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Washington - Report: Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner Get Rabbinic Approval To Fly With President On Shabbat

Published on: May 19, 2017 08:00 AM
By: JTA/AP
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FILE - Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner arrive on Air Force One to accompany U.S. President Donald Trump for his tour of the Boeing South Carolina facility in North Charleston, South Carolina, U.S. February 17, 2017.  REUTERS/Kevin FILE - Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner arrive on Air Force One to accompany U.S. President Donald Trump for his tour of the Boeing South Carolina facility in North Charleston, South Carolina, U.S. February 17, 2017.  REUTERS/Kevin

Washington -  President Donald Trump’s daughter Ivanka and her husband Jared Kushner received rabbinic approval to fly with him on Shabbat to the Middle East and Europe, Politico reported .

A White House official said that Kushner and his wife, who are both Orthodox Jews, have received a rabbinical dispensation to join the president aboard Air Force One as he sets off on his first overseas Friday, according to the report. Orthodox Jews generally observe a prohibition on work, motorized travel and the switching on or off of any appliance that uses heat, electricity or fire.

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As a matter of consensus, this prohibition does not apply to situations life-or-death situations or when violating the Shabbat has the potential of saving human lives (and according to some rulers, also those of certain animals under specific circumstances.)

A White House official conformed to Politico that the couple had receive special permission from a rabbi. The article named neither the official nor the rabbi. It did not who obtained the dispensation or when.

Trump has tasked Kushner with brokering a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians.

A senior adviser to President Donald Trump, Ivanka Trump will be present for six days of the nine-day trip, which begins Friday, a White House official said. She’ll join her father for some events, but will also hold some of her own, the official said.

The official said that in Saudi Arabia, Ivanka Trump will take part in a roundtable discussion with Saudi women about women’s economic issues. Ivanka Trump wants to hear about the challenges women in the country face and the progress they have made, the official said.

The person was not authorized to be quoted by name discussing the details of the plan in advance of the formal announcement and spoke on condition of anonymity.

In Israel, Ivanka Trump — who converted to Judaism when she married husband Jared Kushner — will visit the Western Wall with the president. And in Rome, she will take part in a discussion about human trafficking with the Community of Sant’Egidio, an aid group with ties to the Vatican. She will also take part in a meeting with the Pope.

The meetings build on some issues the first daughter has already worked on at the White House. She has held meetings on women’s economic empowerment and human trafficking.

This is the president’s first international trip, but Ivanka Trump made a brief trip to Germany in April to appear on a panel at a conference dedicated to helping women in business.

The foreign trip comes amid tumult for the White House after a series of damaging reports, culminating with the appointment of a special counsel to probe ties between Russia and President Donald Trump’s campaign and associates. Many White House aides have been hoping the trip will provide an opportunity for the young administration to refocus.

Ivanka Trump stepped away from running her clothing brand and from an executive role at the Trump Organization before she joined her father’s administration as an unpaid adviser. She still owns the brand, which could be boosted by her high-profile stint at the White House.



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Read Comments (64)  —  Post Yours »

1

 May 19, 2017 at 08:09 AM Reb Yid Says:

Well obviously there's nothing wrong with merely being on an airplane on shabbos. But what to do about the electrically-flushed toilet...

2

 May 19, 2017 at 08:15 AM TrumpISprez4-8 Says:

If you go on the plane before Shabbos and no Malacha is done on Shabbos what's wrong ?

Even tuchumin issues are OK if you are already traveling and not kona shvisa in one place at the start of Shabbos ( it's like the Gemara about those on a ship which is permitted )

Is it in the spirt of Shabbos ? No . But it's not assur

3

 May 19, 2017 at 08:20 AM HolyMoe Says:

The plane takes off before Shabbos and arrives there on Motzoei Shabbos. There is no techum shabbos above 10 t'fachim from the ground so there is no technical chillul shabbos. However, think of the kiddush Hashem if they would have flown a day earlier or a day later and publicized the reason. (sigh) What a squandered opportunity!

4

 May 19, 2017 at 08:27 AM ayinglefunadorf Says:

Big Deal. We have Shabos Lamp. Now we have Shabos Plane.

5

 May 19, 2017 at 08:39 AM AMJC7 Says:

In one word DISGUSTING
How many of our fathers mothers grandfathers and grandmothers didn't take or lost jobs in the 30's and 40's because they refused to work or travel on Shabbos. Let them resign their positions and beg in the streets for food if they have no other way of making a living. Shomer Shabbos HA HA

6

 May 19, 2017 at 08:41 AM HeshyEkes Says:

Pathetic! JTA should come up with such drivel! Saving lives? Even saving animals? I'm sure that if they got a heter to fly on Friday (& arrive in Israel on Shabbos) the main factor is that they are not doing any Melocha by being on the plane (although I don't know what they're doing when they land in Israel).

7

 May 19, 2017 at 08:52 AM Anonymous Says:

Nebbach.

8

 May 19, 2017 at 08:55 AM alterknaker Says:

A white house official said that Kushner & his wife, who are both orthodox Jews...
What makes them ORTHODOX if SHABBOS is made a mockery of? yes, its not 100% illegal to fly on shabbos, but it will raise eye brows on other so called modern orthodox Jews & lead them to an open door,

9

 May 19, 2017 at 09:07 AM qazxc Says:

David Ben Gurion sr"y understood that a yid doesn't ride in a car on shabbos when the cameras are clicking.

10

 May 19, 2017 at 09:09 AM Butterfly Says:

I would like to know who this RABBI is?? Nobody has named him/her?????

11

 May 19, 2017 at 09:15 AM yamsar Says:

Reply to #8  
alterknaker Says:

A white house official said that Kushner & his wife, who are both orthodox Jews...
What makes them ORTHODOX if SHABBOS is made a mockery of? yes, its not 100% illegal to fly on shabbos, but it will raise eye brows on other so called modern orthodox Jews & lead them to an open door,

Chazal made all the "g'zeiros" already. That era, according to the teaching of chazal, is over. What is allowed is allowed and we don't make up new rules and guidelines.

12

 May 19, 2017 at 09:16 AM Anonymous Says:

Please! Both of them have been seen in various restaurants in the D.C. area. The fact of the matter is that there is only one known kosher restaurant in D.C. They participated in mixed dancing on Shabbos at the inaugural ball, and rode on Shabbos for the inauguration. They are not "Orthodox" in any sense of that word. The term "Orthodox", as it pertains to them is a misnomer. What Rabbi is going to refuse to tell them that "it's ok"?

13

 May 19, 2017 at 09:25 AM Meloah Says:

First when we see the President's daughter being a modern orthodox Jew, we say "maybe hashgacha pratis for good things to come". But then we hear that the modern orthodox Jew is not dressing like our ways, and traveling on shabbos, which is not our way either. And this is all done publicly in front of everyone. Then we must wonder, what is going on here...we must not rely on people but daven to Hashem to saves us from any danger.

14

 May 19, 2017 at 09:27 AM Texas_Joe Says:

Reply to #5  
AMJC7 Says:

In one word DISGUSTING
How many of our fathers mothers grandfathers and grandmothers didn't take or lost jobs in the 30's and 40's because they refused to work or travel on Shabbos. Let them resign their positions and beg in the streets for food if they have no other way of making a living. Shomer Shabbos HA HA

If Rabi Yehudah HaNasi, Ravina, and Rav Ashi thought it necessary to discuss the concept of one who was traveling on Shabbos, then, obviously, our fathers and mothers did have some experience with doing so. That is unless you don't shtahm from yidn . . .

15

 May 19, 2017 at 09:42 AM The_Truth Says:

I don't know why every move they make has to be publicly dissected if it is orthodox or not. What about the chillul shabbos befrahessia that goes on in Brooklyn by Jews, or in Israel by the heads of state there. They may not be ideal role models for the frum people, so why make out as if they are.

16

 May 19, 2017 at 09:46 AM georgeg Says:

Rather than respond to individuals, I write the following. In the Gemara itself there is no shortage of stories of Tannaim, even president of the court and so forth, travelling on Shabbos. From these stories it is determined by many of our sages that even just for simple business (money) one may board a ship on Friday even when the ship travels on Shabbos (boarding between Sunday and Wednesday is permitted at all times even when just cruising, so clearly there is no issur just travelling on Shabbos when someone else who is non-Jewish does the work).

Further, there is no "kiddush Hashem" to refuse to do something that is not forbidden, but in this case in particular it is an enormous chillul hashem to travel the day before or after and thus make the taxpayer fund the security arrangements required for daughter and son-in-law to travel separately from the President, aside from the disruption of so many lives for the added security time (like blocking streets) and so forth ("so forth", for those who do not understand, means it is self-evident one cannot let Trump on his own to be influenced on the trip without the moderating affects of the daughter).

17

 May 19, 2017 at 09:55 AM Mark Levin Says:

I wish the "frum" media world STOP flaunting the Kushner "Orthodoxy​" because while I'm sure they're doing some right things, what we all see is the non Orthodox of things.

If they REALLY wanted to flaunt their orthodoxy​, they would stress making the true kiddush haSh-m by flying a day earlier .

18

 May 19, 2017 at 10:08 AM Speaksoftly Says:

First of all, rabbis do not give dispensations.No one is exempt from halacha-yet halacha is broad enough to encompass all situations. Therefore it is critical to consult a competent halachic authority when faced with novel situations.
Secondly, especially during yemei hasefira, we would all be best served not commenting on others'
Religious practices. Shtadlonus, the representation of Klal's interest before governments, is fraught with challenges not confronted by many. Leave it to our rabbonim to decide halacha and what truly constitutes kiddush H-shem and let the rest of us focus on treating each other with proper koved and ahava.

19

 May 19, 2017 at 10:17 AM yonasonw Says:

Flying on Shabbos is prohibited. Period.

From dailyhalacha.com...1 of 2

"According to Halacha it is unequivocally forbidden to fly on Shabbat, for many different reasons. For one thing, Halacha forbids traveling beyond two thousand Amot (cubits) outside one's city on Shabbat. And although this prohibition (which is known as "Techum Shabbat") generally does not apply higher than ten Tefachim (handbreadths) in the air, in this case it likely will apply given the size of the aircraft. Furthermore, one would be unable to use the restrooms on the plane, as the light switches on or off whenever one opens or closes the doors. In addition, planes are equipped with all kinds of electronic sensors, such that one's movement in the aircraft invariably activates some electronic device. It should also be noted that any food served during a flight has been heated on the plane, and therefore one who eats food on a flight during Shabbat will be deriving benefit from forbidden activity, which Halacha prohibits....

20

 May 19, 2017 at 10:19 AM Realistic Says:

Reply to #2  
TrumpISprez4-8 Says:

If you go on the plane before Shabbos and no Malacha is done on Shabbos what's wrong ?

Even tuchumin issues are OK if you are already traveling and not kona shvisa in one place at the start of Shabbos ( it's like the Gemara about those on a ship which is permitted )

Is it in the spirt of Shabbos ? No . But it's not assur

It's only allowed if you depart 3 days before Shabbos, and in cases that it's virtually impossible to make such a trip not on shabbos (voyages used to take weeks or months).

21

 May 19, 2017 at 10:21 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
HolyMoe Says:

The plane takes off before Shabbos and arrives there on Motzoei Shabbos. There is no techum shabbos above 10 t'fachim from the ground so there is no technical chillul shabbos. However, think of the kiddush Hashem if they would have flown a day earlier or a day later and publicized the reason. (sigh) What a squandered opportunity!

“ The plane takes off before Shabbos and arrives there on Motzoei Shabbos"

Can you tell me how that's possible.

Shabbos = 24+ hours
Flight + time zone change = 12+7 hours

22

 May 19, 2017 at 10:22 AM yonasonw Says:

Flying on Shabbos is prohibited. Period.

From dailyhalacha.com...Comment

We now have a new "Movement," Jared/Ivanka Judaism...to add to the historical tragedies that are Reform and Conservative.

More seriously, we see how morally bankrupt Rabbis can be when they get too close to politicians and politics. One wonders if they read Pirchei Avos...or simply don't really care.

A Hillul Hashem big time.

23

 May 19, 2017 at 10:29 AM Anonymous Says:

I will not travel on Shabbos but to save a life. They might be able by boarding before Shabbos and even if lands on Shabbos they can stay on the plane to Motzei
Shabbos

24

 May 19, 2017 at 10:41 AM savtat Says:

We know how complicated this White House is. And, we know that there are overriding exceptions to Shabbat rules, e.g. Hatzalah.... so we have to give them the benefit of the doubt and it wouldn't hurt to say say a Tefilla for their mission.

25

 May 19, 2017 at 10:43 AM ayinglefunadorf Says:

Reply to #2  
TrumpISprez4-8 Says:

If you go on the plane before Shabbos and no Malacha is done on Shabbos what's wrong ?

Even tuchumin issues are OK if you are already traveling and not kona shvisa in one place at the start of Shabbos ( it's like the Gemara about those on a ship which is permitted )

Is it in the spirt of Shabbos ? No . But it's not assur

Wow? I never imagined you are a Talmid Chochem. So how can you be sooo pro Trump. He is everything in opposite what the Torah teaches us.

26

 May 19, 2017 at 11:15 AM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #24  
savtat Says:

We know how complicated this White House is. And, we know that there are overriding exceptions to Shabbat rules, e.g. Hatzalah.... so we have to give them the benefit of the doubt and it wouldn't hurt to say say a Tefilla for their mission.

You're an apologist

27

 May 19, 2017 at 11:13 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #12  
Anonymous Says:

Please! Both of them have been seen in various restaurants in the D.C. area. The fact of the matter is that there is only one known kosher restaurant in D.C. They participated in mixed dancing on Shabbos at the inaugural ball, and rode on Shabbos for the inauguration. They are not "Orthodox" in any sense of that word. The term "Orthodox", as it pertains to them is a misnomer. What Rabbi is going to refuse to tell them that "it's ok"?

I often go to treifa restaurants for business meetings as well. And I am a black hatter.

Mixed dancing in the MO circles is normal.

They are 100% bonfied orthodox

28

 May 19, 2017 at 11:16 AM TrumpISprez4-8 Says:

Reply to #19  
yonasonw Says:

Flying on Shabbos is prohibited. Period.

From dailyhalacha.com...1 of 2

"According to Halacha it is unequivocally forbidden to fly on Shabbat, for many different reasons. For one thing, Halacha forbids traveling beyond two thousand Amot (cubits) outside one's city on Shabbat. And although this prohibition (which is known as "Techum Shabbat") generally does not apply higher than ten Tefachim (handbreadths) in the air, in this case it likely will apply given the size of the aircraft. Furthermore, one would be unable to use the restrooms on the plane, as the light switches on or off whenever one opens or closes the doors. In addition, planes are equipped with all kinds of electronic sensors, such that one's movement in the aircraft invariably activates some electronic device. It should also be noted that any food served during a flight has been heated on the plane, and therefore one who eats food on a flight during Shabbat will be deriving benefit from forbidden activity, which Halacha prohibits....

very nice. I am sre you dug it up because you seek the truth. Its not because it happens to be your buddy Trump's son in law.

29

 May 19, 2017 at 11:21 AM TrumpISprez4-8 Says:

Reply to #25  
ayinglefunadorf Says:

Wow? I never imagined you are a Talmid Chochem. So how can you be sooo pro Trump. He is everything in opposite what the Torah teaches us.

I have said and stated this many times.

I do not like Trump's moral values. I'd prefer Pence's values any day. And Obama yes Obama despite my dislike towards his liberal polices I fully respect his moral values. He is failry straight family guy with upstanding values.

However, I want a presdient that will make america great again. I want someone who won't fall for the garbage that surrounds politics. And that man is Trump.I like Trump's altitude and policies not his values.

30

 May 19, 2017 at 11:39 AM Anonymous Says:

It would be wise to recall that Mrs. Kushner, a M.O. giyores, never had the privilege of attending a BY school at any grade level. Mr. Kushner, of course, attended M.O. schools, not orthodox yeshivos.

Further, those in the know have stated that Modern Orthodoxy - again, in which he grew up and into which she converted - today, is where Conservative was half a century ago.

So why would anyone expect differently?

What is unfortunate, however, is that the world confuses Modern Orthodoxy with Orthodoxy.

31

 May 19, 2017 at 11:49 AM yonasonw Says:

This is Part 2, following my comment 19

Flying on Shabbos is prohibited. Period.

From dailyhalacha.com...2 of 2

..."Some authorities further claim that one's presence on the aircraft adds to the weight supported by the engine, and thus causes more fuel to be burned. Finally, it is clearly impossible to properly fulfill the obligation of Oneg Shabbat – enjoying oneself on Shabbat – while flying on an airplane.

For all these reasons, as well as many others, Halacha categorically forbids flying on an airplane on Shabbat, even if the plane takes off before Shabbat and lands after Shabbat."

32

 May 19, 2017 at 12:00 PM AMJC7 Says:

Reply to #24  
savtat Says:

We know how complicated this White House is. And, we know that there are overriding exceptions to Shabbat rules, e.g. Hatzalah.... so we have to give them the benefit of the doubt and it wouldn't hurt to say say a Tefilla for their mission.

AND the inauguration???

33

 May 19, 2017 at 12:41 PM qazxc Says:

Bbbbbbbbut Chelsea.....

34

 May 19, 2017 at 12:45 PM afzaw Says:

To 10: The Rabbi's name is Rabbi Donald J Trump.

35

 May 19, 2017 at 12:57 PM georgeg Says:

#19

The apparent web site from which that is taken seems to come from a Sephardic background (he also obtained education from Ashkenaz schooling) So if he is your teacher then do as he says. But mine (as apparently also the Kushners) is an Ashkenaz background and we follow our Ashkenaz tradition. The rules between Hasid or Misnagid hardly differ from each other, as follows.

Even if the plane lands on actual Shabbos itself, if the plane is within a "city limit" when it lands, then exiting and walking around the whole city is permitted (otherwise, outside the city limit, only the airport building is permitted).

None of the other items have an effect. Travelling through air is no different than travelling through water - and ships are much larger than airplanes, and it is undisputed that travelling on a ship does not violate "techum" (the water is legally viewed as travelling around a stationary ship).

I don't know anything about what the bathroom system on Airforce 1 is like, nor exactly how meals are prepared or served (arrangements could easily be made to accommodate the religious requirements0.

Electronic sensors are all around the city streets, whether you see them or not

36

 May 19, 2017 at 01:10 PM grandpajoe Says:

You all don't get it - you have to find the right Rav. :)

37

 May 19, 2017 at 01:48 PM grandbear Says:

This isn't a halacha journal and nobody's interested in reading the various halachic decisions that are written here by our readers. There are many ways to answer questions of halacha and no one here has been asked to render decisions.

38

 May 19, 2017 at 02:02 PM Anonymous Says:

No minyan in Saudi Arabia.

39

 May 19, 2017 at 02:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
TrumpISprez4-8 Says:

If you go on the plane before Shabbos and no Malacha is done on Shabbos what's wrong ?

Even tuchumin issues are OK if you are already traveling and not kona shvisa in one place at the start of Shabbos ( it's like the Gemara about those on a ship which is permitted )

Is it in the spirt of Shabbos ? No . But it's not assur

How about landing on Sabbos??

40

 May 19, 2017 at 02:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
HolyMoe Says:

The plane takes off before Shabbos and arrives there on Motzoei Shabbos. There is no techum shabbos above 10 t'fachim from the ground so there is no technical chillul shabbos. However, think of the kiddush Hashem if they would have flown a day earlier or a day later and publicized the reason. (sigh) What a squandered opportunity!

Very good point. A missed opportunity!

41

 May 19, 2017 at 02:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
TrumpISprez4-8 Says:

If you go on the plane before Shabbos and no Malacha is done on Shabbos what's wrong ?

Even tuchumin issues are OK if you are already traveling and not kona shvisa in one place at the start of Shabbos ( it's like the Gemara about those on a ship which is permitted )

Is it in the spirt of Shabbos ? No . But it's not assur

How about ma'arat ayin? If people don't know they left Friday before Shabbos it my be assur.

42

 May 19, 2017 at 02:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Mark Levin Says:

I wish the "frum" media world STOP flaunting the Kushner "Orthodoxy​" because while I'm sure they're doing some right things, what we all see is the non Orthodox of things.

If they REALLY wanted to flaunt their orthodoxy​, they would stress making the true kiddush haSh-m by flying a day earlier .

Right!

43

 May 19, 2017 at 02:50 PM Chochom fun der Mah Nishtanoh Says:

Reply to #25  
ayinglefunadorf Says:

Wow? I never imagined you are a Talmid Chochem. So how can you be sooo pro Trump. He is everything in opposite what the Torah teaches us.

"... He is everything in opposite ..."
Koidem Kol, learn some English.
Next, a president isn't a Yeshiva Bochur and has no prerequisite of Middois Toivois.
Finally, do you think that Hillary IS the example of what the Torah teaches us?

44

 May 19, 2017 at 02:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
qazxc Says:

David Ben Gurion sr"y understood that a yid doesn't ride in a car on shabbos when the cameras are clicking.

Good Point!

45

 May 19, 2017 at 02:38 PM remelys Says:

Reply to #24  
savtat Says:

We know how complicated this White House is. And, we know that there are overriding exceptions to Shabbat rules, e.g. Hatzalah.... so we have to give them the benefit of the doubt and it wouldn't hurt to say say a Tefilla for their mission.

If being "in the white house" is so complicated as to have to drive and fly on shabbos then perhaps they shouldn't be there.

46

 May 19, 2017 at 04:00 PM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #27  
Anonymous Says:

I often go to treifa restaurants for business meetings as well. And I am a black hatter.

Mixed dancing in the MO circles is normal.

They are 100% bonfied orthodox

"Mixed dancing in the MO circles is normal"

Completely untrue

47

 May 19, 2017 at 04:03 PM Halacha is Halacha Says:

Reply to #28  
TrumpISprez4-8 Says:

very nice. I am sre you dug it up because you seek the truth. Its not because it happens to be your buddy Trump's son in law.

yonasonw is right...halacha is halacha, dummy, and it applies even to Trump's family

48

 May 19, 2017 at 04:08 PM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #35  
georgeg Says:

#19

The apparent web site from which that is taken seems to come from a Sephardic background (he also obtained education from Ashkenaz schooling) So if he is your teacher then do as he says. But mine (as apparently also the Kushners) is an Ashkenaz background and we follow our Ashkenaz tradition. The rules between Hasid or Misnagid hardly differ from each other, as follows.

Even if the plane lands on actual Shabbos itself, if the plane is within a "city limit" when it lands, then exiting and walking around the whole city is permitted (otherwise, outside the city limit, only the airport building is permitted).

None of the other items have an effect. Travelling through air is no different than travelling through water - and ships are much larger than airplanes, and it is undisputed that travelling on a ship does not violate "techum" (the water is legally viewed as travelling around a stationary ship).

I don't know anything about what the bathroom system on Airforce 1 is like, nor exactly how meals are prepared or served (arrangements could easily be made to accommodate the religious requirements0.

Electronic sensors are all around the city streets, whether you see them or not

This afternoon I raised the issue with a Briske yeshiva Rav...and he too says it's ossur.

Furthermore, as I understand it, the electronic sensor question raises p'sech raysha shaylas, the outcomes of which that would be affected by the fact that in the case under discussion here one is voluntarily choosing to fly at a certain time.

49

 May 19, 2017 at 04:08 PM Butterfly Says:

To #34 Who gave him s'micha? Rught, he gave it to himself!! Gut shabbos!

50

 May 19, 2017 at 04:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #37  
grandbear Says:

This isn't a halacha journal and nobody's interested in reading the various halachic decisions that are written here by our readers. There are many ways to answer questions of halacha and no one here has been asked to render decisions.

Not so fast big boy...the question raised by the article IS a halachic one.

51

 May 19, 2017 at 04:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Aguda should speak out against this behaviour for the benefit of junior federal employees who really are frum and will now be under pressure from their bosses to use the same "rabbi".

52

 May 19, 2017 at 06:14 PM gimmeabreak Says:

It is so entertaining to read the posts by people tying themselves into Halachic knots in efforts to defend the actions of theTrumps and coming up with reasoning that would never be allowed for anyone else. It's really very simple. The permission for a trip such as this can always be granted based upon what it says in Chapter הכסף מדבר.

53

 May 19, 2017 at 06:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
HolyMoe Says:

The plane takes off before Shabbos and arrives there on Motzoei Shabbos. There is no techum shabbos above 10 t'fachim from the ground so there is no technical chillul shabbos. However, think of the kiddush Hashem if they would have flown a day earlier or a day later and publicized the reason. (sigh) What a squandered opportunity!

DC to Jeddah is a 12 hour flight. There is a 7 hour time difference.

So the trip takes 19 hours. Shabbat lasts 25 hours.

54

 May 19, 2017 at 06:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #29  
TrumpISprez4-8 Says:

I have said and stated this many times.

I do not like Trump's moral values. I'd prefer Pence's values any day. And Obama yes Obama despite my dislike towards his liberal polices I fully respect his moral values. He is failry straight family guy with upstanding values.

However, I want a presdient that will make america great again. I want someone who won't fall for the garbage that surrounds politics. And that man is Trump.I like Trump's altitude and policies not his values.

America is well on its way to being controlled by Russia. How many of our family's fled Russia in search of the freedom to practice Judaism?

Just today, Russia expelled another Chabad rabbi claiming that he threatens Russia's security by bringing Jewish observance to the country's Jews.

Maybe that is "great" in your book, but in mine it is the stuff of nightmares.

BTW. attitude and policy is based upon one's values.

Trump's attitude, policies and values are the opposite of Judaism.

55

 May 20, 2017 at 09:55 PM Anonymous Says:

to #27-You stated that as a Black hatter, you often go into trefe restaurants for a business meeting. However, in the case of Ivanka and Jared, they were not frequenting the various eating establishments in the D.C. area for "business meetings", but for recreational reasons. Incidentally, the Modern Orthodox do not participate in mixed dancing. It is the conservatives who do so.

56

 May 20, 2017 at 10:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
yonasonw Says:

Flying on Shabbos is prohibited. Period.

From dailyhalacha.com...1 of 2

"According to Halacha it is unequivocally forbidden to fly on Shabbat, for many different reasons. For one thing, Halacha forbids traveling beyond two thousand Amot (cubits) outside one's city on Shabbat. And although this prohibition (which is known as "Techum Shabbat") generally does not apply higher than ten Tefachim (handbreadths) in the air, in this case it likely will apply given the size of the aircraft. Furthermore, one would be unable to use the restrooms on the plane, as the light switches on or off whenever one opens or closes the doors. In addition, planes are equipped with all kinds of electronic sensors, such that one's movement in the aircraft invariably activates some electronic device. It should also be noted that any food served during a flight has been heated on the plane, and therefore one who eats food on a flight during Shabbat will be deriving benefit from forbidden activity, which Halacha prohibits....

Lol! Yonasonw, the biggest hater and maligner of the frum, the biggest spreader of Lashon hara, not to mention the most unintelligent of the liberal idiots, has the gall to speak of what's halachically permissible?! Now that's rich!

57

 May 20, 2017 at 10:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
yonasonw Says:

Flying on Shabbos is prohibited. Period.

From dailyhalacha.com...Comment

We now have a new "Movement," Jared/Ivanka Judaism...to add to the historical tragedies that are Reform and Conservative.

More seriously, we see how morally bankrupt Rabbis can be when they get too close to politicians and politics. One wonders if they read Pirchei Avos...or simply don't really care.

A Hillul Hashem big time.

"Pirchei" Avos? "Hillul" Hashem? Well it's pretty clear how little you know and how unqualified you are to give your (dumb) opinion on this (or most other subjects )

58

 May 20, 2017 at 10:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
yonasonw Says:

You're an apologist

You're a Jew hating phony hypocrite. To you everything Obama did was kosher. Shmigegi.

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 May 20, 2017 at 10:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #31  
yonasonw Says:

This is Part 2, following my comment 19

Flying on Shabbos is prohibited. Period.

From dailyhalacha.com...2 of 2

..."Some authorities further claim that one's presence on the aircraft adds to the weight supported by the engine, and thus causes more fuel to be burned. Finally, it is clearly impossible to properly fulfill the obligation of Oneg Shabbat – enjoying oneself on Shabbat – while flying on an airplane.

For all these reasons, as well as many others, Halacha categorically forbids flying on an airplane on Shabbat, even if the plane takes off before Shabbat and lands after Shabbat."

Newsflash : no one cared about your part 1.

60

 May 20, 2017 at 10:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #46  
yonasonw Says:

"Mixed dancing in the MO circles is normal"

Completely untrue

It happens to Be cometely true and I've seen it with my Own eyes many times as I grew up modern orthodox. All simchas are Mixed seating and mixed dancing is the norm. Yonasonw, why don't you stop spewing lies as if you know what you're talking about. You don't.

61

 May 20, 2017 at 10:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #55  
Anonymous Says:

to #27-You stated that as a Black hatter, you often go into trefe restaurants for a business meeting. However, in the case of Ivanka and Jared, they were not frequenting the various eating establishments in the D.C. area for "business meetings", but for recreational reasons. Incidentally, the Modern Orthodox do not participate in mixed dancing. It is the conservatives who do so.

You couldn't be more wrong. Modern Orthodox do indeed mixed dancing. I've been to so many weddings and bar mitzvahs of modern Orthodox, I have many friends who are modern Orthodox, who I know well, and they all do mixed dancing. I love when these idiots spew nonsense that they have no idea about.

62

 May 21, 2017 at 12:27 AM georgeg Says:

Reply to #52  
gimmeabreak Says:

It is so entertaining to read the posts by people tying themselves into Halachic knots in efforts to defend the actions of theTrumps and coming up with reasoning that would never be allowed for anyone else. It's really very simple. The permission for a trip such as this can always be granted based upon what it says in Chapter הכסף מדבר.

The Kushners are not paid for their efforts, and in fact lose by not attending to their own businesses. But in terms of "tying themselves into Halachic knots" I am glad to see that you agree with the Sadducees of the Dead Sea Scrolls who seem to have excised Megillat Esther from their canon (all other books in our Tanach are found). After all, we know that the seventh day of the government goyish party mentioned is Shabbat (so the Talmud makes clear) and the adviser who advised the drunk king in his anger was Daniel (so states the Talmud) and that means Daniel was at the goyish party on Shabbat. Obviously fake. Be sure to make that clear to everyone caught celebrating this phony Purim holiday. Or, you might consider that the Talmud is telling you to recognize matters of State as serious matters and accept Purim. Pick one.

63

 May 21, 2017 at 01:12 PM gimmeabreak Says:

Reply to #62  
georgeg Says:

The Kushners are not paid for their efforts, and in fact lose by not attending to their own businesses. But in terms of "tying themselves into Halachic knots" I am glad to see that you agree with the Sadducees of the Dead Sea Scrolls who seem to have excised Megillat Esther from their canon (all other books in our Tanach are found). After all, we know that the seventh day of the government goyish party mentioned is Shabbat (so the Talmud makes clear) and the adviser who advised the drunk king in his anger was Daniel (so states the Talmud) and that means Daniel was at the goyish party on Shabbat. Obviously fake. Be sure to make that clear to everyone caught celebrating this phony Purim holiday. Or, you might consider that the Talmud is telling you to recognize matters of State as serious matters and accept Purim. Pick one.

What the h*ll are you babbling about? BTW. Did Daniel drive or fly on Shabbos to get to the party?

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 Jun 02, 2017 at 10:33 AM Texas_Joe Says:

It is quite amusing to see comments purporting to pasken complicated halakha from a website. If yidn actually think that is how hora'ah works, then we are way further lost in Golus than I imagined.

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