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Brooklyn, NY - Audio: In Tearful Interview, Father Of Chasidic Overdose Victim Says Jewish Educational System Is Failing Weaker Students

Published on: July 30, 2017 09:16 PM
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Avrumi Klein and his wife embrace their daughter Malky.Avrumi Klein and his wife embrace their daughter Malky.

Brooklyn, NY - With Tisha B’av just hours away, many of us have difficulty relating to the destruction of the Beis Hamikdash hundreds of years ago.

There is no doubt that the loss of the holiest place in the world should touch us deeply, but the passage of time has dulled the pain that we as a nation feel over the devastation wrought in Jerusalem so many centuries ago. 
Yet today we are witnessing a modern day churban of our own, burying young members of our community at an alarming rate.

In an extraordinary lengthy emotional interview with Dovid Lichtenstein , Borough Park resident Avrumi Klein shares the story of his 20 year daughter Malky who died of a heroin overdose just weeks ago, a painful reminder that while the events of Tisha B’Av may have transpired long ago, tragedy and mourning continue to be a part of our lives.

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A sweet, good natured girl, Malky began receiving resource room services when she was four, said Klein.

A teacher who told the class that Malky should have been left back inflicted the first of several major hits to Malky’s self esteem when she was just a second grader.

More blows followed as Malky’s high school acceptance was inexplicably rescinded weeks before school started.  A second placement fell through weeks later as the school felt unprepared to deal with Malky’s extra academic needs and an offer by the Kleins to build and fund a resource room to help their daughter keep up with the workload was summarily rejected. 

While Malky was finally accepted by a third school after months of being home, it was an exhausting experience as she spent all of her waking hours either in school or working with tutors.

By tenth grade the strain of having to invest hours to grasp what other students absorbed in minutes became too much for Malky and she dropped out of school completely, leaving her education and much of her religious upbringing behind.

It became clear to the Kleins that the rejection that Malky had experienced all too often in her educational career had left a deep imprint on her soul when after hearing about a local rabbi who had been given a prison furlough over the yomim tovim Malky blurted out, “they should put all rebbes, all teachers, all principals, everybody, they all belong in jail.”

Despite having supportive parents, Malky eventually began to dabble in drugs.  On one occasion she explained to her father that drugs numbed the agony that was her constant companion, telling him “you do not know what it feels like being stupid every single day of your life.  You can never feel that pain.  That is what I feel.”

Malky’s continued battle against substance abuse lasted for years, coming clean first on her own and then going away to rehab when she found herself relapsing. She discovered a talent for art, painting vivid pictures that revealed a hidden gift but also spoke very clearly of her inner torment. 

In time she felt ready to come back to Brooklyn, where she knew she would face accusing stares and the judgment of others. 

In the one week that Malky was home with her family before she died, she overdosed on heroin twice. In the first instance, her father was able to bring her back from the brink of death by injecting her with a dose of Narcan, which reverses the effects of a heroin overdose.  Malky’s second overdose proved to be fatal.

Five weeks have passed since the Kleins buried Malky, the fourth of their five children.  In the pre-Tisha B’Av interview, Klein offered his advice to educators in the hopes of preventing yet another churban like the one that claimed the life of his daughter.

“I would especially tell principals and mechanchim and mechanchos to never think that they were born to be mechachim or mechanchos, that it’s in their DNA,” said Klein.  “There is a lot more to learn of how to deal with kids that are not running on autopilot, kids that need extra help, kids that need guidance, kids that we need to be their GPS.  Those are the kids that we need to concentrate on .”

Some children are more resilient than others and can withstand an insensitive remark, noted Klein.  But for the others, a thoughtless comment can be devastating.

“One time telling a child in second grade that they belong in the first grade, they never ever get over it,” said Klein.  “It makes them feel stupid for the rest of their lives.”

Klein recalled a visit he and his wife had paid to Ruchama Klapman of MASK after Malky was told to leave school in the beginning of ninth grade.  Klapman called the principal of the school, asking them to reconsider their decision.  Six years later, her words are eerily prescient.

“She picked up the phone and she called that principal and she said to the principal ‘I just want you to know if you don’t do something about this you will have blood on your hands.’”

Listen to full 1 hour interview below.
The interview was conducted by David Lichtenstein who runs a news programme every Motzei Shabbos and can be listened to online here at http://audio.headlinesbook.com/  Lichtenstein is the author of two books on the Halakha view on current events such as Terrorism, Gay marriage, Abortion, Missionary Activities, Insanity, Genetics, Vaccinations, etc. his book can be purchesed here 

 



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2

 Jul 30, 2017 at 10:13 PM FBF37 Says:

There is an amazing school in Brooklyn named Ichud Mosdos Hachinuch that helps children like this. It's very similar to the program Cahal of the Five Towns. Same idea. Problem is it's very expensive but they try to work with you. The other major problem is the supposed stigma on parents that their child is in such a program. This school does wonders!! Someone at Ichud many years ago told me if we do not take care of these childrens now, we will pay triple or more later in costs. At the time I did not understand what he meant.

3

 Jul 30, 2017 at 10:13 PM Anonymous Says:

I'm crying over this terrible loSs.. Hashem Yeracheim. We need watch over our treasures... May we see the day of Moshiach speedily in our days.

4

 Jul 30, 2017 at 10:15 PM Age21 Says:

Myself I was a victim of this system, i was a very good Girl, I had zero issues, my only issue was I did poorly in my grades, because I suffer from dyslexia, after feeling shame and no support from any teacher nor principal, I decided to leave the community, I feel tremendous empathy for the Kleins. The problem is no one in the community stands up to the bullies who run the Frum school systems, and the tragedies will continue on and on, unfortunately.

5

 Jul 30, 2017 at 10:16 PM In BP Says:

Or let's gather thousands in Barclays Center or Citi field and talk about all kinds of politcail shutsim! Idiots!

6

 Jul 30, 2017 at 10:19 PM Applestein Says:

Unfortunately this happens a lot. I know good boys that were not allowed into main stream yeshivos because of learning disabilities. And yes the feel stupid. I have seen some kods become very successful in collage were they have the resources to help these kids. But why should there frumkite suffer? Because the frum schools don't want the stigma. Shame on them

7

 Jul 30, 2017 at 10:28 PM Crooklyn Says:

I wonder what Mrs. Tabak (she calls herself Rebbetzin) who runs 'Mesilas' an elite girl school in BP has to say about this?? as long as her rich husband who lives in Israel gives the school money she doesnt care. and BTW I havnt seen the fabulous married woman who come out from that school. so what does the Elitism help?? so u have a brand name and u feel good on the street that everyone calls you Rebbetzin. Feh...

8

 Jul 30, 2017 at 10:49 PM Nye'r Says:

Bais Yaakov High school is runed like a butcher store, your nothing more than a number, and there is no one whom you can talk to. The Kaplans who runs this school and hides all day long in his office, will never exit Hell.. I wish him .......

9

 Jul 30, 2017 at 10:54 PM Anonymous Says:

My heart goes out to this suffering family, may they not know any further tzar. Yidden, please, I share your frustration with the system, but we are 1 day from Tisha B' Av, let us not make disparaging remarks about our fellow Yidden. Let us work to change this attitude, there are so many bright young men & woman who given the opportunity would love to help those who need scholastic help reach their full potential. Let us all remember to treat each other with loving kindness. It is time to abandon the "its all about me" attitude. B'EH may this be the last tanus and may we all welcome the arrival of Moshiach and be united in Yerushiliam.

10

 Jul 30, 2017 at 11:07 PM Wiliboy Says:

Turns out the Satmar Rebbe Reb Yoel Zt'l was correct with his Chinuch Habunes. all they need is to be a good wife, all the problems we have now in the non satmar girls school stems from the school who want to compete with their brand name while teaching girls completely NONSENSE.

11

 Jul 30, 2017 at 11:10 PM dridel Says:

I have a daugher in one the brooklyn girls schools, what is this mishegas that all those schools the teachers make such an effort on the marks?? will my daugher be a better Jewish wife because of her grades? , I just go along with the system casue otherwise I will be shunned.

12

 Jul 30, 2017 at 11:13 PM Yoeli Says:

Thank you Mr Klien for courageously Sharing your strory. May you find comfort for this tragic loss.

13

 Jul 30, 2017 at 11:18 PM AniMamin Says:

The problem is that many rich guys who support all the yeshivas and schools are aware of this problem, and despite that, they continue to donate money to them, so their name is plastered all over in order to have Kavod, if the donors will halt all their donations until this issue is addressed, then there might be be a big change in our system.

14

 Jul 30, 2017 at 11:23 PM triumphinwhitehouse Says:

7and This is what people of means in the mainstream deal with can u imagine what a poor Russian or sefardic kid go through?

15

 Jul 30, 2017 at 11:23 PM lawyer5t Says:

If a school accepts any Gov. programs then they are violating your rights by rejecting a student. this can open up a pandorum of legal troubles to many schools.

16

 Jul 30, 2017 at 11:27 PM Hazel Says:

Reply to #15  
lawyer5t Says:

If a school accepts any Gov. programs then they are violating your rights by rejecting a student. this can open up a pandorum of legal troubles to many schools.

There are tremendous ramifications of legal issues that many private schools can suffer by rejecting students based on their grades, the problem is no one in this community is aware of it, and even if they are, it takes guts to take it on.

17

 Jul 30, 2017 at 11:34 PM yayv Says:

Mr. Klein is a tremendous chizuk for me, how articulate in such circumstance to be so calm and encouraging.

18

 Jul 30, 2017 at 11:37 PM Anonymous Says:

What's with you people #1-#15? Or tell me MY head is not on straight? I sobbed for a bit, but I want tachlis. I want to know who was the pusher? Who sold her the heroin?

You think that's not important? If the victim was a good girl, then the pusher was likely unzeren, likely also a girl, unless the victim was around boys for some reason, and the pusher isn't going to make a parnassa on a single victim.

I'll jog your memory. Remember Sept 10, 2013? That was when the NYPD busted one shomer Shabbos drug ring busted, headquartered at 4190 Bedford Ave, Brooklyn. They may have only been selling "soft" drugs for all I know, but I mention it to point out that this is around.

19

 Jul 30, 2017 at 11:42 PM Anonymous Says:

I pressed "send" too quickly. Even if the pusher who sold her the heroin isn't unzeren, if she has one frum client/victim/junkie, she probably has others, either by word of mouth, or by the same way she hooked this victim.

My opinion is to drop for now all the talk about chinuch reform. Job one should be finding the pusher. Job two should be find the other junkies who are risk of killing themselves this way. The chinuch reform is important, but its urgency doesn't match that of the need to get jobs one and two done.

20

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:00 AM lazy-boy Says:

there is no end to kids who fall through the cracks and the problem is in several areas.
One: teachers are not trained to be sensitive to special needs and the teachers themselves sometimes have personal issues that keep them from putting in 120% on any one child.
Two: parents often push their kids to fit into the mold of their community even when it does not fit in with the child's special need.
When the child feels rejected by his parents, his teachers and even his peer group, the child seeks support else where, and normally that is from the drop outs out in the street.
HaShem Yerachem, that we should never have to hear or see of other tragic cases.

21

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:01 AM triumphinwhitehouse Says:

Reply to #19  
Anonymous Says:

I pressed "send" too quickly. Even if the pusher who sold her the heroin isn't unzeren, if she has one frum client/victim/junkie, she probably has others, either by word of mouth, or by the same way she hooked this victim.

My opinion is to drop for now all the talk about chinuch reform. Job one should be finding the pusher. Job two should be find the other junkies who are risk of killing themselves this way. The chinuch reform is important, but its urgency doesn't match that of the need to get jobs one and two done.

U mean as usual nypd aren't doing their job? Of course crime is "falling" so therefore police don't wish to investigate and show higher numbers in their command.

22

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:04 AM Tamidbesimcha Says:

Yes they won't allow in girls who's mother doesn't dress modest or father is a known low life!
I have a daughter in that school and I don't my daughter have friends like such parents, so if they want there daughters accepted to a good school they can't go dress not modestly!

23

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:05 AM Breaking Heart Says:

What a Tisha B'av story.

We need to make an Egla Arufa. We are all responsible.

Each and every one of us.

A beautiful girl. A gorgeous smile. Devoted parents.

What is going on? Wake up! Wake up! Wake up!

How many more korbanos, people? How many more?

Eini Eini Yorda Mayim.

I am so sad hearing this incredibly courageous, loving, devoted father. What a betrayal of a precious Yiddishe Neshama. What a betrayal!

Can we say our hands our clean and did not shed this blood?

Time to embrace every child "Basher Hu Shom"! Enough with the Elitism, with the waiting lists, with the entrance exams! Every child is a child of Hashem.

Enough, enough, enough.

Ad Mosai, Moshiach Now.

24

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:18 AM inNY Says:

Reply to #22  
Tamidbesimcha Says:

Yes they won't allow in girls who's mother doesn't dress modest or father is a known low life!
I have a daughter in that school and I don't my daughter have friends like such parents, so if they want there daughters accepted to a good school they can't go dress not modestly!

you're clueless, I'm talking about a normal good family that has zero issues about tznius, it's no secret that Bais Yaakov of BP has changed policy in past year or so by not accepting girls who don't have a certain mark.. it has nothing to do with the parents. and the ruthless dictator Kaplan makes himself invisible.

25

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:20 AM weeping Says:

I would love to know which teacher told Malky you belong in grade 1, I wish her the same result to her child, or grandchild.

26

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:20 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
Crooklyn Says:

I wonder what Mrs. Tabak (she calls herself Rebbetzin) who runs 'Mesilas' an elite girl school in BP has to say about this?? as long as her rich husband who lives in Israel gives the school money she doesnt care. and BTW I havnt seen the fabulous married woman who come out from that school. so what does the Elitism help?? so u have a brand name and u feel good on the street that everyone calls you Rebbetzin. Feh...

I happen to be related to rebbetzin tabak & was a friend with some1 who works for her & u r was way off base on her. Recently (last year end of school year) rebbetzin tabak had a student who had a boyfriend in her school & tried desperately to get her to drop her bf which the girl refused. Did tabak expel her? No, she did not & she is still personally working with her.

27

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:23 AM Anonymous Says:

Thank you Mr. Klein for having the courage to speak up & not letting your beloved daughters passing gone unnoticed, most of us would be ashamed & gone in to hiding.

Unfortunately we all knew of similar situations that happened in the community with kids that weren't forecasted of becoming the next Einstein, very few of us can do much, school's & administrators won't change, doners need their tax receipts, we as parents need to stick together and become a force that needs to be reckoned with, we need to establish a protocol that if one child isn't accepted no other kids will show up.

28

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:32 AM Shchine_Begolus Says:

Reply to #19  
Anonymous Says:

I pressed "send" too quickly. Even if the pusher who sold her the heroin isn't unzeren, if she has one frum client/victim/junkie, she probably has others, either by word of mouth, or by the same way she hooked this victim.

My opinion is to drop for now all the talk about chinuch reform. Job one should be finding the pusher. Job two should be find the other junkies who are risk of killing themselves this way. The chinuch reform is important, but its urgency doesn't match that of the need to get jobs one and two done.

Ignorance is bliss.

29

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:34 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Wiliboy Says:

Turns out the Satmar Rebbe Reb Yoel Zt'l was correct with his Chinuch Habunes. all they need is to be a good wife, all the problems we have now in the non satmar girls school stems from the school who want to compete with their brand name while teaching girls completely NONSENSE.

This is far from the truth, because this is an issue that happens in boys schools as well, obviously you didn't read that it happens in boys schools too. However, a girls has EVERY right to be educated! Besides, if they 9nly knew how to be good mothers & wives how would they support their husnlbqnds who don't care to work?!

30

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:36 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
weeping Says:

I would love to know which teacher told Malky you belong in grade 1, I wish her the same result to her child, or grandchild.

Chulila. while my heart goes out for Malkys parents I still would refrain from cursing.. I myself lost a teenage daughter. I wouldnt want to inflict such pain on my worst enemy.

31

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:40 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
Anonymous Says:

I pressed "send" too quickly. Even if the pusher who sold her the heroin isn't unzeren, if she has one frum client/victim/junkie, she probably has others, either by word of mouth, or by the same way she hooked this victim.

My opinion is to drop for now all the talk about chinuch reform. Job one should be finding the pusher. Job two should be find the other junkies who are risk of killing themselves this way. The chinuch reform is important, but its urgency doesn't match that of the need to get jobs one and two done.

Youre right & youre wrong. Unfortunately, it is as just important to change the school atmosphere whether it's shunning, bullying or (the one that's swept under the rug but is out there too) raping/molesting our youth. However, on the flip side we do need to conquer drug abuse & selling & parents need to be more in control of keeping their children from drugs too

32

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:40 AM Shchine_Begolus Says:

Reply to #25  
weeping Says:

I would love to know which teacher told Malky you belong in grade 1, I wish her the same result to her child, or grandchild.

Chas Vesholom

33

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:48 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
Tamidbesimcha Says:

Yes they won't allow in girls who's mother doesn't dress modest or father is a known low life!
I have a daughter in that school and I don't my daughter have friends like such parents, so if they want there daughters accepted to a good school they can't go dress not modestly!

Who are u to decide what is modest & what is not & who are u to judge who is a low life & who is not? What makes someone a low life? Is it when they have langeh payas & are ripping off the government, or abusing their children? Or is it when they don't have langeh payas or a shtrimel & are a ger tzedek or bal tshuvah? As for modest clothes, for my cousins in meah sharim none of the girls of beis yaacov of bp dress modestly maybe we need to throw out or ban all of them. What you consider dressing modestly isn't always dressing modestly who are you to make that decision??? I for one am glad that my mom took me out of that school especially if ppl like u & ur kids r there & put me on a MUCH better scholastically & bitachon wise school

34

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:50 AM retired teacher Says:

I can't comment on the BY of BP as I know nothing about it. I have mixed feelings on this tragic loss of a beautiful young girl from such a supportive family.

There's no doubt her schools - & teachers - bear a massive responsibility for this tragedy. But.... I wonder if there are other factors as well. Abuse jumps out. Misdiagnoses of academic problems. Too much or too little help. Peer pressure. And as 18/19 said, the drug dealers who saw a vulnerable girl and sucked her in.

Every time I hear of such a tragedy I realize that yes, it DOES take a village. We as a community need to stop stigmatizing and pushing elitism, yichus & grades. We as parents (I am not referring to the Kleins or anyone specific) need to accept our struggling children & not try to force their square pegs into round holes. The trouble is, we are under pressure from "experts" who tell us how to "solve" these problems.

If anyone can make changes to this warped system, I believe it is the Kleins. They are incredible, courageous, honest people & I grieve for and with them over the loss of a child that began at age 4. I just hope lessons have been learned.

35

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:08 AM Mayer Alter Says:

These are new problems that did not exist in past generations. When will we all wake up and see the effects of the Internet on our precious children.

36

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:55 AM charedi chinuch dangers Says:

When they did it to the children of baalei tshuvos, nobody cared.
When they did it to the children of geirim, nobody cared.
From a BT&G family it was obvious that the mosdos would eventually go after FFB eventually. That time has come.
A community can be judged by how it treats it's least powerful members.
Many beautiful Torah families were destroyed. Totti learning Torah, bieber during the week, streimel on shabbos. Mommy with a shpitzel, skirt 5 inches below the knee and bullet proof stockings. Sweet children.
But loshon horah turns into shunning simply because of who your grandparents are. The modos haTorah have destroyed so many non-FFB families. Now there community has grown. So they go after weak students from FFB families. It was predictable.

37

 Jul 31, 2017 at 05:27 AM SG11224 Says:

When will the community stop listening to and following the PHONY Frum?
Don't those people learn Avos where it says "Don't Judge"?
The roshei taivos of Frum is:
Fill mit Recheilus, Un failt Menchlichkeit.
Menchlichkeit BEFORE YiddishKeit.
A True Story:
In 1969 when a bunch of hippies went to Bobov bais medrish on Simchas Torah to watch hakofos, the chassidim (eh hem ) made a whole balagan about the dress the look and how they should be thrown out. Reb Sholomo Halberstam stopped in middle of 3rd hakafah and slapped the table. He said NO, I want those people in front
Box Seats, to see the Torah Ohr. Show them the beauty, and they may thirst for more. Throw them away and they are lost forever.
Me, A friend of reb Moshe Spitz, and friend of the Beirach Moshe. Ate chulent with Aaron and Zalman Leib every shabbos . ( remember me ) But no those kids only made fun of my sport jacket or knitted yarmulkah, but not the rebbe, he welcomed me as I sat next to him hearing him daven. So now I have daughters, who went to Shulamith, nurses, midwives, self sufficeint contributors to not only the Jewish nation ( am ysiroel ) but would never think it a mitzvah to take Snap, WIC, Section 8,

38

 Jul 31, 2017 at 05:51 AM Easygoing770 Says:

Dear Avrumi,
I can't say that I feel your pain. but I am also a father and I feel broken. You are a role model for all of us. I wish you strength and courage.

39

 Jul 31, 2017 at 07:52 AM Anonymous Says:

Mental illness is a major factor in today's youth and that's why many teens from all spectrum of life are self medicating. The food we eat is laden with toxins and this was all happening while our politicians were bribed by big Agra and Food Inc to look away.
While many people can point to a mechanech that saved one there is still not an an excuse to push out another. The interesting part is why did they choose one student over the other? There's always a reason and mechanchim are humans like me and you.
Why aren't we pouring millions into finding who the drug pushers are and have them arrested? Remember the religious looking Jew (won't give any other descriptions) who was pulled over for something unrelated to drug possession and arrested for possessing millions of dollars worth of marijuana in the tractor he was pulling. People must've known he had a hot house and was growing?

40

 Jul 31, 2017 at 07:56 AM maya Says:

Its sad that our school systems has become a starshow, who has a better name, it's no longer about teaching true yiddishkeit, it's all about PR, leaders of the schools compete to be known as the brand name of school.

41

 Jul 31, 2017 at 08:23 AM Easygoing770 Says:

Avrumi Hugs to you and your whole family during this difficult time .

42

 Jul 31, 2017 at 08:30 AM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #19  
Anonymous Says:

I pressed "send" too quickly. Even if the pusher who sold her the heroin isn't unzeren, if she has one frum client/victim/junkie, she probably has others, either by word of mouth, or by the same way she hooked this victim.

My opinion is to drop for now all the talk about chinuch reform. Job one should be finding the pusher. Job two should be find the other junkies who are risk of killing themselves this way. The chinuch reform is important, but its urgency doesn't match that of the need to get jobs one and two done.

You are so clueless. Do you actually believe that is the problem? Come on your head is in the sand 3 feet deep!! Let me try to spell it out for the clueless ultra Yeshivish like yourself. Taking drugs is a symptom as explained in the article. Did you not read it? When someone puts you down and that someone is the COMMUNITY/schools then for some people it can break them like explained by Malki's father. Once that happens they find other sources to make them happy and some start to use drugs. Do you understand now?? It's not the drug pusher that is the problem. Gosh!

43

 Jul 31, 2017 at 08:35 AM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #22  
Tamidbesimcha Says:

Yes they won't allow in girls who's mother doesn't dress modest or father is a known low life!
I have a daughter in that school and I don't my daughter have friends like such parents, so if they want there daughters accepted to a good school they can't go dress not modestly!

Exhibit A: "My daughter should not be in the same class as someone who is not exactly like her."

Tamidbesimcha, YOU yes YOU are part of the problem. However there is time to do Teshuvah so RUN and start helping children who are in need. Be more accepting and non-judgmental!

44

 Jul 31, 2017 at 08:47 AM Ina Says:

This topic is one that has caused me and so many others great agmas nefesh, distress! I will listen to the audio later, but what has happened to Malky and is happening to so many girls and boys in our community is but a tip of the iceberg. I fear, the madness will perhaps end when every home has three or four children who are off the derech. Because right now, mostly every home has one, and nobody cares. We all have these children! What is the point of a Yiddishe chinuch? I would imagine, to raise Yiddishe children who desire to know the Ribono Shel Olam. To raise yet but another dor, generation! In this, we are clearly failing miserably. And, no it is not the internet that is robbing our children. It is these crazy schools who are run by people who are not fit because they are not mechanchim, or they are riddled with their own personal issues. Schools need to be run by gedolim. Where are our rabbonim? They are AWOL! Some years ago, I sat with dumb bells in my class. Everyone did. Nobody minded. And, you know what? They all did beautiful shiduchim and have beautiful homes. Some of them, have children who are wonderful students and learners! (cont.)

45

 Jul 31, 2017 at 08:53 AM PaulinSaudi Says:

I am very sorry for this family's loss.

46

 Jul 31, 2017 at 08:57 AM Ina Says:

Brooklyn has right now a crisis for lack of yeshivashe boys high schools. Every school wants only mezuyonim and there is no place for our boys! One example, Yeshiva Torah Vodaath, who had Rabbi Belsky of blessed memory. A Gaon Olam who they did not listen to because they are but one other yeshiva that is run by baal habatim. Four years ago, they brought in a horrible menahel and closed their doors to all children who are not metzuyonim. The excuse all schools are giving is, "we are not equipped"! Really... So, Torah Vodaath says, let our classrooms be empty! We only want metzuyonim! And, this from what was a community school! Good students don't arrive out of the 8th grade. You have to make them! That is what good mechachim do! Any school that is unable to, needs to bring in better people and those people are out there. The irony here is that Torah Vodaath built up their elementary school because they brought in Rabbi Sabo who showed them how to work with children. But, when these children graduate, their school tells them they are no longer welcome. There are many more schools to call out, and I won't hold back from doing so much longer. Neither should you!

47

 Jul 31, 2017 at 09:08 AM Almost Done Says:

As a parent of boys and girls who's children are near the end of their time in the school system I can declare with 100% certainty that our schools are a complete and utter failure. Sure there are kids that survive the system, some even thrive but is at the expense of the majority who are not getting anywhere near the chinuch they deserve. The system was built and structured to meet the needs of only one type of child, the easy to educate, bright child who does not need any outside motivation to perform and succeed. These children are celebrated in schools despite the fact that succeeding is so simple for these kids. the teachers and rebeim are overmatched and woefully under qualified. Its takes years of intense training to become a doctor, lawyer, accountant, plumber, electrician, etc - yet anyone can get a job as a rebbe or a teacher in our schools. Some say we need to pay our teachers and rebeim more - I say they are paid too much given the poor jobs that they do. Unfortunately Malkies story is not unique. This is just the tip of the iceberg. There will be no solution to this problem as long as schools continue to care more about their reputations than happy kids.

48

 Jul 31, 2017 at 09:17 AM SadyaG Says:

Just finished listening to the entire interview, I have no words, I'm angry, but I rather not post when I'm fuming, meanwhile may the Klein family have a Nachumah.

49

 Jul 31, 2017 at 09:35 AM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #47  
Almost Done Says:

As a parent of boys and girls who's children are near the end of their time in the school system I can declare with 100% certainty that our schools are a complete and utter failure. Sure there are kids that survive the system, some even thrive but is at the expense of the majority who are not getting anywhere near the chinuch they deserve. The system was built and structured to meet the needs of only one type of child, the easy to educate, bright child who does not need any outside motivation to perform and succeed. These children are celebrated in schools despite the fact that succeeding is so simple for these kids. the teachers and rebeim are overmatched and woefully under qualified. Its takes years of intense training to become a doctor, lawyer, accountant, plumber, electrician, etc - yet anyone can get a job as a rebbe or a teacher in our schools. Some say we need to pay our teachers and rebeim more - I say they are paid too much given the poor jobs that they do. Unfortunately Malkies story is not unique. This is just the tip of the iceberg. There will be no solution to this problem as long as schools continue to care more about their reputations than happy kids.

Agree 100% . Great post!

50

 Jul 31, 2017 at 09:37 AM The_Truth Says:

Unfortunately this is not a new phenomena, but it has been swept under the rug for years. Maybe not with girls, but definitely with boys.
What I don't understand, is why so many "claim" to be unhappy with "the system" but in reality just go along with it, and don't kick up the fuss about what they pretend they don't like and just continue to accept it.
Additionally, why, after so many years, are people still trying to fit the mold that the system dictates, when in reality, it does not work for them.

51

 Jul 31, 2017 at 09:51 AM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #47  
Almost Done Says:

As a parent of boys and girls who's children are near the end of their time in the school system I can declare with 100% certainty that our schools are a complete and utter failure. Sure there are kids that survive the system, some even thrive but is at the expense of the majority who are not getting anywhere near the chinuch they deserve. The system was built and structured to meet the needs of only one type of child, the easy to educate, bright child who does not need any outside motivation to perform and succeed. These children are celebrated in schools despite the fact that succeeding is so simple for these kids. the teachers and rebeim are overmatched and woefully under qualified. Its takes years of intense training to become a doctor, lawyer, accountant, plumber, electrician, etc - yet anyone can get a job as a rebbe or a teacher in our schools. Some say we need to pay our teachers and rebeim more - I say they are paid too much given the poor jobs that they do. Unfortunately Malkies story is not unique. This is just the tip of the iceberg. There will be no solution to this problem as long as schools continue to care more about their reputations than happy kids.

You know what drives me up the wall? The silence from our leadership. Our ship is sinking and quickly and there is nothing. An acknowledgement of the issue and that it is being worked on will do wonders. Also we need action and not words. Now nothing. Agudah just put out a letter about the Mahwah eruv situation which just got into the news. Silence on the main issues affecting our community.

Agudah, Are you home?? I think people should start putting pressure on Agudah and Torah Umseroah. Call them. You can google for their phone numbers.

52

 Jul 31, 2017 at 09:52 AM SigiB Says:

Thank you for posting the news about the girl who overdosed. I had a friend a talmid chochom and all around wise man who told me frimkeit wuithout rachmim is rishis, for someone like me who waS 4 YEARS in concentration camp it is hard tp swallow

53

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:04 AM Blame game Says:

I cannot imagine the pain this family is going through. At the same time let's be honest here. She died from a drug overdose. Many people die everyday from it unfortunately. It's a plague on our society. So let's stop blaming others for our challenges. If the article puts light to the fact that the orthodox Jewish community has this problem as well as the general society then it's very worthy. To blame a school or principal for your problems is disingenuous.

54

 Jul 31, 2017 at 09:55 AM JustAnee Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

My heart goes out to this suffering family, may they not know any further tzar. Yidden, please, I share your frustration with the system, but we are 1 day from Tisha B' Av, let us not make disparaging remarks about our fellow Yidden. Let us work to change this attitude, there are so many bright young men & woman who given the opportunity would love to help those who need scholastic help reach their full potential. Let us all remember to treat each other with loving kindness. It is time to abandon the "its all about me" attitude. B'EH may this be the last tanus and may we all welcome the arrival of Moshiach and be united in Yerushiliam.

The problem with that is that the leaders are the ones who have an "its all about me" attitude. Everything in the enclave communities and their schools is all based upon money, power and politics. It is not only those with learning disabilities that are suffering - it is ALL of the children in these schools! They receive no real education at all, only are indoctrinated with sectarian nonsense and a cult mentality (which is child abuse); all while the rest of the community treat any Jew who is dresses differently, or is not from their prefered background, like they are beneath them; and while they defraud the government and taxpayers, and allow pedophiles free reign! THIS is NOT the religion of the Torah, and is continuing the more of what caused Tisha B'Av! The enclave communities have increased antisemitism with their despicable behavior; and the only way to salvage our people is to do serious tshuva, along with breaking up these cults, and go back to Torah basics, and UNIFY Yidden! Malky was not far from the truth when she said, “they should put all rebbes, all teachers, all principals, everybody, they all belong in jail.”

55

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:00 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #47  
Almost Done Says:

As a parent of boys and girls who's children are near the end of their time in the school system I can declare with 100% certainty that our schools are a complete and utter failure. Sure there are kids that survive the system, some even thrive but is at the expense of the majority who are not getting anywhere near the chinuch they deserve. The system was built and structured to meet the needs of only one type of child, the easy to educate, bright child who does not need any outside motivation to perform and succeed. These children are celebrated in schools despite the fact that succeeding is so simple for these kids. the teachers and rebeim are overmatched and woefully under qualified. Its takes years of intense training to become a doctor, lawyer, accountant, plumber, electrician, etc - yet anyone can get a job as a rebbe or a teacher in our schools. Some say we need to pay our teachers and rebeim more - I say they are paid too much given the poor jobs that they do. Unfortunately Malkies story is not unique. This is just the tip of the iceberg. There will be no solution to this problem as long as schools continue to care more about their reputations than happy kids.

You are absolutely correct. But add to that the complete failure of these schools to provide any true education, in the attempt to keep these kids in the community, as they are ill-equiped to survive otherwise. These "utter failure" schools need to be shut down - but to do so will require parents to stop sending their kids through this broken school system.

56

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:10 AM RamapoJew Says:

Reply to #51  
FBF37 Says:

You know what drives me up the wall? The silence from our leadership. Our ship is sinking and quickly and there is nothing. An acknowledgement of the issue and that it is being worked on will do wonders. Also we need action and not words. Now nothing. Agudah just put out a letter about the Mahwah eruv situation which just got into the news. Silence on the main issues affecting our community.

Agudah, Are you home?? I think people should start putting pressure on Agudah and Torah Umseroah. Call them. You can google for their phone numbers.

unfortunately these organizations are part of the problem and not the solution.

57

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:13 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #53  
Blame game Says:

I cannot imagine the pain this family is going through. At the same time let's be honest here. She died from a drug overdose. Many people die everyday from it unfortunately. It's a plague on our society. So let's stop blaming others for our challenges. If the article puts light to the fact that the orthodox Jewish community has this problem as well as the general society then it's very worthy. To blame a school or principal for your problems is disingenuous.

The points is for the future. We are humans and are not computerized. If the system doesn't work for a student change the system not get rid of the student. Get it?!

58

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:14 AM The_Truth Says:

Reply to #51  
FBF37 Says:

You know what drives me up the wall? The silence from our leadership. Our ship is sinking and quickly and there is nothing. An acknowledgement of the issue and that it is being worked on will do wonders. Also we need action and not words. Now nothing. Agudah just put out a letter about the Mahwah eruv situation which just got into the news. Silence on the main issues affecting our community.

Agudah, Are you home?? I think people should start putting pressure on Agudah and Torah Umseroah. Call them. You can google for their phone numbers.

With all due respect, there is no simple solution that anyone can just flip a switch and solve overnight. I know someone at the Aguda and he is constantly helping the klal. If they had the solution, they would come right out with it. But even if they did, do you really think that if any one person, or organization changed policy overnight, everyone would just accept it? 90% of the others would be against it, especially 90% of the parent body.
There needs to be a ground up initiative, educating people that there are different people in the community, with different strengths and not everyone needs to fit into the same box. It needs to be accepted that some girls & boys dont learn a traditional education, and those who dont have an education will also get a shidduch. That not everyone is cut out for strict rules of school or yiddishkeit, but are still accepted in the community.

59

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:15 AM maxedout Says:

Reply to #51  
FBF37 Says:

You know what drives me up the wall? The silence from our leadership. Our ship is sinking and quickly and there is nothing. An acknowledgement of the issue and that it is being worked on will do wonders. Also we need action and not words. Now nothing. Agudah just put out a letter about the Mahwah eruv situation which just got into the news. Silence on the main issues affecting our community.

Agudah, Are you home?? I think people should start putting pressure on Agudah and Torah Umseroah. Call them. You can google for their phone numbers.

FBF37, you said the magic words: "Silence from our leadership". It's about time ALL of you realized that we leadership. Be it Lakewood, Brooklyn, Monsey, chasidus, it doesn't matter. All we have are Rabbonim who are on a power trip and want to dictate our lives. The reason they are silent is because they have no clue how to handle serious issues. Their only concerns are internet, smartphones, white shirts, and if youre chasidish, what kind of glasses you wear, etc. In other words, SHTUS.
As a parent who has finished with the high school system (BH), I can tell you some stories proving the power trip these roshei yeshivos and menahelim are. I have seen it in Flatbush, Queens, and even in Eretz Yisrael. Having spoken to other parents, I can you I am not alone. I can tell you that the menahel of a well known mesivta in Queens is a monster and a menuval. And the RY stands behind him, no matter how wrong he is.
Men like these have jewish blood on their hands and I pray that when their 120 is up, they will pay dearly.

60

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:17 AM maxedout Says:

Reply to #53  
Blame game Says:

I cannot imagine the pain this family is going through. At the same time let's be honest here. She died from a drug overdose. Many people die everyday from it unfortunately. It's a plague on our society. So let's stop blaming others for our challenges. If the article puts light to the fact that the orthodox Jewish community has this problem as well as the general society then it's very worthy. To blame a school or principal for your problems is disingenuous.

I am so sorry to say that you are an ignoramus. It is the principals and the schools that drive them out and the kids turn to drugs to ease the pain. You really should pull head out of your tuches.

61

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:28 AM Easygoing770 Says:

Reply to #51  
FBF37 Says:

You know what drives me up the wall? The silence from our leadership. Our ship is sinking and quickly and there is nothing. An acknowledgement of the issue and that it is being worked on will do wonders. Also we need action and not words. Now nothing. Agudah just put out a letter about the Mahwah eruv situation which just got into the news. Silence on the main issues affecting our community.

Agudah, Are you home?? I think people should start putting pressure on Agudah and Torah Umseroah. Call them. You can google for their phone numbers.

The entire system needs to be revamped from the ground up. Clean slate! Not only for our yeshivos but for the entire community dynamic. Out with the old conceited way of thinking.

62

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:31 AM mewhoze Says:

my eyes filled with tears reading this article. the photo of Malky and her parents shows so much love between them. Please don't make this post into a way to insult or curse others. Make it into something positive in memory of Malky. If the school your child goes to cannot handle him/her perhaps it is the school and not the child. Leave no stone unturned till you find the school that is the right fit. MASK is a wonderful organization. G-d Bless all!

63

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:38 AM georgeg Says:

Reply to #42  
FBF37 Says:

You are so clueless. Do you actually believe that is the problem? Come on your head is in the sand 3 feet deep!! Let me try to spell it out for the clueless ultra Yeshivish like yourself. Taking drugs is a symptom as explained in the article. Did you not read it? When someone puts you down and that someone is the COMMUNITY/schools then for some people it can break them like explained by Malki's father. Once that happens they find other sources to make them happy and some start to use drugs. Do you understand now?? It's not the drug pusher that is the problem. Gosh!

#19 has it right. A loose lip could be simple thoughtless. Expelling a student could be simple incompetence. But there is something fundamentally different about the issue of illegal drugs (and "hard" drugs at that) that shows a deliberate planned, active system that is protecting itself and its miscreants that cares nothing about its own people nor about G-d's world. It is the difference between the person who drops a rock that someone falls over and he person who plants bombs to explode.

64

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:44 AM Zaidi Says:

There are many good educators, teachers, the problem is there are a few heartless bunch of principles that run the schools, and they are the ones who cause havoc, teachers can't do anything about it.

65

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #53  
Blame game Says:

I cannot imagine the pain this family is going through. At the same time let's be honest here. She died from a drug overdose. Many people die everyday from it unfortunately. It's a plague on our society. So let's stop blaming others for our challenges. If the article puts light to the fact that the orthodox Jewish community has this problem as well as the general society then it's very worthy. To blame a school or principal for your problems is disingenuous.

Another clueless frum chochom. The issue here is not the drugs. It's what led for the individual to take the drugs. Why is this so hard to understand? Read the article above and listen to the interview.

66

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:49 AM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #58  
The_Truth Says:

With all due respect, there is no simple solution that anyone can just flip a switch and solve overnight. I know someone at the Aguda and he is constantly helping the klal. If they had the solution, they would come right out with it. But even if they did, do you really think that if any one person, or organization changed policy overnight, everyone would just accept it? 90% of the others would be against it, especially 90% of the parent body.
There needs to be a ground up initiative, educating people that there are different people in the community, with different strengths and not everyone needs to fit into the same box. It needs to be accepted that some girls & boys dont learn a traditional education, and those who dont have an education will also get a shidduch. That not everyone is cut out for strict rules of school or yiddishkeit, but are still accepted in the community.

I agree. As I wrote "An acknowledgement of the issue and that it is being worked on will do wonders." I get it there are no magic switch. What I disagree is that you said 90% of the parent body will disagree. I would say maybe 30% would disagree. You would be surprised how many would go with change.

67

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:50 AM Tamidbesimcha Says:

Reply to #33  
Anonymous Says:

Who are u to decide what is modest & what is not & who are u to judge who is a low life & who is not? What makes someone a low life? Is it when they have langeh payas & are ripping off the government, or abusing their children? Or is it when they don't have langeh payas or a shtrimel & are a ger tzedek or bal tshuvah? As for modest clothes, for my cousins in meah sharim none of the girls of beis yaacov of bp dress modestly maybe we need to throw out or ban all of them. What you consider dressing modestly isn't always dressing modestly who are you to make that decision??? I for one am glad that my mom took me out of that school especially if ppl like u & ur kids r there & put me on a MUCH better scholastically & bitachon wise school

Someone that doesn't cover the knees and wears tight clothing are not considered modest for that school! you could go to a different school if you would like but don't complain if you don't get accepted! I am also glad that your Mom took you out!

68

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:51 AM Ina Says:

Reply to #62  
mewhoze Says:

my eyes filled with tears reading this article. the photo of Malky and her parents shows so much love between them. Please don't make this post into a way to insult or curse others. Make it into something positive in memory of Malky. If the school your child goes to cannot handle him/her perhaps it is the school and not the child. Leave no stone unturned till you find the school that is the right fit. MASK is a wonderful organization. G-d Bless all!

"Leave no stone unturned till you find the school that is the right fit."

With all due respect to you, you are not getting it. There are no schools! They have all closed their doors to our children, and we all have these children.

MASK is a good organization, however, nobody has stepped up to the plate to make a difference.

Boys schools are throwing them out ever year. And, even if they keep them because they know it is wrong to throw them out, they are so very nasty to them.

I know these awful people will get their due in the next world for destroying a generation, but I want them to suffer in this world too!

69

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:53 AM Ina Says:

Reply to #64  
Zaidi Says:

There are many good educators, teachers, the problem is there are a few heartless bunch of principles that run the schools, and they are the ones who cause havoc, teachers can't do anything about it.

I do not agree. Often, teachers are following the directives of their bosses who are wicked people. Schools are about the bottom line, my job, my career .... Principals and teachers often care little for their students.

70

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:46 AM Anonymous Says:

Frim keit without rachmim is rishis . Handling children needs compassion, be able to look at an individual and mostly a Yiddish neshomo of which so many were murdered, by gas, fire , shooting and just murdered

71

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:56 AM Anonymous Says:

No one seems to disagree with #1 Maybe BOBOV 45 should stop paying a fortune for their rental.

72

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:56 AM B-Ahava Says:

The scary part of the story is even though parents can do everything right it can sometimes still end up in tragedy.. May the family find comfort..
Unfortunately many of the schools & kehilas have become exclusive vs. inclusive.
Even though its not the case here, but I have never seen a kid who is struggling with yiddishkeit start keeping yiddishkeit because someone gave him/her mussar. We need to truly love our children with no strings attached no matter how they behave because they are the ones who will carry on the generations. If you really care they should be erlich then love them with all your might & express it to them! Express to them how beautiful doing mitzvahs is! Even though it may fall on deaf ears initially but if you really love them no strings attached and YOU ARE SINCERE eventually it'll get through

PARENTS (and mechanchim too), for those of you faking yiddishkeit (cutting corners) your kids see it all. Kids r smart & pickup baloney. You cant behave like you want & then expect your kids to be erlich all of a sudden. The levush is just a cover up (literally). Dont expect to hide behind your hat & jacket and everything is good

Teachers, WAKE UP! u can make a dif.

73

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:56 AM KZler Says:

This tragedy is is a segment of a general malady afflicting us.

We worry too much about the length of the skirt, we appoint menahlim or mnenaheloth of institutions for which they Are not fit, but have someone on the board who backs them, the child of a person on a scholarship is not less deserving than a child whose parent cannot pay full tuition.

Baltmore had a Rabbi Benyamin Steinberg a’h , an educator and a tsaddik unfortunately he was niftar early due to Ca of pancreas .

74

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:00 AM Anonymous Says:

Thank you VIN for reporting and pinning such an important article!

75

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:02 AM A Reader Says:

Reply to #53  
Blame game Says:

I cannot imagine the pain this family is going through. At the same time let's be honest here. She died from a drug overdose. Many people die everyday from it unfortunately. It's a plague on our society. So let's stop blaming others for our challenges. If the article puts light to the fact that the orthodox Jewish community has this problem as well as the general society then it's very worthy. To blame a school or principal for your problems is disingenuous.

I totally agree here.
This was a 20 something year old OTD girl, who tragically accidentally overdosed.
Are we really going to fool ourselves that we can blame a teacher 16 years earlier for what happened?
Fortunately she was not shunned and thrown out on the street by her family, so this story make its way into the frum news, but unfortunately this has been happening for the past 20 years and has now become epidemic in the frum community.
Its the community responsibility to take care of our youth, not to keep on bashing and blaming others.

76

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:04 AM TryingMother Says:

Tears, for the Beis Hamikdash. pure Sinnas Chinam. A beautiful girl. A beautiful neshama. Parents whose torment knows no end until we all band together with love for every yid, for every jewish child, for everyone who is labeled and bring them into the warm embrace of real yiddishkeit without any of our personal agenda's.
Every one of us here are crying.
Mommy and Tatty Klein please keep your voice loud. hold your head high, you have the opportunity to save thousands of children's lives.
Your daughter Malky was a Korban. Why Hashem needs so many Karbonas? Why Malky?

In Malky's zchus I will hold my children tighter. I will wipe their tears with love. I will open my heart to their challenges and together we will bring Moshiach so you can hold Malky again.

77

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:12 AM Crazykanoiy Says:

I understand that the parents are grieving but it is NOT an excuse to go about blaming teachers, rabbeim, morahs and principles. Most educators put in their heart and soul for the success of their students. Anyone who attends any chinuch conference can attest that the majority of sessions are spent discussing how to reach out to the weakest of students.

It is unfair for parents to assign blame in public when hardly anyone is privy to the full circumstances of Malky's unfortunate case. Sentiments such as "lock up all teachers..." are horribly wrong and revolting even when expressed in pain. It is equally absurd to attribute this tragedy to the comments of a second grade teacher.

It is clear from this article that Malky suffered from learning disabilities and schools by their very definition are focused on learning. The fact that the "system" did not work for Malky - and again we are not privy to what help the schools did offer and what else was going on in her life - does not rationalize the wholesale criticism portrayed in this article.

78

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:12 AM mindfull Says:

We can never think to ourselves that as a community ( or matter of a fact, any community..) we are perfect and we got it right and we don't need any improvement. In the secular school system ( or even in the world) they constantly are looking for ways to improve to change to modify. There are oversight committees, special offices monitoring and constant changes and improvements happening. Simply if you look into the Ps system it is totally not the same how it looked decades ago. If you think, well now its perfect and it will stay like this, you're wrong, the committees and oversights will stay there to improve and change again and again. What was good last year is not anymore good this year. Systems ( any) need to be updated on a regular basis.
My Point, i don't think we should ever be satisfied in what level our schools are.I think our boro park school system which maybe perhaps was good at some point many years ago was simply never bothered to change with the times and challenges. There is no oversight no professional committee that hold schools responsible and push for change. just status quo, and that's the burning issue. everything, everyone needs constant oil changes.

79

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:14 AM Tamidbesimcha Says:

Reply to #43  
FBF37 Says:

Exhibit A: "My daughter should not be in the same class as someone who is not exactly like her."

Tamidbesimcha, YOU yes YOU are part of the problem. However there is time to do Teshuvah so RUN and start helping children who are in need. Be more accepting and non-judgmental!

I am part of the people that don't dress modest and don't get accepted for that reason? They could defiantly still do teshuva and dress more modest! Again there are enough schools that would accept such people but dont expect to be accepted to any school.

80

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:16 AM triumphinwhitehouse Says:

Reply to #51  
FBF37 Says:

You know what drives me up the wall? The silence from our leadership. Our ship is sinking and quickly and there is nothing. An acknowledgement of the issue and that it is being worked on will do wonders. Also we need action and not words. Now nothing. Agudah just put out a letter about the Mahwah eruv situation which just got into the news. Silence on the main issues affecting our community.

Agudah, Are you home?? I think people should start putting pressure on Agudah and Torah Umseroah. Call them. You can google for their phone numbers.

when has the Aguda been responsive the AVERAGE YOSEF's issue? The Aguda IS the epitomy of the inside game, people with the trifecta yichus, money and Yeshiva name recognition control and sit on the board of this org, who when it comes to politicians will claim they speak for us of course.

81

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:19 AM mchaim Says:

We have schools??? We have indoctrination institutions! A good chunk of the so called rebbes, teachers, mechanchim, and principals are hopelessly incompetent. A school has to be a good fit for the particular child. Some children excel in arts, others in engineering, some enjoy academics. A child in the wrong school is going to experience a living hell. Some manage to get by, others, like Malky, suffer horribly. Instead of having a wide range of different excellent schools, we have schools that force the same non-sense to thousands of children. I highly doubt that Malky was a "weak" or "special needs" student (obviously I didn't know her). I suspect that if she would be in an actual "school" instead of being in an indoctrination institute, she would likely flourish and be happy. I hope the parents don't feel guilty (I am sure to some degree is inevitable). They were stuck between one hell hole and the other hell hole.

82

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:20 AM TryingMother Says:

Reply to #53  
Blame game Says:

I cannot imagine the pain this family is going through. At the same time let's be honest here. She died from a drug overdose. Many people die everyday from it unfortunately. It's a plague on our society. So let's stop blaming others for our challenges. If the article puts light to the fact that the orthodox Jewish community has this problem as well as the general society then it's very worthy. To blame a school or principal for your problems is disingenuous.

Stop and think about your comment? She died from drug overdose. Her parents are being 100% honest about that. Healthy, confident and fulfilled people do not turn to drugs. People who have deep pain turn to drugs to numb it.
Where is this pain from? Rejection. rejection from teachers, from principals, from the community. Don't try to shirk responsibility. This is not a blame game. This is cause and effect.

83

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:22 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #61  
Easygoing770 Says:

The entire system needs to be revamped from the ground up. Clean slate! Not only for our yeshivos but for the entire community dynamic. Out with the old conceited way of thinking.

Right. Chasidim have become a cult par excellence!

84

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:25 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #59  
maxedout Says:

FBF37, you said the magic words: "Silence from our leadership". It's about time ALL of you realized that we leadership. Be it Lakewood, Brooklyn, Monsey, chasidus, it doesn't matter. All we have are Rabbonim who are on a power trip and want to dictate our lives. The reason they are silent is because they have no clue how to handle serious issues. Their only concerns are internet, smartphones, white shirts, and if youre chasidish, what kind of glasses you wear, etc. In other words, SHTUS.
As a parent who has finished with the high school system (BH), I can tell you some stories proving the power trip these roshei yeshivos and menahelim are. I have seen it in Flatbush, Queens, and even in Eretz Yisrael. Having spoken to other parents, I can you I am not alone. I can tell you that the menahel of a well known mesivta in Queens is a monster and a menuval. And the RY stands behind him, no matter how wrong he is.
Men like these have jewish blood on their hands and I pray that when their 120 is up, they will pay dearly.

Having had a close relationship with many of our "leaders", I can tell you that the majority of them are simply mentally ill and a good percentage of them do not believe one word of the Torah but choose to play a game (yes I know first hand).

85

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:27 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #51  
FBF37 Says:

You know what drives me up the wall? The silence from our leadership. Our ship is sinking and quickly and there is nothing. An acknowledgement of the issue and that it is being worked on will do wonders. Also we need action and not words. Now nothing. Agudah just put out a letter about the Mahwah eruv situation which just got into the news. Silence on the main issues affecting our community.

Agudah, Are you home?? I think people should start putting pressure on Agudah and Torah Umseroah. Call them. You can google for their phone numbers.

I can honestly say I know dozens of people who are basically frum, meaning Shabbos, kashrus and other things but really have very negative feelings to Yiddishkeit since the yeshivas taught them learn and marry a learner but also make sure to marry someone whose father is in real estate, diamonds, nursing homes even a doctor, accountant or lawyer will do and it is a Zechus for the giver that you a taker., all while getting benefits of course because on paper you are poor. The suggestion about Aguda solving the problem is well meaning but is not happening. Would you hire an arsonist to be your fire marshal? that is the equivalent of having Aguda solve the issue.

86

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:28 AM RamapoJew Says:

Reply to #53  
Blame game Says:

I cannot imagine the pain this family is going through. At the same time let's be honest here. She died from a drug overdose. Many people die everyday from it unfortunately. It's a plague on our society. So let's stop blaming others for our challenges. If the article puts light to the fact that the orthodox Jewish community has this problem as well as the general society then it's very worthy. To blame a school or principal for your problems is disingenuous.

If you don't blame the responsible parties (the schools, teachers, and our leadership) nothing will change!!

87

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:29 AM Ina Says:

Reply to #77  
Crazykanoiy Says:

I understand that the parents are grieving but it is NOT an excuse to go about blaming teachers, rabbeim, morahs and principles. Most educators put in their heart and soul for the success of their students. Anyone who attends any chinuch conference can attest that the majority of sessions are spent discussing how to reach out to the weakest of students.

It is unfair for parents to assign blame in public when hardly anyone is privy to the full circumstances of Malky's unfortunate case. Sentiments such as "lock up all teachers..." are horribly wrong and revolting even when expressed in pain. It is equally absurd to attribute this tragedy to the comments of a second grade teacher.

It is clear from this article that Malky suffered from learning disabilities and schools by their very definition are focused on learning. The fact that the "system" did not work for Malky - and again we are not privy to what help the schools did offer and what else was going on in her life - does not rationalize the wholesale criticism portrayed in this article.

Wait until this is in your family, your back yard. It is coming soon. Because we all have these children. Let's see what you will say then. Most teachers have a job, and do not put heart and soul into their students. They don't even know who their students are. It is high time to assign blame in public and to call out the schools and their menahelim by name!

88

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:30 AM Had Eough Says:

Reply to #77  
Crazykanoiy Says:

I understand that the parents are grieving but it is NOT an excuse to go about blaming teachers, rabbeim, morahs and principles. Most educators put in their heart and soul for the success of their students. Anyone who attends any chinuch conference can attest that the majority of sessions are spent discussing how to reach out to the weakest of students.

It is unfair for parents to assign blame in public when hardly anyone is privy to the full circumstances of Malky's unfortunate case. Sentiments such as "lock up all teachers..." are horribly wrong and revolting even when expressed in pain. It is equally absurd to attribute this tragedy to the comments of a second grade teacher.

It is clear from this article that Malky suffered from learning disabilities and schools by their very definition are focused on learning. The fact that the "system" did not work for Malky - and again we are not privy to what help the schools did offer and what else was going on in her life - does not rationalize the wholesale criticism portrayed in this article.

What school do you represent - those of us on the outside know who is to blame.

89

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:30 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #47  
Almost Done Says:

As a parent of boys and girls who's children are near the end of their time in the school system I can declare with 100% certainty that our schools are a complete and utter failure. Sure there are kids that survive the system, some even thrive but is at the expense of the majority who are not getting anywhere near the chinuch they deserve. The system was built and structured to meet the needs of only one type of child, the easy to educate, bright child who does not need any outside motivation to perform and succeed. These children are celebrated in schools despite the fact that succeeding is so simple for these kids. the teachers and rebeim are overmatched and woefully under qualified. Its takes years of intense training to become a doctor, lawyer, accountant, plumber, electrician, etc - yet anyone can get a job as a rebbe or a teacher in our schools. Some say we need to pay our teachers and rebeim more - I say they are paid too much given the poor jobs that they do. Unfortunately Malkies story is not unique. This is just the tip of the iceberg. There will be no solution to this problem as long as schools continue to care more about their reputations than happy kids.

What we need is actually quite simple. It's called a revolution! Kick all leaders out! All of them. They failed us, so good bye and good riddance! We start fresh with a free and democratic system with elections and all, so that we the people have a voice. What a sham!

90

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:33 AM Binumin Says:

i am a talmid from the 1960s school system and i come from the days when we got spanked on the bottom for NOT pointing my finger on the right Rashi and got spanked with a leather belt from a sewing machine. My Rebbes were all Holocaust survivors who were beat up in OLD europe school system and the saw all beatings from the war times.
the bottom line that they were mechanech Thosands and thousands of kinderlech who are today great-and grand fathers of dozens of einiklech and none of those talmidim went out letarbis roo and they all raised erliche dor of children.
Todays society where our kids have the best from all and yes they suffer from being rejected from yeshivas because of their poor grades or some learning disability.
Of course there are many fingers to point at who is to blame but i would like to make a point that we miss out on Misser seforim that tell us what causes Bad kids.
and( BAD has many definitions)...
Genyveh, Gezyleh, Machulis asirios, Talking during davening, Loshon Hora, Rechilis...all those avyres are some causes for what we see in our society those days. Of course the school system is alot to blame but if you look our selves in the mirror we might find our sel

91

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:37 AM Dctrd Says:

I grew up davening in same shul as Mr. Klein and family. I remember him as a mild-mannered gentleman with permanent smile on his face to everyone. Twenty years later it struck me as if I knew him from the present because I have only pleasant memories of him. May he never ever experience any pain again, and only have pure unadulterated Yiddish nachas b"H.

92

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:37 AM Duvi Honig Says:

Reply to #6  
Applestein Says:

Unfortunately this happens a lot. I know good boys that were not allowed into main stream yeshivos because of learning disabilities. And yes the feel stupid. I have seen some kods become very successful in collage were they have the resources to help these kids. But why should there frumkite suffer? Because the frum schools don't want the stigma. Shame on them

You are 100% correct!!
P.S. This is the first time posting a comment on articles but it's something that is Pikuach Nefesh and has to be addressed once and for all..
Attn Mechanchim If you can't love each and every child for who they are then are allowed to run a school..
Hashem created each child with their own strengths and special neshama.. How Dare we judge by scholastic skills and size up a child's future..
If a child is challenged schollasticly we the community need to recognize that it's not an embarassment to have such a child and that can not sit in class a whole day.. "Honestly I can't either"
Years ago before I started Parnassah network I started a school in Baltimore called Yeshiva Ateret together with R Mordechai Luria for boys 16+ and could not sit through a full day of yeshiva. R Belsky and many others sent children there and we were successful saving hundreds of bichurim whom today have beautiful Yiddish family's and some still learning from feeling rejected and ending up on the streets..
However this school was looked upon as boys who couldn't make it which was not the case..
Many of these boys were far smarter then the average Bochur in the system..
Unfortunately it was very hard to fundraise for a yeshiva which was so much needed and in the recession it closed down and that's when Parnassah Network was born to help Yungerlite who feel like failures because they can't provide and go thru similar challenges..
Take away!!
We need to stop commercializing our children's chinuch and married chidrens Parnassah's help identify each ones strength and help stengthen them..
One who looks down on others deserves to be looked down on from others...

93

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:39 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Wiliboy Says:

Turns out the Satmar Rebbe Reb Yoel Zt'l was correct with his Chinuch Habunes. all they need is to be a good wife, all the problems we have now in the non satmar girls school stems from the school who want to compete with their brand name while teaching girls completely NONSENSE.

Oh yeah stamar/ beis rochel would take my lifisha duaghter? Would they have taken malky who was hiemsh yet not fully satmar? I doubt it. The have their own exclusive mishags

94

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:44 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #19  
Anonymous Says:

I pressed "send" too quickly. Even if the pusher who sold her the heroin isn't unzeren, if she has one frum client/victim/junkie, she probably has others, either by word of mouth, or by the same way she hooked this victim.

My opinion is to drop for now all the talk about chinuch reform. Job one should be finding the pusher. Job two should be find the other junkies who are risk of killing themselves this way. The chinuch reform is important, but its urgency doesn't match that of the need to get jobs one and two done.

Wrong because no matter how many pushers you catch there will always be more. And if they can't find drugs they will find pain killers. The trend will never stop unless we take away the need to seek this dangerous outlet. We need to solve the root of the problem. And thats chunuch reform

95

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:44 AM Zicher Says:

The elephant in the room is, Parents who call up the school and threaten to take out their elite high mark daughter if the low mark girl will also attend, this is a fact of life that happens every semester before school starts, aks any school they will tell you, this is in fact true.

So, I do blame the teachers and principals who cave in to such threats. and to such parents who do that, I wish them suicide kids.

96

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

I'm crying over this terrible loSs.. Hashem Yeracheim. We need watch over our treasures... May we see the day of Moshiach speedily in our days.

Yes. Each Jew is a diamond. The gedolim should call out schools who won't help our children or shame them.

97

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:47 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #22  
Tamidbesimcha Says:

Yes they won't allow in girls who's mother doesn't dress modest or father is a known low life!
I have a daughter in that school and I don't my daughter have friends like such parents, so if they want there daughters accepted to a good school they can't go dress not modestly!

You mean till rthe 21st century all schools got it wrong? After the hlocaust your zayadas and bubbies did not talk like that. Same on you. BY of willamsburg has all types including girls from secular non frum homes with chasidisah rebas daughters. And it was fine.

You are talking pur nonsense and ignorance. Teach your chilld emuna and she will be fine with the "non tznuios kids". One day she may have to go to work and work among less "tznuis" people. This will be good training. Your chinuch views are snobby and not al pi torah. Sorry

98

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:52 AM Anonymous Says:

The real issue is that the community is only geared towards supposedly normal kids or kids that have very manageable disabilities. But, chas v'sholom there should be kids who are OTD or suspected drugs or other disability that is looked down upon in the community, and everyone runs for cover and shirks their responsibilities. It's all about appearances and looking good and hiding things for purposes of shiddichim and to appear baal batish. It's time to wake up and realize there's a real problem with some kids who need intervention and other services as well.

99

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:52 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
Mayer Alter Says:

These are new problems that did not exist in past generations. When will we all wake up and see the effects of the Internet on our precious children.

Past generations? Huh ? Like noone was on drugs in the 60's. My mom had plenty of class mates who became hippies in the 60's at woodstock.
But do you know what is a new machla? The exclusiveness and snobbishness of todays dor. BY of willimasburg took everyone after the war and so did Torah vodaath. Sadly, that's no longer the case.

This has nothing to do with the internet. That's fake news waht you are disseminating and causing fear mongering about non relevant issues.

100

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:53 AM mchaim Says:

Reply to #82  
TryingMother Says:

Stop and think about your comment? She died from drug overdose. Her parents are being 100% honest about that. Healthy, confident and fulfilled people do not turn to drugs. People who have deep pain turn to drugs to numb it.
Where is this pain from? Rejection. rejection from teachers, from principals, from the community. Don't try to shirk responsibility. This is not a blame game. This is cause and effect.

Who knows what the reason is, if one even exists. This article however is touching a raw nerve about how our community feels about its leaders and institutions. And the consensus is that they both equally stink!

101

 Jul 31, 2017 at 11:57 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #51  
FBF37 Says:

You know what drives me up the wall? The silence from our leadership. Our ship is sinking and quickly and there is nothing. An acknowledgement of the issue and that it is being worked on will do wonders. Also we need action and not words. Now nothing. Agudah just put out a letter about the Mahwah eruv situation which just got into the news. Silence on the main issues affecting our community.

Agudah, Are you home?? I think people should start putting pressure on Agudah and Torah Umseroah. Call them. You can google for their phone numbers.

Time for the Agudah to wake up and actually serve those who need it most desperately. They are usually the last to take needed action.

102

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:00 PM maxedout Says:

Reply to #96  
Anonymous Says:

Yes. Each Jew is a diamond. The gedolim should call out schools who won't help our children or shame them.

STOP with the GEDOLIM already. We have no Gedolim! We have rabbis on a power trip and ego trip and are clueless on how to handle these issues. They are NOT leaders. Stop being so blind!

103

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:01 PM YTV Grad Says:

Reply to #46  
Ina Says:

Brooklyn has right now a crisis for lack of yeshivashe boys high schools. Every school wants only mezuyonim and there is no place for our boys! One example, Yeshiva Torah Vodaath, who had Rabbi Belsky of blessed memory. A Gaon Olam who they did not listen to because they are but one other yeshiva that is run by baal habatim. Four years ago, they brought in a horrible menahel and closed their doors to all children who are not metzuyonim. The excuse all schools are giving is, "we are not equipped"! Really... So, Torah Vodaath says, let our classrooms be empty! We only want metzuyonim! And, this from what was a community school! Good students don't arrive out of the 8th grade. You have to make them! That is what good mechachim do! Any school that is unable to, needs to bring in better people and those people are out there. The irony here is that Torah Vodaath built up their elementary school because they brought in Rabbi Sabo who showed them how to work with children. But, when these children graduate, their school tells them they are no longer welcome. There are many more schools to call out, and I won't hold back from doing so much longer. Neither should you!

So sadly true. I recall when I went to YTV they had all types of boys from Russians, to bocuharins, blei teshuva etc.. We even had a completley mentally disturbed individual who went thru the YTV yeshiva system and loaded the soda machines post HS. I don't remember anyone getting turned down. Sadly, I hear thats not the case. Unfortunately , I can't lay the blame totally on YTV as this is the new fad. You no longer will get good boys if you take weaker boys. Today's society became elitist. It saddens me that YTV is veering from the tradition of the tzadaik R shraga feivel ZT"L (Aka MR Mendelowtiz ). He is sadly turning over in his grave from this new exclusivity.

104

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:02 PM SadyaG Says:

In this community the only way change happens, if the rule of the law takes place, we have no power to enforce anything by Rabbis, until a school won't face a civil lawsuit by one of the parents who was refused entry, I don't expect any change.

The Jewish community in general is not aware that rejecting a student even from a private school could be a serious legal issue for the school, it's based on the disability act. ask any well informed Lawyer they will tell you.

105

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:05 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #54  
JustAnee Says:

The problem with that is that the leaders are the ones who have an "its all about me" attitude. Everything in the enclave communities and their schools is all based upon money, power and politics. It is not only those with learning disabilities that are suffering - it is ALL of the children in these schools! They receive no real education at all, only are indoctrinated with sectarian nonsense and a cult mentality (which is child abuse); all while the rest of the community treat any Jew who is dresses differently, or is not from their prefered background, like they are beneath them; and while they defraud the government and taxpayers, and allow pedophiles free reign! THIS is NOT the religion of the Torah, and is continuing the more of what caused Tisha B'Av! The enclave communities have increased antisemitism with their despicable behavior; and the only way to salvage our people is to do serious tshuva, along with breaking up these cults, and go back to Torah basics, and UNIFY Yidden! Malky was not far from the truth when she said, “they should put all rebbes, all teachers, all principals, everybody, they all belong in jail.”

Well said. Its time to bring back the reba's of old. The old sanzer ruv zt"L never went to sleep if he had an extra penny laying around in his house. Every last pretuta had to be distributed to tzedaka every day. Its time for today's snazer rebas and all rebas to do the same. A chasidus is not a business.

106

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:05 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #100  
mchaim Says:

Who knows what the reason is, if one even exists. This article however is touching a raw nerve about how our community feels about its leaders and institutions. And the consensus is that they both equally stink!

Yes, our leaders are AWOL and many of our institutions need to be shut down. Schools need to be for the community and run by the community. There certainly is a crisis in Brooklyn and probably in other places as well. It is we, the community who need to fix because the fallout in 20 years time will be unbearable!

107

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #58  
The_Truth Says:

With all due respect, there is no simple solution that anyone can just flip a switch and solve overnight. I know someone at the Aguda and he is constantly helping the klal. If they had the solution, they would come right out with it. But even if they did, do you really think that if any one person, or organization changed policy overnight, everyone would just accept it? 90% of the others would be against it, especially 90% of the parent body.
There needs to be a ground up initiative, educating people that there are different people in the community, with different strengths and not everyone needs to fit into the same box. It needs to be accepted that some girls & boys dont learn a traditional education, and those who dont have an education will also get a shidduch. That not everyone is cut out for strict rules of school or yiddishkeit, but are still accepted in the community.

Start the solution by the aguda convention. The same way an inspring rabbi can convince bali batim to start giving extra money to rabbeim to the point that its started a movement. Now its a shtultz for a school who pays rabbeim more. That smae rabbi should get up and scream about our kids.

108

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:10 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #65  
FBF37 Says:

Another clueless frum chochom. The issue here is not the drugs. It's what led for the individual to take the drugs. Why is this so hard to understand? Read the article above and listen to the interview.

I'm certainly a frum chochom. I was one of those elite students that schools drool over. I come from a family that has only had brilliant children. Our only problem in school was the ayin horah from the jealous wannabees. Even the few in my family that went OTD remain very respectful of Yiddishkeit and have made major contributions to the sciences and liberal arts.

My sense is that people (like you) on this site are ignoring / denying the drug pusher issue because they aren't writing from a place of true sincere feelings for the victim. Rather, my suspicion is that they are writing out of a selfish motivation to improve their own family's situation, and since they don't see drugs as a personal threat, they don't care.

To support my hypothesis, I ask you to compare what is your own reaction to this tragedy to what was your reaction to a missing child case, like Leiby Kletzky. That's a scenario that a selfishly motivated parent will worry about, and sure enough there was no hypothetical discussion of mental health reform, just a rush to find the child ASAP, and prosecute the perp ASAP.

My conclusion is that you really don't care for this victim, only your own smallpersonal circle.

109

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #77  
Crazykanoiy Says:

I understand that the parents are grieving but it is NOT an excuse to go about blaming teachers, rabbeim, morahs and principles. Most educators put in their heart and soul for the success of their students. Anyone who attends any chinuch conference can attest that the majority of sessions are spent discussing how to reach out to the weakest of students.

It is unfair for parents to assign blame in public when hardly anyone is privy to the full circumstances of Malky's unfortunate case. Sentiments such as "lock up all teachers..." are horribly wrong and revolting even when expressed in pain. It is equally absurd to attribute this tragedy to the comments of a second grade teacher.

It is clear from this article that Malky suffered from learning disabilities and schools by their very definition are focused on learning. The fact that the "system" did not work for Malky - and again we are not privy to what help the schools did offer and what else was going on in her life - does not rationalize the wholesale criticism portrayed in this article.

Sorry there are no excuses. Yu can't run away from the obvious facts. No matter who learning disabled a child is you don't deny a kid a education nor do you throw them out. Stop being so PC. Facts are yes schools focus on eduation and malky was not up to par. But so what??? Don't forget that the most important education is the middos and yiddishkiet. So yes malky would have been a faling kid in a school.She would have sat threw classes wasting her time perhaps. But she would have remained in a functional ehrlich society.

Yes the public is to balme period. There are no excuses.

110

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:26 PM Ex Working Kollel guy Says:

Reply to #85  
Anonymous Says:

I can honestly say I know dozens of people who are basically frum, meaning Shabbos, kashrus and other things but really have very negative feelings to Yiddishkeit since the yeshivas taught them learn and marry a learner but also make sure to marry someone whose father is in real estate, diamonds, nursing homes even a doctor, accountant or lawyer will do and it is a Zechus for the giver that you a taker., all while getting benefits of course because on paper you are poor. The suggestion about Aguda solving the problem is well meaning but is not happening. Would you hire an arsonist to be your fire marshal? that is the equivalent of having Aguda solve the issue.

That's nonsense. Fake news. Yeshivas don't push girls to marry learning boys. Its just a style. Its a complete lie what you write and have no backing.

The idea of marrying rich is not exclusive to kollel either. Unfortunately, the boys in law school expect their shver to pay for their law school well.

111

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:22 PM fraidy freidman Says:

My heart breaks for the parents who undoubtedly did everything they possibly could. Chaval chaval that this happened. There is a special place in hell for the "mechanchim" who are only in this line bc they failed in business, and "teachers" who got jobs bc they were connected in some way. EVERYONE dropped the ball here. THIS HAS TO STOP!!!! and i would LOVE to know, WHERE ARE THE GEDOLIM?????? WHERE IS THE OUTCRY FROM AGUDA???? WE ARE LOSING OUR CHILDREN BC OF OUR RIDICULOUS CHINUCH METHODS!!! AND BC OF HANHALA THAT WANTS ONLY METZIYUNIM!! this girl was pressured to do well when she couldnt, not that she didnt want to!! this is the msg of this year for Tisha Bav. This is our present day churban. MAy Hashem comfort the parents and grandparents, the family, and all of us that are crying over this precious neshama.

112

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:28 PM Ex kollel working guy Says:

Reply to #85  
Anonymous Says:

I can honestly say I know dozens of people who are basically frum, meaning Shabbos, kashrus and other things but really have very negative feelings to Yiddishkeit since the yeshivas taught them learn and marry a learner but also make sure to marry someone whose father is in real estate, diamonds, nursing homes even a doctor, accountant or lawyer will do and it is a Zechus for the giver that you a taker., all while getting benefits of course because on paper you are poor. The suggestion about Aguda solving the problem is well meaning but is not happening. Would you hire an arsonist to be your fire marshal? that is the equivalent of having Aguda solve the issue.

The real problem is the hungarians and their exclusiveness. And when I say Hungarian I don't mean per say where you or zayada stamed from. Its a loosely held term. (my mom was born in Hungary). This notion that as society thrived we are better than our neighbor. And they have a chutzpa to call it "bal habatish". As if its somewhat kosher because we are "bal Habatish" and seek a "bal habatish" shiduuch who would never use a clear plastic table cloth on top of my cloth table cloth . (except for when noone is looking. Yes I have been at "ba; habatsih" homes who even use plastic dishes when noone sees. Its not about shabbos it about showing off.) And it does not stop at shidduchim. Our schools also need to be " Bal Habatish" Of course the schools need to be Torahdik Bal habatsih. So we need a few choshva talmidi chahcimim or rosh yeshvas too in our school. But good luck if you are a shlochy accountant. The hungarins started this when they founded yeshivas noviminsk as an exclusive yeshiva for metzyonim and it just metastasized and became the norm.

You can still find real yeshvisha neby yeshivas with no hungarians who take all.

113

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #92  
Duvi Honig Says:

You are 100% correct!!
P.S. This is the first time posting a comment on articles but it's something that is Pikuach Nefesh and has to be addressed once and for all..
Attn Mechanchim If you can't love each and every child for who they are then are allowed to run a school..
Hashem created each child with their own strengths and special neshama.. How Dare we judge by scholastic skills and size up a child's future..
If a child is challenged schollasticly we the community need to recognize that it's not an embarassment to have such a child and that can not sit in class a whole day.. "Honestly I can't either"
Years ago before I started Parnassah network I started a school in Baltimore called Yeshiva Ateret together with R Mordechai Luria for boys 16+ and could not sit through a full day of yeshiva. R Belsky and many others sent children there and we were successful saving hundreds of bichurim whom today have beautiful Yiddish family's and some still learning from feeling rejected and ending up on the streets..
However this school was looked upon as boys who couldn't make it which was not the case..
Many of these boys were far smarter then the average Bochur in the system..
Unfortunately it was very hard to fundraise for a yeshiva which was so much needed and in the recession it closed down and that's when Parnassah Network was born to help Yungerlite who feel like failures because they can't provide and go thru similar challenges..
Take away!!
We need to stop commercializing our children's chinuch and married chidrens Parnassah's help identify each ones strength and help stengthen them..
One who looks down on others deserves to be looked down on from others...

I was taught that if you cant learn all day, its because the Yetzer Hara is beating you and that in reality all Yidden should learn all day if they have the proper Yetzer. I am not surprised that this yeshiva closed since it was not "sparkly" unlike one of the yeshivas that CLAIM to produce the next person capable of writing meforshim. One thing we can learn from Goyim is tolerance for those that are not like you.

114

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #77  
Crazykanoiy Says:

I understand that the parents are grieving but it is NOT an excuse to go about blaming teachers, rabbeim, morahs and principles. Most educators put in their heart and soul for the success of their students. Anyone who attends any chinuch conference can attest that the majority of sessions are spent discussing how to reach out to the weakest of students.

It is unfair for parents to assign blame in public when hardly anyone is privy to the full circumstances of Malky's unfortunate case. Sentiments such as "lock up all teachers..." are horribly wrong and revolting even when expressed in pain. It is equally absurd to attribute this tragedy to the comments of a second grade teacher.

It is clear from this article that Malky suffered from learning disabilities and schools by their very definition are focused on learning. The fact that the "system" did not work for Malky - and again we are not privy to what help the schools did offer and what else was going on in her life - does not rationalize the wholesale criticism portrayed in this article.

To # 77 let me tell you a true story.My daughter was not doing very well in all girl school (only one in town). The school demanded that I take her to see Dr. David P. for evaluation .I took her to see Dr. P. After spending one hour with me and over 2 hours with my daughter, I was told that there is NOTHING wrong with my daughter and that there is a problem with the school.Dr. P. asked me to arrange for him to have a meeting at the school with ALL of her teachers and the principal of the school .At the meeting which my wife and I attended ,Dr P.told ALL THE TEACHERS AND THE PRINCIPAL that he had spend time with my daughter and in his OVER 20 year of doing this there is NOTHING wrong with her.He suggested that my daughter seat moved to the front of the class room since several girls in the back room were trouble makers.Almost ALL the teachers said that they CAN NOT do that ,since they have "their " girls that they need to be in the front.Dr P. asked the principal to get involved and he said no.The meeting ended as Dr P. and my wife and I left the school Dr P. said in the OVER 20 years of doing this he has never had a school deny his advice.My daughter is not frum now.

115

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:51 PM maxedout Says:

Reply to #112  
Ex kollel working guy Says:

The real problem is the hungarians and their exclusiveness. And when I say Hungarian I don't mean per say where you or zayada stamed from. Its a loosely held term. (my mom was born in Hungary). This notion that as society thrived we are better than our neighbor. And they have a chutzpa to call it "bal habatish". As if its somewhat kosher because we are "bal Habatish" and seek a "bal habatish" shiduuch who would never use a clear plastic table cloth on top of my cloth table cloth . (except for when noone is looking. Yes I have been at "ba; habatsih" homes who even use plastic dishes when noone sees. Its not about shabbos it about showing off.) And it does not stop at shidduchim. Our schools also need to be " Bal Habatish" Of course the schools need to be Torahdik Bal habatsih. So we need a few choshva talmidi chahcimim or rosh yeshvas too in our school. But good luck if you are a shlochy accountant. The hungarins started this when they founded yeshivas noviminsk as an exclusive yeshiva for metzyonim and it just metastasized and became the norm.

You can still find real yeshvisha neby yeshivas with no hungarians who take all.

Thank you so much for your idiotic drivel. I see you accomplished a lot in Kollel.
The farkakte litvaks in Fakewood cannot hold a candle to the Hungarians that survived the camps. Nobody is more exclusive that Fakewood. Hashem Yerachem if you set foot in that stupid town without a white shirt.

116

 Jul 31, 2017 at 12:53 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #112  
Ex kollel working guy Says:

The real problem is the hungarians and their exclusiveness. And when I say Hungarian I don't mean per say where you or zayada stamed from. Its a loosely held term. (my mom was born in Hungary). This notion that as society thrived we are better than our neighbor. And they have a chutzpa to call it "bal habatish". As if its somewhat kosher because we are "bal Habatish" and seek a "bal habatish" shiduuch who would never use a clear plastic table cloth on top of my cloth table cloth . (except for when noone is looking. Yes I have been at "ba; habatsih" homes who even use plastic dishes when noone sees. Its not about shabbos it about showing off.) And it does not stop at shidduchim. Our schools also need to be " Bal Habatish" Of course the schools need to be Torahdik Bal habatsih. So we need a few choshva talmidi chahcimim or rosh yeshvas too in our school. But good luck if you are a shlochy accountant. The hungarins started this when they founded yeshivas noviminsk as an exclusive yeshiva for metzyonim and it just metastasized and became the norm.

You can still find real yeshvisha neby yeshivas with no hungarians who take all.

"You can still find real yeshvisha neby yeshivas with no hungarians who take all."

Yeh? Where? Please name those yeshivas who take all. I will wait for the list. Bet, you can't come up with even one. Thank you.

117

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:00 PM grandpajoe Says:

The yeshivas of today either for boys and girls have lost their direction, but it is not only them, it is klall yisroel - look at our yiddiesher world today - drugs and the 'new' personal issues, the shidduch crisis, the money issues today -
Where have we lost our way - there is NO MAJOR RABBINICAL leadership that can stand up an halt the madness !!!!!

118

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:04 PM System Says:

Our schools created a system that effectively works for the greatest spectrum of kids. Yes there are lots of things that need improvement and things the schools can do to make things better, but in the regard for special attention and kids that need extra care or kids that need their own space to succeed, they are limited by the amount of kids in classes and resources for extra staff.

The answer for this is for the "parents" to do their jobs by recognizing their child's needs and find the right system for your child (the second they see that the current place is not working) and not try to bent the whole school system to your child and blame everyone else, even if that means putting them in into a school that wouldn't be the parents first choice.

If there is anything that should be done by the greater community, its to create schools with smaller classes, create special classes in schools that teach on a slower and more tailored level, to create a fund to reimburse schools that hire rabbis and teachers with degrees or that went through training.

(Writing in a general manner)

119

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:06 PM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #77  
Crazykanoiy Says:

I understand that the parents are grieving but it is NOT an excuse to go about blaming teachers, rabbeim, morahs and principles. Most educators put in their heart and soul for the success of their students. Anyone who attends any chinuch conference can attest that the majority of sessions are spent discussing how to reach out to the weakest of students.

It is unfair for parents to assign blame in public when hardly anyone is privy to the full circumstances of Malky's unfortunate case. Sentiments such as "lock up all teachers..." are horribly wrong and revolting even when expressed in pain. It is equally absurd to attribute this tragedy to the comments of a second grade teacher.

It is clear from this article that Malky suffered from learning disabilities and schools by their very definition are focused on learning. The fact that the "system" did not work for Malky - and again we are not privy to what help the schools did offer and what else was going on in her life - does not rationalize the wholesale criticism portrayed in this article.

Do yourself a favor and just SHUTUP! Another person who is PART of the problem! For years we all know of the coverup's etc... Yes all the blame on our leadership! ALL of it!

120

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:11 PM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #80  
triumphinwhitehouse Says:

when has the Aguda been responsive the AVERAGE YOSEF's issue? The Aguda IS the epitomy of the inside game, people with the trifecta yichus, money and Yeshiva name recognition control and sit on the board of this org, who when it comes to politicians will claim they speak for us of course.

Agree. The thing is they have the power to make REAL change. If they do not do anything then we need a group of people (Rabbonim and askanim who care about the Klal and not their wallets) to take them on!!

121

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #65  
FBF37 Says:

Another clueless frum chochom. The issue here is not the drugs. It's what led for the individual to take the drugs. Why is this so hard to understand? Read the article above and listen to the interview.

I don't believe a lot of what the article is saying. I understand that it's Summer time and everyone is worried about getting their own kids accepted to schools, but just because the grieving parents are pointing fingers doesn't make what they say to be true. Much drug abuse is because of low self-esteen. Low self-esteem is mostly a function of bad parenting, not bad schooling. Outside influences can make a difference, but ask any social worker or psychologist what is the primary overwhelming factor for low self-esteem. Also, if it were really the schools to blame, how many drug overdoses do you think there would be? More than one? The niftar was 20 years old? How many years out of school?

122

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:16 PM fat36 Says:

Reply to #25  
weeping Says:

I would love to know which teacher told Malky you belong in grade 1, I wish her the same result to her child, or grandchild.

If you want to get more heated under the collar I was talking to a friend of mine who his kid went off the way and told me that his teacher told him how could you study homework with your father if he's a bigger idiot than you.The system is sick I suffer till today and I hear it ringing in my head every day of my life from every teacher you will never amount to nothing that's all I heard I never heard a good word from anybody or or had help from anyone sick sick system

123

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:18 PM ShatzMatz Says:

These parents really dedicated their life to their special daughter. May Hashem heal their loss.

It is good that the father is speaking out about the struggles people go through with schools for their children. It is an issue we all struggle with. Although the solution is complicated since the schools are mostly private enterprises that don't owe us anything. In most cases the problem is US. We designed this system and subject ourselves to it.

However, this particular case cannot be a comparison to what ordinary people suffer ever day. This is a wealthy family that had the wherewithal to go to extreme measures to help their daughter. In most cases we are familiar with, this amount of money could alleviate the problem.

Although the parents refuse to acknowledge it, the case of their daughter seems to be a case of learning difficulties compounded by mental health issues compounded by addiction issues. This poor girl suffered from an incurable disease akin to cancer. She and her family are blameless. But in the end it is a health tragedy and nothing more. People need to recognize that and not confuse the issue.

124

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:18 PM Fed Up Says:

Its clear that the majority is agreement that something is horribly broken - I feel like hanging signs in front of our schools and yeshivas that say "welcome to north korea" - Everyone knows that the emperor has no clothes yet we keep our mouths shut like good citizens since the ones that complain get killed (thrown out).

125

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #124  
Fed Up Says:

Its clear that the majority is agreement that something is horribly broken - I feel like hanging signs in front of our schools and yeshivas that say "welcome to north korea" - Everyone knows that the emperor has no clothes yet we keep our mouths shut like good citizens since the ones that complain get killed (thrown out).

The first sign needs to placed on the doors of Yeshiva Gedolah Ohr Yisrael in Marine Park known as Zucker's. This is a school that opened to help the struggling student. What a noble idea. Only, they don't know anymore what they are all about or where their future lies. This school is run by nasty people who kick the kids around on a daily basis. This is not chinuch and parents should run as far away from this school as possible.

126

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:29 PM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #108  
Anonymous Says:

I'm certainly a frum chochom. I was one of those elite students that schools drool over. I come from a family that has only had brilliant children. Our only problem in school was the ayin horah from the jealous wannabees. Even the few in my family that went OTD remain very respectful of Yiddishkeit and have made major contributions to the sciences and liberal arts.

My sense is that people (like you) on this site are ignoring / denying the drug pusher issue because they aren't writing from a place of true sincere feelings for the victim. Rather, my suspicion is that they are writing out of a selfish motivation to improve their own family's situation, and since they don't see drugs as a personal threat, they don't care.

To support my hypothesis, I ask you to compare what is your own reaction to this tragedy to what was your reaction to a missing child case, like Leiby Kletzky. That's a scenario that a selfishly motivated parent will worry about, and sure enough there was no hypothetical discussion of mental health reform, just a rush to find the child ASAP, and prosecute the perp ASAP.

My conclusion is that you really don't care for this victim, only your own smallpersonal circle.

If that is how you think there is nothing to discuss. I will just say you have it all wrong. Have a good day.

127

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:32 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #52  
SigiB Says:

Thank you for posting the news about the girl who overdosed. I had a friend a talmid chochom and all around wise man who told me frimkeit wuithout rachmim is rishis, for someone like me who waS 4 YEARS in concentration camp it is hard tp swallow

I wish you arichus yamim, sir or ma'am. you should never know of tzoris

128

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:33 PM Ex Kollel Working Guy Says:

Reply to #115  
maxedout Says:

Thank you so much for your idiotic drivel. I see you accomplished a lot in Kollel.
The farkakte litvaks in Fakewood cannot hold a candle to the Hungarians that survived the camps. Nobody is more exclusive that Fakewood. Hashem Yerachem if you set foot in that stupid town without a white shirt.

As I stated specifically, its not the "country" orgin my friend. And my grandparents were hungarian holocuast survivors. Its more a mentality.

Now to address your "fakewood" issues. The Fakeness of Lakewood started when the Hungarians came to town. There is a new sickness where its in style by hungarains to be "yeshvish". yes thats what novominsk is. Let me remind you that before the humgarians came like pre 1990's it was OK to wear a blue shirt. The "hungarain yeshivish" created a chasidus around being yeshvish. This is a fact that you can choose to ignore. The "old time" Lakewooders are the simplest people around who have not an ounce of fakeness in them. And there mosdos still have no problem taking russians and israeli nebachels.

The biggest problems in Lakewood arise from the "yeshivish Hungarian" parent body mosdos.

I know this for a fact. You can deny it but these are the facts.

Disclaimer: I use the word Hungarian Loosely to describe a type not a country of orgin per say.

129

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:35 PM Ex Kollel working Guy Says:

Reply to #116  
Ina Says:

"You can still find real yeshvisha neby yeshivas with no hungarians who take all."

Yeh? Where? Please name those yeshivas who take all. I will wait for the list. Bet, you can't come up with even one. Thank you.

Yes I can. Its hard to come up with one. But I can. Its called cheder bnei torah. Look into it. Its not my type because its too yeshivish for me. But they take anyone whose kid they can work with

130

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:52 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #25  
weeping Says:

I would love to know which teacher told Malky you belong in grade 1, I wish her the same result to her child, or grandchild.

hashem has a chesbon of everything, we little people are not here to judge his ways.

131

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #52  
SigiB Says:

Thank you for posting the news about the girl who overdosed. I had a friend a talmid chochom and all around wise man who told me frimkeit wuithout rachmim is rishis, for someone like me who waS 4 YEARS in concentration camp it is hard tp swallow

it is upsetting to read names that were dropped that elicit only rechilus and lashon hara any day, but especially today, which is mamesh erev churban bais hamikdash. have we not learned anything from our sinas chinam?? what is the purpose of reading kinos tonight and tomorrow when this is fresh on our minds??? burning the name dropper's soul throughout??

of the 124 comments above, we are all, k'echad, in agreement that something must be done.

so if everyone feels the same exact way, why isn't anyone doing anything about this travesty? why not post suggestions that are concrete and realistic? in reality, come september, our children will iyh start their new school year with the same old problems if nothing will be done. and, unfortunately, all the Malky's in our midst will continue to fade from our radar. but, help can be done!

if i may drop a positive name it would be Ohr Nava run by the inspiring Rabbi Wallerstein, who dedicates his life to save yiddishe neshamos, like Malky a"h. he is in desperate need to maintain a new rehab facility upstate. why not donate, to this worthy cause?? perhaps one neshama can be saved and a whold world to follow

132

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:54 PM Crazykanoiy Says:

Reply to #88  
Had Eough Says:

What school do you represent - those of us on the outside know who is to blame.

Have you ever attended a Torah Umesorah teachers conference? Have you ever attended teacher workshops? Of course it is always easier to just blame others for your problems. The system is not perfect and it will never be. Human beings are imperfect but the fact is that there are people in the trenches putting in their kochos ever day and their are others who do nothing but of course "know who is to blame"

133

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:57 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #129  
Ex Kollel working Guy Says:

Yes I can. Its hard to come up with one. But I can. Its called cheder bnei torah. Look into it. Its not my type because its too yeshivish for me. But they take anyone whose kid they can work with

Is this school in Brooklyn? Would you please provide the location. Thank you.

134

 Jul 31, 2017 at 01:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #109  
Anonymous Says:

Sorry there are no excuses. Yu can't run away from the obvious facts. No matter who learning disabled a child is you don't deny a kid a education nor do you throw them out. Stop being so PC. Facts are yes schools focus on eduation and malky was not up to par. But so what??? Don't forget that the most important education is the middos and yiddishkiet. So yes malky would have been a faling kid in a school.She would have sat threw classes wasting her time perhaps. But she would have remained in a functional ehrlich society.

Yes the public is to balme period. There are no excuses.

How can you assign blame without knowing the full facts in this case? Are you privy to Malky's life story? How do you know what schools and teachers tried to do for her?

135

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #114  
Anonymous Says:

To # 77 let me tell you a true story.My daughter was not doing very well in all girl school (only one in town). The school demanded that I take her to see Dr. David P. for evaluation .I took her to see Dr. P. After spending one hour with me and over 2 hours with my daughter, I was told that there is NOTHING wrong with my daughter and that there is a problem with the school.Dr. P. asked me to arrange for him to have a meeting at the school with ALL of her teachers and the principal of the school .At the meeting which my wife and I attended ,Dr P.told ALL THE TEACHERS AND THE PRINCIPAL that he had spend time with my daughter and in his OVER 20 year of doing this there is NOTHING wrong with her.He suggested that my daughter seat moved to the front of the class room since several girls in the back room were trouble makers.Almost ALL the teachers said that they CAN NOT do that ,since they have "their " girls that they need to be in the front.Dr P. asked the principal to get involved and he said no.The meeting ended as Dr P. and my wife and I left the school Dr P. said in the OVER 20 years of doing this he has never had a school deny his advice.My daughter is not frum now.

Did you try a different school?

136

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:01 PM lazer Says:

how come with so many smart people on here NO one can open a Yeshiva or School that will accept every child? i can tell you all that the fault lies on most parents , because they are the ones who call the Principals and Roshei Yeshivas that if you accept Bucher or girl JOHN DOE they will take their child out.
Now if the parent is a big supporter of the yeshiva of course the Menhal will fall for the pressure. Bottom line BLAME ourselves then the Rebbes and Teachers.

137

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #119  
FBF37 Says:

Do yourself a favor and just SHUTUP! Another person who is PART of the problem! For years we all know of the coverup's etc... Yes all the blame on our leadership! ALL of it!

Very intelligent comment. Try sticking to facts. Bottom line you have no idea what happened in this case. You read one side of a story and decided to use it as a way to vent your hatred for the system.

138

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:02 PM hurt and pained Says:

I am very involved in an organization for teens-with-potential, and I have had the zechus to have hosted malky in my house, and enjoy her infectious smile. let me tell you a few things. 1) my second daughter is a graduate of NYU's Steinhardt school of Education, from where she earned two bachelors degrees, and one master degree, spending within firing range of $200,000 for this tremendous accomplishment. for what??? to become a teacher!!! correct!!! to BECOME A TEACHER!!!!!!!!! you see? her teaching qualifications didn't come from going to Israel for 10 months, and spending 6 of those on tiyulim, or at café rimon. in fact, she had to get up early to be at school, a 1.5 hour schlepp, or even earlier, at 530am, to go and student teach in a variety of NYC public schools. It was on those front lines that she learned about ALL kinds of kids, from ALL walks of life. yes, THATS how one becomes a teacher!!!!! rejecting and outing down kids is not teaching, its murder. it dinei nefashos. which requires a Sanhedrin, and as Rav Ovadia Yosef ZTL said, that since we don't have a Sanhedrin today, a school cannot expel kids.

139

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:09 PM Rationalist Says:

Reply to #121  
Anonymous Says:

I don't believe a lot of what the article is saying. I understand that it's Summer time and everyone is worried about getting their own kids accepted to schools, but just because the grieving parents are pointing fingers doesn't make what they say to be true. Much drug abuse is because of low self-esteen. Low self-esteem is mostly a function of bad parenting, not bad schooling. Outside influences can make a difference, but ask any social worker or psychologist what is the primary overwhelming factor for low self-esteem. Also, if it were really the schools to blame, how many drug overdoses do you think there would be? More than one? The niftar was 20 years old? How many years out of school?

Much of this discussion is an over simplification of complex matters presented with a one sided critical view. Perhaps a more robust open forum with input from educators, psychologists, parents and students would be in order.

140

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #114  
Anonymous Says:

To # 77 let me tell you a true story.My daughter was not doing very well in all girl school (only one in town). The school demanded that I take her to see Dr. David P. for evaluation .I took her to see Dr. P. After spending one hour with me and over 2 hours with my daughter, I was told that there is NOTHING wrong with my daughter and that there is a problem with the school.Dr. P. asked me to arrange for him to have a meeting at the school with ALL of her teachers and the principal of the school .At the meeting which my wife and I attended ,Dr P.told ALL THE TEACHERS AND THE PRINCIPAL that he had spend time with my daughter and in his OVER 20 year of doing this there is NOTHING wrong with her.He suggested that my daughter seat moved to the front of the class room since several girls in the back room were trouble makers.Almost ALL the teachers said that they CAN NOT do that ,since they have "their " girls that they need to be in the front.Dr P. asked the principal to get involved and he said no.The meeting ended as Dr P. and my wife and I left the school Dr P. said in the OVER 20 years of doing this he has never had a school deny his advice.My daughter is not frum now.

in todays world its leider a normal thing you cant do anything! we can only ask hashem to bring meshiach because life is unbearable.

141

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:16 PM hurt and pained Says:

to continue, my other daughter was told in grade 7, by her morah, in front of the whole class, that she needs to be in special education. when confronted by my wife at the PTA meeting, about whether she has any formal teaching qualifications, the teacher started to cry. what became of my daughter?????? let me tell you!!! this girl that needed special ed according to one teacher, and was told by another that she would never amounts to anything, went to a private university to study economics and health care administration, went on to receive every single award that the school offered, including being invited to join the presidents club; only 28 out of 23000 student got that invite. she was inducted into the international honor society for economics, has a 4.0 GPA in her MBA, is now a nursing home executive, overseeing 30 home, with around 10,000 employees. when schools will learn that educating children is not like making latkes, and that being a teacher requires more education than the plumber you let into your house, but only after you made sure that he really knows what hes doing, and that a yiddisher neshomo is a malleable, precious gift, perhaps then will we stop being elitists

142

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #134  
Anonymous Says:

How can you assign blame without knowing the full facts in this case? Are you privy to Malky's life story? How do you know what schools and teachers tried to do for her?

Because there is no excuse to kick her out.

Its irrlevant what they "tried" to do for her. Why did you throw her out?

And what did the school that rejected her before she ever started try to do for her?

Its obvious schools are to blame.

143

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:25 PM pained and hurt Says:

to continue, and to give an example of the filth that runs our schools....when I took my son to Mesivtah Ateres Yaakov in Cedarhurst for high school, the schmutz and scourge called yafee tells me that he is not accepting Sephardim. YES!!!!!!! WHAT YOU READ!!!!!! I AM NOT ACCEPTING SEPHARDIM!!!!!!!! I guess by Har Sinai, only tier I Ashkenazim, and no Sephardim were present. I am not jealous of these pieces of filth!!! they will have to give din vecheshbon, after 120, if they make it that far.....

144

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:25 PM chana Says:

Reply to #93  
Anonymous Says:

Oh yeah stamar/ beis rochel would take my lifisha duaghter? Would they have taken malky who was hiemsh yet not fully satmar? I doubt it. The have their own exclusive mishags

i totally agree with you. do you know how many victims are from the frum satmar school

145

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:26 PM Ex Kollel Working Guy Says:

Reply to #133  
Ina Says:

Is this school in Brooklyn? Would you please provide the location. Thank you.

Its in Lakewood . Google the address

146

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:29 PM Ex Kollel Working Guy Says:

Reply to #136  
lazer Says:

how come with so many smart people on here NO one can open a Yeshiva or School that will accept every child? i can tell you all that the fault lies on most parents , because they are the ones who call the Principals and Roshei Yeshivas that if you accept Bucher or girl JOHN DOE they will take their child out.
Now if the parent is a big supporter of the yeshiva of course the Menhal will fall for the pressure. Bottom line BLAME ourselves then the Rebbes and Teachers.

Yes. Great point. Our grandparents holocaust survivors did not care about the "parent body". Today the "parents" became hungarianized.

147

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:32 PM ercsd Says:

Maybe these kids would thrive in public schools . The teachers are trained better. The classes are divided up to help kids with similar problems.

148

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:35 PM maxedout Says:

Reply to #141  
hurt and pained Says:

to continue, my other daughter was told in grade 7, by her morah, in front of the whole class, that she needs to be in special education. when confronted by my wife at the PTA meeting, about whether she has any formal teaching qualifications, the teacher started to cry. what became of my daughter?????? let me tell you!!! this girl that needed special ed according to one teacher, and was told by another that she would never amounts to anything, went to a private university to study economics and health care administration, went on to receive every single award that the school offered, including being invited to join the presidents club; only 28 out of 23000 student got that invite. she was inducted into the international honor society for economics, has a 4.0 GPA in her MBA, is now a nursing home executive, overseeing 30 home, with around 10,000 employees. when schools will learn that educating children is not like making latkes, and that being a teacher requires more education than the plumber you let into your house, but only after you made sure that he really knows what hes doing, and that a yiddisher neshomo is a malleable, precious gift, perhaps then will we stop being elitists

May you continue to shep nachas from your daughter (and all your children). And be very proud that she was able to rise above this idiocy that we call "jewish education". I know of someone who sent a son to one of the popular elitist mesivtas in Flatbush.He asked the Rosh Yeshiva why the secular education was garbage. The RY said "I don't hold the boys should go to college". So the guy said, well, you are charging me tuition for it, so if you are not providing it, then give me my tuition money back. If the yeshiva is charging you tuition for an education, demand it. Whether of not someone goes to college after high school is the not the business of the RY.

149

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #132  
Crazykanoiy Says:

Have you ever attended a Torah Umesorah teachers conference? Have you ever attended teacher workshops? Of course it is always easier to just blame others for your problems. The system is not perfect and it will never be. Human beings are imperfect but the fact is that there are people in the trenches putting in their kochos ever day and their are others who do nothing but of course "know who is to blame"

seriously? you think attending a one or two day workshop qualifies you to teach? Would you go to a doctor who skipped medical school and just attended a medical conference. No one is saying that teachers have poor intentions - they are undertrained and unprepared to deal with todays children who need more than a teacher fresh our of seminary or kollel can provide. An untrained medical professional who kills a patient is responsible so is an untrained teacher or rebbe.

150

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:37 PM sammy Says:

Reply to #139  
Rationalist Says:

Much of this discussion is an over simplification of complex matters presented with a one sided critical view. Perhaps a more robust open forum with input from educators, psychologists, parents and students would be in order.

Unfortunately, you won't get them to even discuss the issue.

151

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:38 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #138  
hurt and pained Says:

I am very involved in an organization for teens-with-potential, and I have had the zechus to have hosted malky in my house, and enjoy her infectious smile. let me tell you a few things. 1) my second daughter is a graduate of NYU's Steinhardt school of Education, from where she earned two bachelors degrees, and one master degree, spending within firing range of $200,000 for this tremendous accomplishment. for what??? to become a teacher!!! correct!!! to BECOME A TEACHER!!!!!!!!! you see? her teaching qualifications didn't come from going to Israel for 10 months, and spending 6 of those on tiyulim, or at café rimon. in fact, she had to get up early to be at school, a 1.5 hour schlepp, or even earlier, at 530am, to go and student teach in a variety of NYC public schools. It was on those front lines that she learned about ALL kinds of kids, from ALL walks of life. yes, THATS how one becomes a teacher!!!!! rejecting and outing down kids is not teaching, its murder. it dinei nefashos. which requires a Sanhedrin, and as Rav Ovadia Yosef ZTL said, that since we don't have a Sanhedrin today, a school cannot expel kids.

Bingo - training, training, training.

152

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #73  
KZler Says:

This tragedy is is a segment of a general malady afflicting us.

We worry too much about the length of the skirt, we appoint menahlim or mnenaheloth of institutions for which they Are not fit, but have someone on the board who backs them, the child of a person on a scholarship is not less deserving than a child whose parent cannot pay full tuition.

Baltmore had a Rabbi Benyamin Steinberg a’h , an educator and a tsaddik unfortunately he was niftar early due to Ca of pancreas .

uta should see this.... its meant for them

153

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:48 PM Ex Kollel Working Guy Says:

Reply to #149  
Anonymous Says:

seriously? you think attending a one or two day workshop qualifies you to teach? Would you go to a doctor who skipped medical school and just attended a medical conference. No one is saying that teachers have poor intentions - they are undertrained and unprepared to deal with todays children who need more than a teacher fresh our of seminary or kollel can provide. An untrained medical professional who kills a patient is responsible so is an untrained teacher or rebbe.

Most rabbeim today are required to take a 1/2 year training course by torah umesora prior to becoming a rebbe. Its not one or two day workshops.

154

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #77  
Crazykanoiy Says:

I understand that the parents are grieving but it is NOT an excuse to go about blaming teachers, rabbeim, morahs and principles. Most educators put in their heart and soul for the success of their students. Anyone who attends any chinuch conference can attest that the majority of sessions are spent discussing how to reach out to the weakest of students.

It is unfair for parents to assign blame in public when hardly anyone is privy to the full circumstances of Malky's unfortunate case. Sentiments such as "lock up all teachers..." are horribly wrong and revolting even when expressed in pain. It is equally absurd to attribute this tragedy to the comments of a second grade teacher.

It is clear from this article that Malky suffered from learning disabilities and schools by their very definition are focused on learning. The fact that the "system" did not work for Malky - and again we are not privy to what help the schools did offer and what else was going on in her life - does not rationalize the wholesale criticism portrayed in this article.

You happen to be wrong, and denial of facts. No, I don't advocate locking up all teachers. But you are unaware of the dynamics of childhood development, and definitely ignorant about the grave damage that can be done to the emotional development of a young child. Yes, the public shaming in second grade is abusive, with consequences happening up to many years later. The system did not just "not work" for Malky, but the system punished her and rejected her. That is never acceptable, and is antithetical to an institution that purports to teach Torah. Malky was not as unfortunate a case as the horrible dysfunction of the system that is obligated to help her grow.

As for heart and soul being invested in chinuch, that is certainly true for some, even many. But there is a glaring percentage that bring their egos to work, and are not focused on the success of every single student. Those teachers and rebbeim need jobs in other fields where they cannot damage anyone.

155

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:49 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #145  
Ex Kollel Working Guy Says:

Its in Lakewood . Google the address

Yes, but I live in Brooklyn. There is a crisis in Brooklyn as there is not even one high school that accepts all children. They are all vying for metzuyonim!

156

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:51 PM Ex Kollel Working Guy Says:

Reply to #153  
Ex Kollel Working Guy Says:

Most rabbeim today are required to take a 1/2 year training course by torah umesora prior to becoming a rebbe. Its not one or two day workshops.

Thats 1 to 2 years not a half year

157

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:53 PM hernoor Says:

I'm reading all these comments, some of them full of hate towards our mosdos and wonder why their kids are not in public school if it's that bad. Am I sticking up for the models? No. I have tried talking to principals, teachers and the menahel of a school that it unfair the amount of material that is taught by uninspiring teachers in a way that has to be memorized. Most students, even those who got high marks on their tests, will forget subjects that are not used throughout life. And for those students who don't excellent att memorization, their entire school life is gehinim. It is unfair that creative, intelligent students cannot get EDUCATION in music, dance and so forth. Only boring history of anti-Semitic European countries like France, do students have to memorize numerous dates. This is senseless. Instead of building up the character of students, they are forced to memorize extraneous data that has 0 impact in their lives. On top of that, the hours spent studying irrevelent subjects cause the students to be very immature and not fully developed emotionally. Many students today are very loud and in constant search of more fun, acting incredibly wild when they get a chance to, like in camp.

NEVERTHELESS, while the schools need to stop with the stupidy of cramming unecassary information down students throats, the bottom line is that there are many factors that lead to drug overdose and deviant behavior which has little to do with schools. To begin with, I tell my kids that whether they like it or not, they need to follow the school's rules and if they really need to do something that is not against halacha, then they should do it in a manner that one could understand why it's done. ( like seeing kosher DVD's even if the school has a rule against it but everyone is doing it anyway) They should not do b'Davos. Girls need to behave and act in a tzniusdige way even if you think that's not total halacha. Many women and girls wear legging

158

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:54 PM heeb Says:

Reply to #135  
Anonymous Says:

Did you try a different school?

let me answer your question, an extremely insensitive, ignorant, and stupid one. I had a similar story with my son - a genius with ADHD, who was told by his 'rebbi' in grade 5 that 'in everybody's class you are from the bachurei chemed, but in mine, you are from the bachurei chamor', among many other terribly destructive comments. He was also kicked out by the 'menahel' for misbehavior. Wait! let me rephrase that, he told my 11 year old son, 'call your mother, and tell her to pick you up and not bring you back until they have a plan for you'. the school psychologist offered up THIS wonderful piece of advice.....'up the medication!!! up the medication!!!' lets just say, that both the rebbi and the so-called menahel have been fired, and the stupid psychologist would have ended up with the same fate, had she been employed by the school, instead of the district. and yes, I DID try another school....its called the Local public school, where he thrived, and succeeded. so please, before you come up with any further ingenious questions, please rethink it, and assume that the parents and doctors combined, have at least the same brain-bandwidth as you, if not a little more.

159

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #143  
pained and hurt Says:

to continue, and to give an example of the filth that runs our schools....when I took my son to Mesivtah Ateres Yaakov in Cedarhurst for high school, the schmutz and scourge called yafee tells me that he is not accepting Sephardim. YES!!!!!!! WHAT YOU READ!!!!!! I AM NOT ACCEPTING SEPHARDIM!!!!!!!! I guess by Har Sinai, only tier I Ashkenazim, and no Sephardim were present. I am not jealous of these pieces of filth!!! they will have to give din vecheshbon, after 120, if they make it that far.....

just when i was about to commend you for rising above all odds (second daughter comment), i lost respect for you. in fact, you sound like the elitists you bash in your first post. how dare you drop a name on this forum?

for the record, i have no idea who this rabbi yafee (personally) is, but shame on you for tooting your horn and bashing a man who by all accounts has a shem tov. think of his family, his friends, his collegues, his staff, his talmidim, his parent body, but most of all HIM before you bash him!!

with an attitude like your, I WOULD throw you out of my school!

160

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:56 PM Bright One Says:

Reply to #142  
Anonymous Says:

Because there is no excuse to kick her out.

Its irrlevant what they "tried" to do for her. Why did you throw her out?

And what did the school that rejected her before she ever started try to do for her?

Its obvious schools are to blame.

How do you know?

161

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:56 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #147  
ercsd Says:

Maybe these kids would thrive in public schools . The teachers are trained better. The classes are divided up to help kids with similar problems.

" Maybe these kids would thrive in public schools..."
Really? How could you! The only future for our people is in our Torah education. This is what I have said previously. The goal of a Yiddishe chinuch is to turn out a Yiddishe dor, generation who wish to know the Ribbono Shel Olam. Not to have the children slogging long hours with difficult subject matter. But to instill a love for Yiddishkeit and a pride in our people. In this, we are failing miserably. Please, never suggest public school again.

162

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:57 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #108  
Anonymous Says:

I'm certainly a frum chochom. I was one of those elite students that schools drool over. I come from a family that has only had brilliant children. Our only problem in school was the ayin horah from the jealous wannabees. Even the few in my family that went OTD remain very respectful of Yiddishkeit and have made major contributions to the sciences and liberal arts.

My sense is that people (like you) on this site are ignoring / denying the drug pusher issue because they aren't writing from a place of true sincere feelings for the victim. Rather, my suspicion is that they are writing out of a selfish motivation to improve their own family's situation, and since they don't see drugs as a personal threat, they don't care.

To support my hypothesis, I ask you to compare what is your own reaction to this tragedy to what was your reaction to a missing child case, like Leiby Kletzky. That's a scenario that a selfishly motivated parent will worry about, and sure enough there was no hypothetical discussion of mental health reform, just a rush to find the child ASAP, and prosecute the perp ASAP.

My conclusion is that you really don't care for this victim, only your own smallpersonal circle.

Your brilliance is not without its limitations.

The drug pusher is NOT the issue. While law enforcement needs to take necessary action to eliminate this scourge, Malky's death was not caused by the drug pusher. In all probability, there was no drug pusher, but a drug provider. The pushing came from the system that insured she lived in the street, being miserable 24/7, hating her life.

Drugs do not tempt people to leave yeshivos. Once someone leaves the welcoming of yeshivos, they seek solace somewhere, and drugs offers that (a dangerous illusion). If we keep our kids within the confines of our community, making them feel welcome there, they will not turn to drugs.

Lastly, not all OTD kids who were rejected from the "system" turn to drugs. many seek other escapades in life. But the common denominator is they are escaping from us. Why? Not because of the drug pusher.

163

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #143  
pained and hurt Says:

to continue, and to give an example of the filth that runs our schools....when I took my son to Mesivtah Ateres Yaakov in Cedarhurst for high school, the schmutz and scourge called yafee tells me that he is not accepting Sephardim. YES!!!!!!! WHAT YOU READ!!!!!! I AM NOT ACCEPTING SEPHARDIM!!!!!!!! I guess by Har Sinai, only tier I Ashkenazim, and no Sephardim were present. I am not jealous of these pieces of filth!!! they will have to give din vecheshbon, after 120, if they make it that far.....

and, for a second record, i do not have any shaychus to any school, other than bh being a parent.

if i did, i would show you the door and hope you wouldn't hit your head on the way out. your attitude is pompous and full of gayva.

164

 Jul 31, 2017 at 02:58 PM pained and hurt Says:

Reply to #148  
maxedout Says:

May you continue to shep nachas from your daughter (and all your children). And be very proud that she was able to rise above this idiocy that we call "jewish education". I know of someone who sent a son to one of the popular elitist mesivtas in Flatbush.He asked the Rosh Yeshiva why the secular education was garbage. The RY said "I don't hold the boys should go to college". So the guy said, well, you are charging me tuition for it, so if you are not providing it, then give me my tuition money back. If the yeshiva is charging you tuition for an education, demand it. Whether of not someone goes to college after high school is the not the business of the RY.

thank you for the kind words!!!!! and you from yours!!! and yes, only in the frum, 'chinuch' world, can you pay for something that you wont get, and then consider yourself lucky for having been blessed with that wonderful opportunity.......

165

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:00 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #149  
Anonymous Says:

seriously? you think attending a one or two day workshop qualifies you to teach? Would you go to a doctor who skipped medical school and just attended a medical conference. No one is saying that teachers have poor intentions - they are undertrained and unprepared to deal with todays children who need more than a teacher fresh our of seminary or kollel can provide. An untrained medical professional who kills a patient is responsible so is an untrained teacher or rebbe.

You are totally missing the point. My point is that teachers and educators are focused on the weaker students as is evident from any mechanchim conference. The drivel and bashing espoused in this thread would have you believe that they couldnt care less about weaker students. Furthermore Aish Dos is an intensive teacher training program run by TU in Lakewood and the conferences do a great job with continuing education just as is the case in any other profession.

166

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:00 PM pained and hurt Says:

Reply to #153  
Ex Kollel Working Guy Says:

Most rabbeim today are required to take a 1/2 year training course by torah umesora prior to becoming a rebbe. Its not one or two day workshops.

my daughter went to undergrad, and grad school for 5 years to become a NYS certified teacher. Not sure how torah umesorah manages to cram 5 years into 6 months.....I would have become a doctor years ago, if that was possible!

167

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #121  
Anonymous Says:

I don't believe a lot of what the article is saying. I understand that it's Summer time and everyone is worried about getting their own kids accepted to schools, but just because the grieving parents are pointing fingers doesn't make what they say to be true. Much drug abuse is because of low self-esteen. Low self-esteem is mostly a function of bad parenting, not bad schooling. Outside influences can make a difference, but ask any social worker or psychologist what is the primary overwhelming factor for low self-esteem. Also, if it were really the schools to blame, how many drug overdoses do you think there would be? More than one? The niftar was 20 years old? How many years out of school?

Low self esteem is as attributable to school as it is to home. Both environments are relevant to the child during the main years of emotional growth. It is foolish to ignore that truth. School is not an "outside influence" The child is there for around 8 hours a day.

The other omission from your analysis is that the school clearly and openly rejected and embarrassed the child. This experience is traumatic to anyone, and the abuser is pronounced guilty. Your defensiveness of the criminals and murderers involved in this is dishonest, and that is an understatement.

168

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #153  
Ex Kollel Working Guy Says:

Most rabbeim today are required to take a 1/2 year training course by torah umesora prior to becoming a rebbe. Its not one or two day workshops.

what a joke - thanks for proving my point. You should need a degree in early childhood education and phycology to qualify to enter a classroom. Anything less is malpractice. One semester of training from Torah Umesorah is dangerous. you think you know something when you don't. A little information is very dangerous. Go sell insurance if don't take your training seriously.

169

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #154  
Anonymous Says:

You happen to be wrong, and denial of facts. No, I don't advocate locking up all teachers. But you are unaware of the dynamics of childhood development, and definitely ignorant about the grave damage that can be done to the emotional development of a young child. Yes, the public shaming in second grade is abusive, with consequences happening up to many years later. The system did not just "not work" for Malky, but the system punished her and rejected her. That is never acceptable, and is antithetical to an institution that purports to teach Torah. Malky was not as unfortunate a case as the horrible dysfunction of the system that is obligated to help her grow.

As for heart and soul being invested in chinuch, that is certainly true for some, even many. But there is a glaring percentage that bring their egos to work, and are not focused on the success of every single student. Those teachers and rebbeim need jobs in other fields where they cannot damage anyone.

Bravo - you are spot on.

170

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:07 PM Rationalist Says:

Reply to #149  
Anonymous Says:

seriously? you think attending a one or two day workshop qualifies you to teach? Would you go to a doctor who skipped medical school and just attended a medical conference. No one is saying that teachers have poor intentions - they are undertrained and unprepared to deal with todays children who need more than a teacher fresh our of seminary or kollel can provide. An untrained medical professional who kills a patient is responsible so is an untrained teacher or rebbe.

The fact is that schools have progressed tremendously in addressing the needs of ALL students. Today virtually every school has a resource room for kids with special education needs. Most schools have guidance counselors and or school psychologists. ST, OT and PT are now provided in most schools. Our educators strive valiantly to educate their students. It is not easy, and no one claims to be perfect or infalliable.

However schools did NOT create mental illness nor should they be held responsible for it. It is ridiculous and unreasonable to expect educators to be able to heal those who suffer from the horrible scourge of mental illness.

171

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #123  
ShatzMatz Says:

These parents really dedicated their life to their special daughter. May Hashem heal their loss.

It is good that the father is speaking out about the struggles people go through with schools for their children. It is an issue we all struggle with. Although the solution is complicated since the schools are mostly private enterprises that don't owe us anything. In most cases the problem is US. We designed this system and subject ourselves to it.

However, this particular case cannot be a comparison to what ordinary people suffer ever day. This is a wealthy family that had the wherewithal to go to extreme measures to help their daughter. In most cases we are familiar with, this amount of money could alleviate the problem.

Although the parents refuse to acknowledge it, the case of their daughter seems to be a case of learning difficulties compounded by mental health issues compounded by addiction issues. This poor girl suffered from an incurable disease akin to cancer. She and her family are blameless. But in the end it is a health tragedy and nothing more. People need to recognize that and not confuse the issue.

You are not even close to the target. You describe this as a sad and tragic health issue. You have missed the point completely. Malky was a victim. She was shamed publicly, rejected, and prevented from having a safe environment. She was not a drug addict when her teacher murdered her spirit in second grade. It is not a random comparison when the Gemora compares public embarrassment to murder. And for those who might argue that this might pertain only to an adult, halacha says clearly that a child victim is the same issur.

This is not a health tragedy. That is a gross misrepresentation. You are trying to defend a broken system that has stripped the concern for the individual student out of the mission, and replaced it with some valueless image of success and academic excellence. We have a serious problem, one that contributed is a large way to the loss of this neshomoh. What are we ready to do to stop the plague?

172

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:09 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #142  
Anonymous Says:

Because there is no excuse to kick her out.

Its irrlevant what they "tried" to do for her. Why did you throw her out?

And what did the school that rejected her before she ever started try to do for her?

Its obvious schools are to blame.

Maybe contact the school and ask them. (Though I doubt they would share info with you) before jumping to your own ill informed conclusions. Perhaps there is another side here. I don't know but neither do you.

173

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #159  
Anonymous Says:

just when i was about to commend you for rising above all odds (second daughter comment), i lost respect for you. in fact, you sound like the elitists you bash in your first post. how dare you drop a name on this forum?

for the record, i have no idea who this rabbi yafee (personally) is, but shame on you for tooting your horn and bashing a man who by all accounts has a shem tov. think of his family, his friends, his collegues, his staff, his talmidim, his parent body, but most of all HIM before you bash him!!

with an attitude like your, I WOULD throw you out of my school!

I know the rabbi personally - I can not speak to the story but he is a man of high character and a superb rebbi - how do I know this? I was a Talmud of his 30 years ago and he was a life saver. he was a miracle worker and is responsible for where I am today.

174

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #153  
Ex Kollel Working Guy Says:

Most rabbeim today are required to take a 1/2 year training course by torah umesora prior to becoming a rebbe. Its not one or two day workshops.

That is totally false. Firstly a 1/2 year training is wholly inadequate. But I ask you, who requires it? Torah Umesorah is a community based organization that does a great deal in providing opportunities for training, resources, etc. I commend them for it. But their training programs (there are others, too) are not mandated by anyone. Most yeshivos do not even inquire of their applicants for rebbes/teachers whether they completed any form of training.

It would ideal that every single yeshiva should mandate training prior to being considered for employment.

There is more access to training than ever before, and the tiny percentage of teachers and rebbeim who have such experience has been creeping upward. But on the large scale, it is still the exception.

175

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #160  
Bright One Says:

How do you know?

What do you mean how do you know?

How do I now that the child was rejected before school starts? Well I don't think the Kleins are lying about that.

I agree the school may have worked very hard with the child. But facts are she was kicked out of school and sent home. I don't think Mr. Klien is lying that his daughter was thrown out. Now what's the excuse to throw a girl out of school?

176

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #165  
Anonymous Says:

You are totally missing the point. My point is that teachers and educators are focused on the weaker students as is evident from any mechanchim conference. The drivel and bashing espoused in this thread would have you believe that they couldnt care less about weaker students. Furthermore Aish Dos is an intensive teacher training program run by TU in Lakewood and the conferences do a great job with continuing education just as is the case in any other profession.

Yes I do admit you are correct.

They are focused on weaker students . But how about weaker students who are nebs? Do they give them attention as well.

As schools have thos notion today that yes we need to work with weaker students. But if we don't see sucess we can't just let the kid klutz around in class. I say why not.

177

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #162  
Anonymous Says:

Your brilliance is not without its limitations.

The drug pusher is NOT the issue. While law enforcement needs to take necessary action to eliminate this scourge, Malky's death was not caused by the drug pusher. In all probability, there was no drug pusher, but a drug provider. The pushing came from the system that insured she lived in the street, being miserable 24/7, hating her life.

Drugs do not tempt people to leave yeshivos. Once someone leaves the welcoming of yeshivos, they seek solace somewhere, and drugs offers that (a dangerous illusion). If we keep our kids within the confines of our community, making them feel welcome there, they will not turn to drugs.

Lastly, not all OTD kids who were rejected from the "system" turn to drugs. many seek other escapades in life. But the common denominator is they are escaping from us. Why? Not because of the drug pusher.

Why are you protecting the person that sold this girl the heroin? Makes me wonder who you are protecting.

178

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:30 PM Lakewood'er Says:

....so not to long ago a man with money and power addressed this issue and spoke the truth but was viciously attacked and forced to retract/apologies. So good luck people...

179

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:30 PM heeb Says:

Reply to #173  
Anonymous Says:

I know the rabbi personally - I can not speak to the story but he is a man of high character and a superb rebbi - how do I know this? I was a Talmud of his 30 years ago and he was a life saver. he was a miracle worker and is responsible for where I am today.

consider yourself the exception and not the rule. I live in the 5 towns and see his product. in reality, I should send him flowers for not accepting my son.....

180

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:43 PM Anonymous Says:

What about the terrible scourge of BULLYING in yeshivas? This happens even in such esteemed places as Chaim Berlin!

181

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:21 PM pained and hurt Says:

Reply to #159  
Anonymous Says:

just when i was about to commend you for rising above all odds (second daughter comment), i lost respect for you. in fact, you sound like the elitists you bash in your first post. how dare you drop a name on this forum?

for the record, i have no idea who this rabbi yafee (personally) is, but shame on you for tooting your horn and bashing a man who by all accounts has a shem tov. think of his family, his friends, his collegues, his staff, his talmidim, his parent body, but most of all HIM before you bash him!!

with an attitude like your, I WOULD throw you out of my school!

clearly, to you, now a fully disclosed idiot, telling a parent that you are not accepting their child because of where their grandparents were born, is very much acceptable. unfortunately, you too, are a sick person who would benefit from years of therapy. if you private message me, I can recommend you...my cousin is a psychiatrist.....I will ask that he take your insurance as full remuneration.

182

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:23 PM heeb Says:

Reply to #147  
ercsd Says:

Maybe these kids would thrive in public schools . The teachers are trained better. The classes are divided up to help kids with similar problems.

my son thrived in public school following the slaughter he underwent in yeshiva....at 10 years old. my only regret? that I didn't put him there sooner.

183

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:23 PM Anonymous Says:

My condolences to the parents and family of this girl.
One thing that struck me listening to the father's interview was that the siblings "were super achievers". I have witnessed first hand the coldness of Yidden comparing "average" siblings to their "super achiever" brothers and sisters to their faces. There is nothing more cruel, than one of these yentas (could be male or female) could do to a child. To those yentas that enjoy doing this, NO ONE ASKED YOU for your evil opinions. So keep your poison to yourselves.

184

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #166  
pained and hurt Says:

my daughter went to undergrad, and grad school for 5 years to become a NYS certified teacher. Not sure how torah umesorah manages to cram 5 years into 6 months.....I would have become a doctor years ago, if that was possible!

Most education degrees are not 5 years rather more like 2 or 3 years. This is a one to two year program slightly less. But don't forget for a college degree you need a well rounded education. I need to learn a science, math, grammer skills etc.. If you cut that all out and stick to just the courses given in education its probably the same if not less than Torah umesora.

185

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #144  
chana Says:

i totally agree with you. do you know how many victims are from the frum satmar school

There is a so called "therapist" who is locked away for many years that was convicted from that community.

186

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:29 PM heeb Says:

Reply to #161  
Ina Says:

" Maybe these kids would thrive in public schools..."
Really? How could you! The only future for our people is in our Torah education. This is what I have said previously. The goal of a Yiddishe chinuch is to turn out a Yiddishe dor, generation who wish to know the Ribbono Shel Olam. Not to have the children slogging long hours with difficult subject matter. But to instill a love for Yiddishkeit and a pride in our people. In this, we are failing miserably. Please, never suggest public school again.

actually, my son went to public school, and not only thrived academically, he learns daf yomi, at 14, and by now has finished the sedarim of nashim, nezikin and most of taharos - mishnayos, and the second half of bava basra and is in the middle of Sanhedrin. (he started daf yomin when bava basra was at daf 88). please don't be dismissive of public school....not sure where more neshamos have been lost.....destrcutve rabbeim, or minority peers.....

187

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:33 PM heeb Says:

Reply to #159  
Anonymous Says:

just when i was about to commend you for rising above all odds (second daughter comment), i lost respect for you. in fact, you sound like the elitists you bash in your first post. how dare you drop a name on this forum?

for the record, i have no idea who this rabbi yafee (personally) is, but shame on you for tooting your horn and bashing a man who by all accounts has a shem tov. think of his family, his friends, his collegues, his staff, his talmidim, his parent body, but most of all HIM before you bash him!!

with an attitude like your, I WOULD throw you out of my school!

and please don't call him rabbi, he is at BEST a Mr.

188

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:33 PM Anonymous Says:

There needs to be MORE frum schools catering to the "average" student. Not everyone is a superstar or will ever be. Unless and until the frum Yidden realize this they will lose more and more of their children not to drug abuse, but to the welcoming and warm arms of the Reform movement and even to intermarriage.

189

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #33  
Anonymous Says:

Who are u to decide what is modest & what is not & who are u to judge who is a low life & who is not? What makes someone a low life? Is it when they have langeh payas & are ripping off the government, or abusing their children? Or is it when they don't have langeh payas or a shtrimel & are a ger tzedek or bal tshuvah? As for modest clothes, for my cousins in meah sharim none of the girls of beis yaacov of bp dress modestly maybe we need to throw out or ban all of them. What you consider dressing modestly isn't always dressing modestly who are you to make that decision??? I for one am glad that my mom took me out of that school especially if ppl like u & ur kids r there & put me on a MUCH better scholastically & bitachon wise school

Its the S'U that makes that guidline not me

190

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:49 PM hernoor Says:

Cont. ( I mistakenly posted before I was finished last post) There are women and girls wearing mini skirts because "where is it written that the legs are an ervah"? Well sorry, you can't expect a frum school to be ok with that. A student that flaunts the rules can expect to be thrown out. A student that is a bad hashpoah should be thrown out. Even if the education in the frum school is torture for man, many students, they could, at least with effort, pass teslts. It is very hard for me to believe that a principal would throw out a student if they make an effort to get a minimal passing mark.

I suspect that in this case of Malky, I believe there is more to the story, I don't believe principals would be heartless and throw a girl out if she put in aomuch effort to succeed. Sorry, but I believe there is more to this story.

In summary, I do believe the schools that although educators are very devoted to their students and work, they are still being cruel and unrealistic by expecting the entire student body to master through memorization irrelevant subjects and material. But still, it is up to the parents to demand of their children follow the school rules , whether they like them or not and to put in some effort to get the minimum mark necessary to pass tests.

I believe that most schools would not throw out a reasonably scholasticaly challenged student ( and those with very severe issues need specialized schools ).

191

 Jul 31, 2017 at 03:51 PM Ex Kollel Working Guy Says:

Reply to #178  
Lakewood'er Says:

....so not to long ago a man with money and power addressed this issue and spoke the truth but was viciously attacked and forced to retract/apologies. So good luck people...

Nope that man with power and money missed the boat. He blame it on yeshivsih or frum exclusivism. Its not true. Its Hungarian exclusivity. Since you are a Lakewooder I suggest you take a look at the "bal habatish" schools and see who is giving the tzarus. I won't list their names but and I know who they are. Its not the neby schools making the problems.

192

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #177  
Anonymous Says:

Why are you protecting the person that sold this girl the heroin? Makes me wonder who you are protecting.

Reread the comment. No one is protecting the drug dealer. But that issue is incidental to the Malky issue. Catch the dealer, and give him the death penalty for all I care. Malky was not a drug addict when she was publicly shamed and thrown to the streets. If your tendency is to practice law enforcement, and you wish to pursue, arrest, and prosecute drug dealers, I will cheer you on and support the venture. Malky was a victim of the system long before she ever encountered drugs. That is the real discussion. Stop diverting the focus.

193

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:26 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #190  
hernoor Says:

Cont. ( I mistakenly posted before I was finished last post) There are women and girls wearing mini skirts because "where is it written that the legs are an ervah"? Well sorry, you can't expect a frum school to be ok with that. A student that flaunts the rules can expect to be thrown out. A student that is a bad hashpoah should be thrown out. Even if the education in the frum school is torture for man, many students, they could, at least with effort, pass teslts. It is very hard for me to believe that a principal would throw out a student if they make an effort to get a minimal passing mark.

I suspect that in this case of Malky, I believe there is more to the story, I don't believe principals would be heartless and throw a girl out if she put in aomuch effort to succeed. Sorry, but I believe there is more to this story.

In summary, I do believe the schools that although educators are very devoted to their students and work, they are still being cruel and unrealistic by expecting the entire student body to master through memorization irrelevant subjects and material. But still, it is up to the parents to demand of their children follow the school rules , whether they like them or not and to put in some effort to get the minimum mark necessary to pass tests.

I believe that most schools would not throw out a reasonably scholasticaly challenged student ( and those with very severe issues need specialized schools ).

hernoor: You wrote, "I believe that most schools would not throw out a reasonably scholastically challenged student ".

This happens to be a fantasy. In reality, it is common practice. Getting past admission is an even bigger challenge, for the less than metzuyan student.

Your comment implies that the parents fail to demand their children follow school rules. That is a tragic untruth, and one that plagues the community.

Having mentioned that there are rules, one may legitimately question whether the "rules" actually make sense, have any relevance to education, and accomplish the mission of the school. If the yeshiva has a mission to raise community standards of chitzoniyus, then one way to accomplish that is to legislate a dress code for parents. Does that rest easy on your conscience?

194

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:28 PM ubgeriser Says:

I just feel sorry for the Klein family. I just wish the Rabonim from all parts of our community would get involved into this major catastrophic issue and not with all the other nonsense they are involved.

195

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:01 PM Abe999 Says:

we call on Mr. Rechnitz from L.A. he should please come to brooklyn and lecture our scholls the same he did in Lakewood

196

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:03 PM Yossi Says:

wow...this subject really touched some nerves because of its sensitivity.
Bottom line here is KLAL yisroel is in pain either for their own suffering or seeing others suffer..Tishe bav is approaching in 3 hours and its the right time to shed a tear for the chorbon bais hamikdesh and for the chorben we live in today.
Dozens and maybe hundrds of parents wet their pillows every night for their children suffering so may we cry this tisha bav and feel their pain.
May we be zoyche to see the nechumes zion and the geilah shelymey

197

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:03 PM Heeb Says:

Reply to #184  
Anonymous Says:

Most education degrees are not 5 years rather more like 2 or 3 years. This is a one to two year program slightly less. But don't forget for a college degree you need a well rounded education. I need to learn a science, math, grammer skills etc.. If you cut that all out and stick to just the courses given in education its probably the same if not less than Torah umesora.

You are actually Incorrect! An undergraduate degree is four years and a graduate degree is an additional one two or three years, depending upon what you study. As a matter of fact, to become a New York state certified teacher, which is what any public school or real private school would require of a teacher, is at least five years of schooling, which includes child psychology among other things. Please retract your comment, you are disseminating extremely incorrect information.

198

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:08 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #181  
pained and hurt Says:

clearly, to you, now a fully disclosed idiot, telling a parent that you are not accepting their child because of where their grandparents were born, is very much acceptable. unfortunately, you too, are a sick person who would benefit from years of therapy. if you private message me, I can recommend you...my cousin is a psychiatrist.....I will ask that he take your insurance as full remuneration.

i hope your cousin doesn't charge you for the services that you are hopefully seeking from him. CLEARLY, i was not implying that i would not accept your child. it is you, who i have an issue with. your words (idiot) are painful and hurtful, not your lame comment name.

seek help, buddy

199

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #181  
pained and hurt Says:

clearly, to you, now a fully disclosed idiot, telling a parent that you are not accepting their child because of where their grandparents were born, is very much acceptable. unfortunately, you too, are a sick person who would benefit from years of therapy. if you private message me, I can recommend you...my cousin is a psychiatrist.....I will ask that he take your insurance as full remuneration.

i am very happy that your child thrives in public school. i would think that it is unusual, but you deserve credit for ensuring that he is a ben torah. you should always have yidishe nachas from him.

as mentioned in my post, i do not know him, but take offense to bash a man who may have flaws and may not be held in the highest regard, but also should not be bashed on this forum. ditto other comments laden with names of mechanchim. they all have families that do not deserve to witness seeing them cyberbullied. esp erev tisha b'av!!

200

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:17 PM maxedout Says:

Reply to #191  
Ex Kollel Working Guy Says:

Nope that man with power and money missed the boat. He blame it on yeshivsih or frum exclusivism. Its not true. Its Hungarian exclusivity. Since you are a Lakewooder I suggest you take a look at the "bal habatish" schools and see who is giving the tzarus. I won't list their names but and I know who they are. Its not the neby schools making the problems.

What the heck is your obsession with Hungarians? Seriously, give it a rest.

201

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:28 PM Heeb Says:

Reply to #190  
hernoor Says:

Cont. ( I mistakenly posted before I was finished last post) There are women and girls wearing mini skirts because "where is it written that the legs are an ervah"? Well sorry, you can't expect a frum school to be ok with that. A student that flaunts the rules can expect to be thrown out. A student that is a bad hashpoah should be thrown out. Even if the education in the frum school is torture for man, many students, they could, at least with effort, pass teslts. It is very hard for me to believe that a principal would throw out a student if they make an effort to get a minimal passing mark.

I suspect that in this case of Malky, I believe there is more to the story, I don't believe principals would be heartless and throw a girl out if she put in aomuch effort to succeed. Sorry, but I believe there is more to this story.

In summary, I do believe the schools that although educators are very devoted to their students and work, they are still being cruel and unrealistic by expecting the entire student body to master through memorization irrelevant subjects and material. But still, it is up to the parents to demand of their children follow the school rules , whether they like them or not and to put in some effort to get the minimum mark necessary to pass tests.

I believe that most schools would not throw out a reasonably scholasticaly challenged student ( and those with very severe issues need specialized schools ).

Please don't tell me where you live!! I will come to you with my doberman my German shepherd and a baseball bat to straighten your stupid self out!

202

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:33 PM Crazykanoiy Says:

Reply to #154  
Anonymous Says:

You happen to be wrong, and denial of facts. No, I don't advocate locking up all teachers. But you are unaware of the dynamics of childhood development, and definitely ignorant about the grave damage that can be done to the emotional development of a young child. Yes, the public shaming in second grade is abusive, with consequences happening up to many years later. The system did not just "not work" for Malky, but the system punished her and rejected her. That is never acceptable, and is antithetical to an institution that purports to teach Torah. Malky was not as unfortunate a case as the horrible dysfunction of the system that is obligated to help her grow.

As for heart and soul being invested in chinuch, that is certainly true for some, even many. But there is a glaring percentage that bring their egos to work, and are not focused on the success of every single student. Those teachers and rebbeim need jobs in other fields where they cannot damage anyone.

The vast majority of kids succeed in our chinuch system. This is a testament to the great work of our educators.

Again you have no idea if the system failed her or not. Only one side is being presented here.

203

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #158  
heeb Says:

let me answer your question, an extremely insensitive, ignorant, and stupid one. I had a similar story with my son - a genius with ADHD, who was told by his 'rebbi' in grade 5 that 'in everybody's class you are from the bachurei chemed, but in mine, you are from the bachurei chamor', among many other terribly destructive comments. He was also kicked out by the 'menahel' for misbehavior. Wait! let me rephrase that, he told my 11 year old son, 'call your mother, and tell her to pick you up and not bring you back until they have a plan for you'. the school psychologist offered up THIS wonderful piece of advice.....'up the medication!!! up the medication!!!' lets just say, that both the rebbi and the so-called menahel have been fired, and the stupid psychologist would have ended up with the same fate, had she been employed by the school, instead of the district. and yes, I DID try another school....its called the Local public school, where he thrived, and succeeded. so please, before you come up with any further ingenious questions, please rethink it, and assume that the parents and doctors combined, have at least the same brain-bandwidth as you, if not a little more.

So now it is the fault of the teacher menahel and psychologists. You write that the school fired the, so then apparently there is accountability at this school so why are you all mad at this system?

204

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #158  
heeb Says:

let me answer your question, an extremely insensitive, ignorant, and stupid one. I had a similar story with my son - a genius with ADHD, who was told by his 'rebbi' in grade 5 that 'in everybody's class you are from the bachurei chemed, but in mine, you are from the bachurei chamor', among many other terribly destructive comments. He was also kicked out by the 'menahel' for misbehavior. Wait! let me rephrase that, he told my 11 year old son, 'call your mother, and tell her to pick you up and not bring you back until they have a plan for you'. the school psychologist offered up THIS wonderful piece of advice.....'up the medication!!! up the medication!!!' lets just say, that both the rebbi and the so-called menahel have been fired, and the stupid psychologist would have ended up with the same fate, had she been employed by the school, instead of the district. and yes, I DID try another school....its called the Local public school, where he thrived, and succeeded. so please, before you come up with any further ingenious questions, please rethink it, and assume that the parents and doctors combined, have at least the same brain-bandwidth as you, if not a little more.

A bad experience in one school does not give one licensce to tar the entire "system" Hence the question was your bad experience limited to one school? Di you try another yeshiva type school?

205

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #190  
hernoor Says:

Cont. ( I mistakenly posted before I was finished last post) There are women and girls wearing mini skirts because "where is it written that the legs are an ervah"? Well sorry, you can't expect a frum school to be ok with that. A student that flaunts the rules can expect to be thrown out. A student that is a bad hashpoah should be thrown out. Even if the education in the frum school is torture for man, many students, they could, at least with effort, pass teslts. It is very hard for me to believe that a principal would throw out a student if they make an effort to get a minimal passing mark.

I suspect that in this case of Malky, I believe there is more to the story, I don't believe principals would be heartless and throw a girl out if she put in aomuch effort to succeed. Sorry, but I believe there is more to this story.

In summary, I do believe the schools that although educators are very devoted to their students and work, they are still being cruel and unrealistic by expecting the entire student body to master through memorization irrelevant subjects and material. But still, it is up to the parents to demand of their children follow the school rules , whether they like them or not and to put in some effort to get the minimum mark necessary to pass tests.

I believe that most schools would not throw out a reasonably scholasticaly challenged student ( and those with very severe issues need specialized schools ).

How dare you???!!!! SHLECHTA MENTCH

What the hell went into your dafuuked head. Erase your hurtful insensitive comment !!

206

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:48 PM VoiceOfSanity Says:

Reply to #181  
pained and hurt Says:

clearly, to you, now a fully disclosed idiot, telling a parent that you are not accepting their child because of where their grandparents were born, is very much acceptable. unfortunately, you too, are a sick person who would benefit from years of therapy. if you private message me, I can recommend you...my cousin is a psychiatrist.....I will ask that he take your insurance as full remuneration.

Not vouching for the Yeshiva or the principal at all, but I know of several boys from Sephardic families that are talmidim in the said Yeshiva so I'm not sure what other circumstances we're involved.....Although anytime you single out a public figure, someone is going to take offense - not very prudent. Most of other 190 commentators managed to express their opinions without bringing up specific names. Most.

207

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:49 PM Sadly unruled Says:

Reply to #193  
Anonymous Says:

hernoor: You wrote, "I believe that most schools would not throw out a reasonably scholastically challenged student ".

This happens to be a fantasy. In reality, it is common practice. Getting past admission is an even bigger challenge, for the less than metzuyan student.

Your comment implies that the parents fail to demand their children follow school rules. That is a tragic untruth, and one that plagues the community.

Having mentioned that there are rules, one may legitimately question whether the "rules" actually make sense, have any relevance to education, and accomplish the mission of the school. If the yeshiva has a mission to raise community standards of chitzoniyus, then one way to accomplish that is to legislate a dress code for parents. Does that rest easy on your conscience?

Rules? Rules can only b implemented with love. For every NEA there shld b at least a few YEAS. I know of a gr8 kid that was thrown out of a camp cuz she didnt follow the rule she didnt know existed. Were talking technical stuff nothing involving ruchnious. The VAAD was adamant and wldnt budge until the kid (18) was removed for something that if written you wldnt believe it anyhow. But unfort theses masters succeeded and sent the girl packing and then? Who gets to deal w the ramifications of this? They all belong in one big cel languishing until they realize that a yidisha neshoma (besides their own) also has a heart and can bleed. Despicable!

208

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #189  
Anonymous Says:

Its the S'U that makes that guidline not me

Well that's an ignorant comment if I have ever heard one. Can you quote me the Siman and S'if in Shulchan Aruch that discusses the length of skirts or elbows? As a matter of fact can you tell me the name of ANY sefer, not a contemporary English book with questionable and out of context mekoros that gives us specific Tznius guidelines?

209

 Jul 31, 2017 at 04:58 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #159  
Anonymous Says:

just when i was about to commend you for rising above all odds (second daughter comment), i lost respect for you. in fact, you sound like the elitists you bash in your first post. how dare you drop a name on this forum?

for the record, i have no idea who this rabbi yafee (personally) is, but shame on you for tooting your horn and bashing a man who by all accounts has a shem tov. think of his family, his friends, his collegues, his staff, his talmidim, his parent body, but most of all HIM before you bash him!!

with an attitude like your, I WOULD throw you out of my school!

I do not agree with you. It is time to mention schools and the names of the wicked people who run them. It is time to scream them from the rooftops! You know why? Because this works! I encourage everyone to come on here and put the public on notice with the names of these people who are destroying our generation. Otherwise, one day, you might be asked, "where were you, when these terrible things were done to our children and their parents"?

210

 Jul 31, 2017 at 05:03 PM Ex Kollel Working Guy Says:

Reply to #200  
maxedout Says:

What the heck is your obsession with Hungarians? Seriously, give it a rest.

Because its a very crucial point in the discussion of chninuch that gets ignored. Schools today are blinded by exclusiveness. And contrary to popular belief its not even that people are trying or really are frummer. (Its not the ehrlich yeshivish). Rather the exclusivity is being committed by people trying to be part of a certain status which your child may not be part of. Its a geshmas exclusivity. And I will refrain from that label and will give up the label as you requested since its really not the country of orgin that matters its the parents with their nose in the air that matters. Its the parents that only wanted "torahdik balhabatish" they are messing up our children. And I won't give up pointing out that snobishness altitude.

211

 Jul 31, 2017 at 05:10 PM a yid Says:

As a parent of children who went through this system,. I can relate to the pain on the Klien family. One child was suspended at 14 and never went back. Another dropped out at 16. A third is in a "level two" yeshiva which is struggling to stay open. However, I'm also rebbi in a yeshiva so I get to too see the other side of the desk. I can agree the "system" needs fixing or I should - upgrading, however there are many components to this system. You have curriculum, you have teachers, hanhala, board of directors, you have children. As a rebbi in younger grades and parent I will focus on the children aspect. Its grossly unfair to suggest that the yeshiva system failed her, as if no one tried to help and there were no other outside issues. I am now looking at my class roster from last year. I had 25 students, t was a good class. BUT one child should've been left back, the parents fought tooth and nail. Another fine boy still can't read I felt he needs a special ed yeshiva. The parents are putting him into another regular yeshiva. Then their are children with social issues. Do you know how much a child psychologist cost. 150 a session So please don't blame "the system".

212

 Jul 31, 2017 at 05:16 PM Esther Says:

Reply to #87  
Ina Says:

Wait until this is in your family, your back yard. It is coming soon. Because we all have these children. Let's see what you will say then. Most teachers have a job, and do not put heart and soul into their students. They don't even know who their students are. It is high time to assign blame in public and to call out the schools and their menahelim by name!

Ina'le, from my own 30 plus years of experience teaching,I can tell you that so often
the parents refuse to accept what they are hearing from teachers. Whether it's because of denial,fear for their childrens' futures or fear of the on known I can't tell yo how many times I've practically begged parents to help their children but to no avail. And sometimes parents are very nasty about it ,preferring to blame the teachers instead. PS, I also have some of "those" children.

213

 Jul 31, 2017 at 05:31 PM Heeb Says:

Reply to #206  
VoiceOfSanity Says:

Not vouching for the Yeshiva or the principal at all, but I know of several boys from Sephardic families that are talmidim in the said Yeshiva so I'm not sure what other circumstances we're involved.....Although anytime you single out a public figure, someone is going to take offense - not very prudent. Most of other 190 commentators managed to express their opinions without bringing up specific names. Most.

I take your point that's very well-meaning, so I will answer it as forthrightly as possible. What he told me was exactly what you read! Not one word was augmented or diminished. It is following my letting people know of his reason to reject my son that he started to accept them. It is the token... Yes my best friends are... Please tell me that you understand my point.

214

 Jul 31, 2017 at 05:32 PM Hungarian Says:

Whats this Hungarian dance of finger pointing? My daughter was harrassed by a Galiciana principal working as partners in crime with another. The side of learning disabled is a very sad topic but on the flip side of the coin, the kids that r not perfectly cookie cut and have good brains but extrmly understimulated which brings up our big prob of very low key Uneducated teachers. These kids have a lack of derech eretz and while I dont condone it, u cannot ostracize it. A teenager that lacks derech eretz needs to be softly reminded. The principal cannot start a witchhunt cuz shes threatned by a few girls. The principal is 45 +while the girl is 16+. And then come the next parsha. The kid buckled up left school and took matters seriously and still knows that the principals officially discourages people to employ her or talks ill on her by shidichim. This has to stop too! These evil middos are so engrained in our society and hurts our kids terribly and simultaneously teaches our kids a terrible example.

215

 Jul 31, 2017 at 05:32 PM hernoor Says:

Reply to #208  
Anonymous Says:

Well that's an ignorant comment if I have ever heard one. Can you quote me the Siman and S'if in Shulchan Aruch that discusses the length of skirts or elbows? As a matter of fact can you tell me the name of ANY sefer, not a contemporary English book with questionable and out of context mekoros that gives us specific Tznius guidelines?

YOU are the exact parent I wrote about. If I have to bring you sources why frum women can't wear a mini skirt, then I don't want your kids in my kids' mosdos. Thankfully, the hanhala agrees with me ( otherwise I wouldn't bother sending my kids' to the mosdos they attend).

216

 Jul 31, 2017 at 05:34 PM Heeb Says:

Reply to #198  
Anonymous Says:

i hope your cousin doesn't charge you for the services that you are hopefully seeking from him. CLEARLY, i was not implying that i would not accept your child. it is you, who i have an issue with. your words (idiot) are painful and hurtful, not your lame comment name.

seek help, buddy

I will take your lame comeback as exactly that. A lame comeback which does not Merit an answer. Enjoy Tisha Bav!!

217

 Jul 31, 2017 at 05:36 PM Heeb Says:

Reply to #199  
Anonymous Says:

i am very happy that your child thrives in public school. i would think that it is unusual, but you deserve credit for ensuring that he is a ben torah. you should always have yidishe nachas from him.

as mentioned in my post, i do not know him, but take offense to bash a man who may have flaws and may not be held in the highest regard, but also should not be bashed on this forum. ditto other comments laden with names of mechanchim. they all have families that do not deserve to witness seeing them cyberbullied. esp erev tisha b'av!!

Thank you for the kind words about my son, and I wish you only the best for your children as well. As to mentioning names, there are times that names need to be mentioned in order to protect those that have not been victimized by him. Believe me I live in this community I know what I'm talking about. I really hope that one day I can meet you in person and exchange ideas and perhaps break bread in an amicable situation. Easy fast!

218

 Jul 31, 2017 at 05:46 PM chayamom Says:

Reply to #10  
Wiliboy Says:

Turns out the Satmar Rebbe Reb Yoel Zt'l was correct with his Chinuch Habunes. all they need is to be a good wife, all the problems we have now in the non satmar girls school stems from the school who want to compete with their brand name while teaching girls completely NONSENSE.

Unfortunately what worked years ago doesn't work today. Even in Satmar there is competition. It is just on other shtusim. There are plenty that are considered nebs because of what they do/don't have and who their lineage is etc. It's just a different ruler with the same need to be the "best/top" of the heap.

219

 Jul 31, 2017 at 05:50 PM Chossid Says:

If the schools would teach a little more Chassidis about how hashem loves everyone and is a forgiving God and the main thing is to serve hashem with happiness and to do teshuva m'ahava and a little less mussar About how bad we all are and that we're all going to hell and we have to do teshuva (m'yirah) maybe less people would end up going OTD and I wouldn't have all these people telling me all the time which yeshivas they went to and how depressed everyone was over there teachers and students and why they refuse to put on teffilin ever again in their life.
P.s. if the students would learn to be happy (and not throw shtenders at each other) and think of god as a kind father not as a monster that you Should be scared of maybe when they get older and become teachers themselves (some of them at least) they will teach their own students also how to be happy and not go to drugs etc. Signed A happy lubavitcher student that isn't anywhere near the top of his class.

220

 Jul 31, 2017 at 06:07 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #77  
Crazykanoiy Says:

I understand that the parents are grieving but it is NOT an excuse to go about blaming teachers, rabbeim, morahs and principles. Most educators put in their heart and soul for the success of their students. Anyone who attends any chinuch conference can attest that the majority of sessions are spent discussing how to reach out to the weakest of students.

It is unfair for parents to assign blame in public when hardly anyone is privy to the full circumstances of Malky's unfortunate case. Sentiments such as "lock up all teachers..." are horribly wrong and revolting even when expressed in pain. It is equally absurd to attribute this tragedy to the comments of a second grade teacher.

It is clear from this article that Malky suffered from learning disabilities and schools by their very definition are focused on learning. The fact that the "system" did not work for Malky - and again we are not privy to what help the schools did offer and what else was going on in her life - does not rationalize the wholesale criticism portrayed in this article.

the agreement, angst, and condemnation you are reading here is because it resonates with many people who aren't ready to come out in the open the way the Klein's have.
Mr. & Mrs. Klein you have my utmost admiration for bringing this discussion out in the open and may you be matzliach in your quest to make sure this never happens to another yiddeshe neshama ever again!

221

 Jul 31, 2017 at 06:09 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #219  
Chossid Says:

If the schools would teach a little more Chassidis about how hashem loves everyone and is a forgiving God and the main thing is to serve hashem with happiness and to do teshuva m'ahava and a little less mussar About how bad we all are and that we're all going to hell and we have to do teshuva (m'yirah) maybe less people would end up going OTD and I wouldn't have all these people telling me all the time which yeshivas they went to and how depressed everyone was over there teachers and students and why they refuse to put on teffilin ever again in their life.
P.s. if the students would learn to be happy (and not throw shtenders at each other) and think of god as a kind father not as a monster that you Should be scared of maybe when they get older and become teachers themselves (some of them at least) they will teach their own students also how to be happy and not go to drugs etc. Signed A happy lubavitcher student that isn't anywhere near the top of his class.

Great comment. We need to focus on how much Hashem loves us. Teach genuine Judiasm to the kids. Its not hyperbole! Hashem loves us! Do we ever hear that in school? I never did! All the teachers are busy is with what we CANT do! I only discovered Yiddishkeit when i left school. Take out a Chovos Halvavos and study real Yiddishkeit! How much goodness in this world. And how GREAT Hashem is..

222

 Jul 31, 2017 at 06:12 PM Bubi Says:

Unbearable pain, we are all afraid to come out against the school system because we will be threatened, sooner or later someone will have the guts to do something, it's just a matter of time.

223

 Jul 31, 2017 at 06:30 PM hernoor Says:

Reply to #208  
Anonymous Says:

Well that's an ignorant comment if I have ever heard one. Can you quote me the Siman and S'if in Shulchan Aruch that discusses the length of skirts or elbows? As a matter of fact can you tell me the name of ANY sefer, not a contemporary English book with questionable and out of context mekoros that gives us specific Tznius guidelines?

And I forgot to mention as well that it's ludicrous that you want to rely on previous Rabbis but not contemporary. In every generation Rabbonim dealt with halachik issues pertaining to their generation. Nowhere in history do we see women dressed, or rather undressed, like todays' women who call themselves "frum" and look like hookers. It was unheard of and unthinkable and therefore unmentioned.

224

 Jul 31, 2017 at 06:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #102  
maxedout Says:

STOP with the GEDOLIM already. We have no Gedolim! We have rabbis on a power trip and ego trip and are clueless on how to handle these issues. They are NOT leaders. Stop being so blind!

Gedolim? Bla. I'm a chassid based on the virtue that I once had a Rebbe and that's what guides me today. But there is NO such thing as today Rebbe's. We shouldn't care about anybody but what the Torah says. Who ever traches Ahavas Hashemto the kids? Emunah? How good you are? How good Hashem is? That's our Yiddishkeit. You don't have to fake it. It's true! May we see the coming of Moshiach speedily in our days!

225

 Jul 31, 2017 at 06:48 PM hernoor Says:

Reply to #193  
Anonymous Says:

hernoor: You wrote, "I believe that most schools would not throw out a reasonably scholastically challenged student ".

This happens to be a fantasy. In reality, it is common practice. Getting past admission is an even bigger challenge, for the less than metzuyan student.

Your comment implies that the parents fail to demand their children follow school rules. That is a tragic untruth, and one that plagues the community.

Having mentioned that there are rules, one may legitimately question whether the "rules" actually make sense, have any relevance to education, and accomplish the mission of the school. If the yeshiva has a mission to raise community standards of chitzoniyus, then one way to accomplish that is to legislate a dress code for parents. Does that rest easy on your conscience?

I stand by my comment, that if there's a good kid who has scholastic issues, MOST schools will not throw out that child. That is a fact. The reason most kids get thrown out is because either the parents, or the child, or both refuse to follow rules.

Refer to comment #208 if you think there are no unreasonable parents. Do you have to explain to a frum parent why frum women can't go with mini skirts?!

I don't agree with all the rules the schools have, but I certainly don't flaunt rules in public and I really try hard to follow the rules to the best of my ability. This is what I teach my kids as well. No is forcing parents to enroll their kids in particular mosdos and if they do have their kids there, need to be respectful of the rules, whether they agree with them or not.

This does not take away from the fact that those who run the schools also cannot abuse their position and must be reasonable with their curriculums and what they demand of their students.

226

 Jul 31, 2017 at 07:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #67  
Tamidbesimcha Says:

Someone that doesn't cover the knees and wears tight clothing are not considered modest for that school! you could go to a different school if you would like but don't complain if you don't get accepted! I am also glad that your Mom took you out!

Why thank you for agreeing with me that the school is atrocious & yeah my mom was wise beyond her years with that since she put me into a different beis yaacov who accepted & respected all children unlike other schools. Also to be honest tznius in mine & there are others like me, means more than that you should make sure to wear a black shawl to cover ur top part so as not to bring unwanted looks on you & dark stockings with seams & in all honesty u should wear a head covering in black & not a sheitl, but u probably already do all that & I guess that's why u can dictate who is tznius & who isn't.

227

 Jul 31, 2017 at 07:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #197  
Heeb Says:

You are actually Incorrect! An undergraduate degree is four years and a graduate degree is an additional one two or three years, depending upon what you study. As a matter of fact, to become a New York state certified teacher, which is what any public school or real private school would require of a teacher, is at least five years of schooling, which includes child psychology among other things. Please retract your comment, you are disseminating extremely incorrect information.

You can get a Masters of Education from Loyola University in Chicago by spending two summers in school. 4 Months total. "Please retract your comment, as you are disseminating extremely incorrect information"

228

 Jul 31, 2017 at 07:09 PM CK Says:

Reply to #210  
Ex Kollel Working Guy Says:

Because its a very crucial point in the discussion of chninuch that gets ignored. Schools today are blinded by exclusiveness. And contrary to popular belief its not even that people are trying or really are frummer. (Its not the ehrlich yeshivish). Rather the exclusivity is being committed by people trying to be part of a certain status which your child may not be part of. Its a geshmas exclusivity. And I will refrain from that label and will give up the label as you requested since its really not the country of orgin that matters its the parents with their nose in the air that matters. Its the parents that only wanted "torahdik balhabatish" they are messing up our children. And I won't give up pointing out that snobishness altitude.

Your right.

229

 Jul 31, 2017 at 07:13 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #225  
hernoor Says:

I stand by my comment, that if there's a good kid who has scholastic issues, MOST schools will not throw out that child. That is a fact. The reason most kids get thrown out is because either the parents, or the child, or both refuse to follow rules.

Refer to comment #208 if you think there are no unreasonable parents. Do you have to explain to a frum parent why frum women can't go with mini skirts?!

I don't agree with all the rules the schools have, but I certainly don't flaunt rules in public and I really try hard to follow the rules to the best of my ability. This is what I teach my kids as well. No is forcing parents to enroll their kids in particular mosdos and if they do have their kids there, need to be respectful of the rules, whether they agree with them or not.

This does not take away from the fact that those who run the schools also cannot abuse their position and must be reasonable with their curriculums and what they demand of their students.

"MOST schools will not throw out that child."
Don't be so sure. We have sunk to a new low. Schools are not only throwing out our children, but they are even throwing them out in the middle of the year without a thought as to where they will end up. And, it is not always for a good enough reason. None of this happened years ago, and you know what? There were no OTD children.

230

 Jul 31, 2017 at 07:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #217  
Heeb Says:

Thank you for the kind words about my son, and I wish you only the best for your children as well. As to mentioning names, there are times that names need to be mentioned in order to protect those that have not been victimized by him. Believe me I live in this community I know what I'm talking about. I really hope that one day I can meet you in person and exchange ideas and perhaps break bread in an amicable situation. Easy fast!

heeb,

in the spirit of this solemn day, i hope that my comment is posted and you see this before aicha.

in error, i posted my reply to you, when it was meant for the person who called me an idiot! (comment 216 on the thread was your reply to mine!) i am so sorry!!

breaking bread is a good idea, but forgiving me for my error is a better one!
have an easy and meaningful fast, and keep up the good work raising your son to be a light amongst his peers. it is the finest kiddush hashem i can think of!

231

 Jul 31, 2017 at 07:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #211  
a yid Says:

As a parent of children who went through this system,. I can relate to the pain on the Klien family. One child was suspended at 14 and never went back. Another dropped out at 16. A third is in a "level two" yeshiva which is struggling to stay open. However, I'm also rebbi in a yeshiva so I get to too see the other side of the desk. I can agree the "system" needs fixing or I should - upgrading, however there are many components to this system. You have curriculum, you have teachers, hanhala, board of directors, you have children. As a rebbi in younger grades and parent I will focus on the children aspect. Its grossly unfair to suggest that the yeshiva system failed her, as if no one tried to help and there were no other outside issues. I am now looking at my class roster from last year. I had 25 students, t was a good class. BUT one child should've been left back, the parents fought tooth and nail. Another fine boy still can't read I felt he needs a special ed yeshiva. The parents are putting him into another regular yeshiva. Then their are children with social issues. Do you know how much a child psychologist cost. 150 a session So please don't blame "the system".

Knowing only what was made public, this system failed Malky, and badly. I do not give them a pass on it. The school was not only not part of the solution, but a major portion of the problem. Learning issues make someone a challenging student with different needs, not a drug addict who feels life is not worth living.

You make a valid point that gets too little press, when parents fight against the professional opinion about a student because they feel stigmatized. Correct, the stigma is unfair. But to overrule the teachers (who we assume know what they are talking about) for their own kavod is unfair and counterproductive.

But, the system deserves its portion of the blame.

232

 Jul 31, 2017 at 07:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #220  
Anonymous Says:

the agreement, angst, and condemnation you are reading here is because it resonates with many people who aren't ready to come out in the open the way the Klein's have.
Mr. & Mrs. Klein you have my utmost admiration for bringing this discussion out in the open and may you be matzliach in your quest to make sure this never happens to another yiddeshe neshama ever again!

Most of the complaints in this thread have very little to do with the issue raised by the Kleins. It has become an angry forum to vent any frustrations that one may have with their kids and their life. It is much like rural American Trump voters blaming all their issues on a "corrupt system".

233

 Jul 31, 2017 at 07:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #212  
Esther Says:

Ina'le, from my own 30 plus years of experience teaching,I can tell you that so often
the parents refuse to accept what they are hearing from teachers. Whether it's because of denial,fear for their childrens' futures or fear of the on known I can't tell yo how many times I've practically begged parents to help their children but to no avail. And sometimes parents are very nasty about it ,preferring to blame the teachers instead. PS, I also have some of "those" children.

Esther:

Parents often refuse the teachers' recommendations because of their own pride. But sometimes there is another factor at play. Not every teacher who makes such statements is qualified to do so. I have heard teachers recommending that parents put their kids on stimulant medication (refusing to allow the child back in class otherwise). The diagnosis is not the domain of the teacher, who should only raise the question and press for evaluation. If I find a teacher not trustworthy or competent, I am unlikely to accept their pronouncement that my child has certain problems.

234

 Jul 31, 2017 at 07:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Wiliboy Says:

Turns out the Satmar Rebbe Reb Yoel Zt'l was correct with his Chinuch Habunes. all they need is to be a good wife, all the problems we have now in the non satmar girls school stems from the school who want to compete with their brand name while teaching girls completely NONSENSE.

What makes you think that satmar doesn't have these problems?? I know a kid first hand that was recently thrown out of school for the SAME REASON as Malky! They claimed that she's very poor academically!! Luckily they found another school that would accept her. This problem exists EVERYWERE and action must be done immediately! No one should wait to learn a lesson when it chas vsholom happens to their children!

235

 Jul 31, 2017 at 07:27 PM hernoor Says:

Reply to #229  
Ina Says:

"MOST schools will not throw out that child."
Don't be so sure. We have sunk to a new low. Schools are not only throwing out our children, but they are even throwing them out in the middle of the year without a thought as to where they will end up. And, it is not always for a good enough reason. None of this happened years ago, and you know what? There were no OTD children.

There sure we're kids who went otd years ago. Kids assimilated into the American society, kids who became communists, socialists, etc.

But yes, the schools and frum society in general, and if I dare say it loudly, our leaders as well, are pushing everyone into a square box and that is very hard for at least 50% of the frum population, including our youth, and almost impossible for some.

236

 Jul 31, 2017 at 07:51 PM Redmond Says:

Reply to #143  
pained and hurt Says:

to continue, and to give an example of the filth that runs our schools....when I took my son to Mesivtah Ateres Yaakov in Cedarhurst for high school, the schmutz and scourge called yafee tells me that he is not accepting Sephardim. YES!!!!!!! WHAT YOU READ!!!!!! I AM NOT ACCEPTING SEPHARDIM!!!!!!!! I guess by Har Sinai, only tier I Ashkenazim, and no Sephardim were present. I am not jealous of these pieces of filth!!! they will have to give din vecheshbon, after 120, if they make it that far.....

I attended MAY, graduated in 2014 and I visit there often to learn and talk with the current students of the Yeshiva. No one asked me to do that, so why would I? Because Rabbi Yaffe and MAY are amazing, and they both have given me a strong foundation to build my life on. I feel compelled to be involved as much as possible in supporting a beacon of light in the Yeshiva system. A Yeshiva where each guy was looked at for who he was and given a unique route in chinuch that is best for his growth.

In my graduating class and in the Yeshiva now there are many sephardim, and they are not treated any differently. If there is any Menahel who would not be elitist and biased to any type of Jew it is Rabbi Yaffe and the amazing mechanchim at Mesivta Ateres Yaakov.

237

 Jul 31, 2017 at 08:11 PM JoeField1 Says:

I read about 230 comments, what is really shocking is that the vast majority posters; don’t have the capability to express a coherent though. Undeniably, your schools failed you miserably.

238

 Jul 31, 2017 at 08:16 PM Heeb Says:

Reply to #230  
Anonymous Says:

heeb,

in the spirit of this solemn day, i hope that my comment is posted and you see this before aicha.

in error, i posted my reply to you, when it was meant for the person who called me an idiot! (comment 216 on the thread was your reply to mine!) i am so sorry!!

breaking bread is a good idea, but forgiving me for my error is a better one!
have an easy and meaningful fast, and keep up the good work raising your son to be a light amongst his peers. it is the finest kiddush hashem i can think of!

All good!!! And thank you for the kind words!

239

 Jul 31, 2017 at 08:18 PM Heeb Says:

Reply to #227  
Anonymous Says:

You can get a Masters of Education from Loyola University in Chicago by spending two summers in school. 4 Months total. "Please retract your comment, as you are disseminating extremely incorrect information"

Assuming you are right, which I am not sure of, I will try to verify on my own, you still need an undergraduate degree, which takes an average of 4 years.

240

 Jul 31, 2017 at 08:38 PM Esther Says:

Reply to #233  
Anonymous Says:

Esther:

Parents often refuse the teachers' recommendations because of their own pride. But sometimes there is another factor at play. Not every teacher who makes such statements is qualified to do so. I have heard teachers recommending that parents put their kids on stimulant medication (refusing to allow the child back in class otherwise). The diagnosis is not the domain of the teacher, who should only raise the question and press for evaluation. If I find a teacher not trustworthy or competent, I am unlikely to accept their pronouncement that my child has certain problems.

Certainly,it's not within a teacher's domain to diagnose or recommend meds. When my own son was in yeshiva in high school,the principals recommended my son take Ritalin because ,although he wasn't disturbing,he wasn't paying attention all the way through until 9:15 at night. Believe me I gave them a piece of my mind. That being said, A person can be very blinded by emotion when it comes to their children.

241

 Jul 31, 2017 at 10:32 PM Yossi-A Says:

To all those people saying that there is 2 sides to every story, where is ANY hanholo ready to talk???
They are ALL hiding there facesvin shame when they hear Reb Klien's tearful story.
We also have, a daughter that was a bit under par academicly.
We also went to mask for help. We are still, struggling with our story.
The underlying factor with most special neshamos is, they were all embarrassed in PUBLIC by a teacher, principal or Rabbi.
I challenge ANY school administration to write there side of the story.

For any parent out there looking for a a school for there special neshamos, you should contact Rabbi Wallerstien's school in upstate called the Ranch. Yes it cost ALOT of money.
But it's worth every penny.
For anyone out there that can sponsor a child to get the dessperatly needed help at this school, PLEASE PLEASE

242

 Aug 01, 2017 at 12:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #234  
Anonymous Says:

What makes you think that satmar doesn't have these problems?? I know a kid first hand that was recently thrown out of school for the SAME REASON as Malky! They claimed that she's very poor academically!! Luckily they found another school that would accept her. This problem exists EVERYWERE and action must be done immediately! No one should wait to learn a lesson when it chas vsholom happens to their children!

Dont b stupid! Satmars teachings and level of intelligence they deem important any run of the mill kid can be successful. No forum for nonesense.

243

 Aug 01, 2017 at 01:26 AM DyGTX Says:

Reply to #92  
Duvi Honig Says:

You are 100% correct!!
P.S. This is the first time posting a comment on articles but it's something that is Pikuach Nefesh and has to be addressed once and for all..
Attn Mechanchim If you can't love each and every child for who they are then are allowed to run a school..
Hashem created each child with their own strengths and special neshama.. How Dare we judge by scholastic skills and size up a child's future..
If a child is challenged schollasticly we the community need to recognize that it's not an embarassment to have such a child and that can not sit in class a whole day.. "Honestly I can't either"
Years ago before I started Parnassah network I started a school in Baltimore called Yeshiva Ateret together with R Mordechai Luria for boys 16+ and could not sit through a full day of yeshiva. R Belsky and many others sent children there and we were successful saving hundreds of bichurim whom today have beautiful Yiddish family's and some still learning from feeling rejected and ending up on the streets..
However this school was looked upon as boys who couldn't make it which was not the case..
Many of these boys were far smarter then the average Bochur in the system..
Unfortunately it was very hard to fundraise for a yeshiva which was so much needed and in the recession it closed down and that's when Parnassah Network was born to help Yungerlite who feel like failures because they can't provide and go thru similar challenges..
Take away!!
We need to stop commercializing our children's chinuch and married chidrens Parnassah's help identify each ones strength and help stengthen them..
One who looks down on others deserves to be looked down on from others...

Thank you Duvi,
I was a student Duvi's yeshiva . I was at risk . I could of ended on drug and who knows what would be the outcome.
But thanks to rabbi lurie and Duvi Honig . I became something . Married , and a father of 3 wonderful boys . And living a Torah life .

I owe Hakoras ha tov to Duvi and the yeshiva .

No one has any idea how close I was turning my life into using drugs .

244

 Aug 01, 2017 at 03:50 AM Breslover-Kotzker Says:

Reply to #227  
Anonymous Says:

You can get a Masters of Education from Loyola University in Chicago by spending two summers in school. 4 Months total. "Please retract your comment, as you are disseminating extremely incorrect information"

The Loyola Chicago MEd is 24 months.
20 months full time on-line study. 4 months on campus.
The program does not prepare students for licesure.
Loyola is a Jesuit Catholic school. One of those 4 months on campus is at the Pontical Institute in Rome.
I don't know about you, but this program is problematic in many ways.

245

 Aug 01, 2017 at 04:17 AM triumphinwhitehouse Says:

In summary Jewisschools arerun byhacks who make yiddishkeit a subject with no desire to enjoy and expect all to be next Einstein without his ability to be creative

246

 Aug 01, 2017 at 08:51 AM anonymous Says:

Let's turn back the clock before bashing everyone.
Were you the role model parents while she was home, before she left to school, home from school? Instilling in your child yiras shomayim, tznius, loving Hashem, simchas hachayim etc.?or spoiled her & let her do & have whatever she wanted...
Parents are the role models, set the foundation in the home.
it looks like she was depressed, had low self esteem with mental issues, & that being taken care of in her younger years she would do fine.

247

 Aug 01, 2017 at 10:46 AM anonymous Says:

don't blame the school - you would have more otd kids had she stayed on by

248

 Aug 01, 2017 at 11:52 AM Shlomo Rivkin Says:

I myself was a drug addict, for many years I was using cocaine, ketamine, xanax, oxycodone etc...
I also believed I was a victim the only thing that brought to my life was chaos. I think the better question is with so many people today who claim to help drug addicts why are there such minimal results why do Jewish boys and girls continue to pass away where is the solution?!?!?! Drug addiction is a symptom of a spiritual malady. A spiritual solution is the ONLY way to RECOVER from drug addiction. Why do we have to turn to the secular world for a solution when we have it in OUR Torah? Why do people continue to send to rehabs with 3 to 4% success rates? Would you go into a surgery if the doctor told you that you have 3 to 4% chance of living? I and dozens of friends who were drug addicts are no longer drug addicts I was anti religion I am now frum. I went to see so many experts in addiction I have been to multiple treatment centers all failed but one a program called TORAH AND THE TWELVE STEPS. There has not been one graduate of the program in the past 5 years who has relapsed and as a matter of fact all are frum today.

249

 Aug 01, 2017 at 12:12 PM screwchasidim Says:

Reply to #10  
Wiliboy Says:

Turns out the Satmar Rebbe Reb Yoel Zt'l was correct with his Chinuch Habunes. all they need is to be a good wife, all the problems we have now in the non satmar girls school stems from the school who want to compete with their brand name while teaching girls completely NONSENSE.

as a female I have an important message for you:
You are a cruel horrible human being. your assumption that you have the right to believe that you can dictate what a woman's role makes you stupid. the premise that females belong at home is cruel and sexist!
DUDE, WERE IN THE 21 CENTURY!!!! GROW UP!!!!
men are not better, smarter or more deserving of making decisions.
you do not control us or have the right to tell us what we should or should not do.

250

 Aug 01, 2017 at 01:25 PM hernoor Says:

Reply to #248  
Shlomo Rivkin Says:

I myself was a drug addict, for many years I was using cocaine, ketamine, xanax, oxycodone etc...
I also believed I was a victim the only thing that brought to my life was chaos. I think the better question is with so many people today who claim to help drug addicts why are there such minimal results why do Jewish boys and girls continue to pass away where is the solution?!?!?! Drug addiction is a symptom of a spiritual malady. A spiritual solution is the ONLY way to RECOVER from drug addiction. Why do we have to turn to the secular world for a solution when we have it in OUR Torah? Why do people continue to send to rehabs with 3 to 4% success rates? Would you go into a surgery if the doctor told you that you have 3 to 4% chance of living? I and dozens of friends who were drug addicts are no longer drug addicts I was anti religion I am now frum. I went to see so many experts in addiction I have been to multiple treatment centers all failed but one a program called TORAH AND THE TWELVE STEPS. There has not been one graduate of the program in the past 5 years who has relapsed and as a matter of fact all are frum today.

You are a smart person. After making mistakes, you turned your life around instead of blaming others.

251

 Aug 01, 2017 at 01:44 PM hernoor Says:

Reply to #201  
Heeb Says:

Please don't tell me where you live!! I will come to you with my doberman my German shepherd and a baseball bat to straighten your stupid self out!

With such a parent, one can understand why your kid had problems in yeshiva and is "thriving" in public school.

252

 Aug 01, 2017 at 02:05 PM Heeb Says:

Reply to #236  
Redmond Says:

I attended MAY, graduated in 2014 and I visit there often to learn and talk with the current students of the Yeshiva. No one asked me to do that, so why would I? Because Rabbi Yaffe and MAY are amazing, and they both have given me a strong foundation to build my life on. I feel compelled to be involved as much as possible in supporting a beacon of light in the Yeshiva system. A Yeshiva where each guy was looked at for who he was and given a unique route in chinuch that is best for his growth.

In my graduating class and in the Yeshiva now there are many sephardim, and they are not treated any differently. If there is any Menahel who would not be elitist and biased to any type of Jew it is Rabbi Yaffe and the amazing mechanchim at Mesivta Ateres Yaakov.

You have your experiences I, as well as a plethora of other parents have our own experience. Yours was positive mine was negative. I stand by my assertion.

253

 Aug 01, 2017 at 02:13 PM Heeb Says:

Reply to #251  
hernoor Says:

With such a parent, one can understand why your kid had problems in yeshiva and is "thriving" in public school.

Your comments are so full of profound intellect. I would love for you to become my Rabbi teacher and Mentor. Please let's make those arrangements for that. I'll pay you $500 an hour in cash, so that you don't have to report it to the IRS.

254

 Aug 01, 2017 at 02:39 PM hernoor Says:

Reply to #253  
Heeb Says:

Your comments are so full of profound intellect. I would love for you to become my Rabbi teacher and Mentor. Please let's make those arrangements for that. I'll pay you $500 an hour in cash, so that you don't have to report it to the IRS.

I don't take less than $1000 an hour.

255

 Aug 01, 2017 at 04:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #53  
Blame game Says:

I cannot imagine the pain this family is going through. At the same time let's be honest here. She died from a drug overdose. Many people die everyday from it unfortunately. It's a plague on our society. So let's stop blaming others for our challenges. If the article puts light to the fact that the orthodox Jewish community has this problem as well as the general society then it's very worthy. To blame a school or principal for your problems is disingenuous.

People do not turn to drugs because they want to. People turn to drugs because they were hurt badly and try to find something to make the pain fade. Obviously drugs is not the solution, but for their them, it is a temporary one. And to all those who claim, that a comment from 16 years ago could not have caused any of this, I have news for you ignorants: may you never ever know the pain of emotional scars.

256

 Aug 01, 2017 at 08:12 PM Yonason_Herschlag Says:

The solution is very simple. Schools need to have a staff of top psychologists and psychiatrists. Most principles and administrators are a far cry from top professional psychologists. There are so many different problems that kids can have, and until you get an accurate diagnosis, you can’t help the kid.
I’ll give you an example. I have a boy that started with reading problems in kita mechina. We hired tutors for him for reading, and we sent him to the best reading rehab place in Jerusalem, but without succeeding in reading, he became a behavior problem. After eight grade he was thrown out of school. The next school held him for a year and a half before they had their fill with my boy’s behavior problems. At that point I had him tested for the second time by a top psychologist. He did detect some minor ADHD and impulsivity, but he also suspected an eye focus problem. Even though we previously ruled out an eye focus problem with a local eye test, the psychologist sent us to an expert optometrist who diagnosed that he did in fact have an eye focus problem. After several months of practicing eye exercises, his eye focus problem has been conquered, and he can read normally, albeit a li

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 Aug 01, 2017 at 08:13 PM Yonason Herschlag Says:

, albeit a little slower than most kids his age.
Another boy we have also struggled in several different schools and couldn’t bear going to school. We paid top dollar for a few psychological tests until we finally discovered that he suffers from Social Communications Disorder. We searched all over the country for a school that can handle his problem. Boruch Hashem the last year has been much better. He’s happy to go to school.
Folks… the problems need to be diagnosed by top experts. Once you know exactly the problem you can begin to deal with it. It’s very simple… each problem kid needs to be properly and professionally tested and diagnosed.

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 Aug 01, 2017 at 08:32 PM Yonason_Herschlag Says:

Two more points.
1. If a school can't afford to provide the necessary psychological testing, they should at least direct the parents to someone they have verified is qualified to make the needed diagnosis.
2. Instead of simply "throwing out" a kid, the school needs to follow through after getting the proper diagnosis (sometimes a second or third opinion is needed), they then need to guide the parents advising them on the best possible places that can treat a child with that particular problem. That means that the principles need to be aware of ALL the possible schools. They do need to take this responsibility for properly placing problem kids. It's literally the difference between life and death.

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 Aug 01, 2017 at 09:38 PM Heeb Says:

Reply to #244  
Breslover-Kotzker Says:

The Loyola Chicago MEd is 24 months.
20 months full time on-line study. 4 months on campus.
The program does not prepare students for licesure.
Loyola is a Jesuit Catholic school. One of those 4 months on campus is at the Pontical Institute in Rome.
I don't know about you, but this program is problematic in many ways.

Thank you for clarifying!

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 Aug 01, 2017 at 11:33 PM BLONDI Says:

Reply to #171  
Anonymous Says:

You are not even close to the target. You describe this as a sad and tragic health issue. You have missed the point completely. Malky was a victim. She was shamed publicly, rejected, and prevented from having a safe environment. She was not a drug addict when her teacher murdered her spirit in second grade. It is not a random comparison when the Gemora compares public embarrassment to murder. And for those who might argue that this might pertain only to an adult, halacha says clearly that a child victim is the same issur.

This is not a health tragedy. That is a gross misrepresentation. You are trying to defend a broken system that has stripped the concern for the individual student out of the mission, and replaced it with some valueless image of success and academic excellence. We have a serious problem, one that contributed is a large way to the loss of this neshomoh. What are we ready to do to stop the plague?

you got it....not everyone commenting here does. I am a woman in my 50s. I remember myself in 5th grade asking a morah a question, she answered, " from a question, you don't die" sic translated from yiddish. i mentally told myself, dont ask any questions. i basically stopped participating in school. It took me a long time to gain some confidence back. You dont forget what a teacher tells you in front of everyone in class. True, not all teachers are so defensive when they dont know how to handle a situation or question. Not so long ago we had music, sewing and home economics(cooking, baking) What happened to them? What happened to the ez courses where no one failed and brought up your average?
My heart is breaking, my eyes crying for the Klein family and the previous families. May we never lose another child again, have Moshiach come speedily in our days.AMEN V:AMEN