New York – Husbands Who Use ‘Hashem’ And Religion As An Excuse To Abuse

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    New York – Broken bones and black-and-blue marks on the skin are not the only signs of abuse by a husband against his wife; instead, the blows could be delivered to her psyche and soul, leaving no physical marks. But they hurt nevertheless – and perhaps more than if she had been beaten with fists.

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    While physical, emotional, economic, sexual and verbal abuse and the limitation of personal freedom are known to be common methods of spousal mistreatment, a phenomenon has been identified recently within the Haredi community that uses God and faith as weapons.

    Dr. Nicole Dahan, a social worker at the Ariel University Center in Samaria, and Tzipi Levy, a social worker in the Jerusalem Municipality, have been among the first to identify the phenomenon of “spiritual abuse” in Israel.

    Cruelty to women, children and the elderly in the religious Jewish community was long denied, on the grounds that the Torah and Talmud forbid it, and that it is common in the secular camp.

    Two decades ago, no one in the Orthodox community would dream of speaking openly about violence in the religious family, just as psychiatric illnesses, mental retardation and various other problems have long been unmentionable due to concern that revelation could harm the family’s chances for shidduchim. However, hiding the existence of abuse in the family lends legitimacy to these phenomena.

    The claim that all’s well in the Orthodox community has been disproven by a string of horrendous cases of child abuse reported in Israel after arrests were made and shelters for battered women in Orthodox neighborhoods have been opened – even with rabbinic approval. The Torah-observant sector can no longer keep its “dirty laundry” hidden in the closet, and it has begun to get a public airing.

    Obviously, most religious Jewish men are good or excellent husbands and fathers. The two observant social workers in Israel say they cannot estimate how common spiritual abuse against wives is, as no data has yet been assembled. But Orthodox women in Jerusalem are finally speaking about it, and those who seek to escape spousal abuse with help from city services are now being screened for spiritual abuse as well, thanks to Levy’s efforts.

    Such spiritual abuse, they suggest, occurs solely in observant communities, mostly the ultra-Orthodox. Israeli Haredi men who spend all their time in a kollel (yeshiva for married men) and have a very low level of secular education may become jealous of their wives, who generally have to work outside the home and support their large families. A growing number of Orthodox wives attend vocational courses and colleges, earn degrees and work in advanced fields such as computers and even engineering. This can lead to anger and resentment – and abuse by their husbands.

    As an example, Levy describes an Orthodox man who told all the relatives invited to his daughter’s bat mitzva that his wife was “crazy” and proceeded to bad-mouth her even though this is strictly forbidden by Halacha.

    After running workshops for secular abused women in northern Jerusalem, she began to organize them for Orthodox women, who met regularly for a year-and-a-half and poured out their hearts about their suffering. Some told stories about husbands who denigrated their prayers. “One husband told his wife that her praying was a ‘waste of time,’ that ‘God doesn’t listen’ to her prayers and that there was ‘no value’ to her supplications,” Levy recalls. One woman said her husband screamed at her in the middle of the night when she got out of bed “immodestly” in her bare feet to nurse her crying newborn.

    Another example of spiritual abuse was a woman who very much wanted to observe the commandment of “separating halla” – a commandment given especially to women. The moment of separating the dough and reciting a special blessing is viewed as an especially propitious moment for praying for one’s loved ones. Performing the commandment is regarded as a plea to God to protect the woman from sorrow and pain and a way to be blessed by an easy, safe birth and a good livelihood.

    But a husband belittled his wife for “wasting money on flour” and “making a mess on Friday afternoons” when she should have been cooking for Shabbat. Declaring that it was cheaper to buy readymade halla, the husband ordered a child to go to the nearest grocery and buy loaves.

    Levy recounts the wife’s pained recollection: “He whispered to me: ‘When I say the kiddush [blessing on the wine], I will not include you!’” The woman was thus forced to eat without the required inclusion in this blessing that begins the Shabbat meal. Instead of saying a blessing on the homemade halla, he did so on the store-bought bread.

    This article is an excerpt from Mind, Body and Soul a mental health magazine, a collaboration of Nefesh International and the Jewish Press in this weeks Jewish Press on Newsstands now.

    Another technique of spiritual abuse that Levy heard about was when a husband brings bread into rooms that the wife has already meticulously cleaned before Pesach. He is thus able to control his wife by using their religion.

    This type of abuse is not a one-time occurrence; rather, it involves repeated attempts to batter the wife’s spirituality, says Levy, who interviewed numerous victims who feel shame, guilt and lack of worth due to spiritual abuse. “The more seriously the woman takes religion, the harder it is for her. Thus secular women are not victims, and it is apparently less frequent in modern Orthodox families in which women have more autonomy and have combined their religious education with secular studies.”

    Dahan adds that spiritual abuse can cause even more damage than physical abuse, and that it is more destructive in Haredi homes, where Jewish law has such a supreme role in day-to-day life. Could spiritual abuse be perpetrated by wives on their husbands? It could be, said Dahan, but it has not been documented.

    The university lecturer in social work stresses that “therapists have to be very careful not to label everything immediately as spiritual abuse. There’s a thin line between a woman serving or listening to her husband and being punished by him.”

    Of course, wearing black garb and a certain kind of hat does not mean that a man who appears to be Haredi is actually observant. He may just be a secular atheist but hiding within the “disguise” he has worn since childhood in an observant family – or he may be mentally disturbed.

    Not all rabbis are enlightened enough to recognize spiritual abuse of women by their husbands. Despite a woman’s complaints, a rabbi may justify the behavior of the husband, saying that “a Jewish woman must do exactly what her husband says.” He may even quote the Talmud to back the man’s arguments and help him control her.

    It is not clear whether spiritual abuse is more common in the hassidic community or the Lithuanian (mitnaged) sector. But the fact that a hassid is devoted to his Rebbe may provide him with a legitimate “excuse” to get out of the house and neglect his responsibilities. Hassidic wives have complained to the social workers that their husbands refused to cooperate while they underwent painful and time-specific fertility treatments because they had to go instead to the Admor’s tisch.

    Levy notes that Jerusalem social workers and mental health professionals have accepted their description of spiritual abuse and now screen Haredi women who come for help. “There are all kinds of problems that a non-religious therapist wouldn’t understand or identify. But there are observant therapists who have asked me whether it’s a desecration of God’s name if they investigate
    accusations of spiritual abuse. I reply that it is a consecration of God’s name to identify such acts and treat victims.”

    The social workers are rather vague about the proven treatment to help the husband stop using spiritual abuse. “I am sure that some things have to be changed in the education of Israeli Orthodox girls,” suggests Dahan. “Many are naïve. They may need to get a feeling of empowerment so they can choose a husband carefully and detect signs of potential abusers. Once they are spiritually abused, women feel shame, guilt and a lack of self-worth – even though they are the victim – and have difficulty complaining about their husbands,” she says.

    “We must give Orthodox women the choice of whether to be a victim or not,” adds Levy. “Problems often appear in childhood. We have to help the victim identify the problem. Men will be willing to change if doing so doesn’t cost them more than they gain. But sometimes, if there is no hope, they can suggest divorce.”

    This is an excerpt from “Mind, Body and Soul” a mental health magazine, a collaboration of Nefesh International and the Jewish Press in this weeks Jewish Press on Newsstands now.

    Judy Siegel-Itzkovich is the health and science correspondent for the Jerusalem Post. Nearly 25,000 of her articles (news stories, features and columns) have been published in the Jerusalem Post since 1973. Judy has been the Israel medical news correspondent for the British Medical Journal (BMJ) since 1990. She was a final candidate for the Sokolov Prize, Israel’s top journalism award, in 2008.


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    88 Comments
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    anon
    anon
    15 years ago

    In a certain chassidic sect they officially dont have relations with there wife except for every other shabbos even if the wife is crying for more. They do not tell them this before they get married because otherwise they would have a hard time doing a Shidduch. I have a close friend who fell into such a marraige and her husbands rav backs him up It is definitley abuse and thank you VIN for bringing this issue out from under the carpet.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    The kinds of people who use religious issues to emotionally abuse their spouses or family members also use other issues. This has nothing really to do with religion. These people are psychiatrically disturbed. A TRULY religious Jewish person cannot really be abusive. The two are mutually exclusive.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    heartbreaking

    bb
    bb
    15 years ago

    this artical is full of “apikorsos”. I cand uderstand telling to wife not to go around with out socks is “spirital abuse”? ..
    plus not going to the federal . is called hiding a problam. & going to them is not mesira ?
    #2 I would like to know if they are making money on the hour. looks like they are.. because they took a side whrer to stick.
    #3 is anybody updated with a org. for men about spirital abuse ?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Exactly. The yeshiva system accentuates the selfishness of some and the generosity of others. Problem with leaving a marriage is that the shanah rishonah is usually one of pregnancy and by then it is harder to leave and the woman is trapped.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    This is another attack to paint the religous and chariedi community as laid back and bad. This has the undertone of somone with an agenda, not a problem.

    chatskal
    chatskal
    15 years ago

    Its schtusim, there is no more abuse percent wise in religious family’s

    A husband
    A husband
    15 years ago

    Total non-sence

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    This article smacks of heresy and the authors deep dislike Haredy Jewry.
    No doubt problems exist amongst them AS THEY DO IN EVERY SECTOR OF HUMAN SOCIETY, but why the hatred?

    Josh
    Josh
    15 years ago

    if u don’t read the the news, u can understand this article, but if u read a little the news in the outside world, u would know, that abuse by the orthodox jews, is child’s-play, compared to the abuse going on in the secular world.
    i’m not saying that there isn’t any abuse, there is, and we try to take care alot, rabbonim are very much involved in such cases.
    b’h we take much care, when we find out of a problem, we take better care than the fed’s.
    of course we have to do much much more, it’s never enough.
    myself i know of so many family’s that need help, i’m a regular citizen, but when i find out of someone or a family that’s in trouble, i alwasy try to talk to the right person who can help. if everyone would do it, we could help many many people.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Shame on you for posting this

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Is this the same professor that claims that being reiligous is a result of being insecure.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    the ones who are getting defensive and denying the problem exists are probably the ones perpetuating it. It is unfortunately a large problem in the ultar-orthodox community today and needs to be dealt with. the deniers are actually helping to prove the authors point. good job folks

    Overbuttal
    Overbuttal
    15 years ago

    This sounds like a bunch of men with Bi-Polor disorder. It’s crazy to blame it on religion. A religious person with a mental disorder will have disorders on things he habitually does daily, and being religious it will center on his daily actions. This is not to say we don’t have Meshugoyim in our mix.
    Also I love when our society focus on the men. What about the women who torment their husbands?

    Babishka
    Member
    Babishka
    15 years ago

    The men described in this article are control freaks and use “religion” in order to assert control. They are no different from the mullahs and the ayatollahs. The guy who screamed at his wife for baking challah and the other guy who brings bread into a room cleaned for Pesach have no YIRAS SHAMAYIM. Their control freak psychosis overrides all halachah and menschlichkeit. They make up their own laws which have nothing to do with actual Torah, and then use this as a weapon to perpetuate control over others.

    Seculars and non-Jews who are control freaks use these identical methods, only instead of “yiddishkeit” they will make bizarre “financial management,” “health” rules, “cruelty to animals,” “environment,” but the primary purpose is for them to have TOTAL CONTROL over other people. The most common method used by a control freak is MONEY. They handle all the money for the family, no one else is allowed to have even a dime of their own, even if they have their own job, all money gets turned over to the CONTROL FREAK.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    THESE MEN ARE EITHER CONTROLLING OR NARCISSISTIC, USING RELIGION IS JUST A TOOL TO EXERT CONTROL AND ABUSE ON THE SPOUSE, IF IT WAS NOT RELIGION IT WOULD BE SOMETHING ELSE.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    It has nothing to do with being “black chareid”. There are men like this in every sector. I know a man who sarcastically calls his wife rebbitzen if she davens and the table and food is not ready on shabbos, because she took the time to daven. If she did the the table and the food and didn’t daven, he puts her down for that too, and says she should have gotten up earlier. She can prepare everything to perfection and she won’t get a thank you because he will still find something she didn’t do to please him. She can’t win, no matter what she does.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    1. Why new york? all these stories happend in israel, There is a huge difference between israeli and american personality,

    2. It has nothing to do with being othordox, or not. secular men use their bad natre against their wives, in other fields, such as how to dress, what to eat, where to go, etc.
    to make this a orthodox problem is unfair.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    There are also some men who hold that they are the ones who have to be totally in charge of everything, from money matters to what’s on the menu because מה שקנה אישה קנה בעלה and therefore he is the boss. Therefore they can oppress their wives because they are sort of like the עבד עברי . And when the women go to the rabbanim for help they are told to respect their husbands more because they are the man of the house and once they treat their husbands like kings, they will see the respect in return. When, oh when will the rabbanim realize that such people are not normal. The more you respect and give to these guys the more abusive they get. It’s like an alchoholic or someone addicted to cigarettes. The more they get the more they need . And someone abused, does not know how to get out of the cycle. And then the women go around feeling guilty that they are the problem and don’t have the guts or the courage to get out.

    anon
    anon
    15 years ago

    this problem exists, noones hiding it. but definitely not to the degree the article portrays it and usually with men or women who have mental problems, but as a whole orthodox marriages even ones with abuse have a lot more positive aspects then any secular marriage.

    batsheva grama
    batsheva grama
    15 years ago

    take it from someone who knows. there are crazy people out there doing things “l’shaim shomayim” when in truth they have all their morals and priorities backwards. there are husbands that can litterally torture their wives just by the words that come out of their mouths and by the way they talk to their wives. h-shem yeracheim…

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    I am familiar with abuse exactly as described in the article. I felt a sense of relief seeing that such an important topic was becoming recognized and addressed. And then I nearly cried reading the comments. For all those that are unaware of such abuse thank G-d that you have been surrounded by a happy life. It hurt terribly to see the author and article being ridiculed when the topic is so true and real. If you haven’t been privy to such a wonderful relationship – good for you! But to laugh it off! How dare you? Where will the abused women who finally see their pain acknowledged go now? Back home to her abusive husband because some ignoramus says “it can’t be, it doesn’t really happen!”

    Balance Reporting
    Balance Reporting
    15 years ago

    I don’t understand. Why do we read only anti-abuse stories. Where are the Pro-Abuse stories. Under the fairness doctrine concepts, we should have opposing views. We should be hearing from abuser, telling us their story why it is GOOD to beat up spouses. Why it is good for them to be black and blue. How it improves them. etc.,

    It is only fair; no?

    Let’s hear from the pro-abuse side. The “Silent Majority”?

    (yes, this is meant in sarcasm …. ?)

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    I have heard the statistic that Jewish women stay an average of 13 years longer in an abusive relationship than non Jewish women (that include frum and non frum). Women need to be empowered to speak out and get support when they need it. In terms of the article, I don’t think that frumkeit causes men to be spiritually abusive, it’s just that in a frum family the abuse may manifest itself in this way, where in a non religious enviroment, it will be related to money or status or other things.

    In terms of solutions, I noticed that Shalom Task force is doing education in seminaries in Israel (I guess for American girls), about what to be looking for while dating, and marriage advice. Is this happening in Yeshivas also? It is important for young people of both genders to address these issues before marriage.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Reply to 24: I understand. The question is why did the Rabbi “assume” the husband was not abusive?
    (a) Not many rabbis are trained to understand abuse;
    (b) Money – I went to a very sympathetic Rabbi. He did NOTHING. Money DOES talk. The Rabbi (as many other Rabbis in town) know the family so well inc. their wealthy status and thus rely on their wealth to survive so how can any Rabbi go against the hand that feeds them.

    Abused men
    Abused men
    15 years ago

    What about a nice article describing the horror stories of Hasids being abused by their wives?

    Stop with your ignorance towards the entire subject.

    I strongly believe given the chance Chasidisha married men will in discretion and under proper secrecy without chance of word getting around of their identity will detail their life story of how they are systematically mentally & emotionally being degraded and abused by their spouses in such way that they became prone to it as a way of life and their minds and spirit become used to it.

    This is called Mental control and Scientist and World renowned Psychiatrists like t o refer to is as a Phigystered mind level and is only found by Chsidish Ultra orthodox men.

    All of you who just so happen to stumble upon this comment be aware that you’ve officially been diagnosed with “Phigystered” (of course if you’re a Gentile or a Modern Orthodox or Semi Orthodox you’re fine)

    For more info. on “Phigystered ” visit the official Phigystered Center located near the Williamsburg Fress Truck.

    Still Trying to Recover
    Still Trying to Recover
    15 years ago

    My spouse had an addiction.
    He used sexual pleasure to mask his personal pain in life.
    Of course it was never enough.

    I went to therapists with him.
    He accused them of being partial to women.
    I became depressed.
    I lost my will to live, or do anything for him, or for myself.
    including cooking, eating, or enjoying music.
    I lost my ability to daaven.
    It had become meaningless.

    I went to Rabbonim for help.
    They knew how to be melamed zechus: on him.
    They concluded – erroneously – that I am disturbed in these areas.
    I suffered terrible indignities as young know-it-all-women tried to “educate” me about men!
    I was a 25 year old, intelligent woman with a good education, and I had been working for a medical practice in a large city.
    I was not naive, or unhealthy.
    but I did have a serious problem: I didn’t have a supportive family.
    I didn’t trust myself.

    When rabbanim concluded that he was a big tzaddik, who nebach had a mentally ill wife, I actually thought they were right.
    It took me 10 years to understand what a sex addiction is.
    I would like to be moichel the Rabbanim and the ex.
    He was sick, and they were ignorant.

    But my family still believes I am mentally ill.
    Even my desire to be moichel is also chalked up to my lack of stability!

    I have gotten tons of help. From strangers, friends, and professionals.
    I have been deeply hurt by an almost equal number of people in our frum communities.

    there are bad therapists and good therapists.
    There are those who say there is no such thing as abuse.
    It’s difficult not to wish my pain on them.

    And there are those who patiently listened and gave me chizuk.
    Wiped away my tears.
    And rebuilt my connection to my self, my yiddishkeit, and ultimately, my G-d.
    They called a spade a spade and helped me find health.
    I am eternally grateful to them.
    Hakadosh Boruch Hu Yishalach Scharam.

    I did believe that once I got healthier, the issues with my family would fall into place.
    That hasn’t taken place yet.

    People will believe what they want to believe.
    It’s called cognitive dissonance.
    It’s too distressfull to have your truths challenged.
    It’s easier to deny reality.
    If I wasn’t crazy, how can they explain away the terrible yissurim that they put me through?

    all I ever wanted was support from my family.
    but they don’t know how to give it.

    what ever happened to lo sa’amod al dam reyacha?

    May We Continue to help the ones who are hurting, the ones who act out in pain, and the ones crying out silently.
    And may we be zoche to have success in correcting the wrongs in our kehillos.

    Hashem Yevarech es Amo Bashalom.

    Rachel
    Rachel
    15 years ago

    To #48 – Still Trying to Recover. Your post is the most eloquent, sensitive and meaningful one that Has ever been posted on VIN. You are obviously well on the road to complete healing and hopefully have gained enough self-esteem not to let anyone convince you otherwise. Self-assurance and self-confidence are the vital components necessary as a shield against the assault of an emotional abuser. It’s nice to have the support of others but it is of most importance to learn to be self-reliant. Hatzlacha!!!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH SOME PEOPLE. Why is this a religous problem? It’s like saying that people have a tendency to kill others because some people are muderers. Here again, it’s a religous coverup and all woman are innocent, they cant abuse their husbands by driving up credit card bills and being clingy as many are. It’s all about the orthdox man.

    Show me one community that works so hard on improving ethics and moral values as the orthdox community. So now the un-religous community who has a divorce rate of 80% they have the healthy marriages, lets trade. It’s the same as with abuses alleged to be going on in schools. Lets change our education system to include information that 80% of the time leads to undesired results as seen in the secular community so that the few that were hurt feel better.

    Please stand up for what’s right. Dont sit there reading these comments and aceppt them as a fact. We have great marriages for the most part and great advice we can seek for the most part. Those that thet systenm failed are most time the cause of the problem or just victim to the will of hashem, which is sometime sbeyond our comprehension.

    T.Y.
    T.Y.
    15 years ago

    Thank you VIN News for posting this article.
    As a man reading this I can’t believe what I am reading. It makes me reflect on my relationship with my wife and think of how I can make sure nothing like this ever happens. This is a real Mitzvah for you to bring this topic to the public eye.
    I hope many husbands will rethink their relationships with their wife and make sure there is nothing ever like this being done. The most important thing is to be a Mentch and then, in the light we can go about fulfilling all Torah Mitzvot!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    It sounds like all rabbis should be trained on how to handle these difficult situations, whether spousal abuse, child abuse, elder abuse, etc. While they all can’t be experts, they need to know what not to say and how to find appropriate resources, whether licensed social workers or others to refer potential abuse victims too. No one should be able to get smicha without some of this training.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    # 38 and # 48 were quite articulate. All of us should give pause to the spectrum of relationships we have, and how many of us take our wives for granted and can quickly becoming overbearing, sarcastic, etc. However, by and large there are psychopathological people in every group, and I doubt this is specific to the frum community in any way. I am sure there are abusive Amish and Catholics and Eskimos, etc. I maintain, however, that a truly religious Jew cannot be abusive. To the extent that we abuse those in relationships with us, our true frumkeit is lacking.

    something for everyone
    something for everyone
    15 years ago

    Auto abuse-denigrating your wife’s driving abilities
    Timely abuse-denigrating your wife’s ability to be ready on time.
    Bed abuse- dissapearing when it’s time to help put the kids to bed. Shiduch abuse- badgering your huband to find shiduchim for all your single freinds
    Davening abuse – harassing your husband to daven on time
    AND THE REAL BIG ONE which of course only exists in the “haredi” community- SUNDAY ABUSE- badgering your husband to take care of all your projects when all he wants to do is laz away.
    Tough world for the poor shlubs who aren’t victims.
    Couples fight. People don’t always get along. Husband or wife or both may be crazy. But let’s not turn everything into a new “haredi abuse” issue.

    Still Trying to Recover
    Still Trying to Recover
    15 years ago

    Thank you to those who commented sensitively on my comment.
    I would like to add:
    One reason that the recovery process is so difficult, is that people tried to help in the way that they want.
    Not necessarily in the way that I needed.
    I have learned much from the pain I have been through.
    I have become an expert on emotional dysfunction….
    and I know what emotional health is.

    If not for my experiences, perhaps I would not know.
    Not everyone appreciates that I have gained knowledge.
    They would prefer to see me as dysfunctional.
    It’s more comfortable for them, and it doesn’t require any introspection on their parts.
    My yiddishkeit is now personal and real.
    It is sometimes more intense than others believe possible.
    I don’t know if I would ever have developed that without the pain and loneliness I was subjected to.
    It is a challenge to temper the pain, and chanel the emotions into a normative life.

    To others who care about people like me, please remember:
    I didn’t ask for my pain.
    I didn’t ask for my nisyonos.
    This is what Hashem gave me.
    I have tried to use my experiences for personal growth bain adam l’chavero.
    If at times you don’t understand me, at least don’t judge me.
    If you want to understand, ask.
    I have a rav.
    I was connected to him by a therapist who cared.
    The shailos I had to ask, as I struggled with depression are beyond the scope of this comment.
    The motzi shem ra that was spread about me as I battled anxiety made me an expert in hilchos shmiras halashon.
    May you all be zoche to learn how to care about others without necessitating a personal trip into Hell.

    Avrohom Abba
    Avrohom Abba
    15 years ago

    1. Is it possible that some women deny their husbands certain expectations in private?
    2. Is it possible that this denial is called abuse of the husband?
    3. Is it possible that some women ignore that this is how husbands become twisted and lose their respect and humanity and even become perverted?
    4. Is it possible that women make this into a very small issue when it is really vital and major and is never discussed?
    5. Is it pssible that men who are suffering from this remain silent because of the embarrassment and ridicule?

    Now who owes me M. ??

    Shaul in Monsey
    Shaul in Monsey
    15 years ago

    Publicizing the abuse in our communities is always a good thing, nevertheless I am always wary of articles that portray the abuse as male against female abuse, because the reality is never so.

    The reality is that either a husband or a wife can perpetrate this kind of abuse, and many if not all of the other kinds of abuse as well. And while I acknowledge that most of the cases we are seeing publicized are of male perpetrators, I believe it less than fully responsible journalism to skew the reality that there are bad women among us just as there are bad men – case in point, the recently and rightfully convicted murdering doctor is of the worst psychopaths we’ve seen in a long time.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Making your husband eat leftovers on sunday is also a form of abuse that exists only by the orthodox. Now everyone can be a victim. No need to be excluded from the victim bandwagon!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    I have a lot to say but it looks like enough was said. But the one thing I have to say is that I’m a very frum married man and I treat my wife like a queen thanks to my rabbeim who I learn from by
    example . Thank you rebbi!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    thank you for posting this artice.
    for those that choose to pretend that abuse doesn’t exsist in our community…
    it’s time you become abit more educated…
    and for those that choose to make sarcastic comments about this artice…
    it is also time for you to realize that abuse is REAL and ALIVE unfortunately.
    before you choose to comment say BARUCH HASHEM that you
    are not a victim and that you don’t know anyone that is.

    Then, try to look around and open your mind to truly grasp the article..
    and the facts that state that 1 in 4 women are victims to spousal abuse.
    The reason you need to know this is to protect your daughters and nieces
    from entering into such a relationship C”V.

    I was a victim of child abuse throughout my childhood…
    verbal, emotional and yes spiritual too…. (as this article states..)
    as a result of my childhood i unfortunately ended up in an abusive marriage as well
    as the saying goes “from the frying pot to the oven”

    Baruch Hashem after much pain and humilaition I had a lot of siyata dishmaya and Hashem saved me from that gehinom!

    so please dear readers, for my sake and all the other victims…
    (be it men or women..though statistics show more women suffer from abuse.)
    Please show sensitivity to this subject…
    please don’t be so quick to take sides…
    please don’t judge divorced women for you have no idea what they lived through….
    please show some compassion to the abused spouses and children…
    and please don’t abuse your family members…
    if you have an issue…..be it anger or anything else…get help…
    for your sake, for her sake, and for your childrens sake..
    and if you were raised in an abusive home please go to therapy…
    because odds are you will either repeat the abuse or marry an abuser C”V!!

    to # 69- i completely empathize with you and agree with everything you say…
    people have to realize that victims do not choose to be in this situation..
    and that the lashon hara and motzi shem ra… only adds more pain and suffering to someone who has already been through so much.

    another note – abuse is not selective-
    it can happen to anyone, anywhere, any religion, any financial bracket…..
    the only protection against it…
    is to do hishtadlus by davening, davening, davening, and more davening…and bein AWARE….do your research….
    Hatzlacha! and may Hashem protect us all from abuse and from all tzaros! May we only hear good news!! may we greet mashiach bekarov!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Watching the comments going both directions in accusing men and women of abusing their spouses, I will do the expected and take a middle, level-headed approach. There are, unfortunately, too many people that portray themselves to the public as righteous tzaddikim, yet are guilty of being the opposite. There are abusive husbands, and there are abusive wives. If we just get a glimpse of history, we can see where many of the public perceptions began.

    For years, women were the housewives, while the men went to work and were the earners. The men had the means to seek legal help more so than the women. When there was domestic violence, women were the oppressed ones, and had no resources. This eventually led to a backlash, and the pendulum swung the opposite direction. Current thinking is that the only direction of abuse is men to women, and the media, even the court system generally buys this. Research indicates that spousal murder is overwhelmingly women killing their husbands, and that the spectrum of domestic violence is much closer to 50-50. Yet, the husband who alleges that he is the victim is hardly believed, and the woman is nearly always believed, regardless of the evidence.

    There is a budding backlash to call for a more even handed and balanced approach, where the reports of domestic violence, while taken seriously, do not constitute automatic guilt. Too many men are being arrested and jailed for abuse they did not commit, at the hands of women who are angry (even if justified) who want revenge. The current system allows for this. The crime of false reporting is not prosecuted. Yes, there are many ways in which even the current system is unfair to women, but it is far more unfair to men. We need to repair the current domestic violence system so that we protect anyone who is the victim, we prevent the system from being misused, we disallow fabrications from driving the system, and we hold reporters accountable. This must be done while insuring the safety of everyone involved.

    The petty accusations and generalizations in many of the above comments are childish. A bit of maturity will allow one to understand a bit more.

    We also need to re-examine the truth about who and what we are. The external appearances, even sitting in front of a gemora, does not constitute tzidkus. Shokkeling by davening defines nothing, even saying shiurim. Ultimately only HKB”H knows the truth. There’s too much fakery around. We need to get real.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    these are the same people that use religion for stealing also

    Faig
    Faig
    15 years ago

    Yes this problem happens within every religious or non religious community, but some people within our community do not read news articles in secular magazines or refer to secular news websites. That is why VIN is reporting about this.

    me
    me
    15 years ago

    “Orthodox man who told all the relatives invited to his daughter’s bat mitzva…”

    Orthodox?? Ayin Igros Moshe – Bat Mitzva.

    Sherree
    Sherree
    15 years ago

    Just because it isn’t happening to you, or you haven’t hear about it before doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. If you never learnt a certain sedrah before and you are learning it today, it is new to you, but it has been around a long time.

    In many cases, as mentioned, Rabbonim help and in many cases Rabbonim harm. Many men (young chassanim) are not taught and trained how to be good husbands according to the Torah, and their Rabbonim don’t help with their nonsense. I know a couple whose husband wakes her up at 3:00 am for relations because then it is dark enough and not before. Narishkeiten. She works like a fert and she needs her sleep and he is full of baloney. Frum relationships between a husband and wife is based on respect and love and not on abuse and humiliation. Even if a spouse would like to make a correction it is supposed to be suggested in a way as not to hurt or humiliate.

    Stories like these are happening all over the place it is not exclusive to E”Y and it is not exclusive to Chareidei couples. It is also not exclusive to young couples. There is a lot of mussar that needs to go around, and living with blinders on only promotes all the bad things that is going on among us. While people choose to bud in to other peoples business where they are not doing harm to anyone else, those that are causing harm are left alone to continue and are even given free reign and protection to do so. Is it any wonder we are still waiting and waiting and waiting for Moshiach?