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Postville, IA - Judge Again Denies Bail to Rubashkin, Dampening His Hopes to be Released for Hanukkah |
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Postville, IA - Former Agriprocessors leader Sholom Rubashkin will remain in jail, despite allegations that a judge’s refusal to grant bail amounts to discrimination against him because he is Jewish.
Rubashkin, the former top executive at the Postville meatpacking plant, has been held since Nov. 14.
Prosecutors have successfully argued against bail in the case, saying they fear Rubashkin would flee the country. Their arguments have included references to Israel's "Law of Return," which allows Jews from around the world to become Israeli citizens.
Defense lawyers contend the government claim amounts to discrimination against all Jews, and the controversy has brought national attention in the Jewish press.
Magistrate Judge Jon Scoles ruled today that Rubashkin must remain jailed. He wrote that the “Law of Return” issue is a minor part of the reason. “Defendant attaches too much significance to that single reference,” the judge wrote.
Scoles noted that law officers who arrested Rubashkin found a travel bag containing thousands of dollars in cash, his birth certificate and his children’s passports. That discovery strengthened their suspicions that he might have been preparing to flee, Scoles wrote. He added that at least one other former Agriprocessors manager is believed to have fled to Israel through Canada.
Scoles was unswayed by Rubashkin’s offer to hire a private security company to keep him under house arrest. He said that offer did not represent “new information,” which would lead to a new bail hearing.
Defense lawyers said their client would agree to numerous safeguards, including an electronic tracking bracelet and millions of dollars in bond money. They also said Israel has a strong extradition treaty with the United States.
Rubashkin’s lawyers had hoped to win his release by Hanukkah, which began Sunday night. They said they would appeal Scoles’ ruling.
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Read Comments (58) — Post Yours »
1
Dec 22, 2008 at 05:52 PM Anonymous Says:
lets all say 1 kapital theilim so that the judge will see the "light" and let him out
eisev soneh layakov , but we have have a tehilim that can help overcome ALL !!!!!
2
Dec 22, 2008 at 05:51 PM Anonymous Says:
but the ganef walks free in manhatan?
3
Dec 22, 2008 at 06:13 PM john Says:
boteach is right its not fair we the people should move from just commenting and some how should put forward a article that shows emails addresses and fone numbers where we can call to protest this unfairness i wait for the day when the blogging community will be able to with clicks make a differnce a action this should be done by posting his email address of the judge that is soo we can send him a email
4
Dec 22, 2008 at 06:12 PM Anonymous Says:
This is Jew-hatred, plain and simple.
5
Dec 22, 2008 at 06:07 PM Anonymous Says:
No, Bernie the Ganef no longer walks the streets of NY free either. That judge tightened up requirements also.
It must be pure anti-semitism. Would you believe putting Jews in Jail or Prison? Who cares that they may be criminals, but to put them in jail? Pure anti-semitism.
But, I noticed that the same people who were and are horrified that Sholom Mordechai is in Jail seem happy that Bernie is.
By the way, the judge was clear WHY bail was denied to SMR. Not the law or return, but his own actions.
6
Dec 22, 2008 at 06:05 PM remember Says:
guys New York is not america that is New York and jews can live in New York
but outside ny is and allways was like germany in the 1930's
good luck to all thw jews
7
Dec 22, 2008 at 05:59 PM Anonymous Says:
Anti Semitsm in full force.
Cant wait for MO to attack my post. At least now I can hold Bernie Maddof in their face.
8
Dec 22, 2008 at 06:38 PM murray Says:
“ but the ganef walks free in manhatan? ”
Each case is probably judged on its own merit. Why confuse the issue with B.T.G.?
Bernie The Ganef probably didn't show any outward signs of intent to flee.
9
Dec 22, 2008 at 06:37 PM Anonymous Says:
Extradition policy has kept mondrowitz away from justice 25 years. Why should the US trust Israel?
10
Dec 22, 2008 at 06:36 PM safetyFirst Says:
imagine that...a guy has a suitcase with passports and money.....could be preparing for mashiach.....or c"v an anti-semitic pogrom....the 10 grand they found in the bag is a joke....he was keeping it around for any issues that come up....its obviously a safe place, so passports were kept there too....if he had even a quarter mil there, maybe that could be considered "planning to escape"...but with a whole family here, u think he's running away on a dime with only 10 grand!?
11
Dec 22, 2008 at 06:35 PM Anonymous Says:
Madoff had no where to flee..he robbed people from over the world and the safest place for him now is Rikers Island.....Israel,switzerland both countries took major hits from this madoff ganef..i am sure they will execute him the minute he steps on any country soil......Rubashkin is no way a flight risk with his life and family here in the USA....Maybe hashem will chnage his Mazel but we need to be MISPALEL more for him ...Please say a extra kapitel every day for Shulem ben ?
Freilichen chanukah
12
Dec 22, 2008 at 08:11 PM Anonymous Says:
Shalom Mordechai Halevi ben Rivka
13
Dec 22, 2008 at 08:10 PM shmuck Says:
Why are we wasting valuable time on "fighting for the post office to be open" (on sundy) when we have a "Yid in prison we should daven and learn like me and my brother
And what's up with the people these days
14
Dec 22, 2008 at 08:07 PM Chana Rivka Says:
“ Madoff had no where to flee..he robbed people from over the world and the safest place for him now is Rikers Island.....Israel,switzerland both countries took major hits from this madoff ganef..i am sure they will execute him the minute he steps on any country soil......Rubashkin is no way a flight risk with his life and family here in the USA....Maybe hashem will chnage his Mazel but we need to be MISPALEL more for him ...Please say a extra kapitel every day for Shulem ben ?
Freilichen chanukah ”
Shalom Mordechai HaLevi ben Rivka
15
Dec 22, 2008 at 08:46 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:
I haven't believed for one minute this is antisemitism. But I too will join in saying an extra kappitel for SMR.
16
Dec 22, 2008 at 08:42 PM Anonymous Says:
“ No, Bernie the Ganef no longer walks the streets of NY free either. That judge tightened up requirements also.
It must be pure anti-semitism. Would you believe putting Jews in Jail or Prison? Who cares that they may be criminals, but to put them in jail? Pure anti-semitism.
But, I noticed that the same people who were and are horrified that Sholom Mordechai is in Jail seem happy that Bernie is.
By the way, the judge was clear WHY bail was denied to SMR. Not the law or return, but his own actions. ”
who do you wanna fool by saying the judge was very clear?, why don't you write the other supposed reasons the judge denied bail? because once you will write the reasons everyone will see how nonsense it is!
If you wanna go ahead and write the judges nonsense reasons please be honest and specific, write exactly how much money he had in the bag, whose passports he had, how many children, and etc. don't try to paint a picture like there is any real reason, write it out clearly so everyone can see your lies!!!
17
Dec 22, 2008 at 07:57 PM Tehillim Says:
Is it Sholom Mordechai ben Rivkah?
18
Dec 22, 2008 at 07:53 PM Chaim Eliezer Says:
What would happen if ch"v Sholom Rubashkin did jump bail? Would his supporters be suddenly shocked and saddened, and do their utmost to bring him to justice? Or would they do all they could to keep him from getting caught?
Nobody can hide from the law without help. Were I Judge Scoles I'd worry less about the Israeli government and more about tens of thousands of individual Jews, many of whom we've heard from on these message boards.
19
Dec 22, 2008 at 07:13 PM Heartbroken old friend of the Rubashkins Says:
Please say tehillim for Sholom Mordecai HaLevi ben Rifkah.
Know Sholom Mordecai and his wife Leah for years. They are top notch people who don't deserve this. Sholom Mordecai has a heart of gold and would give anyone the shirt off his back. He is not a hard nosed businessman or a crook. He got into trouble mainly because he is a bit naive and always ready to give help to anyone, even goyim.
20
Dec 22, 2008 at 07:12 PM Anonymous Says:
“ guys New York is not america that is New York and jews can live in New York
but outside ny is and allways was like germany in the 1930's
good luck to all thw jews ”
I moved from NY area years ago, and have been all over the country. True NY is one of the main bastions of Liberalism. But, I tell you, I experiences less anti-semitism outside these Liberal areas than in them.
I find those same people who do not give special favors to Jews, treat all more fairly, including the Jews.
I experienced less anti-semitism in The South, than in Brooklyn.
All over the USA, away from these Jewish population centers, there is much more tolerance towards Jews, than the non-observant Jews have towards the observanat Jews.
21
Dec 22, 2008 at 07:10 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Madoff had no where to flee..he robbed people from over the world and the safest place for him now is Rikers Island.....Israel,switzerland both countries took major hits from this madoff ganef..i am sure they will execute him the minute he steps on any country soil......Rubashkin is no way a flight risk with his life and family here in the USA....Maybe hashem will chnage his Mazel but we need to be MISPALEL more for him ...Please say a extra kapitel every day for Shulem ben ?
Freilichen chanukah ”
VIN has done a wonderful job keeping us updated on this matter but I think you have it backwards. We need to be mispalel for all the poor neshamas who were exploited by Rubashkin who are rotting in federal jails awaiting deportation
22
Dec 22, 2008 at 07:08 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Each case is probably judged on its own merit. Why confuse the issue with B.T.G.?
Bernie The Ganef probably didn't show any outward signs of intent to flee. ”
the difference is that bernie admitted to his guilt . MR "Rubashkin kosher "did not and thats why the judge is worried more about him then birnie. Icant blame the judge, can you??
23
Dec 22, 2008 at 06:49 PM 20 not 10 Says:
“ imagine that...a guy has a suitcase with passports and money.....could be preparing for mashiach.....or c"v an anti-semitic pogrom....the 10 grand they found in the bag is a joke....he was keeping it around for any issues that come up....its obviously a safe place, so passports were kept there too....if he had even a quarter mil there, maybe that could be considered "planning to escape"...but with a whole family here, u think he's running away on a dime with only 10 grand!? ”
It was 20 grand; not 10 grand.... and a gym bag is a "safe place".... really???
stop finding excuses for him...... tell him to do teshuva, show remorse, and appeal to the judges mercy.... and apologize to ALL YIDDEN for the massive Chilul Hashem he has made.......
24
Dec 22, 2008 at 06:46 PM Yitzchok Says:
I also agree that had this case been in NY, he would have gotten bail, however in America's heartland, there is no way they are going to let the "Jew" out on bail. This is the defining trial in this Judges carear, he is is not about to screw this up. I say again that based on the Judges past comments the US justice department needs to have a hard look at the way the judge has handled the case so far.
25
Dec 22, 2008 at 06:43 PM Anonymous Says:
“ No, Bernie the Ganef no longer walks the streets of NY free either. That judge tightened up requirements also.
It must be pure anti-semitism. Would you believe putting Jews in Jail or Prison? Who cares that they may be criminals, but to put them in jail? Pure anti-semitism.
But, I noticed that the same people who were and are horrified that Sholom Mordechai is in Jail seem happy that Bernie is.
By the way, the judge was clear WHY bail was denied to SMR. Not the law or return, but his own actions. ”
prosecutars will find hundreds of reason to put a JEW away...do u really think that if he had in his drawer his kids passport and a few thousand dollars he would flee the country? They searched his entire apartment and found his personal belongings and he found his BULLET to show the judge to make him a flight risk..Yes pure anti semetisim...
26
Dec 22, 2008 at 09:27 PM YID Says:
Very shocking to see how some of the writers could express themselves so negative against Rubashkin, and at the same time praise the Justice. A Jew who views the Goy in a positive light, and the Yid in a negative light has proven how far his Neshomah has fallen. There is no question that this matter reveals us the old Mamer Chazal that Issav Sonah L'Yakkov. It is well known that Rubashkin had saved thousands of Jews from not eating Treif. As of today all of the big chain stores throughout USA have stopped selling Kosher Meat, as there's no more a Rubashkin production. Rubashkin's is not a matter of a private business, it's a matter of supplying Kosher Meat to Yidden who would otherwise buy Non-Kosher Meat. Every one who knows the Rubashkins knows them for people who would have scarified themselves for an other Yid. It's our turn to be Mispalel for Shalom Mordechai HaLevi ben Rivka. It's simply a Masei Soten to deprive Yidden from the opportunity to acquire Kosher Meat. Our statement that the Judge is simply fulfiling the "Eisev Soneh Layakov" is not based simply only because a Jew is at stake. It's just obvious to any legitimate reader that so many criminals, and murders are granted a bail, while this fellow Jew who is relevant a minor case, and has not been granted a bail, despite of the insurance to make his escape impossible. Whoever disagrees, should check if their soul loves more a Goy than a Yid. As a Yid (non-Lebovitch, although I do admire them) I'm in pain for Shalom Mordechai Halevi ben Rivka.
Every prayer counts. Lets have the Zechus that our Tefillah should grant Rubashkin his release, and grant Jews over the world their opportunity to eat Koshers.
27
Dec 22, 2008 at 09:39 PM Anonymous Says:
“ imagine that...a guy has a suitcase with passports and money.....could be preparing for mashiach.....or c"v an anti-semitic pogrom....the 10 grand they found in the bag is a joke....he was keeping it around for any issues that come up....its obviously a safe place, so passports were kept there too....if he had even a quarter mil there, maybe that could be considered "planning to escape"...but with a whole family here, u think he's running away on a dime with only 10 grand!? ”
Hey it's chanukah, not purim.
29
Dec 22, 2008 at 11:05 PM Wishing them all the best Says:
Yes, Yes Goyim dislike Jews and Frum Jews all the more. So we have one more reason to live by the law of the land and not try to pull shtick, because if we get caught, they won't have rachmunus.
Nebach for the Rubashkin kids and to Sholom as well. We all hope he gets out free and exonerated, but this sina and bias should have been expected. Everyone who plays with the system and doesn't play by the rules remember this ma'ase. And remember : Yes Goyim dislike Jews and Frum Jews all the more so stay clean!
30
Dec 22, 2008 at 10:53 PM Worked there Says:
“ VIN has done a wonderful job keeping us updated on this matter but I think you have it backwards. We need to be mispalel for all the poor neshamas who were exploited by Rubashkin who are rotting in federal jails awaiting deportation ”
Mr 21, you are a liar and a slanderer (motzi shem ra). There is no proof whatsoever that anyone was exploited.
31
Dec 22, 2008 at 10:51 PM Yosef Says:
“ Please say tehillim for Sholom Mordecai HaLevi ben Rifkah.
Know Sholom Mordecai and his wife Leah for years. They are top notch people who don't deserve this. Sholom Mordecai has a heart of gold and would give anyone the shirt off his back. He is not a hard nosed businessman or a crook. He got into trouble mainly because he is a bit naive and always ready to give help to anyone, even goyim. ”
I second what you wrote. Here is something amazing. When you have a wealthy person who was dishonest and exploitative then you find that people far away - those who don't really know him - think highly of him, after all, he is a big gvir and a baal tzedakah, etc. And the people in his 'neighborhood' know what he is *really* like.
Here you have just the opposite: the people far away, who don't know SMR from Adam (they know him only from the media and the "Forward") -- they think he is ______ , but anyone WHO ACTUALLY KNOWS HIM, whether from a small interaction, or from a lengthy extended relationship, says he is a wonderful person, has a heart of gold, and is not at all a crook (ch'v). At the worst, as number 28 says, he was naive and always ready to help others.
I personally know him, and I know him as YES, an ehrliche, frumme, yid, YES, that is right, you read me correctly AN EHRLICHE FRUMME YID!! Most of you, including myself, would probably not approach his ankle in stature.
Now, you want to go ahead and bash what I wrote, because you (who surely keeps shmiras halashon and is 'don lekaf zechus') read differently in the "Forward" or in the newspapers, or better yet, you heard the slander from the words of that kid who went on an ego trip founding "Uri Ltzedek", then you should know you are walking on thin ice (between you and G-d). Don't go saying on your day of 'din vcheshbon' that "you didn't know", because dozens of Eidim have testified to his character.
32
Dec 22, 2008 at 10:45 PM Anonymous Says:
“ guys New York is not america that is New York and jews can live in New York
but outside ny is and allways was like germany in the 1930's
good luck to all thw jews ”
You are sick in your head if you thinnk anywhere in the USA looks like 1930s Deutschland.
Al tiftach peh lasatan
33
Dec 22, 2008 at 10:15 PM Anonymous Says:
anti-semite. wonder how he would treat the madoff nogoodnick
34
Dec 22, 2008 at 09:47 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Very shocking to see how some of the writers could express themselves so negative against Rubashkin, and at the same time praise the Justice. A Jew who views the Goy in a positive light, and the Yid in a negative light has proven how far his Neshomah has fallen. There is no question that this matter reveals us the old Mamer Chazal that Issav Sonah L'Yakkov. It is well known that Rubashkin had saved thousands of Jews from not eating Treif. As of today all of the big chain stores throughout USA have stopped selling Kosher Meat, as there's no more a Rubashkin production. Rubashkin's is not a matter of a private business, it's a matter of supplying Kosher Meat to Yidden who would otherwise buy Non-Kosher Meat. Every one who knows the Rubashkins knows them for people who would have scarified themselves for an other Yid. It's our turn to be Mispalel for Shalom Mordechai HaLevi ben Rivka. It's simply a Masei Soten to deprive Yidden from the opportunity to acquire Kosher Meat. Our statement that the Judge is simply fulfiling the "Eisev Soneh Layakov" is not based simply only because a Jew is at stake. It's just obvious to any legitimate reader that so many criminals, and murders are granted a bail, while this fellow Jew who is relevant a minor case, and has not been granted a bail, despite of the insurance to make his escape impossible. Whoever disagrees, should check if their soul loves more a Goy than a Yid. As a Yid (non-Lebovitch, although I do admire them) I'm in pain for Shalom Mordechai Halevi ben Rivka.
Every prayer counts. Lets have the Zechus that our Tefillah should grant Rubashkin his release, and grant Jews over the world their opportunity to eat Koshers.
”
lylda lyda many who ate Rubshkin kosher have regrets.
35
Dec 22, 2008 at 11:37 PM T S Says:
Any way you slice this bologna, it is too strict to keep him in the can. Make a high bail, but the severity of the crime doesn not warrant the severity of the decision re bail. Alleged murderers have gotten out on bail. This is small town US hogging the limelight as long as he can.
Unfortunately it is the era where and when the bad side gets what the good side should and the good side gets what the bad side should.
If you are a good person, watch your backside.
(NO, I'm not justifying any crimes. There' s been no court case, no convictions, only white collar crime allegations. The man is entitled to air until his day in court. This is a stain on the American justice system).
36
Dec 22, 2008 at 11:12 PM Ohy Nebach Says:
http://www.vosizneias.com/24657/2008/12/22/new-square-ny-former-village-clerk-could-be-returned-to-us-in-january-to-face-federal-charges/
http://www.vosizneias.com/24589/2008/12/21/brooklyn-ny-lawyer-asks-ag-mukasey-to-intervene-in-mondrowitz-case/
Look here to see why the judge is not so far off. We nabach are sometimes our own worst enemies.
37
Dec 23, 2008 at 04:36 AM bestwatchman Says:
“ It was 20 grand; not 10 grand.... and a gym bag is a "safe place".... really???
stop finding excuses for him...... tell him to do teshuva, show remorse, and appeal to the judges mercy.... and apologize to ALL YIDDEN for the massive Chilul Hashem he has made....... ”
I don't know about you, in my house there is one drawer with all our passports, birth-certificates and anything else important-----Do you think we as a family are trying to disappear??? REDICULOUS
38
Dec 23, 2008 at 02:44 AM Anonymous Says:
“ It was 20 grand; not 10 grand.... and a gym bag is a "safe place".... really???
stop finding excuses for him...... tell him to do teshuva, show remorse, and appeal to the judges mercy.... and apologize to ALL YIDDEN for the massive Chilul Hashem he has made....... ”
wow! really! 20 grand +in a gym bag! he should get capital punishment for this!!!
39
Dec 23, 2008 at 09:00 AM ruserious? Says:
/hey both broke the law. why should they both be on bail. how would you feel if Ganef stole YOUR money? this isn't anti smetism. if a black guy did this you would be saying things left and right. shame on you. instead of reading tehellim for this jerk read tehillim for the orphans and sick children who NEED it. shame on you guys!!!
40
Dec 23, 2008 at 09:05 AM ruserious? Says:
In reply to Yosef #31, many criminals, rapists, molestors, murderers also have family and friends whom testify about their character and how much they give to tzedaka and how many people they helped. Was Rubashkin to naïve to carry a wholle business? Yeah right!!!
41
Dec 23, 2008 at 09:56 AM Kogan Says:
“ No, Bernie the Ganef no longer walks the streets of NY free either. That judge tightened up requirements also.
It must be pure anti-semitism. Would you believe putting Jews in Jail or Prison? Who cares that they may be criminals, but to put them in jail? Pure anti-semitism.
But, I noticed that the same people who were and are horrified that Sholom Mordechai is in Jail seem happy that Bernie is.
By the way, the judge was clear WHY bail was denied to SMR. Not the law or return, but his own actions. ”
Judge is just covering his you know what. Because in the original document denying bail the law of return for Jews in Israel is a major reason.
It is anti Semitic no matter how you slice it.
Again he Rubashkin is not accused of violent crimes, and is providing more than enough assurances that he will not flee.
42
Dec 23, 2008 at 09:30 AM Gadolwannabe Says:
I feel sorry for Judge Mukasey, the AG and highest ranking observant Jew in the country must be torn apart by his decision to support the local prosecutors. He must feel that there is compelling evidence that Rubashkin is a flight risk.
43
Dec 23, 2008 at 10:55 AM Yosef Says:
“ In reply to Yosef #31, many criminals, rapists, molestors, murderers also have family and friends whom testify about their character and how much they give to tzedaka and how many people they helped. Was Rubashkin to naïve to carry a wholle business? Yeah right!!! ”
Mr #40, you missed my point entirely.
a) I wasn't just talking about his friends and family. Anyone who met him was struck by his character. He is a very ehrliche yid. I'm not saying he didn't make any mistakes.
b) I have yet to hear from ONE PERSON who actually knew him, to testify otherwise. All the trash you hear is from the Forward and other media organs. These very same who have been leading a holy war against Agri for years. And as Shmuely Boteach pointed out, they clearly dislike the frum, Jewish butcher with the beard.
c) Before participating in Motzi Shem Ra, the burden of proof is on YOU, the talker, the gossiper, that what you are saying is 100% true. If you do participate in Motzi Shem Ra, you will have to answer to G-d. Because not only is this Motzi Shem Ra, but a lynching in the very real sense of the word, with real consequences. The reason why the judge and the prosecution can come down so unfairly hard is because they have the impression that the entire Jewish community is against him. That makes those who give that impression an accessory to the crime. Death by a thousand cuts they call it.
44
Dec 23, 2008 at 11:06 AM Anonymous Says:
“ wow! really! 20 grand +in a gym bag! he should get capital punishment for this!!! ”
do you know what capital punishment is? its obvious that you are cluless
45
Dec 23, 2008 at 11:12 AM just in Says:
Rubashkin Adds Former Mob Lawyer To Legal Team
46
Dec 23, 2008 at 12:06 PM 12, not 20 Says:
“ It was 20 grand; not 10 grand.... and a gym bag is a "safe place".... really???
stop finding excuses for him...... tell him to do teshuva, show remorse, and appeal to the judges mercy.... and apologize to ALL YIDDEN for the massive Chilul Hashem he has made....... ”
FYI, it was 12k, not 20k, in the bag, and at the hearing they showed a receipt for 1800 bill paid in cash.
The prosecutors guesstimated 20 - they said they didn't have time to count it because they had agreed to finish the search before Shabbos (it was a Friday). Not even the prosecution will stand behind the number 20, but all the Rubashkin-bashers take it as fact.
I was in the audience sitting 2 feet away from the prosecutor by the original hearing so I know this. I also spoke to the people who counted the money afterwards - it was only 12,000.
And you think he was really going to run based on this farshtunkene bag?! What was in the bag?
His kids passports - you think he was going to run with his kids??
His and his wifes birth certificates - a birth certificate is useless for travel, especially if you are going to "change your identity." What the heck could he have done with those birth certificates?
A few silver coins - how much money do you think a few silver coins are worth? I am told they were silver half dollars.
This whole bag thing was taken waay out of proportion.
47
Dec 23, 2008 at 01:11 PM Anonymous Says:
“ FYI, it was 12k, not 20k, in the bag, and at the hearing they showed a receipt for 1800 bill paid in cash.
The prosecutors guesstimated 20 - they said they didn't have time to count it because they had agreed to finish the search before Shabbos (it was a Friday). Not even the prosecution will stand behind the number 20, but all the Rubashkin-bashers take it as fact.
I was in the audience sitting 2 feet away from the prosecutor by the original hearing so I know this. I also spoke to the people who counted the money afterwards - it was only 12,000.
And you think he was really going to run based on this farshtunkene bag?! What was in the bag?
His kids passports - you think he was going to run with his kids??
His and his wifes birth certificates - a birth certificate is useless for travel, especially if you are going to "change your identity." What the heck could he have done with those birth certificates?
A few silver coins - how much money do you think a few silver coins are worth? I am told they were silver half dollars.
This whole bag thing was taken waay out of proportion. ”
I agree with you 100%, you said it very well
48
Dec 23, 2008 at 01:41 PM Litvak Says:
“ FYI, it was 12k, not 20k, in the bag, and at the hearing they showed a receipt for 1800 bill paid in cash.
The prosecutors guesstimated 20 - they said they didn't have time to count it because they had agreed to finish the search before Shabbos (it was a Friday). Not even the prosecution will stand behind the number 20, but all the Rubashkin-bashers take it as fact.
I was in the audience sitting 2 feet away from the prosecutor by the original hearing so I know this. I also spoke to the people who counted the money afterwards - it was only 12,000.
And you think he was really going to run based on this farshtunkene bag?! What was in the bag?
His kids passports - you think he was going to run with his kids??
His and his wifes birth certificates - a birth certificate is useless for travel, especially if you are going to "change your identity." What the heck could he have done with those birth certificates?
A few silver coins - how much money do you think a few silver coins are worth? I am told they were silver half dollars.
This whole bag thing was taken waay out of proportion. ”
EVERYTHING WAS TAKEN WAY OUT OF PROPORTION. INCLUDING YOUR COMMENTS.
He and his family did a lot of bad stuff while running the company. He put other jewish establishments out of business. I don't care how frum you think he is. He and his company closed up many businesses all across the US. Frum businesses. Kosher butcher shops and groceries. Philadelphia, Phoenix, Minneapolis, Florida.
You might claim that 'business is business'. That was pure wickednes and greed on his part.
49
Dec 23, 2008 at 02:30 PM Dave Says:
“ FYI, it was 12k, not 20k, in the bag, and at the hearing they showed a receipt for 1800 bill paid in cash.
The prosecutors guesstimated 20 - they said they didn't have time to count it because they had agreed to finish the search before Shabbos (it was a Friday). Not even the prosecution will stand behind the number 20, but all the Rubashkin-bashers take it as fact.
I was in the audience sitting 2 feet away from the prosecutor by the original hearing so I know this. I also spoke to the people who counted the money afterwards - it was only 12,000.
And you think he was really going to run based on this farshtunkene bag?! What was in the bag?
His kids passports - you think he was going to run with his kids??
His and his wifes birth certificates - a birth certificate is useless for travel, especially if you are going to "change your identity." What the heck could he have done with those birth certificates?
A few silver coins - how much money do you think a few silver coins are worth? I am told they were silver half dollars.
This whole bag thing was taken waay out of proportion. ”
All you need to cross the border into Canada is a Birth Certificate. No passport required.
50
Dec 23, 2008 at 03:40 PM #46 Says:
Dave: WRONG. You need a passport.
Past that, he was wearing an anklet and is hours from the nearest border, more than enough time to put his name on the blacklist, it it isn't already. If you think he would/could cross somewhere besides for official border crossings, then there is no need for any documents at all. Either way the birth certificates are worthless for travel.
Litvak: You have absolutely no right, not by Torah standards, not by legal standards, and not by moral standards, to make any such statements. Until you hear both sides of the story, along with some modicum of proof, you are talking baloney. The Torah doesn't even allow those assigning guilt to hear one side without the other present, never mind judging without hearing the other side at all. You have every right to be ignorant, but no right to hurt others with your ignorance.
51
Dec 23, 2008 at 05:36 PM Anonymous Says:
To # 50
#46 Says: Dave: WRONG. You need a passport.
Past that, he was wearing an anklet and is hours from the nearest border, more than enough time to put his name on the blacklist, it it isn't already. If you think he would/could cross somewhere besides for official border crossings, then there is no need for any documents at all. Either way the birth certificates are worthless for travel.
*******************************************************************************
All he has to do is get into someone's trunk, break the ankle bracelet and close the trunk. HE is gone.
Then - trim the beard and 10,000 lubabs will give him a passport top go anywhere. If he is sneaky enough to hire child labor and forge ID cards and switch labels on meat to show that everything is 'bais yosef', then I put nothing past him of his family.
Litvak: You have absolutely no right, not by Torah standards, not by legal standards, and not by moral standards, to make any such statements. Until you hear both sides of the story, along with some modicum of proof, you are talking baloney. The Torah doesn't even allow those assigning guilt to hear one side without the other present, never mind judging without hearing the other side at all. You have every right to be ignorant, but no right to hurt others with your ignorance.
***********************************************************************
That must be the Rubashkin Torah you are quoting. It says - attack, attack, attack like a chamor blei daas when you are threatened with the truth. Torah standards, legal standards, moral standards - since when did that bother Rubashkin?
Exactly which claim was wrong? Please say what you think was wrong. I do not see you blasting milhouse or matza local when they open up their mouths.
52
Dec 23, 2008 at 05:05 PM #46 Says:
I seem to be mistaken regarding the passport requirement. I think it was supposed to change but was delayed, or something. At any rate, my other point still stands. His own birth certificate with his own name would be worthless for travel.
53
Dec 23, 2008 at 04:54 PM Dave Says:
“ Dave: WRONG. You need a passport.
Past that, he was wearing an anklet and is hours from the nearest border, more than enough time to put his name on the blacklist, it it isn't already. If you think he would/could cross somewhere besides for official border crossings, then there is no need for any documents at all. Either way the birth certificates are worthless for travel.
Litvak: You have absolutely no right, not by Torah standards, not by legal standards, and not by moral standards, to make any such statements. Until you hear both sides of the story, along with some modicum of proof, you are talking baloney. The Torah doesn't even allow those assigning guilt to hear one side without the other present, never mind judging without hearing the other side at all. You have every right to be ignorant, but no right to hurt others with your ignorance.
”
I'm sorry, but you are wrong.
Until January 31st, 2008, all that was necessary to cross into Canada by land was a verbal statement that you were an American citizen.
Between January 31st, 2008, and June 1st, 2009, American citizens aged 19 and up will require a photo ID and proof of citizenship, in the form of either a birth certificate or a passport.
After June 1st, 2009 (assuming they don't move the date again), all American citizens ages 16 and up will require either a passport or a special passcard to cross the border.
So, no, at this point, all that would be needed to cross the border at an official station would be the birth certificate that was in his travel bag(*) along with the cash.
(*) The fact that the documents and money were in a travel bag and packed, rather than being in the safes (which were unlocked and standing open) in the same house was a major consideration in the denial of bail, according to the Judge.
54
Dec 23, 2008 at 03:53 PM #46 Says:
I was mistaken about the passport thing - I misread the government page.
Nevertheless, my point about the impossibility of using his own documentation still stands.
If he intended to use normal border crossings, there was ample time for authorities to be watching for him before he could reach any border, and if he intended to cross somewhere other than a border crossing than the documents are unnecessary. Either way, those birth certificates are NOT what you would pack if you were planning to run.
And again, you wouldn't run with your kids, or with their documents, and if they're not going, the wife is not going to be able to abandon them either. This whole thing is a ridiculous excuse to blame this travesty on.
Meanwhile, he is sitting in jail, on Chanuka, because although there DO exist conditions that will reasonably assure his presence at the trial, the judge can find a technicality that he interprets to mean he does not have to reopen the case, and Sholom should sit till September because the latest offer is not "new." The defense could have offered it last time. They probably would have ifthey would have thought the judge would have been so ____ as to keep him locked up even with 30+ houses and millions of dollars in bail etc.
55
Dec 23, 2008 at 06:13 PM Dave Says:
“ I was mistaken about the passport thing - I misread the government page.
Nevertheless, my point about the impossibility of using his own documentation still stands.
If he intended to use normal border crossings, there was ample time for authorities to be watching for him before he could reach any border, and if he intended to cross somewhere other than a border crossing than the documents are unnecessary. Either way, those birth certificates are NOT what you would pack if you were planning to run.
And again, you wouldn't run with your kids, or with their documents, and if they're not going, the wife is not going to be able to abandon them either. This whole thing is a ridiculous excuse to blame this travesty on.
Meanwhile, he is sitting in jail, on Chanuka, because although there DO exist conditions that will reasonably assure his presence at the trial, the judge can find a technicality that he interprets to mean he does not have to reopen the case, and Sholom should sit till September because the latest offer is not "new." The defense could have offered it last time. They probably would have ifthey would have thought the judge would have been so ____ as to keep him locked up even with 30+ houses and millions of dollars in bail etc. ”
One of the things the law involves is following the rules.
And there are limited grounds for re-opening a bail decision. Specifically, it requires new information that was not known by the defense at the time.
This didn't apply here, which means the correct legal remedy is an appeal of the ruling to a higher court. Which, if you read the Judge's ruling, he points out.
56
Dec 23, 2008 at 05:59 PM Dave Says:
“ I seem to be mistaken regarding the passport requirement. I think it was supposed to change but was delayed, or something. At any rate, my other point still stands. His own birth certificate with his own name would be worthless for travel. ”
I think you are greatly overestimating the coordination between different parts of the government.
I would actually be surprised if a border guard did anything other than wave him through, if he made a run for it.
57
Dec 23, 2008 at 07:29 PM THE ARI Says:
LISTEN UP EVERYONE. I AM STARTING A PHONE CAMPAIGN TO HAVE SHOLEM MODCHOH HATZADIK RELEASED. STARTING TOMORROW, 3RD DAY CHANUKAH, WHEN THE ALTER REBBE WAS RELEASED HIMSELF A YOIM BESUROH, EVERYONE SHOULD PHONE THE SENATOR FROM IOWA CHUCK GRASSLEY OFFICE AND REGISTER IN THE MOST FORCEFUL TERMS THE JEWISH COMMUNITY'S OUTRAGE AT SBR'S TREATMENT AND CONFINEMENT,WHILE THE LIKES OF MADOFF LIVES AT HOME WITH HIS FAMILY. THE NUMBER TO CALL TO INUNDATE GRASSLEY'S OFFICE IS 12022243744. REMEMBER THIS, OBAMA WAS QUICK TO CONDEMN AGRI FOR HIRING ILLEGAL WORKERS, JUDGING AGRI GUILTY BEFORE INNOCENT WHILE FAILING TO CONDEMN HIS AUNT WHO WAS FOUND TO BE LIVING HERE ILLEGALLY FOR YEARS. DO IT FOR THE RUBASHKINS AND DONT LET UP WITH YOUR CALLS UNTIL GRASSLEY DOES SOMETHING ABOUT IT NOW! REMEMBER ALSO WERE ALL FLIGHT RISKS NOW.
58
Dec 24, 2008 at 11:07 AM Anonymous Says:
“ LISTEN UP EVERYONE. I AM STARTING A PHONE CAMPAIGN TO HAVE SHOLEM MODCHOH HATZADIK RELEASED. STARTING TOMORROW, 3RD DAY CHANUKAH, WHEN THE ALTER REBBE WAS RELEASED HIMSELF A YOIM BESUROH, EVERYONE SHOULD PHONE THE SENATOR FROM IOWA CHUCK GRASSLEY OFFICE AND REGISTER IN THE MOST FORCEFUL TERMS THE JEWISH COMMUNITY'S OUTRAGE AT SBR'S TREATMENT AND CONFINEMENT,WHILE THE LIKES OF MADOFF LIVES AT HOME WITH HIS FAMILY. THE NUMBER TO CALL TO INUNDATE GRASSLEY'S OFFICE IS 12022243744. REMEMBER THIS, OBAMA WAS QUICK TO CONDEMN AGRI FOR HIRING ILLEGAL WORKERS, JUDGING AGRI GUILTY BEFORE INNOCENT WHILE FAILING TO CONDEMN HIS AUNT WHO WAS FOUND TO BE LIVING HERE ILLEGALLY FOR YEARS. DO IT FOR THE RUBASHKINS AND DONT LET UP WITH YOUR CALLS UNTIL GRASSLEY DOES SOMETHING ABOUT IT NOW! REMEMBER ALSO WERE ALL FLIGHT RISKS NOW. ”
Don't waste your time. As a senator, he cannot influence a federal judge.
And frankly, why should he? They want the Jewish owners of the plant to go away and the only money that will come into their coffers will be from goyim that want SMR to stay in jail.
59
Dec 25, 2008 at 12:50 AM Sherree Says:
Anyone who has spouted all this Loshon Horah and seem to know all these facts about SMR, claiming he is a criminal and he shut down other businesses, etc. My answer to you is "PROVE IT!!!!". If you know it, prove it. YOU KNOW FOR SURE he was going to run off with his bag of tricks, PROVE IT!!!! YOU KNOW FOR SURE WHAT WAS IN IT??? PROVE IT!!!
YOU KNOW FOR SURE HIS EMPLOYEES DIDN"T GET PAID? PROVE IT!!!!
YOU KNOW THAT HE COMMITTED BANK FRAUD!!!, PROVE IT!!!!!!, What exactly did he do? What makes him a criminal?
YOU KNOW FOR SURE HE EXPLOITED IMMIGRANTS!!! PROVE IT!!! As far as I heard, these workers had papers, and this is nothing new, Tyson had the same problem and so did Swift. Tyson's union had their union employees go on strike for almost one full year and go back to work just shy of the one year mark because the laws provides that if a union is out on strike for an entire year, the company can throw out the union.
YOU SEEM TO KNOW WHAT SMR WAS THINKING, FEELING, PLANNING, ETC. You don't even know him, yet YOU know everything about what was going on in his business and his life even more so than people who actually know him and his family. YOU ARE JUDGE AND JURY AND HE hasn't even gotten to trial yet when he gets to tell his side of the story. BUT YOU DON'T NEED TO HEAR THAT, you don't need to hear testimony from both sides, one side is enough. Whether there is circumstancial evidence or not doesn't matter. Whether things aren't as they appear, or whether there are explanations mean nothing to you who have already made up your minds. It is a good thing YOU GUYS do not live in Postville and YOU can't be called to jury duty, because YOU ARE already prejudiced against the defendant and you haven't even heard one word of explanation from him or his attorney.
All the charges and accusations are "alleged", that means that "it is believed" or "there is enough potential evidence to believe" that the defendent should be charged with the accusations and be brought to trial. It is also "Believed" that "everyone is innocent until PROVEN guilty" and he was not yet proven to be guilty, he was just charged with the "alleged" offenses.
So does that make you geniuses, neviim or deaf, dumb and blind?