New York - Too Expensive and Lonely to Be An Orthodox Jew, And Something Must Be Done |
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News Source: Rabbi Shmuley Boteach
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Archived photoNew York - The two most urgent priorities of the American Jewish community are making Jewish life more affordable and fixing the broken Jewish dating scene.
This recession has reinforced a conclusion that many came to before, that’s it’s just too expensive to be Jewish. Yes, we Jews have paid a far higher price than money to hold on to our traditions. So how ironic that an economic downturn may end up knocking countless Jewish families out of the possibility of Jewish practice.
The cost of Jewish day-school is a killer. Since there are precious few Jews in the world and since we are a community that shuns active proselytizing, we must rely on a high Jewish birthrate. But those, mostly orthodox, families who have a lot of kids are hit with tuition costs that are staggering and I know of many families who have had fewer children because they cannot afford school tuition.
Then there is the cost of kosher food which can average about thirty percent more than non-kosher food while kosher restaurants appear to be about fifty percent more. Of course, the Jewish festivals cost a fortune with Passover especially breaking the bank for many a family mired in unemployment and recession. Jewish religious articles are not cheap either. Tefillin are expensive with a Bar or Bat Mitzvah being much more so, especially since keeping-up-with-the-Schwartzes has now created toxic social competitiveness in our community.
Even the cost of simply living within walking distance of a Synagogue is often outside people’s reach since Jewish communities are for the most part in upscale neighborhoods. Once you walk there you have the cost of annual family membership to consider which is now skyrocketing as many communities undertake large capital improvements.
The other day a woman, whose husband’s salary was just severely cut and who has five young children, came to see me. She grew up secular and later became Jewish. She said to me coldly and matter-of-factly, “How odd that becoming religious has put us near bankruptcy. We had savings when we got married. But now tuition fees and other religious costs means that we’re always struggling.”
The dating dilemma is equally grave. The Jewish community seems to have two women for every man which creates an unnatural scene where it is nearly always the women who are pursuing the men and making them appear desperate. This both allows men to date without committing and also undermines traditional Jewish values about choosing a woman of substance and character. Since the men have a near-harem, they end up feeling like TV’s ‘The Bachelor’ and mostly dating women distinguished by figure and looks. The orthodox community is especially betraying itself in this department. Many of my colleagues in Chabad have been sharing stories with me of how mothers of eligible bochurim (student-Rabbis) now call a girl’s friends for references with the first questions often being about her size and physique. And the mothers have whole lists of girls who have been proposed as possible matches and work on several ‘applicants’ at once. Similarly, the other night I attended a forum for parents of Yeshiva University presided over by its distinguished and dedicated President Richard Joel. Among the first question put to him was why the shidduch scene at the world’s foremost orthodox educational institution has become so broken.
There are no easy solutions to these problems but here are some important suggestions.
First, the American Jewish community must make its foremost political priority, after support for Israel, the championing of school vouchers. Parents should have the right to choose which school they send their children attend and parochial schools should be getting state funding at the very least for their secular departments. In the same way American Jewry uses its considerable clout to support candidates who are pro-Israel, we must now get behind candidates who are pro-voucher.
Second, a national campaign should be launched to make Kosher food mainstream for Jew and non-Jew alike. Already studies show that approximately twenty percent of Americans buy food with kosher symbols because of the high food quality. Doubling that number would create an economy of scale which would vastly decrease the costs.
The same applies to kosher restaurants. Imagine a national kosher restaurant chain that markets itself to the mainstream public, available everywhere, and accomplishing two important goals. First, the dramatic reduction of costs through millions more customers and second, achieving the widespread availability of kosher food so that kosher travelers need not starve. If, say, a national organic Kosher food chain would open, many non-Jews who currently avoid fast food because its unhealthy may well flock to it because of high food quality.
Third, the Rabbis should institute communal norms of acceptable spending on Bar and Bat Mitvas, brises, and other religious celebrations that don’t break the backs of parents. This would also get rid of the unseemly game of extravagant one-upmanship that so often accompanies Bar and Bat Mitzvah celebrations that are more circus than spiritual.
Fourth, over the next few years the community should put a moratorium on capital projects and invest its money instead into lowering the cost of tuition and Shule membership. Better smaller buildings that are full rather than mammoth ones that are empty. We must move from a Bricks-and-mortar mentality to an education and programming orientation.
Finally, teaching Jewish values that pertain to dating and marriage should be mandatory in all Jewish schools and Synagogues. Men especially need to be educated as to the holistic concepts of female beauty that Judaism has always championed rather than allowing secular notions of physical beauty to dominate the dating scene. And if they had some self-respect, the women would get on with their lives, study, get degrees, and develop their potential rather than pursuing men who aren’t serious and just play with them. It should be the business of parents, Rabbis, and friends to push Jewish men to act honorably by dating seriously and committing. Our women should not spend their lives chasing commitment-phobic men.
No doubt others have far better suggestions than me. But to ignore our community’s financial and romantic crisis is to watch a generation of Jews leave the fold not because they’re bored or busy but because they’re broke and alone.
More of today's headlines
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Long Island, NY - Anti-Jewish Sentiments In Inwood
New York - City Council Considers Forming a Bedbug Task Force
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Read Comments (93) — Post Yours »
1
Mar 11, 2009 at 11:31 AM Yosele Pondrek Says:Report as Inappropriate
Today a pretty girl will marry the ugliest dude as long as he has lots of money.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 11:33 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
It's hard living a Jewish life, and I don't think there's one simple answer, that will magically make it easier. I'm not writing anymore, b/c right now I don't have the answer, or even an idea of what can be done....
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Mar 11, 2009 at 11:44 AM fakewood Says:Report as Inappropriate
this guy is a douche bag and needs to jump of a cliff
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Mar 11, 2009 at 11:42 AM Dave Says:Report as Inappropriate
Kosher food is not inherently healthy. To the degree that the non-observant buy Kosher food, it is a matter of perception, and for want of a better word, branding.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 11:58 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Schools:
1. Years ago wealthy jews would contribute to Yeshivas even if they were not observant themselves - now wealthy jews contribute to non-jewish universities.
2. Too many Yeshivas/Day Schools have many students with large discounts that shouldn't be discounted - example parent is a Rabbi. There are too many examples to list.
3. Aliya to Israel would solve most of the tuition problems by direct government payment of tuition.
4. School mergers - there are wealthy professionaly run day schools that should take over poorly run broke day schools/yeshivas.
5. Professional management - schools need MBAs to manage the finances - there are too many financially ignorant people managing schools (son-in-laws).
6. Too many yeshivas have become family businesses without accountibility to their paying customers - financial clarity to parents would make for better financing instead of secrets and multiple books.
7. Years ago yeshivas had in their student body children from non-observant homes (frequently wealthier due to fewer children) the idiotic competition to out-frum the next school has chased away students and thus contributers with their fake exclusivity.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 11:52 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
We all the know the problems, we need a solution!!
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Mar 11, 2009 at 12:18 PM glatekup Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ this guy is a douche bag and needs to jump of a cliff ”
This guy is living in a different world. Does he know that there are tens of thousands of yiddin living in lakewood, monsey, b.p., williamsburg, flatbush, crown heights etc. That do not spend money on these lavish bar/bat mitzvahs? Weddings are down to a minimum for those that cannot afford them. For mitzvos?of course we want to do them with the most mehudar way possible. That is why we do spend money on the best teffilin esrog,matzohs etc. The chinuch of our children is the most important expenditure of ours. You must be talking about a certain group, maybe large in size but small in priorities. They need to adapt to a different lifestyle. Maybe more like the ultra-orthodox community. Regarding the dating situation, yes we also have a bit of a problem but nowhere near the modern orthodox community. Maybe you should look to us for solving some of your problems. Not to say that we don't have any but it is definitely less than yours.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 12:13 PM dk Says:Report as Inappropriate
we need to go back to the 'old days' of the 'talmud torah' after school program. By the way, if all the jews would go to the local public schools, then the schools would 'become' good schools. they are only not so good because of all the local 'minorities' that attend, but if we have enough of our own, then we will stick toghether in the system and take care of our needs, in the same way that all other ethnic groups stick toghether.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 12:11 PM NOT SATMAR Says:Report as Inappropriate
No Satmar child is deprived of an education. There seems to be total communal suppoort in that area.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 11:47 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
This is disgusting and is purely sac yiras shomayim. However, I take issue with frum Yeshivas who build high maintenance buildings and then take the cost out on the tuitions... Regarding the dating issue yo must have faith in Hashem and daven. Don't say there are two women for every man, that is simply lack of faith
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Mar 11, 2009 at 11:35 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Wow! I don't always agree, but this is really a great piece.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 12:27 PM glatekup Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ we need to go back to the 'old days' of the 'talmud torah' after school program. By the way, if all the jews would go to the local public schools, then the schools would 'become' good schools. they are only not so good because of all the local 'minorities' that attend, but if we have enough of our own, then we will stick toghether in the system and take care of our needs, in the same way that all other ethnic groups stick toghether. ”
#9: you living in a dream world. Just because 50 years ago you were able to send kids to public schools etc., today that would be impossible. Do you know how many kids stayed shomer shabbos in those days? Not too many. Only the families that were shtark were able to do that. And in todays society that would be impossible. It would be the end of our community.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 12:29 PM glatekup Says:Report as Inappropriate
Sorry, my comment was directed to comment #8.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 12:26 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
We all know the shidduch problem is the disparity of ages when they start dating. People have to start marrying closer in age. It makes more sense anyway to marry someone closer in age.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 12:58 PM Move to KJ Says:Report as Inappropriate
Kiryas Joel N.Y. never send a kid home. Its a nice community, there are over 4000 families so its a nice size town and its only one hour from manhattan NY
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Mar 11, 2009 at 01:19 PM Know it all Says:Report as Inappropriate
Its not a Jewish problem!! Its a Litvisheh problem!! Wont go into details but there's alot behind my words
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Mar 11, 2009 at 01:12 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
It is not as clear as the article makes it.
Here are just a few of my thoughts:
True the food bill is larger. No way around that. But, with becoming frum, one does away with many or most of the non-permitted forms of entertainment he/she used to spend money on. This should make up the difference.
Also on that note. Before you complain about food prices, you better be driving a Chevrolet, Toyota, or other lowe-priced car. Don't drive up to your local kosher food store in a Lexus, BMW or Mercedes, and complain that the Chicken is $1.80 per pound higher than Perdue!
Yes, Tuition in Yeshivos is high .... but is it really? The tuition in a typical non-sectarian private school is $15,000 and up. How many yeshivos are higher than that? Sure, it is hard on those with many kids. It always is, frum or not. Near me are two excellent private schools which are not Jewish or religion oriented. Both are WELL OVER $15,000 per year, plus books, plus yearbook, plus ..... Nothing to do with being frum. These are not Jewish schools!
Sorry the restaurants are high.... many non frum, or non Jewish people have learned a long time ago to forgo restaurants, and prepare food before you leave the house. What is wrong with take-along instead of fast-food?
Expensive Bar Mitzvah parties? Don't do them. The Chareidi world usually does not bother with them. It is all a keeping up with the Joneses thing, and nothing to do with becoming religious. An aliyah on Monday or Thursday is best, with a Kiddush-type of party following davening. I say Monday or Thursday, because if you are newly religious, (or even if you ARE FFB) you are likely to have family members who would drive on Shabbos to attend your son's bar mitzvah. Bigger mitzvan to make it on Monday or Thurday ... and save a bundle. No need for expensive catered halls and crazy bands.
Weddings?! Have y'all seen the money limits many Chassidishe rebbes are putting on weddings? It is a great idea. Let us all practice restraint there.
By the way, non-kosher weddings are expensive also, if you fancy it up.
Tefillin?! Yes, that is a major expense. A decent pair of tefillin, not fancy, just decent begins around $1,000 But, we only need one or two pairs per bar mitzvah boy, depending on minhag. Many of us begin the child's tefillin fund years in advance. Unless you are going the Chabad or Breslov route, you only get one pair for a bar mitzvah boy. The rest of us to not use Rabbainu Tam until our wedding. So, one pair for bar mitzvah, and the other pair for the wedding. If you are Chabad or Breslov, or some other group which beging RT at bar mitzvah, double what you put in that tefillin fund.
Yes, housing near a shul tends to be more expensive. But not all over. You can look around at other neighborhoods. Some are areas on there way up which recently had a shul open up.
Where I live in Inverrary in Florida, One can find a 3 BR condo for under $150k and a 3 BR regular home, often with a pool, for under $300k ... all easy walking distance to shul and mikvah. ( within 2 blocks! ) (Not foreclosures and short sales)
What I am trying to say is that we do NOT need to go broke to be Frum. We may have to change some of our lifestyle expectations, but isn't that part of being frum anyway?
And... here is where I will tick some of my friends off:
Maybe people will be more likely to donate money to Yeshivos if they improved the secular departments. I may be a Chassidishe man myself, but I believe we have a responsibility to the kids to educate them properly. I will not donate my money to any yeshiva which does not offer at least 5 AP classes, and has a good record with them. Few things annoy me more than seeing our young married men trying to earn a living while not realizing they are functionally illiterate and completely ignorant!
Personally, if you can't write a decent essay, and if you can't handle simple differential equations, or you think New York is the largest city in the Western Hemisphere, you were abused by a bad school. If you think Andromeda is some old book, and the Milky Way is a cholov akum chocolate bar, you are ignorant. I offered one Yeshiva a nice donation, but to go towards acheiving that end. They told me there were happy with the awful secular department they had. I put my checkbook away.
I will not contribute to the lilliteracy of our precious Jewish boys and girls.
(pardon MY typos, I am too lazy to proofread and correct.)
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Mar 11, 2009 at 01:08 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
actually the most urgent thing is the fact that we are turning off so many of our own children with poor education, poor parenting and have a need for dozens of "youth at risk" type organizations for every little thing.
but dont let that stop boteach from his sensationlist ratings....
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Mar 11, 2009 at 12:46 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This guy is living in a different world. Does he know that there are tens of thousands of yiddin living in lakewood, monsey, b.p., williamsburg, flatbush, crown heights etc. That do not spend money on these lavish bar/bat mitzvahs? Weddings are down to a minimum for those that cannot afford them. For mitzvos?of course we want to do them with the most mehudar way possible. That is why we do spend money on the best teffilin esrog,matzohs etc. The chinuch of our children is the most important expenditure of ours. You must be talking about a certain group, maybe large in size but small in priorities. They need to adapt to a different lifestyle. Maybe more like the ultra-orthodox community. Regarding the dating situation, yes we also have a bit of a problem but nowhere near the modern orthodox community. Maybe you should look to us for solving some of your problems. Not to say that we don't have any but it is definitely less than yours. ”
That's why in non jewish world the divorce rate is almost 80% this is our anergy as more money for mitzvos is better
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Mar 11, 2009 at 12:42 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Dating/Marriage:
1. Two diseases have infected Jewish dating; girls seminaries and shidduch process.
2. The Girls Seminaries convince them that the boys must be learners with parents who will support them. Well guess what - not every boy wants to be a learner and not every parent is a piggy bank.
3. Not all girls parents are piggy banks either that can afford the extortion either.
4. The 'shidduch' process is geared to the boys and girls in their early twenties who buy into the learning system - once older the shadchens DROP them as too old and picky.
5. The process must return to the way it was (for those Dropped) - organization sponsored socials - so that people can meet in a natural way - Like their parents did (gasp college)!.
6. Sorry to say; parents have to kick their daughters in the butt - I have seen too many women who are serial daters (dating continuously for 20 years) and suddenly take it seriously when their biological clock rings,and then its too late.
7. Too many women are sleeping around with non-jewish and non-religious men: because the orthodox men they are set up with don't qualify in the "learner" standard of their friends.
8. Same for the men - sleeping around with Jewish women who just past-nisht for my parents/friends. And non-jewish because its mutual noncommittal. There are Jewish men married to shiksas because they gave up on the process and got sick of being home-alone.
9. Too much power has been given to the shadchens - who decide who will go out with whom - despite the man or womens "list" or qualification - anyone have a gate keeper for what they are buying in the market - or do you choose your own product.
10. Shadchens should drop the male and female serial daters - when people get non-ending lists they become addicted to the dating process and not the person accross the table - its NEXT - even in the last one was great.
11. Too many Rabbis think the system works great because it worked for their kids - so they think the problem is the thousands and thousands who just can't meet and not THEM for standing in the way of alternative methods - because chas v'sholom they might act innapropriately - see 7 and 8 above - those who want already act innapropriately.
12. There are too many women and men that are home alone without dates because they are excluded for IDIOTIC reasons - earner/hat color/kippa sruga/green dress/bad hair style/sick sibling/deceased parent/wrong shul or yeshiva or semenery - I can go on and on with the stupid reasons shadchens or parents reject dates (and why daters as well).
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Mar 11, 2009 at 12:42 PM HAGTBG Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ #9: you living in a dream world. Just because 50 years ago you were able to send kids to public schools etc., today that would be impossible. Do you know how many kids stayed shomer shabbos in those days? Not too many. Only the families that were shtark were able to do that. And in todays society that would be impossible. It would be the end of our community. ”
"Only the families that were shtark were able to do that." You are simply wrong. Most of the frum Jews of today are descended from (or are) the people who went to public school 50-60 years ago. And while that is to the merit of the parents of those days, that does not mean they were 'shtark.'
Not to say that public school is the right choice for today.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 12:39 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Shmuley is a very decent man. the douche bag comment is moronic
he points problems we have; his solutions though are not completely practical
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Mar 11, 2009 at 01:30 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
the yeshivas charge way to much $ wat they do with it I don't knw but the children aren't getting the education they should be getting for the money the schools take. with the dating its not easy exspecialy when you r being influneced by people around you on the boy or girl u should b dating
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Mar 11, 2009 at 01:35 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I really like his fourth point with capital projects. I suspect that if someone donated too much money too an orginization they would decide that they need a new building and than there yearly budget would increase tremendously.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 01:35 PM yossi Says:Report as Inappropriate
My great Uncle used to say from all Dates becomes Figs......Very interesting that all those communities where dating is the NORM have a much higher divorce rate then those fum erliche (fanatic as some people call us) live a vey happy life. Yes we struggle for parnooseh and raising kids but look at the end of the day who is better off...One shadchen told me that she has a list of over 1500 girls age 25 and higher from the jewish communities..Talk to a willamsburgh,monroe,monsey shadchen and 90% girls are engaged...Why.? because erliche frum yidden have a different haskofeh in life...We learned different from our rebbes and tzdikim..Hashem is mefarnes and gives every one as much as we need..I see those doctors,lawyers and big millionares always complaining about TUITION but they dont complai about Passover in HOTELS that cost between 20-30 thousand dollars..they dony complain about the big mortgages and 3 cars they owe.always the yeshivas are charging too much..
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Mar 11, 2009 at 01:33 PM grandpajoe Says:Report as Inappropriate
1) We all do not live in a Satmar or Lakewood or Monsey world
2) Those of us in the 'real' world are aware of the issues - the problem with the shiduch 'business' today it is a business - and it's not only the boys who want the 'pretty' girls - the girls want the 'handsome' boys. And what about more emphasis on working - in today's economy perhaps one can work and learn - parents can no longer support the boys in a style the girls parents would want them to.
3) Bottom line we must have Bitachon in Hashem -
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Mar 11, 2009 at 01:42 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
One of the reasons (NOT the only one) that tuitions are so unmanageably high in our schools: The Mosdos Hatorah are used as employment agencies for the many needy Kollel wives and young men leaving kollel who have already created large families and have no means of supporting themselves. I have experience only with the yeshivish/litvish yeshivas, Bais Yakovs, and similar institutions and am not sure if it's the same elsewhere. Step into the offices of some of these mosdos and see how many various types of administrative positions they manage to invent, with each so-called administrator and manager having his own personal fleet of secretaries and underlings. These salaries are supporting many young families (those of the employed) and pushing others to the brink of financial insolvency (those paying the salaries through their tuition).
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Mar 11, 2009 at 02:12 PM moshe g Says:Report as Inappropriate
shmuley
as usuaul you bring out the issues that affect us greatly in a beatiful manner, and even come up with great solutions
and ere are some comments on your solutions
on the kosher food issue i think that the main cost where kosher food is higher is on items like milk meat and bread. the rest of the items that are national are the great and the same price
so making kosher meat a national product ? is a great idea and we were on our way with agri unfortunantly thay had their issues, so we need a new agri that can make the distribution all over america and keep the kosher meat down
the bar and bat mitzvah thing is great if the rabbis would only do it (but then the jewish caterers and halls mostly schools photographer musucians will loose)
and finally with the dateing we need to offer incentives to the matchmakers more money an older girls and this should come from community funding
and a issue you did not bring up
as jews most of us live in jewish communities and i do as well and we all know that the talmud tell us the poor of YOUR community comes first
in our current financial situation should anything be done about all the outside fundraisers about people comming in to our community and collecting money for outside things
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Mar 11, 2009 at 02:09 PM nsker Says:Report as Inappropriate
I think priorities are somewhat misplaced with the exception of school voucher issue.
1. Vouchers should be a priority indeed. But the quality of most of our schools themselves is dismal, and their financial troubles are not the only cause. We now have a second generation of "chinuch professionals", who are themselves raised in the culture of incompetence and nepotism. With few notable exceptions, melamdim are in their positions not because of their talents or love for children, but simply because they learned to do nothing else, and chinuch is the field with the lowest qualifications needed; anything goes short of physical abuse (and even that, as we see recently).
I would like to remind that people who can afford not to work full time, may be able to home-school their kids. The problem is largely the public perception that we live in a communist collective farm, and you are obligated to give up your shepselach to the communal herd.
2. Hoping for non-Jewish public to pick up some of our kosher food costs is sheer nonsense. This is a service they do not need, however you might advertise it to them. Especially restaurants: if there is no market to support hashgocho, you can't hope to create it in order to save your favorite restaurant. Restaurants are a luxury anyway, and do not belong on a communal policy priority list.
And linking health to kashrus is outright misleading to both Jews and non-Jews, IMO. It would be bordering on fraud and false advertisement issues.
3. I would not like guidelines on simchas costs; let whoever can afford them do what he wants. But it will help the social atmosphere if more people, especially these rabbonim and other leaders, would make an example of modesty in these matters. After all, bar mitzvah parties are an American invention; let's remember that nothing beyond learnig for the event, an aliyah and maamar/pilpul, and maybe a kiddush in shul is required. Let's cut them; put away the $10k that would be spent on this nonsense into a safe CD or money market account, and the chassunah cost problem is solved.
4. And yes, I agree the shidduchim problems is mostly an outcome of the problems in chinuch and "keeping up with Schwartzes".
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Mar 11, 2009 at 01:52 PM Dave Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ That's why in non jewish world the divorce rate is almost 80% this is our anergy as more money for mitzvos is better ”
In America, 41% of first marriages end in divorce. This is not hard information to find.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 01:51 PM DizzyIzzy Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ No Satmar child is deprived of an education. There seems to be total communal suppoort in that area. ”
Going to school doesn't constitute an education. The products of Satmar schooling I know are so badly deprived of an education, the community should pay them not to sue.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 02:34 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ My great Uncle used to say from all Dates becomes Figs......Very interesting that all those communities where dating is the NORM have a much higher divorce rate then those fum erliche (fanatic as some people call us) live a vey happy life. Yes we struggle for parnooseh and raising kids but look at the end of the day who is better off...One shadchen told me that she has a list of over 1500 girls age 25 and higher from the jewish communities..Talk to a willamsburgh,monroe,monsey shadchen and 90% girls are engaged...Why.? because erliche frum yidden have a different haskofeh in life...We learned different from our rebbes and tzdikim..Hashem is mefarnes and gives every one as much as we need..I see those doctors,lawyers and big millionares always complaining about TUITION but they dont complai about Passover in HOTELS that cost between 20-30 thousand dollars..they dony complain about the big mortgages and 3 cars they owe.always the yeshivas are charging too much.. ”
You're being unfair. I know plenty of "modern" yidden who have small houses, 1 car, and never go away for pesach (except maybe to the in-laws in Queens or something) who are struggling to pay yeshiva tuition. It's a genuine problem.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 02:48 PM Thomas Says:Report as Inappropriate
Interesting point about Richard Joel being asked about the shidduch crisis. I never understood why Yeshiva University didn't actively arrange and promote events between YU and Stern - in the four years I was there, other than the Chanuka concert I don't think I ever heard of an event that included both schools.
It's bizarre, because YU could have brought the two schools together for events in such a fine and responsible manner. And the reality of the situation is that once the students graduate, so many of them migrate to the Upper West Side, where relationships between the sexes are typically anything but "fine and responsible".
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Mar 11, 2009 at 02:51 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I can only say that for the past five years me and all my friends mostly girls and a few boy cousins went to rabbi Yonah Carlebach of lakewood for a bracha on either purim or simchas torah and we all got married within the year He never took a penny from anybody even after we tried to give him . i dont know about anybody else but for us he certainly worked
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Mar 11, 2009 at 02:51 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Today a pretty girl will marry the ugliest dude as long as he has lots of money. ”
"Today" and always!!!
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Mar 11, 2009 at 03:00 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
2 things: First: When you write that "She grew up secular and later became Jewish." Don't you mean: 'she was born Jewish and became observant'?? After all, she was Jewish when she was born!!!
Second: When you write: "Our women should not spend their lives chasing commitment-phobic men." How about focusing on getting the men to get over their phobia and get married as it is, after all, their mitzvah!!!
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Mar 11, 2009 at 03:26 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
How will the suggestions in this article do anything to impact "two woman for every man?" Guys being more responsible daters just means that the girls left out in the cold are different, but there's still a huge number of permanently single women. Problem is a growing community + guys dating younger girls = extra girls. Start making it the norm to date your own age and the problem will solve itself.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 03:25 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
On the dating issue i think the best way to solve that would be to change the process of the shiduch to the way the satmars are doing that
it simply doesnt make sense that kids of the age of 20-30 should make such an important decision in life such as finding a partner, doesnt matter how smart, learned, they are, they might have learned in the greatest yeshivos, by the biggest geonim, with the best hashkofah, they still dont have the "settled" that the parents of the age of about 40-50 have BEN ARBOIM LEBINAH!!!
Even though the kids made the decision already they are looking back a whole life that the other "maybe" might have been a better option, & that causes the much higher divorcing rates then the frum satmars
you might look on them fanatic but thats the fact!!!!
i dont mean to cross out all the way the his or her mind (& dont think that the satmars are crossing out their children s mind) just the father & mother are doing the research & singling out a few of them & talking over with the child all the options on the table
as far i know by the satmars have full trust in their parents, but the children are still feeling that its "their" decision,
this will avoid a "lot" problems in the community, divorces, shulom bais, ehrlicha kinder & so forth,
i would appreciate to see if someone has any comments about my thought,
thanks
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Mar 11, 2009 at 03:18 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
The kosher beef/chicken/milk food problem is simple - we are being ripped off.
As a captive audience we have no other source of product because competition is limited by the kashrut organizations (which charge exorbitant fees). I guarantee if Perdue were to get certified kashrut - chicken prices would shrink.
Kosher restaurants have to hire full time mashgiachs at salary plus the kashrut fee - that is a huge fixed cost - plus they require certain approved shopping lists and suppliers which add another big layer to costs.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 03:58 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
The article does simplify many things that are complex.
1) The price of kosher meat, its not that different then quality non-kosher meat. Go check the price of Kobe beef ... There are significant costs with Kosher meat and time to process that all add to the cost. Also the quality of the animals is higher then the cheep meat you see in the store and are like wow $1.99 for a roast (that has almost zero taste). Check the price for boars head cold cuts (or any premium cold cut) and the price is maybe %15 different . When I took my co-workers to a kosher deli they raved about the sandwiches because the meat tasted so much better (They have since gone back many times so they weren't just being nice).
2) Vouchers will never pass for many reasons, the fact is that the UTF has 1.2 million members and the NFT has about 4 million that's about 5.2 million reasons vouchers will not go any place. In Maryland they ran this program for home school children, it was online classrooms funded with public money, so if you home school you didn't have to be able to teach math/English/science... . The program was successful until the union got word of it and killed it.
3) Egos, just read the posts .. this isn't a problem in chasidishe places .. this isn;t a problem in the ultra -orthodox ... well its good to know the next generation of reform jews is getting a fantastic education. (For those who attend the schools mentioned above, let me explain the joke, since reform jews intermarry and disappear they get new members from dissociated kids of those wonderful chasidishe places, and still despite the amazing birthrate, non-religious jews always outnumber the religious ones... seemed to be a problem all the way back to bayit reshon). The egos of the people running the schools, there will never be a chasidishe joint project with a litivishe school and allow the non-religious to attend as long as they behave due to "influence".
4) Marriage, Hashem does take care of this for those who want to be married, when one is ready to be married and really wants to find someone (not just wants to be married for the sake of being married, or because parents think its a good idea) they tend to do it very quickly. Most of the single people I met who are having such a hard time want to be "married" but aren't really looking for a person they are looking for the concept. Once they have their epiphany and start looking for a person to be married to, they quickly find him/her.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 03:56 PM Jealous of Satmar Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ On the dating issue i think the best way to solve that would be to change the process of the shiduch to the way the satmars are doing that
it simply doesnt make sense that kids of the age of 20-30 should make such an important decision in life such as finding a partner, doesnt matter how smart, learned, they are, they might have learned in the greatest yeshivos, by the biggest geonim, with the best hashkofah, they still dont have the "settled" that the parents of the age of about 40-50 have BEN ARBOIM LEBINAH!!!
Even though the kids made the decision already they are looking back a whole life that the other "maybe" might have been a better option, & that causes the much higher divorcing rates then the frum satmars
you might look on them fanatic but thats the fact!!!!
i dont mean to cross out all the way the his or her mind (& dont think that the satmars are crossing out their children s mind) just the father & mother are doing the research & singling out a few of them & talking over with the child all the options on the table
as far i know by the satmars have full trust in their parents, but the children are still feeling that its "their" decision,
this will avoid a "lot" problems in the community, divorces, shulom bais, ehrlicha kinder & so forth,
i would appreciate to see if someone has any comments about my thought,
thanks
”
You are 100% "Dead On" correct.
Also, matches via shidduch are with men and women not avoiding commitment. They want to get married.
The really chassidishe marriages like Satmar and those similar, are based upon similar cultures, values, and personalities matched by those who know them the best.
Their LOVE grows from working together to build a home and family. They wind up GROWING in Love, instead of Falling in Love.
Their marriages have a VERY high success rate, and very high happiness rate.
I visited Kiryas Joel, the Satmar city in Monroe, 3 years ago. All I found were VERY HAPPY PEOPLE. I met some of the most wonderfully happy, calm, satisfied people. They were kind, welcoming, and pleasant. I left feeling envy. Those who mock them are foolish. They are doing something right.
And, they were VERY willing to talk and share their feelings and thoughts, in friendly, outgoing ways.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 03:48 PM Chaim S. Says:Report as Inappropriate
This guy is seriously out of touch with the mainstream Jewish community he allges he wants to "fix". He always has been out of touch with traditional frum values. Note some of his books which can't even be mentioned here.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 03:44 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I am an employer who has to test the graduates of our Yeshivos.
Contrary to popular belief, though amost ALL of the Chassidishe yeshivos offer rather poor "English" educations, Satmar if VERY FAR from the worst. The Crown Heights yeshivos are by far the worse. I just had one of their proud graduates, a yungerman, spell "Apelle Compyuters" along with another dozen equally serious mistakes on one page. Though I believe Satmar and some of the others actually stop "English" in "Yeshiva" ... having it only in Cheider, they seem to learn on their own. Many come to me with G.E.D.'s they earned on their own, and their knowledge and skills show it. The ones from Crown Heights come with few if any skills, and embarrassingly little knowldge.
The Litvishe yeshivos are not much better than the Chassidish, but the Mod Orth are far superior. Y of F is excellent.
I am not saying we should expect our Chareidi Yeshivos to be at that level, but it would be nice if they did a better job.
The biggest handicap is that those educated in our NY mosdois, can have a really hard time if they needed to get jobs out of NY. Here we try our best to hire "Unzere" giving a start to many who are academically challenged.
But, these same folks who are earning a decent living here, can't move away, as in most other locations around the country, experience is not enough. They want education. Many actually give tough tests now and want to see those diplomas before hiring. Most companies out of NY area, will choose a graduate with a good education and zero experience, over a non-graduate with 5 years on the job and perfect references. The world is changing.
We need to give these kids a better education.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 03:43 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
the dating situation is ridiculous. we used to want our children to marry a "Jew". Now we have different kinds of jews. lubavitch only marry lubavitch, litvish only marry litvish etc. etc.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 03:40 PM smart man Says:Report as Inappropriate
i wanna make a point about the simcha costs i think that there one major problem here
that we have a problem to say "i dont have money"
& everybody who doesnt make a Gorgeous & expensive event for any occasion has a feeling he is a looser!!!
when in fact money is a matter of luck or how its called in yidish hashgacha pratis!!
if everybody will know his place where he belongs & how much he can afford, this would solve the problem,
im not talking about the %20 real poor man , or the %20 really rich people, im talking about the rest who have the pressure to come up with the extra $30,000 for a wedding just because everyone is making such a nice wedding,
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Mar 11, 2009 at 04:11 PM Satmar Man Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ The kosher beef/chicken/milk food problem is simple - we are being ripped off.
As a captive audience we have no other source of product because competition is limited by the kashrut organizations (which charge exorbitant fees). I guarantee if Perdue were to get certified kashrut - chicken prices would shrink.
Kosher restaurants have to hire full time mashgiachs at salary plus the kashrut fee - that is a huge fixed cost - plus they require certain approved shopping lists and suppliers which add another big layer to costs. ”
How are we getting ripped off.
As you said the kosher restaurant must hire and pay full time mashgichim! This does cost them a lot of money, and they do pay more for the food.
What do you expect? No mashgiach?
In fact, anyone who eats at any establishment with no mashgiach temidi is a fool. No matter how religious and trustworthy an owner is, the temptation to cheat is there all the time, and the temptation bug can bite anyone.
I may have long payus and a long beard and coat. But, if I opened a restaurant, I would insist of a mashgiach temidi, every minute I am open. He would need to unlock the front door to let me in. I would not wish the risky temptation.
I am friends with a rov who is a rav hamachshir. He told me "For you we would not need a mashgiach temidi. Yotzai V'Nichnas would be fine."
I responded, "I would not do that. I would insist on a mashgiach temidi. I would not want the responsibility to have people's kashrus rest on my yiras shomayim, without someone to oversee and make sure I don't mess up."
Remember, locks are not for theives, they are for honest people. The professional theif can get through locks. The lock is to keep the honest person from giving in to temptation. I am an honest man, I need a lock.
Now, we also need to pay our mashgichim better than they are getting paid. The low pay we are giving a mashgiach today is CRIMINAL. How are we to expect a man to live, support a family, etc., on a lousy $15/hr! ... and some pay even less.
No mashgiach today should need to work for less than $20 /hr, and he should get good medical insurance and certainly be on the books. It is very easy to get hurt in a commercial kitchen. Off the books means no worker's comp.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 04:10 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Being a religious Jew can break the bank so to speak! If you do not go from store to store to get the specials then you are being robbed blind!! If you do not use coupons, then don't complain to us!!
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Mar 11, 2009 at 04:09 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ It is not as clear as the article makes it.
Here are just a few of my thoughts:
True the food bill is larger. No way around that. But, with becoming frum, one does away with many or most of the non-permitted forms of entertainment he/she used to spend money on. This should make up the difference.
Also on that note. Before you complain about food prices, you better be driving a Chevrolet, Toyota, or other lowe-priced car. Don't drive up to your local kosher food store in a Lexus, BMW or Mercedes, and complain that the Chicken is $1.80 per pound higher than Perdue!
Yes, Tuition in Yeshivos is high .... but is it really? The tuition in a typical non-sectarian private school is $15,000 and up. How many yeshivos are higher than that? Sure, it is hard on those with many kids. It always is, frum or not. Near me are two excellent private schools which are not Jewish or religion oriented. Both are WELL OVER $15,000 per year, plus books, plus yearbook, plus ..... Nothing to do with being frum. These are not Jewish schools!
Sorry the restaurants are high.... many non frum, or non Jewish people have learned a long time ago to forgo restaurants, and prepare food before you leave the house. What is wrong with take-along instead of fast-food?
Expensive Bar Mitzvah parties? Don't do them. The Chareidi world usually does not bother with them. It is all a keeping up with the Joneses thing, and nothing to do with becoming religious. An aliyah on Monday or Thursday is best, with a Kiddush-type of party following davening. I say Monday or Thursday, because if you are newly religious, (or even if you ARE FFB) you are likely to have family members who would drive on Shabbos to attend your son's bar mitzvah. Bigger mitzvan to make it on Monday or Thurday ... and save a bundle. No need for expensive catered halls and crazy bands.
Weddings?! Have y'all seen the money limits many Chassidishe rebbes are putting on weddings? It is a great idea. Let us all practice restraint there.
By the way, non-kosher weddings are expensive also, if you fancy it up.
Tefillin?! Yes, that is a major expense. A decent pair of tefillin, not fancy, just decent begins around $1,000 But, we only need one or two pairs per bar mitzvah boy, depending on minhag. Many of us begin the child's tefillin fund years in advance. Unless you are going the Chabad or Breslov route, you only get one pair for a bar mitzvah boy. The rest of us to not use Rabbainu Tam until our wedding. So, one pair for bar mitzvah, and the other pair for the wedding. If you are Chabad or Breslov, or some other group which beging RT at bar mitzvah, double what you put in that tefillin fund.
Yes, housing near a shul tends to be more expensive. But not all over. You can look around at other neighborhoods. Some are areas on there way up which recently had a shul open up.
Where I live in Inverrary in Florida, One can find a 3 BR condo for under $150k and a 3 BR regular home, often with a pool, for under $300k ... all easy walking distance to shul and mikvah. ( within 2 blocks! ) (Not foreclosures and short sales)
What I am trying to say is that we do NOT need to go broke to be Frum. We may have to change some of our lifestyle expectations, but isn't that part of being frum anyway?
And... here is where I will tick some of my friends off:
Maybe people will be more likely to donate money to Yeshivos if they improved the secular departments. I may be a Chassidishe man myself, but I believe we have a responsibility to the kids to educate them properly. I will not donate my money to any yeshiva which does not offer at least 5 AP classes, and has a good record with them. Few things annoy me more than seeing our young married men trying to earn a living while not realizing they are functionally illiterate and completely ignorant!
Personally, if you can't write a decent essay, and if you can't handle simple differential equations, or you think New York is the largest city in the Western Hemisphere, you were abused by a bad school. If you think Andromeda is some old book, and the Milky Way is a cholov akum chocolate bar, you are ignorant. I offered one Yeshiva a nice donation, but to go towards acheiving that end. They told me there were happy with the awful secular department they had. I put my checkbook away.
I will not contribute to the lilliteracy of our precious Jewish boys and girls.
(pardon MY typos, I am too lazy to proofread and correct.)
”
"or you think New York is the largest city in the Western Hemisphere"
BTW, yes, that's pretty accurate!
So the question is: where were you educated???
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Mar 11, 2009 at 04:03 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
We are Headless,with the Evil one working overtime, dividing us further by such childish nonsense as My Rebbes bigger than your Rebbe and MY kosher supervision is the Only game in town ,everyone else is Traiff.This KOSHER-NOSTRA of our food is based on GREED, not the Torah. We suffer with overpriced ,inferior food for our body and SOUL and our leaders line their pockets!!!!Take Montreal ,for example, a Vaad that will not let anyone in, feeding a few greedy PIGS and keeping meat and milk products HIGH!
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Mar 11, 2009 at 04:28 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I am an employer who has to test the graduates of our Yeshivos.
Contrary to popular belief, though amost ALL of the Chassidishe yeshivos offer rather poor "English" educations, Satmar if VERY FAR from the worst. The Crown Heights yeshivos are by far the worse. I just had one of their proud graduates, a yungerman, spell "Apelle Compyuters" along with another dozen equally serious mistakes on one page. Though I believe Satmar and some of the others actually stop "English" in "Yeshiva" ... having it only in Cheider, they seem to learn on their own. Many come to me with G.E.D.'s they earned on their own, and their knowledge and skills show it. The ones from Crown Heights come with few if any skills, and embarrassingly little knowldge.
The Litvishe yeshivos are not much better than the Chassidish, but the Mod Orth are far superior. Y of F is excellent.
I am not saying we should expect our Chareidi Yeshivos to be at that level, but it would be nice if they did a better job.
The biggest handicap is that those educated in our NY mosdois, can have a really hard time if they needed to get jobs out of NY. Here we try our best to hire "Unzere" giving a start to many who are academically challenged.
But, these same folks who are earning a decent living here, can't move away, as in most other locations around the country, experience is not enough. They want education. Many actually give tough tests now and want to see those diplomas before hiring. Most companies out of NY area, will choose a graduate with a good education and zero experience, over a non-graduate with 5 years on the job and perfect references. The world is changing.
We need to give these kids a better education.
”
BTW, in Crown Heights there is NO English. Not even in Cheider.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 04:29 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Today a pretty girl will marry the ugliest dude as long as he has lots of money. ”
That's an old story, what's the chidush?
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Mar 11, 2009 at 04:19 PM Yoely Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ You are 100% "Dead On" correct.
Also, matches via shidduch are with men and women not avoiding commitment. They want to get married.
The really chassidishe marriages like Satmar and those similar, are based upon similar cultures, values, and personalities matched by those who know them the best.
Their LOVE grows from working together to build a home and family. They wind up GROWING in Love, instead of Falling in Love.
Their marriages have a VERY high success rate, and very high happiness rate.
I visited Kiryas Joel, the Satmar city in Monroe, 3 years ago. All I found were VERY HAPPY PEOPLE. I met some of the most wonderfully happy, calm, satisfied people. They were kind, welcoming, and pleasant. I left feeling envy. Those who mock them are foolish. They are doing something right.
And, they were VERY willing to talk and share their feelings and thoughts, in friendly, outgoing ways. ”
Oh, just one error in the beginning of your commentary Mr. Jealous. It's not "Dead On" correct.. It's "Live On" Correct. So don't remain Jealous..Join us!
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Mar 11, 2009 at 04:32 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I am FFB, married with children and the title of this article describes me to a "T"! No matter what anyone says there are a lot of people out there who are working their kishkes out there just trying to survive and feeling absolutely no support from the frum world they are supposed to be a part of.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 04:59 PM time to go Says:Report as Inappropriate
Reading the article quickly it seems similar analysis and solutions are offered every few years. There is however a of truth about the costs of education,food and housing as well as institutional obligations.
It would seem the community's needs both individual and communal are more than either can afford.
Day schools/Yeshivot Ketanot most likely would benefit from more professional managment and public accountability. If an individual wants to start a school Kol HaKvod but do not make a private enterprise in to Tzorchei Zibur.The comparrisons with private schools generally is misplaced as they are marketing to a well heeled consumer.
Similarly Synagouges, their boards and officers should bear in mind they hold Mamon Hekdesh and act accordingly.
Shidduchim, this is matter of chinuch in the home, school and community what messages are being sent to our children about what matters?
As to the inbalance between men and women well that is above my pay grade
One last thought maybe all of this which can be summed up as how Jewish life in America is becoming untenable may be Hashem subtle way of telling us it is time to go home.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 04:57 PM Dave Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ "or you think New York is the largest city in the Western Hemisphere"
BTW, yes, that's pretty accurate!
So the question is: where were you educated??? ”
No, actually it isn't.
Sao Paulo, Brazil, is the largest at 11.1 million people.
Mexico City is also larger than New York City (at 8.8 million versus 8.2 million), and has the largest metropolitan area in the Western Hemisphere (22 million people).
For reference, there are about 19 million people in the entire state of New York.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 05:42 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
School vouchers is not a solution. It won't happen (and probably shouldn't happen due to separation of church and state). The same for making everything kosher. The solutions offered by Rabbi Boteach depend on others to support the frum life style. That is not realistic or appropriate. The answers have to come from within the community. The community needs to be self supporting. At a minimum, kids have to get a good education and be encouraged to go to college so they can get good jobs. If not, how will the next generation be able to pay tuitions? Consolidation of all the smaller day schools and much more transparency in their finances, having independent boards of directors and people with real management skills will help some, but won't solve the problem by itself. Public school is going to be the only choice for some, so there needs to be more discussion about how to make that work and develop good after school programs rather than just blindly saying its not an option.
BTW - I am puzzled by the bashing of CH schools. I know Lubavitchers who are very well educated, bright, articulate and with good writing skills.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 05:38 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Some how the Monroe satmerar succeded in cutting the cost of weddings & vorts as well as the costs of bar mitzvahs (don't forget they never did bat mitzvas...) To a bare minimum cost!
We gotta give credit where credit is due..(This goes even to our very conspicous chasidim hatters...)
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Mar 11, 2009 at 06:14 PM Miss Williamsburg Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Going to school doesn't constitute an education. The products of Satmar schooling I know are so badly deprived of an education, the community should pay them not to sue. ”
Satmar girls get a great education. Of course it's not on the same level as what the MO girls get, but to say that they are badly deprived of an education is False.
About Shidduchim: In the Chassidishe world it's just the opposite. The boys run after the girls and there are many more single boys than girls. It's very interesting that it's just the opposite, but that's how it is,
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Mar 11, 2009 at 06:14 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ In America, 41% of first marriages end in divorce. This is not hard information to find. ”
Interestingly, the state with the lowest divorce rate is Massachusetts - the most liberal state even though the marriage rate is high. Red (conservative) states generally have much higher divorce rates that blue (liberal) states. More education and higher incomes lower the divorce rate, at least outside of frum communities.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 05:58 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I think the article exagerates the cost of eating kosher food. If most of your diet is based on fruits, vegetables, fish, eggs, nuts, pasta and cereal, it's the same as non-kosher. It's only when you use a lot of meat and dairy (for those who do cholov yisroel) that there is a big difference, but even that is only a portion of the ordinary diet. People who don't travel as much as Rabbi Boteach don't need to worry about kosher restaurants.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 05:15 PM dovy Says:Report as Inappropriate
Sorry, I didn't have the patience to read all of the comments carefully. However, I belive a few points were missed.
1. Supporting Israel is NOT our 1st priority. Our own communities and children are our true 1st priority. Supporting Israel (the people not the government) is secondary.
2. Vouchers are unconstitutional as they violate the separation of church and State.
3. Those who lambasted and attacked Rubashkin, rather than helping him (at least morally), are partially to blame for the current shortage of Kosher chicken and meat, which has resulted in severe price hikes.
4. The ONLY solution to the charedi shidduch crisis (as opposed to the Modern Orthodox one) is to get boys and girls to date people of the same age exclusively.
5. There are other problems facing our communities of at least equal importance. These include, the kids-at-risk crisis, the current tragic system of nepotism that reigns in our yeshivos, which has brought undeserving individuals to positions of extreme influence and has torn great mosdos haTorah apart due to infighting and our failue to properly address the issues related to Internet usage and modern technology.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 06:32 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Fakewood's English is a Joke and litttle do the wise ones realize that if you make English a Joke the Hebrew studies are rite behind. Let's learn to SHNOOR and depend on a Father-in-law. The Holy kids in Fakewood are illiterate and FULL of Chutspah. Get back to basics, reading and writing skills and most important ,Derech Eretz!!!!
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Mar 11, 2009 at 07:07 PM Organize classes in Shuls Says:Report as Inappropriate
I think we should start organizing with neighbors classes for the kids in the shuls
20 parents should get a Rebbi for 5000 a month.
each would pay 250 plus a little more to the shul or a similar arrangement.
For english , who needs english.
Our kids are smart enough that if they need it they will be able to take tests and learn what they need very quickly.
For girls could be even less expensive
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Mar 11, 2009 at 08:21 PM esther Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Sorry, I didn't have the patience to read all of the comments carefully. However, I belive a few points were missed.
1. Supporting Israel is NOT our 1st priority. Our own communities and children are our true 1st priority. Supporting Israel (the people not the government) is secondary.
2. Vouchers are unconstitutional as they violate the separation of church and State.
3. Those who lambasted and attacked Rubashkin, rather than helping him (at least morally), are partially to blame for the current shortage of Kosher chicken and meat, which has resulted in severe price hikes.
4. The ONLY solution to the charedi shidduch crisis (as opposed to the Modern Orthodox one) is to get boys and girls to date people of the same age exclusively.
5. There are other problems facing our communities of at least equal importance. These include, the kids-at-risk crisis, the current tragic system of nepotism that reigns in our yeshivos, which has brought undeserving individuals to positions of extreme influence and has torn great mosdos haTorah apart due to infighting and our failue to properly address the issues related to Internet usage and modern technology. ”
dovy,i'm sure your constitutional scholar credentials are very impressive.vouchers however would solve separation of ...... the real problem is the teachers unions.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 08:19 PM the truth Says:Report as Inappropriate
all of these issues spawn from the dying of the torah im derech eretz hashkufuh.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 08:17 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Uh, in fact, Shmuel, there ARE easy solutions.
First, take the schools out of the hands of the Erev Rav administrators and put it BACK into the hands of the parents. If this is impossible, then the parents should organize, create, and maintain their own schools.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 08:22 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Stop the sonbia Rykel and Burberry clothing on tots to teens and all the other fancy stuff that comes along with it. And certainly don't try to bargain on tuition if you're spending that kind of money on clothing
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Mar 11, 2009 at 07:25 PM mike Says:Report as Inappropriate
if all of us bdi eved jews would move to where we should be living (Israel) even though there is no shortage of problems there, I think many of these problems would not exist. Tuition is free, Israelis dont make 100,000 dollar weddings and bar mitzvahs, and live a much less stressful lifestyle. We are getting what we deserve for living here. Its too bad that only a huge rise in anti-semitism would be the only thing that will get 99% of New Yorkers to move to Israel. Hashem is surely watching and crying... Stop feeling sorry for yourselves.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 09:26 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I said it once, and I'll say it again and again. It has ALWAYS been expensive to live as an Orthodox Jew, and it is YOUR own fault. Who is the YOU I'm referring to? The upper middle class of orthodox Jews who were enabled to set the standard of what was the right way for all of us to live. Big school buildings with marble floors, camps with horses and air conditioning and ice cream shops, clothing with ridiculous labels, vacations to Bermuda for four year olds-the ante was upped about 20 years ago, causing a great deal of hardship for many people. NOW that the wealthier among us are feeling what the rest of us have felt for so many years, only now, is it a problem! It was a problem when YOU started it-when you oohed and aahed about the weddings that could have paid for tuition for 10 children, wasting money on narishkeit. Now, you're complaining, but you did it to yourselves, and truthfully, I'm gloating a little to see you squirm. If you had not upped the ante so much, and cause people to defer to you, I might feel differently, but you really did it to yourselves; you can't keep up with your own values, and I think it's a valuable lesson for you to see what it feels like. Do I sound like I have sour grapes? I don't. If you were suffering, but didn't want for so much, I'd really sympathize, but your sense of entitelment is huge, you've passed that on to your children, and now we're all in a mess.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 10:34 PM Dovid Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ I said it once, and I'll say it again and again. It has ALWAYS been expensive to live as an Orthodox Jew, and it is YOUR own fault. Who is the YOU I'm referring to? The upper middle class of orthodox Jews who were enabled to set the standard of what was the right way for all of us to live. Big school buildings with marble floors, camps with horses and air conditioning and ice cream shops, clothing with ridiculous labels, vacations to Bermuda for four year olds-the ante was upped about 20 years ago, causing a great deal of hardship for many people. NOW that the wealthier among us are feeling what the rest of us have felt for so many years, only now, is it a problem! It was a problem when YOU started it-when you oohed and aahed about the weddings that could have paid for tuition for 10 children, wasting money on narishkeit. Now, you're complaining, but you did it to yourselves, and truthfully, I'm gloating a little to see you squirm. If you had not upped the ante so much, and cause people to defer to you, I might feel differently, but you really did it to yourselves; you can't keep up with your own values, and I think it's a valuable lesson for you to see what it feels like. Do I sound like I have sour grapes? I don't. If you were suffering, but didn't want for so much, I'd really sympathize, but your sense of entitelment is huge, you've passed that on to your children, and now we're all in a mess. ”
They earned it and they can spend it any way they want. The problem is those who don't earn and still want to spend.
71
Mar 11, 2009 at 08:53 PM shmuly bo-tox Says:Report as Inappropriate
Lonely? There's plenty of comfort in Yiddishe numbers - unless you live in the farshtunkene world inhabited by Boteach and his ilk.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 08:51 PM shmully observer Says:Report as Inappropriate
Shmully,
You have unfortunately immersed yourself in the modern-orthodox world and worse.You write like a gentile. You have lost your moorings - your yiddishe hartz and hergesh. Phuy.
Go hang out with your friends at the Kabbalah Center and kvetch to them. We don't need to read your "keeping-yourself-relevant-by -writing-self-serving-pr" articles.
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Mar 11, 2009 at 11:23 PM Charlie Hall Says:Report as Inappropriate
Vegetarian kosher restaurants can offer a good deal, especially when they market themselves aggressively to non-Jews. For example, in Manhattan there are now seven kosher Indian vegetarian restaurants -- it seems like every Indian vegetarian restaurant has to get a hechsher to stay in business! But even so, they cost no more than their non-kosher counterparts: I just went online and compared prices at Madras Mahal and Pongal, both kosher restaurants, to Curry Leaf, a non-kosher restaurant across the street from the two kosher restaurants. Vegetarian entrees at the two kosher restaurants are $9.95 while the identical entrees at the non-kosher restaurant cost $10.95!
75
Mar 12, 2009 at 01:23 AM Getting a Skill Set Is Al-Pi-Torah Says:Report as Inappropriate
Rabosi,
There are institutions such as Touro Colege that allowed many Satmar Chasidim (yes, Satmar Chasidim) from Monroe and Sqever Chasidim from Sqver Town, and Belzer Chasidim from BP, to earn their accounting degrees, through hard work and sweat. Many have become CPAs, accountants, and even actuaries for insurance companies. And they earn respectable livelihoods for their families.
Yet, the Yeshivishe Olam talks negatively about Touro College, even though they have divisions where Men and Women study in different buildings, with no "apikorses" taught, only the subject matter. On the contrary, some of the professors, are also Talmidei Chachmim.
Didn’t the Chazal say: ? טוב תורה עם דרך ארץ
Bochrim come out of Yeshivos with no direction or goals. Not everyone can become a Reb Akiva Eiger.
How many families will later on become destroyed because of this lack of responsibility???
וכל מי שאינו מלמד את בנו אומנות כאילו מלמדו לסטות!!
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Mar 11, 2009 at 11:57 PM matzahlocal101 Says:Report as Inappropriate
I will confess that I skipped most of the comments. That aside, did Shmuely recently author another book entitled "Kosher Hallicigens"? or did I miss something? When I first read these rantings, I was sure such a G-dless attack on Jewish values was the work of "Rabbi" Chananiah Weissman. But I see that Shmuely has also veered from the path. First off, Shmuely, please do Chabad a favor and stop associating your name with the organization, being that you've abandoned it's values. Secondly a little intelligence needs to be put in play here. People that have 12 children and are in dire financial straights shouldl not be eating in restaurants. The solution is telling them to stay home, not telling kosher restaurants to cut their already slim profits, due to the agri induced meat shortage, by 50%. Next, stop assuming that your supposed to work a four day work week and have six figures in the bank. Think back to generations past that didn't have bread to eat and appreciate that living in America in the worst financial straights, leaves you ahead of 85% of the people on the face of the earth. How about showing a little gratitude to Hashem for what we have instead of what we don't. Remember, "I was sad I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet."
The modern orthodox YU shidduch crisis does not exist in Satmar, Viznitz, Skverr, Pupa, Bobov, etc. In those communities, girls are taught that a talmid chochum and a yaray shamayim are important, boys are taught a girl should be a bas talmid chochum with midos toivos, they say tehillim that should find their zivug nuchon and... it happens at 18, 19, 20. Modern orthodox watch TV and go to movies and see 80,000 members of the opposite sex by the time their 18 and they are taught that good looks (by goyisheh definition) are important, and midos are nice too if they come along. The fact that MO marriage statistics mirror the goyisheh marriage stats is the biggest testimony to the failure of MO. A persons zivug is announced in heaven 40 days before conception. The frum supermodel that your waiting for doesn't exist. But because such people have been educated by Goyish culture they retain goyish values and try to figure out how build a bayis ne'eman on a goyish foundation.
77
Mar 12, 2009 at 07:50 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Boteach, like everybody else, has outlined the problems without offering practical solutions. Much as I believe vouchers should be allowed etc etc, the fact of the matter is that it is not exactly the likeliest possibility; we need a better solution in the (extraordinarily likely) event that school vouchers don't happen (not to mention that even if they did happen, it would be a state-by-state situation, so those yidden living in states that did not allow them would be left out).
The only solution in terms of kosher food would be to somehow get the food companies to live with a smaller profit margin (which no one would do unless there was a way to force it), and even then, the cost of mashgichim, shochtim etc would still make the price higher that regular food. There is simply no way around that, and asking the goyim to pity our situation and go kosher is like trying to catch a fish in the air.
As for kosher restaurants, those are a luxury; they can be as expensive as they like, and if you can afford to eat out 3 times, gezinte hei, if not, save it for birthdays and anniversaries.
Shidduch crisis? Depends on what community you're from. In more MO communities, people are just dating on their own, going out with every "cool" person they meet, not tackling serious questions until it gets serious, then people get hurt, and can't date again until after they recover; the MO dating scene could afford to take some lessons from the world of shadchanus. That being said, the shidduch system has its own problems. Too much dirt-digging and question-asking leads to 2 disastrous consequences- inability to find a spouse, because every potential is rejected for some superficial and stupid reason, and higher divorce rates (this is because by making "compatibility" rely on too many factors, we send our children the message that perfection in a spouse is attainable, and then their spouse's imperfection slaps them hard in the face after the wedding. This can only lead to bad results). Furthermore, men who work need to be respected and not treated as somehow deficient; additionally, a man who wants to learn in kollel should marry someone who likewise wants to sacrifice for Torah regardless of her parents' bank account. If he really, truly, loves Torah and wants to be moser like he says, then he will marry the woman appropriate for him to help him attain gadlus b'Torah, and if his shver can't support him, he will deal with a lower standard of living, plain and simple.
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Mar 12, 2009 at 08:09 AM imalitvak Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Its not a Jewish problem!! Its a Litvisheh problem!! Wont go into details but there's alot behind my words
”
sorry, sweetie, but its both litvish and chassidishe. you go to any of the more modern communities out of town, and even in the tri state ares on chol hamoed, and most of them do not wear teffillin, so they are chassidish famililes, that went modern. the litvish yeshivas, the hard core litvish yeshivas also never turn a kid down due to money.
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Mar 12, 2009 at 08:41 AM Talmid Torah Says:Report as Inappropriate
As a Jewish community, there should be a fund, similiar to the free Birthright trip, defraying the cost of day school or any type of Jewish education from K- 12th grades. Without universal Jewish education, assimilation will continue at high rates of 50-60% intermarriage and we will continue losing more and more Yidden.
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Mar 12, 2009 at 09:03 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ As a Jewish community, there should be a fund, similiar to the free Birthright trip, defraying the cost of day school or any type of Jewish education from K- 12th grades. Without universal Jewish education, assimilation will continue at high rates of 50-60% intermarriage and we will continue losing more and more Yidden. ”
That would be great. Where is the money for this fund going to come from? Education from k-12 costs a lot more than a trip.
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Mar 12, 2009 at 10:00 AM right.... Says:Report as Inappropriate
"She grew up secular and later became Jewish"
something about that sentence is wrong.
Tefillin might cost a lot but a 65" flatscreen TV with Bose surround sound speakers is alot more. please don't say that most honkeys have them hidden behind their gemoros....
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Mar 12, 2009 at 11:55 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ You are 100% "Dead On" correct.
Also, matches via shidduch are with men and women not avoiding commitment. They want to get married.
The really chassidishe marriages like Satmar and those similar, are based upon similar cultures, values, and personalities matched by those who know them the best.
Their LOVE grows from working together to build a home and family. They wind up GROWING in Love, instead of Falling in Love.
Their marriages have a VERY high success rate, and very high happiness rate.
I visited Kiryas Joel, the Satmar city in Monroe, 3 years ago. All I found were VERY HAPPY PEOPLE. I met some of the most wonderfully happy, calm, satisfied people. They were kind, welcoming, and pleasant. I left feeling envy. Those who mock them are foolish. They are doing something right.
And, they were VERY willing to talk and share their feelings and thoughts, in friendly, outgoing ways. ”
Yeah and you don't know about the many couples where a partner is being abusive, or where they want to get divorced but can't because in the Chassidish world getting divorced is very Taboo and is a big shanda especially by the woman!
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Mar 12, 2009 at 01:10 PM Thank you to Kiryas Joel Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Yeah and you don't know about the many couples where a partner is being abusive, or where they want to get divorced but can't because in the Chassidish world getting divorced is very Taboo and is a big shanda especially by the woman! ”
Abuse, unfortunately, is all too prevalent in ALL communities. Jewish, and non-Jewish. Frum, and non-Frum. American and non-American.
But you hear about abuse in the Chassidishe world because it is shocking. But it is far LESS prevalent there than in other cultures.
Visit them. Get to know them. You will see that there are many misunderstandings about those Satmar-type of communities. They are in the vast majority VERY GOOD kind people. The bad apples stand out from the crowd, and are a very small minority among them.
Meanwhile, getting divorced SHOULD be a shanda in all of our communities. Though there are a few cases where it is unavoidable, most of the time is is the failure of the participants to put one's partners' needs ahead of one's own.
Unhappy marriages are usually the results of not getting it about the couple thing, and thinking the husband/wife is there to make YOU happy, instead of thinking YOU are there to make him/her happy. With the exceptions of being married to an exceptional case, divorce means WE failed.
The proof of this is that almost every divorced person, male or female, I know blames the other for the failure of the marriage. As soon as I hear that, I know the one I am listening to is at least 50% of the fault...
The one least at fault, is the one who knows where he/she failed, and is not blaming the other.
As far as abuse is concerned, that IS certainly a problem. Too many men are victims of their wives' abuse. Too many of us, yes I AM A WOMAN, victimize our husbands with our mouths. We act shrewish. We are overly demanding. We tend to be spoiled rotten. We expect everything our way. We are manipulative. And, we get verbally abusive when we don't get our way.
I used to believe my husband, sheyishye, was the abusive one. I was the victim. Everything was HIS fault. I was ready to ask him for a get.
Then, an aunt of mine, a Satmar lady in Kiryas Joel, who knows me well, insisted that I go for therapy. Oh, she did not tell me I needed it.... I would have told her to buzz off. She told me that going for therapy would give me the strength to deal with my upcoming get/divorce. She made me to to a female counselor in KJ.
But, in therapy, I discovered what *I* was doing wrong.
I worked hard as fixing me, and did not ask my hubby to change a thing.
I started showing him the love he deserved.
I curbed my sharp tongue.
I worked hard at making HIM happy.
Then, a miracle happened. A true Neis Min HaShomayim! ..... He completely changed. He became the very best husband in the world. He became a great provider. He became an amazing father to our kids. He developed a wonderful sense of humor. He became much more handsome. He developed so much patience that it amazed me. He became a tender hearted person. He became a generous man. He became a talmid chochom.
I could not believe the changes in him. All due to my changing. I never asked him to change anything. I fell in love with him all over again... or actually for the first time.
Then, I suddenly realized!!!!!
He changed NOTHING. That was him all along. I was too self-centered before to see who HE was. In the past, I could not see the wonderful man I was married to, because I was too hung up on being right, getting my way, and having MY needs met.
One night, about a year ago, he told me I was the most wonderful wife in the world. I cried with happiness. I knew that I was a truly awful wife to him in the past. He never threw up my old behavior in my face, only complimented me on who I am.
I am truly lucky.
84
Mar 12, 2009 at 02:15 PM Home Schooling - The OLD CHEDER Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Abuse, unfortunately, is all too prevalent in ALL communities. Jewish, and non-Jewish. Frum, and non-Frum. American and non-American.
But you hear about abuse in the Chassidishe world because it is shocking. But it is far LESS prevalent there than in other cultures.
Visit them. Get to know them. You will see that there are many misunderstandings about those Satmar-type of communities. They are in the vast majority VERY GOOD kind people. The bad apples stand out from the crowd, and are a very small minority among them.
Meanwhile, getting divorced SHOULD be a shanda in all of our communities. Though there are a few cases where it is unavoidable, most of the time is is the failure of the participants to put one's partners' needs ahead of one's own.
Unhappy marriages are usually the results of not getting it about the couple thing, and thinking the husband/wife is there to make YOU happy, instead of thinking YOU are there to make him/her happy. With the exceptions of being married to an exceptional case, divorce means WE failed.
The proof of this is that almost every divorced person, male or female, I know blames the other for the failure of the marriage. As soon as I hear that, I know the one I am listening to is at least 50% of the fault...
The one least at fault, is the one who knows where he/she failed, and is not blaming the other.
As far as abuse is concerned, that IS certainly a problem. Too many men are victims of their wives' abuse. Too many of us, yes I AM A WOMAN, victimize our husbands with our mouths. We act shrewish. We are overly demanding. We tend to be spoiled rotten. We expect everything our way. We are manipulative. And, we get verbally abusive when we don't get our way.
I used to believe my husband, sheyishye, was the abusive one. I was the victim. Everything was HIS fault. I was ready to ask him for a get.
Then, an aunt of mine, a Satmar lady in Kiryas Joel, who knows me well, insisted that I go for therapy. Oh, she did not tell me I needed it.... I would have told her to buzz off. She told me that going for therapy would give me the strength to deal with my upcoming get/divorce. She made me to to a female counselor in KJ.
But, in therapy, I discovered what *I* was doing wrong.
I worked hard as fixing me, and did not ask my hubby to change a thing.
I started showing him the love he deserved.
I curbed my sharp tongue.
I worked hard at making HIM happy.
Then, a miracle happened. A true Neis Min HaShomayim! ..... He completely changed. He became the very best husband in the world. He became a great provider. He became an amazing father to our kids. He developed a wonderful sense of humor. He became much more handsome. He developed so much patience that it amazed me. He became a tender hearted person. He became a generous man. He became a talmid chochom.
I could not believe the changes in him. All due to my changing. I never asked him to change anything. I fell in love with him all over again... or actually for the first time.
Then, I suddenly realized!!!!!
He changed NOTHING. That was him all along. I was too self-centered before to see who HE was. In the past, I could not see the wonderful man I was married to, because I was too hung up on being right, getting my way, and having MY needs met.
One night, about a year ago, he told me I was the most wonderful wife in the world. I cried with happiness. I knew that I was a truly awful wife to him in the past. He never threw up my old behavior in my face, only complimented me on who I am.
I am truly lucky. ”
The standard system of Yeshivos and Girl Schools are not only ripping off sky high prices but much more importantly they are largely ineffective and and at the very least extremely inefficient.
When the average person thinks of "home schooling" he thinks he has no time for that.
This is not true because if you try to tutor your own child you will find out very quickly that you can teach your own child in ONE HOUR much more than what he learns in school all day long and that is because of the extreme inefficiency built in to 99.99% of all schools.
Try it with your child in yeshiva, right now, when he come home from school, try to teach him for just one hour and you will see that you can pump in more than he gets all day in school.
So if you can spare one hour of teaching a day, you can do a better job home schooling than the Yeshiva does all day at rip off prices.
There are many reason why home schooling works so well and just one of the reason is because as a parent you really care very deeply about your child and you love him/her more than anyone else in the world.
This love and devotion in teaching is something completely lacking in large classrooms where the exact opposite is often true, especially if your child has special needs are needs more attention or has any difficulty learning, then your one hour a day of teaching can go a lot further than what he learns in school all week!
85
Mar 12, 2009 at 01:52 PM To Kirayas Yoel Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Abuse, unfortunately, is all too prevalent in ALL communities. Jewish, and non-Jewish. Frum, and non-Frum. American and non-American.
But you hear about abuse in the Chassidishe world because it is shocking. But it is far LESS prevalent there than in other cultures.
Visit them. Get to know them. You will see that there are many misunderstandings about those Satmar-type of communities. They are in the vast majority VERY GOOD kind people. The bad apples stand out from the crowd, and are a very small minority among them.
Meanwhile, getting divorced SHOULD be a shanda in all of our communities. Though there are a few cases where it is unavoidable, most of the time is is the failure of the participants to put one's partners' needs ahead of one's own.
Unhappy marriages are usually the results of not getting it about the couple thing, and thinking the husband/wife is there to make YOU happy, instead of thinking YOU are there to make him/her happy. With the exceptions of being married to an exceptional case, divorce means WE failed.
The proof of this is that almost every divorced person, male or female, I know blames the other for the failure of the marriage. As soon as I hear that, I know the one I am listening to is at least 50% of the fault...
The one least at fault, is the one who knows where he/she failed, and is not blaming the other.
As far as abuse is concerned, that IS certainly a problem. Too many men are victims of their wives' abuse. Too many of us, yes I AM A WOMAN, victimize our husbands with our mouths. We act shrewish. We are overly demanding. We tend to be spoiled rotten. We expect everything our way. We are manipulative. And, we get verbally abusive when we don't get our way.
I used to believe my husband, sheyishye, was the abusive one. I was the victim. Everything was HIS fault. I was ready to ask him for a get.
Then, an aunt of mine, a Satmar lady in Kiryas Joel, who knows me well, insisted that I go for therapy. Oh, she did not tell me I needed it.... I would have told her to buzz off. She told me that going for therapy would give me the strength to deal with my upcoming get/divorce. She made me to to a female counselor in KJ.
But, in therapy, I discovered what *I* was doing wrong.
I worked hard as fixing me, and did not ask my hubby to change a thing.
I started showing him the love he deserved.
I curbed my sharp tongue.
I worked hard at making HIM happy.
Then, a miracle happened. A true Neis Min HaShomayim! ..... He completely changed. He became the very best husband in the world. He became a great provider. He became an amazing father to our kids. He developed a wonderful sense of humor. He became much more handsome. He developed so much patience that it amazed me. He became a tender hearted person. He became a generous man. He became a talmid chochom.
I could not believe the changes in him. All due to my changing. I never asked him to change anything. I fell in love with him all over again... or actually for the first time.
Then, I suddenly realized!!!!!
He changed NOTHING. That was him all along. I was too self-centered before to see who HE was. In the past, I could not see the wonderful man I was married to, because I was too hung up on being right, getting my way, and having MY needs met.
One night, about a year ago, he told me I was the most wonderful wife in the world. I cried with happiness. I knew that I was a truly awful wife to him in the past. He never threw up my old behavior in my face, only complimented me on who I am.
I am truly lucky. ”
Your story is truly inspiring and I admire you for your role and job very well done.
I am sure you must agree that your therapist was very instrumental in helping you to see things in the true light.
I think you would do a great service to all Yidden to share with us the name of this exceptional frum therapist.
Not all therapists are as wise as the the one whom your were zoche to get.
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Mar 12, 2009 at 02:25 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ "or you think New York is the largest city in the Western Hemisphere"
BTW, yes, that's pretty accurate!
So the question is: where were you educated??? ”
By population - try Mexico City
By area - try LosAngeles
I don't know if there are larger, but these are certainly "larger" than New York city.
87
Mar 12, 2009 at 02:20 PM HOMEWORK = Home Schooling Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Abuse, unfortunately, is all too prevalent in ALL communities. Jewish, and non-Jewish. Frum, and non-Frum. American and non-American.
But you hear about abuse in the Chassidishe world because it is shocking. But it is far LESS prevalent there than in other cultures.
Visit them. Get to know them. You will see that there are many misunderstandings about those Satmar-type of communities. They are in the vast majority VERY GOOD kind people. The bad apples stand out from the crowd, and are a very small minority among them.
Meanwhile, getting divorced SHOULD be a shanda in all of our communities. Though there are a few cases where it is unavoidable, most of the time is is the failure of the participants to put one's partners' needs ahead of one's own.
Unhappy marriages are usually the results of not getting it about the couple thing, and thinking the husband/wife is there to make YOU happy, instead of thinking YOU are there to make him/her happy. With the exceptions of being married to an exceptional case, divorce means WE failed.
The proof of this is that almost every divorced person, male or female, I know blames the other for the failure of the marriage. As soon as I hear that, I know the one I am listening to is at least 50% of the fault...
The one least at fault, is the one who knows where he/she failed, and is not blaming the other.
As far as abuse is concerned, that IS certainly a problem. Too many men are victims of their wives' abuse. Too many of us, yes I AM A WOMAN, victimize our husbands with our mouths. We act shrewish. We are overly demanding. We tend to be spoiled rotten. We expect everything our way. We are manipulative. And, we get verbally abusive when we don't get our way.
I used to believe my husband, sheyishye, was the abusive one. I was the victim. Everything was HIS fault. I was ready to ask him for a get.
Then, an aunt of mine, a Satmar lady in Kiryas Joel, who knows me well, insisted that I go for therapy. Oh, she did not tell me I needed it.... I would have told her to buzz off. She told me that going for therapy would give me the strength to deal with my upcoming get/divorce. She made me to to a female counselor in KJ.
But, in therapy, I discovered what *I* was doing wrong.
I worked hard as fixing me, and did not ask my hubby to change a thing.
I started showing him the love he deserved.
I curbed my sharp tongue.
I worked hard at making HIM happy.
Then, a miracle happened. A true Neis Min HaShomayim! ..... He completely changed. He became the very best husband in the world. He became a great provider. He became an amazing father to our kids. He developed a wonderful sense of humor. He became much more handsome. He developed so much patience that it amazed me. He became a tender hearted person. He became a generous man. He became a talmid chochom.
I could not believe the changes in him. All due to my changing. I never asked him to change anything. I fell in love with him all over again... or actually for the first time.
Then, I suddenly realized!!!!!
He changed NOTHING. That was him all along. I was too self-centered before to see who HE was. In the past, I could not see the wonderful man I was married to, because I was too hung up on being right, getting my way, and having MY needs met.
One night, about a year ago, he told me I was the most wonderful wife in the world. I cried with happiness. I knew that I was a truly awful wife to him in the past. He never threw up my old behavior in my face, only complimented me on who I am.
I am truly lucky. ”
Thinking of home schooling and think it's impossible?
Think again.
Without realizing it, you are already doing home schooling when you do your homework with your child.
Many parents especially those with children who don't do so well in school and need an additional tutor, find out very quickly that "home work" is not a supplement to school.
Homework very often is the primary vehicle of what children learn all day and the school is just an image of the learning institution but the actual learning already takes place primarily at home.
All children who do home work do much more learning at home than in school. Why pay the schools top dollar when they don't teach. We the parents teach the children with home work and private tutors while the schools get paid for doing virtually nothing, while we do all the hard work without getting paid.
88
Mar 12, 2009 at 03:28 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ "or you think New York is the largest city in the Western Hemisphere"
BTW, yes, that's pretty accurate!
So the question is: where were you educated??? ”
The TWO largest cities in the Western Hemisphere are:
San Paulo, Brazil
and
Mexico City, Mexico
89
Mar 12, 2009 at 08:50 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ They earned it and they can spend it any way they want. The problem is those who don't earn and still want to spend. ”
I'm not at all referring to those who try to keep up with the joneses. I'm talking about having to spend my money on things that I don't care about (like marble floors in a school) that the upper middle class has dictated is the right way to live. That's not my value system-why should I have to contribute to theirs?
90
Mar 13, 2009 at 12:43 AM Leibel Says:Report as Inappropriate
The cost of kosher food: 1. If Rav Moshe made it clear not to spend extra for Cholov Yisroel in America, why do people still waste money on it? 2. If the Rema says we need only stam kosher, why do people waste money on glatt when it is only a requirement for Sefardim?
The cost of tuition and shuls: 3. Who runs the yeshivas? The rich people. If the poor people would get on the boards it would be more fair. 4. Shuls expanding up and down and left and right when they then have to charge extra for membership and building fees in this economy is the ultimate chutspa. 5. The rabbis in the modern communities are getting $200,000 a year in salary and pay no tuition for their kids. They are out of touch with their kehillos.
The shidduch issue. 6. Get a job, yungerleit! If the Chofetz Chaim could run a grocery store, you can work a little also. Too much of the yeshivishe velt is leeching off others and not contributing financially.
My biggest fear is the problem of mothers who work while the father learns (or works). Who is raising our children? The Jamaican nanny? Our children's new second language is not Yiddish or Hebrew, it is Creole or Spanish, because that is what they hear all day from the people who are taking care of them. That is the biggest problem!
91
Mar 13, 2009 at 12:26 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ "or you think New York is the largest city in the Western Hemisphere"
BTW, yes, that's pretty accurate!
So the question is: where were you educated??? ”
Actually, Mexico City is the biggest.
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Mar 13, 2009 at 12:08 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
i love how he blames the women! we should get on with our lives and study! i know so many fine and attractive girls who have masters degrees and even doctorates! and they are still single. why? because the shadchanim say men find an educated woman intimidating and the women should lie about their accomplishments to make the men feel better. please. how can anyone take boteach seriously? he is a ham always looking for media attention. VIN shouldnt even dignify his absurd and impractical comments byposting them here. he never has anything concrete to say to solve problems, just likes to rehash the issues we already know about. Yuck!
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Mar 13, 2009 at 03:11 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
I am tired of reading and listening to all of you complain and whine!! My child needed tutoring -- I got her tutoring-- we did without for whatever length of time it was, we managed, she did o.k!! I sat and helped her with her homework and she did alright!! What does it take to help a child with some homework?? A little time?? Are you all too lazy to help your children that you would rather see them fail?? What is wrong with you?? You have time to go out for a slice of pizza but no time to help your kids!!!That same half hour would have done a lot of good helping your child and then taking your child for the slice of pizza!!
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May 24, 2009 at 11:47 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
This is ridiculous. Yeshiva tuition is NOT the problem. It's the insistence that MO jews with kids in Yeshiva have to live in big houses. I was one of the few kids in my yeshiva day school class who grew up in a rented apartment, and I was ashamed. My parents felt they couldn't afford a home and yeshiva tuition. The attitude in the MO community towards people who reveal that they don't have the money to buy a ridiculously expensive home is one of disapproval and ridicule. As a friend of mine said recently - living in a rented apartment with kids who go to Yeshiva "just isn't done". You have to be rich to be MO. To afford the home and all the attendant expenses, tuition, camp, etc. in the NY metro area, you have to be pulling in at least $250,000.00 per year. If you don't, then I guess you're just considered to be irrelevant. MO jews don't worship G-d, they worship money. I am completely disgusted by this situation.