Jerusalem – New Group Of Chareidi Girls Dancing Hip Hop At Weddings, Is It Kosher?

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    archived photosJerusalem – After Oif Simchas choreography and music, Chassidic trance and raggae music, what new titillating netherworlds remain to be conquered?

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    Now Israel Hayom reports that women are being roped into the new wave of avant-garde chareidi entertainment. The latest sensation is a three-women hip hop dance troupe called Danciot (formed by combining “dance” + “dosiot”), molded under the expert guidance of producer David Pedida, the notorious creator of Oif Simchos and the Kinderlach choir. The women dance hip hop to the sounds of Oif Simchas music at weddings and other events. G-d forbid they are untznius; they are dressed in long sleeved-shirts and long skirts.

    “It began rather simple,” explains Pedida. “Our production company had many requests for entertainment for chareidi women. The chareidi community only has unprofessional performances, so I decided to found the most professional group I could. We set off six months ago. Tali Azikari, a dance teacher, approached me, and together we built a hip hop and dance choreographic project with Claude Dadaya.

    Pedida admits, “The girls’s bodies are not exposed, but they are dressed in a modern style unknown in the sector. They will appear with hats, dressed like angels. These costumes are not accepted here. The girls in the audience are shocked; they’re not used to such professionalism.”

    The troupe consists of Tali Azikari, 27, of Bnei Brak, married and a mother of 2; her sister-in-law Naomi Azikari, 17.5 from Petach Tikva, and Sherry Shulman, 18.5, also from Petach Tikva. The last two are students in a chareidi Bais Yaakov high school.

    Tali says, “My family is chareidi and I was born in Tel Aviv. I’m dancing from a young age, of course, only in religious places. I learned in girls’ institutions where only women teach, but I learned all the styles from classic to modern.

    “We decided to go in the direction of chassidic hip hop, fast-paced compositions of chassidic music. We decided to found the troupe after we received many requests from women who said, ‘You’re talented, why don’t you bring this into our sector? Chareidi women want to see performances, dances, to let loose. They don’t have the opportunity because they’re most of the time with their kids in the house.’ We realized that our troupe had to give religious women ‘fun’.”

    But how could religious women work with a male choreographer?

    “Claude has women teachers in his studio, and we worked with them. Claude just came for the final finishes. To tell the truth, we did dance in front of him, but it was only for work purposes.”

    Pedida says that the “rabbonim” who he consulted confirmed that for work purposes, there is no problem with dancing in front of a man. “They have long skirts and shirts that cover themselves up. There’s no problem with that.” He adds that so far the troupe has been performing at weddings and private events for women.

    Tali explains, “After our show, we try to get the girls to start dancing. We guide them, and they follow our steps. It’s loads of fun.”

    As for the chareidi hip hop dancers’ families, they support them and think it’s great. Says Tali, “They saw that I’m talented, and there’s no reason why not to do it as long as it has the stamp of religion. My husband loves it. He supports me and even pushed me towards it. He can’t attend our performances, but he sees me practicing at home.”


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    96 Comments
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    Mendy Hecht
    Mendy Hecht
    15 years ago

    I think that if the dances come from secular origins, such as “hip hop dancing” (whatever that is), it’s simply common sense that it’s not kosher. On the other hand, there’s nothing wrong with professional dance leaders and people having fun–the only question is what dances they’re teaching.

    Getzel From Ave L
    Getzel From Ave L
    15 years ago

    Its a wonderful outlet for frum women who until now have been repressed. I’m sure it will be endorsed by all the Rebbes and will soon be seen at many weddings, both in Israel and the USA. Good luck ladies.

    Elior C.
    Elior C.
    15 years ago

    Treif – it will lead to zenus!Howl and yell, curse me all you want – but you know it’ll eventually lead girls in the wrong path.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    I am a very tzniut modern orthodox woman. I have been to Yeshivish weddings, and to tell you the truth, I have been absolutely shocked at what I saw. Mechitza or no mechitza, dancing the way the girls at those weddings were dancing was so “prust” I couldn’t believe I was seeing orthodox girls. You can follow the letter of the law, but if it’s not internal, it’s meaningless. I think it’s terrible that these girls are doing hip hop.

    girls just want to have fun
    girls just want to have fun
    15 years ago

    When will they be performing in NY? I will be there with all my friends, no boys/men invited, we LOVE TO DANCE, SING and have fun “Leman Hashem”.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    My guess is those Chareidi Girls were Not excepted in school, now they care much about kosher yah. who are the boys dancing odd dances at the men’s side. I don’t think they care about kosher. If they do care all they have to do is send a check to hisachdus they’ll get a hechsher.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    beyond the letter of the law, there’s also the aspect of the spirit of the law. something about this sounds funny to me. i’d be very uncomfortable with it.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Hashem yirachem how low can we get let’s do tsheuvah so moshiach can come & take us out of this tumah

    Abe
    Abe
    15 years ago

    Pooshit ah shandeh. Hashem Yracheim and don’t punish us for this pirtzah in kedushas Klal Yisroel

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Girls Gone Wild

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    When you go to wedding today you will see many girls delibirately dancing provocatavely near the mechitza trying to get attention from the men

    Im frummer than thou
    Im frummer than thou
    15 years ago

    Whats the question?
    We should all already be programmed to know that…..
    “EVERYTHING IS OSSUR”

    Oy Gevald
    Oy Gevald
    15 years ago

    And Miriam the Neviah, sister of Aaron went out with all the women and sang Shira etc. Sefer Shmos 15/20. I don’t see anything Kosher about that either!!!

    not kosher
    not kosher
    15 years ago

    for once, most bloggers agree that this is not a kosher venue!! mazal tov to all on this amazing occurance!!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    All bashing aside! Its very cool! & it would give girls an outlet & show them that yea you can still be cool without taking drugs & without doing other bad stuff!

    love to dance
    love to dance
    15 years ago

    This sounds like fun!! Maybe we should start something like that here..

    who are they kidding anyway??
    who are they kidding anyway??
    15 years ago

    Lets get something straight about the issur at hand…

    The problem is with the MEN watching the women & not really the women dancing in front of the men. There is an option which is for the men to stay on their side of the mechitza.

    love to dance
    love to dance
    15 years ago

    This sounds like fun!! Maybe we should start something like that here..

    normal, healthy woman
    normal, healthy woman
    15 years ago

    Dancing can be a great fun outlet.
    A wedding is a public event.
    provocative dancing in public, even with a mechitza is not healthy, and certainly is not helpful for anyone at a wedding.
    there are many, many places where we women can go to let loose.
    If we don’t, we will suddenly feel like doing it at the only night out we have made time for:
    somebody else’s wedding.

    that being said, if you continue to repress the girls, and don’t teach them about themselves, and their own healthy needs and urges, you are confusing them, and allowing their natural instincts to run amok.

    If you continue to tell them that their interest in the opposite gender labels them as bad… they will believe you until they find out it isn’t true.
    Or they will decide it’s worth it.
    If you constantly tell them that every thing they say, or do is a tznius problem, eventually they will regurgitate your criticism.

    The result is a generation of frum, ehrlich bais yaakov girls who actually care about Torah and Hashem, but don’t know the difference between happy dancing and provocative dancing….
    even in private!

    Our communities created this monster.
    Let the blame begin!

    educate yourself first
    educate yourself first
    15 years ago

    do any of you hysterics have any idea what hip-hop dancing looks like? there’s nothing disgusting or provocative in this style of dance, any more than any other chasuna dances. I actually find it most unfeminine.

    Mendy Hecht
    Mendy Hecht
    15 years ago

    The point still stands that there is an accepted mainstream convention that is quite conservative and we rightfully get upset when new things are introduced, and not just in dancing–music, food and other cultural variables. Nobody can deny that; that’s what “Orthodox” means–keeping things the way they are. It’s a mechanism that has kept us to the straight and narrow for thousands of years.

    On the other hand, 17, 18, 24 and 35 make good points. Perhaps in a generation or three “hip hop” dancing will be totally normal at our grandchildren’s weddings the same way the goyishe songs and dances of hundreds of years ago are the Orthodox old-school standards at the most frum weddings today. Who knows? All I know is that if I saw my 10-year-old daughter dancing wildly, I’d get that “Jewish” feeling we all have felt from time to time when something doesn’t feel quite kosher and I’d tell her to stop, and, I believe, rightfully so—this hesitance to new things is a critical part of our cultural and spiritual identity.

    educate yourself first
    educate yourself first
    15 years ago

    do any of you hysterics have any idea what hip-hop dancing looks like? there’s nothing disgusting or provocative in this style of dance, any more than any other chasuna dances. I actually find it most unfeminine.

    Neviah
    Neviah
    15 years ago

    Unfortunately, this is not new. I’ve been to girls and women’s purim events where the girls and women had an opportunity to be **wild**. It reminded me of MTV, but behind closed doors. Most of the women shmoozed but they let their girls run loose with loud music from Chevra and the like. There were Rebbetzins and female teachers from the local Yeshivish schools. So, what’s the problem? It’s too goyish!
    It’s one thing if everyone dances the hora, but no… gotta be those popular goyish-like music and dancing!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    This is NOT a mechitzah issue, this is a woman issue. Hashem created women with a natural sense of modesty – which can be destroyed. Certain types of dancing (i.e. Rock ‘n roll, etc.) Have the ability to lower a persons morals.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    What smells bad here is that a “man” from oif simchas is the one putting this together. Somehow ladies dancing and men don’t go together.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Those who criticize this type of dancing at yiddeshe simchas are gross hypocrites. Go to any chasanah or other simcha and you will see rabbonim and bachurim dancing wildly. Last week VIN published an article discussing the origins of the style of dance of a specific chassidishe rebbe. What these women are doing is THE SAME as the rabbonim do and they are doing it in accordance with daas torah and halacha. If you trash them then you might as well trash some of the gadolim who engage in the identical behavior.

    visa punim
    visa punim
    15 years ago

    im an exstreamley yishivish person THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE HORA its VERY simple and classic and deep dawn all of you agree with me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    not our business
    not our business
    15 years ago

    Its just like excersize we don’t look what they do and its non of our business let’s not get dragged away we don’t have to get to close to this issue its atzas hayetzer to discuss it we just love this discussion its nivil peh

    Meilach yankel
    Meilach yankel
    15 years ago

    I think that rap is gevalding. Its an expression of the inner feellings and acting that out.If someone does not like that dont look at it. I dont like hamburgers that does not make me go around and ban it or look down on other people.its mind you own business and dont be holyer then thou

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Did you know there is hip hop dancing in old Willi, it’s just a well kept secret. You guys will hopefully never find out where.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    The more we adopt from what goyim do, so that we can be like them, is what the posuk discussed in Devarim. It is simply dangerous as it leads to avoda zarah and the other aveiros chamuros. When yidden adopted any of the other things that had goyishe origins, they were outmoded by the goyim, and thus did not have the effect of copying and trying to be more similar.

    At way too many yeshivishe and chassidishe weddings, it is appalling to observe the dancing (by the men) that are simply goyish (current). Much of the music is also. For those who use their internet, as is needed to access this site, search for the origins of many of the tunes that appear today under the guise of “Chassidic music”. I did, and much comes directly from rock and other non-kosher sources. It is disgusting to hear this kind of music at the simchos that represent the foundations of new homes of Klal Yisrael. Any trip to a judaica store will give exposure to all this stuff, with attractive, Jewish sounding names and themes – until you turn it on. You get much the same as what can be heard on the radio, minus several dollars that fooled you into thinking that this is kosher. What would Dovid Hamelech, the Anshei Knesses Hagedola, and others think of the wild, provocative, and goyishe type music being played and sung to the holy words they created as mizmorim to HKB”H and our precious tefillos? Such dances degrade these holy words another few notches.

    Sol
    Sol
    15 years ago

    So, what is next ? The Frug? The Shing a Ling? The Hully-Gully? Were does it end?

    Normal, Healthy Woman
    Normal, Healthy Woman
    15 years ago

    When I was in seminary, I was taught a concept:
    Tznius bifnei hashechina.
    it matters where you are.
    if what you are doing is normal in the environment you are in, then it’s allowed.
    the halacha about what you may wear, and how you may act is affected by the norms.
    what is normal at a swimming pool is not normal in your kitchen.
    what is normal among a small group of people at a gym is not normal at a wedding.
    what is normal at the average wedding is not normal at a professional performance for fun or fundraising.

    At the weddings that I attend, there are both male and female invited guests.
    The mechitza is there to protect people from unwanted attention from the other side, as well as unintentional distraction of people who are trying to mind their own business.
    Behaviors that are DESIGNED to attract attention from the other side of the mechitza is not appropriate.
    for men or for women!

    Dancing at a chasuna has ONE purpose:
    To be mesamayach the chassan and kallah.
    Entertaining anyone else (other than the bubbies and zaides) can be done in the appropriate venue.
    If my purpose in hiring entertainment is to give everyone a great time, why can’t I charge admission?
    If my purpose in hiring entertainment is in fact to be mesamayach the chassan v’kallah (which is also the whole point of the wedding), then the guests are not the ones who should determine whether the entertainment is appropriate.

    Chassanim and Kallos in our circles spend the day of their chasuna in solemn prayer, often fasting, and daavening for so many people.
    They understand that this is their personal Yom Kippur.
    If you are a good friend, you will not destroy your friend’s day by culminating his OR her Yom Kippur with wild partying.
    They don’t need such zechusim to start off their married life.
    They don’t need you to get drunk.
    They don’t need you to embarrass them.
    and they certainly don’t need you to make a mockery of their prayers.

    YETTA
    YETTA
    15 years ago

    This is why I went OTD. Everything is usser, I wont be shocked that women won’t be allowed to breathe by the time 2011 comes around.

    Those who ban these things are the ones who frequent strip clubs often PERIOD!

    mendel epstein
    mendel epstein
    15 years ago

    whats the big deal! its about time the women have an outlet. luz up shoin!

    dk
    dk
    15 years ago

    if i am not mistaken it says in the torah that the girls would go out to the fields in white robes and dance and the buchrim would chose which girl he liked based on that. this is gevaldig! we are going back to our roots!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    There is a letter going around from the chofetz chaim which he wrote in regard to the many tzaros that was happening during his days he replied hashem said “kedoshim yeihu” and he felt in those days it was a problem in todays times aren’t there enough tzarous and I don’t think this dance will make us more “kedoshim yeihu”
    people need outlets why don’t we ask our grandparents what they did for an outlet when they were younger if they did any

    curious
    curious
    15 years ago

    By the way I didn/t see number 9 quote. However I wonder why it was taken off? Can anyone explain it in a nice way.?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    this is not good, an other layer of the fence that keeps us seperate from the goyim has been stripped away. i predict, these girls will go down hill very fast, nobody is stronger than the yetzer horeh unless the fences are intact. whats next? the true hipsters coming to a wedding?. when i go to a wedding and i see some low life druged up buchrim let loose because they feel its a good outlet in the name of simchas chusen vekaleh and they dance the way they dance in the clubs,it makes me want to puke. shame on these girls for desecrating the holiest night of a new couple.

    Hana Levi Julian
    Hana Levi Julian
    15 years ago

    The Lubavitcher Rebbe once said that it is a mitzvah to transform a negative into a positive, and that it is, in fact, our mission to elevate those energies in this world in exactly that way. So here we have women doing exactly that: taking a secular dance form and transforming it into Jewish celebration. What could be MORE kosher? The Rebbe himself transformed Napoleon’s March! There is nothing wrong with this, people. Get over it already.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    I guess most people just want their children to be one step above being on drugs – Yes I agree there are things that are better outlets but for only those that are on drugs or heading there – not for the main stream people who would never think about doing these things.

    BinderDundat
    BinderDundat
    15 years ago

    People, wake up!! Dont you all see that this is just another step in the yeshivishe velt’s intention to make us a miserable nation. Chas Vesholem anyone should ever be happy or smile. Any time someone does something to be happy, they come out and say its assur. Yeshivish people, climb back into your miserable little holes and leave the rest of us alone. MITZVA GEDOLA LIYOS BESIMCHA.

    Rachel
    Rachel
    15 years ago

    There is nothing beautiful about Hip Hop dancing, I don’t whant to insault those “professional” dansers but you don’t need a special talent for it! Furthermore, do you know the origin of this “dance”? Black and Spiks. Now let me ask you, the chosen nation, who are we imitating? have we compleatly lost our sences? Let them imitate us!!!

    Me
    Me
    15 years ago

    “Claude has women teachers in his studio, and we worked with them. Claude just came for the final finishes. To tell the truth, we did dance in front of him, but it was only for work purposes.”

    Pedida says that the “rabbonim” who he consulted confirmed that for work purposes, there is no problem with dancing in front of a man.”

    My sisters a prostitute but she only does it for work purposes. My brother works on shabbos, but he walks to the factory. It’s only for work purposes.
    Shkoiach… Idiots.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    I think that this is SOOOOO cool! I hope more of these groups sprout

    ck
    ck
    15 years ago

    Good grief. I totally agree with #96 Long Beach Chasid. #87 Rachel should learn how to spell, or simply abandon racist stereotypes – you do know that there are “Black and Spiks” (sic.) that are Jewish, right? Half my synagogue is of Spanish descent. Our nigunim are North African and Spanish in origin. Judaism has always borrowed from its surrounding cultures. Our job, as Long Beach Chasid put it so well, is to take “the mundane of the nations” and infuse it with kedushah. Women dancing joyously for other women is reminiscent of Miriam’s dancing and singing with the women of Israel in Sinai. I don’t see how Cossack dances are any more “holy” than hip hop – at least hip hoppers never committed pogroms against us!