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Jerusalem - Prominent Israeli Educator: Schools Murdered Malky Klein; Public Must Demand Changes To Educational System

Published on: August 16, 2017 09:02 PM
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Rabbi Chaim Yisroel Blumenfeld of  Yeshiva Neveh Zion, also known as “The Mash” Rabbi Chaim Yisroel Blumenfeld of Yeshiva Neveh Zion, also known as “The Mash”

Jerusalem - Moved to tears after learning the details of the tragic life and death of Malky Klein, a renowned Israeli educator slammed those who rejected the teen in her formative years and called upon his former students to demand an overhaul of the current educational system.

Rabbi Chaim Yisroel Blumenfeld has been a key figure at Yeshiva Neveh Zion since 1978, serving as the school’s dean and spiritual advisor and forging long lasting connections with students. Known fondly by his students as “The Mash,” Rabbi Blumenfeld has helped steer thousands of young men through their formative years, including many who, like Malky, led difficult lives.

After hearing how Malky turned to drugs after being shunned by multiple schools, Rabbi Blumenfeld sent a letter to Neveh Zion’s friends and alumni, sharing his outrage and wondering if any of the responsible parties were ever held accountable for their actions.

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“What I want to know is what was done with those ‘educators?’” wrote Rabbi Blumenfeld. “Was the principal that sent her away ... dismissed? Was the school closed? Such educators are not educators, they are murderers.”

Rabbi Blumenfeld also castigated community leaders for not demanding change in the system on behalf of the many Malkys who are slipping through the cracks.

Having taught many students who, like Malky, faced educational challenges, Rabbi Blumenfeld noted that our schools must learn how to deal with students with learning disabilities, focusing more on instilling a love of yiddishkeit than on enforcing unrealistic expectations.

“I think the schools are too worried about their reputations and not enough about what a child needs,” Rabbi Blumenfeld told VIN News. “There is so much concern about finishing the curriculum, overly high standards and having better girls. It is a senseless competition that goes against the matara of Bais Yaakov.”

The goal of a girls school should be to transmit proper Jewish values and not to see how many Rambans students can learn in a year, observed Rabbi Blumenfeld.

“Down the road they are going to forget most of those Rambans but those middos will be with them for the rest of their lives,” said Rabbi Blumenfeld.

Boys’ yeshivos are plagued by the same failures as the girls’ schools and the situation will likely continue unless there is a public outcry demanding change, observed Rabbi Blumenfeld.

“There has to be a re-evaluation of the entire system,” said Rabbi Blumenfeld. “The world is changing so fast - today a generation is only two years - and our schools are not keeping up with that reality.”

Concluding his letter, Rabbi Blumenfeld challenged readers who live near the Kleins and the schools that rejected Malky to take a stand to prevent future heartbreak and tragedy.

“One word to our alumni who live in Boro Park,” wrote Rabbi Blumenfeld. “The ball is in your court.”

Read below the email sent out today by Rabbi Chaim Yisroel Blumenfeld the Rosh HaYeshiva at Yeshiva Neveh Zion in Israel.

Dear Alumni and Friends,

Once in a while something happens which so overwhelms me that I must share it with you, our alumni and friends.  This time it was a story which occurred not long ago.  At first I heard it from recent talmidim.  I hesitated to write about it since I didn’t want to publicize something so negative about the system.  It was a tragic story of a young girl who overdosed.  But last week her father told her story and it was published in the Mishpacha, Issue 672, 17 Av – August 9, 2017.  While I read the article, I was interrupted three times (yeshiva business) but each time I returned to it, I shed tears.  I am sure others who read the article did so as well.

Malky was a young girl who suffered from severe learning disabilities.  For her to concentrate was actually painful.  We know what this is, as we observe in some of our talmidim.  But she was a spirited girl and tried so hard.  The first high school she was accepted to notified her the evening before the year was to begin that her acceptance was nullified.  How do you do that?  The second school dismissed her because she wasn’t intellectually mastering her studies.  I don’t understand.  What is the purpose of Bais Yaakov and educating girls?  Is it to master Rambans on Chumash?  Or is it to use Ramban’s on Chumash to help a young lady become a ba’alas middos and have the hashkafa, the Torah outlook of a bas Yisroel?  Only if the purpose of your Bais Yaakov is to gain a reputation so that parents who can afford it will want to flock to your school, only such a motive can blind “educators” to think that mastering the curriculum is most important.

But the third school was the most absurd.  She was asked to leave because she committed a hideous crime of giving another student a gift that was worth $20 and considered too much by the administration.  Her father explained, “She was a new student and wanted to be friendly, she wanted to make friends.  ‘No’, said the wise educator, ‘she wanted to buy off other students.”  Is that giving the benefit of the doubt?  Not only that but she actually brought a second, a new briefcase to school.  Her father explained that to compensate for her having to switch schools again he got her a new briefcase which didn’t come until then.  For this, you throw a girl out of your school and into the streets?  Her father begged them not to ask her to leave until he finds a new school.  But when he returned home she was lying on the floor and crying, with her books sprawled out – they didn’t wait.

Malky found acceptance on the streets, she got into the wrong crowd and eventually overdosed.  She had not found acceptance, love, empathy, understanding or encouragement from those schools that contradict the values of the Torah and mitzvos they are meant to teach. 

What I want to know is what was done with those “educators”?  Was the principal that sent her away because of the gift and briefcase dismissed?  Was the school closed?  Such educators are not educators, they are murderers.  Have the leaders of that community stood up and demanded changes in the ‘system’?  Or are we just to sit back and perhaps shed a few tears and allow the system to cripple our children?

One word to our alumni who live in Boro Park, the ball is in your court.

Hatzlacha and kol tuv,

Mash



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Read Comments (102)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Aug 16, 2017 at 09:17 PM Anonymous Says:

Interesting how he could judge someone for murder by reading the claims of one side.

2

 Aug 16, 2017 at 09:39 PM Wise-Guy Says:

Why doesn't anybody name the schools that practices such sinful behaviour?!(after giving the schools a chance to voice their side of the story...)

Such publicity will serve as a future deterrent and, therefore, is likely not Loshon-Ho'ra. (albeit I'm not authorized to Pasken this Shailoh on my own.)

Honestly, if the Administrator/Principal carried out such vicious injustice, I would not trade places with them for all the gold in Fort-Knox.

3

 Aug 16, 2017 at 09:59 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Interesting how he could judge someone for murder by reading the claims of one side.

There is.no other side . You don't send a girl away unless you have another proper school for them period . End of discussion

4

 Aug 16, 2017 at 10:14 PM dermunkatcher Says:

I am quite sure that he also heard the side of the story of those educators that he is asking if they were dismissed.
???"Prominent Israeli Educator" ???
First time I have heard of him was today on Vosiznies.

5

 Aug 16, 2017 at 10:50 PM Boreparker26 Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Interesting how he could judge someone for murder by reading the claims of one side.

Are you by any chance an 'educator'?

6

 Aug 16, 2017 at 11:26 PM ah yid Says:

An educator wrote this? .I wish people will stop blaming the schools I have a number of children who didn't pass the farhers to get into the mesivtas that their friends went to. I know the feeling of trying to get into a level 2 yeshiva..I know the feeling to have children be out of yeshiva at age 15. However I'm a rebbi in an elementary yeshiva so I get to see the other side of the story. First of all the first upgrade must be with teacher training. To be a rov ,a dayan, a sofer, schochet etc you need shimush. - hands on training and a mentor. The most a rebbi or morah does today is go to year of teacher classes or some workshops. Second every parent must go to parenting classes. As a rebbi I see it year after year parents who push their children too much. If there is a social issue they often blame everyone else besides the source of the problem .and to go for help is a small fortune. Parents are over whelmed.by many pressures especially financial and if there is a problem they push it off until its a big problem. The yeshivas have to have resource rooms to help struggling students. Often the 10-15 minutes even once a week is enough to bring many students up to par.

7

 Aug 16, 2017 at 11:34 PM speech48 Says:

anyone who needs to hear the other side...
pls go ask mechilla at the graves of the lost humble neshamas...
we as a klal better open our hearts and deal with this machla...

8

 Aug 17, 2017 at 12:19 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
ah yid Says:

An educator wrote this? .I wish people will stop blaming the schools I have a number of children who didn't pass the farhers to get into the mesivtas that their friends went to. I know the feeling of trying to get into a level 2 yeshiva..I know the feeling to have children be out of yeshiva at age 15. However I'm a rebbi in an elementary yeshiva so I get to see the other side of the story. First of all the first upgrade must be with teacher training. To be a rov ,a dayan, a sofer, schochet etc you need shimush. - hands on training and a mentor. The most a rebbi or morah does today is go to year of teacher classes or some workshops. Second every parent must go to parenting classes. As a rebbi I see it year after year parents who push their children too much. If there is a social issue they often blame everyone else besides the source of the problem .and to go for help is a small fortune. Parents are over whelmed.by many pressures especially financial and if there is a problem they push it off until its a big problem. The yeshivas have to have resource rooms to help struggling students. Often the 10-15 minutes even once a week is enough to bring many students up to par.

You bring up many valid pointers . But the issue is not whether Malky got a proper education or not . The point is even if a school does not have a resource room and it's rabbeim or teachers are not well trained and the parents are not involved with their children nevertheless you let the kid stay in school . That's even if the child spaces out during every class and the school is ill equipped to educate the child you still keep him or her in school . If you care you can try to place the child in another school ( even that must be done with caution as the child may have a social life already in your school and that child may resent being shtipped into a second tier school away from her friends ) However the main point is you don't throw a child out of school .

9

 Aug 17, 2017 at 12:31 AM Heimisher Says:

Shame on us for allowing this to go on for so many years. We are allowing people to turn educating our future generations into personal businesses.

10

 Aug 17, 2017 at 12:52 AM Frish Says:

Reply to #4  
dermunkatcher Says:

I am quite sure that he also heard the side of the story of those educators that he is asking if they were dismissed.
???"Prominent Israeli Educator" ???
First time I have heard of him was today on Vosiznies.

U b"h didnt have to hear of him cause ur probably a great kid
This " mash" is world renown he deals with the toughest of the tough and just gives & gives love love love he saved countless lives.
So u ignorant bum do ur research

11

 Aug 17, 2017 at 12:58 AM retired educator Says:

Reply to #6  
ah yid Says:

An educator wrote this? .I wish people will stop blaming the schools I have a number of children who didn't pass the farhers to get into the mesivtas that their friends went to. I know the feeling of trying to get into a level 2 yeshiva..I know the feeling to have children be out of yeshiva at age 15. However I'm a rebbi in an elementary yeshiva so I get to see the other side of the story. First of all the first upgrade must be with teacher training. To be a rov ,a dayan, a sofer, schochet etc you need shimush. - hands on training and a mentor. The most a rebbi or morah does today is go to year of teacher classes or some workshops. Second every parent must go to parenting classes. As a rebbi I see it year after year parents who push their children too much. If there is a social issue they often blame everyone else besides the source of the problem .and to go for help is a small fortune. Parents are over whelmed.by many pressures especially financial and if there is a problem they push it off until its a big problem. The yeshivas have to have resource rooms to help struggling students. Often the 10-15 minutes even once a week is enough to bring many students up to par.

Your post pinpoints the problem. We can't just blame the schools... there are many factors in a child's downfall, some more significant than others.

From what I read and heard, Malky was lucky in that she had caring parents who fought for her. But who was guiding THEM? I get the impression they were struggling on their own - every school needs an independent parent/student advocate, not hired by the school but appointed by Torah U'Mesorah and paid by the government.Not a guidance counselor but someone who is familiar with all legal and emotional aspects of exclusion.

I have to say, the biggest culprits here are the "friends" who sucked her into this underworld. I had to face the fact my child was drawn to some borderline unsavory people and I dealt with it. I nipped it in the bud because things hadn't progressed very far.

There needs to be a "Malky's Contract" whereby our schools accept their responsibilities as educators and prepare for all eventualities.i fought for my students but there was no backing from the schools. I would like to become involved in such a project.

Finally ... I agree with the Mash - how can these "educators" sleep? To Ah Yid - your students are lucky.

12

 Aug 17, 2017 at 01:14 AM lazy-boy Says:

Yes, I have personally known girls who have been turned away from the Bais Yaakov system because of one foolish action on their part. The parents try to get her in different schools but none will take her.

Certainly these girls finds themselves friend-less and depressed. It is the school that shares responsibility to educate them and the school drops their responsibility in order to preserve its "pure" name.

Yes the heads of the schools and the teachers share in responsibility of girls who are not allowed a second chance to come back. They are elitist murderers and deserve a special place in gehenom although in our frum society they only seem to get ahead and succeed; they are not doing their jobs properly.

13

 Aug 17, 2017 at 01:39 AM hernoor Says:

STOP BLAMING THE SCHOOLS! STOP BLAMING THE PRINCIPAL! Enough! I am very critical of schools' education and I feel they must incorporate more creative and intellectual type of learning as opposed to all this memorization they keep on pushing. Nevertheless, it is stupid to blame the schools every time a child gets thrown out. In a previous post I wrote why I felt the principal had a right to do what she did. Then I heard Mr. Klein's speach and I felt I had judged Malky unfairly and asked the parents to be moichel me for saying bad things about her. But after more research, I now understand the principal . In fact, the school who threw her out had accepted her despite of her learning disabilities, do you think they would throw her out because of it? The parents too did not ask the school to throw her out because of the marks. It is incredibly naive to think so. The principal had every right to do what she did to protect other students in the school . If anyone is being murdered, it is the poor principal who simply wanted to protect her other students and had every right to do so.

14

 Aug 17, 2017 at 01:39 AM Anonymous Says:

This happened to my daughter. She was in a well known school in Flatbush and was pushed into a special Ed program in another school. I was not given an opportunity to see if the program was appropriate for her instead I was lied to and bullied by people who honestly believe they are frum because they wear the frum uniform. The new school thought that their only job was to provide free rent to this special ed program and they were ill prepared to deal with a group of girls that were looked upon by other students as second class citizens. Suffice to say this devastated my daughter and we as a family are dealing with the long term repercussions. Let's just say she hates yiddishkeit because her frum role models in both schools let her down. I'm sure there are many parents who are facing this and their children's pain might not be visible to outsiders but are paralyzed and don't demand change because they are too busy picking up the pieces from misguided educators. Just like there are dysfunctional parents who don't be want to deal with reality there are many uneducated ill prepared educators who don't update their skills and come to their jobs with their own emotional baggage or just plain arrogance. Remember, there is a very strong emotional component to teaching, children are not empty pitchers that you just pour water into.

15

 Aug 17, 2017 at 02:48 AM Anonymous Says:

I know of a sweet girl in a mainstream school that her behavior was borderline ADD but she was so trying to please. The teachers had such pachad from her as if she would all round them up when all she wanted was to sit and listen but of course wasnt it came very hard on her.
Came hi school, she was so humble but the teachers cldnt accept her as a fresh kid wanting to make a fresh start. It was the third day of school that she was kicked out ONLY because of borrowing a paper. They just saw her moving and thought an explosion is rocking. She cried bitter crocodile tears and was accepted back in. Teachers, principals lack the umph and measure to be soft to a child that humbly tries to be obedient. They can never erase the past. If this girl grew up normal is a big nes.
Our teachers are old and nervous. Yidishe neshumas should not be at their disposal. I can go on and on. Tremendous change needs to sweep thru our systems. Its rusty and kids are getting badly affected.

16

 Aug 17, 2017 at 03:27 AM triumphinwhitehouse Says:

Yeshiva are now literally competing to be the jewish Harvard with anyone even slightly uncomformist kicked out, there is no love of Judaism taught all numbers and grades and of course, money. I had to say it but I have a hard time convincing those that aren't drum or on fringes to send kids to yeshiva where they'll struggle and have no support.

17

 Aug 17, 2017 at 04:27 AM rbsmom Says:

The Mash is 100% correct. These "educators/principals" are responsible for Malky's death.
Response to #4, the Mash has saved thousands of boys that were similar to Malky. I had friends that went to Neve, and they are incredible people whose lives were turned around bec of The Mash.
Kol Hakavod for saying it as it is and not being scared of what people wold say. It's time to hear the truth about these ridiculous schools who are "so frum" but can literally kill a Jewish neshoma. My kids who didn't go thru the Bais Yaakov system are much better off than these Bais Yaakov girls.
May Malky's neshama have an aliya and may her parents have the strength to go on.

18

 Aug 17, 2017 at 04:41 AM Lipshitz Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Interesting how he could judge someone for murder by reading the claims of one side.

As if we don't all know that those stories are מעשים בכל יום - including the part about her spread out on the floor and crying

20

 Aug 17, 2017 at 05:21 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

There is.no other side . You don't send a girl away unless you have another proper school for them period . End of discussion

There is no such a thing "there is no other side" In your home you are the Balebus
But every where else you always have to hear two sides.

21

 Aug 17, 2017 at 06:24 AM Robert Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

There is.no other side . You don't send a girl away unless you have another proper school for them period . End of discussion

My daughter was a weak student and a mild learning disability

Her school in New Jersey would not even let her apply to their high school although they did give her a chance to complete 8 grade

No other Jewish schools would take her nor give her a flight accommodation


Some did not even return a phone call looking for information while others were polite but the answer was no

We sent her to public school where they had the resources to educate her and most importantly we felt that they actually wanted her there in their school despite an IEP

She graduated without special courses her last year and is now in college

She is getting by in college and trying
We love her so much and with Gods help she will keep succeeding

Sadly she lost four years of the Jewish social connection and chance to grow jewishly in high school

On the positive side
Her old school in New Jersey has a solid reputation for its academic rigor and for producing the finest Jewish girls

22

 Aug 17, 2017 at 06:50 AM Tzippy Says:

We are facing major problems these days with the "Chareidi" school system. There are too many problems to list. I too, wish there was a way for us to help educators understand children better, especially in this day.Schools need to focus on each child as an individual, and love, and respect them for who they are. They need to appreciate their strengths, along with their weaknesses, and guide them in a kind, patient, respectful manner. The focus on how smart a child is, is not a Jewish one, and is destroying many children.We certainly can not blame the school system for all of our children's problems, At the same time, schools are responsible for their students chinuch during school hours, and are not taking this job seriously enough.The horrific stories of teachers putting students down for unimportant things, are mind blowing.I am not sure how we can change the current "system", and if we can at all. We are living in crazy times,and we must all do our best to educate our children in the proper way, with respect, and kindness, focusing on the important things, like Middos, and Mitzvos, and pray for their hatzlocha, more than that I am not sure what we can do unfortunately.

23

 Aug 17, 2017 at 07:55 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
hernoor Says:

STOP BLAMING THE SCHOOLS! STOP BLAMING THE PRINCIPAL! Enough! I am very critical of schools' education and I feel they must incorporate more creative and intellectual type of learning as opposed to all this memorization they keep on pushing. Nevertheless, it is stupid to blame the schools every time a child gets thrown out. In a previous post I wrote why I felt the principal had a right to do what she did. Then I heard Mr. Klein's speach and I felt I had judged Malky unfairly and asked the parents to be moichel me for saying bad things about her. But after more research, I now understand the principal . In fact, the school who threw her out had accepted her despite of her learning disabilities, do you think they would throw her out because of it? The parents too did not ask the school to throw her out because of the marks. It is incredibly naive to think so. The principal had every right to do what she did to protect other students in the school . If anyone is being murdered, it is the poor principal who simply wanted to protect her other students and had every right to do so.

"The principal threw her out to " protect" other students ? Well years ago Beis Yakov of Williamsburg and Torah vodaath had plenty of not so frum students together with big Reba 's kids . No one ever got thrown out for being a bad influence . Big deal you teach your child how to remain frum despite less frum friends . It's a new mishigas and it's very bad .

24

 Aug 17, 2017 at 08:11 AM Anonymous Says:

I think many commenters are overthinking all this . They claim schools don't hire qualified enough teachers and rabboem and they are ill equipped etc ..

I think the opposite is true . We have become crazy about therapy and individual attention etc . Then if we can't provide it, schools get all nervous and have to place kids on special ed or other schools ... Just let the kid live . Yes let her go thru classes flunking . Life will go on . Don't worry so much about her perfect therapy and ADD . As long as she has a social life just chill . It's true you should try to help her . But if it doesn't work nu so what . There are plenty of great moms with reading disabilities . As long as the kid is sociable relax .

As a side note , anyone who says rabbiem are not qualified should look. at the past . Rabbiem use to be nervous wreck holocaust survivors who just smacked the kids all day . And it was not better in Europe . A rebbe job has historically been a shleper job . Nowadays rabbiem get paid very nicely all considering that it's a semi part time job . And they are far more qualified . However I think we have gone to the other extreme where everything has to be so perfect and analyzed and therapzed in chinuch.

25

 Aug 17, 2017 at 08:49 AM Danniel Says:

Reply to #4  
dermunkatcher Says:

I am quite sure that he also heard the side of the story of those educators that he is asking if they were dismissed.
???"Prominent Israeli Educator" ???
First time I have heard of him was today on Vosiznies.

I never heard of you..."dear munkatcher" are you Jewish?

26

 Aug 17, 2017 at 08:50 AM Danniel Says:

Reply to #10  
Frish Says:

U b"h didnt have to hear of him cause ur probably a great kid
This " mash" is world renown he deals with the toughest of the tough and just gives & gives love love love he saved countless lives.
So u ignorant bum do ur research

Well said!!

27

 Aug 17, 2017 at 09:06 AM Anonymous Says:

We don't have an achriyas f Jewish children. We receive a salary and perform commensurate with the salary Who cares about a yiddishe neshomo

28

 Aug 17, 2017 at 09:11 AM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #9  
Heimisher Says:

Shame on us for allowing this to go on for so many years. We are allowing people to turn educating our future generations into personal businesses.

There are many problems but this is one of them that education in the Frum world is a business. I have no problems with having some "private" for profit schools, but there has to be an option of a few "public"/"community" schools. Especially in the large Frum communities. It is a total failure by leadership to allow this to happen.

So you may ask why does Agudah and TU do something about it? All of their leadership is in this line of business. It is mammish the Foxes watching the sheep. Amazing and a utter total failure by our leadership. How do we throw these bums out!!

29

 Aug 17, 2017 at 09:19 AM Anonymous Says:

In my days (the 80's) I had two girls that I recall who did zero work and made it through 12 years of BY. Guess what? They are both married. I shudder to think how they would've ended up in this harsh society especially because one of them did not come from an intact family. For everyone who said the school and principal should not be blamed please read Rabbi Shais's article in Ami two weeks ago. I'm sure when the principal rejected her she was not shooting up herion and doing meth!

30

 Aug 17, 2017 at 09:20 AM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #13  
hernoor Says:

STOP BLAMING THE SCHOOLS! STOP BLAMING THE PRINCIPAL! Enough! I am very critical of schools' education and I feel they must incorporate more creative and intellectual type of learning as opposed to all this memorization they keep on pushing. Nevertheless, it is stupid to blame the schools every time a child gets thrown out. In a previous post I wrote why I felt the principal had a right to do what she did. Then I heard Mr. Klein's speach and I felt I had judged Malky unfairly and asked the parents to be moichel me for saying bad things about her. But after more research, I now understand the principal . In fact, the school who threw her out had accepted her despite of her learning disabilities, do you think they would throw her out because of it? The parents too did not ask the school to throw her out because of the marks. It is incredibly naive to think so. The principal had every right to do what she did to protect other students in the school . If anyone is being murdered, it is the poor principal who simply wanted to protect her other students and had every right to do so.

I remember reading recently that a Rav said that Yiddeshkeit is a War. We lose some here and there. Its the price to pay to keep everything in order. When I read it I thought it was disgusting. Well you eloquently just said the same thing. We need to save "others" but it's OK to kick out others.

What needs to happen is if a child does not fit the mold there should be other options available!! These schools should not feel like nebach cases. It happens to be in the Boys Yeshivas there are a few like these (Waterbury and Eastontown to name a few). There are very very few options in the girls schools and that is a problem

33

 Aug 17, 2017 at 09:26 AM hernoor Says:

Reply to #23  
Anonymous Says:

"The principal threw her out to " protect" other students ? Well years ago Beis Yakov of Williamsburg and Torah vodaath had plenty of not so frum students together with big Reba 's kids . No one ever got thrown out for being a bad influence . Big deal you teach your child how to remain frum despite less frum friends . It's a new mishigas and it's very bad .

Do you realize that we lives in different times, in a different secular culture?! Do you realize that things that were unthinkable years ago is now accessed at the press of a button? Do you realize that kids ( and adults too) are impressionable by what they see and hear? When the world would be like twenty years ago regarding morality then you have a point, but this situation is incompatible. Many,many kids HAVE influenced others negatively!

34

 Aug 17, 2017 at 09:32 AM georgeg Says:

Reply to #24  
Anonymous Says:

I think many commenters are overthinking all this . They claim schools don't hire qualified enough teachers and rabboem and they are ill equipped etc ..

I think the opposite is true . We have become crazy about therapy and individual attention etc . Then if we can't provide it, schools get all nervous and have to place kids on special ed or other schools ... Just let the kid live . Yes let her go thru classes flunking . Life will go on . Don't worry so much about her perfect therapy and ADD . As long as she has a social life just chill . It's true you should try to help her . But if it doesn't work nu so what . There are plenty of great moms with reading disabilities . As long as the kid is sociable relax .

As a side note , anyone who says rabbiem are not qualified should look. at the past . Rabbiem use to be nervous wreck holocaust survivors who just smacked the kids all day . And it was not better in Europe . A rebbe job has historically been a shleper job . Nowadays rabbiem get paid very nicely all considering that it's a semi part time job . And they are far more qualified . However I think we have gone to the other extreme where everything has to be so perfect and analyzed and therapzed in chinuch.

> should look. at the past

For context I went to heder and graduated through the whole system grades 1 through 9 (at the time there up to 9) in the 1960's and then to yeshivah/high school. I have heard of such things. Perhaps they even happened somewhere at sometime. I even personally know someone it happened to (and real extremely - though now he is a professional career it still bothers him deeply). But they are like the old complaint "how come every time I shower the phone rings". Yeah, sometimes it might happen, but those who love to complain only remember those occasions where the phone interrupted their shower and forget that nearly all other times it did not happen.

In the days of "the past" (as you put it), the relative corporeal punishment between the Jewish and the non-Jewish systems was like night-and-day, where the non-Jewish systems come out as medieval torture chambers by comparison to the Jewish.

35

 Aug 17, 2017 at 09:44 AM inNY Says:

There are 'Rashaim Aririm' who sit on school boards who are like the nazi Josef Mengele Ym's who made decision which will die, you go right, or left, and those so called 'Lidegiers' on the boards who have zero understanding of 'Chinuch' they decide, accept, or not accept. sooner or later this bubble will burst, and the elitism schools will fall like straw.

36

 Aug 17, 2017 at 09:50 AM Anonymous Says:

1) קשוט עצמך תחילה
To read an Israeli criticizing American schools is a joke!
In Israeli Yeshivas a boy gets kicked out of Yeshiva if his father goes to work!

2) A few decades ago many Yeshivas were mixed with frum & not kids in the same class. The biggest upshot of it was it allowed the not frum to remain Jewish and even become frum.

37

 Aug 17, 2017 at 09:56 AM answers Says:

Having very close family members as principals in local schools I will make the following observation:
When a boy or girl is out of a school for whatever reason, and a well intentioned rav or askan calls the principal and puts pressure on the principal to just try it, many times, they are doing a disservice to all.
Prinicpal: Do you know the child personally?
Askan: No, but it is a chashuve family.
Principal: Will you at least take achrayus to raise 25,000 dollars for an in house tutor so that I can do whatever necessary to make it work?
Askan: NO! the parenst are paying so much tuition already!
Principal: So in other words, you want me to take the child that

38

 Aug 17, 2017 at 10:03 AM answers Says:

you don't know to a school that you are slightly familiar with, and walk away a hero without any achrayus?!
Anyone that wants to help the children with schooling should walk into the principals office with a minimum 10,000 check (besides tuition) and tell the principal that here is my cell number and call me if there is anything I can do to help.
Sorry, it my book it all comes down to money in general. In Malkies case it seems that Mr. Klein did offer anything he could and he and only he is able to be a baal davar here.
Oh and Mash, Remeber what chazal said: Chachamim , hizaharu bedivreichem. Please be careful to call anyone a murderer as sad and unfortunate this story is.

39

 Aug 17, 2017 at 10:05 AM inNY Says:

Reply to #37  
answers Says:

Having very close family members as principals in local schools I will make the following observation:
When a boy or girl is out of a school for whatever reason, and a well intentioned rav or askan calls the principal and puts pressure on the principal to just try it, many times, they are doing a disservice to all.
Prinicpal: Do you know the child personally?
Askan: No, but it is a chashuve family.
Principal: Will you at least take achrayus to raise 25,000 dollars for an in house tutor so that I can do whatever necessary to make it work?
Askan: NO! the parenst are paying so much tuition already!
Principal: So in other words, you want me to take the child that

That is a load of crap, i can tell u from experience through the system, that most parents are willing to do anything to get into a school including paying for private help so the girl follows through the schools system, but your talking to deaf ears, because the school system is setup for PUBLIC RELATION, so that the street talks what a great school they are.. and let me tell you many of those elite schools including 'Mesilas' in BP has FARDURBANU girls, despite what Mrs. Tabak sells you, she is a meister of a shyster. I know this first hand.

40

 Aug 17, 2017 at 10:05 AM Velvel Says:

Reply to #21  
Robert Says:

My daughter was a weak student and a mild learning disability

Her school in New Jersey would not even let her apply to their high school although they did give her a chance to complete 8 grade

No other Jewish schools would take her nor give her a flight accommodation


Some did not even return a phone call looking for information while others were polite but the answer was no

We sent her to public school where they had the resources to educate her and most importantly we felt that they actually wanted her there in their school despite an IEP

She graduated without special courses her last year and is now in college

She is getting by in college and trying
We love her so much and with Gods help she will keep succeeding

Sadly she lost four years of the Jewish social connection and chance to grow jewishly in high school

On the positive side
Her old school in New Jersey has a solid reputation for its academic rigor and for producing the finest Jewish girls

You did the right thing for your daughter and you should be proud. May your daughter be Matzliach in everything she does.

41

 Aug 17, 2017 at 10:09 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #30  
FBF37 Says:

I remember reading recently that a Rav said that Yiddeshkeit is a War. We lose some here and there. Its the price to pay to keep everything in order. When I read it I thought it was disgusting. Well you eloquently just said the same thing. We need to save "others" but it's OK to kick out others.

What needs to happen is if a child does not fit the mold there should be other options available!! These schools should not feel like nebach cases. It happens to be in the Boys Yeshivas there are a few like these (Waterbury and Eastontown to name a few). There are very very few options in the girls schools and that is a problem

Yes that mentality is very common with rabbis in shuls as well. Chase out the "undeseriables" who you know will then become non observant, to keep yourself and your smug old timers happy.

42

 Aug 17, 2017 at 10:10 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

1) קשוט עצמך תחילה
To read an Israeli criticizing American schools is a joke!
In Israeli Yeshivas a boy gets kicked out of Yeshiva if his father goes to work!

2) A few decades ago many Yeshivas were mixed with frum & not kids in the same class. The biggest upshot of it was it allowed the not frum to remain Jewish and even become frum.

You should bend down to your feet and ask Mechila Rabbi Blumenfield' The Mash; the man is a true 'Tzadik' of our generation, the man has saved with no exaggerations 1000's of American teenagers who fell through the cracks, and he still does.

43

 Aug 17, 2017 at 10:11 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #37  
answers Says:

Having very close family members as principals in local schools I will make the following observation:
When a boy or girl is out of a school for whatever reason, and a well intentioned rav or askan calls the principal and puts pressure on the principal to just try it, many times, they are doing a disservice to all.
Prinicpal: Do you know the child personally?
Askan: No, but it is a chashuve family.
Principal: Will you at least take achrayus to raise 25,000 dollars for an in house tutor so that I can do whatever necessary to make it work?
Askan: NO! the parenst are paying so much tuition already!
Principal: So in other words, you want me to take the child that

As I said in #1 there is two sides to every story.

44

 Aug 17, 2017 at 10:11 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Frish Says:

U b"h didnt have to hear of him cause ur probably a great kid
This " mash" is world renown he deals with the toughest of the tough and just gives & gives love love love he saved countless lives.
So u ignorant bum do ur research

Once you used the word "bum" the rest of your comment becomes meaningless.

45

 Aug 17, 2017 at 10:12 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Anonymous Says:

This happened to my daughter. She was in a well known school in Flatbush and was pushed into a special Ed program in another school. I was not given an opportunity to see if the program was appropriate for her instead I was lied to and bullied by people who honestly believe they are frum because they wear the frum uniform. The new school thought that their only job was to provide free rent to this special ed program and they were ill prepared to deal with a group of girls that were looked upon by other students as second class citizens. Suffice to say this devastated my daughter and we as a family are dealing with the long term repercussions. Let's just say she hates yiddishkeit because her frum role models in both schools let her down. I'm sure there are many parents who are facing this and their children's pain might not be visible to outsiders but are paralyzed and don't demand change because they are too busy picking up the pieces from misguided educators. Just like there are dysfunctional parents who don't be want to deal with reality there are many uneducated ill prepared educators who don't update their skills and come to their jobs with their own emotional baggage or just plain arrogance. Remember, there is a very strong emotional component to teaching, children are not empty pitchers that you just pour water into.

I feel for you.

46

 Aug 17, 2017 at 10:23 AM hernoor Says:

People can be ridiculously unthinking. To expect the school to cater to every single student to their every single need is ridiculous. And besides for that issue regarding whether schools are required to cater to every child a personalized education, which is a ridiculous expectation, people make their own choices. I know it's not a fashionable concept, but bechira is real. We can blame frum schools for making at least 40% of the student body miserable, but the bottom line is that people choose the path they want to walk on.

Public schools provide all kinds of help and their education system is not based on so much (extraneous) memorization, they don't demand as much from their students as frum schools and yet they have over enough students doing drugs.

47

 Aug 17, 2017 at 10:44 AM Anonymous Says:

"What I want to know is what was done with those “educators”? Was the principal that sent her away because of the gift and briefcase dismissed? Was the school closed? Such educators are not educators, they are murderers. Have the leaders of that community stood up and demanded changes in the ‘system’? Or are we just to sit back and perhaps shed a few tears and allow the system to cripple our children?"
Nothing was done with the "educators"! They will be allowed to continue in this path until we call them out by name and say, enough is enough -- lo zu haderech! I call out Refoel Bernstein of Mesivta Ohr Yisrael of Marine Park known as Zuckers. This yeshiva is a boot camp run by a slew of nasty people. They have thrown out many children -- even in the middle of the year, for reasons that are not good enough! No parent should place their child in this school for it needs to be closed down!

48

 Aug 17, 2017 at 10:55 AM chachom Says:

Naar Hoyisi V'gam Zokanti. When I was in high school,I was "written off" and allowed to do what I want because they could not throw me out due to outside influences. I am B H, I raised a beautiful family of 27 children and grandchildren.
When I see the teachers who "wrote me off", I show myself to let them know how wrong they were. They are close to going to the Olom Hoemes, and I am not moichel them, till they ask.

49

 Aug 17, 2017 at 10:56 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #20  
Anonymous Says:

There is no such a thing "there is no other side" In your home you are the Balebus
But every where else you always have to hear two sides.

generally thats true. But when it comes to yiddisha neshomos and throwing a girl out there is no other side.

50

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:03 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #33  
hernoor Says:

Do you realize that we lives in different times, in a different secular culture?! Do you realize that things that were unthinkable years ago is now accessed at the press of a button? Do you realize that kids ( and adults too) are impressionable by what they see and hear? When the world would be like twenty years ago regarding morality then you have a point, but this situation is incompatible. Many,many kids HAVE influenced others negatively!

Times are not sooo differnet. When my mom went to BY of willamsburg plenty of freinds got caught up with the hippy movement. At that time there was a movement by the young genreation to be wild and loose. In a certain way it was far worse than today. Of course we have the internet challange nowadays. But its not any worse than the hippies.

And that many kids the HAVE been influenced by others would in all likelihodd been influnced by society anyhow. We don't live in a cave and its always a challange. If not friends in school then someone else, a neighbor, a camp friend , the library etc... will influence them. There is no 100% protection and throwing kids out of school does not really shield them.

You are making excuses.

51

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:07 AM hernoor Says:

Reply to #30  
FBF37 Says:

I remember reading recently that a Rav said that Yiddeshkeit is a War. We lose some here and there. Its the price to pay to keep everything in order. When I read it I thought it was disgusting. Well you eloquently just said the same thing. We need to save "others" but it's OK to kick out others.

What needs to happen is if a child does not fit the mold there should be other options available!! These schools should not feel like nebach cases. It happens to be in the Boys Yeshivas there are a few like these (Waterbury and Eastontown to name a few). There are very very few options in the girls schools and that is a problem

The reason these kids are ( in most cases) kicked out is because they are a bad influence on others. It is their own behavior that is the cause for their problems. I understand that pointing fingers in all directions is easier, but schools do need to protect their students against negative influences in school, even if the negative influences happen to be their own students. Nobody is forcing anyone to brazenly flaunt halacha and school rules and be a bad influence on others - such behavior is of their own choosing and no one can cry when they suffer the consequences of their actions.

52

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:11 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #37  
answers Says:

Having very close family members as principals in local schools I will make the following observation:
When a boy or girl is out of a school for whatever reason, and a well intentioned rav or askan calls the principal and puts pressure on the principal to just try it, many times, they are doing a disservice to all.
Prinicpal: Do you know the child personally?
Askan: No, but it is a chashuve family.
Principal: Will you at least take achrayus to raise 25,000 dollars for an in house tutor so that I can do whatever necessary to make it work?
Askan: NO! the parenst are paying so much tuition already!
Principal: So in other words, you want me to take the child that

Why is it a disservice?

Askan: NO! the parenst are paying so much tuition already!
Principal: So in other words, you want me to take the child that ”

Yes take the child anyhow. Let him sit in school and flink classes. So what? Big deal. At least the child is in a comfortable accepting setting. There is more to a jewish school than education. if a child who needs tutroing sits thru class, spaces out and flinks every test but gains yiras shamiom and has people that care for him/ her that what counts. Why all this energy on can the student make it in class. top over therapizing everyone. I grew up with plenty of friends who never understood a word of what the rebbe said but we were all friends. As adults those "learning disabled" kids are now fine fathers. We have this thing that Oy vey the kid does not grasp the teacher or rebbe boom therapy and tutors and ADD meds. relax just let the kid ride thru school. Of course we should try, but once we tried our hardest OK nu so what.

53

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:12 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #37  
answers Says:

Having very close family members as principals in local schools I will make the following observation:
When a boy or girl is out of a school for whatever reason, and a well intentioned rav or askan calls the principal and puts pressure on the principal to just try it, many times, they are doing a disservice to all.
Prinicpal: Do you know the child personally?
Askan: No, but it is a chashuve family.
Principal: Will you at least take achrayus to raise 25,000 dollars for an in house tutor so that I can do whatever necessary to make it work?
Askan: NO! the parenst are paying so much tuition already!
Principal: So in other words, you want me to take the child that

Oh and by the way Malky parents were willing to pay 25K for a tutor

54

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:14 AM Ina Says:

Reply to #30  
FBF37 Says:

I remember reading recently that a Rav said that Yiddeshkeit is a War. We lose some here and there. Its the price to pay to keep everything in order. When I read it I thought it was disgusting. Well you eloquently just said the same thing. We need to save "others" but it's OK to kick out others.

What needs to happen is if a child does not fit the mold there should be other options available!! These schools should not feel like nebach cases. It happens to be in the Boys Yeshivas there are a few like these (Waterbury and Eastontown to name a few). There are very very few options in the girls schools and that is a problem

Today Waterbury and Eatontown are for boys who are not necessarily Shomer Shabbos. These schools will discourage a frum boy from attending. So, you see there are yeshivas for OTD boys out there, but there is nothing for great kids who are learning disabled. And, just about every family has at least one learning disabled child. The curriculum in our schools needs an overhaul.

55

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:14 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #46  
hernoor Says:

People can be ridiculously unthinking. To expect the school to cater to every single student to their every single need is ridiculous. And besides for that issue regarding whether schools are required to cater to every child a personalized education, which is a ridiculous expectation, people make their own choices. I know it's not a fashionable concept, but bechira is real. We can blame frum schools for making at least 40% of the student body miserable, but the bottom line is that people choose the path they want to walk on.

Public schools provide all kinds of help and their education system is not based on so much (extraneous) memorization, they don't demand as much from their students as frum schools and yet they have over enough students doing drugs.

I think the problems the schools are facing is a bit more complicated than you fail to mention. We are raising children who will become robots. We as a community don't deal with root cause which is a lack of self acceptance by children in the younger grades. Yes, parents have an obligation to do more but we all live in fear of keeping up with the Cohens (not just materially) so we walk the walk and talk the talk. As long as it looks good to others. However, we need more Rabbi YY Jacobson's to lead us to the way. Crack open the real secrets and the double lives that many frum people are living. Crack open the dirty little secrets of arrogance and kovod which is behind all this non self acceptance off all children in the lower grades. There's much more than meets the eye and that's what is not being addressed.

56

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:15 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #46  
hernoor Says:

People can be ridiculously unthinking. To expect the school to cater to every single student to their every single need is ridiculous. And besides for that issue regarding whether schools are required to cater to every child a personalized education, which is a ridiculous expectation, people make their own choices. I know it's not a fashionable concept, but bechira is real. We can blame frum schools for making at least 40% of the student body miserable, but the bottom line is that people choose the path they want to walk on.

Public schools provide all kinds of help and their education system is not based on so much (extraneous) memorization, they don't demand as much from their students as frum schools and yet they have over enough students doing drugs.

"People can be ridiculously unthinking. To expect the school to cater to every single student to their every single need is ridiculous."

So let the school not cater to every single student. Let the kid sit tru class without grasping the material. SO what? Big deal. Thats how we all grew up. If this is where the kid's social setting fit him/her then let it go.

57

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:18 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #47  
Anonymous Says:

"What I want to know is what was done with those “educators”? Was the principal that sent her away because of the gift and briefcase dismissed? Was the school closed? Such educators are not educators, they are murderers. Have the leaders of that community stood up and demanded changes in the ‘system’? Or are we just to sit back and perhaps shed a few tears and allow the system to cripple our children?"
Nothing was done with the "educators"! They will be allowed to continue in this path until we call them out by name and say, enough is enough -- lo zu haderech! I call out Refoel Bernstein of Mesivta Ohr Yisrael of Marine Park known as Zuckers. This yeshiva is a boot camp run by a slew of nasty people. They have thrown out many children -- even in the middle of the year, for reasons that are not good enough! No parent should place their child in this school for it needs to be closed down!

Well what do you expect? Es shtinked foon oyven. He's better off as a RY than a Univ of Penn lawyer. More kovod, more money, and the ability to play god the ultimate, ahem, high!

58

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:19 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Interesting how he could judge someone for murder by reading the claims of one side.

Let's play your game. The parents contributed to her troubles. Does that absolve the schools from responsibility? I dare to question your intelligence or your yichus if you are simply throwing all the responsibility to the parents. That is both dishonest and shameful. In reality, the chinuch system has accomplished plenty, and they are not acknowledged enough for it. But there are big problems with it, and the exclusion of talmidim and talmidos is one of those. Kids get rejected at an alarming pace, and they fall prey to lots of other forces. With those forces being greater than anything we knew in our history, we must do a whole lot more to protect each neshomoh. Schools are NOT doing it, in the name of all sorts of claims to fame that are not based on Torah value. So you can fault the parents all you want. But the schools remain guilty of murder.

59

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:20 AM Anonymous Says:

Chansie Tabak is not a person I would to have anything to do with the education of my daughter. Her personal life is a mess and some of her children are OTD. There is a lot to be desired from our educators and she is in the wrong business.

60

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:42 AM Bubbyl Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Interesting how he could judge someone for murder by reading the claims of one side.

Agreed!! As a long time educator, I take offense to the word "murdered". In every bais din both sides must be heard. There is more than one narrative in this sad case.

61

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:42 AM maxedout Says:

Reply to #14  
Anonymous Says:

This happened to my daughter. She was in a well known school in Flatbush and was pushed into a special Ed program in another school. I was not given an opportunity to see if the program was appropriate for her instead I was lied to and bullied by people who honestly believe they are frum because they wear the frum uniform. The new school thought that their only job was to provide free rent to this special ed program and they were ill prepared to deal with a group of girls that were looked upon by other students as second class citizens. Suffice to say this devastated my daughter and we as a family are dealing with the long term repercussions. Let's just say she hates yiddishkeit because her frum role models in both schools let her down. I'm sure there are many parents who are facing this and their children's pain might not be visible to outsiders but are paralyzed and don't demand change because they are too busy picking up the pieces from misguided educators. Just like there are dysfunctional parents who don't be want to deal with reality there are many uneducated ill prepared educators who don't update their skills and come to their jobs with their own emotional baggage or just plain arrogance. Remember, there is a very strong emotional component to teaching, children are not empty pitchers that you just pour water into.

Mod, is there any way this person and I can make contact? I was thinking of a possible match but would like to discuss in private? thanks

62

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:44 AM Ina Says:

Reply to #51  
hernoor Says:

The reason these kids are ( in most cases) kicked out is because they are a bad influence on others. It is their own behavior that is the cause for their problems. I understand that pointing fingers in all directions is easier, but schools do need to protect their students against negative influences in school, even if the negative influences happen to be their own students. Nobody is forcing anyone to brazenly flaunt halacha and school rules and be a bad influence on others - such behavior is of their own choosing and no one can cry when they suffer the consequences of their actions.

Do not ignore the issue at hand. Do not mix apples and oranges. Our children are not being accepted into high school because of learning disabilities. Most families struggle with children who have learning disabilities. We cannot as a community continue to fail children who will be stand up citizens if they would only be allowed to get through school!

63

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:44 AM hernoor Says:

Reply to #56  
Anonymous Says:

"People can be ridiculously unthinking. To expect the school to cater to every single student to their every single need is ridiculous."

So let the school not cater to every single student. Let the kid sit tru class without grasping the material. SO what? Big deal. Thats how we all grew up. If this is where the kid's social setting fit him/her then let it go.

I agree with you. Kids do not need to know 3/4 of what they are being taught in school. I think kids should be able to stay in school despite flunking tests as long as they try their ( and not take advantage of such a system that tolerates flunked tests.) I also think that schools should offer classes in creative type of studies like music and dance so that students who are not great at memorization should thrive in the area they are good at( Memorization rather than education is the preferred teaching methods in frum schools. And the only knowledge that sticks is those things that we use in real life which is like 25% of what is learnt in school).

In the case we are discussing in which the high school principal who threw Malky out of school is being called a murderer, that principal took her in with the knowledge that she has learning disabilities! She obviously did not throw her out because of it! Malky had learning disabilities in elementary too, nobody threw her out because of it. The parents asking the high school principal to expel Malky did not do so because of her test marks. I don't know my kids classmates test marks, do you?

The point is that people are screaming at the schools and principals because they feel Malky was thrown out because of her grades. Sorry, I'm not buying that. If you analyze the story and do some reasearch you can see it was not the case. Her grades and even her lwlearning disabilities was not the cause of her being expelled from school.

64

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:44 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
ah yid Says:

An educator wrote this? .I wish people will stop blaming the schools I have a number of children who didn't pass the farhers to get into the mesivtas that their friends went to. I know the feeling of trying to get into a level 2 yeshiva..I know the feeling to have children be out of yeshiva at age 15. However I'm a rebbi in an elementary yeshiva so I get to see the other side of the story. First of all the first upgrade must be with teacher training. To be a rov ,a dayan, a sofer, schochet etc you need shimush. - hands on training and a mentor. The most a rebbi or morah does today is go to year of teacher classes or some workshops. Second every parent must go to parenting classes. As a rebbi I see it year after year parents who push their children too much. If there is a social issue they often blame everyone else besides the source of the problem .and to go for help is a small fortune. Parents are over whelmed.by many pressures especially financial and if there is a problem they push it off until its a big problem. The yeshivas have to have resource rooms to help struggling students. Often the 10-15 minutes even once a week is enough to bring many students up to par.

Yes. An educator wrote this. He is one of a select few that gives his heart and soul to each individual talmid.

Yeshivos need a lot more than they have, money, resources, partnering parents, respect, and dedicated teachers who love their talmidim.

Parents need plenty, too, and mandatory parenting training/classes is a good idea, though I am skeptical that there could be any way of enforcing this.

Meanwhile, the parents and yeshivos continue to waste their time playing volleyball, shifting blame back and forth instead of accepting responsibility to fix what they can.

65

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:48 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #8  
Anonymous Says:

You bring up many valid pointers . But the issue is not whether Malky got a proper education or not . The point is even if a school does not have a resource room and it's rabbeim or teachers are not well trained and the parents are not involved with their children nevertheless you let the kid stay in school . That's even if the child spaces out during every class and the school is ill equipped to educate the child you still keep him or her in school . If you care you can try to place the child in another school ( even that must be done with caution as the child may have a social life already in your school and that child may resent being shtipped into a second tier school away from her friends ) However the main point is you don't throw a child out of school .

It is one thing to refuse to admit an applicant because of the belief that they are a poor match for the school. It is quite another to have admitted a student, and then throwing them out. These expulsions are "dinei nefashos", and, as per the Chazon Ish ZT"L, require a psak by a beis din of 23. At the very least, there needs to be consultation with outsiders who have no bias to the school to help decide to take such a drastic step. Sadly, that nearly ever happens.

66

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:52 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
retired educator Says:

Your post pinpoints the problem. We can't just blame the schools... there are many factors in a child's downfall, some more significant than others.

From what I read and heard, Malky was lucky in that she had caring parents who fought for her. But who was guiding THEM? I get the impression they were struggling on their own - every school needs an independent parent/student advocate, not hired by the school but appointed by Torah U'Mesorah and paid by the government.Not a guidance counselor but someone who is familiar with all legal and emotional aspects of exclusion.

I have to say, the biggest culprits here are the "friends" who sucked her into this underworld. I had to face the fact my child was drawn to some borderline unsavory people and I dealt with it. I nipped it in the bud because things hadn't progressed very far.

There needs to be a "Malky's Contract" whereby our schools accept their responsibilities as educators and prepare for all eventualities.i fought for my students but there was no backing from the schools. I would like to become involved in such a project.

Finally ... I agree with the Mash - how can these "educators" sleep? To Ah Yid - your students are lucky.

Biggest culprits "friends"? You have placed the cart before the horse. Who pushed her out the door and into the welcoming arms of the friends?

As for your child, your nipping in the bud was successful because you welcomed her back into the fold of your family and its heritage. As long as you managed that to be more appealing to her, you assisted and guided her to make the right choices. But had you only been restrictive, as would be with punishing, banning, etc., that child would be elsewhere. Yasher Koach to you for being the real parent.

67

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:54 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #51  
hernoor Says:

The reason these kids are ( in most cases) kicked out is because they are a bad influence on others. It is their own behavior that is the cause for their problems. I understand that pointing fingers in all directions is easier, but schools do need to protect their students against negative influences in school, even if the negative influences happen to be their own students. Nobody is forcing anyone to brazenly flaunt halacha and school rules and be a bad influence on others - such behavior is of their own choosing and no one can cry when they suffer the consequences of their actions.

" but schools do need to protect their students against negative influences in school"

I disagree unless its real extreme. Big deal so schools have kids more "bumy" and negative influence on others. Years ago all schools had such kids and we all thrived. There were lenty hippies in my moms BY of willamsburg class together ith chasidisha reba's kids. Of course there are extreme instances but generally you should not be allowed to throw out children even if they are a bad influence. Parents should teach thier kids how to deal with negative influences.

68

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:57 AM Ina Says:

Reply to #63  
hernoor Says:

I agree with you. Kids do not need to know 3/4 of what they are being taught in school. I think kids should be able to stay in school despite flunking tests as long as they try their ( and not take advantage of such a system that tolerates flunked tests.) I also think that schools should offer classes in creative type of studies like music and dance so that students who are not great at memorization should thrive in the area they are good at( Memorization rather than education is the preferred teaching methods in frum schools. And the only knowledge that sticks is those things that we use in real life which is like 25% of what is learnt in school).

In the case we are discussing in which the high school principal who threw Malky out of school is being called a murderer, that principal took her in with the knowledge that she has learning disabilities! She obviously did not throw her out because of it! Malky had learning disabilities in elementary too, nobody threw her out because of it. The parents asking the high school principal to expel Malky did not do so because of her test marks. I don't know my kids classmates test marks, do you?

The point is that people are screaming at the schools and principals because they feel Malky was thrown out because of her grades. Sorry, I'm not buying that. If you analyze the story and do some reasearch you can see it was not the case. Her grades and even her lwlearning disabilities was not the cause of her being expelled from school.

There might be a little more to this story than what the public is being told. Could be... However, it might also be that the reason so many of us are outraged is because this is happening to so many of us, in our community each year at the hands of our schools. You should never know how dark your life will become when your are wrangling with the thugs in these schools.

69

 Aug 17, 2017 at 11:58 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #13  
hernoor Says:

STOP BLAMING THE SCHOOLS! STOP BLAMING THE PRINCIPAL! Enough! I am very critical of schools' education and I feel they must incorporate more creative and intellectual type of learning as opposed to all this memorization they keep on pushing. Nevertheless, it is stupid to blame the schools every time a child gets thrown out. In a previous post I wrote why I felt the principal had a right to do what she did. Then I heard Mr. Klein's speach and I felt I had judged Malky unfairly and asked the parents to be moichel me for saying bad things about her. But after more research, I now understand the principal . In fact, the school who threw her out had accepted her despite of her learning disabilities, do you think they would throw her out because of it? The parents too did not ask the school to throw her out because of the marks. It is incredibly naive to think so. The principal had every right to do what she did to protect other students in the school . If anyone is being murdered, it is the poor principal who simply wanted to protect her other students and had every right to do so.

You are back again, defending the schools as being sanctimonious. Well, you are dreadfully wrong. Let's assume that the expulsion on day one was due to reports of behavioral issues. Once the child was accepted, she has become the responsibility of the school. Did they lead the way, or even participate in an alternative placement? Did they factor the dignity/shame of the girl in the process? What is it that you know about "protecting other students"? Are you aware that over 90% of the time that this excuse is made, it is factually inaccurate? The principal acted on pressure from other parents, and that should never, ever be allowed in any yeshiva. That is murder.

Did anyone notice that this principal and school did not go public with a denial after the Klein video went viral? Guess why, besides the negative publicity?

70

 Aug 17, 2017 at 12:06 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #24  
Anonymous Says:

I think many commenters are overthinking all this . They claim schools don't hire qualified enough teachers and rabboem and they are ill equipped etc ..

I think the opposite is true . We have become crazy about therapy and individual attention etc . Then if we can't provide it, schools get all nervous and have to place kids on special ed or other schools ... Just let the kid live . Yes let her go thru classes flunking . Life will go on . Don't worry so much about her perfect therapy and ADD . As long as she has a social life just chill . It's true you should try to help her . But if it doesn't work nu so what . There are plenty of great moms with reading disabilities . As long as the kid is sociable relax .

As a side note , anyone who says rabbiem are not qualified should look. at the past . Rabbiem use to be nervous wreck holocaust survivors who just smacked the kids all day . And it was not better in Europe . A rebbe job has historically been a shleper job . Nowadays rabbiem get paid very nicely all considering that it's a semi part time job . And they are far more qualified . However I think we have gone to the other extreme where everything has to be so perfect and analyzed and therapzed in chinuch.

Your points are mostly good. There may be overutilization of mental health services in schools. Maybe. But how many times do rebbeim and teachers (not to exclude menahlim/os) force a parent to put their kid on medication as a requirement to allow that kid back into a classroom? That is malpractice.

Rebbeim are not getting paid well, and their jobs are not part time. Are they really more qualified?

71

 Aug 17, 2017 at 12:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #37  
answers Says:

Having very close family members as principals in local schools I will make the following observation:
When a boy or girl is out of a school for whatever reason, and a well intentioned rav or askan calls the principal and puts pressure on the principal to just try it, many times, they are doing a disservice to all.
Prinicpal: Do you know the child personally?
Askan: No, but it is a chashuve family.
Principal: Will you at least take achrayus to raise 25,000 dollars for an in house tutor so that I can do whatever necessary to make it work?
Askan: NO! the parenst are paying so much tuition already!
Principal: So in other words, you want me to take the child that

So you have fallen into the trap that it is all money. Let's put your greed to the side.

The Askan who calls the principal is not doing a disservice, and it shameful to make such an accusation. Whether the kid gets back into the school becomes a match of wits and endurance between the Askan and the principal. As much as you point out that the Askan does not know the child, I propose that the principal doesn't either.

Quote a story, I believe is told of Rav Shach ZT"L, where a menahel asked about throwing a bochur out of yeshiva. After presenting what he thought was strong case, Rav Shach asked the following questions the menahel could not answer:
What is the boy's mother's name? Does he have both parents? How many siblings are there in the home? What is the occupation of the parent(s)? Unless a principal knows the talmid, he has no right to "pasken" that the child should be in the streets.

No, not a disservice. Just a challenge to place a burden of proof on the principal that requires a response.

72

 Aug 17, 2017 at 12:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #51  
hernoor Says:

The reason these kids are ( in most cases) kicked out is because they are a bad influence on others. It is their own behavior that is the cause for their problems. I understand that pointing fingers in all directions is easier, but schools do need to protect their students against negative influences in school, even if the negative influences happen to be their own students. Nobody is forcing anyone to brazenly flaunt halacha and school rules and be a bad influence on others - such behavior is of their own choosing and no one can cry when they suffer the consequences of their actions.

You're still drinking the kool-aid. What bad influence? This is rarely true, and the excuse sounds good but 90% dishonest.

As for brazenly flaunting halacha and school rules,let's review a מאמר חז"ל that is relevant here.

אין אדם חוטא אלא אם כן נכנס בו רוח שטות.

These behavioral "rule violations" are a cry for help. The Mash hears the cry for help. You silence them. The Mash has thousands of people doing mitzvos and maasim tovim today to his credit. What's your claim?

73

 Aug 17, 2017 at 12:46 PM hernoor Says:

Reply to #62  
Ina Says:

Do not ignore the issue at hand. Do not mix apples and oranges. Our children are not being accepted into high school because of learning disabilities. Most families struggle with children who have learning disabilities. We cannot as a community continue to fail children who will be stand up citizens if they would only be allowed to get through school!

It is not I that is mixing apples and oranges. The story is about a kid who was NOT thrown out of elementary despite her learning disabilities. She was ACCEPTED to a high school DESPITE her learning disabilities, obviously the principal did NOT throw her out because of it. I promise you that the parents of her classmates asking for the girl to be thrown out were not doing so because they cared about her marks. Do you care about the grades of you children's classmates? Do you think that the parents ganged up together to pressure the principal to expel Malky because of her grades? Sorry, I'm not buying that!

Of course, a separate issue is those with learning disabilities having a hard time getting accepted by high schools. Also not so "chusheva" families have a hard time getting their kids to be accepted by mosdes. That is indeed terrible. I think a lot could be changed by the fact that schools AND parents AND students stop being so obsessed over which schools are on a " higher level" and more "chushev". They should simply care about the overall development of the students' maturity and middos and should also concentrate on kids developing their talents and intellectual capilities, not only stretching the area in the brain that enables memorization. However, going in to high school, a kid needs to be able to do the bare minimum .Students can flunk a history test and it won't have an impact on their lives but we cannot expect students entering high school but still need help with the basics of who reading, writing and comprehension skills are not obligated to accept these students if they don't have the capacity to help them.

74

 Aug 17, 2017 at 01:04 PM Happy22 Says:

Lchvod R" Mosh.
Though you do do great thing for klal yisroel you should get the facts straight and know there is another side to the story. Even from your letter the facts are mixed up. she was never thrown out of the 3rd school. if you listened to her fathers interview you will hear him say she did not want to go back because she felt they accepted her because they needed girls ( which was not true) and wanted to be with her friends so she went to a principal and tried to get into a different school even though she was doing well and accepted by the class. He had great respect for that principal.
Also in the mishpacha article it says straight out that she was challenging authority and breaking rules. it wasn't just the briefcase. before that principal is condemned maybe we should hear her side of the story.
Though for Malky's honor I think nothing more should be made public.

75

 Aug 17, 2017 at 01:10 PM hernoor Says:

Reply to #69  
Anonymous Says:

You are back again, defending the schools as being sanctimonious. Well, you are dreadfully wrong. Let's assume that the expulsion on day one was due to reports of behavioral issues. Once the child was accepted, she has become the responsibility of the school. Did they lead the way, or even participate in an alternative placement? Did they factor the dignity/shame of the girl in the process? What is it that you know about "protecting other students"? Are you aware that over 90% of the time that this excuse is made, it is factually inaccurate? The principal acted on pressure from other parents, and that should never, ever be allowed in any yeshiva. That is murder.

Did anyone notice that this principal and school did not go public with a denial after the Klein video went viral? Guess why, besides the negative publicity?

Schools have a responsibility to ALL their students. If one is influencing other students nin a negative way, it is the school's responsibility to remove the bad influence.

76

 Aug 17, 2017 at 01:25 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #70  
Anonymous Says:

Your points are mostly good. There may be overutilization of mental health services in schools. Maybe. But how many times do rebbeim and teachers (not to exclude menahlim/os) force a parent to put their kid on medication as a requirement to allow that kid back into a classroom? That is malpractice.

Rebbeim are not getting paid well, and their jobs are not part time. Are they really more qualified?

Rebbeim are not getting paid well?

Huh. Did you count the per hour pay for a rebbe who earns 50k a year vs an accountant earning 100K?

and their jobs are not part time?

Aren't they off after 2/3 every day, yomim tovim and 10 weeks in the summer? Yes they have to work sundays and mark tests but still.

Yes rebbaim today are far more qualified then Holocuast survior rabbiem. Most today think things thru, use innovation and get the kids involved. they are not perfect but they realize its a skill. The rabbeim 30 years ago were simply holocaust survivors who needed a parnasa so they baceme a rebbe with no skills.

77

 Aug 17, 2017 at 01:35 PM hernoor Says:

I don't understand why everyone is hanging up against the principal who threw a young lady who made her own decisions and have no issue with the

78

 Aug 17, 2017 at 01:48 PM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #54  
Ina Says:

Today Waterbury and Eatontown are for boys who are not necessarily Shomer Shabbos. These schools will discourage a frum boy from attending. So, you see there are yeshivas for OTD boys out there, but there is nothing for great kids who are learning disabled. And, just about every family has at least one learning disabled child. The curriculum in our schools needs an overhaul.

There are schools for learning disabled. Cahal in the Five Towns and Ichud in Brooklyn are fantastic places of learning. Sometimes the problem is the parents refuse to send their kids to such programs since they are scared of the kids shidduchim when they are older. That is another story for another time.

79

 Aug 17, 2017 at 02:03 PM hernoor Says:

I don't understand why so many people have a problem with the high school principal expelling a student to protect other students from negative influence.

Everyone seems to miss that the biggest contributing problem to this sad story is not the fact that she was thrown out, but the fact that Malky became severely depressed because she felt like a failure every moment of her life. This feeling of failure caused her to make bad choices in life. Had she felt successful in areas she was good at in her formative years, the outcome of this story could have been very different. Everyone needs to feel they are good at something, Malky, and many others like her, felt they were good at nothing.

That is why I feel that schools should teach creative subjects that will enable girls who are failing or not so good in other areas in school to feel good about themselves so they can make good choices throughout life..

80

 Aug 17, 2017 at 02:05 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #73  
hernoor Says:

It is not I that is mixing apples and oranges. The story is about a kid who was NOT thrown out of elementary despite her learning disabilities. She was ACCEPTED to a high school DESPITE her learning disabilities, obviously the principal did NOT throw her out because of it. I promise you that the parents of her classmates asking for the girl to be thrown out were not doing so because they cared about her marks. Do you care about the grades of you children's classmates? Do you think that the parents ganged up together to pressure the principal to expel Malky because of her grades? Sorry, I'm not buying that!

Of course, a separate issue is those with learning disabilities having a hard time getting accepted by high schools. Also not so "chusheva" families have a hard time getting their kids to be accepted by mosdes. That is indeed terrible. I think a lot could be changed by the fact that schools AND parents AND students stop being so obsessed over which schools are on a " higher level" and more "chushev". They should simply care about the overall development of the students' maturity and middos and should also concentrate on kids developing their talents and intellectual capilities, not only stretching the area in the brain that enables memorization. However, going in to high school, a kid needs to be able to do the bare minimum .Students can flunk a history test and it won't have an impact on their lives but we cannot expect students entering high school but still need help with the basics of who reading, writing and comprehension skills are not obligated to accept these students if they don't have the capacity to help them.

"I promise you that the parents of her classmates asking for the girl to be thrown out were not doing so because they cared about her marks."

And, I am most certain that these so called parents who called the school are a mere fabrication of the principal. In fact, Judge Freier herself investigated this and has written that there was no relative who notified the school about, "what goes on in the Klein household". The schools can be incredible liars. Wake up!

81

 Aug 17, 2017 at 02:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #75  
hernoor Says:

Schools have a responsibility to ALL their students. If one is influencing other students nin a negative way, it is the school's responsibility to remove the bad influence.

90% of the time, the kid is NOT a bad influence. It is the school's responsibility to prove that allegation. But they have no one to answer to, and simply use that line to be rid of the kid. It's shameful. I have zero interest in their excuses.

82

 Aug 17, 2017 at 02:28 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #76  
Anonymous Says:

Rebbeim are not getting paid well?

Huh. Did you count the per hour pay for a rebbe who earns 50k a year vs an accountant earning 100K?

and their jobs are not part time?

Aren't they off after 2/3 every day, yomim tovim and 10 weeks in the summer? Yes they have to work sundays and mark tests but still.

Yes rebbaim today are far more qualified then Holocuast survior rabbiem. Most today think things thru, use innovation and get the kids involved. they are not perfect but they realize its a skill. The rabbeim 30 years ago were simply holocaust survivors who needed a parnasa so they baceme a rebbe with no skills.

Most in the NY region are underpaid, seriously. It is arguable that they do not qualify for higher pay. It is a vicious cycle, but the reality is poor pay, if they get their checks altogether and on time.

If any rebbe is worth the salary, the classroom time is the shortest part of his job. There is plenty of other faculty time, class preparation time, marking tests, maintaining contact with the kids and parents outside of the class. Yomim Tovim does not really qualify as time off. Most mechanchim I know work through the summer, albeit at another location. Many engage in heavily draining supplemental activity such as tutoring for the additional income that is critical for them. No, they drive yeshivishe cars for the most part, and they generally exist without luxuries that the average frum family takes for granted.

I am not taking a side, but am simply unwilling to tolerate a point that has its foundation on fiction.

83

 Aug 17, 2017 at 02:30 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #77  
hernoor Says:

I don't understand why everyone is hanging up against the principal who threw a young lady who made her own decisions and have no issue with the

You still don't get it. There is enough responsibility to spread around. Parents have some, kids have some, and the yeshivos/schools and their menahalim have some. Your obsession with giving yeshivos a pass is pathological, and plainly untrue.

84

 Aug 17, 2017 at 02:43 PM BLONDI Says:

we need to duplicate him!!! and/or find a female version to defend the girls. happens to be that usually the sensitive types are not so academically strong...so be more aware of their feelings. i feel for the kids and parents' heartache...almost no compassion for the schools. let the schools learn how to deal with the guilt..

85

 Aug 17, 2017 at 03:14 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #79  
hernoor Says:

I don't understand why so many people have a problem with the high school principal expelling a student to protect other students from negative influence.

Everyone seems to miss that the biggest contributing problem to this sad story is not the fact that she was thrown out, but the fact that Malky became severely depressed because she felt like a failure every moment of her life. This feeling of failure caused her to make bad choices in life. Had she felt successful in areas she was good at in her formative years, the outcome of this story could have been very different. Everyone needs to feel they are good at something, Malky, and many others like her, felt they were good at nothing.

That is why I feel that schools should teach creative subjects that will enable girls who are failing or not so good in other areas in school to feel good about themselves so they can make good choices throughout life..

Your kool-aid must be spiked. There may be good reason to alter curriculum to include more creative subjects than just the current academic, memory heavy subjects. But you have seriously missed the point, once again. A student can achieve failing grades on tests, but the relationship with the rebbe or teacher can still be emotionally healthy and caring. I had a classmate who was seriously limited. Midos were exemplary, and the entire faculty treated that person like a mentch, glorifying the terrific midos. That student had a huge group of friends, and moved on to marry and raise a beautiful family, gainfully employed to boot. There were no taught subjects on art, creativity, or such. Just teachers that cared, and recognized true dignity and valor.

If mechanchim display poor midos, of shaming, rejecting, etc., the best and most creative classes will not keep the kids mainstream in the community. The rebelliousness we are watching is not because of class material. It is solidly based on the lack of welcome and human dignity by the adults (mostly mechanchim, but parents, too).

יהי כבוד תלמידך חביב עליו כשלך. This is a Mishna in Pirkei Avos. Did anyone white it out?

86

 Aug 17, 2017 at 03:25 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #85  
Anonymous Says:

Your kool-aid must be spiked. There may be good reason to alter curriculum to include more creative subjects than just the current academic, memory heavy subjects. But you have seriously missed the point, once again. A student can achieve failing grades on tests, but the relationship with the rebbe or teacher can still be emotionally healthy and caring. I had a classmate who was seriously limited. Midos were exemplary, and the entire faculty treated that person like a mentch, glorifying the terrific midos. That student had a huge group of friends, and moved on to marry and raise a beautiful family, gainfully employed to boot. There were no taught subjects on art, creativity, or such. Just teachers that cared, and recognized true dignity and valor.

If mechanchim display poor midos, of shaming, rejecting, etc., the best and most creative classes will not keep the kids mainstream in the community. The rebelliousness we are watching is not because of class material. It is solidly based on the lack of welcome and human dignity by the adults (mostly mechanchim, but parents, too).

יהי כבוד תלמידך חביב עליו כשלך. This is a Mishna in Pirkei Avos. Did anyone white it out?

The public decries the current situation of our youth by placing blame on the internet. I place blame directly on the crazy schools. Were the schools to be enjoyable and nurturing, our children would not be able to get enough of what our religion has to offer.

87

 Aug 17, 2017 at 04:31 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #78  
FBF37 Says:

There are schools for learning disabled. Cahal in the Five Towns and Ichud in Brooklyn are fantastic places of learning. Sometimes the problem is the parents refuse to send their kids to such programs since they are scared of the kids shidduchim when they are older. That is another story for another time.

Yeah but there are no schools for learnng disabled who have normal social skills. Malky had normal social skills and was on par in terms of street smart. Furthermore, many kids especally by the time they reach High school if they are treet smart like Malky don't want to be placed in a special ed school. Its embarsssing and degrading to them as all their friends are in normal schools. So a special learing disabled school is not the answer always.

88

 Aug 17, 2017 at 04:42 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #82  
Anonymous Says:

Most in the NY region are underpaid, seriously. It is arguable that they do not qualify for higher pay. It is a vicious cycle, but the reality is poor pay, if they get their checks altogether and on time.

If any rebbe is worth the salary, the classroom time is the shortest part of his job. There is plenty of other faculty time, class preparation time, marking tests, maintaining contact with the kids and parents outside of the class. Yomim Tovim does not really qualify as time off. Most mechanchim I know work through the summer, albeit at another location. Many engage in heavily draining supplemental activity such as tutoring for the additional income that is critical for them. No, they drive yeshivishe cars for the most part, and they generally exist without luxuries that the average frum family takes for granted.

I am not taking a side, but am simply unwilling to tolerate a point that has its foundation on fiction.

Rabbeim in Brooklyn underpaid? So not true. lets do the math

Avg rebbe salary in Brooklyn 50,000
On avreage 2 kids get free tuiton at the school they are a rebbe at thats 15k
Chanuka and purim gifts 25 kids average 50 at least per gift thats 2k
Before pesach and sukkos free grociers via moyadim lsimcha thats another 3k

So we are at least 70k for whats for sure a 10 month job. What they earn in the summer is separate. But they are earning 70K for 10 months. Why doesn't yommin tovim count? But OK lets say its equal to holidays. Also its structured in a away that legally they can still earn many government programs. Thats not part of the cheshbon.

I don't buy that the hours even with class prep , PTA's , marking tests, calling parents etc... add up to your 60 hour a week work week that an accountant puts in earning on average 100k a year. Yes a rebbe job maybe 40 hours a week but in todays society 40 hour's a week is part time. And its only 10 months a year.

And the schools improved. Rabbeim today don't get paid late. Schools pay on time these days.

Sorry do your math.

89

 Aug 17, 2017 at 04:45 PM hernoor Says:

Reply to #85  
Anonymous Says:

Your kool-aid must be spiked. There may be good reason to alter curriculum to include more creative subjects than just the current academic, memory heavy subjects. But you have seriously missed the point, once again. A student can achieve failing grades on tests, but the relationship with the rebbe or teacher can still be emotionally healthy and caring. I had a classmate who was seriously limited. Midos were exemplary, and the entire faculty treated that person like a mentch, glorifying the terrific midos. That student had a huge group of friends, and moved on to marry and raise a beautiful family, gainfully employed to boot. There were no taught subjects on art, creativity, or such. Just teachers that cared, and recognized true dignity and valor.

If mechanchim display poor midos, of shaming, rejecting, etc., the best and most creative classes will not keep the kids mainstream in the community. The rebelliousness we are watching is not because of class material. It is solidly based on the lack of welcome and human dignity by the adults (mostly mechanchim, but parents, too).

יהי כבוד תלמידך חביב עליו כשלך. This is a Mishna in Pirkei Avos. Did anyone white it out?

First of all, no need to be condescending. You are writing about having good middos after all.. Secondly, my kids have gone through the chinuch system and I have yet to meet a cruel teacher , rebbe or principal. I cannot say all were bright, some weren't the smartest , certainly many were non-inspirational as teachers ( according to my kids everyone fell asleep or talked during their class) Some teachers were hired because they were "chushev" or got good marks in school as studentsso they were considered smart. Never mind that you need to have more than just getting good marks and having chein likeable as a student or being "chushev " . These things don't make a good teacher, nor an intelligent person, but it doesn't make them cruel either. That Malky's teacher said she belongs in firstvgrade in front of the entire class is questionable, but it doesn't make all teachers and principals that Malky had throughout the years mean and cruel without any good kiddos.

In today's day and age, it is much more often the case were a student is mean and doesn't listen to authority. I have heard some kids talk to adults and I am horrified. Bringing your friend as an example improves my point that you need good middos to be accepted and respected by mechanchim. You cannot be a monster , disregard authority, be chutzpahdik, have an attitude and be full of anger and hate and expect to be loved and accepted by mechanchim. For that you need a "kids at risk" insitution.

90

 Aug 17, 2017 at 05:59 PM FBF37 Says:

Reply to #87  
Anonymous Says:

Yeah but there are no schools for learnng disabled who have normal social skills. Malky had normal social skills and was on par in terms of street smart. Furthermore, many kids especally by the time they reach High school if they are treet smart like Malky don't want to be placed in a special ed school. Its embarsssing and degrading to them as all their friends are in normal schools. So a special learing disabled school is not the answer always.

If you do your homework these two schools that I mentioned are IN mainstream schools!!! For certain subjects they are pulled out. Over the course of the years they are then mainstreamed into regular classes for all the subjects when they are ready.

91

 Aug 17, 2017 at 07:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #89  
hernoor Says:

First of all, no need to be condescending. You are writing about having good middos after all.. Secondly, my kids have gone through the chinuch system and I have yet to meet a cruel teacher , rebbe or principal. I cannot say all were bright, some weren't the smartest , certainly many were non-inspirational as teachers ( according to my kids everyone fell asleep or talked during their class) Some teachers were hired because they were "chushev" or got good marks in school as studentsso they were considered smart. Never mind that you need to have more than just getting good marks and having chein likeable as a student or being "chushev " . These things don't make a good teacher, nor an intelligent person, but it doesn't make them cruel either. That Malky's teacher said she belongs in firstvgrade in front of the entire class is questionable, but it doesn't make all teachers and principals that Malky had throughout the years mean and cruel without any good kiddos.

In today's day and age, it is much more often the case were a student is mean and doesn't listen to authority. I have heard some kids talk to adults and I am horrified. Bringing your friend as an example improves my point that you need good middos to be accepted and respected by mechanchim. You cannot be a monster , disregard authority, be chutzpahdik, have an attitude and be full of anger and hate and expect to be loved and accepted by mechanchim. For that you need a "kids at risk" insitution.

I am challenging you about being blinded regarding our yeshivos. I play fair. Our chinuch system has accomplished much, and has many successes. Yet, the problems are still there. I do not have an issue with recognizing that there is good and bad everywhere. One may choose where to focus. But to proclaim that that there is nothing sick with chinuch is irresponsible and blatantly false.

As for your experience of meeting up with 100% angelic rebbes, moros, and principals, that's wonderful. But it is not only not universal, but the exception. Perfection is not found among humans, and chinuch will also never be honest if it were to boast about that. Here's the trouble. The negative experiences are not rare. There is complexity to the situation. But the victim is innocent, young, and hurting. Instead of working with the child, the system works against him/her. That is outrageous. Yes, the kid displayed chutzpah. No, that's not okay. But that is chinuch. Dealing with the kid that speaks improperly to the rebbe.

Embarrassing a student is a capital crime. No teacher should ever be given a pass on that. But these incidents are dismissed.

To Be Continued

92

 Aug 17, 2017 at 07:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #89  
hernoor Says:

First of all, no need to be condescending. You are writing about having good middos after all.. Secondly, my kids have gone through the chinuch system and I have yet to meet a cruel teacher , rebbe or principal. I cannot say all were bright, some weren't the smartest , certainly many were non-inspirational as teachers ( according to my kids everyone fell asleep or talked during their class) Some teachers were hired because they were "chushev" or got good marks in school as studentsso they were considered smart. Never mind that you need to have more than just getting good marks and having chein likeable as a student or being "chushev " . These things don't make a good teacher, nor an intelligent person, but it doesn't make them cruel either. That Malky's teacher said she belongs in firstvgrade in front of the entire class is questionable, but it doesn't make all teachers and principals that Malky had throughout the years mean and cruel without any good kiddos.

In today's day and age, it is much more often the case were a student is mean and doesn't listen to authority. I have heard some kids talk to adults and I am horrified. Bringing your friend as an example improves my point that you need good middos to be accepted and respected by mechanchim. You cannot be a monster , disregard authority, be chutzpahdik, have an attitude and be full of anger and hate and expect to be loved and accepted by mechanchim. For that you need a "kids at risk" insitution.

Continued

Have you ever witnessed a rebbe or teacher apologizing to a student when they punished him/her unfairly or shamed them? If you did, you should have wondered whether to say the brocho שהחיינו. It is quite exceptional and incredibly brave when this occurs.

Chutzpah is more rampant today. There are more issues with authority than ever before in our history. Chazal tell us בעיקבתא דמשיחא -- חוצפה יסגי. No, it's not nice. But it is fact. Don't fight it, deal with it. Every rebelling child can be welcomed back into the Klal. We sinned continuously in the מדבר. HKB"H protected us with ענני הכבוד and fed us מן, without a single interruption. If we modeled behavior better for kids, they would emulate that. Our disciplinary attitudes, focused on control, do not educate, and provoke kids to be defensive, rebellious, and to escape.

We're talking about kids. Yes, we need to embrace them when they are raging, yelling at us, disregarding authority. That's our job as parents. Mechanchim at all levels are surrogate parents while the children are in their domain. Awesome responsibility, but that's their job. Kids do not need to qualify to be accepted and loved.

93

 Aug 17, 2017 at 10:14 PM BLONDI Says:

the other reason for her being thrown out of school was because she ate in the pizza shop instead of taking it to go..for all practical reasons, when was the last time anyone had a good slice of cold pizza? and who snitched on her?

94

 Aug 17, 2017 at 10:21 PM schwartzi Says:

Reply to #7  
speech48 Says:

anyone who needs to hear the other side...
pls go ask mechilla at the graves of the lost humble neshamas...
we as a klal better open our hearts and deal with this machla...

speech 48, you say " go ask mechila from the humble neshomas" lol ya, lol lol, the :educators" and menahlim,and administrators,and principals, will go running, to ask mechila. Are you kidding? to those yeshiva mafia types,they couldn't care less how many of these "expendable" types go off the derech,or die. To them its ( yeshiva) business as usual. So, what if over 100 died last year from overdose,/suicides, what does that come out to be ,1% of the total student body? big deal, like in any business there is a certain percent of loss attributed to theft,and or mismanagement. same to these yeshiva business people,the Judenraat of our society, the ones who let the parents stand on the sidewalks at 6 am in the morning like people waiting to buy concert tickets,to have the opportunity to register their kids ( as one administrator told me on more than 1 occasion) in the CADILLAC of yeshivas ,lol lol lol sad,and ugly of some of the baal gavios of these, scum who run our yeshivas,and girl schools. some of whom became millionaires,(thru the russian program scams,Pell grants, and other programs. I know, as i know some of these mafia types,personally,and thru business dealings,

95

 Aug 18, 2017 at 06:42 AM Ina Says:

Reply to #94  
schwartzi Says:

speech 48, you say " go ask mechila from the humble neshomas" lol ya, lol lol, the :educators" and menahlim,and administrators,and principals, will go running, to ask mechila. Are you kidding? to those yeshiva mafia types,they couldn't care less how many of these "expendable" types go off the derech,or die. To them its ( yeshiva) business as usual. So, what if over 100 died last year from overdose,/suicides, what does that come out to be ,1% of the total student body? big deal, like in any business there is a certain percent of loss attributed to theft,and or mismanagement. same to these yeshiva business people,the Judenraat of our society, the ones who let the parents stand on the sidewalks at 6 am in the morning like people waiting to buy concert tickets,to have the opportunity to register their kids ( as one administrator told me on more than 1 occasion) in the CADILLAC of yeshivas ,lol lol lol sad,and ugly of some of the baal gavios of these, scum who run our yeshivas,and girl schools. some of whom became millionaires,(thru the russian program scams,Pell grants, and other programs. I know, as i know some of these mafia types,personally,and thru business dealings,

schwartzi, thank you for not holding back and saying it like it is! When will we start naming the schools and those who run them? It is time! We need to chose. Do we want to see our children follow in the ways of our ancestors or do we want to see a generation running about, three or four OTD children in every family? This is coming and it will be unbearable!

96

 Aug 18, 2017 at 05:25 PM schwartzi Says:

1 quiz, which girl school principal( in Brooklyn) said to another girl school principal " : Dont send me your garbage"
and 1 quick story a friend of mine's son who attended a flat bush h.s. was thrown out for the following reason(s) 1- He was smoking in front of the yeshiva bldg,( together with a bunch of boys, from his class,but the yeshiva insisted that he was the " Leader" lol and also, he attended a Mordechai Ben David concert, this was around 24 years ago, maybe it was a different era for MBD concerts anyway,he was kicked out and no amount of cajoling,talking,pleading,helped, when the father told the rosh yeshiva,that throwing out a 16 year old in the middle of the zman is a matter of dinei nefashaos,as the yaaros devash( and others) brings in his sefer it fell on deaf ears, lol lol, who is the father to give mussar to a rosh yeshiva??? lol lol idiot,father,shoulda known better,its like telling a doctor what medicine to give to a patient, anyways, after calling various yeshivas and trying to get him in, in the middle of the zman,no one wanted to touch him with a 10 foot pole, which makes sense,because every yeshiva wants to know, why the boy was kicked out in the

97

 Aug 18, 2017 at 05:37 PM schwartzi Says:

the middle of the zman,and of course his former yeshiva,did not help him find another yeshiva to take him in. They just threw him under the bus.
That's the other problem you face if you get kicked out, you're on you own The Yeshiva Mafia,all stick together, 1 bad word or incident,and a family can be destroyed,whether it be information,on a bochur,girl,or shidduch prosopect. People out there dont realize the tremendous power and influence the yeshiva mafia,has on their lives. They can either make or break a shidduch,and the family involved.
Getting back to the story,after 6 months of being out of yeshiva ( note; the boy in involved was a very good boy,good middos,had lots of friends,and was very popular.but it seems,that either the concert,or the smoking ticked off the school) i know because i have 1st hand information,as i was involved with the family in trying to help them out. so, finally they consulted Rav Pam a'h who then talked to the yeshiva,and they agreed to take him back ( wonders of wonders) The yeshiva said that before they take him back they want to have a meeting with the boy and his father, they want to institute some takanos,before admitting him back. ok, no

98

 Aug 18, 2017 at 05:49 PM schwartzi Says:

ok the father agreed and they had the meeting, the takanos involved a ban on his son smoking ( even though HALF of the yeshiva was smoking,With the yeshiva's knowledge,and right in front of their noses) but anyway no problem here, also, no MBD concerts, ok, there too. And 1 more thing ( here comes the kicker) the father has to pay tuition for the 6 months that his son was on the streets, lol lol lol.
At this point, the father blew a fit ( can you blame him?) and he told the menahel and rosh yeshiva that he agreed to all their terms, BUT TO PAY MONEY FOR THE TIME HIS SON WAS ON THE STREETS? that's worse than sodom, so the dear rosh yeshiva got angry and said to the father, " what a chutzpah, you have, this is how you talk to a rosh yeshiva, KVOD HATORAH the nerve" and the father answered back. kvod hatorah? kvod hatorah? you BUMS almost destroyed my child,and now you have the nerve to ask me for tuition when he was on the streets? you can all go and shove, i lost all respect for you and your ilk, i would never send him back to this mafia run school. you make the shylocks look good. anyway, b h he found a chofetz chaim yeshiva out of town,that gladly took him in,

99

 Aug 18, 2017 at 05:59 PM schwartzi Says:

and he loved it there,and they loved him back,and he graduated from there,went on to college,raised a beautiful family k;ayin hora, and became a philanthropist at the same time, becoming a major supporter of his yeshiva,and others too. It so happened that around 3 years ago,when his old yeshiva sent out schnorrer letters,as all yeshivas do, he sent them back a $ 1 donation together with a picture of himself and a plaque being honored by another institution,
Moral of the story, NEVER kick out a child, ya never knows what will become of him/her ( in the future) ,they might just be one of your biggest supporters,or even end up sitting on your board . of directors. I'll tell ya, dose losers that kicked him out lost out on a golden opportunity , They blew it by being chazerim. lol lol lol. 1 story that had a happy ending b' h

100

 Aug 19, 2017 at 10:11 PM TzviB Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Interesting how he could judge someone for murder by reading the claims of one side.

This was my first thought. The story as related in the letter is full of holes.

101

 Aug 19, 2017 at 10:59 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #99  
schwartzi Says:

and he loved it there,and they loved him back,and he graduated from there,went on to college,raised a beautiful family k;ayin hora, and became a philanthropist at the same time, becoming a major supporter of his yeshiva,and others too. It so happened that around 3 years ago,when his old yeshiva sent out schnorrer letters,as all yeshivas do, he sent them back a $ 1 donation together with a picture of himself and a plaque being honored by another institution,
Moral of the story, NEVER kick out a child, ya never knows what will become of him/her ( in the future) ,they might just be one of your biggest supporters,or even end up sitting on your board . of directors. I'll tell ya, dose losers that kicked him out lost out on a golden opportunity , They blew it by being chazerim. lol lol lol. 1 story that had a happy ending b' h

schwartzi, your awful story leads me to ask yet again, who exactly are these "roshei yeshiva" being mechanech? They are rotten people and there is no possibility that they can be mechanech anyone at all. It is no wonder we do not have as many gedolim today as one might expect.

102

 Aug 20, 2017 at 01:46 AM schwartzi Says:

Ina, we cant make a blanket statement saying all mechanchim or roshei yeshivos are bad g d forbid, that would be totally false, but unfortunately there are quite a lot of screw ups among them.
The rosh yeshiva in the above story is the son a well known Rav in Brooklyn ( who passed away some time ago, who happened to be a very down to educator) I myself am surprised that he acted this way. But fo figure.

103

 Aug 20, 2017 at 12:41 PM Ina Says:

Reply to #102  
schwartzi Says:

Ina, we cant make a blanket statement saying all mechanchim or roshei yeshivos are bad g d forbid, that would be totally false, but unfortunately there are quite a lot of screw ups among them.
The rosh yeshiva in the above story is the son a well known Rav in Brooklyn ( who passed away some time ago, who happened to be a very down to educator) I myself am surprised that he acted this way. But fo figure.

schwarti, I am in a place right now where I do not wish to have my children in the school alongside these "educators". Only problem is, there is a crisis in Brooklyn. Not enough high schools for our boys. If one says no to one or two of these horrible menaheliim, one is left with no school for the children. Currently, this problem is huge!

104

 Aug 22, 2017 at 11:37 AM schwartzi Says:

Reply to #103  
Ina Says:

schwarti, I am in a place right now where I do not wish to have my children in the school alongside these "educators". Only problem is, there is a crisis in Brooklyn. Not enough high schools for our boys. If one says no to one or two of these horrible menaheliim, one is left with no school for the children. Currently, this problem is huge!

i know, i feel for you. its business as usual.

105

 Aug 22, 2017 at 09:30 PM ps66q Says:

Reply to #11  
retired educator Says:

Your post pinpoints the problem. We can't just blame the schools... there are many factors in a child's downfall, some more significant than others.

From what I read and heard, Malky was lucky in that she had caring parents who fought for her. But who was guiding THEM? I get the impression they were struggling on their own - every school needs an independent parent/student advocate, not hired by the school but appointed by Torah U'Mesorah and paid by the government.Not a guidance counselor but someone who is familiar with all legal and emotional aspects of exclusion.

I have to say, the biggest culprits here are the "friends" who sucked her into this underworld. I had to face the fact my child was drawn to some borderline unsavory people and I dealt with it. I nipped it in the bud because things hadn't progressed very far.

There needs to be a "Malky's Contract" whereby our schools accept their responsibilities as educators and prepare for all eventualities.i fought for my students but there was no backing from the schools. I would like to become involved in such a project.

Finally ... I agree with the Mash - how can these "educators" sleep? To Ah Yid - your students are lucky.

I and I'm sure many parents, would have a tremendous benefit if you can please elaborate on how you were successful in nipping it in the bud. If you are not comfortable putting it out there please pm me or email me at my user name at yahoo.

106

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