“ A little bit of emunah & bitachon will go a long way to cure all ill ”

“ A little bit of emunah & bitachon will go a long way to cure all ill ”

“ A little bit of emunah & bitachon will go a long way to cure all ill ”

“ A little bit of emunah & bitachon will go a long way to cure all ill ”

“ Rashi says in machchti bitzah that to have more than tow kids is even only a little mitzvah, nobody has the courage to say the truth!!!!!!!! ”

“ After you bring a boy and a girl to the world than its not a real "mitzvah" to have more! ”

“ Your comment is an embaressment to yidden, both frumme and otherwise. We should not rely on others so we can just mindlessly have children with no feeling that we have the responsibility to pay for them. Hashem did not say just go out and have as many babies as you physically can with no concern for the consequences. ”

“ we need our elected officials to give understanding to the government or state to give some funds for religous children who cannot go oto public schools, also that every jewish child should get at least half of the money as what it would have costed the state if they went to public school, can somebody do something? ”

“ i didnt write the first comment. However, i have a question for you. When you go to the Bais Medresh, and start to davan, do you really think you KNOW how much money you’ll make today? Do you think you might have an idea how many sales you’ll make this week? Do you think you have control over ANYTHING??????
Hopefully the answer is no.
”

“ who is the Posek here again please let me know im looking for him couse as far as my Torah states evry child is a mitzva and as far as I know no reliable posek will tell u not to have anymore chidrden for financile resaons couse I have a secrate for u guys there Is a halacha that actuly obligaets klal yisroel to take care of thouse kids and I know this from expirience I have spoken with many poskim and all say if it's only a money issue there is no hetter not to have kids ”

“ Such is explicitly prohibited by the New York State Constitution. An attempt was made to change it in the 1960s, but it failed. (Anyone remember why?)

In any case there isn't much support in the US for giving taxpayer funding to private schools. Every time such an idea has faced a voter referendum, it has lost, ususually by huge margins.
”

“ A little bit of emunah & bitachon will go a long way to cure all ill ”

“ This topic should be pinned, many of us are struggling now to pay day by day expenses, yeshivas, kosher food etc. our parents had it much easier (bills wise) maybe 10% of the last two generations own a home, this is no way to continue, we all need to be able to retire peacefully without falling a burden on the children. ”

“ After you bring a boy and a girl to the world than its not a real "mitzvah" to have more! ”

“ who is the Posek here again please let me know im looking for him couse as far as my Torah states evry child is a mitzva and as far as I know no reliable posek will tell u not to have anymore chidrden for financile resaons couse I have a secrate for u guys there Is a halacha that actuly obligaets klal yisroel to take care of thouse kids and I know this from expirience I have spoken with many poskim and all say if it's only a money issue there is no hetter not to have kids ”

“ who is the Posek here again please let me know im looking for him couse as far as my Torah states evry child is a mitzva and as far as I know no reliable posek will tell u not to have anymore chidrden for financile resaons couse I have a secrate for u guys there Is a halacha that actuly obligaets klal yisroel to take care of thouse kids and I know this from expirience I have spoken with many poskim and all say if it's only a money issue there is no hetter not to have kids ”

“ Add college at $30,000 -40,000 per child, bar mitzvas, gifts and weddings. ”

“ i think that all of you are missing some thing very important. your child is our most important asset. and just like any other asset it needs some time and money so do your kids.there is a differant crisis that would "help" with the money crunch . it is the cost of buying a house or for that matter renting a place. this crissis IS our own fault and there is no end .unless we re willing to not move in only the middle of borpark/flat/willi etc.. this would really help us monitery wise right off the bat.stop charging or we move. here are many great polaces out of ny that are very cheap to live . think any place other then ny and you will see im right this from a boroparker ”

“ I am glad you mentioned Bar Mitzvas and weddings. If people would stop spending extravagantly on Bar Mitzvas and weddings, people would have more money for themselves and for poor people and needy institutions, such as Yeshivas.
Gedolei Torah have issued Issurim against such extravagance (this was a subject of an article in Hamodia a couple of weeks ago), yet this outrage continues.
People are machmir on all kinds of things, including Shtusim, but continue to defy our Gedolim when it comes to extravagant Simchas.
It reminds me of a story about the Kotzker Rebbe. Someone once remarked to the Rebbe how wonderful it was that so many people are careful to abide by the Tzavo'o of Rabeinui Yehuda Hachosid. The Kotzker, never impressed by such things (Kedarko Bakodesh) said, "it's a shame that Rabeinui Yehuda Hachosid did not put the Aseres Hadibros into his Tzavo'o. ”

“ A little bit of emunah & bitachon will go a long way to cure all ill ”

“ All change starts at the top. If those communities that basically insist all boys go to kollel for years and years and scarce resources are used up here, these communities won't be able to pay for school for their kids and either thru "Jewish Birth Control" as described here will shrink instead of grow. ”

“ I don't see tuition should be sO Expensive.
maybe $6,000 camp included. ”

“ Its unreal to see what people write about this subject while I was and many people that have a problem with infitility know that everything is min hashmayim and if hashem made that you should be able to have children natural is the biggest nes possible and there should be people that would take something to stop it from happening
you live in this would 120 years but its all a hallway from the olam haemes
I would like to end off with this very nice story I heard from someone when his wife was going into labor for the 15 time the doctor said I think you should start taking birth control so she said she will think about it anyways when she came back for the 16 child she broght along a chasuna picture that she took of the whole family and showed it to the doctor and asked the doctor tell me WHICH KID SHOULD OF I NOT HAD.......... ”

“ WHAT IS NOT A "REAL" MITZVA ??? היו לו בנים בילדותו (וכבר קיים מצוות פריה ורביה), יהיו לו בנים בזקנותו. שנאמר: בבוקר זרע את זרעך, ולערב אל תנח ידך, כי אינך יודע אי זה יכשר, הזה או זה, ואם שניהם כאחד טובים"
יבמות סב

ועי' בגמרא יבמות סא דדרש הפסוק לא תוהו בראה לשבת יצרה ”

“ Its unreal to see what people write about this subject while I was and many people that have a problem with infitility know that everything is min hashmayim and if hashem made that you should be able to have children natural is the biggest nes possible and there should be people that would take something to stop it from happening
you live in this would 120 years but its all a hallway from the olam haemes
I would like to end off with this very nice story I heard from someone when his wife was going into labor for the 15 time the doctor said I think you should start taking birth control so she said she will think about it anyways when she came back for the 16 child she broght along a chasuna picture that she took of the whole family and showed it to the doctor and asked the doctor tell me WHICH KID SHOULD OF I NOT HAD.......... ”

“ I'm not getting into the Halacha of how many children to have. I would just like to point out that our children are OUR responsibility to teach. Hashem gave the Torah to Avraham because he knew he would teach it to his children. The children are guarantors for the Torah and survival of Klal Yisrael. Not NY State or any other government. If we cannot afford the tuition, we need to come up with a better solution.

Yes, it is INSANE to pay after-tax dollars for tuition, especially when the state is saving 14,000 per child/year that is not in school. At the same time, we cannot expect ANY government to fund our Torah and the future of Klal Yisrael -- it just is not possible, the mix is treif. We need to do our part and commit to a good solution and Hashem will help us. Torah is "nikneit be'yisurin" (acquired through hardship), so we cannot expect it to be easy.

A good start would be to clear out the Lashon Hara and Sinas Chinam (especially prevalent in comments on the news). That is the cause of much too much suffering in Klal Yisrael and the world; and the REASON we don't have a Beit Hamikdash...Let's realize that we're living in an unbelievable generation where we can seriously EXPECT to see Mashiach. Let's act like mature, responsible, ehrliche, TORAH MENTSCHEN instead of vilde chayas and maybe we will actually be zoche to see him. Otherwise, we are dooming ourselves and Chas Veshalom, our children too. ”

“ you can have two children that give you the medical bills and "tzar gidul bonim" equivalent to eight kids. You don't necessarily save anything by going on the pill. If it effects the mental health of the women or if the parnassah burden weighs so havily on the household that the day-to-day upbeatness of a jewish home is put into jeoperdy then a heter may be found but just because it puts the squeeze is no reason. hashem has ways to show you that you will not save money. imagine having one ill child child and somehow being forced to collect in the streets a half a million bucks to keep his little heart pumping. dont mess with god!!! ”

“ All of you that say its not a mitzvah you dot kow what you are talking about
every child is a separte mitzvah and if you take birth control you are being mivatal a mitzva just like not putting on tefillen.
have emunah every child g-d gives separte money for ”

“ What country do you live in? ”

“ Rashi also says that we cannot chose between mitzvas, as to which is bigger and more important then others.
It is a mitzva to have more then "tow". ”

“ Look please in rashi bitzah daf 27 it's a "ktzas mitzva" so in other wards only if you are capable!!!! ”

“ Look please in rashi bitzah daf 27 it's a "ktzas mitzva" so in other wards only if you are capable!!!! ”

“ A little bit of emunah & bitachon will go a long way to cure all ill ”

“ I disagree. Change can and does start at the bottom. It's called grass roots and it's usually most effective and long-lasting because there is no coersion or control involved. Rather, self determination. In theory, it's nice to say that contributing to yeshivos and beis yaakovs should be seen as everyone's responsibility. But look at what's going on in our schools today: elitism, twisting of Torah values, lasting emotional harm to our children (not to mention abuse), and on and on. Who should want to contribute to that?! Our system is broken. Better find an alternative solution than try to fix this one. It's too little, too late.

I think co-operative home schooling is a great idea, kind of like the round-robin playgroups some mothers have going. Get a group of 5-10 moms with children about the same ages and each should teach a subject or three, on a rotating basis. No tuition. No salaries. Almost no overhead except the cost of books, supplies and field trips. The beauty is you get to pass on the chinuch YOU want your children to have, and the syllabus is tailored to the individual kids. ”

“ i read all the comments and am bewildred - not one mentions a solution that many wise families, including myself, have found and are perfectly happy with - MOVE TO ERETZ ISROEL! if you sell your million dollar decoarated-cardboard houses in the states and buy a normal apartment in yerushalaim, bet shemesh, beitar, ashdod, etc, you'll have plenty of money left to live a peaceful, winter-less, frum life with kids in any yeshiva you wish, costing a fraction of what you're paying in the goldene medina.... you don't need two cars, SUVs, land-tax is low, great, tasty kosher food is abundant and inexpensive, separate beaches on the mediterranian coast, europe - few hours away. after 9/11 the security argument is mute... chaval for ye all wasting life over there... ”

“ I am glad you mentioned Bar Mitzvas and weddings. If people would stop spending extravagantly on Bar Mitzvas and weddings, people would have more money for themselves and for poor people and needy institutions, such as Yeshivas.
Gedolei Torah have issued Issurim against such extravagance (this was a subject of an article in Hamodia a couple of weeks ago), yet this outrage continues.
People are machmir on all kinds of things, including Shtusim, but continue to defy our Gedolim when it comes to extravagant Simchas.
It reminds me of a story about the Kotzker Rebbe. Someone once remarked to the Rebbe how wonderful it was that so many people are careful to abide by the Tzavo'o of Rabeinui Yehuda Hachosid. The Kotzker, never impressed by such things (Kedarko Bakodesh) said, "it's a shame that Rabeinui Yehuda Hachosid did not put the Aseres Hadibros into his Tzavo'o. ”

“ Look please in rashi bitzah daf 27 it's a "ktzas mitzva" so in other wards only if you are capable!!!! ”

“ I never thought I would ever hear my husband saying that maybe our children don't need to finish high school. "Let them finish off in community college" because the tuition is KILLING US!!! In my house the "birth control" is not a joke but a reality. I know of many other families in the same situation. We cover it with other reasons but I know it isn't so. Financial hardships has been around for the past decade but with access to credit cards people have been able to cover it up. It is unfortunate that this financial crisis had torn the facade of "everything is okay - lets charge as much as we can" down.
I have a strong feeling that if things continue the way they are my children will not be in yeshivot next year. I have no problem with that because I have a strong feeling that there will be other frum children in class with my kids and I have complete FAITH that my children will be okay. I am even looking into homeschooling them if necessary. One thing I know fore sure is that the financial strain of yeshiva will be lifted and hopefully make the house less stressfull ”

“ I am going to say something that I have been waiting to hear, but no-one has said it yet. My children are older-in their twenties and late teens. For years and years we struggled to pay tuitiions. We earned around between $65,000 $130,000 a year with very little change in the 25 or so years that we've put our children through school. While we were earning that income, the rest of the community were earning more and more. The standard of living became decided by the upper middle class of Orthodox Jewry, with the rest of us, who were earning respectable but comparatively low incomes, doing very admirable jobs (teaching, social work, and such) were struggling to keep up. And the keeping up was ot with the vacations, fancy cars or nice houses. The keeping up was with tuition, Shul dues and one month of camp for the children. My children have NEVER been to Disneyland, California, the Bermuda's etc. We have never gone away for Pesach. We don't visit Israel. And we have always sent our children to Yeshiva, at GREAT financial and emotional cost to us. Now that the upper middle class is suffering, and only NOW, is there a so-called a tuition crisis. Guess what? There has been a tuition crisis all along for many of us, but since it didn't affect the people who were setting the standards, it didn't matter. NOW IT MATTERS? Because you can't go to Florida for Pesach? Because you have to curtail your spending? Because your 7 year old children will have to stay home for mid-winter break? I think this is the ultimate in arrogance and selfinshness by the Orthodox community. We, or really I should say you, did this to yourself? Why do children need schools with marble floors? Camps with air conditioning? Vacations to Islands that I as an adult have never even been to? Clothes with ridiculous labels? I think you should all look at yourselves, be reflective, and realize that really you have created this monster, that was very much a monster for many of us for many years. ”

“ Look please in rashi bitzah daf 27 it's a "ktzas mitzva" so in other wards only if you are capable!!!! ”

“ I am the author of the piece that started this discussion. I think that many of you missed my point. Regardless of whether you think that halachickly (or otherwise), people should limit the number of they children they have, the reality is that many are already having less children than they otherwise would and that is certainly a less than desirable outcome. We need our community leaders (both lay and Rabbinic) to get their heads together and address this head on because if we don't, our Yeshivas won't last more than another one or two generations. Some might say that I have a lack of emunah but H"KBH asks us to do our hishtadlus "al pi derech hatevah" and we are shirking our responsibilities by burying our heads in the sand and relying on a "bailout". ”

“ you talk about how your kids are in private school yet ur on welfare and medicare.goyim shouldn't have to pay because ur wife wangs the f-ing ten tribes ”

“ I am the author of the piece that started this discussion. I think that many of you missed my point. Regardless of whether you think that halachickly (or otherwise), people should limit the number of they children they have, the reality is that many are already having less children than they otherwise would and that is certainly a less than desirable outcome. We need our community leaders (both lay and Rabbinic) to get their heads together and address this head on because if we don't, our Yeshivas won't last more than another one or two generations. Some might say that I have a lack of emunah but H"KBH asks us to do our hishtadlus "al pi derech hatevah" and we are shirking our responsibilities by burying our heads in the sand and relying on a "bailout". ”

“ Yes, I do know. I've studied to have a profession and a parnassah...I have held my job for nearly 20 years and if I lost this job I have the intelligence and skills to find another. I don't leave everything to "emunah" and yes I do believe hashem gives us the intelligence and ability to have considerable control over our lives. ”

“ Anyone who thinks they are poor or could be poor because of the number of children are PLAIN WRONG.

The same argument was used by secular Jews in America after the war, that unless you work on Shabbos (most business is on Shabbos) then you will STARVE and go hungry. Some even tried to fool themselves and others that it was "Pikuach Nefesh" to work on Shabos, because otherwise HOW WOULD THE HAVE FOOD TO EAT?

All this conveniently "forgets" that it is non other than G-d himself who gives Parnasa and the SAME G-d who wants you to have Parnasa also wants you to have as many children as possible.

Remember there are no 2 G-d's.

It's the SAME G-d who makes you have children and feeds you.

So how ridiculous can one be to think that you are SMARTER THAN G-d?

G-d gives you children, but G-d DIDN'T DO THE FINANCIAL MATH correctly?

G-d doesn't have enough money to support the children which G-D HIMSELF ASKED YOU TO HAVE for him?

Are you CRAZY or what?

If you believe that G-d is indeed G-d (do you really?) then you know that by DEFINITION G-d is fully capable of not letting you down when you do his Mitzvos which HE ASKED US to do - namely to have as many children as possible and the more the better.

You really have to make up WHAT KIND of a G-d you believe you have?

Do you feel you have a CAPABLE G-d who can fulfill his promises to give you Parnasa when you do what he wants you to do?

Or do you feel that you have SUCH A KIND OF a G-d, that YOU are smarter than him, because he wasn't smart enough to stop you form having more children but YOU will OUTSMART HASHEM (because you feel you are smarter) to overturn Hashem ability to make you have MORE children because YOU KNOW BETTER than it's in "HASHEM'S BEST INTEREST" that you have less children?

Like Eliyahu said to Yidden Behar Hakarmel - I say to you now:

Make up your mind what type of G-d you believe in ? ? ?

Do you belive in such a Kind of G-d which YOU ARE SMARTER THAN HIM?

or

Do you belive in such a KIND of a G-d, where G-d is smarter than you?

I know I'm putting you on the spot

but it't REALLY a very simple question:

Just make up your mind what type of G-d you belive you have ”

“ i read all the comments and am bewildred - not one mentions a solution that many wise families, including myself, have found and are perfectly happy with - MOVE TO ERETZ ISROEL! if you sell your million dollar decoarated-cardboard houses in the states and buy a normal apartment in yerushalaim, bet shemesh, beitar, ashdod, etc, you'll have plenty of money left to live a peaceful, winter-less, frum life with kids in any yeshiva you wish, costing a fraction of what you're paying in the goldene medina.... you don't need two cars, SUVs, land-tax is low, great, tasty kosher food is abundant and inexpensive, separate beaches on the mediterranian coast, europe - few hours away. after 9/11 the security argument is mute... chaval for ye all wasting life over there... ”

“ Unfortunately, our Yeshiv asystem has become top heavy, not necessarily in staff, but in students. For every Kollel family, that costs the ORTHODOX community (in one way or another) $50,000 per year, 10 kids can go to Yeshiva for $5,000 less in tuition. Do we need Talmidim Chachomim, of course! Do we need Rabayim, of course! Pulpit Rabbis, of course! But not every Tom, Dick and Harry should be supported until they are thirty (or older). Someone with aptitude for the Rabbinate, train him appropriately. Someone who can be a Posek, train him accordingly, a pedagogue, train him appropriately. Someone who is going to be mediocre in Torah, should be trained to be a FRUM accountant, doctor, lawyer, mechanic, whatever. Not everyone should be perpetual sophomores!! ”

“ I am reading all the posts from the whiners who are complaining they are living in mamash poverty famine and can't afford to have more children, then I see all the ads on VIN for stone kitchens, getaway vacations, $2000 shaitels etc. This is pure YETZER HARA to think you shouldn't have more children but have money to spend on stone kitchens.

I have 9 children. It wasn't easy while they were growing up but now I'm proud of each and every one of them. My einiklach are my entire farmegen.

Hashem decides each person's parnassah on Rosh Hashanah and it doesn't matter if you have a dozen college degrees or a billion dollar hedge fund, those things can disappear overnight. ”

“ I am reading all the posts from the whiners who are complaining they are living in mamash poverty famine and can't afford to have more children, then I see all the ads on VIN for stone kitchens, getaway vacations, $2000 shaitels etc. This is pure YETZER HARA to think you shouldn't have more children but have money to spend on stone kitchens.

I have 9 children. It wasn't easy while they were growing up but now I'm proud of each and every one of them. My einiklach are my entire farmegen.

Hashem decides each person's parnassah on Rosh Hashanah and it doesn't matter if you have a dozen college degrees or a billion dollar hedge fund, those things can disappear overnight. ”

“ Rashi also says that we cannot chose between mitzvas, as to which is bigger and more important then others.
It is a mitzva to have more then "tow". ”

“ I went once to a kiddush of a freind of mine who had child #10 I said to wow how do you manage? So he told me the following story which he heard from his mother:
It happened about 40 years ago. There was a couple "balei thshuva" who lived in bnei brak after a few years in kollel & a growing family the husband went to work. Some time went past & he had it very hard financially so he went to harav Wosner if he's allowed to stop having children. The rav inquired how his wife is feeling & if she's physically & emotionally able to have more children
Then he said if its only a money issue you have to carry on having children.
After a year they had a boy & invited RAF wosner to be the sandek
6 months later the family travelled to yerushulyim for a bar mitzva on the way they had a bad accident & the family apart from the baby died
By shive rav wosner told the family the story & said if they wouldn't go ahead then nothing would be left
This is a very powerful story & I'll leave the comments for you ”

“ I want to thank all of the ones who posted sensible comments. This proves my point, which I have posted on similar topics, that this is a communal problem.

1) Consolidation of of yeshivot. Great idea. While I am not Chassidishe, is it so so wrong if various Chassidic movements band together and have a rav from each movement? This way no one gets slightled. So while your minhagim are slightly different, you are still praying to the same G-D.

2) Vouchers - the yeshivot will just raise the price based on what you received. So you're at the same place again.

3) Charter schools are an outstanding idea too. You can end at 3 PM just like the public schools and then the kids can be taught limudei kodesh at other locations. It would be much less expensive, even factoring in room rental and salaries. I'm sure there are enough melameds, Chabad Shiluchim, rabbinical students, seminary graduates etc., who wouldn't mind 3 to 4 hours on Monday to Thursday to teach. I'm also sure various shuls and JCCs wouldn't mind some extra money on rent.

4) The online concept that someone suggested is interesting. My wife is getting another masters through this format. While she is more disciplined than the average junior high or high school student, you can have one 'proctor' make sure the kids are following along, and a rebbe or morah lecturing from another location. Webcams have come along way.

5) Public School. I know this is the last choice, but depending on your neighborhood it may be safe. If you have a strict background, you can do well. I spent my last two years in my local public high school. There were plenty of ethnic group who did not get swayed. The person who suggested finishing high school at community college is on to something. ”

“ I guess many frumme yidden have a very different view of "God" than you do. When hashem "allows" so many yidden to have very large families and then decides NOT to provide them the parnassah to feed and educate them, maybe he is saying, have some self control and only have as many babies as you can afford. No, I don't believe I'm smarter than hashem; to the contrary. Hashem gave me the intelligence to know NOT to have babies I cannot afford, Obviously, you don't share that view. ”

“ While each of us has our own opinion as to Right and Wrong and More Right and More Wrong, the article stresses the idea that the younger generation is thinking along these lines. While it is a Mitzvah or not, some people might decide for themselves that they will not do ea mitzvah in their lifetime. They may not own a field in Israel, or write a Sefer Torah etc...
First you must recognize that this thought process exists and is prevalent right now. Secondly it is something that needs to be addressed by the Rabbonim. It is not OK to tell someone Just Have Bitachon. There are different levels of poverty just as there are different categories of wealth. When people are having daily panic attacks and others are hurting themselves because they can't live within a society they have grown up in, they start to formulate different ideas.

Most people on this post seem to say that these people with these crazy ideas are just that "Crazy". It is the job of all of us to find these people and squash them. Tell them if they don't have more children then they are no longer welcome in shul etc...

These are very normal people that are very afraid. They need warmth and love at this difficult time that they are living through. They are turned off by this "System" that they feel betrayed them. Go to yeshiva more yeshiva, more yeshiva, get married, more yeshiva, have babies, more yeshiva and now pay for a family and tuition too.

Before you scream at how terrible these people are for having such vulgar thoughts, Put yourself in their shoes for just one week. Go to your local hospital emergency room and see how may people ages 20-40 are coming in with Chest pain and other Stress related problems.
Just because you found a way to deal with this for yourself, doesn't mean that another Yid doesn't have this problem.
I do not have a solution to this problem, however perhaps we should spend 30 seconds longer in the beracha of Boreich Aleinu. ”

“ After you bring a boy and a girl to the world than its not a real "mitzvah" to have more! ”

“ #36, your last paragraph was so right on, but don't expect it to happen. We don't have Gedolim like Reb Moshe ZT'L who wouldn't even DREAM of accepting such gashmiyus.

And another thing; Why are the ones defending having so many kids the ones who spell so atrociously? ”

“ When our children are chassanim and kallas who tells them what to do?
The problem is that todays boys have no Rabbeim and we have zero hadracha.
do chasiddeshe yidden ask their rebbe how many kids to have?
Chassan and kallah teachers nedd their own hadracha. ”

“ The posts that I've read here basically confirm what I've posted elsewhere. Modern orthodoxy is like Judaism without G-d. The mere thought of doing without a new car... for each of your children over 16, (what would the neighbors say!) full hockey equipment for the boys, ballet, voice, and figure skating lessons for the girls, in order to be "kichol hagoyim are sivivosainu." And.... writes one poster "emunah and bitachon won't help you! Sorry, it worked for the last 4000 years, I'll stick with it. If you didn't assume the Hashem wanted you have a lexus when a ford will get you to the same place just as quickly, maybe you would have a little better cash flow. ”

“ Just another thought, I forgot to post. If you do the math, the average public school child in Ramapo (Monsey) COSTS $13,000 a year to educate. When yeshivas ask $4000-8000, it's not unreasonable. If you want to improve the situation lower taxes. How? If the East Ramapo School district would dissolve itself and hand control to neighboring Clarkstown, who manages to educate students for $8700 each, they woulf instantly save 20-30 million dollars, 15% of the annual budget. ”

“ A little bit of emunah & bitachon will go a long way to cure all ill ”

“ Just another thought, I forgot to post. If you do the math, the average public school child in Ramapo (Monsey) COSTS $13,000 a year to educate. When yeshivas ask $4000-8000, it's not unreasonable. If you want to improve the situation lower taxes. How? If the East Ramapo School district would dissolve itself and hand control to neighboring Clarkstown, who manages to educate students for $8700 each, they woulf instantly save 20-30 million dollars, 15% of the annual budget. ”

“ Yes, I do know. I've studied to have a profession and a parnassah...I have held my job for nearly 20 years and if I lost this job I have the intelligence and skills to find another. I don't leave everything to "emunah" and yes I do believe hashem gives us the intelligence and ability to have considerable control over our lives. ”

“ P.S. And if Clarkstown is able to do everything I listed for $8700 per child, then certainly the yeshivas should not be charging anything near that amount! ”

“ Before I got married I was ready to have a large family , at least 8 children. Once my wife started giving birth I realized that it will be irresponsible to just keep on popping them out. I am struggling terribly. One child's tuition alone cost me 25,000 per year. I decided that I am not going to have any more children. Why should i keep on suffering and not being able to give my children the necessary attention and education they need? I find it irresponsible when people go collecting for hachnosas kallah for families that have 14 children and the parents have no means of paying for the expenses yet they still pop em out year after year. Its mind boggling that familes with large numbers of kids have to resort to shnorrering because they did not use common sense and take into account, maybe we cannot afford it. Any one that blindly goes into life with the mantra that emunah and bitachon will cure all is plain nieve. You may as well jay walk accross a busy highway and hope that emunah and bitachon will get you accross. ”

“ if the whole klal yisruel should get together and go register their children to their local public school ii bet you the governent would pay the tuition for private schools its way cheaper. ”

“ Does someone realize that by the world war their wasn't any rabbi allowing to stop having kids, and we all need to agree that it was lot harder then $, what a level we have all come to, that for a little $ we get out of control, do you really think that you're in control isn't their enough tzoras around to start believe that we only need to follow and not to be creative, just follow your parents foot steps and you'll a'h be matzlich ”

“ The emergency rooms statistic don't support your hypotheses because there are no more frum yidden with large families in the emergency rooms that secular Jews with just one child and a dog or those who never get married and wait until 40 for their first child.

The statistics are against you that those with Bitochon are far healthier physically ”

“ I am the author of the piece that started this discussion. I think that many of you missed my point. Regardless of whether you think that halachickly (or otherwise), people should limit the number of they children they have, the reality is that many are already having less children than they otherwise would and that is certainly a less than desirable outcome. We need our community leaders (both lay and Rabbinic) to get their heads together and address this head on because if we don't, our Yeshivas won't last more than another one or two generations. Some might say that I have a lack of emunah but H"KBH asks us to do our hishtadlus "al pi derech hatevah" and we are shirking our responsibilities by burying our heads in the sand and relying on a "bailout". ”

“ Perhaps those voting don't appreciate the burden we private school attending families remove from the public school cost. What would the NYS education system do if suddenly 100,000 children would apply to their public school system? Given the choice, they would rather pay us a token amount than have us overwhelm and bankrupt their system. ”

“ One way to deal with the problem is to consolidate schools. Unfortunately, every Rebbe believes he should be the Rosh Yeshiva so we need to have loads of schools catering to small numbers of students. All of those have rediculous amounts of overhead. Chas V'sholom we should have some achdus and reduce the number of schools to a few larger ones where there can be some serious economies of scale. Of course, another way to deal with the problem is to have those who really can afford to pay (but who simply don't want to) stop lying on their financial aid application forms. ”

“ What you are saying is not correct because many people are poor in spite of the fact that they have very few or no children at all.

By your way of thinking, if you think the responsibility is on your shoulders (alone) and not on hashems shoulders, then why not advise everyone not to get married altogether in todays bad economy and uncertain times.

As long as the economy is headed downward as it still is that way, perhaps you should not have any children at all, whatsoever, (how can you bes "SURE" you can support them in the uncertain future, even if only one child) and perhaps not even get married because how can you bes sure you will be able to support your wife to the full extent you promised in the Kesubah.

And if you are already married perhaps the "responsible" thing for (someone like you) to do is to divorce your wife "quite while you are ahead" because how can you know if in the future you will be able to support her?

"Be Smart and Sensible" because "YOU" have to be in control of your uncertain future (and not Hashem, by your standards).

”

“ Wrong. The public schools don't have two kitchens, the public day is half that of yeshivas, by definition, whatever benefits a yeshiva offers, goes to twice as many teachers for the same population. The yeshivas cannot buy on the scale as the public schools, and do not get the quantity discounts of a school district. etc. Think before you post. ”

“ Wrong. The public schools don't have two kitchens, the public day is half that of yeshivas, by definition, whatever benefits a yeshiva offers, goes to twice as many teachers for the same population. The yeshivas cannot buy on the scale as the public schools, and do not get the quantity discounts of a school district. etc. Think before you post. ”

“ We all can agree that we need to prioritize our charity and give it to the Yeshiv K’tanas. What I don’t understand is why we give so much money to BMG, Kollels etc… I feel that only the best and the brightest went to Kollel (they would come the Rabbonim, Rebbeim etc…) the community would support it. Think about it let say Reb Yankel has a married daughter who’s husband is in kollel. Reb Yankel takes upon himself to support this young family (Kol Hakvod to him if he can do this) for three years at $40000. If this young man went to work or Reb Yankel only lets say gave $10000 a year (to supplement the income) look how much money this one person has left over to give to where it’s needed. Now imagine someone is supporting multiple children. It seems most of our money are going in the direction to the same people who can make a living themselves if they choose too. And the middle class/poor person gets hurt by this.

Another problem in the frum world is the cost of living. We only have ourselves to blame. I understand why NYC would cost a lot for a home. But Lakewood? The price of a home has to come down. To those people who made a “killing” buying all the homes at a low price and then sold high, I hope you are happy now that you have “KILLED” all of those people who cannot afford a home or now has lost their home. I wonder what Hashem will do to you after 120 years!

Rabbonim = Politicians, Askonim = Lobbyists, in my opinion. Unfortunately today there are many corrupt Rabbonim and Askonim. They think what will benefit THEM and NOT the KLAL as a whole. And the Rabbonim who are legit do not have a loud enough voice to get things done.

I think it’s time the people have a louder voice. We scream that we want the Rabbonim to do this and that… We the people need a louder voice. Enough covering up abuse cases, enough from taking money from people who are not honest and cause chillul hashem.

And one more thing. If you are a Rav/Rebba please do not accept gifts like a $80000 Kos Shel Eliyahu or a $250000 silver seder table (I read this on a blog recently). When you accepts gifts like this you are saying that Money is more important. If you are “REAL” Rav/Rebba you would live your life more humbly…
”

“ You live in a dream world. Emunah and bitachon don't pay the bills and are not a cure all...they only make the suffering go a bit easier. We have to pay the teachers, assistants in the schools a decent parnassah and the costs of heating the buildings, buying supplies etc. has gone way up. As much as those in the frumme community don't want to hear it, the right answer is to have only as many children as you can afford to provide and care for without having to beg for welfare or tzedakah from the rest of the community. Its simple, but your fantasy world of "emunah and bitachhon" will only make it worse for these families. We should have emunah in hashem but for that very reason, we should also have self-control and self-reliance, and that includes only having as many children as we can care for. I'm struggling to support my own family and don't want to pay higher taxes to support yours... ”

“ u dont seem to believe in hashem at all!!!! SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!! ”

“ on this very sencetive issue 4b posting please consult a highly respected Rav ”

“ And in those years, kids went to public school!!! people couldn't aford yeshivas. ”

“ Look please in rashi bitzah daf 27 it's a "ktzas mitzva" so in other wards only if you are capable!!!! ”

“ Do you think that after Hitler YMach Shmi one per family or two per family is enough. Is that the answer to everything goiing on?
”