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New Jersey - Lakewood Rabbi, Others Arrested In FBI Raids Over Alleged Welfare Fraud

Published on: June 26, 2017 09:02 AM
Last updated on: June 26, 2017 05:23 PM
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FBI conducting raids  in connection with a public-assistance fraud scheme in Lakewood, N.J.(The Asbury Park Press via AP)FBI conducting raids in connection with a public-assistance fraud scheme in Lakewood, N.J.(The Asbury Park Press via AP)

Lakewood, NJ -  A New Jersey rabbi and his wife and three other couples defrauded state and federal public assistance programs out of more than $1 million by underreporting their incomes, according to criminal complaints released Monday.

One of the couples continued to receive Medicaid assistance for their children despite making more than $1 million in both 2012 and 2013, according to one criminal complaint. Another continued receiving benefits in 2014, even though they made $1.8 million the year before, prosecutors said.

Ocean County Prosecutor Joseph Coronato said more arrests are expected as a result of the investigation centered on Lakewood, a New Jersey shore town that is home to a large and growing ultra-Orthodox Jewish community.

Rabbi Zalmen Sorotzkin, of Congregation Lutzk, and his wife, Tzipporah, were charged with collecting more than $338,000 in benefits prosecutors said they weren’t entitled to. Their attorney said they will plead not guilty.

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They were charged in state court along with Mordechai and Jocheved Breskin, who prosecutors said collected more than $585,000 in benefits they weren’t entitled to.

Zalmen Sorotzkin’s brother, Mordechai, and his wife, Rachel, were one of two couples charged in separate federal complaints with conspiring to fraudulently obtain Medicaid benefits.

They made more than $1 million in 2012 and in 2013, the complaint alleges, but still received more than $96,000 in Medicaid benefits, including $22,000 to pay for medical expenses when their sixth child was born in November 2013.

“Everything is going to work out and all will be vindicated,” said Rachel Sorotzkin’s attorney, Fred Zemel.

The couples charged in federal court were released on $100,000 bond and their travel limited to New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania, while the couples charged in state court were released without bail, but had to surrender their passports.

According to a federal complaint, Yocheved and Shimon Nussbaum hid their income by creating companies that were run by relatives on paper, but that they actually controlled. They made a total of $1.8 million in 2013, but still received Section 8, Medicaid and food benefits into 2014, prosecutors said.

The investigation was initiated by the FBI and the New Jersey Office of the State Comptroller. It later expanded to include U.S. Social Security Administration, the state Department of the Treasury and the Ocean County prosecutor’s office.

“Financial assistance programs are designed to alleviate family hardships for those truly in need,” Coronato said in a statement. “My office gave clear guidance and notice to the Lakewood community in 2015 of what is considered financial abuse of these programs.

“Those who choose to ignore those warnings by seeking to illegally profit on the backs of taxpayers will pay the punitive price of their actions.”



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Read Comments (81)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Jun 26, 2017 at 09:15 AM TruthIsIt Says:

Very nice, now every Goy will look at me today.....

2

 Jun 26, 2017 at 09:42 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
TruthIsIt Says:

Very nice, now every Goy will look at me today.....

Amazing how all you can think about is yourself.

3

 Jun 26, 2017 at 09:11 AM Anonymous Says:

Here we go again! Unfortunately the FBI doesn't give out medals for the ehrliche yidden but they exist so let's focus on the good people in the community who wake up every morning to do the right thing!

4

 Jun 26, 2017 at 10:04 AM Realist77 Says:

The community will claim "anti-Semitism" as opposed to looking at the fraud they committed. What a chillul Hashem. Benefits are supposed to be an aid, not a lifestyle. The FBI should continue to crack down on these thieves.

5

 Jun 26, 2017 at 10:18 AM Barzilai Says:

This court of public opinion has already convicted him and denied any appeal, even though the facts haven't been proven, and there are certain types of income that do not have to be reported in public aid applications - like gifts from a parent that chooses to support his children. Exactly who are the anti-semites?

6

 Jun 26, 2017 at 10:41 AM Mark Levin Says:

4,

I hope HKB'H judges you more favorable than your judge them. SHAME ON YOU!!!

7

 Jun 26, 2017 at 10:42 AM ShoinTzeit Says:

Time for the frum community to acknowledge that honesty and integrity are also Torah values. Hopefully this high-profile raid awakens our community.

8

 Jun 26, 2017 at 10:47 AM Anonymous Says:

Once again this self hating jewish website is printing names of people accused of a crime no convicted.

9

 Jun 26, 2017 at 10:53 AM Anonymous Says:

We need classes on dinah d'malchusah dinah.

10

 Jun 26, 2017 at 11:21 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
TruthIsIt Says:

Very nice, now every Goy will look at me today.....

I hate to tell you they look at you EVERYDAY.

11

 Jun 26, 2017 at 11:22 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
TruthIsIt Says:

Very nice, now every Goy will look at me today.....

nebech, nebech

12

 Jun 26, 2017 at 11:27 AM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #5  
Barzilai Says:

This court of public opinion has already convicted him and denied any appeal, even though the facts haven't been proven, and there are certain types of income that do not have to be reported in public aid applications - like gifts from a parent that chooses to support his children. Exactly who are the anti-semites?

No one is anti-semite. Unfortunately many of us who view this site live in this kid of community. There is a perception that this kind of stuff continues to go on. Is the perception true? I think so but I could be wrong. But every time a news story like this comes out it does seem to be true.

It's a huge chillul hashem. Personally I do not blame these people. They are a Korbon for the Klal. I blame the system (aka Rabbonim) who banged into many peoples heads that kollel is good, work and learning a trade is bad. At the same time you need to pay tuition,mortgage etc... Now true many in Lakewood do work but it's not enough. Even those with good jobs and a college degree sometimes is not enough. We need a better system.

We cannot continue to support so many Kollelim. We need the money to be pooled and go to elementary, high school's etc... Yes there should be Kolles but not for every single person. Only our best and brightest should go to Kollels. so they become Talmedie Chachoim, Rabbeim and Rabbonim. I have said in the past. The people who get hurt the most that many people are in Kollel's are the people who actually belong in Kollel!! We should be supporting our best!!

13

 Jun 26, 2017 at 11:00 AM kehati Says:

Obviously nobody should condemn anybody unless and until all relevant facts have emerged and been proven. Having said that, it's astounding that so many in our community avail themselves of welfare and make it a way of life. Our parents/grandparents came to this land as broken Holocaust survivors, and to get established, often worked in menial jobs in factories, yet would never have thought of taking a penny from the government. Were they suckers? I doubt it - they were our role models. There is little question that this dependence on welfare leads to a moral corruption in our community with all of the consequences that we see all too often.

14

 Jun 26, 2017 at 11:28 AM roosting chickens Says:

This is in indictment of the the crum hashkafa of relying on government programs to support our expensive religious lifestyle. This crum haskafa has been actively pushed for decades by many in leadership positions in our community both here and in Eretz Yisroel and passively pushed by leaders who did not speak out vociferously against it. There are three things needed to right the ship and correct this problem. Firstly our leaders have to encourage our children to get a proper education so that they are capable of earning an honest living prior to getting married and have to telegraph a positive message about the work ethic. Secondly the wealthy people in our community have to fund our educational institutions so that parents are not bankrupted because of the high tuition. Thirdly the wealthy people in our community must fully fund educational programming for special needs children so that families with such children do not have to become impoverished trying to help their kids.

15

 Jun 26, 2017 at 11:29 AM Anonymous Says:

Maybe getting a gainful employment would solve the issue

16

 Jun 26, 2017 at 11:42 AM mr613 Says:

It's unfortunate that these individuals and they're beneficiaries cannot or are unwilling to survive without committing fraud. The system they follow awards high praise for choosing voluntary poverty status.
Learn in kolel and no worries...... programs..... handouts.....

This lunacy is unsustainable it will and is emploding !!!

17

 Jun 26, 2017 at 11:46 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Realist77 Says:

The community will claim "anti-Semitism" as opposed to looking at the fraud they committed. What a chillul Hashem. Benefits are supposed to be an aid, not a lifestyle. The FBI should continue to crack down on these thieves.

You are correct.However where's the "righteous" speech for all the Russians who never paid a dime of taxes as the majority of the people do ,& get everything for free ???

18

 Jun 26, 2017 at 11:49 AM triumphinwhitehouse Says:

here come the false claims of "anti-Semitism" they even had a man escort the man and a woman the woman. The FBI can easily do this weekly if they wanted in Lakewood, KJ, Willy, BP and Monsey. This I hope is a start, now all the heimish orgs. that do nothing for tuition paying parents will submit letters of support for these not as of yet guilty felons to ask for leniency. This is what the decent real Americans of Toms River and Jackson want to avoid.

19

 Jun 26, 2017 at 12:00 PM hashomer Says:

Reply to #5  
Barzilai Says:

This court of public opinion has already convicted him and denied any appeal, even though the facts haven't been proven, and there are certain types of income that do not have to be reported in public aid applications - like gifts from a parent that chooses to support his children. Exactly who are the anti-semites?

The indictment says they purposely under-reported their income to get benefits, so stop dreaming up excuses for them. Too bad for all of us.

20

 Jun 26, 2017 at 12:04 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

Once again this self hating jewish website is printing names of people accused of a crime no convicted.

The story has already appeared in several secular media outlets, including the names of those arrested, so all VIN is doing is repeating what is already public knowledge.I

21

 Jun 26, 2017 at 12:19 PM Adopt A Job Says:

Reply to #14  
roosting chickens Says:

This is in indictment of the the crum hashkafa of relying on government programs to support our expensive religious lifestyle. This crum haskafa has been actively pushed for decades by many in leadership positions in our community both here and in Eretz Yisroel and passively pushed by leaders who did not speak out vociferously against it. There are three things needed to right the ship and correct this problem. Firstly our leaders have to encourage our children to get a proper education so that they are capable of earning an honest living prior to getting married and have to telegraph a positive message about the work ethic. Secondly the wealthy people in our community have to fund our educational institutions so that parents are not bankrupted because of the high tuition. Thirdly the wealthy people in our community must fully fund educational programming for special needs children so that families with such children do not have to become impoverished trying to help their kids.

Almost perfect post. I have been saying this for years.

One slight point that I beg to differ on, is your line where you wrote

"our leaders have to encourage our children to get a proper education so that they are capable of earning an honest living prior to getting married "

If you mean a high school education then yes you are 1000% correct. However if you referring to a college education I beg to differ.

Firstly, an 18 year old often does not know what he wants to do yet in terms of a earning a livelihood. Even if he chooses a generic degree lime accounting by the time he is 25/26 and married or after a yr in two in kollel dynamics changed. I have many friends who attended college at that young age. They mostly earned accounting degrees. However, many either don't use them or have decided to get other degrees. Thus all that money, time and energy was wasted. And many are not cut out for "educated" careers. Some people do better as salesmen or warehouse mangers. Just forcing 18 yr olds to get a degree is silly.

Part 1

22

 Jun 26, 2017 at 12:29 PM Adopt A Job Says:

Reply to #14  
roosting chickens Says:

This is in indictment of the the crum hashkafa of relying on government programs to support our expensive religious lifestyle. This crum haskafa has been actively pushed for decades by many in leadership positions in our community both here and in Eretz Yisroel and passively pushed by leaders who did not speak out vociferously against it. There are three things needed to right the ship and correct this problem. Firstly our leaders have to encourage our children to get a proper education so that they are capable of earning an honest living prior to getting married and have to telegraph a positive message about the work ethic. Secondly the wealthy people in our community have to fund our educational institutions so that parents are not bankrupted because of the high tuition. Thirdly the wealthy people in our community must fully fund educational programming for special needs children so that families with such children do not have to become impoverished trying to help their kids.

Secondly, the standard in the secular society is that one earns an internship the summer of their senior year in school. They then often obtain a job during their senior year or at least shortly after graduation. If you earn a degree then continue learning in yeshiva till marriage, you will have a hard time finding a job as you are no longer freshly out of college and you likely had no internship either.

And then there is something to learning torah undisturbed as well.

That's why I believe its OK to wait till after marriage when you know what you want to do and what best works for you. It often only takes 18-24 months at the right program. Of course that means preparing in advance so you don't wait till you are up the creek and pressed against the wall. But typically, the bills don't pill up that quick before having lots of kids. If you decide for example when your wife is pregnant with her first that's usually ample time. As long as children are taught that they should work for a living and not rely on programs for long term needs (short term is OK) since it will just put you in a pickle that's enough.

Unfortunately in Israel its completely treif to even think about work.

23

 Jun 26, 2017 at 12:36 PM Maven Says:

IF they are convicted what a Chilul Hashem. And that is IF.

Unbelievable to watch the nasty comments thrown at Frum Jews.But,that's life.

However,these same Orthodox Jew haters get offended when we say things against Zionism and the Torah forbidden state of Israel screaming: Loshan Hora" "Loshan Hora".

24

 Jun 26, 2017 at 12:41 PM yosef chaim b. .r .s Says:

if he's realy clean he would not be arrested ,even genaivah from a malchus horisha is an issur dorysah they say vechay bohem zeh parnosah . A chillul hashem especialy with such a hi profile name

25

 Jun 26, 2017 at 12:07 PM No Roosting chicken Says:

Reply to #14  
roosting chickens Says:

This is in indictment of the the crum hashkafa of relying on government programs to support our expensive religious lifestyle. This crum haskafa has been actively pushed for decades by many in leadership positions in our community both here and in Eretz Yisroel and passively pushed by leaders who did not speak out vociferously against it. There are three things needed to right the ship and correct this problem. Firstly our leaders have to encourage our children to get a proper education so that they are capable of earning an honest living prior to getting married and have to telegraph a positive message about the work ethic. Secondly the wealthy people in our community have to fund our educational institutions so that parents are not bankrupted because of the high tuition. Thirdly the wealthy people in our community must fully fund educational programming for special needs children so that families with such children do not have to become impoverished trying to help their kids.

I agree with your basic premise but I think you are wrong when you obligate the wealthy to do anything you state. The statement you said, "This crum haskafa has been actively pushed for decades by many in leadership positions in our community both here and in Eretz Yisroel", is a landmark.
1. Good luck with obligating the wealthy to support Yeshivas. They might suggest that they give what they feel like and more responsibility should fall on parents paying tuition. If the parents can't pay then they might have to reevaluate family size.
2, I totally think you are wrong with support to special needs schooling. These organizations are not poverty stricken. They get very good funding from the State and fedreal sources. Donations eventually go to over the top salaries, bonuses and contracts to their own families. One organization was exposed paying a salary of $400,000 to their chief, another was paying the chiefs daughter in another state to make phone calls, as if there was nobody qualified within 300 miles.

26

 Jun 26, 2017 at 12:10 PM yosef chaim b. .r .s Says:

The name rabbi ? Zalmon Sorotzkin !!!what a bezayon to be arrested .We dont care if he is guilty ,or inocent. Because If you are a clean yid who doesnt cheat, lie and steel they will not arrest you, period. ! ! ! Some thing he did do ---- my nakfka mineh , something shmutzig Dos haist a chillul hashem on all klall yisroel . It all comes b/c no parnaseh , Vechay bohem says chazal zeh parnoseh .A rosho steals even from a malchus horisha fehhhh

27

 Jun 26, 2017 at 12:31 PM Educated Archy Says:

Reply to #14  
roosting chickens Says:

This is in indictment of the the crum hashkafa of relying on government programs to support our expensive religious lifestyle. This crum haskafa has been actively pushed for decades by many in leadership positions in our community both here and in Eretz Yisroel and passively pushed by leaders who did not speak out vociferously against it. There are three things needed to right the ship and correct this problem. Firstly our leaders have to encourage our children to get a proper education so that they are capable of earning an honest living prior to getting married and have to telegraph a positive message about the work ethic. Secondly the wealthy people in our community have to fund our educational institutions so that parents are not bankrupted because of the high tuition. Thirdly the wealthy people in our community must fully fund educational programming for special needs children so that families with such children do not have to become impoverished trying to help their kids.

Yonsaonw,

These are your programs that you so vehemently defend. As I often stated, those that really need it don't get it. Its the ones that know how to "work the system". Our government is broken. Time to make america great again.

28

 Jun 26, 2017 at 12:46 PM ShoinTzeit Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

You are correct.However where's the "righteous" speech for all the Russians who never paid a dime of taxes as the majority of the people do ,& get everything for free ???

Why do you assume that we need to be the absolute most corrupt people on earth before anyone can give mussar? Are you OK with all frum fraud as long as there is some scumbag out there who is doing worse?

29

 Jun 26, 2017 at 01:04 PM Taxbucky Says:

Reply to #13  
kehati Says:

Obviously nobody should condemn anybody unless and until all relevant facts have emerged and been proven. Having said that, it's astounding that so many in our community avail themselves of welfare and make it a way of life. Our parents/grandparents came to this land as broken Holocaust survivors, and to get established, often worked in menial jobs in factories, yet would never have thought of taking a penny from the government. Were they suckers? I doubt it - they were our role models. There is little question that this dependence on welfare leads to a moral corruption in our community with all of the consequences that we see all too often.

So true
Not to mention the survivors worked hard to learn the language, become citizens and had Hakoros Hatov to America for letting them settle here. None of this "You owe me" mentality. True not all remained frum ( Can you blame them?) but they lived honest lives within their means

30

 Jun 26, 2017 at 01:43 PM fat36 Says:

I know someone who lives on section 8 had Medicaid all the benefits and have to give it up when he got a job. Now he feels like he's an ATM machine for the government he has to work his tail off to come home with a few extra dollars after paying rent insurance and taxes he's basically worse off now than he was before. Killing himself I'm left with nothing.he feels he should've stayed with all those benefits that he had I found a cash job

31

 Jun 26, 2017 at 01:44 PM Shlomo2 Says:

It would appear from new reports that the people in question were not lacking advanced degrees and got on to FBI radar BECAUSE of the their involvement in businesses tied to their use of their advanced degrees.

32

 Jun 26, 2017 at 01:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #23  
Maven Says:

IF they are convicted what a Chilul Hashem. And that is IF.

Unbelievable to watch the nasty comments thrown at Frum Jews.But,that's life.

However,these same Orthodox Jew haters get offended when we say things against Zionism and the Torah forbidden state of Israel screaming: Loshan Hora" "Loshan Hora".

So the State of Israel is "Torah forbidden" while stealing from the government is mutar?

33

 Jun 26, 2017 at 01:50 PM Esther Says:

Reply to #12  
FBF37 Says:

No one is anti-semite. Unfortunately many of us who view this site live in this kid of community. There is a perception that this kind of stuff continues to go on. Is the perception true? I think so but I could be wrong. But every time a news story like this comes out it does seem to be true.

It's a huge chillul hashem. Personally I do not blame these people. They are a Korbon for the Klal. I blame the system (aka Rabbonim) who banged into many peoples heads that kollel is good, work and learning a trade is bad. At the same time you need to pay tuition,mortgage etc... Now true many in Lakewood do work but it's not enough. Even those with good jobs and a college degree sometimes is not enough. We need a better system.

We cannot continue to support so many Kollelim. We need the money to be pooled and go to elementary, high school's etc... Yes there should be Kolles but not for every single person. Only our best and brightest should go to Kollels. so they become Talmedie Chachoim, Rabbeim and Rabbonim. I have said in the past. The people who get hurt the most that many people are in Kollel's are the people who actually belong in Kollel!! We should be supporting our best!!

This doesn't seem to have anything to do with Kolel.This is about greed.

34

 Jun 26, 2017 at 02:15 PM Esther Says:

IMHO the main aspect of this story is not kolel. As in other frum communities,many in Lakewood live a lavish lifestyle and there seems to be a lot of pressure to do so. That takes money.

35

 Jun 26, 2017 at 02:40 PM Mordechai Says:

I do not want to judge these people. But in general, the cost of a frum life is much more expensive than a goy, yet the earning potential of a Yungerman and his family is much less than that of a goy.
Therefore, we are going to claim more state benefits than that of a goy. If the people that could effect change, did so, we wouldn't be here now.

36

 Jun 26, 2017 at 03:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
kehati Says:

Obviously nobody should condemn anybody unless and until all relevant facts have emerged and been proven. Having said that, it's astounding that so many in our community avail themselves of welfare and make it a way of life. Our parents/grandparents came to this land as broken Holocaust survivors, and to get established, often worked in menial jobs in factories, yet would never have thought of taking a penny from the government. Were they suckers? I doubt it - they were our role models. There is little question that this dependence on welfare leads to a moral corruption in our community with all of the consequences that we see all too often.

Our parents and grandparents were able to LIVE on those factory jobs because they paid a living wage back then.

In addition to factory jobs providing a living wage, our parents and grandparents were able to retire to gov't subsidized senior citizen housing (often in beautiful places like Miami Beach and Atlantic City), they were able to live decently on Social Security and they were able to get good health care thanks to Medicare.

Our parents and grandparents were able to rely upon good public transportation when they could no longer drive and if they needed a nursing home, the community was able to provide decent care for our parents thanks to Medicare.

It is not likely that our generation will be able to fall back on any of these thing.

37

 Jun 26, 2017 at 03:04 PM Educated Archy Says:

Reply to #35  
Mordechai Says:

I do not want to judge these people. But in general, the cost of a frum life is much more expensive than a goy, yet the earning potential of a Yungerman and his family is much less than that of a goy.
Therefore, we are going to claim more state benefits than that of a goy. If the people that could effect change, did so, we wouldn't be here now.

"yet the earning potential of a Yungerman and his family is much less than that of a goy"

Why is that so? I work with lots of goyim and have equal earning potential?

I do agree with your first statement that "the cost of a frum life is much more expensive than a goy"

38

 Jun 26, 2017 at 03:06 PM AyinRoeh Says:

There are tzvei dinim here. Someone who is in Kollel and his wife has a job, they will qualify for programs in most cases. That's not fraud. People can debate whether it's a good idea or not, but it's perfectly legal. Fraud is a separate issue and clearly illegal.

39

 Jun 26, 2017 at 03:12 PM Taxbucky Says:

Reply to #35  
Mordechai Says:

I do not want to judge these people. But in general, the cost of a frum life is much more expensive than a goy, yet the earning potential of a Yungerman and his family is much less than that of a goy.
Therefore, we are going to claim more state benefits than that of a goy. If the people that could effect change, did so, we wouldn't be here now.

So your saying it's ok to cheat?

40

 Jun 26, 2017 at 03:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

Here we go again! Unfortunately the FBI doesn't give out medals for the ehrliche yidden but they exist so let's focus on the good people in the community who wake up every morning to do the right thing!

Amen!

41

 Jun 26, 2017 at 03:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #27  
Educated Archy Says:

Yonsaonw,

These are your programs that you so vehemently defend. As I often stated, those that really need it don't get it. Its the ones that know how to "work the system". Our government is broken. Time to make america great again.

for the 1% percenters like Trump? Right?

42

 Jun 26, 2017 at 03:27 PM The_Truth Says:

2 of 2

BUT, you dont find anyone encouraging getting a job/career to pay for it. You dont find anyone encouraging living a more frugal lifestyle. The peer pressure to live up community / development / neighbors standards is enormous. (Much more than in other communities I find.) Where norms of Gashmios are not kept to, but exceeded at every simcha, event, kiddush, house, or party. (All in the name of "Ruchnious" of course )

This was unfortunately inevitable and I'm sure will mushroom over time as this unfolds.

It will only get worse unless people are ehrlich & live within their means.

43

 Jun 26, 2017 at 04:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
AyinRoeh Says:

There are tzvei dinim here. Someone who is in Kollel and his wife has a job, they will qualify for programs in most cases. That's not fraud. People can debate whether it's a good idea or not, but it's perfectly legal. Fraud is a separate issue and clearly illegal.

The issue in this discussion is not the legality. Clearly lying about eligibility is fraud. But the true question is whether the yungerman choosing to sit and learn while sending his wife to work is morally entitled to the entitlements. On whose cheshbon is he sitting and learning? If he can support himself, fine. If his wife's earnings are enough, fine. If his parents and/or in-laws wish to provide support, fine. But the federal and state governments have no such obligation. And, as a taxpayer, am not fond of those too lazy to work.

44

 Jun 26, 2017 at 04:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #26  
yosef chaim b. .r .s Says:

The name rabbi ? Zalmon Sorotzkin !!!what a bezayon to be arrested .We dont care if he is guilty ,or inocent. Because If you are a clean yid who doesnt cheat, lie and steel they will not arrest you, period. ! ! ! Some thing he did do ---- my nakfka mineh , something shmutzig Dos haist a chillul hashem on all klall yisroel . It all comes b/c no parnaseh , Vechay bohem says chazal zeh parnoseh .A rosho steals even from a malchus horisha fehhhh

It all comes b/c no parnaseh ,..............which part of 'they hid their serious incomes' screams no parnasah to you?

45

 Jun 26, 2017 at 04:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
Adopt A Job Says:

Secondly, the standard in the secular society is that one earns an internship the summer of their senior year in school. They then often obtain a job during their senior year or at least shortly after graduation. If you earn a degree then continue learning in yeshiva till marriage, you will have a hard time finding a job as you are no longer freshly out of college and you likely had no internship either.

And then there is something to learning torah undisturbed as well.

That's why I believe its OK to wait till after marriage when you know what you want to do and what best works for you. It often only takes 18-24 months at the right program. Of course that means preparing in advance so you don't wait till you are up the creek and pressed against the wall. But typically, the bills don't pill up that quick before having lots of kids. If you decide for example when your wife is pregnant with her first that's usually ample time. As long as children are taught that they should work for a living and not rely on programs for long term needs (short term is OK) since it will just put you in a pickle that's enough.

Unfortunately in Israel its completely treif to even think about work.

Your comments do not fit in with reality.
First of all, statistics show that college graduates earn higher salaries than high school grads. Most decent-paying jobs now require a college degree. Even many sales jobs now require degrees.
Second, though attending college at 18 may be too early for some, it's ridiculous to hold off till after marriage, when there are too many distractions. Before long, there are babies and small children demanding your time and attention, making it harder to study.
Third, no respectable degree program takes only 18-24 months to complete. Sure there are colleges that are willing to take your money and churn out a degree, but most employers are aware of the shortcomings of these degree programs and won't hire a graduate of these schools.
If someone wants to take a year or two off to learn before college, and can afford to do so, fine. But expect to put in 4 years to earn a degree worth anything.

46

 Jun 26, 2017 at 04:33 PM Esther Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

Our parents and grandparents were able to LIVE on those factory jobs because they paid a living wage back then.

In addition to factory jobs providing a living wage, our parents and grandparents were able to retire to gov't subsidized senior citizen housing (often in beautiful places like Miami Beach and Atlantic City), they were able to live decently on Social Security and they were able to get good health care thanks to Medicare.

Our parents and grandparents were able to rely upon good public transportation when they could no longer drive and if they needed a nursing home, the community was able to provide decent care for our parents thanks to Medicare.

It is not likely that our generation will be able to fall back on any of these thing.

They also knew how to live within their means.

47

 Jun 26, 2017 at 04:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #12  
FBF37 Says:

No one is anti-semite. Unfortunately many of us who view this site live in this kid of community. There is a perception that this kind of stuff continues to go on. Is the perception true? I think so but I could be wrong. But every time a news story like this comes out it does seem to be true.

It's a huge chillul hashem. Personally I do not blame these people. They are a Korbon for the Klal. I blame the system (aka Rabbonim) who banged into many peoples heads that kollel is good, work and learning a trade is bad. At the same time you need to pay tuition,mortgage etc... Now true many in Lakewood do work but it's not enough. Even those with good jobs and a college degree sometimes is not enough. We need a better system.

We cannot continue to support so many Kollelim. We need the money to be pooled and go to elementary, high school's etc... Yes there should be Kolles but not for every single person. Only our best and brightest should go to Kollels. so they become Talmedie Chachoim, Rabbeim and Rabbonim. I have said in the past. The people who get hurt the most that many people are in Kollel's are the people who actually belong in Kollel!! We should be supporting our best!!

These people were making money and not kollel men if they were making over $300,000. One thing is I notice how did somebody cheat the system out of $585,000 in a year. Even with claiming 15 children you don't get that amound

48

 Jun 26, 2017 at 04:46 PM diemaynstazdiebiztklieg Says:

Why do people love to use a sad shameful story as this one and someone's downfall to trumpet their negative views and jealousy?
Let's say the accusations are well founded and these individuals are rachmono litzlan found guilty, does that make our system corrupt and defunct. Does this mean that our community does not have correct values and our way of life is no more a Kiddush hashem. When you have let's say only ten yungerleit, their wives and children who could be earning degrees and billing their clients for their services millions of dollars a year for their services (doctors and lawyers etc..), and instead they are being moser nefesh to serve hashem mitoch hadechak mitoch simcha that is not the biggest Kiddush hashem? And we have Boruch hashem thousands of such families worldwide that is a tremendous Kiddush shem shomayim!

49

 Jun 26, 2017 at 04:55 PM AyinRoeh Says:

Reply to #43  
Anonymous Says:

The issue in this discussion is not the legality. Clearly lying about eligibility is fraud. But the true question is whether the yungerman choosing to sit and learn while sending his wife to work is morally entitled to the entitlements. On whose cheshbon is he sitting and learning? If he can support himself, fine. If his wife's earnings are enough, fine. If his parents and/or in-laws wish to provide support, fine. But the federal and state governments have no such obligation. And, as a taxpayer, am not fond of those too lazy to work.

I meant "the issue" of the posted article. Your points are very valid and I probably agree. But the point of the posted article was fraud, and not the general Kollel lifestyle.

50

 Jun 26, 2017 at 05:14 PM boobi Says:

Reply to #48  
diemaynstazdiebiztklieg Says:

Why do people love to use a sad shameful story as this one and someone's downfall to trumpet their negative views and jealousy?
Let's say the accusations are well founded and these individuals are rachmono litzlan found guilty, does that make our system corrupt and defunct. Does this mean that our community does not have correct values and our way of life is no more a Kiddush hashem. When you have let's say only ten yungerleit, their wives and children who could be earning degrees and billing their clients for their services millions of dollars a year for their services (doctors and lawyers etc..), and instead they are being moser nefesh to serve hashem mitoch hadechak mitoch simcha that is not the biggest Kiddush hashem? And we have Boruch hashem thousands of such families worldwide that is a tremendous Kiddush shem shomayim!

You are not fooling anybody with your kiddush hashem nonsense,you are only fooling yourself,those who learn and dont work or are thiefs as we see it here are truly against the toreh not for it the chillel hashem is beyond the pale you are using the toreh as a copout shame on you.

51

 Jun 26, 2017 at 04:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #12  
FBF37 Says:

No one is anti-semite. Unfortunately many of us who view this site live in this kid of community. There is a perception that this kind of stuff continues to go on. Is the perception true? I think so but I could be wrong. But every time a news story like this comes out it does seem to be true.

It's a huge chillul hashem. Personally I do not blame these people. They are a Korbon for the Klal. I blame the system (aka Rabbonim) who banged into many peoples heads that kollel is good, work and learning a trade is bad. At the same time you need to pay tuition,mortgage etc... Now true many in Lakewood do work but it's not enough. Even those with good jobs and a college degree sometimes is not enough. We need a better system.

We cannot continue to support so many Kollelim. We need the money to be pooled and go to elementary, high school's etc... Yes there should be Kolles but not for every single person. Only our best and brightest should go to Kollels. so they become Talmedie Chachoim, Rabbeim and Rabbonim. I have said in the past. The people who get hurt the most that many people are in Kollel's are the people who actually belong in Kollel!! We should be supporting our best!!

1. It is costly to live as a frum Jew, schooling, kashrus even clothing
2. The government encourages thief by taking away so much when they start to earn something.
3. The government gives things that people have become accustom even though
originally you would not have thought to buy
4. People on welfare are giving cell phones ridiculous
5, The standard of living today is too high. People have 3 cars, 1 for husband and wife and one for Sunday. In Eretz Yisrael people have a van and use it for both and their is only one car per family.
6, Nosh is out of hand. How much do people spend on Nosh. I know many peoplewho just about have enough money to buy bread but on Shabbos Kodesh need nosh so their kids will not fill as nebachs.
7 Take away. Whether taking prepared foods for during the week or for Shabbos
or going out to eat or buying even Pizza cost money. I am not rich but we make everything at home including fallel. I am on the road normal 4 days a week I take coffee from home. I have never been in Starbucks and it isn't because of kashrus.
8 clothss
Look at this list and it does not touch at not even the basic of why people can't stand the pressure and cave into thievery

52

 Jun 26, 2017 at 05:35 PM The_Truth Says:

Reply to #50  
boobi Says:

You are not fooling anybody with your kiddush hashem nonsense,you are only fooling yourself,those who learn and dont work or are thiefs as we see it here are truly against the toreh not for it the chillel hashem is beyond the pale you are using the toreh as a copout shame on you.

Or you can look at it from the other way around.
Mi Keamcha Yisrael!
How great are Jews that they don't go and steal and live lavish lifestyles, but live in small modest homes, only eat the barest necessities to survive, in order that they can sit and learn all day!

53

 Jun 26, 2017 at 05:31 PM The_Truth Says:

Reply to #51  
Anonymous Says:

1. It is costly to live as a frum Jew, schooling, kashrus even clothing
2. The government encourages thief by taking away so much when they start to earn something.
3. The government gives things that people have become accustom even though
originally you would not have thought to buy
4. People on welfare are giving cell phones ridiculous
5, The standard of living today is too high. People have 3 cars, 1 for husband and wife and one for Sunday. In Eretz Yisrael people have a van and use it for both and their is only one car per family.
6, Nosh is out of hand. How much do people spend on Nosh. I know many peoplewho just about have enough money to buy bread but on Shabbos Kodesh need nosh so their kids will not fill as nebachs.
7 Take away. Whether taking prepared foods for during the week or for Shabbos
or going out to eat or buying even Pizza cost money. I am not rich but we make everything at home including fallel. I am on the road normal 4 days a week I take coffee from home. I have never been in Starbucks and it isn't because of kashrus.
8 clothss
Look at this list and it does not touch at not even the basic of why people can't stand the pressure and cave into thievery

It really is sad that people cave to thievery, but why is there pressure to keep up with a lifestyle that is unaffordable? On top of that, this is suppose to be Torahdika community and people - where is the yashrus and basic mitzvos being taught?

54

 Jun 26, 2017 at 05:27 PM diemaynstazdiebiztklieg Says:

Reply to #50  
boobi Says:

You are not fooling anybody with your kiddush hashem nonsense,you are only fooling yourself,those who learn and dont work or are thiefs as we see it here are truly against the toreh not for it the chillel hashem is beyond the pale you are using the toreh as a copout shame on you.

Alot of these comments are coming from self hating Jews forgetting that we have one ultimate purpose to be mekadesh shomayim and that does not necessarily mean that others than God or his chosen people recognize it. It may very well be that the gentiles or the non appreciative Jew does not recognize this. Well it is not only their loss and not the bnei Torah who are living an exalted life and holding up the entire world.

55

 Jun 26, 2017 at 05:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Wow, what a house! I live in a cramped small apartment and within my means!

56

 Jun 26, 2017 at 05:46 PM The_Truth Says:

Reply to #55  
Anonymous Says:

Wow, what a house! I live in a cramped small apartment and within my means!

Maybe you don't know Lakewood, but this is a small modest one compare to many. The peer pressure there to keep up with and out do the other is tremendous. Not that it is a reason for the fraud, but the an underlying cause of it.

57

 Jun 26, 2017 at 06:01 PM Educated Archy Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

Our parents and grandparents were able to LIVE on those factory jobs because they paid a living wage back then.

In addition to factory jobs providing a living wage, our parents and grandparents were able to retire to gov't subsidized senior citizen housing (often in beautiful places like Miami Beach and Atlantic City), they were able to live decently on Social Security and they were able to get good health care thanks to Medicare.

Our parents and grandparents were able to rely upon good public transportation when they could no longer drive and if they needed a nursing home, the community was able to provide decent care for our parents thanks to Medicare.

It is not likely that our generation will be able to fall back on any of these thing.

Living wage back then? Huh? You think so? My father in law claimed differently about his dad. It was not a living wage. They had less kids because they had no money for kids, no car, often lived on top of a store in a one bedroom house etc.. Living wage? totally not

SS is here to stay and is pretty stable. Its actually a paid in program.

Medicare? Does not cover more than 100 day stays in nursing homes. Do your research. Only those with "shtick" (similar to what these clowns were doing) who put their money in trusts and went on medicad are covered for nursing homes. Furthermore, the nursing home freenza was not around in the 60's. Its a fairly 40 yr old new business. And most hiemish seniors choose not to go to a nursing home and opt for a home health aide. Most of my grandparents did that.

Do some fact checking please

58

 Jun 26, 2017 at 05:50 PM Zahav Says:

I find it incredible, astounding, and pompous, that we have a group on this site, who have the gall to deny that anything illegal occurred; then, there are those who have stated that we should not condemn anyone until, all of the facts are in; then, there are groups, who seem to justify what they are allegedly charged with. Their argument goes "Nu, everyone does it, the cost of living is too high, they have large families, and they deserved help". Last, there are those, as evidenced in similar past cases, that even when all of the allegations have been substantiated in a criminal trial, and defendants have been found guilty, they still refuse to accept the verdict. They will allege that the prosecutors, jury, and judge were anti-semitic. It is about time that those in the frum community, wake up and realize that there are gnavim in our community, who engage in such crimes, as well as in worse crimes.

59

 Jun 26, 2017 at 02:24 PM roosting chickens Says:

When the survivors came here there were no social welfare programs. The social welfare system was created by LBJ. The programs have been responsible for the destruction of industry in America, the black family and many other social ills. Every where in the world where there is an entrenched social welfare state there are serious social problems. It has also bred and nurtured Islamic terrorism in Europe. If there would be no social welfare, the poor people in this country would not have sat by idly while their jobs were exported to China and Mexico. Without Social Welfare programs you would have no mass Kollel movement here or in Israel. It is possible you would not have a shidduch crisis either because young people would be forced to get serious about life and how to support themselves which would engender an entirely different mindset. Without the social safety net perhaps we as a society would not have tolerated the war on the family which has been perpetrated by the Left. Think about how once upon a time you only needed one wage earner to support a nice size family and one parent could work full time on running the household and taking care of small pre -K children.

60

 Jun 26, 2017 at 03:21 PM The_Truth Says:

Very sad that yet again, another frum community is in the limelight for monetary crimes. It is the stereotypical money-hungry image of a Jew. True or not. Legal or not. Loop hole or not. Fact is they were arrested for money & tax fraud.

IMHO, it is the lavish luxury lifestyle that is not only praised, but looked up to and given the elite status BY THE YESHIVAS, KOLLELIM & PEOPLE of these communities. Yes, the Jewish lifestyle is expensive, especially when having many kids, but who are the yeshivas encouraging young men to marry? Those with money! Who are the dinners & fundraisers honoring? Those with money. Who are the people with power & pull? Those with money.

Then you have the housing; where there isnt enough, but every second house built is bigger and has more luxuries than the first. There are no more basics that are acceptable any more. Everything must come with upgrades. More & better than before. Don't get me wrong, all this is very nice - IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT, but no one can if they don't have a job.

1 of 2

61

 Jun 26, 2017 at 04:11 PM yonasonw Says:

Come on, stop the BS.

This is a lifestyle for too many, Yidden who twiddle their thumbs and "poskin" it's "not really" genieva to take from "the Goyim" for a "Torahdikke" cause. I have lived amongst such people and such sentiments for over 30 years...and most of these people are anti-liberal, anti- "schvartze" welfare cheat, conservative Republicans.

And look at the posts here - too many are embarrassing and shameful...we have become a nation that excuses all sorts of misconduct as long as the doer is "one of us" - All is excused for Yidden. And many of you're are messed up enough to think the Torah permits this sort of outrage.

Feh.

62

 Jun 26, 2017 at 06:07 PM Barzilai Says:

Reply to #12  
FBF37 Says:

No one is anti-semite. Unfortunately many of us who view this site live in this kid of community. There is a perception that this kind of stuff continues to go on. Is the perception true? I think so but I could be wrong. But every time a news story like this comes out it does seem to be true.

It's a huge chillul hashem. Personally I do not blame these people. They are a Korbon for the Klal. I blame the system (aka Rabbonim) who banged into many peoples heads that kollel is good, work and learning a trade is bad. At the same time you need to pay tuition,mortgage etc... Now true many in Lakewood do work but it's not enough. Even those with good jobs and a college degree sometimes is not enough. We need a better system.

We cannot continue to support so many Kollelim. We need the money to be pooled and go to elementary, high school's etc... Yes there should be Kolles but not for every single person. Only our best and brightest should go to Kollels. so they become Talmedie Chachoim, Rabbeim and Rabbonim. I have said in the past. The people who get hurt the most that many people are in Kollel's are the people who actually belong in Kollel!! We should be supporting our best!!

I know such things go on all the time, and, in some areas, it's endemic. But we don't know that these individuals are guilty. And self hating Jews are no less antisemitic for being Jewish themselves.

63

 Jun 26, 2017 at 06:14 PM The_Truth Says:

Authorities were able to determine that the families allegedly misrepresented their incomes partly by tracking illegal money transfers made at a Lakewood beeper store, according to the source. The owner of Beepers Plus on Clifton Avenue pleaded guilty on Feb. 23 to transmitting millions of dollars without a license, an indictable offense in New Jersey. By looking at some of those transfers, along with private school tuition records and withdrawals from a state fund that pays medical fees for sick children whose parents can’t afford their care, investigators uncovered the alleged fraud, the source said. The investigation into the alleged public-assistance fraud began around three years ago and now comprises a variety of federal and state law enforcement agencies. The FBI, the Social Security Administration, the New Jersey Treasury Department, the state comptroller’s Medicaid Fraud Division and the Ocean County Prosecutor’s Office all have been investigating.

64

 Jun 26, 2017 at 06:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #45  
Anonymous Says:

Your comments do not fit in with reality.
First of all, statistics show that college graduates earn higher salaries than high school grads. Most decent-paying jobs now require a college degree. Even many sales jobs now require degrees.
Second, though attending college at 18 may be too early for some, it's ridiculous to hold off till after marriage, when there are too many distractions. Before long, there are babies and small children demanding your time and attention, making it harder to study.
Third, no respectable degree program takes only 18-24 months to complete. Sure there are colleges that are willing to take your money and churn out a degree, but most employers are aware of the shortcomings of these degree programs and won't hire a graduate of these schools.
If someone wants to take a year or two off to learn before college, and can afford to do so, fine. But expect to put in 4 years to earn a degree worth anything.

1) College grads earn higher salaries but I am not so sure that's true in our community. Salesmen in our community like those that work in insurance or amazon selling or real estate (some do very well) do not require traditional 4 yr degrees. They require licensing and some exams. Even nursing home administrators don't require degrees. Some after licensed can earn 60k annually. That's a very nice salary.

I am not knocking college I am a college grad too. But college is not for everyone. In the frum community I am not convinced that its the only answer.

2)With 1 baby there aren't so many distractions. To the contrary you are more mature, studious and determined when you know that you are in college because this is what will help you bring a parnasa. You know what it means to have an achryous to bring a parnasa. My fellow 18 yr old classmates were far more immature and less determined than us "older" guys.

3) There are plenty of respectable programs that can be completed in 24 months. Do your research. PCS Accounting courses take 18-24 months and many graduates work in the big 4. Nurses are a two year program. I as an actuary went to school for 2 years. Even law is less than 3

65

 Jun 26, 2017 at 06:25 PM The_Truth Says:

Reply to #47  
Anonymous Says:

These people were making money and not kollel men if they were making over $300,000. One thing is I notice how did somebody cheat the system out of $585,000 in a year. Even with claiming 15 children you don't get that amound

This wasn't in 1 year, this was between 2011 & 2014. What went on before & after has not even been looked into / proven / prosecuted for.
According to the court papers, effectively their gross income was about $1.5M per year during that time.

66

 Jun 26, 2017 at 06:31 PM yonasonw Says:

59 Comments as of 6:28 - so much energy spent trying to explain or even to justify felonious, immoral behavior. This story, together with much of what is written here, is Exhibit A in a sad tale.

67

 Jun 26, 2017 at 09:33 PM Esther Says:

Reply to #59  
roosting chickens Says:

When the survivors came here there were no social welfare programs. The social welfare system was created by LBJ. The programs have been responsible for the destruction of industry in America, the black family and many other social ills. Every where in the world where there is an entrenched social welfare state there are serious social problems. It has also bred and nurtured Islamic terrorism in Europe. If there would be no social welfare, the poor people in this country would not have sat by idly while their jobs were exported to China and Mexico. Without Social Welfare programs you would have no mass Kollel movement here or in Israel. It is possible you would not have a shidduch crisis either because young people would be forced to get serious about life and how to support themselves which would engender an entirely different mindset. Without the social safety net perhaps we as a society would not have tolerated the war on the family which has been perpetrated by the Left. Think about how once upon a time you only needed one wage earner to support a nice size family and one parent could work full time on running the household and taking care of small pre -K children.

You stated the obvious so clearly and it's depressing.

68

 Jun 26, 2017 at 09:34 PM diemaynstazdiebiztklieg Says:

It's amazing how this site attracts people that have constructive lives enlightened people who don't have children irresponsibly. I guess that explains why you have so.much time to criticize God's troops. A bunch of am haaratzim hasoneim, talmidei chachomim the way our sages say that ignorant am haaratzim hate talmidei chachomim like a snake, because they are jealous with their fruitless life of holy people who are devoting their life to serve their creator! It is a pity on these posters who are posting venum on this site. Shame on you if you want to know these comments are a true disgrace and chilul hashem! The only limud zechus is that you never tasted the true sweetness of serving hashem. By the way I myself am a base habayis not a yeshiva man ( I have a very good paying job in corporate America without a college degree (yes you heard right my W-2 last year was 200k plus!) but am a proud father of bnei yeshiva!

69

 Jun 26, 2017 at 10:16 PM triumphinwhitehouse Says:

Lock them all. the. Best comment here want mine it was number 60 the truth.

70

 Jun 27, 2017 at 07:15 AM Enough Already Says:

First off, I do not know whether those arrested are innocent or guilty, that determination will be made by the legal system.
Stories such as this are a Jew haters dream come true. Sadly, often when there is smoke, there is fire. I hope this not to be true since it will only fuels the ever burning fires of antisemitism that hurts us all.
Too many times we fall back on the cries of antisemitism as a false defense to cover misdeeds. That tactic is getting tired and stale.
If the allegations do prove true, shame on them and shame on those who blindly accept such behavior as acceptable.
Only time will tell.

71

 Jun 27, 2017 at 11:02 AM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #68  
diemaynstazdiebiztklieg Says:

It's amazing how this site attracts people that have constructive lives enlightened people who don't have children irresponsibly. I guess that explains why you have so.much time to criticize God's troops. A bunch of am haaratzim hasoneim, talmidei chachomim the way our sages say that ignorant am haaratzim hate talmidei chachomim like a snake, because they are jealous with their fruitless life of holy people who are devoting their life to serve their creator! It is a pity on these posters who are posting venum on this site. Shame on you if you want to know these comments are a true disgrace and chilul hashem! The only limud zechus is that you never tasted the true sweetness of serving hashem. By the way I myself am a base habayis not a yeshiva man ( I have a very good paying job in corporate America without a college degree (yes you heard right my W-2 last year was 200k plus!) but am a proud father of bnei yeshiva!

Oh, I get it. Fraud is ok, or not fraud mamesh, if committed by those who outwardly appear to be "...holy people who are devoting their life to serve their creator...?"

72

 Jun 27, 2017 at 12:07 PM Edcuated Archy Says:

Reply to #71  
yonasonw Says:

Oh, I get it. Fraud is ok, or not fraud mamesh, if committed by those who outwardly appear to be "...holy people who are devoting their life to serve their creator...?"

Whats your problem? These are your programs that you so vehemently advocate for all the time? So now do tell me who great these programs really are?

73

 Jun 27, 2017 at 02:38 PM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #72  
Edcuated Archy Says:

Whats your problem? These are your programs that you so vehemently advocate for all the time? So now do tell me who great these programs really are?

Programs for eligible low-and moderate income beneficiaries. But you know that, so stop trying so hard to sound stupid.

Incarceration is the program for those who are found to have committed significant felony fraud...and I'm for that too. I mean, if they're afraid to pay...it's a game they shouldn't play.

74

 Jun 27, 2017 at 05:01 PM Educated Archy Says:

Reply to #73  
yonasonw Says:

Programs for eligible low-and moderate income beneficiaries. But you know that, so stop trying so hard to sound stupid.

Incarceration is the program for those who are found to have committed significant felony fraud...and I'm for that too. I mean, if they're afraid to pay...it's a game they shouldn't play.

Yes but this precisely the point I have been trying to make. Government programs are designed in such a way that the "smart" people game the system. The overwhelming majorty are smart legally. Yes they really are "low income earners". But they are purposely "low income" earners so that they can still gain programs. After all if I can net 60k annually like these guys from working at a low paying/ low pressure job, why would I want to work hard? You would have to be nuts. If I work hard I bring in less dollars after everything is said and done. So why not take it easier and remain poor? Its this mentality that encourages people to stay on and not move up the ladder. And its that same mentality that fosters fraud because there is such money lost if I earn a drop over the income, that I kind of get stuck relying on programs and will fraud and lie to stay on.

Part 1

75

 Jun 27, 2017 at 05:05 PM Educated Archy Says:

Reply to #73  
yonasonw Says:

Programs for eligible low-and moderate income beneficiaries. But you know that, so stop trying so hard to sound stupid.

Incarceration is the program for those who are found to have committed significant felony fraud...and I'm for that too. I mean, if they're afraid to pay...it's a game they shouldn't play.

In a nutshell society's reliance on government assistance is the ultimate downfall of both income inequality and fraud. And its a shame because those that truely need it, don't get the help. The "uneducated" red neck white Trump voter whose mom is on drugs can't keep cheshbon of all the requirements and they go hungry. They are not tichtig enough to get their bank statements and income statements in order. (Many of these programs require lots of work to ensure eligibility. Its tedious too) So they loose and get nothing. Its the Lakewooders and tichtig mexicans who get all the programs (yes the mexicans know the melacha and have bilingual immigration advocates. Trump hick white trash voters have noone to care for them.)

Its a very sad and broken system.

76

 Jun 27, 2017 at 06:57 PM The_Truth Says:

Reply to #75  
Educated Archy Says:

In a nutshell society's reliance on government assistance is the ultimate downfall of both income inequality and fraud. And its a shame because those that truely need it, don't get the help. The "uneducated" red neck white Trump voter whose mom is on drugs can't keep cheshbon of all the requirements and they go hungry. They are not tichtig enough to get their bank statements and income statements in order. (Many of these programs require lots of work to ensure eligibility. Its tedious too) So they loose and get nothing. Its the Lakewooders and tichtig mexicans who get all the programs (yes the mexicans know the melacha and have bilingual immigration advocates. Trump hick white trash voters have noone to care for them.)

Its a very sad and broken system.

However sad and broken the system is, and how easy it is to be taken advantage of, true Torah Yidden know that it is stealing, theft, Geneiva...

Bottom line, it is wrong. And especially Torah True Yidden should know better.

77

 Jun 27, 2017 at 07:17 PM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #75  
Educated Archy Says:

In a nutshell society's reliance on government assistance is the ultimate downfall of both income inequality and fraud. And its a shame because those that truely need it, don't get the help. The "uneducated" red neck white Trump voter whose mom is on drugs can't keep cheshbon of all the requirements and they go hungry. They are not tichtig enough to get their bank statements and income statements in order. (Many of these programs require lots of work to ensure eligibility. Its tedious too) So they loose and get nothing. Its the Lakewooders and tichtig mexicans who get all the programs (yes the mexicans know the melacha and have bilingual immigration advocates. Trump hick white trash voters have noone to care for them.)

Its a very sad and broken system.

I can't explain further, but I have been involved in serious investigations of entitlement programs. They by in large fulfill their missions with relatively little abuse.

That said, one cannot devise a program that is immune to sophisticated and willful fraud...especially if committed within a culture that tolerates or supports it.

It's not gaming a system...it's criminal fraud, a fraud we ridicule and put down if others do it.

In 1999 I personally was approached by a "choshev" person and asked if I could steer a certain program to yungeleit...I threatened to turn him in to my superiors, but didn't.

We need to be honest, and admit that criminal fraud in entitlement programs is a serious problem in Lakewood and some other places.

I am afraid that over the next days and weeks we are going to see several more arrests...all probably well deserved.

78

 Jun 27, 2017 at 10:07 PM Educated Archy Says:

Reply to #77  
yonasonw Says:

I can't explain further, but I have been involved in serious investigations of entitlement programs. They by in large fulfill their missions with relatively little abuse.

That said, one cannot devise a program that is immune to sophisticated and willful fraud...especially if committed within a culture that tolerates or supports it.

It's not gaming a system...it's criminal fraud, a fraud we ridicule and put down if others do it.

In 1999 I personally was approached by a "choshev" person and asked if I could steer a certain program to yungeleit...I threatened to turn him in to my superiors, but didn't.

We need to be honest, and admit that criminal fraud in entitlement programs is a serious problem in Lakewood and some other places.

I am afraid that over the next days and weeks we are going to see several more arrests...all probably well deserved.

There is fraud and there is gaming the system. The overwhelming majorty of Lakewooder's are not committing fruad at all. They are just gaming the system. Thats very different. Its not illegal to choose an easy going job and not strive to earn more because I know that via the easy going job I can remain on programs. thats total legit and not fraud at all. But its a game. And thats where the system is rotten. Too many people game the system. And in my opnion that game entices people too fraud the system too. But its the game thats rotten. the system enables too many people to "legally" choose not to work. While at the same times those who truely can't "choose" not to work because they are really troubled individuals are not taigliach enough to get programs so they starve. In my opinion it does more bad than good and exasperates income inequality.

79

 Jun 28, 2017 at 03:25 AM Greener Says:

Reply to #23  
Maven Says:

IF they are convicted what a Chilul Hashem. And that is IF.

Unbelievable to watch the nasty comments thrown at Frum Jews.But,that's life.

However,these same Orthodox Jew haters get offended when we say things against Zionism and the Torah forbidden state of Israel screaming: Loshan Hora" "Loshan Hora".

Hey Maven, I live in TFSI - and I don't steal from the "government" - does this make me a crum Z***ist. And I have a question: If I continue to live in TFSI, but do steal from the "government" will you accept me back as an Unzerer?

80

 Jun 28, 2017 at 06:15 AM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #78  
Educated Archy Says:

There is fraud and there is gaming the system. The overwhelming majorty of Lakewooder's are not committing fruad at all. They are just gaming the system. Thats very different. Its not illegal to choose an easy going job and not strive to earn more because I know that via the easy going job I can remain on programs. thats total legit and not fraud at all. But its a game. And thats where the system is rotten. Too many people game the system. And in my opnion that game entices people too fraud the system too. But its the game thats rotten. the system enables too many people to "legally" choose not to work. While at the same times those who truely can't "choose" not to work because they are really troubled individuals are not taigliach enough to get programs so they starve. In my opinion it does more bad than good and exasperates income inequality.

Don't underestimate this. This is going to unfold as a huge deal.

There were six more arrests Tuesday night, and there will be more today and Friday. Meanwhile, according to law enforcement officials, hundreds of Lakewood residents are calling township leaders asking how they can avoid arrest or get amnesty related to the public-assistance fraud...ifruitless attempts to remove themselves from possible prosecution.

This is large scale criminal fraud, exacerbated by a Shas quoting (misquoting) community in which many darshen that it's not really so bad to rip off the "anti-Semitic goyishe" government.

81

 Jun 29, 2017 at 05:00 PM OutOfTownfrumJew Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

Here we go again! Unfortunately the FBI doesn't give out medals for the ehrliche yidden but they exist so let's focus on the good people in the community who wake up every morning to do the right thing!

Clearly you think the FBI are Tzadikim Do you want them to be your judge in the next world? Think for a second, I was on Medicaid in Lakewood years ago If anyone was making 1.8million in their lifetime they would not hassle with the programs...Come on People Are we anti Semetic Self hating Jews... If you feel the way most of you are saying you feel then move out of town. See how the goyim will treat you. You will be denied Jobs Due to being Jewish So you will either embrace your Judaism and other jews!! Get over your jealousy for things you think others have!! I personally know Zalmy He is a great person, I do not believe he earned over a million dollars.

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