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New Jersey - Law Enforcement Continue Lakewood Medicaid/Government Assistance Fraud Arrests

Published on: June 28, 2017 08:48 AM
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FBI conducting raids  in connection with a public-assistance fraud scheme in Lakewood, N.J.(The Asbury Park Press via AP)FBI conducting raids in connection with a public-assistance fraud scheme in Lakewood, N.J.(The Asbury Park Press via AP)

Lakewood, NJ - Ocean County Prosecutor Joseph D. Coronato and State Comptroller Philip James Degnan announced today additional ongoing arrests within Lakewood, New Jersey by the Ocean County Prosecutor’s Office for defrauding Medicaid and government assistance programs. 

The investigations initiated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s Red Bank Office and the New Jersey Office of the State Comptroller – Medicaid Fraud Division, were expanded to include the US Social Security Administration, New Jersey Department of the Treasury – Office of Criminal Investigation, and the Ocean County Prosecutor’s Office – Economic Crimes Unit. 

The arrests made just before midnight (6/27), include charges of individuals collecting illegal benefits in the six-figure range.

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OCPO detectives/prosecutors, along with its collaborating agencies, continued Monday’s operation by arresting the following three married couples. 

Hearings are scheduled for 1:30 pm today (6/28) at Ocean County Superior Court.

Yitzchock, 33, and Sora, 39, Kanarek of Brisk Lane – charged with 2nd Degree Theft by Deception for wrongfully collecting approximately $339,002.56 in Medicaid, SNAP, HUD, and SSI benefits between January 2009 and July 2014.

Chaim, 40, and Liatt, 39, Ehrman of Twin Oaks Drive – charged with 2nd Degree Theft by Deception for wrongfully collecting approximately $185,692.22 in Medicaid, SNAP, HEAP, and Sandy benefits between January 2011 and December 2015

William, 45, and Faigy, 40, Friedman of Leigh Drive – charged with 2nd Degree Theft by Deception for wrongfully collecting approximately $149,842.28 in Medicaid, SNAP, HEAP, and HUDbenefits between January 2011 and December 2015.

The nature of the criminal events investigated and basic charges allege that the defendants misrepresented their income, declaring amounts that were low enough to receive the program’s benefits, when in fact their income was too high to qualify. 

The investigations revealed that the defendants’ received income from numerous sources that they failed to disclose on required program applications.  As a result, they received benefits that they were not entitled to under these programs for themselves or family members.

The Ocean County Prosecutor’s Office is prosecuting the above arrested individuals at the state level.

The investigation by all the participating agencies is continuing and additional arrests are forthcoming. 

OCPO and our prosecuting partners may add additional relevant charges (ie. Tax charges) as each case proceeds through the legal process.

The media and the public are reminded that criminal charges are only allegations and that each defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty in court.



More of today's headlines

Seoul - North Korea said on Wednesday it has issued a standing order for the execution of former South Korean President Park Geun-hye and her spy chief for a plot to... New York - Former vice presidential nominee and Alaska governor Sarah Palin is accusing The New York Times of defamation over an editorial that linked one of her...

 

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Read Comments (89)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Jun 28, 2017 at 09:14 AM Anonymous Says:

Nu nu

2

 Jun 28, 2017 at 09:10 AM Anonymous Says:

This is never gonna happen in BP or Willi. Those places have too much political power and NYC politicians are more easily corrupted than in NJ.

3

 Jun 28, 2017 at 09:37 AM radrad Says:

For some strange reason these idiots think they can steal from the gov't without recourse. What a CHILUL HASHEM, especially when they pose as such pious ppl

4

 Jun 28, 2017 at 09:43 AM TruthIsIt Says:

Too much....What a news to start people speaking Loshen hara....

5

 Jun 28, 2017 at 09:49 AM sane Says:

The lesson in all this, which appears to be lost on most, is to value living within your means and living humbly. That is the ideal.

6

 Jun 28, 2017 at 09:36 AM yonasonw Says:

1 of 2

Contributing to a group psychology which helps enable a massive fraud like this, I suggest, is an exaggerated and hostile disassociation from the larger American society, due to the following factors:

1. The often asserted mantra that "...we're not really Americans; we're just visiting here" - denigrating even nice simplicities as Mothers Day, dafka refusing to acknowledge Memorial Day and other significant secular national days;

2. An educational system that at the elementary level teaches no civics, at higher levels fails to teach anything about our system of government, or anything positive about anyone outside the Klal, and which excoriates the value of just about all secular education;

3. Rabbinical leaders educated in that system who, even at the highest levels, possess crude misunderstandings of our legal and political system;

4. A triumphal belief in our inherent superiority, which denigrates and dismisses the humanity of all others...and makes stealing from "them" "permissible;"

7

 Jun 28, 2017 at 09:58 AM yonasonw Says:

2 of 2

5. A stupefying refusal to understand that the values of secular society in which we live are the very reasons we have thrived here, fully enabled to practice our religion while participating in professional life;

6. An exaggerated "piety" (shared with those on the Christian right) that clothes discrimination in a veneer of false religiosity - freedom of religion morphs into a freedom to discriminate against those one's religion defines as evil, even in the public market place. (Some Christians believe that Jews are evil...responsible for the murder of their "savior;" by this twisted logic, they should be allowed the "right" to not serve Jews);

7. A deeply held belief that the entire goyishe world is nothing but "schmutz," not deserving of any respect;

8. A refusal of religious and community leadership to admit error or to acknowledge limitations on their "wisdom," with respect even to issues about which they are completely ignorant. "Reb Moshe had the black box," I was recently told that allowed him to speak to how law enforcement interviews child abuse victims. That's my lane...and the velt's positions on the issue are complete rubbish

8

 Jun 28, 2017 at 10:07 AM scy4851 Says:

a Chilul Hashem...Par Excellence!

9

 Jun 28, 2017 at 10:43 AM IWRKNLKWD Says:

Reply to #6  
yonasonw Says:

1 of 2

Contributing to a group psychology which helps enable a massive fraud like this, I suggest, is an exaggerated and hostile disassociation from the larger American society, due to the following factors:

1. The often asserted mantra that "...we're not really Americans; we're just visiting here" - denigrating even nice simplicities as Mothers Day, dafka refusing to acknowledge Memorial Day and other significant secular national days;

2. An educational system that at the elementary level teaches no civics, at higher levels fails to teach anything about our system of government, or anything positive about anyone outside the Klal, and which excoriates the value of just about all secular education;

3. Rabbinical leaders educated in that system who, even at the highest levels, possess crude misunderstandings of our legal and political system;

4. A triumphal belief in our inherent superiority, which denigrates and dismisses the humanity of all others...and makes stealing from "them" "permissible;"

I work in this town, didn't get onto the programs, and struggle to pay for my rent, health insurance, and food. i live each month paycheck to paycheck, and report all my income because i was taught this when i was growing up (in an out of town city), once lie leads to another until its just to big to back out of. i am sure when they first started the programs they felt it was very small, and that why the rabbanim they asked (if they did ask) said its okay, but i doubt any rav would tell them with their current income its okay,

10

 Jun 28, 2017 at 10:40 AM AyinRoeh Says:

The oilam is reminded to re-read the last paragraph in the news story.

11

 Jun 28, 2017 at 10:53 AM IWRKNLKWD Says:

I think what we are missing out on is the fact that these funds are meant for the poor class that cant afford basics. when we take from these funds, and we dont actually need the money - its a worse act, not stealing from rich and giving to poor, on the contrary its the opposite! and thatis why its looked at with such disdain and disgust

12

 Jun 28, 2017 at 11:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
yonasonw Says:

1 of 2

Contributing to a group psychology which helps enable a massive fraud like this, I suggest, is an exaggerated and hostile disassociation from the larger American society, due to the following factors:

1. The often asserted mantra that "...we're not really Americans; we're just visiting here" - denigrating even nice simplicities as Mothers Day, dafka refusing to acknowledge Memorial Day and other significant secular national days;

2. An educational system that at the elementary level teaches no civics, at higher levels fails to teach anything about our system of government, or anything positive about anyone outside the Klal, and which excoriates the value of just about all secular education;

3. Rabbinical leaders educated in that system who, even at the highest levels, possess crude misunderstandings of our legal and political system;

4. A triumphal belief in our inherent superiority, which denigrates and dismisses the humanity of all others...and makes stealing from "them" "permissible;"

Basically, a very good exposition of the what you call "disassociation" issue, but shows signs of sloppiness attributable to being written too quickly. It would be worthwhile to re-submit in the future after edits.

Also, I would contend that this incident isn't a consequence of the "disassociation" issue, but rather of what I refer to as "industrial smicha" or "assembly-line smicha". My understanding is that beginning with the Korean War, American Rabbonim began issuing semicha at reduced standards or for the wrong reasons, and we are now three generations into the consequences of lowered standards of religious leadership. This leadership has fostered an atmosphere that among much else has trained our people not to live in absolute terror of money tainted with a hint of sin. I'm old enough to have had a father a"h raised in a frum community in pre-WW2 Poland, and if he was any indication of how we used to be raised, the difference is stark.

13

 Jun 28, 2017 at 11:41 AM Educated Archy Says:

Reply to #7  
yonasonw Says:

2 of 2

5. A stupefying refusal to understand that the values of secular society in which we live are the very reasons we have thrived here, fully enabled to practice our religion while participating in professional life;

6. An exaggerated "piety" (shared with those on the Christian right) that clothes discrimination in a veneer of false religiosity - freedom of religion morphs into a freedom to discriminate against those one's religion defines as evil, even in the public market place. (Some Christians believe that Jews are evil...responsible for the murder of their "savior;" by this twisted logic, they should be allowed the "right" to not serve Jews);

7. A deeply held belief that the entire goyishe world is nothing but "schmutz," not deserving of any respect;

8. A refusal of religious and community leadership to admit error or to acknowledge limitations on their "wisdom," with respect even to issues about which they are completely ignorant. "Reb Moshe had the black box," I was recently told that allowed him to speak to how law enforcement interviews child abuse victims. That's my lane...and the velt's positions on the issue are complete rubbish

I almost agreed with you till pointer #6. I don't know where yo cooked that one up. Who are we discriminating against those who we define as evil? And I think your notion of the christain right is backwards 20th century thinking. Yes there are still a few nutty Christains who are anti jews. But most of the right as the evangelicals are actually very pro jews. You still suffer from naziphobia my dear.

To the main point, I don't see how frum jews discriminate against those they define as "evil". There is one very rational group to discriminate against. That's muslims. Because Islam wants us frum yidden dead. Unfortunate this is not jsut a belief that us jews are taught. Almost all of us eyewitnesses this first hand. I have been spat at by Muslims while walking the streets of Israel and minding my won business. I have seen first hand terror attacks and I have friends who lost family members in terror attacks including 9/11. This is not about religion buddy. Its a real rational hatred. Muslims have blood dripping out of their eyes. Its so obvious that they hate us. Stop living in a cave. If you did not mean Muslims but rather Latinos most of us respect and spoil our cleaning ladies.

14

 Jun 28, 2017 at 11:51 AM Educated Archy Says:

Reply to #7  
yonasonw Says:

2 of 2

5. A stupefying refusal to understand that the values of secular society in which we live are the very reasons we have thrived here, fully enabled to practice our religion while participating in professional life;

6. An exaggerated "piety" (shared with those on the Christian right) that clothes discrimination in a veneer of false religiosity - freedom of religion morphs into a freedom to discriminate against those one's religion defines as evil, even in the public market place. (Some Christians believe that Jews are evil...responsible for the murder of their "savior;" by this twisted logic, they should be allowed the "right" to not serve Jews);

7. A deeply held belief that the entire goyishe world is nothing but "schmutz," not deserving of any respect;

8. A refusal of religious and community leadership to admit error or to acknowledge limitations on their "wisdom," with respect even to issues about which they are completely ignorant. "Reb Moshe had the black box," I was recently told that allowed him to speak to how law enforcement interviews child abuse victims. That's my lane...and the velt's positions on the issue are complete rubbish

I"ll add #9 .

9. The system in the USA encourages and entices these behaviors. It encourges people to become reliant on programs. Govt programs are so rich in nature and so expansive with no duration limits. Once I am on HUD, I am on Hud for life. Generally this just expands income inequality. People (whether frum jews or goyim on programs) have no drive or reason to obtain higher paying jobs. Why work hard and bring home less is the logic. Thus, its easier and worth it to remain poor and reliant on programs. So, overwhelmingly, we are legally gaming the system by simply remaining poor even though we have the now how to earn more money..

However, this over reliance on programs, tends to also entice a few not most to fraud. People see a great business opportunity and are stuck with losing 60K annually if they report it. So they are enticed to lie.

What's the solution? Cap all government benefits to a fixed amount of time unless you are disabled. After that you are on your own. (perhaps you can reapply after 12 or 24 months).

This is not an excuse to cheat but I am describing the yetzer hara that exists. We have a broken government and we need to make america great again

15

 Jun 28, 2017 at 11:57 AM Anon10 Says:

It's amazing how all of you holier then thou self hating Jews are sooo worried about the chillul Hashem!! Every one of you have your own skeletons so keep the gestapo style hate to yourselves. Oh and the same government you are so worried about that they allegedly stole from also says innocent until proven guilty

16

 Jun 28, 2017 at 11:59 AM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #9  
IWRKNLKWD Says:

I work in this town, didn't get onto the programs, and struggle to pay for my rent, health insurance, and food. i live each month paycheck to paycheck, and report all my income because i was taught this when i was growing up (in an out of town city), once lie leads to another until its just to big to back out of. i am sure when they first started the programs they felt it was very small, and that why the rabbanim they asked (if they did ask) said its okay, but i doubt any rav would tell them with their current income its okay,

If part of your premise is that most people in Lakewood are not guilty of participating in such fraud, I agree. But enough do that it really is a systemic problem.

1 of 2

I have been close to the Lakewood community for over 30 years, since long before it stopped being essentially a one-horse BMG town...many of my closest friends live there, as do many, many of the now adult children of close friends. Over the years I a number of interactions which evidence the problem:

Being approached as a government attorney to assist securing Section 8 vouchers for ineligible yungeleit; having individuals openly explain to me what income they were hiding from the government, and asking if what they did report sounded credible; businesses with two sets of books documenting employee work hours.

One can empathize with the economic stresses in which people find themselves. But that only goes so far...the old joke that has Lakewood rejecting the Torah because it says for six days you shall work doesn't come from nothing. They should work, and get the education to enable them to so...(continued)

17

 Jun 28, 2017 at 12:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

This is never gonna happen in BP or Willi. Those places have too much political power and NYC politicians are more easily corrupted than in NJ.

You live on the river called DENILE!

18

 Jun 28, 2017 at 12:01 PM show me an old car Says:

I am sure there are exceptions but, in all the "frum' neighborhoods there is never a car older than 36 months. Is leasing new really cheaper than owning a car between 3 and 10 years old?.
Cars can easily last and be maintained at low cost to last up to 10 years but it is less impressive to the neighbors.
I grew up in a yeshiva world and I remember the rebeim cars were all old,
I apologize in advance to those with older cars (like mine) and those that really have no car for finacial reasons.

19

 Jun 28, 2017 at 12:02 PM Maven Says:

Although i dont agree with posting news like these. It brings out the worse in people as we can all see from the nasty comments. Still the Chilul Hashem is huge.

Having said, lets not all fall into the trap saying: see its because a lack of secular education and "we" think that laws are not meant for frum Jews".
THE biggest crooks and thieves are by THE most intellectual educated Harvard grads. Wall street crooks,bankers,car mfg etc etc are being constantly fined in the billions for ripping off people.

20

 Jun 28, 2017 at 12:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

This is never gonna happen in BP or Willi. Those places have too much political power and NYC politicians are more easily corrupted than in NJ.

Never say never boychickle.

21

 Jun 28, 2017 at 12:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
yonasonw Says:

1 of 2

Contributing to a group psychology which helps enable a massive fraud like this, I suggest, is an exaggerated and hostile disassociation from the larger American society, due to the following factors:

1. The often asserted mantra that "...we're not really Americans; we're just visiting here" - denigrating even nice simplicities as Mothers Day, dafka refusing to acknowledge Memorial Day and other significant secular national days;

2. An educational system that at the elementary level teaches no civics, at higher levels fails to teach anything about our system of government, or anything positive about anyone outside the Klal, and which excoriates the value of just about all secular education;

3. Rabbinical leaders educated in that system who, even at the highest levels, possess crude misunderstandings of our legal and political system;

4. A triumphal belief in our inherent superiority, which denigrates and dismisses the humanity of all others...and makes stealing from "them" "permissible;"

Sir, I salute your wise comments.

22

 Jun 28, 2017 at 12:08 PM IWRKNLKWD Says:

Reply to #12  
Anonymous Says:

Basically, a very good exposition of the what you call "disassociation" issue, but shows signs of sloppiness attributable to being written too quickly. It would be worthwhile to re-submit in the future after edits.

Also, I would contend that this incident isn't a consequence of the "disassociation" issue, but rather of what I refer to as "industrial smicha" or "assembly-line smicha". My understanding is that beginning with the Korean War, American Rabbonim began issuing semicha at reduced standards or for the wrong reasons, and we are now three generations into the consequences of lowered standards of religious leadership. This leadership has fostered an atmosphere that among much else has trained our people not to live in absolute terror of money tainted with a hint of sin. I'm old enough to have had a father a"h raised in a frum community in pre-WW2 Poland, and if he was any indication of how we used to be raised, the difference is stark.

i am not familiar with this Smicha at reduced standards, Can you enlighten me?

23

 Jun 28, 2017 at 12:11 PM Maven Says:

A while back when some Shomrim member's got into trouble beating up an African American guy there was an individual who doesn't deserve his name to be mentioned who wrote a very nasty article in the Daily news or the Post how racist and nasty frum Jews are.How illiterate we are and therefore they beat up a Goy.

This individual was dancing on this frum shomrim guys blood. He couldn't get enough of this story. I bet this person will write some nasty disgusting articles about this fraud case.

24

 Jun 28, 2017 at 12:34 PM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #12  
Anonymous Says:

Basically, a very good exposition of the what you call "disassociation" issue, but shows signs of sloppiness attributable to being written too quickly. It would be worthwhile to re-submit in the future after edits.

Also, I would contend that this incident isn't a consequence of the "disassociation" issue, but rather of what I refer to as "industrial smicha" or "assembly-line smicha". My understanding is that beginning with the Korean War, American Rabbonim began issuing semicha at reduced standards or for the wrong reasons, and we are now three generations into the consequences of lowered standards of religious leadership. This leadership has fostered an atmosphere that among much else has trained our people not to live in absolute terror of money tainted with a hint of sin. I'm old enough to have had a father a"h raised in a frum community in pre-WW2 Poland, and if he was any indication of how we used to be raised, the difference is stark.

"Basically, a very good exposition of the what you call "disassociation" issue, but shows signs of sloppiness attributable to being written too quickly. It would be worthwhile to re-submit in the future after edits."

Noted with appreciation.

That said, I write, edit and proof legal and regulatory documents professionally...all but two weeks a year (Chol Hamoed Pesach and Succos)...I do relax more here.

25

 Jun 28, 2017 at 12:39 PM Anonymous Says:

It's so sad that at least several of these families had special needs children that was obviously a contributory factor to doing the indefensible things they did, and also the large amounts of Medicaid and ssi dollars that they were charged with unlawfully claiming. Not every one of them appears to have been in dire financial straits but at least one of the families that I know of and probably more has been in dire straights financially due do their special needs child. Does not excuse their behavior, just feel sad that they were put into this terrible situation and succumbed morally. I give my blessing to all of the above posters that none of you should unexpectedly have a Down syndrome or handicapped child as at least 3 of these families had and be faced with the huge family pressures and financial burden and the temptation to succumb to the circumstances and do the wrong thing as some if these families did.....

26

 Jun 28, 2017 at 01:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #12  
Anonymous Says:

Basically, a very good exposition of the what you call "disassociation" issue, but shows signs of sloppiness attributable to being written too quickly. It would be worthwhile to re-submit in the future after edits.

Also, I would contend that this incident isn't a consequence of the "disassociation" issue, but rather of what I refer to as "industrial smicha" or "assembly-line smicha". My understanding is that beginning with the Korean War, American Rabbonim began issuing semicha at reduced standards or for the wrong reasons, and we are now three generations into the consequences of lowered standards of religious leadership. This leadership has fostered an atmosphere that among much else has trained our people not to live in absolute terror of money tainted with a hint of sin. I'm old enough to have had a father a"h raised in a frum community in pre-WW2 Poland, and if he was any indication of how we used to be raised, the difference is stark.

Huh? Most rosh Yeshivas and many leaders today don't even have smeicha. Yes during the korean war smeicha was given to avid the draft. And rabbis used to be chosen based on smechia. But thats no longer the case. You could argue that we should go back to the old smeicha days where at least you had to be certified. But its really not tied to nay smeicha program.

27

 Jun 28, 2017 at 01:03 PM kehati Says:

Reply to #19  
Maven Says:

Although i dont agree with posting news like these. It brings out the worse in people as we can all see from the nasty comments. Still the Chilul Hashem is huge.

Having said, lets not all fall into the trap saying: see its because a lack of secular education and "we" think that laws are not meant for frum Jews".
THE biggest crooks and thieves are by THE most intellectual educated Harvard grads. Wall street crooks,bankers,car mfg etc etc are being constantly fined in the billions for ripping off people.

But the "Harvard grads" and "Wall Street" don't claim that they were at Har Sinai. You can't have it both ways!

28

 Jun 28, 2017 at 01:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #18  
show me an old car Says:

I am sure there are exceptions but, in all the "frum' neighborhoods there is never a car older than 36 months. Is leasing new really cheaper than owning a car between 3 and 10 years old?.
Cars can easily last and be maintained at low cost to last up to 10 years but it is less impressive to the neighbors.
I grew up in a yeshiva world and I remember the rebeim cars were all old,
I apologize in advance to those with older cars (like mine) and those that really have no car for finacial reasons.

Big difference since you grew up. You can now lease a Nissan sentra for $89 a month with only 1395 due to at signing ( That's about $130 a month with zero down). It often does not make economic sense to buy old cars. Many lease because its cheaper to.

29

 Jun 28, 2017 at 01:14 PM ActualJew Says:

Reply to #15  
Anon10 Says:

It's amazing how all of you holier then thou self hating Jews are sooo worried about the chillul Hashem!! Every one of you have your own skeletons so keep the gestapo style hate to yourselves. Oh and the same government you are so worried about that they allegedly stole from also says innocent until proven guilty

This quote should be put on billboards in every yeshiva in America. It is everything that is wrong with frumkeit right now. Calling honest law abiding Jews the "Gestapo?" Really? and with poor grammar too, lol.
Guys like this hide behind what America affords us while ripping it off blind.
PS - I am frum Jew who drives very old car and reports every single penny of my income to the govt. I scrub my own toilets, get clothes second hand from friends for my kids (and myself), cut my own lawn, and still find time to daven each day. I helped a lady up the stairs on the subway yesterday and she thanked me for being such a good person. I only mention it because I always feel I have to be super Yid to make up for ganeivim and commenters like this.

30

 Jun 28, 2017 at 01:15 PM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #19  
Maven Says:

Although i dont agree with posting news like these. It brings out the worse in people as we can all see from the nasty comments. Still the Chilul Hashem is huge.

Having said, lets not all fall into the trap saying: see its because a lack of secular education and "we" think that laws are not meant for frum Jews".
THE biggest crooks and thieves are by THE most intellectual educated Harvard grads. Wall street crooks,bankers,car mfg etc etc are being constantly fined in the billions for ripping off people.

You are correct some of the biggest crooks are highly educated. This does not make it right. Someone who looks like they are still in Yeshiva are held to a much higher standard.

31

 Jun 28, 2017 at 01:16 PM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #23  
Maven Says:

A while back when some Shomrim member's got into trouble beating up an African American guy there was an individual who doesn't deserve his name to be mentioned who wrote a very nasty article in the Daily news or the Post how racist and nasty frum Jews are.How illiterate we are and therefore they beat up a Goy.

This individual was dancing on this frum shomrim guys blood. He couldn't get enough of this story. I bet this person will write some nasty disgusting articles about this fraud case.

Was it not emes?

32

 Jun 28, 2017 at 12:15 PM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #9  
IWRKNLKWD Says:

I work in this town, didn't get onto the programs, and struggle to pay for my rent, health insurance, and food. i live each month paycheck to paycheck, and report all my income because i was taught this when i was growing up (in an out of town city), once lie leads to another until its just to big to back out of. i am sure when they first started the programs they felt it was very small, and that why the rabbanim they asked (if they did ask) said its okay, but i doubt any rav would tell them with their current income its okay,

There has to be greater respect for work...and more people need to go to work. The yeshiva culture today regards as a failure any young man who cannot get into an "acceptable" kollel, or who otherwise seeks to work.

Years ago a family member worked for a major Jewish educational non-profit in lower Manhattan. The husband of one of her co-workers was a long serving cheder rebbe on Staten Island...who told this story:

He admonished a young student to stop talking in class, or something like that...and the boy responded "...I don't have to listen to you, you don't sit and learn like my tatty..." No further comment necessary.

Finally, I have read many comments that appear to justify the fraud on the basis of economic "need." As a law enforcement attorney, I know for certain that our prisons contain many people who committed burglaries and other crimes to get money needed in order to eat. Society nonetheless holds them accountable. The same should, and will hold true for the Lakewood defendants if they are found guilty

33

 Jun 28, 2017 at 02:10 PM chayamom Says:

Reply to #14  
Educated Archy Says:

I"ll add #9 .

9. The system in the USA encourages and entices these behaviors. It encourges people to become reliant on programs. Govt programs are so rich in nature and so expansive with no duration limits. Once I am on HUD, I am on Hud for life. Generally this just expands income inequality. People (whether frum jews or goyim on programs) have no drive or reason to obtain higher paying jobs. Why work hard and bring home less is the logic. Thus, its easier and worth it to remain poor and reliant on programs. So, overwhelmingly, we are legally gaming the system by simply remaining poor even though we have the now how to earn more money..

However, this over reliance on programs, tends to also entice a few not most to fraud. People see a great business opportunity and are stuck with losing 60K annually if they report it. So they are enticed to lie.

What's the solution? Cap all government benefits to a fixed amount of time unless you are disabled. After that you are on your own. (perhaps you can reapply after 12 or 24 months).

This is not an excuse to cheat but I am describing the yetzer hara that exists. We have a broken government and we need to make america great again

I agree with you that the system is set up in such a way that it is very difficult to get off. Rather than giving a time limit, I would suggest have some sort of tapering off system that when one begins earning better incomes there should be a gradual "weaning" off the programs so that one doesn't go from having support to earning less overall because of a total cut-off.

Honestly the government enjoys the power of having so many people rely on it. They would never implement a program that encourages people to get off public assistance.

34

 Jun 28, 2017 at 02:14 PM No new cars Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

Big difference since you grew up. You can now lease a Nissan sentra for $89 a month with only 1395 due to at signing ( That's about $130 a month with zero down). It often does not make economic sense to buy old cars. Many lease because its cheaper to.

Yes, there are deals but most cars are not Sentra models, they are Lexus and Toyota Camry's .The math does not always work to support that lifestyle.

35

 Jun 28, 2017 at 02:18 PM Don't blame special needs kids Says:

Reply to #25  
Anonymous Says:

It's so sad that at least several of these families had special needs children that was obviously a contributory factor to doing the indefensible things they did, and also the large amounts of Medicaid and ssi dollars that they were charged with unlawfully claiming. Not every one of them appears to have been in dire financial straits but at least one of the families that I know of and probably more has been in dire straights financially due do their special needs child. Does not excuse their behavior, just feel sad that they were put into this terrible situation and succumbed morally. I give my blessing to all of the above posters that none of you should unexpectedly have a Down syndrome or handicapped child as at least 3 of these families had and be faced with the huge family pressures and financial burden and the temptation to succumb to the circumstances and do the wrong thing as some if these families did.....

It is appalling to excuse their behavior based on having special needs kids. The special needs kids are holy neshamos, unlike any parent that steals. By the way, we live in a medina shel chesed that helps a lot for such cases. The special kids get medicaid without any consideration of parental income or assets. The special kids can even get SSI which in a poor family might be substantial.
Written by a special parent.

36

 Jun 28, 2017 at 02:28 PM yaakov doe Says:

Reply to #25  
Anonymous Says:

It's so sad that at least several of these families had special needs children that was obviously a contributory factor to doing the indefensible things they did, and also the large amounts of Medicaid and ssi dollars that they were charged with unlawfully claiming. Not every one of them appears to have been in dire financial straits but at least one of the families that I know of and probably more has been in dire straights financially due do their special needs child. Does not excuse their behavior, just feel sad that they were put into this terrible situation and succumbed morally. I give my blessing to all of the above posters that none of you should unexpectedly have a Down syndrome or handicapped child as at least 3 of these families had and be faced with the huge family pressures and financial burden and the temptation to succumb to the circumstances and do the wrong thing as some if these families did.....

I believe that there are waivers that allow special needs children to receive Medicaid benefits regardless of family income. Care and special medical equipment are covered in addition to actual medical expenses. Of course these benefits are only for the disabled child. There is absolutely no excuse to steel from the government and chillul Hashem is a serious avairah.

37

 Jun 28, 2017 at 02:33 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

Big difference since you grew up. You can now lease a Nissan sentra for $89 a month with only 1395 due to at signing ( That's about $130 a month with zero down). It often does not make economic sense to buy old cars. Many lease because its cheaper to.

I see very few of our brethren driving anything as inexpensive as a Sentra. Most are leasing bigger and more expensive vehicles paying $350-$900 monthly. In the good old days the yeshivish station wagons were all we knew.

38

 Jun 28, 2017 at 12:25 PM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #13  
Educated Archy Says:

I almost agreed with you till pointer #6. I don't know where yo cooked that one up. Who are we discriminating against those who we define as evil? And I think your notion of the christain right is backwards 20th century thinking. Yes there are still a few nutty Christains who are anti jews. But most of the right as the evangelicals are actually very pro jews. You still suffer from naziphobia my dear.

To the main point, I don't see how frum jews discriminate against those they define as "evil". There is one very rational group to discriminate against. That's muslims. Because Islam wants us frum yidden dead. Unfortunate this is not jsut a belief that us jews are taught. Almost all of us eyewitnesses this first hand. I have been spat at by Muslims while walking the streets of Israel and minding my won business. I have seen first hand terror attacks and I have friends who lost family members in terror attacks including 9/11. This is not about religion buddy. Its a real rational hatred. Muslims have blood dripping out of their eyes. Its so obvious that they hate us. Stop living in a cave. If you did not mean Muslims but rather Latinos most of us respect and spoil our cleaning ladies.

"Who are we discriminating against those who we define as evil? And I think your notion of the Christian right is backwards 20th century thinking."

Example: The notion that Constitutionally protected religious freedom somehow permits a florist to discriminate by refusing service to a gay couple, a hallmark attitude of bigots like you and many on the Christian right...and legal hogwash.

And Muslims have nothing to do with this...so who's obsessed?

You say:

"This is not about religion buddy. Its a real rational hatred. Muslims have blood dripping out of their eyes. Its so obvious that they hate us. Stop living in a cave. If you did not mean Muslims but rather Latinos most of us respect and spoil our cleaning ladies.”

I cannot think of any better summary of what you are really about...amazing that you would take pride in such a statement.

39

 Jun 28, 2017 at 03:08 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #32  
yonasonw Says:

There has to be greater respect for work...and more people need to go to work. The yeshiva culture today regards as a failure any young man who cannot get into an "acceptable" kollel, or who otherwise seeks to work.

Years ago a family member worked for a major Jewish educational non-profit in lower Manhattan. The husband of one of her co-workers was a long serving cheder rebbe on Staten Island...who told this story:

He admonished a young student to stop talking in class, or something like that...and the boy responded "...I don't have to listen to you, you don't sit and learn like my tatty..." No further comment necessary.

Finally, I have read many comments that appear to justify the fraud on the basis of economic "need." As a law enforcement attorney, I know for certain that our prisons contain many people who committed burglaries and other crimes to get money needed in order to eat. Society nonetheless holds them accountable. The same should, and will hold true for the Lakewood defendants if they are found guilty

"As a law enforcement attorney...."

What is a law enforcement attorney? I have heard of a personal injury attorney or an elderlaw attorney or a real estate attorney. What is a law enforcement attorney?

40

 Jun 28, 2017 at 03:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
Don't blame special needs kids Says:

It is appalling to excuse their behavior based on having special needs kids. The special needs kids are holy neshamos, unlike any parent that steals. By the way, we live in a medina shel chesed that helps a lot for such cases. The special kids get medicaid without any consideration of parental income or assets. The special kids can even get SSI which in a poor family might be substantial.
Written by a special parent.

(Reply to #35)
No one is condoning their behavior. Is was wrong, plain and simple. But I was pointing out to all those posters who so smugly look down on these families, that the temptation that they would face if they had such a child would be enormous, and many of these same posters espousing self righteous indignation might very well succumb to the same temptation. The government covers many needs of special children but far from all. Say the child is doing poorly at every local institution and the only chance for him to function in any capacity would be to send him to a 50,000 out of state specialized program not covered by Medicaid. Now the parent is face with the agonizing choice of watching their child be passively destroyed and non functional or cutting corners on a SNAP application. I would hope most of us would choose the former but would not look down in smug self satisfaction at one who made the wrong choice. Just disappointment that they did the wrong thing. What if your child lacked basic food and was starving. Many more of us would be tempted to address it unlawfully. Is the emotional survival of the special needs child all that different? Again, no justification for what was wrong and unlawful, just a little understanding of the desperation that may haven driven some of them to do wrong....

41

 Jun 28, 2017 at 03:53 PM The_Truth Says:

So Monday was those who collected illegal benefits in 7 figure range, Wednesday those in 6 figure range... does that mean by Friday they will be targeting those who defrauded the benefits in the 5 figure range?

42

 Jun 28, 2017 at 03:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
yonasonw Says:

1 of 2

Contributing to a group psychology which helps enable a massive fraud like this, I suggest, is an exaggerated and hostile disassociation from the larger American society, due to the following factors:

1. The often asserted mantra that "...we're not really Americans; we're just visiting here" - denigrating even nice simplicities as Mothers Day, dafka refusing to acknowledge Memorial Day and other significant secular national days;

2. An educational system that at the elementary level teaches no civics, at higher levels fails to teach anything about our system of government, or anything positive about anyone outside the Klal, and which excoriates the value of just about all secular education;

3. Rabbinical leaders educated in that system who, even at the highest levels, possess crude misunderstandings of our legal and political system;

4. A triumphal belief in our inherent superiority, which denigrates and dismisses the humanity of all others...and makes stealing from "them" "permissible;"

you are full of self hatred

43

 Jun 28, 2017 at 03:59 PM Oyvey Says:

שאילתות דרב אחאי פרשת ויחי שאילתא לו

דמחייבין דבית ישראל למישקל ולמיטרא בהימנותא ואילו מאן דאמר ליה לחבריה מזבננא ליך האי מידי לא בעי ליה למיהדר ביה ואף על גב דאי בעי למיהדר מצי הדר דיבורא בעלמא הוא דא"ל אפילו הכי לא מיתבעי ליה למיהדר בדיבוריה אלא מיבעי ליה למיקם בהימנותא ועליה איתמר הדין קרייא עיני בנאמני ארץ לשבת עמדי מלמד שזוכה ויושב במחיצתו של הקדוש ברוך הוא ולא מיבעייא דאמר ליה מיזבננא האי מידי אלא אפילו גמר בליביה לזבוני ליה אף על גב דלא אפיק מן פומיה לא מיתבעי ליה למיהדר ביה דכתיב הולך תמים ופועל צדק ודובר אמת בלבבו

44

 Jun 28, 2017 at 04:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
Maven Says:

Although i dont agree with posting news like these. It brings out the worse in people as we can all see from the nasty comments. Still the Chilul Hashem is huge.

Having said, lets not all fall into the trap saying: see its because a lack of secular education and "we" think that laws are not meant for frum Jews".
THE biggest crooks and thieves are by THE most intellectual educated Harvard grads. Wall street crooks,bankers,car mfg etc etc are being constantly fined in the billions for ripping off people.

25% of the concentration camps had phds'

45

 Jun 28, 2017 at 04:03 PM Ari D Says:

Reply to #38  
yonasonw Says:

"Who are we discriminating against those who we define as evil? And I think your notion of the Christian right is backwards 20th century thinking."

Example: The notion that Constitutionally protected religious freedom somehow permits a florist to discriminate by refusing service to a gay couple, a hallmark attitude of bigots like you and many on the Christian right...and legal hogwash.

And Muslims have nothing to do with this...so who's obsessed?

You say:

"This is not about religion buddy. Its a real rational hatred. Muslims have blood dripping out of their eyes. Its so obvious that they hate us. Stop living in a cave. If you did not mean Muslims but rather Latinos most of us respect and spoil our cleaning ladies.”

I cannot think of any better summary of what you are really about...amazing that you would take pride in such a statement.

I really wish you would get off your soapbox and stop preaching.
I agree with his muslim comment, as should any sane reasonable person.
You were the one who brought up this ridiculous "hate" you think we have for others not like us, so he reasonably asked what you were talking about, and said the only group he could think of would be islamists and for good reason.
You make me sick, trying to throw in all of your krume theories about what you think is wrong with klal yisrael.
Nobody wants to hear it!

46

 Jun 28, 2017 at 04:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
Maven Says:

Although i dont agree with posting news like these. It brings out the worse in people as we can all see from the nasty comments. Still the Chilul Hashem is huge.

Having said, lets not all fall into the trap saying: see its because a lack of secular education and "we" think that laws are not meant for frum Jews".
THE biggest crooks and thieves are by THE most intellectual educated Harvard grads. Wall street crooks,bankers,car mfg etc etc are being constantly fined in the billions for ripping off people.

I know the systems both in American and England. It is built for people to stay on it forever. In England it is worst. A 16 year old girl gets pregnant and get a flat from the government, has her boyfriend move in with his slightly used BMW. Smoke dope most of the day and get further benefit for her and the child. They rip the place apart, destroy the flat and call the council that it needs new carpet, curtains, etc etc. Please don't come before 3:pm we or rather I am sleeping. Yet a friend of mind has a bipolar daughter he needs constant care and in a mental hospital and he had to fight 3 years to get the help she needed. The council was paying about £40,000 and the help she needed cost £110,000 and they kept going to court not to pay but finally lost. Just thing of keeping 1 young lady in the hospital at the cost of £110,000 so the figures they are saying they "stole" might not be totally what they are shouting. AS FAR as Moslem are concerning, I have friends that are Moslems and they are great people but I have been cursed at because I am a Jew many times in London and Antwrepen, and as a child felt must Catholic discrimination because I was a Jew.

47

 Jun 28, 2017 at 04:17 PM The Professor Says:

Reply to #10  
AyinRoeh Says:

The oilam is reminded to re-read the last paragraph in the news story.

Acknowledged - no one is guilty until convicted beyond reasonable doubt by a jury of their peers. However, when so many people are arrested for essentially the same charges, one is led to believe that an ongoing, long-running investigation has uncovered the documentation to allow a district attorney to establish in his/her mind probable cause. It regrettable that a whole generation of Jews have been raised both here and in Israel with the twisted idea that limud ha-Torah is not just an obligation - but an entitlement. Let them show me where in the Torah that concept is recited.

48

 Jun 28, 2017 at 04:19 PM The_Truth Says:

Reply to #40  
Anonymous Says:

(Reply to #35)
No one is condoning their behavior. Is was wrong, plain and simple. But I was pointing out to all those posters who so smugly look down on these families, that the temptation that they would face if they had such a child would be enormous, and many of these same posters espousing self righteous indignation might very well succumb to the same temptation. The government covers many needs of special children but far from all. Say the child is doing poorly at every local institution and the only chance for him to function in any capacity would be to send him to a 50,000 out of state specialized program not covered by Medicaid. Now the parent is face with the agonizing choice of watching their child be passively destroyed and non functional or cutting corners on a SNAP application. I would hope most of us would choose the former but would not look down in smug self satisfaction at one who made the wrong choice. Just disappointment that they did the wrong thing. What if your child lacked basic food and was starving. Many more of us would be tempted to address it unlawfully. Is the emotional survival of the special needs child all that different? Again, no justification for what was wrong and unlawful, just a little understanding of the desperation that may haven driven some of them to do wrong....

I totally hear you. I have first hand seen how little services are given out sometimes while the parents are left with the choice of either going along with the little assistance given, or shelling out of their pocket for more than they can afford in order to give their child a better life. All the while, seeing others who seem to qualify for everything possible and not need it and live the high life. The temptation to cut corners is all too real, not because they want to cheat, but because the system is rigged for very specific (often arbitrary) situations and cases.

49

 Jun 28, 2017 at 04:19 PM Really? Says:

Are these people truly Jewish or are they descendants of some who were mixed in?
(צפניה ג) 'שארית ישראל לא יעשו עולה ולא ידברו כזב'

50

 Jun 28, 2017 at 04:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
Educated Archy Says:

I almost agreed with you till pointer #6. I don't know where yo cooked that one up. Who are we discriminating against those who we define as evil? And I think your notion of the christain right is backwards 20th century thinking. Yes there are still a few nutty Christains who are anti jews. But most of the right as the evangelicals are actually very pro jews. You still suffer from naziphobia my dear.

To the main point, I don't see how frum jews discriminate against those they define as "evil". There is one very rational group to discriminate against. That's muslims. Because Islam wants us frum yidden dead. Unfortunate this is not jsut a belief that us jews are taught. Almost all of us eyewitnesses this first hand. I have been spat at by Muslims while walking the streets of Israel and minding my won business. I have seen first hand terror attacks and I have friends who lost family members in terror attacks including 9/11. This is not about religion buddy. Its a real rational hatred. Muslims have blood dripping out of their eyes. Its so obvious that they hate us. Stop living in a cave. If you did not mean Muslims but rather Latinos most of us respect and spoil our cleaning ladies.

" But most of the right as the evangelicals are actually very pro jews."

Evangelicals believe that the War of Gog and Magog, between Israel and Iran is coming and in that war, the majority of world Jewry will perish before the tattered remnant of 144,000 Jews will then proclaim Jesus as Lord intiating the Second Coming.

With "friends" like this who needs enemies?

51

 Jun 28, 2017 at 04:27 PM The_Truth Says:

Reply to #40  
Anonymous Says:

(Reply to #35)
No one is condoning their behavior. Is was wrong, plain and simple. But I was pointing out to all those posters who so smugly look down on these families, that the temptation that they would face if they had such a child would be enormous, and many of these same posters espousing self righteous indignation might very well succumb to the same temptation. The government covers many needs of special children but far from all. Say the child is doing poorly at every local institution and the only chance for him to function in any capacity would be to send him to a 50,000 out of state specialized program not covered by Medicaid. Now the parent is face with the agonizing choice of watching their child be passively destroyed and non functional or cutting corners on a SNAP application. I would hope most of us would choose the former but would not look down in smug self satisfaction at one who made the wrong choice. Just disappointment that they did the wrong thing. What if your child lacked basic food and was starving. Many more of us would be tempted to address it unlawfully. Is the emotional survival of the special needs child all that different? Again, no justification for what was wrong and unlawful, just a little understanding of the desperation that may haven driven some of them to do wrong....

I applaud Vos Iz Neias for posting this (original and continuing) story, while many (all?) other Jewish sites have swept it under the rug. This is something that should be talked about, discussed and aired in public, even if only to stop people doing this again. The hundreds of calls to the department to change their earning status & get off the programs this week, can only be accredited to the high profile and media attention given to these cases. It would benefit everyone if community organizations, Rabbonim & Askonim will advise & help people do the right thing and change from previous bad choices before they also get caught, but I don't see that happening.

52

 Jun 28, 2017 at 04:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #18  
show me an old car Says:

I am sure there are exceptions but, in all the "frum' neighborhoods there is never a car older than 36 months. Is leasing new really cheaper than owning a car between 3 and 10 years old?.
Cars can easily last and be maintained at low cost to last up to 10 years but it is less impressive to the neighbors.
I grew up in a yeshiva world and I remember the rebeim cars were all old,
I apologize in advance to those with older cars (like mine) and those that really have no car for finacial reasons.

Leasing is a lot cheaper than owning an older car.

An older car can cost thousands of dollars in repairs and these are unpredictable expenses.

And it is also important to have a safe, reliable vehicle to get to work and get children to school, etc.

None of us can afford to have a car in the shop for a week at a time, 2-3 times a year.

53

 Jun 28, 2017 at 04:41 PM The_Truth Says:

Reply to #47  
The Professor Says:

Acknowledged - no one is guilty until convicted beyond reasonable doubt by a jury of their peers. However, when so many people are arrested for essentially the same charges, one is led to believe that an ongoing, long-running investigation has uncovered the documentation to allow a district attorney to establish in his/her mind probable cause. It regrettable that a whole generation of Jews have been raised both here and in Israel with the twisted idea that limud ha-Torah is not just an obligation - but an entitlement. Let them show me where in the Torah that concept is recited.

1) I am pretty sure the Rambam says that one should not be paid to sit and learn Torah. (If you could help me out with a reference would be appreciated.)
2) בְּזֵעַת אַפֶּיךָ, תֹּאכַל לֶחֶם
3) ששת ימים תעבודו

54

 Jun 28, 2017 at 04:50 PM Educated Archy Says:

Reply to #38  
yonasonw Says:

"Who are we discriminating against those who we define as evil? And I think your notion of the Christian right is backwards 20th century thinking."

Example: The notion that Constitutionally protected religious freedom somehow permits a florist to discriminate by refusing service to a gay couple, a hallmark attitude of bigots like you and many on the Christian right...and legal hogwash.

And Muslims have nothing to do with this...so who's obsessed?

You say:

"This is not about religion buddy. Its a real rational hatred. Muslims have blood dripping out of their eyes. Its so obvious that they hate us. Stop living in a cave. If you did not mean Muslims but rather Latinos most of us respect and spoil our cleaning ladies.”

I cannot think of any better summary of what you are really about...amazing that you would take pride in such a statement.

Yes I take pride in a common sense statement. I am not a bigot for hating people that want me dead.

And re a florist who refuses to service gay weedings? Do you really think us yidden should? How would you feel if Ateres Avraham wedding hall was sued because they did not want to allow a gay wedding there? Is that OK? Do you really feel we should forced to service gay people against our belief? That's somehow bigoted??? I have no problem if you want to live a gay lifestyle and If i own a grocery store, jew or not come shop by me. But as a jew you want to force me to promote something that I believe is an abomination? And that's bigoted? Are you nuts? Is there any rabbi that would endorse such a thing other than a left MO rabbi?
And how would you feel if jewish schools are forced to offer transgender bathrooms? (Make no mistake. Transgender bathrooms are coming to the supreme court soon) Should we allow that too? Bigoted????

55

 Jun 28, 2017 at 05:07 PM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #51  
The_Truth Says:

I applaud Vos Iz Neias for posting this (original and continuing) story, while many (all?) other Jewish sites have swept it under the rug. This is something that should be talked about, discussed and aired in public, even if only to stop people doing this again. The hundreds of calls to the department to change their earning status & get off the programs this week, can only be accredited to the high profile and media attention given to these cases. It would benefit everyone if community organizations, Rabbonim & Askonim will advise & help people do the right thing and change from previous bad choices before they also get caught, but I don't see that happening.

"... while many (all?) other Jewish sites have swept it under the rug. This is something that should be talked about..",

YWN has a powerful op ed piece on the issue today. See:

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1305770/op-ed-will-start-following-law-start-avoiding-colossal-chillul-hashem.html

56

 Jun 28, 2017 at 05:14 PM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #39  
Ina Says:

"As a law enforcement attorney...."

What is a law enforcement attorney? I have heard of a personal injury attorney or an elderlaw attorney or a real estate attorney. What is a law enforcement attorney?

An attorney working in and for a law enforcement agency...I work primarily on regulatory and legislative issues, with concentrations in procedural due process, use of force, enforcement of federal mandates, discipline and correctional facility management.

57

 Jun 28, 2017 at 05:24 PM Dr_Nat Says:

You guys can all debate from today till tomorrow about if it's proper to judge these people etc. etc.

The fact of the matter is that something was done, and things are still being done that is causing the goyim to despise us. Right now, it may only be the bigoted anti-semites that are speaking up. But I promise you that if things don't change soon, the circle of haters will grow and grow and eventually go national. Then you can still talk about if it was really geneiva or if the Harvard grads are bigger gonifs or if leases are better than buying old cars.

The bottom line is that a community of 60,000 people cannot behave as if they are a small minority anymore. Because we are not under the radar anymore and cannot get away with ANYTHING. Even things that are really kosher, but just look bad to the goyim. We have to change and fast.

58

 Jun 28, 2017 at 05:43 PM internisht Says:

Reply to #10  
AyinRoeh Says:

The oilam is reminded to re-read the last paragraph in the news story.

you know, there was once an asifa on the internisht, and it filled up CitiField, or otherwise put, 50,000 people showed up. Then there was the asifa on honesty, in which Ben Brafman, the noted Criminal attorney spoke, it was in the basement of a shul, and a sparse crowd showed up. Shall i laugh or cry???

59

 Jun 28, 2017 at 05:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
yonasonw Says:

"Who are we discriminating against those who we define as evil? And I think your notion of the Christian right is backwards 20th century thinking."

Example: The notion that Constitutionally protected religious freedom somehow permits a florist to discriminate by refusing service to a gay couple, a hallmark attitude of bigots like you and many on the Christian right...and legal hogwash.

And Muslims have nothing to do with this...so who's obsessed?

You say:

"This is not about religion buddy. Its a real rational hatred. Muslims have blood dripping out of their eyes. Its so obvious that they hate us. Stop living in a cave. If you did not mean Muslims but rather Latinos most of us respect and spoil our cleaning ladies.”

I cannot think of any better summary of what you are really about...amazing that you would take pride in such a statement.

catering a same sex "marriage" is a chillul Hashem. If a jew supports forcing another Jew to bake a cake for a same sex "Wedding" the former jew is a rasha gamur.

whenever I see Jews like you I remind myself Vladimir Lenin's first cabinet had a shomer Shabbos minister.

60

 Jun 28, 2017 at 05:40 PM heeb Says:

Reply to #10  
AyinRoeh Says:

The oilam is reminded to re-read the last paragraph in the news story.

i love how you use the American concept of innocent until proven guilty, but not the American concept of declaring income, and not taking whats not yours...........

61

 Jun 28, 2017 at 05:55 PM Barzilai Says:

Reply to #56  
yonasonw Says:

An attorney working in and for a law enforcement agency...I work primarily on regulatory and legislative issues, with concentrations in procedural due process, use of force, enforcement of federal mandates, discipline and correctional facility management.

Any honest observer and every businessman knows that we Ashkenazim have a weakness when it comes to ehrlichkait in dinei momonus, and it's not going away any time soon. Those of you that are really troubled by tjid have to redouble their efforts in passing on your mesora of mentcjlachkait in momonus to your children, even if others laugh at you and call you a naive fool.

62

 Jun 28, 2017 at 07:11 PM RobertS Says:

Reply to #53  
The_Truth Says:

1) I am pretty sure the Rambam says that one should not be paid to sit and learn Torah. (If you could help me out with a reference would be appreciated.)
2) בְּזֵעַת אַפֶּיךָ, תֹּאכַל לֶחֶם
3) ששת ימים תעבודו

The Kotzer Rebbe said that learning Torah can become a form of avodah zara. If you learn Choshen Misphat but cheat customers and government , then maybe that is true

63

 Jun 28, 2017 at 07:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #39  
Ina Says:

"As a law enforcement attorney...."

What is a law enforcement attorney? I have heard of a personal injury attorney or an elderlaw attorney or a real estate attorney. What is a law enforcement attorney?

Attornies who work in law enforcement. Like prosecutors. And the FBI recruits attorneys to become FBI agents.

64

 Jun 28, 2017 at 07:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
AyinRoeh Says:

The oilam is reminded to re-read the last paragraph in the news story.

Prosectors do not make so many arrests and make such a public spectacle of arrests unless they have so much evidence that they are very confident that they can indict and convict. Until convicted they are indeed legally innocent but in practical terms that means only that the burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the accused.

65

 Jun 28, 2017 at 07:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

Big difference since you grew up. You can now lease a Nissan sentra for $89 a month with only 1395 due to at signing ( That's about $130 a month with zero down). It often does not make economic sense to buy old cars. Many lease because its cheaper to.

Maybe the monthly payments are cheaper, but you wind up with zero equity at the end of the lease and need to find another car. And leased cars still have to be repaired as lessors' responsibility if needed. It is less expensive in long term to buy new or lightly used cars, maintain them well, and drive them for 10 or more years. But that won't impress the neighbors or prospective machatunim.

66

 Jun 28, 2017 at 07:27 PM AyinRoeh Says:

Reply to #58  
internisht Says:

you know, there was once an asifa on the internisht, and it filled up CitiField, or otherwise put, 50,000 people showed up. Then there was the asifa on honesty, in which Ben Brafman, the noted Criminal attorney spoke, it was in the basement of a shul, and a sparse crowd showed up. Shall i laugh or cry???

You should cry, but how is that a reply to my comment about legal presumption of innocence?

67

 Jun 28, 2017 at 07:55 PM sane Says:

Reply to #19  
Maven Says:

Although i dont agree with posting news like these. It brings out the worse in people as we can all see from the nasty comments. Still the Chilul Hashem is huge.

Having said, lets not all fall into the trap saying: see its because a lack of secular education and "we" think that laws are not meant for frum Jews".
THE biggest crooks and thieves are by THE most intellectual educated Harvard grads. Wall street crooks,bankers,car mfg etc etc are being constantly fined in the billions for ripping off people.

Yes but religious hypocracy is far more detestable. At least the Wall St. Thugs dont claim to be pious spiritual types.

68

 Jun 28, 2017 at 09:41 PM mr613 Says:

Reply to #9  
IWRKNLKWD Says:

I work in this town, didn't get onto the programs, and struggle to pay for my rent, health insurance, and food. i live each month paycheck to paycheck, and report all my income because i was taught this when i was growing up (in an out of town city), once lie leads to another until its just to big to back out of. i am sure when they first started the programs they felt it was very small, and that why the rabbanim they asked (if they did ask) said its okay, but i doubt any rav would tell them with their current income its okay,

You have just highlighted the ignorance of the Lakewood klal!
"I'm sure if they ask a Rav"
Really ?
You would ask a Rav if it's ok to break the law by comiting fraud?
What if the Rav said yes?
From your comment I'd venture to say you know there would or could be circumstances where in your mind a "Rav" would justify comiting fraud!

Lakewood = Fakewood!

69

 Jun 28, 2017 at 10:38 PM Thunk Says:

A few points :

A . I see many comments regarding kolel, some rather well-thought-out however I'm not sure how we got there , Lakewood is not what it used to be the majority don't sit and learn .the enrollment in BMG is roughly 5K the town has roughly 13 K families do the math yourself. most of those arrested only sat for minimal time in kolel if at all.
B. as far as Jersey care/medical insurance fraud, you can easily earn 100 K plus and still qualify , it was clearly not meant only for low income families. Hence not much of an issue for any family in kolel, all those arrested had businesses , because they were self-employed they were scrutinized .
C. As we have seen in the past , an arrest not necessarily means one is guilty all law-enforcement must show is probable cause, the release to the press , which of course is a great chilul hashem, contains many exaggerations and inaccuracies, when the DA claims that someone took $500,000, very possibly can be the charge is that someone underreported his income by $5000, which very well can be reconciled, however the powers to be would rather have an arrest and then drop charges rather then hearing all the details first. this has happened more than once. it's a matter of politics and career advancement . There are those who claim that The reason often times these charges Are dropped Is proof positive of the ultra-Orthodox clout, The truth must be told very many times these charges have no chance of holding up in court.

70

 Jun 29, 2017 at 08:08 AM Anonymous Says:

Here's the dirty little secret that nobody is acknowledging....frum young couples are in the hole when they walk down the chuppah. They get married young with no employable skills and live in mostly expensive densely populated areas. When they decide to work they already have more than one child and either have to start professional training or enter the job market at a low paying job that makes it very difficult for them to support their families, save money and set themselves up for financial success. (Go Dave Ramsey!)
Instead these wealthy Rosh Yeshivas and/or parents etc push learning instead of pushing living an ehrliche lifestyle. It just doesn't fit their agenda!
I refused to put my adult sons in this precarious position, I love them too much.

71

 Jun 29, 2017 at 09:06 AM maxedout Says:

Reply to #58  
internisht Says:

you know, there was once an asifa on the internisht, and it filled up CitiField, or otherwise put, 50,000 people showed up. Then there was the asifa on honesty, in which Ben Brafman, the noted Criminal attorney spoke, it was in the basement of a shul, and a sparse crowd showed up. Shall i laugh or cry???

internisht: the asifa was full because the satmar sheep follow whatever the "holy" rebbe tells them to do. The fact that thousands of attendees were on their smartphones during the asifa, shows what a joke it was. But fear not, folks are leaving satmar in droves. I guess the internisht is teaching them that there is a real world out there and the rebbe is not a deity, merely a man born with the right dna.

72

 Jun 29, 2017 at 09:50 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

You live on the river called DENILE!

Have you seen anything like this happen yet in BP and Willi and on this scale?? I would venture to say it's much worse there than in Lakewood!

73

 Jun 29, 2017 at 09:54 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
Maven Says:

Although i dont agree with posting news like these. It brings out the worse in people as we can all see from the nasty comments. Still the Chilul Hashem is huge.

Having said, lets not all fall into the trap saying: see its because a lack of secular education and "we" think that laws are not meant for frum Jews".
THE biggest crooks and thieves are by THE most intellectual educated Harvard grads. Wall street crooks,bankers,car mfg etc etc are being constantly fined in the billions for ripping off people.

And this is the same argument we see here, that the goyim are much worse and the minorities do the same. So my answer is, that makes it kosher??? Aren't we the Am hanivchar, above this kind of schtick???

74

 Jun 29, 2017 at 09:58 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

Big difference since you grew up. You can now lease a Nissan sentra for $89 a month with only 1395 due to at signing ( That's about $130 a month with zero down). It often does not make economic sense to buy old cars. Many lease because its cheaper to.

Nobody with 10 kids is gonna lease an econobox like that. The vans and SUVs are much more expensive!

75

 Jun 29, 2017 at 10:19 AM sane Says:

Reply to #65  
Anonymous Says:

Maybe the monthly payments are cheaper, but you wind up with zero equity at the end of the lease and need to find another car. And leased cars still have to be repaired as lessors' responsibility if needed. It is less expensive in long term to buy new or lightly used cars, maintain them well, and drive them for 10 or more years. But that won't impress the neighbors or prospective machatunim.

You are right. I have no problem driving a 10 year old car. For some strange reason others do.

76

 Jun 29, 2017 at 09:58 AM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #59  
Anonymous Says:

catering a same sex "marriage" is a chillul Hashem. If a jew supports forcing another Jew to bake a cake for a same sex "Wedding" the former jew is a rasha gamur.

whenever I see Jews like you I remind myself Vladimir Lenin's first cabinet had a shomer Shabbos minister.

I think you do not belong in the United States...you want to poskin the Constitution by your personal take on Halacha...which in this case is not even correct.

Whenever I hear Jews like you I remind myself how close our own intolerant fundamentalists are to ISIS.

77

 Jun 29, 2017 at 10:05 AM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #66  
AyinRoeh Says:

You should cry, but how is that a reply to my comment about legal presumption of innocence?

You are mixing together Torah and American jurisprudence.

If you witness a person stab another, our Constitutional law bestows on the perpetrator a presumption of innocence, and places on the prosecution the burden of proving guilt by the high standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt."

That, however, is independent of how we are supposed to react to the event al pi Torah.

78

 Jun 29, 2017 at 12:51 PM Working EX Kollel Guy Says:

Reply to #70  
Anonymous Says:

Here's the dirty little secret that nobody is acknowledging....frum young couples are in the hole when they walk down the chuppah. They get married young with no employable skills and live in mostly expensive densely populated areas. When they decide to work they already have more than one child and either have to start professional training or enter the job market at a low paying job that makes it very difficult for them to support their families, save money and set themselves up for financial success. (Go Dave Ramsey!)
Instead these wealthy Rosh Yeshivas and/or parents etc push learning instead of pushing living an ehrliche lifestyle. It just doesn't fit their agenda!
I refused to put my adult sons in this precarious position, I love them too much.

And guess what I have another dirty little secret.

Secular walk down the isle riddled with student debt and often do not hold a meaningful degree or earn enough to ever pay a mortgage + a home. Read up about the student loan probelms.

I work in corporate america and many are not better off. You start schooling with one kid but knock off school within 24 months and then get meaningful employment. One child is not so taxing on life. I did it. And in fact those of us ins school married were far more driven and mature vs 18 yr olds in school.

Nowadays you can rent a basement in Lakewood for $600 a month. Costs are really not high at all with one child. You can easily swing a child and school. I find it alot more challenging to uphold my daily job with 4 children vs one child and in school.

The system whereby people go to school after one child is the best system. Its far better than immature 18 yr olds attending school and never using their degrees.
The problem arises when people feel programs should be a way of life. When people say we will never work thanks to programs. However, those that have a sense of responsibility to earn a parnsa, starting off after one child is ideal.

79

 Jun 29, 2017 at 12:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #74  
Anonymous Says:

Nobody with 10 kids is gonna lease an econobox like that. The vans and SUVs are much more expensive!

And so are mini van purcahses. If you have 10 kids you won't find a decent van for under 15k. So yes leases are more expensive but so are the costs of owning a mini van more expensive.

80

 Jun 29, 2017 at 12:58 PM Educated Archy Says:

Reply to #76  
yonasonw Says:

I think you do not belong in the United States...you want to poskin the Constitution by your personal take on Halacha...which in this case is not even correct.

Whenever I hear Jews like you I remind myself how close our own intolerant fundamentalists are to ISIS.

So you are comfortable with forcing Korn's bakery to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

How about forcing a fine jewish wedding hall to allow a gay wedding?

How about forcing a jewish school to allow transgenders?

The Constitution is not toras moshe and up to interpretation.

This is not about intolernace. Intolerance is say when a jewish grocer says no Gays can shop in my store. This is about forcing us to service gays when that particular service is directly promoting a lifestyle against our religion. Buyng a container of milk does not promote gay life style's even if the buyer is gay. I disagree with your assertion that one is a bigot or an Islamist or intolerant with such a belief.

81

 Jun 29, 2017 at 12:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #65  
Anonymous Says:

Maybe the monthly payments are cheaper, but you wind up with zero equity at the end of the lease and need to find another car. And leased cars still have to be repaired as lessors' responsibility if needed. It is less expensive in long term to buy new or lightly used cars, maintain them well, and drive them for 10 or more years. But that won't impress the neighbors or prospective machatunim.

Leased cares do not have to be repaired. Most take out a 5,000 waiver. Its true you end up with nothing at the end of your lease. But if you took all expenses paid including the initial expenses plus Monthly maintenance for a car you drive for 10 years and lumped that into monthy payments, I doubt it will come out to much less than 130 a month. If less only slightly less. I disagree with the "impress neighboors" narrative.

FYI, I lease and its not because I give a hoot about neighbors.

82

 Jun 29, 2017 at 02:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #78  
Working EX Kollel Guy Says:

And guess what I have another dirty little secret.

Secular walk down the isle riddled with student debt and often do not hold a meaningful degree or earn enough to ever pay a mortgage + a home. Read up about the student loan probelms.

I work in corporate america and many are not better off. You start schooling with one kid but knock off school within 24 months and then get meaningful employment. One child is not so taxing on life. I did it. And in fact those of us ins school married were far more driven and mature vs 18 yr olds in school.

Nowadays you can rent a basement in Lakewood for $600 a month. Costs are really not high at all with one child. You can easily swing a child and school. I find it alot more challenging to uphold my daily job with 4 children vs one child and in school.

The system whereby people go to school after one child is the best system. Its far better than immature 18 yr olds attending school and never using their degrees.
The problem arises when people feel programs should be a way of life. When people say we will never work thanks to programs. However, those that have a sense of responsibility to earn a parnsa, starting off after one child is ideal.

Once they have tasted that dependency, it's very hard to get off it.

83

 Jun 29, 2017 at 04:36 PM OutOfTownfrumJew Says:

Reply to #3  
radrad Says:

For some strange reason these idiots think they can steal from the gov't without recourse. What a CHILUL HASHEM, especially when they pose as such pious ppl

Please don't assume that what a anti-semetic prosecutor or government official says is true. Did everyone forget about Rubashkin, who is still sitting in jail after numerous attorney generals have called the prosecution a tremendous miscarriage of justice - he is in jail because he is a Jew. We are in golus and
none of us are immune. I don't believe anyone got hundreds of thousands from the government, they are probably counting every medical bill ever put through on Medicaid. Furthermore, I did intakes for the goyim at Lakewood Headstart who all claimed poverty, and drove escalades and plopped down hundreds of dollars in cash for school pictures, no exaggeration. Is anyone going to go after them, no because their not Jewish and nebach they are poor poor minorities - it wouldn't be politically correct. Unfortanately, it is now very politically correct to go after frum Jews!! Daven, don't judge.

84

 Jun 29, 2017 at 06:06 PM Anonymous Says:

The ignorance in these comments is unbelievable. Guess what? I'm not Jewish and I was able to create an account to try to understand the Jewish side to this story. This is bigotry at its worst. How would you like it if I owned a gas station and refused YOU service because it's against my beliefs to serve a vehicle containing women covering their hair? It is the same principle as refusing to bake a cake for a wedding.

I won't continue because you can't reason with ignorant people.

The paranoia you exhibit about being scrutinized has now become a reality. If I, a goyiem, was able to see your comments in these articles, I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I will pray for all of you because we are all God's children.

85

 Jun 30, 2017 at 09:58 AM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #83  
OutOfTownfrumJew Says:

Please don't assume that what a anti-semetic prosecutor or government official says is true. Did everyone forget about Rubashkin, who is still sitting in jail after numerous attorney generals have called the prosecution a tremendous miscarriage of justice - he is in jail because he is a Jew. We are in golus and
none of us are immune. I don't believe anyone got hundreds of thousands from the government, they are probably counting every medical bill ever put through on Medicaid. Furthermore, I did intakes for the goyim at Lakewood Headstart who all claimed poverty, and drove escalades and plopped down hundreds of dollars in cash for school pictures, no exaggeration. Is anyone going to go after them, no because their not Jewish and nebach they are poor poor minorities - it wouldn't be politically correct. Unfortanately, it is now very politically correct to go after frum Jews!! Daven, don't judge.

Rubashkin's case involves alleged judicial over-involvement with prosecutors, and questions as to the appropriateness of his sentence.

That said, it is abundantly clear (I have read the decisions in the case) that he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of both financial and immigration fraud.

You should be more concerned with the criminal conduct of Yidden that brings shame on us all, and stop your baseless accusations of anti-Semitism when law enforcement is merely doing its job to apprehend greedy abhorrent felons.

86

 Jun 30, 2017 at 10:10 AM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #80  
Educated Archy Says:

So you are comfortable with forcing Korn's bakery to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

How about forcing a fine jewish wedding hall to allow a gay wedding?

How about forcing a jewish school to allow transgenders?

The Constitution is not toras moshe and up to interpretation.

This is not about intolernace. Intolerance is say when a jewish grocer says no Gays can shop in my store. This is about forcing us to service gays when that particular service is directly promoting a lifestyle against our religion. Buyng a container of milk does not promote gay life style's even if the buyer is gay. I disagree with your assertion that one is a bigot or an Islamist or intolerant with such a belief.

Sometimes...no, many times....your rants exhibit such ignorance of law and stupidity that it's hardly worth the effort of replying...

...Nothing in the Constitution would force a religious institution to accept individuals contrary to its religious tenets. I will leave it to people other than you to poskin whether a transgender person is in the same category, al pi Halocha, as a gay person.

....Saying that the Constitution is not "up to" (you mean subject to) interpretation exhibits a complete, laughable and fundamental ignorance of American jurisprudence...

...and yes, Korn's Bakery is a "market place" open to the public...unless Constitutional interpretation changes materially (get that Archie, Constitutional interpretation), it cannot discriminate among whom it serves.

I should go back to ignoring you, as you are a hopelessly ignorant bigot.

Read comment 84...oh Uneducated Archie

87

 Jun 30, 2017 at 10:12 AM yonasonw Says:

Reply to #84  
Anonymous Says:

The ignorance in these comments is unbelievable. Guess what? I'm not Jewish and I was able to create an account to try to understand the Jewish side to this story. This is bigotry at its worst. How would you like it if I owned a gas station and refused YOU service because it's against my beliefs to serve a vehicle containing women covering their hair? It is the same principle as refusing to bake a cake for a wedding.

I won't continue because you can't reason with ignorant people.

The paranoia you exhibit about being scrutinized has now become a reality. If I, a goyiem, was able to see your comments in these articles, I'm sure I'm not the only one.

I will pray for all of you because we are all God's children.

Well said

88

 Jun 30, 2017 at 12:14 PM RobertS Says:

Reply to #81  
Anonymous Says:

Leased cares do not have to be repaired. Most take out a 5,000 waiver. Its true you end up with nothing at the end of your lease. But if you took all expenses paid including the initial expenses plus Monthly maintenance for a car you drive for 10 years and lumped that into monthy payments, I doubt it will come out to much less than 130 a month. If less only slightly less. I disagree with the "impress neighboors" narrative.

FYI, I lease and its not because I give a hoot about neighbors.

Repairs and maintenance are not free? Terms are specific for individual contracts, but market forces make sure on average over long term, covered maintenance and repairs are factored into lease cost. Explicit "waiver" of repairs is either extra cost or factored in. Leasing companies aren't out to do you a favor; they intend to make as much profit as they can. Dealers and auto makers like leasing because lower monthly payments allows selling bigger, more profitable cars ("With leasing, you get more car for same monthly payment" is the common pitch, but you still wind up with no equity and needing another car). If the car is recovered/salvaged and totaled after theft or accident, you can be liable for diminished value (extra cost to you either direct or as "gap insurance premium). Leasing can be a useful option if you want/need to drive a new car every few years, and will keep the car for the agreed term (early lease termination results in extra fees usually), and you can stay within the agreed mileage limits (higher mileage limits aren't free either, even if not explicitly stated... also factored into total least cost). Finance experts repeatedly say leasing is rarely cheaper.

89

 Jun 30, 2017 at 12:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #79  
Anonymous Says:

And so are mini van purcahses. If you have 10 kids you won't find a decent van for under 15k. So yes leases are more expensive but so are the costs of owning a mini van more expensive.

Well maintained cars and vans can last for 10 years easily. My last two cars I owned and drove for 12 and 14 years. If you lease for 6 or 7 years, you have zero equity at the end of the lease and still need to drive a vehicle. But buy and drive for at least 10 years, and you get at least 3 years of no payments. The MMP (minimum monthly payment) mentality is why so many people spend more than they should in the long term, have too much debt, and so little savings. Of course, sitting and learning all day on someone else's dime doesn't help either.

90

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