“ I cry ! Have ordered lunch in the past from him, never liked the look from this new owner. Allways had this thinking in my head that who knows if he cares about kashrus. I guess I was rite. ”

“ Does anyone know who the rav hamachshir was? ”

“ keep on raising the price of kosher meat, and overcharging....what do you expect? ”

“ keep on raising the price of kosher meat, and overcharging....what do you expect? ”

“ I thought after the Monsey scandal that Mashgichim were supposed to be the only ones with keys to the stockrooms etc. What happened? ”

“ I cry ! Have ordered lunch in the past from him, never liked the look from this new owner. Allways had this thinking in my head that who knows if he cares about kashrus. I guess I was rite. ”

“ I think that we as Jews should get the message, and I think it’s time for some soul searching, and to rethink the way we look at eating out in restaurants in general, including the huge line of junk food sold in groceries regardless of it’s certification. ”

“ Is the problem only with franks or also with the shwarma? ”

“ Ohh, so you're defending selling non kosher meats?

#1) you're an idiot
#2) his markup was much more then any kosher restaurant, so there ya go... ”

“ Does this store have any connection to Schwarma King in Monticello? ”

“ keep on raising the price of kosher meat, and overcharging....what do you expect? ”

“ Is the problem only with franks or also with the shwarma? ”

“
Its not worth a reply to this non sence ”

“ That works only when you have unity in hashgachos. Every Tom, Dick and Harry gives a hashgacha, many having no clue as to how to run and or administer a kosher program.

Part of the problem lies with the consumers because they accept and tolerate this proliferation in hashgachos. "Out of town" where there is one Va'ad giving hashgachos you rarely hear of these scandals. ”

“ keep on raising the price of kosher meat, and overcharging....what do you expect? ”

“ The problem is the trust. lol ”

“ #1) really?
#2)so, I guess you ate there....so who's the idiot now? ”

“ When you only have one Hashgacha in town there are no checks and balances & they cover everything up. So of course there are no scandals. ”

“ Who gave the hechsher?? ”

“ Sorry, let me explain. In a community were everyone stands behind a Va'ad, they know the people giving the hashgacha. It is not just a certificate on the wall. The hashgacha is part of the fabric of the community. The Rabanim who oversee the Va'ad are the same people educating their children and are also paskining their shailos.

There is definitely checks and balances. Also, many of these Va'ads are part of the net work of the national hashgachos. In other words they supply or work with the mashgichim who go off to little towns across the US to supervise and certify plants who make the components of the food we eat. So in short you are eating food that has ingredients certified by some of these local Va'ads or certified by their masgichim.

The bottom line is the checks and balances on these Va'ads are their community's values and oversight. ”

“ My eating there doesn't make me and idiot, I didn't choose to eat non kosher food.

A idiot is someone who posts silly comments.

P.S. And that would be a good reason for people (like you who don't understand why kosher meat is more expensive) to buy treif, not a restaurant who is anywaya making the same much profit per item as non kosher restaurants. ”

“ That works only when you have unity in hashgachos. Every Tom, Dick and Harry gives a hashgacha, many having no clue as to how to run and or administer a kosher program.

Part of the problem lies with the consumers because they accept and tolerate this proliferation in hashgachos. "Out of town" where there is one Va'ad giving hashgachos you rarely hear of these scandals. ”

“ Who gave the hechsher?? ”

“ One more point. Way too many mashgichim are horribly underpaid. This is a major problem.
How does anyone expect quality, reliable employees for what so many pay a mashgiach today?
Remember, you want a mashgiach who is married with children, you need to pay him enough to support that family and pay schar limud to put his kids in yeshiva.

If we say, "OY! That much?" Then we may as well give up on American kashrus.

Personally, *** I *** would not trust the work of any mashgiach who is paid only $13 or $14 /hour.

If you want a mashgiach who is reliable, does his job, and is trustworthy, you must pay him a real salary and benefits. He must have medical coverage for his family, pay his mortgage, buy food and clothing, and tuition.

Would YOU trust someone who has to go into debt to pay for food/clothing, etc.,?
You can't!
I am not saying there are no reliable but underpaid mashgichim. That would be slapping some dedicated people in the face. I am saying that TODAY, we must pay better.

Yes, this will mean you pay more for your food! Suck it up.

Would you want to pay $1.00 less on your lunch, but know that a mashgiach had to go to a gemach to clothe his family? If you said, "Yes," you should be ashamed of yourself.

We need to update our thinking on compensating mashgichim. ”

“ keep on raising the price of kosher meat, and overcharging....what do you expect? ”

“ One more point. Way too many mashgichim are horribly underpaid. This is a major problem.
How does anyone expect quality, reliable employees for what so many pay a mashgiach today?
Remember, you want a mashgiach who is married with children, you need to pay him enough to support that family and pay schar limud to put his kids in yeshiva.

If we say, "OY! That much?" Then we may as well give up on American kashrus.

Personally, *** I *** would not trust the work of any mashgiach who is paid only $13 or $14 /hour.

If you want a mashgiach who is reliable, does his job, and is trustworthy, you must pay him a real salary and benefits. He must have medical coverage for his family, pay his mortgage, buy food and clothing, and tuition.

Would YOU trust someone who has to go into debt to pay for food/clothing, etc.,?
You can't!
I am not saying there are no reliable but underpaid mashgichim. That would be slapping some dedicated people in the face. I am saying that TODAY, we must pay better.

Yes, this will mean you pay more for your food! Suck it up.

Would you want to pay $1.00 less on your lunch, but know that a mashgiach had to go to a gemach to clothe his family? If you said, "Yes," you should be ashamed of yourself.

We need to update our thinking on compensating mashgichim. ”

“ I thought after the Monsey scandal that Mashgichim were supposed to be the only ones with keys to the stockrooms etc. What happened? ”

“ you don't have to buy it-eat vegetables- how dare you offer this sick comment as an excuse. No Jew has any business eating so called Hot Dogs, anyway (kosher or Not) that is a seperate issue because they are junk that over time will kill you worse than cigarettes. ”

“ my klall was, is eat only where i know the proprietor personnally as a yirei shomaimthen hechser from rav or organization i trust..and if i am in horrai arrarot and dont know then dont eat...no, we are not in the jungle without food . there is plenty to eat ”

“ The local trusted vaads have problems too.

I was sitting in the office with the "Head" rov of a trusted local vaad. He is a very good, man, a talmid chuchom and yiras shomayim.

But, he also has a problem. He believes in giving tzedaka.

Men come to him, because he is also the rov in a local shul, new people in town, and say, "Rabbi, help me. I lost my job, and do not know where to get another one." , or "Rabbi, help me. I lost all my money in a divorce"... or "I lost my money in Vegas, I had a gambling problem. I cost me my self respect, but I went to GA and now I know better."

The stories are very varied, but always the same bottom line. They are looking for a handout. But, the rabbi knows, that once he hands out money, it will be a weekly hit. The man will come back every week on his "rounds" expecting that handout.

So, being a really good man, he wants to really "HELP" the man.
How do you help a broke, almost or really homeless man, you help him get a job.

We all agree that is the best way to help someone; right?
Nobody disagrees with that.

But, who can he call to give this guy work? He can't give him references, not honestly, so he can't call any companies he knows, or baal habatim, and recommend this poor man as an employee.

So, after seeing this man daven and put on tefillin for a few days, and he tells a good story about how he is a frum man, he thinks, "I will hire him myself!" I will have him be a mashgiach."

So he picks up the phone, and places the call to his "kashrus supervisor" and says, "Rabbi ________, I have a new mashgiach for you. He needs immediate work. Can you find a place for him where he can be trained on the job?"

So, here we have a good, local vaad, headed by a really good, honest Rov, with a good supervisor, everyone meaning well, but in a period of 3 years they have hired 5 or 6 total loosers who are about as trustworthy as a paper boot in the rain.
You wind up with a mashgiach who does not have any real training.
You wind up with a mashgiach who is easily intimidated by the restaurant owner.
You wind up with a mashgiach who will rush through a case of lettuce in 30 minutes, because the owner told him the last mashgiach did. He does not know better. (by the way, it takes about 90 minutes, under good conditions, to soak, wash and unspect one case of average lettuce.)

You wind up with a mashgiach who does not know what he is looking at when a shipment shows up. A man who does not have the confidence to say, "Mr, Owner, let me see that BEFORE you put it away. Let me see the packing slip. One, minutes, I need to phone the rabbi and verify that this is okay."
He sees the look of anger on the owner's face, and folds. It is a game I have seen played out.

So, don't assume the "Local Vaad" is any better than the national organization. ”

“ Doesn't matter who the rav hamachshir is (well, not that much), what matters is what we klal yisrael will do to the boss.... ”

“ Mr. Supervisor,

You should get out of the hashgachah business because you're kofer in Torah and Chazal. ”

“ How come you "never liked the look of him"? Because he wasn't from "unzere"?
I ate there a few times in the summer* and had some conversations with him. He came across as a decent yid.
*(If the allegations are true, I'm going to assume "kan nimtza, kan haya" - now it was found, now is when it occured. Maybe the current economic pressures caused him to do unfortunate drastic actions) ”

“ As the owner of a restaurant I cannot understand how he even thought of getting away with it.
Unless the Rav Hamachsir never steps in to the store, how does this happen. From the pictures I've seen, he had clearly labeled non-kosher franks in his fridge. He made no attempt to hide it or sneak it in. Its obvious that he was comfortable enough knowing that the rav hamachshir will not step in.
As for a mashgiach temidi, my rav hamachshir has demanded that cameras be installed in all areas of the store, with the rav having 24/7 remote access. In case of any questions, the video can be reviewed. This solution is a lot cheaper and reliable than a mashgiach temidi.
I also believe that the suppliers have an achraios/responsibility to be involved. If a customer stops buying franks, and you see he's still selling, the rav hamachshir should be notified to inspect the source.
Once again the solution does not lay ar the ruv's feet, it needs to be every consumer's responsibility.
If you see something, say something. I recall driving by a meat restaurant once and saw in the garbage boxes from a brand that was not accepted by the rav giving hashgocha on the store. I called the mashgiach and told him about it. End of the story was that the store bought from a butcher and not direct, and the butcher just used the boxes but put the "other" meat in it. The Rav was very thankful that I called.
I also recall a story where someone walked in to the store asking about the hashgocho. After showing him the letter from the Rav, he picked up the phone and called the Rav to inquire if he indeed gave hashgocho and when he last visited the store.
What is needed is log sheet similar to one found in elevators, requiring the rav to sign everytime he visits the store. This will put pressure on the lazy mashgichim to either be responsible or get out of the business. (GD) ”

“ As the owner of a restaurant I cannot understand how he even thought of getting away with it.
Unless the Rav Hamachsir never steps in to the store, how does this happen. From the pictures I've seen, he had clearly labeled non-kosher franks in his fridge. He made no attempt to hide it or sneak it in. Its obvious that he was comfortable enough knowing that the rav hamachshir will not step in.
As for a mashgiach temidi, my rav hamachshir has demanded that cameras be installed in all areas of the store, with the rav having 24/7 remote access. In case of any questions, the video can be reviewed. This solution is a lot cheaper and reliable than a mashgiach temidi.
I also believe that the suppliers have an achraios/responsibility to be involved. If a customer stops buying franks, and you see he's still selling, the rav hamachshir should be notified to inspect the source.
Once again the solution does not lay ar the ruv's feet, it needs to be every consumer's responsibility.
If you see something, say something. I recall driving by a meat restaurant once and saw in the garbage boxes from a brand that was not accepted by the rav giving hashgocha on the store. I called the mashgiach and told him about it. End of the story was that the store bought from a butcher and not direct, and the butcher just used the boxes but put the "other" meat in it. The Rav was very thankful that I called.
I also recall a story where someone walked in to the store asking about the hashgocho. After showing him the letter from the Rav, he picked up the phone and called the Rav to inquire if he indeed gave hashgocho and when he last visited the store.
What is needed is log sheet similar to one found in elevators, requiring the rav to sign everytime he visits the store. This will put pressure on the lazy mashgichim to either be responsible or get out of the business. (GD) ”

“ How come you "never liked the look of him"? Because he wasn't from "unzere"?
I ate there a few times in the summer* and had some conversations with him. He came across as a decent yid.
*(If the allegations are true, I'm going to assume "kan nimtza, kan haya" - now it was found, now is when it occured. Maybe the current economic pressures caused him to do unfortunate drastic actions) ”

“ As the owner of a restaurant I cannot understand how he even thought of getting away with it.
Unless the Rav Hamachsir never steps in to the store, how does this happen. From the pictures I've seen, he had clearly labeled non-kosher franks in his fridge. He made no attempt to hide it or sneak it in. Its obvious that he was comfortable enough knowing that the rav hamachshir will not step in.
As for a mashgiach temidi, my rav hamachshir has demanded that cameras be installed in all areas of the store, with the rav having 24/7 remote access. In case of any questions, the video can be reviewed. This solution is a lot cheaper and reliable than a mashgiach temidi.
I also believe that the suppliers have an achraios/responsibility to be involved. If a customer stops buying franks, and you see he's still selling, the rav hamachshir should be notified to inspect the source.
Once again the solution does not lay ar the ruv's feet, it needs to be every consumer's responsibility.
If you see something, say something. I recall driving by a meat restaurant once and saw in the garbage boxes from a brand that was not accepted by the rav giving hashgocha on the store. I called the mashgiach and told him about it. End of the story was that the store bought from a butcher and not direct, and the butcher just used the boxes but put the "other" meat in it. The Rav was very thankful that I called.
I also recall a story where someone walked in to the store asking about the hashgocho. After showing him the letter from the Rav, he picked up the phone and called the Rav to inquire if he indeed gave hashgocho and when he last visited the store.
What is needed is log sheet similar to one found in elevators, requiring the rav to sign everytime he visits the store. This will put pressure on the lazy mashgichim to either be responsible or get out of the business. (GD) ”

“ So please explain why on these message boards the people from the smaller communities write that the Rabbonim seem to be able to cover up for the sexual predators within their midsts ? There is no proper oversight when there is only one game in town. ”

“ I once spoke to an old well-respected Baal Machshir and he told me that "a hechsher helps only if the owner really wants it to be kosher, otherwise even the best hechsher is meaningless."
In essence what he said is that a good hechsher starts with an honest owner who is committed to Kashrus. Even then you need all the possible safeguards to avoid potential pitfalls but it is clearly impossible to safeguard against willful premeditated deceit.
So before you eat anywhere first KNOW the owner then look at the Hashguche. ”

“ You are correct about many things. But... the cameras can be gotten around. The camera is only good with a reliable, honest owner. But, anyone who is creative and wants to beat the system, can, and this leads to temptation.

I know of a case (told to me by a supervisor from another hashgach which is stopping the reliance on cameras) where the owner had a variety of techniques to smuggle treif meat into the place right under the cameras.

I will not explain here, as there is no reason to teach how to do this to newbies who may read this, but trust me, there are ways to both do some stuff off the camera, and also even right on camera have all appear to be kosher, while actual treif meat is brought in from the outside right past the cameras.

These are the simplest, and now that I write this everyone should know to correct for this:
One place was caught, after he cheated for almost a year. The rav hamachshir noticed that one employee appeared slimmer, like a skinny man wearing clothing that is large on him when he left at the end of his shift, but did not look that skinny when he came in. It seemed that every day, he would stop at a treif market, and pick up a treif brisket, or other slab-type, meat, like a giant steak, which could be cut into 20 steak portions, etc.,, and carry it into the place wrapped in plastic, under his white chef's jacket! He used one of those wide back-brace type of belts, that you see many people wear at work to help support the steak.

He also would have this same employee, who was obviously in it, carry in some cases of products at the same time as the delivery from a certain, very well known kosher meat perveyor. The cases he was brining in looked just like those the kosher guy was carrying in, on the same type of hand truck. On the video, it looked like he was just helping the driver bring the meat in to stop him from getting a ticket. Meanwhile, those cases where coming from the owner's van 2 spaces away. All looked kosher on video. He only caught that, when he decided to check on why the guy looked too skinny at the end of the day, and had someone sit outside the place in his car, reading a book and talking on his cell phone. He saw the guy come in fat in the AM. He saw him come back when the dilivery arrived and go to the van and bring in those 5 cases on the hand truck, at the same time as the delivery from the real kosher truck. He filmed it all from his cell phone.

There are ways to beat the cameras.

I know a Mashgiach Temidi is very expensive. You know it is. I know it is.
Yes, I know with a mashgiach temidi you have no choice. You MUST raise prices.
But, it is the ONLY way to really trust the food.

Mashgiach temidi is a real need, together with his having the keys to the place and to the refrigerator/freezer locks. ”

“ How can you cover up for such a story I spoke to a witness who saw him opening up a pack of non kosher franks ”

“ If the mashgichim would be instructed to waste less time on lettuce (which we have been eating for centuries without being insanely crazy about bugs we can not see) maybe the mashgichim would have the time do their jobs properly.

How about a continuing education program for mashgichim? Wait, that won't work because we can't agree what is glatt let alone what is kosher.

Oy! ”

“ I live in an out-of-town community where there is no "restaurant culture." So, I got used to eating everything at home. Even my husband worked as a volunteer mashgiach for one of the local caterers and afterward refused to attend any event where he was serving.

It does not matter how "frum" the community is. Years ago there was a caterer in Jerusalem who provided "kishka" to all the haredim, then it was discovered that he was buying camel kishka from Arabs. ”

“ WHo are you kidding? WHo is going to be a yotzie v'nichnas at 2:30AM!! Normal people are sleeping. You can bring in boar heads and eel skins at 2 in the morning and no one is there to check. THe whole hashgacha business in the USA is phoney. If you think I am cyncial, jsut stop what you are doing and start counting up all the stories over the past 5 years. You have a slimball magid shiur peddeling treif meat, etc. etc. THis religion is fast falling apart as people are placing more emphasis on gashmius, rather than belief in the Rebbono SHel Olom. If one belived that the Rebbono shel olom will provide his needs, he would not have to resort to selling treife meat. It is these so called shomrei shabos people you have to watch out for. THe monsey scandal proves it. ”

“ WHo are you kidding? WHo is going to be a yotzie v'nichnas at 2:30AM!! Normal people are sleeping. You can bring in boar heads and eel skins at 2 in the morning and no one is there to check. THe whole hashgacha business in the USA is phoney. If you think I am cyncial, jsut stop what you are doing and start counting up all the stories over the past 5 years. You have a slimball magid shiur peddeling treif meat, etc. etc. THis religion is fast falling apart as people are placing more emphasis on gashmius, rather than belief in the Rebbono SHel Olom. If one belived that the Rebbono shel olom will provide his needs, he would not have to resort to selling treife meat. It is these so called shomrei shabos people you have to watch out for. THe monsey scandal proves it. ”

“ oh no not again! ”

“ WHo are you kidding? WHo is going to be a yotzie v'nichnas at 2:30AM!! Normal people are sleeping. You can bring in boar heads and eel skins at 2 in the morning and no one is there to check. THe whole hashgacha business in the USA is phoney. If you think I am cyncial, jsut stop what you are doing and start counting up all the stories over the past 5 years. You have a slimball magid shiur peddeling treif meat, etc. etc. THis religion is fast falling apart as people are placing more emphasis on gashmius, rather than belief in the Rebbono SHel Olom. If one belived that the Rebbono shel olom will provide his needs, he would not have to resort to selling treife meat. It is these so called shomrei shabos people you have to watch out for. THe monsey scandal proves it. ”

“ Gee VIN! Thanks for the update. We should all feel better now because this store sent a brand new shaigetz to buy franks. There is NO chance that a store who does something so irresponsible upkeeps kosher standards at all times.

Tartikov Ruv has a lot to answer for. ”

“ If its not true as they say how come I have tumtum halev? ”

“ excuse me rabbi babad?
since when is it allowed for an establishment to go next door and buy food supplies?

this is the first defense rule? the stores should only be able to pruchase form a wholesaler and this way everything can be verfiied via invoices.

if you allow any purchase to happen at any store via any employee shlichos you are asking for trouble and lowering the standard of your hecsher?

oNCE again RABBI BABAD - what are your mashgichim doing??? what are your rules????? ”

“ That works only when you have unity in hashgachos. Every Tom, Dick and Harry gives a hashgacha, many having no clue as to how to run and or administer a kosher program.

Part of the problem lies with the consumers because they accept and tolerate this proliferation in hashgachos. "Out of town" where there is one Va'ad giving hashgachos you rarely hear of these scandals. ”

“ I cry ! Have ordered lunch in the past from him, never liked the look from this new owner. Allways had this thinking in my head that who knows if he cares about kashrus. I guess I was rite. ”

“ started from a humen error and is an isolated incident, no trief meat was ever sold at chesky's it is 100 ”

“ started from a humen error and is an isolated incident, no trief meat was ever sold at chesky's it is 100 ”

“ I guess we could see from here that YOU, the public, needs to be alert. WE can only do so much but we need YOU as well. ”

“ Since when is the KRM open at 3:00am???????
something doesn't smell Kosher. ”

“ This is what happend when Hasgacha is a business first, and other things second... or last. It's all about the benjamins. ”

“ Does this store have any connection to Schwarma King in Monticello? ”

“ This would not happen if the Rav Hamachshir would match the invoices to the sales.
It is a basic part of kashrus supervision. ”

“ these franks are only sold at big chain supermarkets according to their website. ”

“ Instead of spouting your stupidity and hatred of kashrus, why not think the facts are as we may be seeing them?

If they wanted to serve treif CVH, they could have gotten DOZENS of dogs.

They send a gruba sheygits out to get dogs. They should perhaps not have done that bind hindsite is 20/20.

WIth Si'yata Dishmaya it was BH caught and nothing happened. ”

“ How can we rely on anonymous "witnesses" on the internet who say that an establishment is treif? Is it kosher to bring down someone's business based on hearsay? ”

“ say good bye to this store...no yiras shomayim will ever eat here again...say goodbye to tartikov hechsher...hechsheiris became too much of a commercial business...giving hechsherim to just anyone who is willing to pay...we should organize an independent organization as volunteers (like may organizations we ka"h have)with yugeleit yirei shomayim should post their ratings on stores ,mashgichim and hechsheirim...enough with the michsholos...yidishe nefoshos should not be sacrificed by people who have in mind money. ”

“ here is some questions
1.what was the name of the store that the empployee purchased the treife franks?
2.If KRM is right around the corner how far did the employee go to purchase one package of franks?
3.how new is this employee is it the first time hewas sent out to purchase meat?
4. where was the mashgiach ???
dosent he have to account for all food coming in?
5.at wut point did they notice the mistake?it seems that a customer is the one who caught it not the mashiach not the store owner not the chef how do we know it wasn't served
6.if it wasn't served did it end up on the grill and treif up the establishment??
we need answers not excuses!!! ”

“ This new version of last night's story is FABRICATED to cover up what really happened. There was AT LEAST one opened, empty pack of hot dogs that had clearly been served to customers. Enough said.

I can't believe VIN is putting this cover-up out there.
”

“ Where there's smoke there's fire. If it stinks, something is rotten. Non-kosher franks in a "glatt" kosher establishment is an outrage under any circumstance, much more so in the middle of the night. An allegedly new non-Jewish employee is given the otherwise trustworthy mission of independently purchasing meat from the street is a story that is not acceptable. The white-wash story stinks. The kashrus status of the store stinks. The reputation right now of the up-to-now respectable kashrus certification entity stinks. Fat chance you'll ever catch me or any other discerning kosher consumer in that establishment. ”

“ Why do they need technitions to examine the video? Isn't the video there for the Mashgiachs to watch it instead of a mashgiach temidi as a form of spot checking? ”

“ oh no not again! ”