New York – During the past couple of weeks, the local Jewish newspaper in Bergen County has printed two very well-written and articulate op-ed pieces advocating that the Orthodox community consider some form of public-school education as a solution to the “tuition crisis.” Whether or not a person agrees with this idea, one has to sympathize with its origin. The typical Orthodox family is drowning under the ever-increasing cost of educating our children in the yeshiva day-school system.
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There are some who have the misconception that the tuition crisis is a result of the current economic crisis. Nothing could be further from the truth! While there is no doubt that the recent economic turmoil has brought the issue to the forefront, and there will be some more immediate ramifications, this is a problem that is decades in the making.
The reality is that families in our community have to earn extremely high incomes just to live a relatively modest lifestyle in conjunction with paying their yeshiva tuition bills in full. A family with three or four children will have an annual tuition bill of anywhere from $40,000 to $70,000, depending on the choice of school and the ages of the children—not to mention the cost of summer camp, which is often a necessity when both parents work. This is all “after-tax” money and results in the absurdity of a family with an income of $200,000 (or more) being hard-pressed to meet their tuition obligations without seeking scholarship assistance or relying on help from grandparents.
According to the U.S. Census 2006 Economic Survey (the most recent year for which income data is available), roughly 3.5 percent of American households had income exceeding $200,000. That translates into only about 1 in every 29 families earning an income high enough to allow them to shoulder the tuition burden of the typical Jewish family. Many families would have to earn well in excess of that, depending on their situation (larger families, special-needs cases). Clearly, a system that requires all (or most) of its participants to be in the top few percent of income earners is not one that is sustainable in the long run.
Luckily, our community is blessed with a much higher percentage of families who are in that top 3.5 percent. But it is far from smooth sailing for these families. The reality is that most of these families are under extreme pressure to continue making the “big bucks” just to keep their heads above water. A place among the top income earners often requires the sacrifice of hours better spent at home with the family, the pursuit of riskier and more demanding professions, and forgoing attention to spiritual and personal health. Relationships between husbands and wives are strained, and children sorely miss quality time with their parents. Many families live “paycheck to paycheck” and are not able to save for unforeseen emergencies, family s’machos, college education, and retirement.
Additionally, we’ve all heard the joke that goes something like, “What’s the Jewish form of birth control? Yeshiva tuition!” The reality is that many families are having fewer children than originally planned, and younger couples openly discuss postponing childbearing until they can “afford it.” It is unfathomable that such an outcome is in the spirit of the Torah, whose very first mitzvah is to be fruitful and multiply.
Simply put, the model we have for funding yeshiva education is broken. It is a problem we’ve ignored for too long and one we can’t afford to turn a blind eye to any longer. I admit that it is much easier to articulate the problem than it is to find a solution. In order to ease the burden on parents, we will have to either find new sources of revenue (other than tuition), cut costs, or some combination of the two. There are many good ideas that have been suggested, but the odds are that multiple avenues will have to be pursued to find a solution. I believe that there are three broad areas that need to be examined.
Firstly, and perhaps most importantly, we need to shift the financial burden of educating our children from a parental one to a communal one. In order to accomplish this, we will need our rabbinic and lay leadership to be in the forefront of moving us in that direction. They must pursue a rigorous re-education of the community in the primacy of supporting our yeshivas, and they must take a leadership role in designing and implementing specific programs to accomplish this. One area to be focused on is re-prioritizing our tzedakah dollars toward local causes, especially our yeshivas. This is not only our responsibility as a community, but is mandated by halachah, which obligates us to prioritize local needs. In order to convince people to give more of their charity to our yeshivas, the rabbis have to take a leadership role in educating the general population that the funding of our schools needs to be a priority for everyone, whether or not they have school-age children.
Secondly, the schools themselves have an obligation to reexamine their cost structures. There are some in our community who believe that our yeshiva day schools operate in a wasteful manner and there is much “fat” that can be cut from operating budgets. My experience as a board member of one of our local yeshivas has taught me that quite the opposite is true. As a general rule they run extremely lean and are very conscious of every dollar spent, knowing that the financial burden on parents is already overwhelming. The reality remains that tuition costs have roughly doubled (in inflation-adjusted dollars) over the past 25 years. Many services that were considered luxuries a generation ago are now considered necessities. I don’t think that anyone believes that our teachers are overpaid, and their salaries and benefits represent 80 to 85 percent of a school’s budget. Much of the other 15 to 20 percent of costs are fixed in nature (mortgage, utilities, etc). In order to make a real dent in the cost structures of our schools, we will have to reexamine some of the core frameworks we take for granted.
Lastly, we as a community must seriously examine other spending that contributes indirectly (and sometimes directly) to our inability to properly fund our yeshivas. It will be difficult to convince potential donors that there is a crisis when they observe evidence of plenty, including the extravagance of our s’machos, the homes we live in, the cars we drive, and numerous other outward displays of affluence. Perhaps it’s time to reconsider our priorities in our spending habits. Surely our rabbis can help guide us in this area of our lives, as well.
Every generation has a defining challenge. A couple of generations ago, it was Shabbos observance in an era of “If you don’t come to work on Saturday, don’t bother showing up on Monday.” Today, the “tuition crisis” is our defining issue. If we want to pass on our glorious heritage to the next generation, we simply must find a way to ensure the long-term viability of those institutions charged with educating the next generation of Jews. The consequences of failing are simply too frightening to consider.
Gershon Distenfeld lives in Bergenfield, N.J., and is a member of the executive board of the Rosenbaum Yeshiva of North Jersey in River Edge.
A little bit of emunah & bitachon will go a long way to cure all ill
Add college at $30,000 -40,000 per child, bar mitzvas, gifts and weddings.
After you bring a boy and a girl to the world than its not a real “mitzvah” to have more!
Vouchers.
A big rabbi told me that he is afraid to say the truth, that after having a boy and a girl, you are permitted to have more only you are “capable”.
Rashi says in machchti bitzah that to have more than tow kids is even only a little mitzvah, nobody has the courage to say the truth!!!!!!!!
we need our elected officials to give understanding to the government or state to give some funds for religous children who cannot go oto public schools, also that every jewish child should get at least half of the money as what it would have costed the state if they went to public school, can somebody do something?
I never thought I would ever hear my husband saying that maybe our children don’t need to finish high school. “Let them finish off in community college” because the tuition is KILLING US!!! In my house the “birth control” is not a joke but a reality. I know of many other families in the same situation. We cover it with other reasons but I know it isn’t so. Financial hardships has been around for the past decade but with access to credit cards people have been able to cover it up. It is unfortunate that this financial crisis had torn the facade of “everything is okay – lets charge as much as we can” down.
I have a strong feeling that if things continue the way they are my children will not be in yeshivot next year. I have no problem with that because I have a strong feeling that there will be other frum children in class with my kids and I have complete FAITH that my children will be okay. I am even looking into homeschooling them if necessary. One thing I know fore sure is that the financial strain of yeshiva will be lifted and hopefully make the house less stressfull
One way to deal with the problem is to consolidate schools. Unfortunately, every Rebbe believes he should be the Rosh Yeshiva so we need to have loads of schools catering to small numbers of students. All of those have rediculous amounts of overhead. Chas V’sholom we should have some achdus and reduce the number of schools to a few larger ones where there can be some serious economies of scale. Of course, another way to deal with the problem is to have those who really can afford to pay (but who simply don’t want to) stop lying on their financial aid application forms.
Before I got married I was ready to have a large family , at least 8 children. Once my wife started giving birth I realized that it will be irresponsible to just keep on popping them out. I am struggling terribly. One child’s tuition alone cost me 25,000 per year. I decided that I am not going to have any more children. Why should i keep on suffering and not being able to give my children the necessary attention and education they need? I find it irresponsible when people go collecting for hachnosas kallah for families that have 14 children and the parents have no means of paying for the expenses yet they still pop em out year after year. Its mind boggling that familes with large numbers of kids have to resort to shnorrering because they did not use common sense and take into account, maybe we cannot afford it. Any one that blindly goes into life with the mantra that emunah and bitachon will cure all is plain nieve. You may as well jay walk accross a busy highway and hope that emunah and bitachon will get you accross.
who is the Posek here again please let me know im looking for him couse as far as my Torah states evry child is a mitzva and as far as I know no reliable posek will tell u not to have anymore chidrden for financile resaons couse I have a secrate for u guys there Is a halacha that actuly obligaets klal yisroel to take care of thouse kids and I know this from expirience I have spoken with many poskim and all say if it’s only a money issue there is no hetter not to have kids
All of you that say its not a mitzvah you dot kow what you are talking about
every child is a separte mitzvah and if you take birth control you are being mivatal a mitzva just like not putting on tefillen.
have emunah every child g-d gives separte money for
I’m not getting into the Halacha of how many children to have. I would just like to point out that our children are OUR responsibility to teach. Hashem gave the Torah to Avraham because he knew he would teach it to his children. The children are guarantors for the Torah and survival of Klal Yisrael. Not NY State or any other government. If we cannot afford the tuition, we need to come up with a better solution.
Yes, it is INSANE to pay after-tax dollars for tuition, especially when the state is saving 14,000 per child/year that is not in school. At the same time, we cannot expect ANY government to fund our Torah and the future of Klal Yisrael — it just is not possible, the mix is treif. We need to do our part and commit to a good solution and Hashem will help us. Torah is “nikneit be’yisurin” (acquired through hardship), so we cannot expect it to be easy.
A good start would be to clear out the Lashon Hara and Sinas Chinam (especially prevalent in comments on the news). That is the cause of much too much suffering in Klal Yisrael and the world; and the REASON we don’t have a Beit Hamikdash…Let’s realize that we’re living in an unbelievable generation where we can seriously EXPECT to see Mashiach. Let’s act like mature, responsible, ehrliche, TORAH MENTSCHEN instead of vilde chayas and maybe we will actually be zoche to see him. Otherwise, we are dooming ourselves and Chas Veshalom, our children too.
All change starts at the top. If those communities that basically insist all boys go to kollel for years and years and scarce resources are used up here, these communities won’t be able to pay for school for their kids and either thru “Jewish Birth Control” as described here will shrink instead of grow.
Any of these heilege rabbonim and poskim who say its a mitzvah or chiyuv to keep having children even if you cannot support the ones you already have should be made responsible for paying their tuition, medical and other costs…this is meshuge..if a Rav says to do so, his credentials as a leader for klar yisroel should be examined..
# 20, can I get the name and ph # of some of these poskim. I’d like to have my tuition bills sent over to them.Thanks!!
Are we turning into a chinese communist nation by following the nations of the world? less kids will allow Hashem to allot up with less parnosso. we know on Rosh Hashana Hashem grants parnosso to us according to our needs. obviously we’re not supposed to sit bak and relax coz it won’t fall from tree, we have to do our hishtadlus, so go on pru urevu and work. good luck,
We all can agree that we need to prioritize our charity and give it to the Yeshiv K’tanas. What I don’t understand is why we give so much money to BMG, Kollels etc… I feel that only the best and the brightest went to Kollel (they would come the Rabbonim, Rebbeim etc…) the community would support it. Think about it let say Reb Yankel has a married daughter who’s husband is in kollel. Reb Yankel takes upon himself to support this young family (Kol Hakvod to him if he can do this) for three years at $40000. If this young man went to work or Reb Yankel only lets say gave $10000 a year (to supplement the income) look how much money this one person has left over to give to where it’s needed. Now imagine someone is supporting multiple children. It seems most of our money are going in the direction to the same people who can make a living themselves if they choose too. And the middle class/poor person gets hurt by this.
Another problem in the frum world is the cost of living. We only have ourselves to blame. I understand why NYC would cost a lot for a home. But Lakewood? The price of a home has to come down. To those people who made a “killing” buying all the homes at a low price and then sold high, I hope you are happy now that you have “KILLED” all of those people who cannot afford a home or now has lost their home. I wonder what Hashem will do to you after 120 years!
Rabbonim = Politicians, Askonim = Lobbyists, in my opinion. Unfortunately today there are many corrupt Rabbonim and Askonim. They think what will benefit THEM and NOT the KLAL as a whole. And the Rabbonim who are legit do not have a loud enough voice to get things done.
I think it’s time the people have a louder voice. We scream that we want the Rabbonim to do this and that… We the people need a louder voice. Enough covering up abuse cases, enough from taking money from people who are not honest and cause chillul hashem.
And one more thing. If you are a Rav/Rebba please do not accept gifts like a $80000 Kos Shel Eliyahu or a $250000 silver seder table (I read this on a blog recently). When you accepts gifts like this you are saying that Money is more important. If you are “REAL” Rav/Rebba you would live your life more humbly…
there are MANY yeshivos and Bais Yaakov schools where the administration schnorrs money and makes dinners to support their “mosad of tzedokkah.” Where is the public accounting of these schools? Do they open up their books and financial records to the parents and public that they incessantly shnorr money from ? Tomchei Shabbos and Bikur Cholim do!! What i find interesting is that they give LOTS of jobs to THEIR daughters, sons in law, even grandchildren without any regard to job applicant qualifications!! They should also STOP preaching to their students that the ONLY way is to stay in Kolell forever, then make dinners honoring the alumni who are doctors, lawyers, etc
we need to have Yeshivos online. 1 excellent teacher for thousands of students, with young single ad teachers to help students and supervise them in their local places
In response to all those that say that money problems is not a heter for contraception, let’s think about what the effects of those money problems are: Shalom Bayis, between spouses and children! So any discussion with a Rov needs to take those issues into account, and unless you bitachon is so great to overcome that stress, I’d guess the Shalom Bayis effects of money problems DOES create a heter.
The solution lies in giving all your maaser money to the yeshivos! Stop sending overseas and to places that don’t relate to “Aniyey Ircha”! Tuition sometimes DOESN’T EVEN COVER THE COST OF YOUR OWN CHILD!!! Fundraisers are also part of yeshiva budgets, the reality is that if public schools spend close to 10-12k per child, the yeshiva costs per child are in excess of that. Unless you are paying that much, you need to consider adding to your tuition… out of maaser!
This topic should be pinned, many of us are struggling now to pay day by day expenses, yeshivas, kosher food etc. our parents had it much easier (bills wise) maybe 10% of the last two generations own a home, this is no way to continue, we all need to be able to retire peacefully without falling a burden on the children.
I don’t see tuition should be sO Expensive.
maybe $6,000 camp included.
In my work I see more and more orthodox families simply unable to meet tuition — the current system can’t survive. The tax deductability issue is a non-starter. Public schools are hugely popular and massively under financed and there is zero support for transferring any of those limited resources to those who choose to privately educate their kids.
A core American principle is that public schools are a basic building bloc for the American idea — where people from diverse social, cultural and economic backgrounds forge a common purpose and learn a common curriculum. It may be time to realize that the vast majority of public schools offer an excellent, non-discriminatory education, and because of the first amendment, unlike in Europe, are non-religious.
Maybe we’ve made a fundamental error with our focus on what maybe an unsustainable parallel system of day schools and yeshivot. Perhaps we should start looking at a new kind of structure where we can utilize the value and the low cost of the public system without surrendering our commitment to limmudie kodesh.
i think that all of you are missing some thing very important. your child is our most important asset. and just like any other asset it needs some time and money so do your kids.there is a differant crisis that would “help” with the money crunch . it is the cost of buying a house or for that matter renting a place. this crissis IS our own fault and there is no end .unless we re willing to not move in only the middle of borpark/flat/willi etc.. this would really help us monitery wise right off the bat.stop charging or we move. here are many great polaces out of ny that are very cheap to live . think any place other then ny and you will see im right this from a boroparker
you can have two children that give you the medical bills and “tzar gidul bonim” equivalent to eight kids. You don’t necessarily save anything by going on the pill. If it effects the mental health of the women or if the parnassah burden weighs so havily on the household that the day-to-day upbeatness of a jewish home is put into jeoperdy then a heter may be found but just because it puts the squeeze is no reason. hashem has ways to show you that you will not save money. imagine having one ill child child and somehow being forced to collect in the streets a half a million bucks to keep his little heart pumping. dont mess with god!!!
Yeshivos, IMO, should not be privately owned, but community-run and community-supported institutions. The books should be entirely open to all, and major administrative decisions should be open to vote by the parent body.
That way, if Yeshivos are, indeed, cutting every corner to relieve financial burden, parents paying tuition will be able to see it at the very least.
If, on the other hand, Yeshiva money is being unwisely squandered in bad investments, used to overbuy real estate or spent on only certain last name’s Kollel income (coughBMGcough) the community at large would be aware of it, as well.
Its unreal to see what people write about this subject while I was and many people that have a problem with infitility know that everything is min hashmayim and if hashem made that you should be able to have children natural is the biggest nes possible and there should be people that would take something to stop it from happening
you live in this would 120 years but its all a hallway from the olam haemes
I would like to end off with this very nice story I heard from someone when his wife was going into labor for the 15 time the doctor said I think you should start taking birth control so she said she will think about it anyways when she came back for the 16 child she broght along a chasuna picture that she took of the whole family and showed it to the doctor and asked the doctor tell me WHICH KID SHOULD OF I NOT HAD……….
i still havent seen or heard one yeshiva announce a reduction in non essential staff what are they doing to help? dinners in fancy halls. three assistant principals its about time they did more with less
Does someone realize that by the world war their wasn’t any rabbi allowing to stop having kids, and we all need to agree that it was lot harder then $, what a level we have all come to, that for a little $ we get out of control, do you really think that you’re in control isn’t their enough tzoras around to start believe that we only need to follow and not to be creative, just follow your parents foot steps and you’ll a’h be matzlich
i read all the comments and am bewildred – not one mentions a solution that many wise families, including myself, have found and are perfectly happy with – MOVE TO ERETZ ISROEL! if you sell your million dollar decoarated-cardboard houses in the states and buy a normal apartment in yerushalaim, bet shemesh, beitar, ashdod, etc, you’ll have plenty of money left to live a peaceful, winter-less, frum life with kids in any yeshiva you wish, costing a fraction of what you’re paying in the goldene medina…. you don’t need two cars, SUVs, land-tax is low, great, tasty kosher food is abundant and inexpensive, separate beaches on the mediterranian coast, europe – few hours away. after 9/11 the security argument is mute… chaval for ye all wasting life over there…
I want to thank all of the ones who posted sensible comments. This proves my point, which I have posted on similar topics, that this is a communal problem.
1) Consolidation of of yeshivot. Great idea. While I am not Chassidishe, is it so so wrong if various Chassidic movements band together and have a rav from each movement? This way no one gets slightled. So while your minhagim are slightly different, you are still praying to the same G-D.
2) Vouchers – the yeshivot will just raise the price based on what you received. So you’re at the same place again.
3) Charter schools are an outstanding idea too. You can end at 3 PM just like the public schools and then the kids can be taught limudei kodesh at other locations. It would be much less expensive, even factoring in room rental and salaries. I’m sure there are enough melameds, Chabad Shiluchim, rabbinical students, seminary graduates etc., who wouldn’t mind 3 to 4 hours on Monday to Thursday to teach. I’m also sure various shuls and JCCs wouldn’t mind some extra money on rent.
4) The online concept that someone suggested is interesting. My wife is getting another masters through this format. While she is more disciplined than the average junior high or high school student, you can have one ‘proctor’ make sure the kids are following along, and a rebbe or morah lecturing from another location. Webcams have come along way.
5) Public School. I know this is the last choice, but depending on your neighborhood it may be safe. If you have a strict background, you can do well. I spent my last two years in my local public high school. There were plenty of ethnic group who did not get swayed. The person who suggested finishing high school at community college is on to something.
There is a halacha that in a time of famine it is assur to have children. The definition of famine is that the price of grain doubles. The price of grain has more than tripled, but I’m not sure that in today’s day that definition holds. Only a posek can decide.
In our case, we would be able to ave more children if we took a pill to do so. We choose not to, as we cannot afford more. The tuition committees are extremely tough, and we are beyond our limit. That’s their job – to push you beyond your limit. Yet we are not allowed to ask why they need such a large administration for suhc a small student body! The school has a principal:student ratio that equals the teacher:student ratio in most secular schools! In this economy, that’s just uncalled for.
We are under no halachik obligation to go out of our way for more children, and we are grateful for the ones we have. But we will not be having more.
I am going to say something that I have been waiting to hear, but no-one has said it yet. My children are older-in their twenties and late teens. For years and years we struggled to pay tuitiions. We earned around between $65,000 $130,000 a year with very little change in the 25 or so years that we’ve put our children through school. While we were earning that income, the rest of the community were earning more and more. The standard of living became decided by the upper middle class of Orthodox Jewry, with the rest of us, who were earning respectable but comparatively low incomes, doing very admirable jobs (teaching, social work, and such) were struggling to keep up. And the keeping up was ot with the vacations, fancy cars or nice houses. The keeping up was with tuition, Shul dues and one month of camp for the children. My children have NEVER been to Disneyland, California, the Bermuda’s etc. We have never gone away for Pesach. We don’t visit Israel. And we have always sent our children to Yeshiva, at GREAT financial and emotional cost to us. Now that the upper middle class is suffering, and only NOW, is there a so-called a tuition crisis. Guess what? There has been a tuition crisis all along for many of us, but since it didn’t affect the people who were setting the standards, it didn’t matter. NOW IT MATTERS? Because you can’t go to Florida for Pesach? Because you have to curtail your spending? Because your 7 year old children will have to stay home for mid-winter break? I think this is the ultimate in arrogance and selfinshness by the Orthodox community. We, or really I should say you, did this to yourself? Why do children need schools with marble floors? Camps with air conditioning? Vacations to Islands that I as an adult have never even been to? Clothes with ridiculous labels? I think you should all look at yourselves, be reflective, and realize that really you have created this monster, that was very much a monster for many of us for many years.
Personal Experience
I had 1 child is struggled but B”H survived, now up to seven ke”h struggling and b”h surviving, it’s hashem who wants me to struggle and survive with one child or seven children, i thank hashem everyday that they are our whole family is healthy and they are good kids. even if it’s hard, but this world was not meant to enjoy – Adam l’amal yilod – In gan eiden we will be rewarded for our hard work of bringing up yidishe kinder for hashem.
Now to all those big mouths here, they should know that hashem gives parnassah, and it’s as easy for him to provide the necessities for a 4 person family than for 12 person family, and a s long as you live with amunah and doing all mitzvas hashem – BIG OR SMALL ALIKE – you’re safe. “SHOMEIR MITZVAH LOY YEIDU DAVAR RAH”
Can all of you guys who are saying that contraception will save this whole situation please look at statistic first be for you come out and say this is the way to save the world.
Statistic shows the mega rich or on contraception although they can afford to have children but they choose not to for other reason and they don’t give more charity to compensate for not having more children and still they don’t have happier life
Then look at statistic of a average size family they are not on contraception and they are much more happier family and they are the people who give nice charity.
So to come out to say every one should know in advance if they can afford to have children if not take contraception.
Will this same person say if he wins the lottery he will have as many children he can have as he can afford for all the extras what it will cost him to have kids every year.
and the list can go on ,but I really don’t believe all of you don’t think deep in there heart what you writing most of you have other issues whats keeping you back of having children and for that reason I will wish all yiddshe mamas should have they strength to have as many children they truly want and hashem should send them every think what they need with it
Why won’t the govt make tuition at least tax Deductable if not vouchers to outright cover the cost.
how can you put a price tag on yiddisher kinder? G-d Helps!
I wish we could have a posek on VIN news who could guide us in the right direction.
Tuition assistance is available to most anyone who applies.
the yidden are always the ones who ”think” . if they cant afford , they dont do.
look at that woman who had the 8 babies in addition the the 6 she already has. she could care less about $$. she knows she wont have to work. she will get mroe benefits now coz she had octuplets.
our tax dollars at work
FEH!
you talk about how your kids are in private school yet ur on welfare and medicare.goyim shouldn’t have to pay because ur wife wangs the f-ing ten tribes
don’t buy 2- cares , don’t buy expensive dreses
Amram ben Levi was totally right to separate from his wife after they had only 2 kids! If he only read VIN he would have never listened to his yenta daughter!
This is really a very difficult problem for young people today. I don’t think our young couples can afford tuitions at all. With so few of our frum couples today striving to get educations, most of them are commanding very low salaries. How can they even afford the basics such as rent, food, utilities, and simple clothing. After taxes how would there even be enough money for one tuition let alone several. The burden is overwhelming and could lead to terrible sholom bayis problems and children going off the derech because they will grow up in homes where the parents are either depressed and/or always fighting. I think young people need to be honest with themselves and realize that those who do not have a future in Klai Kodesh or Chinuch should prepare themselves for a future by developing skills such as plumbing, electricity, or for those who hopefully learned basic reading and math skills in Mesivta to pursue college degrees in “kosher” colleges such as Touro. To have mothers kill themselves and have parnossah depend on them we will have a dysfunctional generation raised by at best babysitters who probably couldn’t care less about them, or gentiles who can do them a lot of harm. It’s time we take a good look at ourselves and deal honestly with the situation. If prepared people’s incomes still can’t cover the high cost of tuitions, we may have to go back to home schooling where Rebbeim are hired to teach in people’s homes to cut back on building costs and mothers or fathers with some education teach the children secular studies. I don’t see how it’s possible for young families today to even pay for one kid’s tuition. Does everyone want to watch the grandparents have coronaries trying to foot all the bills for their grandchildren?
#36 , your last paragraph was so right on, but don’t expect it to happen. We don’t have Gedolim like Reb Moshe ZT’L who wouldn’t even DREAM of accepting such gashmiyus.
And another thing; Why are the ones defending having so many kids the ones who spell so atrociously?
im yirtze Hashem mashiach will come and every thing back to normal. Now almost all of you are busy talking about money. money, money, money. me? I have bitachon in Hashem [I hope I`m not being gaavadik]
I am the author of the piece that started this discussion. I think that many of you missed my point. Regardless of whether you think that halachickly (or otherwise), people should limit the number of they children they have, the reality is that many are already having less children than they otherwise would and that is certainly a less than desirable outcome. We need our community leaders (both lay and Rabbinic) to get their heads together and address this head on because if we don’t, our Yeshivas won’t last more than another one or two generations. Some might say that I have a lack of emunah but H”KBH asks us to do our hishtadlus “al pi derech hatevah” and we are shirking our responsibilities by burying our heads in the sand and relying on a “bailout”.
Everyone talking about how many children tom have and their seemingly “cheshbon tzedek” and their “good reasons” are forgetting the world was not born yesterday.
Yidden always had a lot of children many generations ago and money didn’;t grow on tress back then any more than now.
We are much richer financially today that our great grandparents many generations ago who also had 10 to 20 children.
It’s a question of our spending habits and our PRIORITIES.
Our great grandparents were HAPPY when they had 15 children and very simple Bread and Butter to eat and no car and no fancy house and no car.
Today we are NOT HAPPY when we have 1/2 as many children, because we need the fancy chandelier and we need to 2 cars and a fancy house and LUXURY in everything (expert not in children).
Our great grand parents were HAPPY to marry off 15 children with a MINYAN or tow minyanim or with 2 or 4 minyanim of people for the catered meal.
We are so foolish that we prefer to have only 1 or tow or 3 or 4 children but because we must show our neighbor that we are rich so we spend 50 thousand to 75 thousand on a a wedding for the FEW children and we have to buy them each a Million dollar home to live in, outfitted with all luxury furnishings and WE REMAIN SAD at that.
Our Great Grandparents didn’t spend $50 thousand per wedding and didn’t purchase a million dollar home for each and they married off that way 15 children and were HAPPY.
We have more Gashmuis and less Ruchnius and we are SAD – while they were HAPPY with their 15 children and “no money”.
What is really important in life?
By the time you are 90 years old, will it be your millions that will make you happy or your children?
After you are 120 years old, what do you leave behind in this world? money or Children.
Will your millions visit you in a nursing home or will your children do that?
Will your millions say Kadish for you? Or will your children care for you?
Money per say does not make people happy (Ohev Kesef Loy Yisbah Kesef and Ein Adam Mes Vechatzi Taavoso Beyodo – this means simply that no matter how much money you have you will always be SAD because you will always want MORE.
True EMES Nachas is ONLY form Children and the more children you have the MORE Nachas and the more TRUE riches you will have.
The One who commanded p’ru u’r’vu also promises for each child. Yes, it might require perseverance and perhaps a struggle. Granted we might have to forego certain niceties but isn’t this just another way of saying that we need to reorient our priorities. A man’s (and woman’s) true wealth is the Yiddishe nachas one has from his children and children’s children…