New York – Orthodoxy, Then And Now

    48

    New York – Rabbi Yosef Yitzchok Schneersohn was the sixth Lubavitcher Rebbe (widely known as the Frierdiker – Yiddish for “previous” – Rebbe). He served in that position for 30 years, from 1920 until his passing on Shabbos morning, January 28, 1950. He was buried at Montefiore Cemetery in Queens, New York.

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    Recently, someone sent me a link to a video clip of his levaya. From the clip one can see a number of external differences between Orthodoxy circa 1950 and Orthodoxy today.

    First, most of the men in the crowd are wearing hats and coats that are not black. Indeed, gray seems to have been the favored color for men’s hats at the time.

    Second, the majority of the men shown are clean shaven.

    Third, men and women are standing together in the crowd. Apparently, no separation of the sexes was imposed upon those gathered to give the Rebbe a final tribute.

    In short, this assemblage does not look anything like what one would see today at the funeral of a well-known rebbe or rosh yeshiva.

    Orthodox Judaism was indeed different in 1950.

    Yeshiva education was just beginning to expand, and a large number of elementary yeshiva graduates went on to public high school. Fewer went on to study in a bais medrash after high school, and fewer still entered kollel. The average level of Torah knowledge among baalei batim was nowhere near as high as it is today.

    A relatively small percentage of women covered their hair. Mixed dancing was still part of the social life of many Orthodox shuls. There was little separation of the sexes, so boys and girls more often than not interacted with each other at social gatherings. The dating system so prevalent in our day was not followed by most young Orthodox men and women. (Some might argue that this was a plus.)

    It was indeed a very different Orthodox world.

    Today we can point to many improvements. These include, but are certainly not limited to, a probably unprecedented commitment to and level of Torah study on the part of Orthodox young people; a considerably higher level of tzinius – modesty – in many circles; a sharp increase in daily synagogue attendance; stricter kashrus standards, including the use of chalav Yisrael products, by many; a proliferation of chesed organizations; a more stringent approach to shmiras Shabbos by those who consider themselves Orthodox; and a surprising number of Mincha minyanim – a phenomenon that hardly existed years ago – in some cities.

    Each of us can undoubtedly add more items to this list. But there’s no denying the fact that today, more careful attention is given to the performance of mitzvos – some of which were often neglected in the fifties.

    * * *

    The above is indeed good news for Orthodoxy. Still, there are those who feel there is much missing from today’s Orthodoxy. They decry what they believe is an unhealthy focus on appearances and chumros at the expense of good middos and ehrlichkeit.

    Many who project the image of being very frum seem at the same time to be overly concerned with materialism.

    True, more women cover their hair today, but some seem to think nothing of spending a small fortune on a shaitel. Only the finest name-brand apparel will do for many families. It is not uncommon to see an observant man driving a car that costs as much as some people make in a year.

    Emphasis on form at the expense of substance seems to be in vogue; image is all important to far too many. Some of our children have come to think that this emphasis on externalities is the acid test of religious observance.

    A friend of mine once told me that after his children had viewed the wedding album of his parents, they asked, “Abba, were Bobby and Zaidy Jewish when they got married?”

    There are other real differences between the nature of Orthodoxy in the 1950s and Orthodoxy today.

    Chillul Hashem – desecration of God’s name – has become all too prevalent. I cringe whenever I see the media report on so-called frum Jews in an unflattering light. I am not implying that there was no wrongdoing years ago. There certainly was.

    Nonetheless, it seems that what has transpired with far too much regularity in recent years has resulted in a most unflattering light being trained on Orthodox Jews.

    In his essay “Chillul Hashem,” first published in 1975 in the periodical Mitteilungen and reprinted on pages 213 to 216 of Selected Writings (C.I.S. Publications, 1988), Rav Shimon Schwab, zt”l, wrote:

    The second sentence of Sh’ma Yisroel begins with the command: “You shall love Hashem,” which is interpreted by our Sages: “Let the name of Hashem become beloved through you.” In other words, we are supposed to lead the kind of exemplary life which would contribute to the universal adoration of [Hashem] and which would, in turn, enhance the glory and lustre of the Torah, adding respect for the dignity of the Jewish people as a Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation.

    The very opposite of the sanctification is the desecration of the Name as condemned by the Prophet with the scathing words (Yechezkel 36): “They came to the nations and desecrated my Holy Name, so that one said to them, is this the people of [Hashem] who came from His land?”

    Every form of Chillul Hashem lowers the awareness of the Divine Presence in the world. But if the desecrator happens to be a professed Torah observer or, even worse, a so-called scholar of the Torah, then the Chillul Hashem not only weakens the respect for Torah on one hand, but strengthens on the other hand the defiance of the non-observer and adds fuel to the scoffers, fanning the fires of religious insurrection all around. Chillul Hashem is responsible, directly or indirectly, for the increase of frivolity, heresy and licentiousness in the world.

    * * *

    Respect for one’s elders seems to have become a thing of the past for many young people. One even encounters so-called frum adults who appear to have never learned that derech eretz toward one’s fellow man and woman should be part and parcel of one’s dealings with others.

    The Torah commands us to honor our parents, our older siblings and older people in general. Indeed, Rav Samson Raphael Hirsch pointed out that honoring parents is one of the foundation stones of Yahadus, because our basis for accepting the truth of the Torah is something that is passed on from one generation to the next.

    When I was growing up (I was born in 1941), it was made very clear to me that you never called an adult by his or her first name. It was always “Mr.” or “Mrs.” or “Miss” or “Aunt” or “Uncle.” Calling an older person by his or her first name would instantly result in a rebuke from my parents.

    Today I often hear children call their adult aunts or uncles by their first names. Some years ago one of my sons had a classmate over for Shabbos. (The boys were 10 years old at the time.) After Shabbos I asked our guest what he was going to do now, since his parents had gone away. He replied, “I am going to call Shloime. He will pick me up.” I asked, “Who is Shloime?” The boy replied, “My uncle.” I was taken aback at how this young man thought nothing of calling his uncle, who was, of course, an adult, by his first name.

    I have asked people in their twenties and thirties and even older why they let themselves be called by their first names. They reply, “Being called ‘Uncle’ (or ‘Aunt’) makes me feel old.” They do not seem to realize that they are doing a disservice to their nieces and nephews. Allowing them to address older people by their first names fosters the idea that everyone is on an equal level. This is not true. The Torah tells us that age deserves respect, and children have to be made aware of this as often as possible.

    And then there are the youngsters who push ahead of me when I am about to leave shul. Often I put my hand on the shoulder of such a fellow and say to him, somewhat facetiously, “Sir! I believe that I am a bit older than you are!” More often than not the young man has no idea what I am talking about.

    I was taught that you always let an older person go through a door before you. It was just one more part of practicing derech eretz, but it seems to have been lost in many circles today.

    Unfortunately, lack of derech eretz is widespread, and it evidences itself in the way all too many children and youngsters behave in yeshiva and Bais Yaakov. Fifty years ago the overwhelming majority of Orthodox parents made it very clear to their children that a key ingredient in going to yeshiva was behaving properly and treating the teachers with respect. Why is this not also the case today?

    * * *

    Could it be that we have become lost in the forest for the trees? While we may be outwardly more observant than people were a generation or two ago, some would maintain that our grandparents embraced far more menschlichkeit and ehrlichkeit than we see today. Their Yiddishkeit seems to have been simpler and more to the point than ours often is.

    Our grandparents were able to transmit their Yiddishkeit in a fairly simple fashion. One might summarize their teachings as follows: Be a mensch, learn Torah, and make the most of every minute of every day. Keep in mind that people are watching you and they will judge Yiddishkeit by how you behave, so make sure that whatever you do is viewed as a kiddush Hashem – a sanctification of God’s name. Be sure to become self-sufficient through honest labor and contribute to the community at large. And, above all, be ehrlich in all of your dealings with others.

    This message was clear and straightforward, and it led to the rebuilding of Yiddishkeit after the terrible loses that we experienced during the Holocaust. The guidance our grandparents gave their children kept them from the confusing blend of halacha, minhag, chumrah and common practice that has left too many today groping for an understanding of what is important and what is not. There were no mixed messages about what they taught the next generation, because they lived these values each and every day of their lives.

    Another area in which we are sadly lacking today is that of mesiras nefesh. For some, the notion of sacrifice hardly seems to exist anymore. One can only wonder how they would react if confronted with the challenges our parents and grandparents faced in the 1950s.

    No one should desire or look for tests. Still, in light of the current financial situation that is creating such difficulties for so many, now is perhaps the time for each of us to evaluate the substance upon which our religious observance is based. What should be the basis of our relationship to Hashem? How should our actions and values reflect our relationship to the Creator?

    Rav Hirsch gives us insight into this. In his commentary on Shemos 20:9 – “Six days shall you serve and do all your [creating] work” – he wrote:

    Not for your own glory should you do your work, by which you rule over the world. You should regard your work as “service,” service in God’s kingdom, done in the service of God. Do your work at His bidding and for the sake of His world, in which He has placed you, “to serve it and to keep it.” By appropriating, transforming and altering the world’s resources, you are to elevate this world from blind physical compulsion to the purpose of moral freedom and the service of God in freedom. [The Hirsch Chumash, Sefer Shemos, (New) English Translation by Daniel Haberman, Feldheim Publishers and Judaica Press, 2005.]

    Rav Hirsch goes on to comment on Shemos 20:14 – “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, his servant, his maidservant, his ox, his donkey, or anything else that belongs to your neighbor”:

    All “religion” and all “worship of God in heart and spirit” are worthless if they lack the power to control our words and deeds, our family life and social life. Only through our actions and way of life can we prove that we are truly and genuinely God’s servants. Conversely, all social virtue is worthless and crumbles at the first test, as long as it aims merely at outward correctness and at doing what is right in the eyes of man, but neglects inner loyalty and does not base itself on conscientiousness and on the purity of inner conviction, which only God can see and judge. [Ibid.]

    Striving to accomplish this means maintaining the higher level of mitzvah observance we see today combined with the values of our grandparents. The result will be a more meaningful synthesis of externalities and our connection to Hashem, giving us the best of both worlds – in other words, a Yiddishkeit our grandparents would be proud of, and nothing less than a kiddush Hashem.

    Dr. Yitzchok Levine recently retired after serving for forty years as a professor in the Department of Mathematical Sciences at Stevens Institute of Technology, Hoboken, New Jersey. His regular Jewish Press column, “Glimpses Into American Jewish History,” appears the first week of each month. Dr. Levine can be contacted at [email protected].


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    48 Comments
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    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    The people in 1950 didn’t look like their parents either. They all came to America themselves and started from scratch. To their credit they build beautiful doros, in many instances the kids are Frummer than their parents. What got lost was the temimas and erlichkeit that is much easier to pass on when you live in a shtetl. If you look at pre-war Europe cities they were no less materialistic than we are. Only the shtetlech and derflech had a purer level of yiddishkeit.

    Barry
    Barry
    15 years ago

    *****
    5 STARS!
    Thanks VIN for posting this beautiful article!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Nostalgia or lamentation. Rav Yitzchok Hutner would wear a straw hat in the summer and it was white. Our Jewish society, for better or worse, reflects greater society. My father, obm, would dress in a suit and tie to go to teach in public school. When the students started dressing down, so did he. Not to be sympathetic with them, but why should he dress up when there was no incentive to do so. Admins didn’t care, parents were dressed like their kids. Dr. Levine is correct using words such as striving. We look in the mirror and we are satisfied. We take on things that we don’t fully comprehend because it wouldn’t look good when compared to our neighbors to be less. But we don’t strive to have the insides look like the outside. Bubbe and Zayde lived with the same amount of gashmiyus that we do. A Rambler versus a Cadillac or a Phillco versus an RCA. Do I go to A&S or to Loehman’s? Some truly handwrung over the choices because they had choices. We have a choice, as we always had a choice, ask what Hashem wants from me and to act acccordingly. That’s standing on both feet.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    The biggest problem in our generation is: you should feel gilty; you’re not the real Jew, so tank you VIN you’re the best!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    In Rav Moshe’s zt”l biography, they discuss this exact question. “How is that you allowed people in your community to be clean shaven or have mixed seating and even mixed dancing at weddings”. His answer was incredible to me. He said we were at a time where Judaism was almost dead. The remnants of the Holocaust had been pulled from the fire and the majority were not interested in practicing Yiddishkite. We made a few exceptions that were not against halacha but allowed people to feel more connected. Today he went on to say, thank G-D we live in much stronger Jewish times and as such we are supposed to re adopt the customs we put aside.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Every man wore a hat back then, but as is clear in the video, the frum men are indeed wearing balck hats.

    PMO
    PMO
    15 years ago

    This may be the most honest look at our community I’ve ever seen. This should be required reading for everyone. Thank you so much.

    Great Article
    Great Article
    15 years ago

    This is an important article that deserves profound reflection. This generation can learn a lot from considering the important points made in this article. Present-day Orthodox leadership should promote and implement the lessons presented here.

    black hatter out of town
    black hatter out of town
    15 years ago

    how dumb whats your point….(now what)

    Learn Chassidus
    Learn Chassidus
    15 years ago

    The previous Lubavitcher Rebbe and in fact all the Lubavitcher Rebbeim said that Pnimius HaTorah, the way explained in Chassidus, is what brings out the Neshomo , Ahavas Hashem and Irhas Hashem that maybe many on previous generations had it as a given.
    We have to work on it by learning and applying the principals of Chassidus.
    Start by learning Taniah.
    The Rebbe used to say about this the posuk “taamu Urehu Kitov Hashem” Farzucht, vet ir zen az Der oibershter is goot.
    Taste and you will see that Hashem is good.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Unfortunatly, the cause is that our chinuch system hasn’t really battled these aspects of secular sociaty. I had been in chinuch for 5 years and got out as quickly as possible. It didn’t take long to realize something was terribly wrong with the general derech eretz of our youth. Reactions from the administration ranged from avoidance to outright denial. My first year I went to the principal for guidance and got answers such as “What? talking in class? No, there is no acceptable level of talking in class, no matter how quiet. Just go around and peek in some of our classrooms and you’ll see”. Indeed, I checked and saw much talking as if there were no rebbe in the room. I subsequently asked a number of other rebbeim who commented “He had the chutzpa to say that to your face?” While talking when the rebbe is talking doesn’t go on all the time or even most of the time, I mention his anecdote as an example of how many in charge of our children take their resposibilities. Most rebbeim TRULY do what they can. However, with limited authority there is only so much they can do. Blame lays clearly at the feet of those who do have the authority to really change the system and do something, but out of fear from parents who may stop supporting the school and/or (gasp!) remove their children and send them to the “other” school. Pacification has become the rule. P.R. considerations have come first over chinuch way too often. I believe a real change in our chinuch system will lead towards repairing the problems mentioned in the article.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    Thank you VIN for bringing this to the attention of many Yidden. While I do not agree with some of what is brought forth, the majority is right on target. The Jews from Europe who arrived in this country and Canada were no less Frum than today’s generation. They, perhaps were not so farnimen with the chumros that were brought over by the later immigration of Hungarians in the 50’s. Either the meat was Kosher or it was Treif, PERIOD! Respect of elders has all but disapeared. The writers brings forth that not everyone went to Yesheivas and higher Jewish education. I think that again was a carryover from Europe. True there were not as many Yesheivas in the US in the 40’s & 50″s, but there were many in pre-war Europe and not every Jewish young man went to Yesheiva. Why, because not everyone was suited to go to Yesheiva. The same thing is parralled in Secular Higher Education. For example, CCNY (for those of you not old enough to know City College New York) was a very prestigous college with a very high academic standard of admission. Today the school must teach remedial English to a large number of its students since the open addmission policy. The same holds true for Yesheivas, not every boy should be enrolled, we need to stop trying to JAM A SQUARE PEG INTO A ROUND HOLE! In the past most yooung people were tought a trade or skill to be self sufficent. Today we beleive that self sufficiancy means having wealth parents or inlaws. This is not the way it should be done.One reader states that we always had materialistic choice and he is correct, this is not a new discovery. We as Yidden were not so farnimen with wether we wore a Borsalino or not, if our stroller were the proper brand or where our bungalow was. My summer bungalow was on the fire escape and it was perfectly good. I ran errands for the Neighbors Mr or MRS so & so and would get a tip for helping out. I ws taguht to save and not envy what yenim had. And no I am not a product of a Yesheiva, but I am a Shomer Shabbos and was brought up that way, I like to do mitzvahs that help people, like Bikkur Cholim in hospitals and food banks etc, not having a light bar on my car and running around like a crazy person with a 100 keys tangling from my belt with 2 phones & a PDA. No I can’t quote a Blat GEmorrah, but I do daven and I do learn to the best of my ability and I do support myself and not ask anyone for help. And I do respect my elders, when I encounter one, but that is getting less & less common. What I have seen in these younger generations is very disturbing even from Rabbonim who are supposed to know better, they are disrespectful, self appreciating, self centered and farnimen mit klineikeit. Perhaps you can learn from the older generations. I am sure we have not done as good a job as our parents. I pray that you will do a better one, however from what I see today I am frightened that you will not. Please prove me wrong. Learn from previous generations. Loose the Givah & learn Anivos. It better suits us!

    Anon.
    Anon.
    15 years ago

    This article is beautiful and i hope it starts a trend!

    I am a Lubavitcher. Too young to have been at the Levaya in the video, but i have had the zchus to hear from those who were there.

    Here’s an interesting footnote to the article. One of the rabbis I’ve learned from was Harav Shalom Gordon. He was a shliach of the previous Rebbe and also one of – if not the – first bachurim to grow a beard in Yeshiva in America . Compared to the “messiras nefesh” of today, that was enormous.

    They lived in an era where most Jews wanted out of yiddishkeit and “being different”. Those who maintained were amazing people and deserve a far more credit than we give them.

    So, the way i see it, there’s a very strong “relativity” factor here. And it boils down to “are we going up or are we going down”? Are we mixing men and women at a levaya because we’re letting down our standards or are we not separating them because we’re in awe that after all that generation witnessed, they still show up to a Torah giant’s levaya at all?

    Were they wearing grey hats and not black to be modern or were they wearing hats – and that itself was a miracle?

    I remember seeing an early letter from the (seventh) Rebbe, ZY”O, where someone had written to him asking that he help enforce a rule that women should not come to the bigger levayas. The Rebbe’s answer was, something to the effect of – now is not a time to create new chumros, now is a time to help people participate.

    Another interesting note: Chaza”l say that the day the Septuagint (targum shivim) was written was as harsh as the day the eigel hazahav was made. Yet, today, we put tons of money and energy into translating as much of Torah as possible.

    The difference is obvious: Then, translating the Torah created a pathway out of yiddishkeit and into assimilation R”L. Today translating Torah creates a pathway into Yiddishkeit and a cure for assimilation.

    Me’inyan le’inyan b’oso inyan, the ripple effect of those ehrliche yidden is absolutely amazing. This same Rabbi Shalom Gordon was Mekareiv so many people who today are very important figures in the Jewish world. For example, one of the children he pulled out of public school and sent to yeshiva is today arguably the most important (non-chabad) figure in disseminating Torah in English!! (If he wants to be Makir Tovah and at the same time bridge some of the divide in the Frum world he can make his identity known, but it’s not my place to do so.)

    In any case, my suggestion would be for VIN to start a biographical series of some of the “ordinary” Jews of the last few generations and show what they went through so we could have the luxury of “doing yiddishkeit right”. Maybe that would help us to stop squandering the gifts we’re given and get back to growing out zehirus and stop shrinking it!!

    Yasher Koach again for the article.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    I’m old enough to remember when someone was called an “ehrlicher yid” it didn’t mean he davened a 15 minute shmone esrei, but it meant he was an honest yid.
    To anonymous at 10:01. frum yidden wore hats that were of various colors. Rabbonim wore black hats and chassidim also did. The “black hat” is a phenomenon that started in the late 60’s and early 70’s.
    Back then, the emphasis on looking frum didn’t yet exist; being frum was what was important.

    yossele
    yossele
    15 years ago

    Well done. This is why we lose so many of our young these recent years…

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    “Rav Yitzchok Hutner would wear a straw hat in the summer and it was white. “
    R’ Dovid Feinstein Shlit”a STILL wears a straw hat in the summer.

    anon
    anon
    15 years ago

    Good piece. My mother used to say: Better a Jew without a beard than a beard without a Jew

    A Litvishe Yid
    A Litvishe Yid
    15 years ago

    Isn’t the founder of ArtScroll a Baal Teshuva/Mekurov of Rabbi Gordon?
    from what I know Rabbi Gordon used to shlep him out of Public School and learn with him about Yidishkeit.
    How amazing was the vision of the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZY”A.
    Who could imagine what one person could accomplish.

    Askupeh
    Askupeh
    15 years ago

    The author is right that Orthodoxy has changed from 1950 to 2009, but I would call it “Achsher Dora”. True that they had more Pnimiyis of being a Yid and the grey hat didn’t diminish any of it, but today in OUR crazy world CHITZONIYIS is extremely important, because the winds are blowing very hard. We are in the DIGITAL age where anyone who has access to a computer, (and who doesn’t?) is bombarded with Nisyoines “Asher loi Sheorim Avoiseinu”. The Nisyoiness to destroy the Neshoma with Taivess ro’ois and to enter ALL Nun Sharei Tumeh is unbearable. The Nisyoiness to destroy the Neshoma with “Deyois Kozvois” and Kefira Mamesh is also unbearable. The Gemora tells us that “Arboah Nechness Lepardes” Four great men entered the “Pardess” and only one, Rebbi Akiva made it out Besholom. Our generation is enveloped, encased, encompassed and enwrapped with EVERYTHING OUT THERE”, so how is a Yid to stay Frum and Ehrlich? That’s why we need a lot of Chitzoniyis, for the chitzoiniyis to be Mashpia the Pnimiyis. When the wind is getting stonger, more and more coats are needed. There is an old Yiddish saying that “der eppela folt nisht vite fun der boim” but that is only when there is no wind. The stronger the winds will be blowing the more the Chitzoinyis need to become. Sure we shouldn’t use Chitzoiniyis as the end, only as a means to an end.

    Another point. The author is comparing 1950 to today; but if we were to compare 1950 to Yiddishkeit in 1900 or even in 1939 in Europe, we would have to conclude that Yiddishkeit is getting better. Some say that World War II moved post-war Judaism TEN generations. Could be that we have retraced back three of them; no easy feat for which we should be proud.

    berel
    berel
    15 years ago

    to long to explain why white straw hats were worn (not that its wrong), ladies with uncovered hair, women among men etc…see a picture of ame situation in ‘ale heim’ then and you’ll see adifferent picture…this was addressed by someone a few days ago in differenet article(pluggig big or small holes)ant thats whats it all about. if you can reprint…men paskened nit fun kein pictures…

    Yerachmiel
    Yerachmiel
    15 years ago

    The commentors above who claim that Yiddishkeit in “der alter heim” was a lot more strict than Orthodoxy in America in the 1950s and 60s are plain wrong. There are numerous photos around of Litvish yeshivas in the 1920s and 30s in Europe where the men are clean-shaven, wearing sporty white or gray hats, no suits, etc. Some of the finest European yeshivas insisted that their talmidim read a secular newspaper every day. And of course back then no one heard of “glatt.’ So please, learn some history rather than just swallowing what your 5th grade rebbi told you.

    moishie
    moishie
    15 years ago

    Bi’Ikvesa Di’Meshicha Chutzpa Yasgi.
    How many children today have aunts and uncles younger than they are? How many play with young uncles still in elementary school perhaps slightly older but close in age? Where do we draw the line when the generation gap is not necessarily there? Does a single older girl address her younger but married sister-in-law as Mrs. ____?
    Now what do the siblings close in age do? How about 5-10 years younger….? With large families it’s difficult to draw the line. The lack of Derech Eretz spreads, including when parents show a lack of respect for Rebbeim and Teachers.

    Let’s not forget the mishna in Avos: Eizehu Mechubad? Hamechabeid Es Habrios. As the Gerrer Rebbe said it by the Knessiah Gedolah a half century ago when they tried to demand respect for Rabbonim: A Mechubad is min Mechabed.

    Friediker Rebbes Levaya
    Friediker Rebbes Levaya
    15 years ago

    The man that took this film was Rabbi Elye Gross, A”H. I remember this well.

    zev
    zev
    15 years ago

    Our bein odom lamokom is better but our bein odom lachaveiro is worst,we are more frum but less ehrlich.

    yankel
    yankel
    15 years ago

    to #31 ..if think you less ehrlich keep it to your self the rest ..did you take a survey..and do you knoe personally that everybody of days bygone wre prfect…maybe look thru tsuveh seforim of last couple hundred years even hundreds years ago ,tsuvahs rashbe, rivosh seems humanity was never perfect ,so please there were always all kinds

    Perspective is needed
    Perspective is needed
    15 years ago

    When most Yidden immigrated to the US in the 1800s they were dirt poor. After the Shoah they were dirt poor. There was no college education. Even the 12th grade education was higher education. Except for the elite in major European Cities, most Yidden were poor workers and laborers. Period. They worked and to the extent of their mishpuchas frumkeit they passed their family mesorah over to the next generation. Regarding hats it must be recalled that until President Kennedy took office, every man in the USA wore a hat. It was part of the fashion. Black was as good as grey. In the summer white was worn. Today we have a frum fashion industry, a frum music industry, a frum food industry, a frum education industry….
    Today, everything is a business and everything is done to make money. There is no penimius. All is chitzonius today. This is why my Zeide is always angry at me and my brother. We are so different from what he knew.

    simon
    simon
    15 years ago

    Thank you for the interesting info #13 there were other Shluchim of the Frerdiker Rebbe as well

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    15 years ago

    they did not have videos on 1950

    FAVEL
    FAVEL
    15 years ago

    to #29 that was the holy satmer rebbes vort regarding irving bunimz’tl when sombody when a chusid asked ,ahem, about him (I. B).. so the rebbe told him from hom , I. B., THEY’LL ASK YID VEE IS DEIN BURD, FUN DIER VET MEN FRAGEN ‘BURD SEE IS DE YID’

    cranberry stuffer
    cranberry stuffer
    15 years ago

    As a child growing up in Crown heights, I must say Dr. levin is totally off. In those days CH was considered one of the most beautiful frum communities in America, however at least half the yidden, if not more, were not frum (when I say frum I mean on the most basic level of orthodoxy as in not driving on shabbos). I have many friends that there parents were frum, even to some extend moser nefesh for shabbos, but they themselves are far from observant. The 50’s and 60’s were far from a bed of roses. We had plenty of ‘erlecheh’ ganovim then also. (I honestly believe there were ganavim with long beards also in the days of chazal , but Dr. Levin wants to portray this as a recent yerida of orthodoxy. The yetzer hara is older than all of us, he goes back to Adam harishon).
    I would imagine the funeral of the Rebbe ZY”A was attended by almost every Jewish resident of CH (and lots of other areas in NY) regardless of how frum they were.
    We had plenty of michutzafim back in cheder then too. Our melamdim were poor and untrained and constantly hitting. I do agree we had a real fear of our parents, in our days petch was given liberally.
    There is no question in my mind that the state of orthodoxy is much better today than in the 50’s.

    Simcha
    Simcha
    15 years ago

    #30 Yerachmiel, I would advise you to look in the Kovetz Igros of the Chazon Ish zt”l chelek alef tshuva kuf tzadik ches, where he discusses the subject of shaving he writes “that he remembers the issur from the previous generation when it was equivalent to going bareheaded in the street! and even though the disease (his word) has spread amongst the “Toranim” nothing has changed because of this”. So please, learn some history rather than just swallowing what you see in a picture. Regarding glatt, it might not have been prevalent but it existed and the purpose was to remove the tremendous pressure on the Rov to be machshir the sircha(os). The glatt we have is not real glatt anyway, if it has only a few sirchos it’s called glatt, zero sirchos is called Bais Yosef glatt.

    matzahlocal101
    matzahlocal101
    15 years ago

    Among the items that writer fails to pint out and argueably more important are:
    1) many of the peopel in the film are visibly pained by the loss of a gadol biyisroel. Not like today where people can be seen jaking at levayas, particularly school children, happy to get the day off.
    2) Other yeshivas excused their students to go to the levaya of a gadol from a different stripe. Not like today where, with rare exception, Litvishe yeshivas wouldn’t be mevatal toirah to go to the levaya of a chasidishe rav or rebbe, and vice versa.
    3) People are there because THEY felt the need to be melava a gadol biyisroel, not because somebody told them to go or because of “what will the joneses say if we don’t go.
    Yes a lot has changed.

    chaim
    chaim
    15 years ago

    to #45 can you refer whareyou saw such ‘reasoning’?thats your own garbage, the whole concept of maris ein is botel …take yorah deyah bosor becholov…one should not eat almond milk with meat maris ein what ‘a yid to chosed to consume boser becholv’ and so with all.its unbelievable how many posters all over that are toileh on the ‘igros moshe’ bike serika…by the way all holy tzaddikim past and present said the tho whole ‘paoh nochris’ has no pshat. also by adding the word ‘clssically’ it doesnt become more believable

    It's just human nature
    It's just human nature
    14 years ago

    As a modern orthodox Jew who is not a money person (by this I mean that I don’t have the temperament required to make a lot of money in this crazy society), I have been watching the materialistic tendencies of the new york metro orthodox Jewish world for many, many years. It’s no different than the society around us, and as humans, we can’t help but be influenced by it. We are social beings. This trend will end only when people really suffer financially, as they are beginning to now, in this recession. Orthodox, non-Orthodox, Jewish, non-Jewish – rampant materialism and greed is a function of human nature. And the kicker is, we’d like to think we’re above that because we are yeshiva educated and observe torah and mitzvos. It reminds me of what we learn each year on Tisha B’Av, over and over again, and in fact what Moshe warned B’nei Yisrael about before they were to enter Eretz Yisrael – most of them will fail to be faithful to the lofty ideals of the torah, and ultimately only a remnant of the Jews will survive and be gathered in from exile.

    We still rent an apartment, something that is frowned upon in many rich suburban orthodox communities. It means you’re not as good as those who have more financially, plain and simple. What is particularly striking about this attitude is that along with all these materialistic trends, it has become acceptable for Jews to rip off other Jews. I am referring to frum real estate agents who have no qualms about encouraging Jews to pay an extra $100K or more for a house, when compared to the surrounding neighborhood, just because it’s in the eruv. Indeed, it is expected! After all, how can the real estate agent afford to keep his/her kids in yeshiva, live in a beautiful home within the eruv, and drive a fancy car! No one in these communities would ever dream of living in a rented apartment rather than a single family home so that they could afford yeshiva tuition. According to a friend of mine who grew up in one of these communities, this is just “not done.” So the parents in these homes become “machines” who work like crazy to make enough money to keep up with the Schwartzes. This is destroying people and families. The stress must be unbearable. But, until circumstances force them to change, they will do everything they can to keep up appearances.