08:13 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #228  
Kollel or Bust Says:

Chinuch isn't a "job". The cohen and levi served in the bais hamikdosh. They never got a check! The sanhedrin - did they get a check. Teachers - this isn't a job, so get back to your posts and serve HKB"H!

If you wonder about parnossa - that comes from HKB"H (or the in-laws)!

Serve and you will be rewarded. Abandon your posts and you are a deserter.

Why dont you say the same thing to the men learning in Kolel?

230

 Dec 10, 2008 at 08:27 AM Anonymous Says:

Can someone out there who knows exactly what is going on please write an objective and factual account of what happened to bring the school to where they are today? It is really hard to distill that kind of information from all the comments.

231

 Dec 10, 2008 at 08:27 AM moshe shmeel Says:

Reply to #169  
Anonymous Says:

Boruch Mannes drives a late model silver Honda Accord.Not much better than the typical Lakewood yungerman on government programs

Let him ride a bike and pay his teachers. They come first.

232

 Dec 10, 2008 at 08:22 AM Yoni Says:

Reply to #227  
Anonymous Says:

My dear frien thanks for your sincere concern. Most of the rich working people that learned a trade and saved money for retirement, ARE the ones who lost money and are in very bad shape. The one who are learning didn't lose money and it didn't effect them.
They still give their 20% of Maaser.

20% of what? They didnt earn a dime.

233

 Dec 10, 2008 at 08:20 AM Knishman Says:

Reply to #223  
Anonymous Says:

So much of this is hearsay. Rechilus in its worst form.

For the record: I have a son in the Cheder and a daughter in Bais Faiga. My husband works and did when they first accepted my son and then my daughter 3 years later. The majority of the parents in my kids' classes work.

Tell us how much tuition you pay and you will understand why your children are accepted. Its all about Moola Shmula $$$$$$.

234

 Dec 10, 2008 at 09:48 AM Anonymous Says:

BM does not live on a higher standard than the average guy, so stop harping on this point and making up stories.

235

 Dec 10, 2008 at 09:47 AM Anonymous Says:

It's quite ridiculous to insist that the Cheder/ Bais Faiga doesn't accept working people, whether rich or poor, just take a look at the student body.
The facts speak for themselves.

236

 Dec 10, 2008 at 09:46 AM Fotheringay-Phipps Says:

Reply to #218  
Anonymous Says:

While you make some points, I want to know why does he divert funds from BF to the Cheder? Why do the rabbeim in the Cheder get much more than teachers in BF which includes free tuition? Also, one minute BM is good friends with the Yeshiva and the next minute he's not. Make up your mind.

I've addressed the issue of LCS vs. BF earlier.

Re "the yeshiva", you seem to be confusing me with someone else. I've never claimed that he is "friends with the yeshiva". The RY of BMG have heavily backed the BF principal for years. (However, this administrator is backed by a lot of parents within the yeshiva and yeshiva community.)

237

 Dec 10, 2008 at 09:55 AM Anonymous Says:

It's simple.
If the teachers don't get paid, the kollel stipends shouldn't go out either.
Then for sure a great gevalt will be raised.

238

 Dec 10, 2008 at 10:01 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #224  
Kollelman Says:

"And why are there three different opinions about Sorah Schneirer's life??? One would think it would be easy to ascertain if she was single/childless/divorced."

To avoid unneccessary machlokes:

It could be all three shitas are true. First she was single later divorced and throughout she remained childless.

As a Kollelman I am marbitz torah by sharing my daas torah with unlearned yidden.

Lol. First I thougt there might be two dinim in RSS but when the third one came up I was lost.

239

 Dec 10, 2008 at 11:24 AM Fotheringay-Phipps Says:

Reply to #174  
Anonymous Says:

BM is very smart - of course the Cheder staff is behind him - he pays them better, on time and gives them healthy bonuses before Pesach. All of which he does NOT do for BF. Any question left as to why in the Cheder they love him unlike in BF. Wake up!

I addressed this. He favors LCS over BF because the principals of LCS listen to what he says and the principal of BF does not.

Essentially his position seems to be that if the money from tuition is enough then fine, but if he has to go begging and pleading with rich guys to lend the school enough money to keep it going, then he's going to do it for the part of the school that accepts his leadership but not for the part of the school that wants him to just send them the checks and then go away. Something in that.

Of course, everything is in the details. I am not familiar enough with the underlying issues between BM & BE to know who is right, or who is more right.

(I posted this earlier but it seems to have gotten swallowed up by the system.)

240

 Dec 10, 2008 at 11:30 AM Fotheringay-Phipps Says:

In any event, both sides seem to be digging in for the long haul, and various teachers have reopened classes in homes and basements etc. (Supposedly they were on the verge of a deal Monday night but it was scuttled at the last minute by anti-BM forces.)

Yesterday I heard from a LCS rebbe that BM wants the parents to rise up and force BF to re-open. Today my wife heard (secondhand) from a teacher that the teachers want the parents to rise up and oust BM. Personally I think that most parents are not familiar enought with the details to know which side to rise up in favor of, and so should sit it out.

241

 Dec 10, 2008 at 02:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #169  
Anonymous Says:

Boruch Mannes drives a late model silver Honda Accord.Not much better than the typical Lakewood yungerman on government programs

Who is baruch mannes?

242

 Dec 10, 2008 at 04:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

Does the school administrator get his salary? He should do more fundraising

what does the administrator getting a salary have to do with any thing

243

 Dec 10, 2008 at 04:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Why are people using the name of the administrator isn't that outright Lashon Hara

244

 Dec 10, 2008 at 05:00 PM Kollelman Says:

Reply to #39  
fed up Says:

how dare you say that............. who you fooling with your name KOLLELMAN thats exactly your stupid hashkafa lets go collecting from the working ppl while you sit on your tuchus and drink coffee all day and i am sure u have a rich shver and ur wife works with no salary because its lshem shomayim..... and btw if ur a kollelman u shouldnt be on the internet secondly shouldnt u be learning oh i am sure u go @ 9 and ur wife sees u going then u come back home to go on the internet shame on u

"if ur a kollelman u shouldnt be on the internet secondly shouldnt u be learning oh i am sure u go @ 9 and ur wife sees u going then u come back home to go on the internet shame on u"

I never go on the internet c"v, I simply send a shaliach to post my comment via proxy.

Since the internet is an Issur - the principle of "ain shaliach lidvar averah" applies, thus my proxy's actions aren't attributed to me and I remain pure and holy.

As far as bitul zman by taking up time from learning Torah to share my views on the internet - I don't consider it a batallah to be marbitz daas Torah. After all the mitzvah of talmud torah includes both "Lilmod u'Llamed" (learning and teaching others).

Finally, I never sneak home during the day to view the computer. My cell phone has access - but I never use it myself (only through a Shaliach).

Using a SHaliach for the internet is not Lifnei Iver since my shaliach would anyway access the internet (not like chazal's example of a nozir on one side of the river being reached the wine from the other side).

I have now taught the masses a few halachos and hashkofos . In this zchus the world exists, Boruch that I have this merit.

245

 Dec 10, 2008 at 04:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #241  
Anonymous Says:

Who is baruch mannes?

obviously someone important

246

 Dec 10, 2008 at 05:26 PM Kollelman Says:

I should add a few points in reply. You wrote:

"your stupid hashkafa lets go collecting from the working ppl"

There are Yissochars and there are Zevullens. I am from the yoshvei bais hamedresh (Yissachars), and you are given the opportunity to partner with me by becoming a Zevullen. You should beg Yissochars to accept your money and allow you to buy your way into Gan Eden.

"drink coffee all day "

I drink tea! But the reason for tea or coffee isn't just for the physical geshmak. You see, I am so busy learning that I don't have time to make too many brachas during the day on food. Therefore I keep drinking tea and make a new brocha on each cup to get my 100 brochas per day.

" i am sure u have a rich shver"

My shver was smart enough to marry his daughter to a talmid chochem. He realized that doing so comes at a high price, but because he is machshiv torah, he was willing to pay whatever cost.

"ur wife works with no salary because its lshem shomayim"

Actually, my wife does not work at all (my shver fully supports). Her work is to encourage me to grow in torah by waking up very early and making me delicious breakfasts. Also prepare wonderful suppers when I come home, and keeping my seforim dust free, and my clothes clean and tidy as befitting a talmid chochem.

I hope this clears up your mistaken haskofas.

247

 Dec 10, 2008 at 05:24 PM yungerman Says:

why are you leaving out the politics - from what ive been hearing the lakewood BMG establishment has been trying to assert itself as the one in charge of the school and have been trying to get rid of the administrator - they even hired a principal without his consent - so he said hes not paying until they bug off

248

 Dec 10, 2008 at 06:00 PM Gemarakup Says:

Reply to #238  
Anonymous Says:

Lol. First I thougt there might be two dinim in RSS but when the third one came up I was lost.

When there are two psukim that appear to contradict each other, the third possuk compromises between them.

249

 Dec 10, 2008 at 06:17 PM Anonymous Says:

THis shows you the value of shoving everybody into Kollel, including those who could care less to learn but just want the easy life. Easy life just mooching off the in-laws and parents and govt. programs.

THen when it comes time to pay tiution, they come up empty. Empty people harming not only their children but the parnosa of the teachers and faculty.

THe kollel systme needs major revision. I mean MAJOR.

250

 Dec 10, 2008 at 06:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Shame On You Lakewood! Stop Building your fancy Mansions and take care
of your Schools!Your priorities have to be prioritized!!!!!!!!

251

 Dec 10, 2008 at 06:54 PM aaron from los angeles Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

you're absolutely right.Teachers should give up any idea of being able to feed their families or paying the rent.After all,the Avos lived in tents so why can't they?. If this keeps up,they might even want to keep the heat going during the winter.What a chutzpah!

252

 Dec 10, 2008 at 07:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #247  
yungerman Says:

why are you leaving out the politics - from what ive been hearing the lakewood BMG establishment has been trying to assert itself as the one in charge of the school and have been trying to get rid of the administrator - they even hired a principal without his consent - so he said hes not paying until they bug off

Get your facts straight. Mrs. Epstein hired her - NOT the yeshiva. BTW she happens to be a phenomenal menaheles despite the fact the BM hasn't paid her or Mrs. Epstein one cent all year.

253

 Dec 10, 2008 at 07:29 PM Anonymous Says:

The Lakewood Cheder School was started under the auspices of Beth Medrash Govoha before B.M. became the administrator so they should have a say in ousting this dictator despot from his office.

254

 Dec 10, 2008 at 08:29 PM Anonymous Says:

For those who care about the Kavod HaTorah of R.Shmuel and R.Mattisyahu and not the dimyonos that pass for Kavod HaTorah in certain circles, you may want to ask the nephew of a certain menaheles who happens to be the owner of Corner of Second why he and his friends with very chashuva last names felt that they should barge in on a private meeting, climb through the windows, throw all of the mashgiach's kesavim on the floor and shout and scream at two eldery gedolim striving to make sholom in this town and get the girls back to school that their opinions were not wanted in Lakewood...

They seemed to be very open about which Daas Torah sent them...

255

 Dec 10, 2008 at 08:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #253  
Anonymous Says:

The Lakewood Cheder School was started under the auspices of Beth Medrash Govoha before B.M. became the administrator so they should have a say in ousting this dictator despot from his office.

They also abdicated their responsibilities, clearing the way for this despot to gain control.

256

 Dec 10, 2008 at 09:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #254  
Anonymous Says:

For those who care about the Kavod HaTorah of R.Shmuel and R.Mattisyahu and not the dimyonos that pass for Kavod HaTorah in certain circles, you may want to ask the nephew of a certain menaheles who happens to be the owner of Corner of Second why he and his friends with very chashuva last names felt that they should barge in on a private meeting, climb through the windows, throw all of the mashgiach's kesavim on the floor and shout and scream at two eldery gedolim striving to make sholom in this town and get the girls back to school that their opinions were not wanted in Lakewood...

They seemed to be very open about which Daas Torah sent them...

Impossible!!! He could NEVER have fit through a window!!!

257

 Dec 10, 2008 at 09:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #240  
Fotheringay-Phipps Says:

In any event, both sides seem to be digging in for the long haul, and various teachers have reopened classes in homes and basements etc. (Supposedly they were on the verge of a deal Monday night but it was scuttled at the last minute by anti-BM forces.)

Yesterday I heard from a LCS rebbe that BM wants the parents to rise up and force BF to re-open. Today my wife heard (secondhand) from a teacher that the teachers want the parents to rise up and oust BM. Personally I think that most parents are not familiar enought with the details to know which side to rise up in favor of, and so should sit it out.

In addition, think of the reprecussions a parent might face if they backed the loser. Parents should not have to be subjected to that.

258

 Dec 10, 2008 at 09:50 PM Sad about it Says:

Reply to #243  
Anonymous Says:

Why are people using the name of the administrator isn't that outright Lashon Hara

It is Lashon Hara to write derogatorily about him whether or not you use his name because people know anyway to whom you are referring.

259

 Dec 10, 2008 at 09:48 PM azh Says:

Reply to #225  
Jacob Says:

Our mechancim teach our kids to be mivatir and they teach our kids that hakol biday shomayim. They teach the virtue of kol diovid rachmane litav ovid. They teach the story of Nuchim ish Gamzu and the gadlus of realizing that gam ZU litoive. They teach in school that sechar mumines and parnose are all toli on the aybishter. They teach us that we have to be soimayach bichelke. Where do these michanchim get the audacity and the chutzpe to take off from their obligation because they are unhappy with the financial straits of the moisid?? The word "strike" is so offensive and goyish it's not even mentionable. Do they not realize that it's bad times in the working world? They should say GAM ZU LITOIVE and teach our kids that af al pi kain. Even though the money is tight, we will do our avoidas koidish!! But NO! These mechanchim are greedy like the rest of the working velt! Gelt uber alles!! What kind of message are they sending to the innocent kinderlach!! They should all be fired and hang their heads in shame. In Europe the mechanchim were totally lishem shomayim. Today, some have big houses and imported minivans. It's unspeakable how the gashmi penetrated our culture here in Lakewood. This is what has evolved from working people infesting OUR toiredige world.

Part of the job of a mechaneches is to be a role model. If any of these students encounter a serious lack of yashrus in the future, they will:
1. Not sweep it under the rug.
2. Give people a chance to fix the problem
3. Consult a Daas Torah - and listen.
4. Protest respectfully without loud badmouthing.
5. (in the cases of classes in teachers homes) Do what they can to minimize damage while making their point.

260

 Dec 10, 2008 at 09:56 PM I don't get you Says:

Reply to #209  
non-kollel full-tuition paying parent Says:

I am thoroughly disgusted with the executive directors non-handling of this deplorable situation. To use our childrens beloved teachers as pawns in a high-stakes power struggle is unconscionable. There is NO excuse for it. Settle your differences with your principal privately.

Hello? The note my daugfhter brought home from school said that it was the *teachers* and *moros* who are doing a work stoppage, not the administrater

261

 Dec 10, 2008 at 09:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #254  
Anonymous Says:

For those who care about the Kavod HaTorah of R.Shmuel and R.Mattisyahu and not the dimyonos that pass for Kavod HaTorah in certain circles, you may want to ask the nephew of a certain menaheles who happens to be the owner of Corner of Second why he and his friends with very chashuva last names felt that they should barge in on a private meeting, climb through the windows, throw all of the mashgiach's kesavim on the floor and shout and scream at two eldery gedolim striving to make sholom in this town and get the girls back to school that their opinions were not wanted in Lakewood...

They seemed to be very open about which Daas Torah sent them...

Especially in light of the Mashgiachs super-sensitivity to his family when he lost his father....

262

 Dec 10, 2008 at 10:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #260  
I don't get you Says:

Hello? The note my daugfhter brought home from school said that it was the *teachers* and *moros* who are doing a work stoppage, not the administrater

Exactly. The teachers and moros were forced to call a strike precisely because they were used as pawns

263

 Dec 10, 2008 at 10:30 PM Kollel Wife Says:

Reply to #246  
Kollelman Says:

I should add a few points in reply. You wrote:

"your stupid hashkafa lets go collecting from the working ppl"

There are Yissochars and there are Zevullens. I am from the yoshvei bais hamedresh (Yissachars), and you are given the opportunity to partner with me by becoming a Zevullen. You should beg Yissochars to accept your money and allow you to buy your way into Gan Eden.

"drink coffee all day "

I drink tea! But the reason for tea or coffee isn't just for the physical geshmak. You see, I am so busy learning that I don't have time to make too many brachas during the day on food. Therefore I keep drinking tea and make a new brocha on each cup to get my 100 brochas per day.

" i am sure u have a rich shver"

My shver was smart enough to marry his daughter to a talmid chochem. He realized that doing so comes at a high price, but because he is machshiv torah, he was willing to pay whatever cost.

"ur wife works with no salary because its lshem shomayim"

Actually, my wife does not work at all (my shver fully supports). Her work is to encourage me to grow in torah by waking up very early and making me delicious breakfasts. Also prepare wonderful suppers when I come home, and keeping my seforim dust free, and my clothes clean and tidy as befitting a talmid chochem.

I hope this clears up your mistaken haskofas.

You are a baal ga'avah and need to work on your midos. The world does not revolve around you and does not exist in your merit.

It sounds like your wife is really your maid or servant!

My husband also learns in kollel and worked on his middos. He now has anivus and rarely shows signs of any ego, except when he protects the kavod of his Torah.

Open a mussar sefer!

264

 Dec 10, 2008 at 10:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #259  
azh Says:

Part of the job of a mechaneches is to be a role model. If any of these students encounter a serious lack of yashrus in the future, they will:
1. Not sweep it under the rug.
2. Give people a chance to fix the problem
3. Consult a Daas Torah - and listen.
4. Protest respectfully without loud badmouthing.
5. (in the cases of classes in teachers homes) Do what they can to minimize damage while making their point.

6. Causing a hezek to a rabim (200 girls) is okay.

7. My needs come before the klal.

8. If I'm not happy, no one will be happy.

9. Money has more value than chinuch.

10. I'm here because of the money. No money - no teacher.

Yes, teach the students well!

265

 Dec 10, 2008 at 10:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Yes, I think it is a great idea,that the teachers and students should convene elsewhere, until B.M. is out, or else they should all start another school with the very capable principals at its helm.

266

 Dec 10, 2008 at 10:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #263  
Kollel Wife Says:

You are a baal ga'avah and need to work on your midos. The world does not revolve around you and does not exist in your merit.

It sounds like your wife is really your maid or servant!

My husband also learns in kollel and worked on his middos. He now has anivus and rarely shows signs of any ego, except when he protects the kavod of his Torah.

Open a mussar sefer!

Kollel wife,
Work on your sense of humor. If you didn't get that the guy was spoofing I pity your choshuve husband.

267

 Dec 10, 2008 at 11:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #226  
Anonymous Says:

These teachers have not been payed for 3 months.
I would like to see how you would react when your main income is declined Chas Vesholem for 3 months?

you still need to pay a mortgage - good intentions or not!

268

 Dec 11, 2008 at 03:43 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #264  
Anonymous Says:

6. Causing a hezek to a rabim (200 girls) is okay.

7. My needs come before the klal.

8. If I'm not happy, no one will be happy.

9. Money has more value than chinuch.

10. I'm here because of the money. No money - no teacher.

Yes, teach the students well!

You are one sick puppy.

These people have not had a paycheck in MONTHS.

269

 Dec 11, 2008 at 02:00 AM Anonymous Says:

finally finally the mafia is getting tskin down in lakewood....vhamven yoven

270

 Dec 11, 2008 at 01:57 AM Pragmatic Says:

Reply to #265  
Anonymous Says:

Yes, I think it is a great idea,that the teachers and students should convene elsewhere, until B.M. is out, or else they should all start another school with the very capable principals at its helm.

A school needs more than teachers and principals. It needs tuitiion collectors, fundraisers, cooks, secretaries, bookkeepers, janitors, not to mention minor incidentals like desks, buses and a building.

A better idea is for the teachers to return and work out their differences with the Hanhala with dayonim. I feel sorry for the person who instigated this strike, who, I am convinced, is sleepless with regret for the chilul hashem and bitul zman that it has caused. They probably thought that the threat of a strike would be enough for them to get what they want, and that an actual stoppage wouldn't have to happen.

The moral: Hizoharoo chachomim bedivraychem, or Think before you talk.

271

 Dec 11, 2008 at 01:46 AM Sad about it Says:

Reply to #262  
Anonymous Says:

Exactly. The teachers and moros were forced to call a strike precisely because they were used as pawns

They were not *forced* to do anything. If they felt that money was wrongly withheld, they could, and probably should, have settled it in a bais din. And for all those who will claim that this would be inefffective, it is the place of the bais din to issue a ksav siruv, or do as they see fit. To take action claiming support by anonymous rabbonim is IMHO a stupid move.

272

 Dec 11, 2008 at 12:54 AM Kollelman vs Kollelman Says:

Reply to #246  
Kollelman Says:

I should add a few points in reply. You wrote:

"your stupid hashkafa lets go collecting from the working ppl"

There are Yissochars and there are Zevullens. I am from the yoshvei bais hamedresh (Yissachars), and you are given the opportunity to partner with me by becoming a Zevullen. You should beg Yissochars to accept your money and allow you to buy your way into Gan Eden.

"drink coffee all day "

I drink tea! But the reason for tea or coffee isn't just for the physical geshmak. You see, I am so busy learning that I don't have time to make too many brachas during the day on food. Therefore I keep drinking tea and make a new brocha on each cup to get my 100 brochas per day.

" i am sure u have a rich shver"

My shver was smart enough to marry his daughter to a talmid chochem. He realized that doing so comes at a high price, but because he is machshiv torah, he was willing to pay whatever cost.

"ur wife works with no salary because its lshem shomayim"

Actually, my wife does not work at all (my shver fully supports). Her work is to encourage me to grow in torah by waking up very early and making me delicious breakfasts. Also prepare wonderful suppers when I come home, and keeping my seforim dust free, and my clothes clean and tidy as befitting a talmid chochem.

I hope this clears up your mistaken haskofas.

I also learn in kollel and it's sad to say that kollel yungeleit like you are embarrassing the world of torah! it appears that you think you deserve the money your father.in.law gives you or that your wife cooks you supper! BAL GAVAH! what would you do without support?! would you make some sacrifices for torah?! Or only because you drive a late model car to kollel do you bother to learn! I sit and learn without my father.in laws. support! I don't think i deserve his money just because i decided to learn,it's hard for me but i'll do it for the sake of torah! a bal gaveh like you is is better off on the streets!

273

 Dec 11, 2008 at 07:20 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #271  
Sad about it Says:

They were not *forced* to do anything. If they felt that money was wrongly withheld, they could, and probably should, have settled it in a bais din. And for all those who will claim that this would be inefffective, it is the place of the bais din to issue a ksav siruv, or do as they see fit. To take action claiming support by anonymous rabbonim is IMHO a stupid move.

I guess that that you in your infinite wisdom are smarter and more in tune with halacha than Reb Shmuel Kamenetsky and Rabbi Forschimer who both gave their go-ahead. How dare you.

274

 Dec 11, 2008 at 08:32 AM Kollel Wife Says:

Reply to #266  
Anonymous Says:

Kollel wife,
Work on your sense of humor. If you didn't get that the guy was spoofing I pity your choshuve husband.

He wasn't "spoofing" - I know a few people in Kollel that think just like him, in fact, I think I know who he is!

275

 Dec 11, 2008 at 10:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #272  
Kollelman vs Kollelman Says:

I also learn in kollel and it's sad to say that kollel yungeleit like you are embarrassing the world of torah! it appears that you think you deserve the money your father.in.law gives you or that your wife cooks you supper! BAL GAVAH! what would you do without support?! would you make some sacrifices for torah?! Or only because you drive a late model car to kollel do you bother to learn! I sit and learn without my father.in laws. support! I don't think i deserve his money just because i decided to learn,it's hard for me but i'll do it for the sake of torah! a bal gaveh like you is is better off on the streets!

You either have a fantastic sense of humor or you are the quintessential example of the stereotypical arrogant, freeloading, misogynist, holier than thou kollel guy. For the sake of the People of the Book I pray it is the former

276

 Dec 11, 2008 at 10:50 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #271  
Sad about it Says:

They were not *forced* to do anything. If they felt that money was wrongly withheld, they could, and probably should, have settled it in a bais din. And for all those who will claim that this would be inefffective, it is the place of the bais din to issue a ksav siruv, or do as they see fit. To take action claiming support by anonymous rabbonim is IMHO a stupid move.

Bist azoi frum auf yenem's cheshbon.

Let the other side call the teachers to bais din if they are so sure the teacher's have no right to walk away from jobs for which they have not been paid in MONTHS.

277

 Dec 11, 2008 at 10:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #274  
Kollel Wife Says:

He wasn't "spoofing" - I know a few people in Kollel that think just like him, in fact, I think I know who he is!

Lady,
Thats not very becoming of you to say.

278

 Dec 11, 2008 at 11:23 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #276  
Anonymous Says:

Bist azoi frum auf yenem's cheshbon.

Let the other side call the teachers to bais din if they are so sure the teacher's have no right to walk away from jobs for which they have not been paid in MONTHS.

they are only behond 2 weeks for this year and 1 or 2 weeks for last year . donr make up stories

279

 Dec 11, 2008 at 11:17 AM truant officer Says:

why are the girls not back in school yet?

280

 Dec 11, 2008 at 11:45 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #278  
Anonymous Says:

they are only behond 2 weeks for this year and 1 or 2 weeks for last year . donr make up stories

If this school is where you learned English the teachers should never get paid and all the parents deserve refunds.

281

 Dec 11, 2008 at 11:48 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #278  
Anonymous Says:

they are only behond 2 weeks for this year and 1 or 2 weeks for last year . donr make up stories

They are behind 4 weeks from last year and 5 weeks from this year. In addition to their negotiated bonuses from the last 2 years.
The Executive Director sent out letters weeks ago assuring the BF staff that the situation was resolved and that they would be paid up-to-date. Instead, he didnt pay anything and went incognito.
BM through his gross negligence 'forced' the teachers to say ENOUGH! Fix the situation.

282

 Dec 11, 2008 at 12:51 PM Anonymous Says:

The at-risk girl population should receive a healthy boost from this vacation.

283

 Dec 11, 2008 at 01:11 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #282  
Anonymous Says:

The at-risk girl population should receive a healthy boost from this vacation.

Teachers at-risk, Principals at-risk, Admistrators at-risk, Askonim at-risk, etc.

284

 Dec 11, 2008 at 04:59 PM Kollelman Says:

I have spent more than a decade learning in Kollel. To the comments critical of kollel people acting "holier than thou", I say, indeed, kollel learners ARE holier than thou!

Everyone agrees that a sefer torah is holy and to be treated with utmost respect. But little do you realize that as a kollel learner, I am more choshuv than a sefer torah, because I am a living sefer torah. Some will think that this is an arrogant statement, but let me explain:

Who is more choshuv in your eyes - the sefer Rambam or the person Rambam? How do you treat the sefer if it is in the room and how would you treat the Rambam himself if he came into the room?

I am the persona of torah, and you should never forget that. When you mock kollel learning, it is worse than mocking a sefer torah!

Everyday when I am learning in kollel, HKB"H sits opposite me and has naches from my learning. If someone supports me financially, whether my shver or the government programs, I am giving them a tremendous zchus by accepting their money. The more they give, the greater their zchus!

Of couse I am holier than thou - you who waste your days in pursuit of making another sale, how can you compare yourself with someone who sits all day in pursuit of gadlus? I sit with HKB"H while you sit with your secretaries...you wake up to serve the mighty dollar while I wake up to serve my maker!

Enough with the kollel "bashing". It comes from feeling that b'emes you are inferior in your existance. Start having derech eretz and t'nu kovod l'torah - not just the cheftza shel torah, but also the gavra shel torah!

285

 Dec 11, 2008 at 07:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

You are out of touch with reality. You live in a bubble. One day it will burst and you are in for a culture shock.

286

 Dec 11, 2008 at 08:40 PM shmo Says:

Reply to #260  
I don't get you Says:

Hello? The note my daugfhter brought home from school said that it was the *teachers* and *moros* who are doing a work stoppage, not the administrater

according to one of the teachers, they were just given these notices to hand out to the students 30 seconds before dismissal on friday which was apparently signed by the moros but the moros themselves had no idea about this strike. they were never even consulted on the issue. some teachers didnt even hand it out to the students and some teachers made notations on each one before handing out, such as removing the moros from the signature.

287

 Dec 11, 2008 at 08:35 PM Anonymous Says:

whats the deal with bmg wanting to take over BF/the cheder as part of wanting to become a university?

288

 Dec 11, 2008 at 10:30 PM Working man Says:

Reply to #284  
Kollelman Says:

I have spent more than a decade learning in Kollel. To the comments critical of kollel people acting "holier than thou", I say, indeed, kollel learners ARE holier than thou!

Everyone agrees that a sefer torah is holy and to be treated with utmost respect. But little do you realize that as a kollel learner, I am more choshuv than a sefer torah, because I am a living sefer torah. Some will think that this is an arrogant statement, but let me explain:

Who is more choshuv in your eyes - the sefer Rambam or the person Rambam? How do you treat the sefer if it is in the room and how would you treat the Rambam himself if he came into the room?

I am the persona of torah, and you should never forget that. When you mock kollel learning, it is worse than mocking a sefer torah!

Everyday when I am learning in kollel, HKB"H sits opposite me and has naches from my learning. If someone supports me financially, whether my shver or the government programs, I am giving them a tremendous zchus by accepting their money. The more they give, the greater their zchus!

Of couse I am holier than thou - you who waste your days in pursuit of making another sale, how can you compare yourself with someone who sits all day in pursuit of gadlus? I sit with HKB"H while you sit with your secretaries...you wake up to serve the mighty dollar while I wake up to serve my maker!

Enough with the kollel "bashing". It comes from feeling that b'emes you are inferior in your existance. Start having derech eretz and t'nu kovod l'torah - not just the cheftza shel torah, but also the gavra shel torah!

I, as a working man whose time in Kollel was limited, am grateful for the people like you whose hasmodo in learning is the standard which I look up to.

289

 Dec 11, 2008 at 10:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #281  
Anonymous Says:

They are behind 4 weeks from last year and 5 weeks from this year. In addition to their negotiated bonuses from the last 2 years.
The Executive Director sent out letters weeks ago assuring the BF staff that the situation was resolved and that they would be paid up-to-date. Instead, he didnt pay anything and went incognito.
BM through his gross negligence 'forced' the teachers to say ENOUGH! Fix the situation.

You are not being dan lechaf zechus

290

 Dec 11, 2008 at 10:41 PM Mike S. Says:

Reply to #225  
Jacob Says:

Our mechancim teach our kids to be mivatir and they teach our kids that hakol biday shomayim. They teach the virtue of kol diovid rachmane litav ovid. They teach the story of Nuchim ish Gamzu and the gadlus of realizing that gam ZU litoive. They teach in school that sechar mumines and parnose are all toli on the aybishter. They teach us that we have to be soimayach bichelke. Where do these michanchim get the audacity and the chutzpe to take off from their obligation because they are unhappy with the financial straits of the moisid?? The word "strike" is so offensive and goyish it's not even mentionable. Do they not realize that it's bad times in the working world? They should say GAM ZU LITOIVE and teach our kids that af al pi kain. Even though the money is tight, we will do our avoidas koidish!! But NO! These mechanchim are greedy like the rest of the working velt! Gelt uber alles!! What kind of message are they sending to the innocent kinderlach!! They should all be fired and hang their heads in shame. In Europe the mechanchim were totally lishem shomayim. Today, some have big houses and imported minivans. It's unspeakable how the gashmi penetrated our culture here in Lakewood. This is what has evolved from working people infesting OUR toiredige world.

Jacob,
I am, perhaps, fortunate that my Rebbeim tought me that paying a worker on time is a Mitzvas Aseh D'oraisa, and that failing to do so is a lav. And the Torah offers a specific reason: because the worker needs the money to live.

291

 Dec 12, 2008 at 12:00 AM Kollelman Says:

Reply to #290  
Mike S. Says:

Jacob,
I am, perhaps, fortunate that my Rebbeim tought me that paying a worker on time is a Mitzvas Aseh D'oraisa, and that failing to do so is a lav. And the Torah offers a specific reason: because the worker needs the money to live.

I'm trying hard to follow your logic.

Suppose you are right and the school is transgressing on various issurim by not paying on time, therefore...the teachers should go on strike:

...because two wrongs make a right.

...to prevent the school from continuing to transgress on these issurim.

...to publicize to the students that their school acts like reshoyim.

...because they don't need to live up to their committment to the individual students and their parents.

...if the school does something wrong, the teachers can also do something wrong.

Teachers, you are shterring my learning because I now my chavrusah needs to miss seder and babysit his children!

The school will eventually pay back your wages with a cheque, but how will you pay back my sterred learning?

Before whom will you one day need to give a cheshbon?

292

 Dec 12, 2008 at 01:36 AM "Macha" Says:

Reply to #291  
Kollelman Says:

I'm trying hard to follow your logic.

Suppose you are right and the school is transgressing on various issurim by not paying on time, therefore...the teachers should go on strike:

...because two wrongs make a right.

...to prevent the school from continuing to transgress on these issurim.

...to publicize to the students that their school acts like reshoyim.

...because they don't need to live up to their committment to the individual students and their parents.

...if the school does something wrong, the teachers can also do something wrong.

Teachers, you are shterring my learning because I now my chavrusah needs to miss seder and babysit his children!

The school will eventually pay back your wages with a cheque, but how will you pay back my sterred learning?

Before whom will you one day need to give a cheshbon?

who will your chavrusa give a din v'chesbon to? why did he not have his wife,mother or even "shviger" watch the children? these teachers followed das torah.

293

 Dec 14, 2008 at 08:22 PM Kollel or Bust Says:

Reply to #292  
"Macha" Says:

who will your chavrusa give a din v'chesbon to? why did he not have his wife,mother or even "shviger" watch the children? these teachers followed das torah.

There is no one daas torah. There are many opinions and often machlokes in daas torah. Even in a supporting daas, there is lichatchila, b'dieved, and if pressured enough, you could get a reluctant heter, sometimes based on misrepresentations of facts.

Don't fool yourself into thinking the teachers were following daas torah!

294

 Jan 02, 2009 at 01:09 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #293  
Kollel or Bust Says:

There is no one daas torah. There are many opinions and often machlokes in daas torah. Even in a supporting daas, there is lichatchila, b'dieved, and if pressured enough, you could get a reluctant heter, sometimes based on misrepresentations of facts.

Don't fool yourself into thinking the teachers were following daas torah!

they did!

295

 Mar 12, 2012 at 11:56 PM Schonfeld Says:

Reply to #26  
kollelman Says:

Where is the "dedication" of the teachers? Did Rebb. Sara Schneir ZT"L open Bais Yaakov to get a salary??!! Don't these teachers care enough about the students to work l'shem shomayim? If they want ed money, they should go into better paying proffessions! This is chinuch ha'bonos, educating the future akeres ha'bayis of the Yeshivish world. Oy, the lesson these teachers are teaching by example to these girls, oy oy.
.

or maybe they are teaching the girls to stand up for what is right and not let the men "in charge" push them around and keep food off their family's table. they work hard, and they deserve their rightful payment. if they don't do anything to help their family, they are sending their students the wrong message. they're teaching them that they are inferior to men and don't deserve what they worked hard for.

296

Sign-in to post a comment

Click here to sign-in.

Scroll Up
Advertisements:

Sell your scrap gold and broken jewelry and earn hard cash sell gold today!