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Baltimore, MD - State Police Claim Baltimore Man Auto Fatality Wasn't Accident |
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Last updated on: Dec 30, 2008 at 12:26 PM
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State police from the the John F. Kennedy barracks claim that the man died after he jumped into the Susquehanna River from the Millard E. Tydings Memorial Bridge on Interstate 95 near Port Deposit in Harford County.
Police said Trooper Adam Davies was on patrol and was driving north on I-95 about 7:15 a.m. when he saw a man jump into the river. Police said Davies reported the incident and moments later found an unoccupied 2007 Honda parked in the northbound right lane.
Police said Harford County firefighters and marine units of the state police and state Department of Natural Resources entered the water and recovered the man's body a short time later. The victim was taken to the nearby Tydings Marina and pronounced dead. His family was notified by New Jersey police, and the incident remains under investigation.
Police knew of no reason for the man jumping to his death.
Editors Note!
VIN News would like to apologize to our many loyal readers who rely on us for accurate, professionally researched information.
When we learned yesterday of the grim news out of Baltimore, we did diligent research, but our sources in the Jewish community and family members either had inaccurate information or deliberately provided us with inaccurate information. Additionally, we called the Maryland State Police last night, but they did not want to comment and did not release any details of this incident until this morning.
We apologize for the misinformation provided to VIN News. As news moves fast, we strive to balance professional accuracy with timeliness, and when a story carries substantial credibility as it did in this case, we post our report at the risk of contradictory facts emerging later.
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Read Comments (323) — Post Yours »
1
Dec 30, 2008 at 09:48 AM Anonymous Says:
Baruch Dayan ha Emes. Please no negative comments.
2
Dec 30, 2008 at 09:48 AM Anonymous Says:
BURACH DEIN EMES...
3
Dec 30, 2008 at 09:52 AM Anonymous Says:
was he married
4
Dec 30, 2008 at 09:52 AM Anonymous Says:
Never Judge some one until you are in his matzav
5
Dec 30, 2008 at 09:58 AM Anonymous Says:
yes please no negative comments, cause it wont be good for his neshama he was a fantastic person..he did and helped tons of people...may his wife be gebentched
6
Dec 30, 2008 at 09:58 AM Anonymous Says:
Baruch Dayan Ha Emes. So sad...
7
Dec 30, 2008 at 09:56 AM Eli Says:
Lets all get together and pray for a tikun for his neshama.
8
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:08 AM Anonymous Says:
Something doesn't make sense. First they say his car was in the river and hatzala was searching because he never checked in and they found his body later because he was thrown from the car etc... I find this version very hard to believe. It's much more likely that it was an accident. Why the change of story now?
9
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:06 AM Anonymous Says:
Hashem yerachem please do tsheuvah now
10
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:05 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Never Judge some one until you are in his matzav ”
Thank you for saying this it is so true!
11
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:03 AM chaim Says:
Al todin chaveroi ad getagia lemkoimoi.(Lipa)
12
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:24 AM Anonymous Says:
Baruch Dayan Ha Emes. My heart goes out to his grieving family.
I am glad that this is being reported; I saw this story in the newspaper and was wondering why VIN was covering it as an auto accident. If we acknowledge that there are R"L problems like this in our community, we can begin to treat them so that this shouldn't happen again.
13
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:23 AM Anonymous Says:
can anyone justify the publication of this story?
14
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:21 AM shmiel glassman Says:
this is very difficult to believe - based on yesterdays reports
we are don lekaf zechus & a normal person has a chazaka to live
thei nishmoso tzerura betzeror hachaim
15
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:18 AM Anonymous Says:
Today at 10:03 AM
chaim Says:
Al todin chaveroi ad getagia lemkoimoi.(Lipa)
A sign of the times; a mamaar chazal is attributed to Lipa.....
16
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:18 AM Skeptic Says:
Why is this version of the story only being reported in the Baltimore Sun?
17
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:15 AM something is missing Says:
something dosnt make any sense!!!
18
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:10 AM Allan Says:
Very sad story...May he rest in peace.
19
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:38 AM Anonymous Says:
let us all imagine the kind of pain that this beautiful person was in. Depression is a condition that can strike anyone and is extremely painful. A person can totlorate such strong pain but depression is a stronger pain than anything else.
20
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:37 AM Anonymous Says:
If if makes sense or not it is best for the families affected by this terrible tragedy that NO comments should be written about this . Only thing should be posted his name and his fathers that we should be able to light a candle and learn a mishne for his Neshume...
21
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:35 AM Anonymous Says:
what does this story have to do with Lipa?
22
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:34 AM Simcha Says:
Nebach! Nebach! Something struck me as odd about this story. I have traveled over this bridge for several decades and although it always gave me the creeps due to the very low side barriers, I can't see someone just being blown out of his car by the crosswinds. May Hashem send a nechama to his family and a refuah to all who need it! Omein!
23
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:33 AM MRMR Says:
“ Baruch Dayan Ha Emes. My heart goes out to his grieving family.
I am glad that this is being reported; I saw this story in the newspaper and was wondering why VIN was covering it as an auto accident. If we acknowledge that there are R"L problems like this in our community, we can begin to treat them so that this shouldn't happen again. ”
And the family??!!! Seichel iz a tairah sach.
24
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:33 AM Anonymous Says:
We gotta find this version from real source. Maybe someone who was on Hatzalah can tell us if his car had any damage..... If there was no damage and no airbags then its possible.
25
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:33 AM Anonymous Says:
The medical field has not been able to help mentally ill patients at all.
At best they apply a bandage to cover the symptoms. They have not been able to treat the root cause at all. Billions of dollars are being spent on drugs that simply put a damper on the personality of many patients. Meanwhile, their is a whole community out there that are suffering to the point that they prefer death over the pain they are feeling.
Let's embrace and try to understand our fellow Yidden when they are in pain.
A little kindness goes a long long way.
26
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:32 AM Anonymous Says:
Let's not miss this great opportunity to say nothing.
27
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:32 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Today at 10:03 AM
chaim Says:
Al todin chaveroi ad getagia lemkoimoi.(Lipa)
A sign of the times; a mamaar chazal is attributed to Lipa.....
”
Well Said!!!!
28
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:30 AM Anonymous Says:
I commend VIN for your honesty in making the correction today. Other sites have not done so, and I believe that being open about this tzaar, while painful for the family and friends, will perhaps, hopefully help someone else from a similar end, r'l. The story as reported yesterday did not add up, and I thought that VIN and others were trying to cover up what happened in the interest of protecting the niftar and his family. If that was the case, it should not be reported at all instead of fabricating facts. Again, if one person is saved or helped by confronting the issues, then who can argue against being honest?
29
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:28 AM Anonymous Says:
was there really a need for VIN to report this?
30
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:27 AM Anonymous Says:
this post can not be true - please remove immediately
31
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:26 AM Anonymous Says:
Definetly not true! He was a great person!
32
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:26 AM Anonymous Says:
I noticed some of the Baltimore Jewish papers listed this as a car accident. I think it's time the Jewish world admit what this is so Jews can accept it and realize it's a problem. Accepting this truth can help other Jews who are depressed and are in need of help. Imagine if this poor boy had someone he could've talked to. Depression and suicide need to be addressed and dealt with, not denied.
33
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:26 AM Anonymous Says:
This is 100% loshon harah, and being that there's no evidence, it is moreover motzei shem rah! I am very close to the family and Fifi would never have done this so how dare you say he did without proof! VIN should take this sick false report down IMMEDIATELY!
34
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:47 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Al todin chaveroi ad getagia lemkoimoi.(Lipa)
”
Al tadin es chavercha ad shetagia limkomo (Hillel, Avos 2:5)
35
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:45 AM Anonymous Says:
“ let us all imagine the kind of pain that this beautiful person was in. Depression is a condition that can strike anyone and is extremely painful. A person can totlorate such strong pain but depression is a stronger pain than anything else. ”
How do you know he was depressed ? I saw him 4 days ago & he looked really happy. Please don't'' Darshan ''about depression,or why this happened, as you were not with fifi for his final hours or minutes....and we will never know why this happened.
36
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:44 AM Anonymous Says:
Be dan l'kof zechus! You don't know what happened. Maybe some other guy crashed into him and knocked him and his car over the edge. And then he felt so horrible that he jumped to his death. (I mean the other guy did. So then they both would be in the water.)
Or maybe he was threatened by someone to jump.
Maybe I watch too many movies and get these crazy ideas, but maybe I'm just trying to judge my fellow jew favorably.
37
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:43 AM Anonymous Says:
ashreichem yisroel ... thank you all for your posts being so thoughtful and caring.....
38
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:42 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Something doesn't make sense. First they say his car was in the river and hatzala was searching because he never checked in and they found his body later because he was thrown from the car etc... I find this version very hard to believe. It's much more likely that it was an accident. Why the change of story now? ”
No one changed the story.
Harford County police, and the Maryland State Police are obligated to report every incident. The Baltimore Sun broke this '' incident '' in this mornings' paper.The incident is still under investigation.
Boruch Dayan Ha'emess.
39
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:55 AM Anonymous Says:
I wish the family a nechama. It is hard to imagine the pain that the niftar must have been in to enable him to do something so drastic like this. I have felt this way before many times and I almost did the same thing. Like a previous poster said before that there is sometimes no solution to problems that a person has.
I want to thank the niftar that He inspired me to live. even if life is painful.
Yehi Zichro Boruch
40
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:03 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Definetly not true! He was a great person! ”
Does it make him any less of a great person? Alav Hashalom, may his soul find comfort in Gan Eden!
41
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:02 AM Anonymous Says:
Whoever put out the false story about an auto accident, phooey on you. Despite your good intentions to cover up the truth, it is still wrong to lie. This is not the first suicide that has been covered up by our community but it should be the last. It is time to to acknowledge that there can indeed be mental health issues in our community. Instead of stigmatizing it, we should discuss it openly and make it acceptable for people to seek out treatment. Perhaps this tragedy could have been prevented. At least let us try to make sure that we do all we can to prevent the next unneccesary tragedy. We need to ask ourselves are we doing enough as a community to make relief available to those who are suffering enough that they are prompted to take such drastic action. Do we really provide enough support to those who are downtrodden, lonely, lost and foundering. Do we have people and institutions whom the desperate and brokenhearted can turn to when they have given up hope. Why did this fellow not trust his rebbeim enough to confide in them his problems and get help. We should all try to make our shoulders available to our fellow jews to lean on for support and to cry on when they are in pain. We should redouble our chesed activities to really make sure the hungry are fed, the naked are clothed, and homeless are housed, those in debt are helped to ease their debt burdens, and with dignity. How important is it to make one who is suffering feel whole again. How many are suffering in silence with no one to help them and with no place to turn?
42
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:01 AM Anonymous Says:
I commend VIN for doing the right thing in the most awful of stories.
yesterday they wrote it was an auto accident and it was a fishy accident.
Yes the kollel bocher AL'H was a great great human being and was loved by all, BUT that doesnt make him immune to some irrational judgment and doing something drastic.
The fact that VIN is now correcting the story just shows the authenticity this site is striving for. Afterall it would have been much easier to not publish this story today than to publish it.
May we all learn from this and may hashem send this tzaddick who left us yesterday straight under his wings in gan eden
43
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:01 AM Anonymous Says:
This is my first time reading vosizneias. My daughter called me at work to let me know what you are printing. Even if this is true why would you print it, just to add tzaar to the family?
44
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:25 AM Anonymous Says:
I am always struck by the reaction of people when someone dies unexpectedly, chas V'shalom. We theorize on the hows and whys and their death, speculating like people are on this blog - was it suicide, an accident, a mistake, on purpose?!? I would suggest that all this speculation is counterproductive. What is evident is that the duration of his life, like ALL of ours, is determined by Hashem and comes min haShomayim. We should be much more focused on HOW HE LIVED, verus how he died. The real story here is how he lived his life, not the lashon hara about his final moments. It would be nice to know more about him on a personal level, his mitzvos, learning, chesed. This will bring real comfort to his neshama and from this we can all benefit. (I am reminded of the tremendous descriptions of the lives and chesed of the Holzbergs a"h that have inspired us all)
Hashem should grant a nechama to his family and wife and we should merit the geula shaleyma immediately.
45
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:44 AM Anonymous Says:
“ This is my first time reading vosizneias. My daughter called me at work to let me know what you are printing. Even if this is true why would you print it, just to add tzaar to the family? ”
If the frum community ignores this issue. We will face the concequences we did with all other issues. We have to understand that there are real people livning in out frum communities that can fall to deep depression. specificallly during times in a recesion as such we have to be very vigilent to neighbors in our communities and make sure that the burden is not too tough. And if it is help them.
46
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:44 AM Moe Says:
I wonder if it's still inappropriate to mention whether it was a suicide. If these things happen on our community it would seem to be important to discuss them with the proper soul searching, etc, but does such an incident have to be connected to a name? Doesn't it hurt the grieving family? Has anyone ever asked a Gadol how to deal with this kind of moral dilemma of how to report such an incident?
47
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:42 AM Anonymous Says:
kuddos #15 & to 11 all you have to do is daven mincha only shabbos & only summer months to see where "lipa" got his beautiful words from!!
48
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:39 AM Anonymous Says:
in my eyes that article is inappropriate,
49
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:38 AM NY Says:
Quote # 41 " At least let us try to make sure that we do all we can to prevent the next unneccesary tragedy" . Read the past few days of VIN posts and see how much sinas chinum there is between fellow jews. I think you are asking for the impossible.
50
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:38 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Al todin chaveroi ad getagia lemkoimoi.(Lipa)
”
remind me. is that a ma'amar chazal or lipa's torah?
i mamash can't believe this comment.
may Hashem bring us the one big yeshua we all need b'ruchniyus uv'gashmius.
may his neshoma have an aliya.
51
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:35 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I am always struck by the reaction of people when someone dies unexpectedly, chas V'shalom. We theorize on the hows and whys and their death, speculating like people are on this blog - was it suicide, an accident, a mistake, on purpose?!? I would suggest that all this speculation is counterproductive. What is evident is that the duration of his life, like ALL of ours, is determined by Hashem and comes min haShomayim. We should be much more focused on HOW HE LIVED, verus how he died. The real story here is how he lived his life, not the lashon hara about his final moments. It would be nice to know more about him on a personal level, his mitzvos, learning, chesed. This will bring real comfort to his neshama and from this we can all benefit. (I am reminded of the tremendous descriptions of the lives and chesed of the Holzbergs a"h that have inspired us all)
Hashem should grant a nechama to his family and wife and we should merit the geula shaleyma immediately. ”
that is absolutely true
52
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:32 AM Anonymous Says:
“ This is 100% loshon harah, and being that there's no evidence, it is moreover motzei shem rah! I am very close to the family and Fifi would never have done this so how dare you say he did without proof! VIN should take this sick false report down IMMEDIATELY! ”
Boruch Dayan Emes, that is the only thing to say at a time like this, we need not be analyzing over how we lost such a wonderful person we need to mourn, accept, and learn from all the good he did with his short time in this world
53
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:30 AM Charlie Hall Says:
“ How do you know he was depressed ? I saw him 4 days ago & he looked really happy. Please don't'' Darshan ''about depression,or why this happened, as you were not with fifi for his final hours or minutes....and we will never know why this happened. ”
Baruch Dayan HaEmet.
Depression is a far more serious condition than most of us realize, and it is very easy to hide. Just over a year ago, a frum man in my community jumped off a bridge and killed himself. I had no idea he had been recently hospitalized for depression and in fact had given him an aliyah just a few days earlier and had no idea of what was going on. I went to the shiva minyanim almost every day and had difficulty listening to his 14 year old son saying kaddish for him.
Depression is treatable; if you or someone you know someone may be depressed, get help!
(To Vos Iz Neias: Perhaps you could get someone like Rabbi Dr. Abe Twerski to write an essay here about Depression, how so common it is, how to recognize it, and what to do about it.)
54
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:28 AM Anonymous Says:
I KNOW THE FISCH FAMILY EXTREMLY WELL , AND THIS IS NOT WHAT TOOK PLACE!
55
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:28 AM Anonymous Says:
This CAN NOT be true. Stop saying "we should learn and speak to advisors..." Be dan lekaf zchus!!!
56
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:27 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Something doesn't make sense. First they say his car was in the river and hatzala was searching because he never checked in and they found his body later because he was thrown from the car etc... I find this version very hard to believe. It's much more likely that it was an accident. Why the change of story now? ”
not a change of story just a update on the real story. Doesnt take a genuis to figure it out
57
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:24 AM Anonymous Says:
do the right thing and just remove this news item. What purpose does it serve?
58
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:24 AM Anonymous Says:
I learned based on experience not to believe everything I hear. Just because something is published in a newspaper does not necessarily mean it's true. Leave Jewish "hidden issues" aside. There are real people involved and we must be sensitive ESPECIALLY when it comes to second hand information and not be so quick to talk about things we don't truly know or understand.
59
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:50 AM Anonymous Says:
What in the world would make someone do such a thing?
when is life is just beginning ?
60
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:20 AM Rachmnos Says:
I don’t think when one reads this story they come with the conclusion of judging any one. Rather a feeling of Rachmnos if this was a result of depression or the like R”L. In my mind, (if the story is true as it is being reported now) what we can take from it is to address this problem with others who C”V are struggling and if as an outcome of this story we can help someone else in a situation like this and prevent it from conclusions as such perhaps it can be a tikkon for the Neshmah.
I don’t think anyone gains anything by hiding the story.
May Hashem have Rachmonos on his Kinder!
61
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:19 AM Anonymous Says:
As terribly as I feel to write this, yasher koach to #41 for having the courage to write what he did. We as Jews must face the harsh realities of the world we live in and the many trials and tribulations that we face. We cannot continue to cover up stories just because they are painful or reflect badly on our religion.
62
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:47 AM formerly depressed, now better Says:
I have no way of knowing whether this niftar was depressed, I only know about myself. Medications have come a long way, and even though I was resistant to taking them, they helped me alot.
Depression is a major Yiddishe machleh, and genetics/hereditary is a significant part of it. A few years ago, R' Nati Helfgott ( I know, not from unzere Bais Medrash) published a ground-breaking, self-revealing article , I believe it was in the OU Jewish Action mag. Publicizing the problem, and the possible solution is very helpful.
When one is depressed, many people around him/her suffer; when parents are depressed the kids are strongly affected.
Just like antibiotics are now available and weren't 75 years ago, so too depression medication. Sufferers (and their families) have to ask themselves "Ad Mosai, how long do I need to suffer". The answer is "VeRapeh YeRopeh".
If you have a Shaila, ask your Rov or your doctor.
Mi"kan She'Nitnah R'shus......
Not totally cured, but doing much better,
HaMetzapeh L'Yeshua Krove La'vo
63
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:18 AM Anonymous Says:
There was no point ini publishing this. Let's just turn the tables around and ask ourselves, do we want everything about ourselves publicized???
One has to make a cheshbon and realize how much extra tzaar a ntoice of this sort
causes.
64
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:04 PM yiddishe bubby Says:
I always applaud VIN for accurate reporting, especially when we are informed of heinous crimes, particularly when it concerns our children. I have to say though with this story accurate reporting, especially if in the end it turns out that the current reporting of this story is not true, much harm has been done to the families and to the memory of this person. This helps no one and indeed is harmful. If people would find out about it on their own, ok but I am much saddened by this story. There was no point in publishing this.
65
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:10 PM Anonymous Says:
to all the disenfranchised peple who are exploiting this death as a way of airing all their greivances against the frum world. can you at least allow the family the dignity of burying their son. not evrything is about you are youre anger.
take a step back and imagine youreselves in his parents, siblings or wifes shoes .think about the total lack of respect and dinity in which you are treating them. there is a time to complain and talk about issues in our community but this is not it. not everything is about you and youre tired ,and exhausted vitriol you have for rabbonim, or the frum community
have some basic seichel and maybe allow his body to become cold and then you can once again resume youre endless complaints and disatisfaction
66
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:04 PM Anonymous Says:
Speak to our local hospitals and see how nothing has changed in the mental health services in the past 20 years. In Maimonides, a person who is admitted for any mental health issue, is dressed in a different color gown (already gets them labelled as a "meshugener")and many (if not all) patients get shackled to their bed etc. It is not a wonder that people hide mental health issues. The world does not want to deal with it. There hasn't been any progress in the care of the mental health patient, as a HUMAN BEING, in many years. Talk is cheap, let's demand action. We cannot afford to see others suffering, and nothing being done, because we are so backward in this field.
67
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:03 PM DizzyIzzy Says:
“ This is my first time reading vosizneias. My daughter called me at work to let me know what you are printing. Even if this is true why would you print it, just to add tzaar to the family? ”
There cannot be any way to minimize the family's tza'ar, regardless of the cause of death.
That stated, if this was a suicide, as painful as it is for the family to know the story has been publicized, there is a great deal of good that can come from publicity; it may help others prevent such tragedies in the future, or encourage those contemplating suicide to seek help.
On the other hand, it is vital that news sources reporting a suicide do not dwell on the deceased, or the methods the person used. This sometimes actually encourages copycat suicides.
Instead, they must publicize information about:
a) how relatives/friends/educators can recognize symptoms of suicidal tendencies,
b) what they can do to help if the risk is there, and
c) how to anticipate and minimize circumstances that may lead to suicide.
68
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:01 PM Anonymous Says:
Maybe he wasnt feeling well and he got out of his car and leaned over the bridge to get some air or to throw up and it could be he fell over. Were you there???
69
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:00 PM Professional Says:
I would like to comment on this as a professional in the community.
V.I.N. chose to publish a story yesterday that suggested someone died in a tragic car accident, perhaps while not wearing a seat belt. Now, V.I.N. publishes a story indicating there is a strong suggestion that the young fellow jumped (perhaps fell) off the bridge.
We will never know what really happened (nor do we need to know).
Even those who commit suicide often have regret in their last few seconds or minutes. We cannot and should not judge.
Halachically, rabbanim tend to view virtually all cases claimed to be suicide as NOT similar to the Talmudic case of suicide, and hence allow burial and mourning.
However, perhaps this story can serve as a wakeup call to our community.
If there is any possibility that depression played a role, we should realize that there are forms of depression that result in a death rate of 10-20%. The biological disorder called major depression requires treatment--often a combination of medication plus cognitive or other forms of therapy. With correct therapy, there is a high chance of remission and in some cases even 'cure' with prompt and intensive treatment. Without therapy, the chances of chronic impairment or death are not low.
Let's not kid ourselves or be in denial. These are matters of pikuach nefesh.
Whatever may have happened in this particular case, we should all learn to be alert and to quickly get people who may be depressed to the attention of qualified professionals (eg psychiatrist, psychologist with a degree such as Ph.D. or Psy.D. in clinical psychology, etc--do not assume that 'psychotherapist' means the person is qualified!).
Do NOT rely on merely taking the person to your local rav, as most rabbanim (with rare exception) are simply not experienced or trained enough to be of real help, and may inadvertently slow things down. There are dozens of well trained, qualified mental health professionals available. Go to the Nefesh website for a list of many orthodox mental health professionals.
It's time that the frum community began to treat mental and behavioral disorders not as a shanda but as treatable disorders of the brain.
Kudos to V.I.N. for their decision to bring this story out and thus trigger the conversation which will not be had in the mainstream frum media ("see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil"), which panders to those who would prefer to keep their heads planted firmly in the sand. The ostrich approach won't work anymore.
70
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:00 PM Anonymous Says:
echad mayzid echad shogeg b'chillul Hashem!!! just imagine who reads all this
71
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:00 PM awacs Says:
“ This is 100% loshon harah, and being that there's no evidence, it is moreover motzei shem rah! I am very close to the family and Fifi would never have done this so how dare you say he did without proof! VIN should take this sick false report down IMMEDIATELY! ”
I think, even if the report is incorrect, it is a wakeup call for our community to deal with problems of this sort. If this blog brings people closer to this realization, then it will bring a nachas ruach to the Aibeshter and the decedent A"H - however he died.
Boruch Dayan Haemes.
72
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:59 AM Anonymous Says:
This story is very sad; VIN was only reporting what was written in the Baltimore Sun, it wasn’t writing any Loshon Hara it was a public article already. Please think of the families involved, some are probably reading this article/blogs, please be mindful of that. No reason to speculate on the article and start giving our two cents, we need to offer our condolences and sorrow, Hamakom Yenachem Etschem Besoch Shar Availi Tzion Veyerushalaim .
73
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:59 AM Anonymous Says:
“ This is my first time reading vosizneias. My daughter called me at work to let me know what you are printing. Even if this is true why would you print it, just to add tzaar to the family? ”
the gemora tells a story "Kishemeis rebbi" When Rav Yehuda Hanasi passed away. One of his talmidim jumped off a roof. The Gemara says yotza bas kol, a divine voice said this person is zoche lechayei haolom haba. The explanation is that he wanted to be with Rebbi, and not CV lose his life. Maybe this tzadik wanted to be with the Kedoshim of Mumbai (on their shloshim) or maybe some other recently passed tzadik.
Lets make sure to help those that need help, not cover up stories and be melamed zchus. As long as there were no proper witnesses at the site halacha does not call it suicide (meaning halacha does not allow us to assume a motif for the passing). I am by no means trying to underestimate the need to help the depressed, and learn lessons from this incident.
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Dec 30, 2008 at 11:54 AM Anonymous Says:
I learned based on experience not to believe everything I hear. Just because something is in a newspaper does not necessarily mean that it is true. Remember that there are real people involved and that we must be sensitive to them. It's not a time to discuss Jewish hidden issues/ denial, since this is based on second hand information and may not be factual. We should not expound on information we don't know or understand.
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Dec 30, 2008 at 11:52 AM DizzyIzzy Says:
“ The medical field has not been able to help mentally ill patients at all.
At best they apply a bandage to cover the symptoms. They have not been able to treat the root cause at all. Billions of dollars are being spent on drugs that simply put a damper on the personality of many patients. Meanwhile, their is a whole community out there that are suffering to the point that they prefer death over the pain they are feeling.
Let's embrace and try to understand our fellow Yidden when they are in pain.
A little kindness goes a long long way. ”
Dear sir,
I beg to differ. Often, that "damper" is the difference between enjoying a nearly normal life, and one that is wasted, spent in agonizing emotional pain.
Just like a little kindness, a little something to ease the pain goes a long way.
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Dec 30, 2008 at 12:13 PM DizzyIzzy Says:
“ I wish the family a nechama. It is hard to imagine the pain that the niftar must have been in to enable him to do something so drastic like this. I have felt this way before many times and I almost did the same thing. Like a previous poster said before that there is sometimes no solution to problems that a person has.
I want to thank the niftar that He inspired me to live. even if life is painful.
Yehi Zichro Boruch ”
What an important comment to write, and what an important point you've made. I'm sure you've just helped more than a few people.
I hope you and anyone who can relate to your comment are aware of what circumstances trigger those thoughts, and have made people they trust aware, too. I also hope you have a clear path to get help in the event you should ever get to that point again.
There is no greater heartbreak than for one to feel such hopelessness, and to not get the help that would give them a chance to choose to live.
77
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:16 AM Use Your Head Says:
“ This is my first time reading vosizneias. My daughter called me at work to let me know what you are printing. Even if this is true why would you print it, just to add tzaar to the family? ”
Perhaps to raise awareness of a problem in our community, and thereby save lives?
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Dec 30, 2008 at 11:15 AM Anonymous Says:
“ This is my first time reading vosizneias. My daughter called me at work to let me know what you are printing. Even if this is true why would you print it, just to add tzaar to the family? ”
This story has helped me stay alive today. That is a zechus for the neshama. There are many frum yidden out there in a lot of pain and hearing this news causes me to stop and take stock of my life.
79
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:15 AM david Says:
fifi ! we miss you
80
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:13 AM chaver Says:
“ The medical field has not been able to help mentally ill patients at all.
At best they apply a bandage to cover the symptoms. They have not been able to treat the root cause at all. Billions of dollars are being spent on drugs that simply put a damper on the personality of many patients. Meanwhile, their is a whole community out there that are suffering to the point that they prefer death over the pain they are feeling.
Let's embrace and try to understand our fellow Yidden when they are in pain.
A little kindness goes a long long way. ”
The medical field has been VERY successful in treating depression. We do not know if he was in treatment. Also, no treatments cure everyone. Some people are cured of cancer others are not. Unfortunately the frum community avoids treatment for mental illness due to the stigma and shidduchim. I comment VIN for writing this story since it may save the lives of others who will see the risk and seek treatment
81
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:12 AM Anonymous Says:
knowing him or his family and seeing him a few days ago appearing happy does not mean he was not depressed.
i dont know if he was or wasnt, it may be something that will not ever be known.
82
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:10 AM Anonymous Says:
“ How do you know he was depressed ? I saw him 4 days ago & he looked really happy. Please don't'' Darshan ''about depression,or why this happened, as you were not with fifi for his final hours or minutes....and we will never know why this happened. ”
I am # 19.
You obviously do not know much about depression and suicide, and prehaps this case will help you get educated. A person who is depressed very often plans a suicide well in advance. After they plan the suicide they actually appear very happy and and even elated - that is because they know that their pain will end soon.
They also sometimes make their decision while they are not depressed and it is out of fear of going into that state again.
83
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:06 AM Anonymous Says:
Its true you can never judge s/o until your in his place. He was an amazing person and its extremely sad that s/t triggered him to do this. A lot of people have broken hearts over this. And as someone already said situations like this can not be hidden. There are problems in every community as well as our own and trying to hide them will not prevent them from happening again. May his neshama go to Gan Eden for all he went through and remained such a good person despite all that. My heart goes out to his wife. How will she understand this? Sometimes people feel like they are in a situation they cant cope and due to stress make choices b/c they cant see the future even if they have posotive things in their lives. May Hashem bring us Yeshuos and may Mashiach come quickly.
84
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:58 AM Anonymous Says:
To all of you out there praising VIN for posting this, i have a question to ask you.
If this G-D forbid had happened to YOUR family member, WOULD YOU WANT THAT NEWS TO BE PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE??
Do yourself a favor & answer HONESTLY.
85
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:16 PM Anonymous Says:
When faced with a dilemma (in this case whether or not to publish that report) Gedolim should be consulted. I'm sure no Gadol would advocate publishing a report that's loshon hara of the worst kind. It's extremely painful to all involved. The reason for printing it (according to those that wrote in) is to bring this issue out in the open. This is NOT the time and place for it. These issues can and should be dealt with in a time and place that's not connected to any individuals, but to the Jewish nation as a whole.
86
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:26 PM A former depression sufferer. Says:
This needed to be posted, just reading some of the comments makes it more evident that this needed to be posted.
Depression is real, and treatable. Hopefully the family will take advantage of this horrible incident and bring this sickness out of the closet where people try and hide it. Without knowing the Niftar, but having suffered form depression, I can assure you he would have wanted whatever is necessary to bring this out into the open, so others may suffer less than he obviously did.
For those who do not or have not suffered from depression, do not assume for a moment you have 1/10th of 1 percent of an understanding of what it is like to suffer from this. You simply do not and cannot. A great Yungeman, newly married, and a baby on the way mean nothing to this sickness and in fact can make it even harder to enjoy life the way he should have.
Please, let us take this opportunity to discuss this and let those suffering know that help is available.
87
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:25 PM Anonymous Says:
it was in the papers!!!!!!!
88
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:23 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Hashem yerachem please do tsheuvah now ”
Why is it only important to do Teshuva after an incident like this? Also, would it be better if I posted a silly, self righteous, and pompous plea to do Teshuva, or should I skip that and go straight to Teshuva? I await your guidance.
89
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:22 PM DizzyIzzy Says:
“ Speak to our local hospitals and see how nothing has changed in the mental health services in the past 20 years. In Maimonides, a person who is admitted for any mental health issue, is dressed in a different color gown (already gets them labelled as a "meshugener")and many (if not all) patients get shackled to their bed etc. It is not a wonder that people hide mental health issues. The world does not want to deal with it. There hasn't been any progress in the care of the mental health patient, as a HUMAN BEING, in many years. Talk is cheap, let's demand action. We cannot afford to see others suffering, and nothing being done, because we are so backward in this field. ”
I would venture to say that the community surrounding Maimonides is so closed mouthed about mental health issues that the only people admitted to the psychiatric center are dangerous to themselves and others to the degree that they need to easily identifiable, and possibly restrained.
The progress in mental health begins when issues are recognized for what they are, at the very least, within families, and treated.
90
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:22 PM Anonymous Says:
For those who did not look carefully enough, this is not being reported by VIN but by the Baltimore Sun. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.br.jumper30dec30,0,2231762.story
As the old saying goes "Don't shoot the messenger".
Whatever the true circumstances are, it is a tragedy for the family.
91
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:18 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Maybe he wasnt feeling well and he got out of his car and leaned over the bridge to get some air or to throw up and it could be he fell over. Were you there??? ”
besides the fact that there are extreamly strong winds there
92
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:15 PM my opinion Says:
I think this is an extremely sad incident. Although it is sad, like previous posts, it must be looked at and we should learn from this how to prevent a reoccurance in the future. The jewish community is famous for trying to hide issues. Being "frum" has nothing to do with having issues. Noone is too frum to escape problems. Noone was ever helped by not dealing with them and just stuffing them in the closet.
Here is a man who was amazing. He was B"H happily married and had a child on the way. You can think why someone like this would think this way. There must be something that triggered it. It is so unfortunate and my heart goes out to his wife. She will need to understand that something made him do this.
We can learn from this - someone who was so good to others yet he made a shocking decision. We need to be aware of signs. There are many different signs.
May we all have Yeshuos and may Mashiach come to end our tzaros
93
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:14 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This CAN NOT be true. Stop saying "we should learn and speak to advisors..." Be dan lekaf zchus!!! ”
OK. I'll be don l'kaf zchus - You have been alone and out of touch with the real world on a South Pacific island for the last forty years.
94
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:14 PM Anonymous Says:
To Charlie Hall and Number 62,
Depression, like other diseases, isn't always curable. Medications have helped me, as have other things, such as proper diet and exercise. But I still have bad days, and after battling this for a quarter of a century, I am not sure I will ever return to normal, or for that matter, can even remember what normalcy would feel like.
95
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:10 PM Anonymous Says:
boruch dayan emes-Here is a troubled neshoma in the middle of a kollel in a wonderful Yeshiva-contrast this with Yosef avinu alone-in prison in a foreign country with no family visits who is able to reach out to the troubled egyptian Sar ha mashkim, and recognize his sad face and troubles. He only asks him what is troubling you-how are you-a relationship is begun, and you all know the rest of the story. I didn't know this person, nor can I speculate on what happened- but please let's all be Yosef, and observe our fellow human beings- smile and ask then HOW ARE YOU- I AM CONCERNED-DO YOU NEED TO TALK-Let's reconnect with each other. Maybe B"H it will make a difference!
96
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:36 PM Anonymous Says:
“ We gotta find this version from real source. Maybe someone who was on Hatzalah can tell us if his car had any damage..... If there was no damage and no airbags then its possible. ”
Thanks for your incisive analysis, you eagle eyed detective you. Please stop watching CSI and read Dr. Seuss instead to expand your vocabulary and horizons.
97
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:34 PM Anonymous Says:
Fif was someone who was so careful with everything that came out of his mouth.
I never heard him utter a bad word about anyone.
I understand people wanting to address issues based on a news story, but we are doing this at the expense of the niftar and his family.
If we can take a lesson from the niftar; and reserve the posts to positive memories and attributes of the niftar.
Now is not the time nor place to analyze or speculate.
98
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:08 PM Anonymous Says:
I have been having a personal debate whether to post this but I do feel compelled to add this- A parent of mine A"H who was sufferring from a debillitating disease was severely depressed and laying in a hospital bed in a catatonic state- the doctors recognized it for what it was- SEVERE DEPRESSION- my parent was transferred from the regular medical floors to a mental health floor and the family members were not happy to say the least-
However our parent was treated with a severe form of therapy- and it took time but B"H a slow recovery took place - this treatment allowed the patient to live out their remaining time in a much more dignified manner-
Mental health issues can strike at any time just as physical ailments can- if we can remove the stigma of admission to the problem and not live our lives in such denial it might help those of us Jews who suffer from these problems to seek qualified professional help and hopefully we can avoid such tragic stories in the future-
99
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:07 PM Anonymous Says:
even if he did go out of his car could be he wasnt feeling well and had to throwup so he leaned over and the wind made him loss balance, and rachmona lizlan fall over, so every1 please stop saying what some cop saw, he might of seen corectly but it was not suicide!!! For the cop that can b a way of thinking cuz hes a goy, but for us that we know him, WE KNOW IT WASNT SUICIDE!!!
100
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:03 PM We will never know, So why speculate? Says:
“ Maybe he wasnt feeling well and he got out of his car and leaned over the bridge to get some air or to throw up and it could be he fell over. Were you there??? ”
This person is absolutely correct. What if Fifi wasn't feeling well and gout out of his car to throw up and was swept away?!?!? How foolish would all of these individuals posting about depression feel? It is really best not to speculate. I think the reason that people do is to make themselves feel more secure. As if to say, "Oh, he was depressed, so that can't happen to me!" With all of the tragedies recently anyone who doesn't see that all of these decisions are made in Shmoayim is fooling themselves as a defense mechanism. It can happen to anyone, anytime, anywhere. Rich or poor, young or old, just as we say on R"H/Yom Kippur. Anyone who doesn't clearly see that in these times is really missing the message. Whatever the ribbono shel olam decides, is what happens. May the family have a nechama on this horriffic tragedy.
101
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:01 PM Continue to live in Denial? Says:
“ this post can not be true - please remove immediately ”
Go right ahead my Friend and stick your Ostridge head, in to the sand and continue to live in Denial, while more Yidden continue to die BECAUSE of YOUR relentless denial.
102
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:19 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This is 100% loshon harah, and being that there's no evidence, it is moreover motzei shem rah! I am very close to the family and Fifi would never have done this so how dare you say he did without proof! VIN should take this sick false report down IMMEDIATELY! ”
They have the police report. What more proof do you want?
103
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:19 PM Anonymous Says:
was the car damaged from an accident?
104
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:16 PM Anonymous Says:
Sha shtill. There are no suicides, molestation,domestic violence, or any other bad things going in on in our community. Everything is fine and dandy and rosy. The bad things are outside the community such as Slifkin, the internet, Lipa, concerts, Blogs, and the like. We should not allow these outside influences to influence us. By sticking our earlobes in our ear canals and avoiding Lashon Hara, and not talking about these things, they will go away. We should all make a commitment to attend Chofetz Chaim Heritage foundation lectures so that we can enlighten ourselves to the Daas Torah of the Gedolim. In the Zechus of Machsom Lefi we will merit Yeshuos for Klal Yisroel and Shidduchim for the those affected by the Shidduch Crisis.
105
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:16 PM Anonymous Says:
“ let us all imagine the kind of pain that this beautiful person was in. Depression is a condition that can strike anyone and is extremely painful. A person can totlorate such strong pain but depression is a stronger pain than anything else. ”
Perhaps tyhe lesson to be learned from this is to not create an atmosphere in the community where a person feels depression is something to be ashamed of and hidden. I have no idea if this person did suffer, but if he did, I hope this fear did not stop him from seeking help
106
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:23 PM Anonymous Says:
i dont belive the sory! But even if he did go out of his car, could be he wasnt feeling well and had to throwup so he leaned over and the wind made him loss balance, and rachmona lizlan fall over, (there was a simillar story a few years back, and this is what they ruled out), so every1 please stop saying what some cop saw, he might of seen corectly but it was not suicide!!! For the cop that can b a way of thinking cuz hes a goy, but for us that we know him, WE KNOW IT WASNT SUICIDE!!!
107
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:22 PM Anonymous Says:
“ even if he did go out of his car could be he wasnt feeling well and had to throwup so he leaned over and the wind made him loss balance, and rachmona lizlan fall over, so every1 please stop saying what some cop saw, he might of seen corectly but it was not suicide!!! For the cop that can b a way of thinking cuz hes a goy, but for us that we know him, WE KNOW IT WASNT SUICIDE!!! ”
So,, Jews don't suffer from depression . It's this kind of denial that stops people with depression from seeking help.
108
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:20 PM The Answer is "NO" Says:
“
To all of you out there praising VIN for posting this, i have a question to ask you.
If this G-D forbid had happened to YOUR family member, WOULD YOU WANT THAT NEWS TO BE PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE??
Do yourself a favor & answer HONESTLY. ”
The Answer is "No" because most people are selfish and care more about their own family Kovod than they care about saving thousands of Jewish Lives by preventing similar deaths through awareness of the Shameful and Bitter Emes
109
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:26 PM numb Says:
why was he on the bridge in the first place? his wife had no idea where he was. he didn't tell her anything. obviously it was premeditated.
terrible terrible....fifi....we'll miss you......please daven for all of klal yisroel.
110
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:26 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Baruch Dayan Ha Emes. My heart goes out to his grieving family.
I am glad that this is being reported; I saw this story in the newspaper and was wondering why VIN was covering it as an auto accident. If we acknowledge that there are R"L problems like this in our community, we can begin to treat them so that this shouldn't happen again. ”
yeh lot of people need help, people dont neclect your family members.
111
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:25 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I am always struck by the reaction of people when someone dies unexpectedly, chas V'shalom. We theorize on the hows and whys and their death, speculating like people are on this blog - was it suicide, an accident, a mistake, on purpose?!? I would suggest that all this speculation is counterproductive. What is evident is that the duration of his life, like ALL of ours, is determined by Hashem and comes min haShomayim. We should be much more focused on HOW HE LIVED, verus how he died. The real story here is how he lived his life, not the lashon hara about his final moments. It would be nice to know more about him on a personal level, his mitzvos, learning, chesed. This will bring real comfort to his neshama and from this we can all benefit. (I am reminded of the tremendous descriptions of the lives and chesed of the Holzbergs a"h that have inspired us all)
Hashem should grant a nechama to his family and wife and we should merit the geula shaleyma immediately. ”
yes indeed - remember Sara Emanu and the counting of days.
112
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:13 PM exercise Says:
“ To Charlie Hall and Number 62,
Depression, like other diseases, isn't always curable. Medications have helped me, as have other things, such as proper diet and exercise. But I still have bad days, and after battling this for a quarter of a century, I am not sure I will ever return to normal, or for that matter, can even remember what normalcy would feel like. ”
Heavy duty daily (running outdoors or treadmill) exercise can accomplish more than the most powerful drugs for depression.
Now can you imagine how much can be accomplish by using drugs and excesses together?
113
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:00 PM Anonymous Says:
“ this is very difficult to believe - based on yesterdays reports
we are don lekaf zechus & a normal person has a chazaka to live
thei nishmoso tzerura betzeror hachaim ”
Please remember that someone who does this is probably suffering from depression. Depression is just as much a sickness as cancer or any other 'physical' ailment and is a cause of death in many. Noone who suffers from this should not be looked upon any differently. This is sad indeed and this person should not be judged by anyone on this board.
114
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:00 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:
“ This is my first time reading vosizneias. My daughter called me at work to let me know what you are printing. Even if this is true why would you print it, just to add tzaar to the family? ”
I must agree with others who have posted in total disagreement with this comment.
We will never grow personally or as a community if we continue to sweep things under the rug, shush shush and tisk tisk our collective tragedies, and pretend that all is well in our velt. That is nothing more than a prescription for more tragedy.
If today's news reports are true, then we owe it to the niftar, at a minimum, to understand what caused him to take such drastic measures.
Whether it is depression, molestation, theft, drugs, sexual deviance, it doesn't matter. True leadership would acknowledge these problems head on, and address them honestly. And that leadership, I am sure, will not come from the gedolim in Torah. It will come from the baalei batim, the klal - yes, with daas torah in tow - but it will be grassroots.
I hope the family knows of no more sorrow as they mourn their loss.
115
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:56 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Maybe he wasnt feeling well and he got out of his car and leaned over the bridge to get some air or to throw up and it could be he fell over. Were you there??? ”
I would like to throw up after reading your juvenile attempt at what in your warped mind is being Dan Lekav Zchus. No one is saying he is a bad person, but he might have had serious psychological problems that are no fault of his own.
116
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:54 PM It's Better to cause more Jewish Deaths? Says:
“
To all of you out there praising VIN for posting this, i have a question to ask you.
If this G-D forbid had happened to YOUR family member, WOULD YOU WANT THAT NEWS TO BE PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE??
Do yourself a favor & answer HONESTLY. ”
Are you kidding?
You are recommending the people LIE to cover the Kovod of the Mes in order that more Jews should die untreated?
Where is your brains?
117
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:52 PM Anonymous Says:
Dear Editor,
You should be ashamed of yourselves, Cant you wait until he is buried to report this? Do you not have any respect for the deceased or his family? You claim to want to be professional journalists but do you know this for a FACT? NO, you are taking the word of a non jewish cop. Even if it is true do you not have any respect for the Niftar or his family?
SHAME ON YOU
118
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:52 PM What? No Point? Are You Crazy? or What? Says:
“ There was no point ini publishing this. Let's just turn the tables around and ask ourselves, do we want everything about ourselves publicized???
One has to make a cheshbon and realize how much extra tzaar a ntoice of this sort
causes. ”
What do you mean "no point".
Is saving Jewish lives important or do you prefer to hold on to some "kovod" and allow more people to die without being treated for depression?????
How nuts can you be to continue to live in denial even after such a tragedy?
This is not only NOT an article that should be removed but we should publish 100 more, until the frum community stops sweeping such problems under the rug and stops more deaths from happening.
Vehachai Yiten El Liboy - to not sweep it under the rug - but do something positive to save all those who have not killed themselves * YET * .
Ignoring the lesson form this story will only cause more deaths Rachmana Litzlan.
Removing this post is the best way to guarantee that the problem in our community remains untreated.
119
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:49 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This is my first time reading vosizneias. My daughter called me at work to let me know what you are printing. Even if this is true why would you print it, just to add tzaar to the family? ”
Great point,if we don't like a story, just pretend it didn't happen. Let someone else be concerned with such problems in our community, you just want to read happy stories that make you feel all warm and tingly. Hey Alice in Wonderland: WAKE UP!!
120
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:57 PM "Justify"? You have got to be Kidding! Says:
“ can anyone justify the publication of this story? ”
How can you "justify" * NOT * saving more Jewish lives, by bringing it to the surface and forcing the Jewish community to acknowledge what they have been hiding. (a leading cause of Jewish suffering and Jewish death), until now?
121
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:58 PM Anonymous Says:
the story is not tre because you can just look at the car and c if its smashed up
122
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:40 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I must agree with others who have posted in total disagreement with this comment.
We will never grow personally or as a community if we continue to sweep things under the rug, shush shush and tisk tisk our collective tragedies, and pretend that all is well in our velt. That is nothing more than a prescription for more tragedy.
If today's news reports are true, then we owe it to the niftar, at a minimum, to understand what caused him to take such drastic measures.
Whether it is depression, molestation, theft, drugs, sexual deviance, it doesn't matter. True leadership would acknowledge these problems head on, and address them honestly. And that leadership, I am sure, will not come from the gedolim in Torah. It will come from the baalei batim, the klal - yes, with daas torah in tow - but it will be grassroots.
I hope the family knows of no more sorrow as they mourn their loss. ”
You are right, that there is such a problem in the community, but this was not the case here!!
123
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:44 PM ML32 Says:
The fact of the matter, this is a terrible loss. The pain of his wife and family must be unbearable. They are all wonderful people and the sad truth is that FiFi is gone. Its no matter why or how. We will never know the true reason, perhaps he died doing a chesed, what harm is there in simply assuming so. THERE IS NOTHING TO TAKE AWAY THE BURN, HE WAS ONE OF US.
124
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:42 PM Anonymous Says:
“ To Charlie Hall and Number 62,
Depression, like other diseases, isn't always curable. Medications have helped me, as have other things, such as proper diet and exercise. But I still have bad days, and after battling this for a quarter of a century, I am not sure I will ever return to normal, or for that matter, can even remember what normalcy would feel like. ”
i also suffer from depression caused by a mild form of bi polar disorder. I take 300 mg of Lamotrigine every single morning to maintian an steady mood. The medicine is like having a net under me so if i fall into depression it prevents me from sinking to real depths. I'm luckier than others because my medicine usually works and i onl have to take one, not a combination. but i lived with it till my late 20's and never knew something was wrong. i just thought it was my fault that i didnt live bsimcha..
Depression is like going to hell. some little thing trigger you and then darkness covers your world. half the time you don;t even know your depressed until the pain starts. I felt the pain like sticky mud pouring into my body filling my chest with a heavy. It was physically painful but not ouch kind of pain. it was more like my head is going to explode pain and I could feel this heavy darkness in my eyes that made me squeeze my eyes as tight as i would if it was being blinded by direct sun. My body would feel heavy and I could bearly move off my bed. Sad or angry thoughts would rush into my head the same thoughts over and overmaking the pain feel worse. sometimes it was this numbness in my head, like the opposite of being slighly drunk, that my eyesight and hearing felt slighly hazey and my voice was dull and without life. no matter what nothing was good, nothing made me happy. you just feel numb. One time on everv shabbos my little kids wanted to go to shul and didnt know why i was lying in bed so they grabbed my arms and shlepped me off the bed. They dragged me all the way to shul while as i was feelig all the sensation i described above. For some reason being dragged to shul by my two beautiful kids while i felt that way provided me a chance to understanding that i felt this way and then I could to put into words for the first time what i felt. i was able to describe it to a doctor who helped me. I only wroite this because lots of people are depressed and don;t even realize it. even with medicine I still get depressed but i can keep track of how i feel and it doesn't last as long or get as bad.
this tragedy will always be a tragedy for this family and those who loved him but now other people can be less scared think about how they feel and if their feeling very sad maybe they will know to get help.
125
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:50 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Heavy duty daily (running outdoors or treadmill) exercise can accomplish more than the most powerful drugs for depression.
Now can you imagine how much can be accomplish by using drugs and excesses together? ”
Also get a good night sleep for at least 6 hours in your bed, every night, going to sleep at a certain time and waking up the same time.
126
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:48 PM A Therapist Says:
“ What do you mean "no point".
Is saving Jewish lives important or do you prefer to hold on to some "kovod" and allow more people to die without being treated for depression?????
How nuts can you be to continue to live in denial even after such a tragedy?
This is not only NOT an article that should be removed but we should publish 100 more, until the frum community stops sweeping such problems under the rug and stops more deaths from happening.
Vehachai Yiten El Liboy - to not sweep it under the rug - but do something positive to save all those who have not killed themselves * YET * .
Ignoring the lesson form this story will only cause more deaths Rachmana Litzlan.
Removing this post is the best way to guarantee that the problem in our community remains untreated. ”
Please be aware that although publishing and educating the community in mental heath issues is very important, The more media involvement with issues such as suicide, actually increases copycats in the community. VIN has been a great service in educating the community in regards to mental health. Thank you. Lets keep things like this away from other eyes. Research shows that there is great danger in publishing this.
127
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:34 PM Anonymous Says:
“ why was he on the bridge in the first place? his wife had no idea where he was. he didn't tell her anything. obviously it was premeditated.
terrible terrible....fifi....we'll miss you......please daven for all of klal yisroel. ”
if no1 knew then how did the family know to call Passaic to find out that if he got there already?
128
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:34 PM Anonymous Says:
“ To Charlie Hall and Number 62,
Depression, like other diseases, isn't always curable. Medications have helped me, as have other things, such as proper diet and exercise. But I still have bad days, and after battling this for a quarter of a century, I am not sure I will ever return to normal, or for that matter, can even remember what normalcy would feel like. ”
Normal feels like you get up, you do what you have to do, you take care of yourself and your loved ones and you try to be the best person you can be, I also suffer from depression and I am on medication and I do feell better. normal is a relative thing. Who is really normal afterall - those who appreciate theri blessings and bring hapiness to others. What else are we here for. When I am feeling better I do try to go off the meds but soon I realize that I need them. Baruch hashem. They have helped me be a better parent better child and better spouse. I can imaging that without them I would consider suicide - I have in the past. But there was always something stopping me - I thought of my parents and the pain it would bring. On meds I have absolutely no thought of suicide - but i know how easy it is to have them, it is very scary. And if anyone knew who I was right now they would plotz.
129
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:30 PM Anonymous Says:
“ So,, Jews don't suffer from depression . It's this kind of denial that stops people with depression from seeking help. ”
NO! Jews do suffer from depretion!! BUT NOT FIFI!!! When some one is suffering from deprtion, the ppl around him would pick up somthing, but not Fifi!! he was not depressed!!
130
Dec 30, 2008 at 01:52 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:
122, I respectfully disagree. To say this was not the case here, sorry, this case, that case, ANY CASE - in some way, touches the entire Klal. And we are all responsible.
131
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:49 PM Michesq Says:
The truth is none of us readers were there or aware of what the Niftar's mental state was at the time of death R'L. Certainly, the good the niftar did should be remembered and celebrated. However, if there was something that caused the Yungerman to nebach take his life it should be analyzed so that if a similar set of circumstances arise in the future maybe the proper people could intervene and possibly prevent another tragedy.
HaMakom Yinachaim otom b'toch sha'ar aveilei Zion v'Yerushalyim.
132
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:46 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Be dan l'kof zechus! You don't know what happened. Maybe some other guy crashed into him and knocked him and his car over the edge. And then he felt so horrible that he jumped to his death. (I mean the other guy did. So then they both would be in the water.)
Or maybe he was threatened by someone to jump.
Maybe I watch too many movies and get these crazy ideas, but maybe I'm just trying to judge my fellow jew favorably. ”
Please stop your asinine stupidity. That is not Dan Lekaf Zechus, you just sound like you watched the ususal suspects while huffing glue and hot boxing in the bathroom.
133
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:44 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This is 100% loshon harah, and being that there's no evidence, it is moreover motzei shem rah! I am very close to the family and Fifi would never have done this so how dare you say he did without proof! VIN should take this sick false report down IMMEDIATELY! ”
We are all very touched by your loud claims of having been so close to his family. By the way, does the eyewitness report of a police officer not constitute any proof at all? If that same police officer saw someone stealing your HUD check, would you still be so reluctant to believe him?
134
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:41 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Definetly not true! He was a great person! ”
I see your point. I guess only people who do not meet your exacting standards for greatness are susceptible to psychological problems. Your statement is ignorant and juvenile to the point where your only useful contribution to society is to become a human mine sweeper.
135
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:41 PM Anonymous Says:
To all those who are clamboring to be "dan (judge), the niftar, l'chav zechus", that "maybe this and maybe that - no-one knows exactly what he was thinking or the details and circumstances in the moments immediately preceding his death" take a step back and consider that maybe this tragedy doesn't call for any "judgments" at all.
136
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:22 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I noticed some of the Baltimore Jewish papers listed this as a car accident. I think it's time the Jewish world admit what this is so Jews can accept it and realize it's a problem. Accepting this truth can help other Jews who are depressed and are in need of help. Imagine if this poor boy had someone he could've talked to. Depression and suicide need to be addressed and dealt with, not denied. ”
baltimore in known to hide the molestation issues ,so why is this issue any different .?
137
Dec 30, 2008 at 11:08 AM Anonymous Says:
“ The medical field has not been able to help mentally ill patients at all.
At best they apply a bandage to cover the symptoms. They have not been able to treat the root cause at all. Billions of dollars are being spent on drugs that simply put a damper on the personality of many patients. Meanwhile, their is a whole community out there that are suffering to the point that they prefer death over the pain they are feeling.
Let's embrace and try to understand our fellow Yidden when they are in pain.
A little kindness goes a long long way. ”
The help that is available in our time,to help people suffering from mental illness,is tremendous.
In some ways they were even more successful,then Medical practitioners,in physical reatment.
The strongest evidence.is the fact,that large institutions,that were used to keep,and house the mentally ill,are now vacant,and being converted to other uses.
We have to thank hashem.for opening the eyes,of the mental health professionals,and be grateful to them,as well
138
Dec 30, 2008 at 10:59 AM Noyseh Boyel Says:
Rabbosi "curiosity killed the cat" All that is important is that there was no foul play and now so many family members are suffering.
In due time we as zibur should learn what needs to be learned and help any future situations, regardless of all the details of this tragedy. But now is not the time to be nosey.
May the grieving families have a nechama and his neshama have a tikun!
139
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:00 PM DizzyIzzy Says:
“ Please be aware that although publishing and educating the community in mental heath issues is very important, The more media involvement with issues such as suicide, actually increases copycats in the community. VIN has been a great service in educating the community in regards to mental health. Thank you. Lets keep things like this away from other eyes. Research shows that there is great danger in publishing this. ”
Research shows there is great danger in describing who the victim was, how the person did it, what may have led to it, how the person's family and community are affected by the loss, and then just repeating it over and over again.
Instead, there must be a strong statement of how people can identify suicidal symptoms, where to get help, and how to prevent people from getting to that stage.
140
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:05 PM Thank G-d for Meds Says:
“ Normal feels like you get up, you do what you have to do, you take care of yourself and your loved ones and you try to be the best person you can be, I also suffer from depression and I am on medication and I do feell better. normal is a relative thing. Who is really normal afterall - those who appreciate theri blessings and bring hapiness to others. What else are we here for. When I am feeling better I do try to go off the meds but soon I realize that I need them. Baruch hashem. They have helped me be a better parent better child and better spouse. I can imaging that without them I would consider suicide - I have in the past. But there was always something stopping me - I thought of my parents and the pain it would bring. On meds I have absolutely no thought of suicide - but i know how easy it is to have them, it is very scary. And if anyone knew who I was right now they would plotz. ”
Ditto about the plotzing.
There are a lot of "normal" people who suffer debilitating depression. The fortunate ones seek help and get it.
For those who have a tendency to equate getting help with announcing it to the world, resist that urge. It could save your life.
141
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:13 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Sha shtill. There are no suicides, molestation,domestic violence, or any other bad things going in on in our community. Everything is fine and dandy and rosy. The bad things are outside the community such as Slifkin, the internet, Lipa, concerts, Blogs, and the like. We should not allow these outside influences to influence us. By sticking our earlobes in our ear canals and avoiding Lashon Hara, and not talking about these things, they will go away. We should all make a commitment to attend Chofetz Chaim Heritage foundation lectures so that we can enlighten ourselves to the Daas Torah of the Gedolim. In the Zechus of Machsom Lefi we will merit Yeshuos for Klal Yisroel and Shidduchim for the those affected by the Shidduch Crisis. ”
Best post of the thread.
142
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:17 PM Professional Says:
Whether or not this person tried to kill himself is immaterial to the fact that many Jewish young adults and elderly (like many others in these age brackets) do consider suicide, some attempt it, and some 'succeed.'
Whether publishing a story citing police on such a case would trigger a 'copy cat' is arguable. Perhaps if a false story had not been planted in the first case (as apparently occurred here), V.I.N. might not have chosen to release this story.
However, all that is in the past, and for whatever reason we see here in these posts tremendous efforts being made by people to deny the possibility of suicide, based on such observations as a person seemed happy, as well as a suggestion that for a Jew to consider suicide is a 'chillul Hashem.'
Mental illness is a form of brain disease. If the brain is not working correctly, such as due to a chemical imbalance, the person may not be fully responsible for his / her actions (hence the halachic categories of shoteh, tiruf ha'daas, etc).
Now that the story is out, let's hope our 'leaders' actually take the lead and address these issues, rather than continuing to sweep all unpleasant facts under the rug.
There are signs and symptoms of depression and 'suicidality' and there are ways to lower the chances of harm. These methods are not foolproof, but people can and often are helped. There is a science of how the brain malfunctions and what works in terms of getting the chemical imbalance corrected. Let's not delude ourselves any further and let's get up-to-date with the latest proven treatments for biological brain disorders such as dementia, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and unipolar depression. Our lives, and those of our loved ones, may depend on it.
[Now, I await the backlash from those who fear the truth.]
144
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:27 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I KNOW THE FISCH FAMILY EXTREMLY WELL , AND THIS IS NOT WHAT TOOK PLACE! ”
If that is the case, please tell us the true story. Otherwise, I and most people will tend to believe the Maryland State Police.
145
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:29 PM Ahron Says:
It's quite embarrassing that anybody thought the Maryland State Police would not report the reality of this incident. It says something about how certain people in the frum community believe the world works.
Now the reality is known -- and it is up to you whether to deny the truth or think deeply about how to deal with it. People in the frum community are affected by mental illness, depression, confusion, despair, numbness and deep internal pain. You can continue to bury your head in the sand like some superstitious Stone Age primitive, or we can stand up like men and look at these issues, and the people who grapple with them, face to face.
So far, most of the frum community chooses Option A. It's not shocking, considering how contradictory reality is to most frum people's perception of themselves, their community and their ideology.
146
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:30 PM DEPRESSED NO MORE Says:
Anti-depressants DO WORK. if you need them go to a doctor and ask for them. You dont need a mental health professional. Any MD can proscribe them - as long as you are otherwise healty and not on other meds (which of course you should always be honest about when talking to yuor doctor) they will work for you too. They may not totally cure you - but they will even you out enough to get the help you need from a medical prof.
147
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:29 PM You never really know Says:
“ NO! Jews do suffer from depretion!! BUT NOT FIFI!!! When some one is suffering from deprtion, the ppl around him would pick up somthing, but not Fifi!! he was not depressed!! ”
Most of the most popular comedians are Jewish and they suffer from depression and the reason they are so good at their comedy is because they suffer from depression and use their depression to drive their talent.
Not all depressed people show it openly. Many hide it and show the opposite openly in a deliberate effort to hide their inner pain and in their futile attempt to comfort themselves.
148
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:21 PM Moshe Klass Says:
I think that VIN was put in a very bad position here. I suspect that if this updated story came out right away that they wouldn't have posted anything. Now, to not correct it makes them look unreliable and part of a coverup.
149
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:19 PM Anonymous Says:
“ NO! Jews do suffer from depretion!! BUT NOT FIFI!!! When some one is suffering from deprtion, the ppl around him would pick up somthing, but not Fifi!! he was not depressed!! ”
Im what people call a great person too and noone knows how many times i thought of killing myself because of unhappy events and moments in my life even though everyone always tells me i always have a smile on my face. Half the problem with discussing issues is that it will ruin your family name adn will never find a shidduch. If ppl were more openminded and accepting instead of responding like half these posts here and being in denial this may not happen
150
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:49 PM Anonymous Says:
The claims of "this is not true!" and "You are lying!" just continue to show how in the sand our community is. IF this story is true, NO ONE is being malshin the niftar. And the fact that you have the audacity to think that no "frum, kollel man" who comes from an upstanding and well thought of family in the frum community like Fifi did, would ever have such a problem of depression just shows us how much trouble our community is in. This will be harsh- but those of you who claim that "This Can't Be true!" and someone like this would "Never commit suicide" better watch out because you are the people whose Bais Yaakov daughters will become pregnant and whose son's will become drug addicts. You need to get a grip on reality and stop hiding from the world.
Baruch Dayan Haemes. No matter what it is a tragedy and my heart goes out to the family and the niftar.
151
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:36 PM Anonymous Says:
“ If that is the case, please tell us the true story. Otherwise, I and most people will tend to believe the Maryland State Police. ”
just talk about yourself, but dont say most ppl, thank you.
152
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:33 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Al tadin es chavercha ad shetagia limkomo (Hillel, Avos 2:5) ”
yahser koach!!!!
153
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:31 PM Anonymous Says:
“ if no1 knew then how did the family know to call Passaic to find out that if he got there already? ”
dont be so ignorant obviously they tried his cell and coudnt get through so after a while called the police...
154
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:40 PM Media man Says:
Ignoring the issue of suicide/accident, it should be noted that the media cannot always be trusted. Just look at the Baltimore Sun article (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.br.jumper30dec30,0,2231762.story), and you'll see factual errors. For example, where Fifi was from was incorrect. The article said he was from NJ. In truth, Fifi was originally from Toronto, not Clifton (his wife's family is from Clifton) and he and his wife lived in Baltimore, MD.
155
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:33 PM Anonymous Says:
Perhaps this will teach us to be nosai beol chaveiro (help carry your friend's burdens).
156
Dec 30, 2008 at 02:31 PM Another Comment Says:
People who are denying this can happen are not viewing mental illness for what it is. Almost two years ago a friend committed suicide (no doubts). It hurt a lot. It still does. Shortly after that I saw an essay written by a man whose nephew, Adam, killed himself. He made the following point in the essay "Adam was sick... and he died of the disease."
Nobody is ch"v criticizing the niftar. Rather he was sick and people have to realize that sometimes a mental illness can be as deadly as cancer or a heart attack. We would never ignore or hide a heart attack, so why ignore and hide mental illness?
I know that mental illness is viewed differently. I recognize that. However, is there really a difference between dying of depression and dying of a heart attack?
157
Dec 30, 2008 at 03:03 PM glatekup Says:
does anyone know if yanky will be sitting shiva in lakewood at all?
158
Dec 30, 2008 at 03:17 PM Anonymous Says:
1218 936 4700
640346
this is the phone information. u can hear the levaya live right now.
159
Dec 30, 2008 at 03:13 PM Anonymous Says:
Funeral now in progress.
CALL-IN NUMBER:
1-218-936-4700
640346#
160
Dec 30, 2008 at 03:12 PM Anonymous Says:
the sadness is, that there is a family- an expecting wife, parents, siblings, who have to deal with the pain of loosing a husband, son, and brother.
They say Fifi was the nicest guy, always happy- and had a great wife.
Whatever happened- whether it was an accident or suicide, it is still the biggest rachmanas-
המקום ינחם אתכם בתוך שאר אבלי ציון בירושלים.
we should only know of simchas, and never have to deal with pain ever again.
161
Dec 30, 2008 at 03:09 PM Anonymous Says:
“ People who are denying this can happen are not viewing mental illness for what it is. Almost two years ago a friend committed suicide (no doubts). It hurt a lot. It still does. Shortly after that I saw an essay written by a man whose nephew, Adam, killed himself. He made the following point in the essay "Adam was sick... and he died of the disease."
Nobody is ch"v criticizing the niftar. Rather he was sick and people have to realize that sometimes a mental illness can be as deadly as cancer or a heart attack. We would never ignore or hide a heart attack, so why ignore and hide mental illness?
I know that mental illness is viewed differently. I recognize that. However, is there really a difference between dying of depression and dying of a heart attack?
”
No one is dening it, we are just saying that this is not the case here!
162
Dec 30, 2008 at 03:09 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Ignoring the issue of suicide/accident, it should be noted that the media cannot always be trusted. Just look at the Baltimore Sun article (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.br.jumper30dec30,0,2231762.story), and you'll see factual errors. For example, where Fifi was from was incorrect. The article said he was from NJ. In truth, Fifi was originally from Toronto, not Clifton (his wife's family is from Clifton) and he and his wife lived in Baltimore, MD. ”
Well, that settles things for me.
In fact, this shows the media is so wrong, it is possible he is still alive.
Remember how the media covered up for the CIA when they killed JFK using a laser beam from a UFO and blamed in on Lee Harvey Oswald?
163
Dec 30, 2008 at 03:07 PM Anonymous Says:
“ dont be so ignorant obviously they tried his cell and coudnt get through so after a while called the police... ”
They called the ppl in Passic that he was spose to be by before they called the police
164
Dec 30, 2008 at 03:48 PM Anonymous Says:
“ 1218 936 4700
640346
this is the phone information. u can hear the levaya live right now. ”
trying to listen but its not working.. u sure its correct??
165
Dec 30, 2008 at 03:44 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Maybe he wasnt feeling well and he got out of his car and leaned over the bridge to get some air or to throw up and it could be he fell over. Were you there??? ”
thats what i was thinking...or he could have just been dizzy and got out and leaned on the railing and blacked out or something or heart attack etc...definitely does not automatically mean suicide
168
Dec 30, 2008 at 03:41 PM Anonymous Says:
“ They called the ppl in Passic that he was spose to be by before they called the police ”
duh it doesn't take Einstein to figure..
they tried to get through to him and couldnt so obviously they would call the people where he was going before calling the police... who would imagine the worst??
169
Dec 30, 2008 at 03:40 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Ignoring the issue of suicide/accident, it should be noted that the media cannot always be trusted. Just look at the Baltimore Sun article (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.br.jumper30dec30,0,2231762.story), and you'll see factual errors. For example, where Fifi was from was incorrect. The article said he was from NJ. In truth, Fifi was originally from Toronto, not Clifton (his wife's family is from Clifton) and he and his wife lived in Baltimore, MD. ”
Genius- the car was registered to his father in law in NJ!
170
Dec 30, 2008 at 03:54 PM Anonymous Says:
How do we know there was no foul play- possible he got out of car for some reason and was pushed by someone or by high winds? Hashem should enable the family to find answers and and they should only know of simchas.
171
Dec 30, 2008 at 03:29 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Ignoring the issue of suicide/accident, it should be noted that the media cannot always be trusted. Just look at the Baltimore Sun article (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.br.jumper30dec30,0,2231762.story), and you'll see factual errors. For example, where Fifi was from was incorrect. The article said he was from NJ. In truth, Fifi was originally from Toronto, not Clifton (his wife's family is from Clifton) and he and his wife lived in Baltimore, MD. ”
So because the Sun did not know where he was originally from, they must have made up the whole story with the state trooper. Is it possible that because it's a breaking story, that the Sun did not invest time and resources investigating the least relevant detail of the whole story? Please give yourself tremendous amounts of makus mardus for spewing such annoying and typically frum nonsense about the "goyish" world. Dumbkopf.
172
Dec 30, 2008 at 03:24 PM Anonymous Says:
I am just curious where the name fifi was generated from. BDH
173
Dec 30, 2008 at 03:15 PM Anonymous Says:
Glatekup please stop asking about Yanky
174
Dec 30, 2008 at 04:03 PM Anonymous Says:
“ How do you know he was depressed ? I saw him 4 days ago & he looked really happy. Please don't'' Darshan ''about depression,or why this happened, as you were not with fifi for his final hours or minutes....and we will never know why this happened. ”
because im am a depressed person with alot of stuff going on in my life and everyone thinks i am the happys person around with the best life.
175
Dec 30, 2008 at 04:03 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Whoever put out the false story about an auto accident, phooey on you. Despite your good intentions to cover up the truth, it is still wrong to lie. This is not the first suicide that has been covered up by our community but it should be the last. It is time to to acknowledge that there can indeed be mental health issues in our community. Instead of stigmatizing it, we should discuss it openly and make it acceptable for people to seek out treatment. Perhaps this tragedy could have been prevented. At least let us try to make sure that we do all we can to prevent the next unneccesary tragedy. We need to ask ourselves are we doing enough as a community to make relief available to those who are suffering enough that they are prompted to take such drastic action. Do we really provide enough support to those who are downtrodden, lonely, lost and foundering. Do we have people and institutions whom the desperate and brokenhearted can turn to when they have given up hope. Why did this fellow not trust his rebbeim enough to confide in them his problems and get help. We should all try to make our shoulders available to our fellow jews to lean on for support and to cry on when they are in pain. We should redouble our chesed activities to really make sure the hungry are fed, the naked are clothed, and homeless are housed, those in debt are helped to ease their debt burdens, and with dignity. How important is it to make one who is suffering feel whole again. How many are suffering in silence with no one to help them and with no place to turn? ”
I would also like to agree with #61 and commend the author of #41 for acknowledging that problems like this exist within our community. While it is often difficult to help those suffering from depression, rachmono l'tzlan, many times just talking to them and speaking with them helps immeasurably. By knowing that problems like this exist we can hopefully help others similarly affected before problems become to difficult to bear.
My heart goes out to the mishpocho. HaMakom yinachem...
176
Dec 30, 2008 at 12:32 PM Anonymous Says:
VIN news, please post this in a prominent place:
This is a quote from the Artscroll note #9 of Sundays Daf Yomi Kedushin 81b (Perhaps the niftar learned this the day before his demise?):
"Although the Torah views suicide as murder, if one kills himself as an act of penitence it is permitted (Radal, Iyun Yaakov)."
This poster does not claim to know ANY details of this tragic end of ones life and recommends anyone contemplating a similar act to see BOTH a competent rabbi and a recognized professional therapist or clinician for intensive efforts at remidying the situation. Hashem loves us too much to desire our selfdistruction, even on account of penitence. Teshuva Bs'Emes gives one a "high" that no drug can attain.
177
Dec 30, 2008 at 04:31 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Ignoring the issue of suicide/accident, it should be noted that the media cannot always be trusted. Just look at the Baltimore Sun article (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.br.jumper30dec30,0,2231762.story), and you'll see factual errors. For example, where Fifi was from was incorrect. The article said he was from NJ. In truth, Fifi was originally from Toronto, not Clifton (his wife's family is from Clifton) and he and his wife lived in Baltimore, MD. ”
The article is correct, actually. They take the information from his driver's license or from the car's tags. To that extent, which is all they have to work with, they were right.
178
Dec 30, 2008 at 04:26 PM whats ur problem Says:
“ Maybe he wasnt feeling well and he got out of his car and leaned over the bridge to get some air or to throw up and it could be he fell over. Were you there??? ”
i had to create an account, just so i can ask you ANONYMOUS, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM???!!?!!!!! i scrolled through all the comments and no one is wondering the same!?!? there are a lot of things going on now in the world, in Israel, that u should be saving ur energy for...... maybe he bent over to throw up and the wind pushed him over???? GIVE ME A BREAK!! how naive are you??? and depression is not always noticeable in the public, people are very good at hiding their depression!!
179
Dec 30, 2008 at 05:05 PM Anonymous Says:
“ So,, Jews don't suffer from depression . It's this kind of denial that stops people with depression from seeking help. ”
i have no idea if this story is true or not .... but i do know that i have heard from at least 2-3 people in the last months that they are in such desperate financial situations and have seriously considered running away or committing suicide because its just too difficult to live and function with these financail burdens....they were serious.....times are rough and we need to be mispallel to hashem that he should bring moshiach already ..we have suffered enough .... i have tears writing this because i had a friend who tried to commit suicide and was b"h not successful ...but we shoudl all try to help a friend out in any way ...once again , i have no idea what happened here but he seemed to be a great person and he should be mispallel in shomayim for all of us!! hashem yerachem.
180
Dec 30, 2008 at 04:59 PM Anonymous Says:
Bottom line is we don't know what happened. Maybe it was depression/ suicide, but maybe the cop pushed him over or maybe the wind! Whatever happened, Hashem should grant the family a nechama and only simchas in the future!
181
Dec 30, 2008 at 05:29 PM Anonymous Says:
“ No one is dening it, we are just saying that this is not the case here! ”
yes it is
182
Dec 30, 2008 at 04:54 PM QSMAN Says:
Funeral audio and memorial book are available on Sol Levinson's Funeral Home here:
http://sollevinson.com/notice.php?id=26
183
Dec 30, 2008 at 05:53 PM Anonymous Says:
Instead of having 180 messages of what could or did happen there should be 180 messages of wishing the niftars family condolences. Everytime someone writes their opinion it is causing tzar to the family. Klal Yisroel should be above that. Now this is another reason not to have internet.
184
Dec 30, 2008 at 05:51 PM LKWD Kollelman Says:
“ Today at 10:03 AM
chaim Says:
Al todin chaveroi ad getagia lemkoimoi.(Lipa)
A sign of the times; a mamaar chazal is attributed to Lipa.....
”
Lipa who????
[To prevent anyone from being choshed b'k'sherim: This email message is sent via a shaliach / proxy, since no one in Ir Hakodesh accesses the internet. The principle of ain shaliach lidvar averah applies. As far as bitul zman - there is a worthy toeles to be marbitz my Daas Torah].
185
Dec 30, 2008 at 05:48 PM Anonymous Says:
he lived on my street
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Dec 30, 2008 at 07:13 PM Eli Says:
he lived on my street as well. hamakom yenachem etchem. I just dont have anything else to say beyond that and i don't think anyone of us can say anything beyond that. To turn this comment area into an ad hoc forum on issues in our community is inappropriate as well as inconsiderate to the family. You must also realize it is a utterly unprofessional and ineffective method as well. We all feel the tremendous tzaar for the family and his poor almanah. My heart goes out to them and let us appreciate the life that we all have. As shlomo hamelech said "It is better to go to the house of mourning than the wedding hall for the living will take to heart that life is sos so precious... vehachay yeetain el leebo" this is was the essence of what was said at his levaya and this is what we must take from this tragedy
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Dec 30, 2008 at 07:11 PM Anonymous Says:
“ yes please no negative comments, cause it wont be good for his neshama he was a fantastic person..he did and helped tons of people...may his wife be gebentched ”
First and foremost, hashem yarachem all of the family and friends. However, this is a tragedy not only for his family but for the yiddishe community in the entire Baltimore-Washington area. The clumsy attempt at a coverup will only increase the stigma of depression and make it more difficult for those suffering from this terrible disease to seek help. Now is not the time to pursue this, but at some point, anyone in a leadership role in the religious community who contributed to a chilul hashem by trying to deceive the community must be held accountable.
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Dec 30, 2008 at 06:49 PM Anonymous Says:
There is something called DEPRESSION it is a mental illness that can usually be treated.
Just as tuberculosis can be treated and cured so can various forms of mental illness.
If you need to - seek out therapy - call a suicide hotline - talk to a professional. Don't hide it or let family brush it. Under a rug - when a small pill used short term could be a cure - or even a weekly conversation with a shrink (psychiatrist) it is not a shanda.
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Dec 30, 2008 at 06:41 PM Anonymous Says:
I just checked the Maryland State Police's website. There is a list of press releases and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about this. Therefore, I don't believe the Baltimore Sun article that states that the niftar jumped based on police reports - which are required to be published - and aren't on the website. Additionally, the various other mistakes in the article cause me to be more skeptical as to its validity. For those who say that the state police used the justifiably assumed he was from Clifton due to the license plates, I reply, if they could locate his family, wife, in-laws, etc. to notify them, wouldn't they know where he was from/lived? The whole Sun article seems very fishy to me and I am not impressed with the quality of VIN's yenting.
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Dec 30, 2008 at 06:26 PM Anonymous Says:
We must be mechazek each other during these difficult times. Make usre that we reach out- not just superficial, "Hey how you doing?" but real care and concern for one another. It is hard to imagine the level of pain one must be in to do such an act.
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Dec 30, 2008 at 06:13 PM Anonymous Says:
I am crying as I read this. I cannot believe it. The poor poor family after all that they are going through dealing with his death and then you all have the chutzpa to post things about him being depressed without knowing all the details. Shame on you. And dont justify it by saying that his death is helping other pple who are depressed. His neshama doesnt need this and his family needs this even less. My husband happens to know the family very well and YOU who commented all those posts about it being a suicide went and changed his whole lookout on the poor boy zecher l'vracha. WHY WHY WHY? You dont even know him. We should never know of such things personally. Amen.
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Dec 30, 2008 at 06:05 PM Anonymous Says:
“ NO! Jews do suffer from depretion!! BUT NOT FIFI!!! When some one is suffering from deprtion, the ppl around him would pick up somthing, but not Fifi!! he was not depressed!! ”
I suffer from depression, and the people around me don't really know about it. When it gets hard, I'll say things like I don't fell well or something of the sort. It's not always obvious even my spouse doesn't know how i walk around most of the time feeling like life is not worth anything.