“ Belz is always the first to come out with graet plans... ”

“ Great to be addressing this problem, but isn't 25,000 for a wedding still a huge amount of money? And why do the parents have to buy the apartment? Why don't the kids work, pay rent, and save up to buy a home? ”

“ Belz is always the first to come out with graet plans... ”

“ yeh like shatnes in talisim etc. ”

“ Belz is always the first to come out with graet plans... ”

“ yeh like shatnes in talisim etc. ”

“ In E"Y there's very few rentals. Almost all apartments are owned. ”

“ the problem is that the majority of chareidy men in eretz yisroel are unemployed, don't make a living, and still expect to raise a family and marry off their children as their parents (who worked very hard and were not less "chushuv") did in the US or Europe. The only way things will change if there is a change in the "system". we need better education, vocational opportunities , and a shift in outlook. what happened to the sechel hayoshor of the yesteryear. if we dont change, it will get worse, and we will end up with socialism, regulating prices , buying in bulk, etc... its not the Torah way and reduces the tzelem elokim of individuality.... ”

“ thank you very much.

but please dont force it down our throuths ”

“ This is a good start but the ignores the most obvious issues. First, why does the girl's family have to pay nearly TWICE the amount as the bochur's family? That makes no sense. Both should contribute equally or in accordance to their means.

Secondly, the rabbonim should probably get 2/3 or more of these bochurim out of full time attendance atkolels and yeshivas. There should be NO Chassanehs allowed unless the mechutan has a parnassah (aka "a job"). ”

“ In E"Y there's very few rentals. Almost all apartments are owned. ”

“ thank you very much.

but please dont force it down our throuths ”

“ yeh like shatnes in talisim etc. ”

“ #12..SO GO AHEAD AND MAKE WEDDINF OR LESS...TELL US THE DETAILS AND WE'LL FOLLOW.. ”

“ #12..SO GO AHEAD AND MAKE WEDDINF OR LESS...TELL US THE DETAILS AND WE'LL FOLLOW.. ”

“ The Belzer rebbe did NOT deliberately distribute Turkish Taleism with shatnes...it wa s big accident... ”

“ Why don't the new couple rent & when they have money they can purchase with a mortagage. This is what many of us did when we got married. We borrowed money for a down payment & took out a mortagage for the rest. To ask a parent to put down even $25000 besides other wedding expenses is asking a lot since B'H there are other kids to marry off. This whole business of buying an apartment has to stop otherwise there will be a real shidduch crisis. Parents who have no money are in hock & especially with the economy of today it is very hard for parents to even meet the costs of a simple wedding. ”

“ I would have felt terribly guilty bankrupting my parents like that. Do these young people getting married understand what the burden is to their parents? If they don't understand the finances of a wedding and how to reduce them, then maybe they aren't ready to marry and start families. ”

“ What is wrong with a baseball hat for 3 dollars at a cheap store? ”

“ Yeah #35. Gerrer chasidim have had a gmach that lends millions to both sides, including Americans. And the Gerrer wedding plans save even more. Wow a $1400 limit on a shtreimel. I bought my son a top model spodek for $1000. And his taleisim, 2 of them, cost $50 each. Aww they aren't turkish so they're "only" pure wool and no shatnez. Oh well he'll have to live with that. Thank you so much Belz and Litvaks for finally, after 30 years, for concuring with the Gerrer Rebbe and placing limits. ”

“ He is following in the footsteps of his brother-in-law the satmar rebbe of KJ who announed it over a year ago in a drusha on nitel nacht. ”

“ I would have felt terribly guilty bankrupting my parents like that. Do these young people getting married understand what the burden is to their parents? If they don't understand the finances of a wedding and how to reduce them, then maybe they aren't ready to marry and start families. ”

“ Sure the first, it was pointed out to me that the Gerrer have these takonos since the 80's. ”

“ Average 35,000 per kid on apartment plus other expenses, not counting "suppoert", means about 50,000 per child for 10 or more children means $500,000 on wedding expenses are the mnimum expected.
This is a takana? It's a gzeira ra! ”

“ $1400.00 for a hat......Insane. You call this a takana.......The chassidi are nuts!!!!! ”

“ "The plan suggests a roof of no more than $45,000 from the girl's side and $25,000 from the boy's side to make a down installment on an apartment." ------ and this commitment is before you pay for the wedding expenses, clothing, gifts? Where is a family suppose to come up with $45 grand or $25 grand--besides the other wedding expenses? ”

“ $1400.00 for a hat......Insane. You call this a takana.......The chassidi are nuts!!!!! ”

“ We have to look at it one way or another WE Americans or all the other parts of the world called chutz laeretz have to support the bnei eretz yisroel so what's a differewnce if they buy a apartment or not the bottom line hashem wants them to come here to collect money and we have the zchus of giving it and so we show that we care about our holy land so let's not ask questions on why they do things even we don't because even they'll stop hashem will make a different reason they should have to come here to fundraise ”

“ My parents didn't go bankrupt from my wedding but my point was they spent all that money in order to make me happy. And now I have nothing from that money. My furniture was close to 20k, I still have it, but its all scratched up.

I would rather trade all that for a house.

The problem is not my parents, they were responding to what the mechutan expected from him. So both parents shelled out all that scratch not to make us happy. Only to follow the custom.
”

“ "The plan suggests a roof of no more than $45,000 from the girl's side and $25,000 from the boy's side to make a down installment on an apartment." ------ and this commitment is before you pay for the wedding expenses, clothing, gifts? Where is a family suppose to come up with $45 grand or $25 grand--besides the other wedding expenses? ”

“ Average 35,000 per kid on apartment plus other expenses, not counting "suppoert", means about 50,000 per child for 10 or more children means $500,000 on wedding expenses are the mnimum expected.
This is a takana? It's a gzeira ra! ”

“ Goiyeshe cup...even if the heilege rebbe did accidently give all his chasidim tallesim with shatnes, what does that have to do with reducing the costs of making a chassanah...the catering halls don't have a special price if the chassan can show that the tallis he wears under the chuppah is "shatnes free" ”

“ Let’s step back and examine this issue a bit.

The fact that parents marry off their children is legendary. That’s expected. But the exorbitant way in which this is done is frightening. The talmid chochom issue has been taken to extremes that are staggering and not the true intent of Chazal. The merit is in being a talmid chochom and (for the girl) marrying one. The issue is not, nor ever was, the engaging in full time learning – kollel. The kollel matter has become a style, unrelated to one’s potential, the feasibility of it, or the future plans for the couple. The husband must pass time in the kollel regardless. It makes sense that a yungerman wishes to begin his married life with a few years of good learning, but the question is whether this is reality.

I reflect back to my kollel days. Numerous simchas, weddings of friends, relatives, establishing connections with new neighbors, eventually new baby with long nights and little sleep, etc. The potential for true, good learning was severely constrained.

Now, to do the above at someone else’s expense? Is it fair for my shver to fund my missing kollel because I was up late at chasunas or helping take care of a new baby? These may be nice things to do, but the uncompromised learning that is supposed to be the mehus of kollel, it ain’t.

It would be just as smart for the community to undertake a project to guide bnei kollel, those who are the “learners” that need to remain within the koslei beis hamedrash for the long term, those who are there for a brief time (specified number of years) before leaving to become a frum, Torahdige baal habos, and those who should pursue their career while maintaining shiurim on a regular basis. This would also maintain parnosos in the community, allowing for our various community causes to be funded from within, without compromising on Torah learning.

Meanwhile, we have allowed the creation of a monstrosity of “kollel” lifestyle that bankrupts everyone involved, fosters dependence, disallows for the pursuit of careers (Torah she’ain imo melocho), and leaves the community with huge percentages of poverty.

Just observe every beis hamedrash every morning at shacharis. The floods of yungerleit who need to marry off their children are staggering. This is only partly because of the costs (which the takanos are designed to help). It is also because the trend has been to shy away from becoming baalei batim and earning money (gadol hanehene mi’yegiya kapo) while hiding out behind the shtender and gemora. It is unacceptable that every mechutan from Eretz Yisroel must spend time in America schnorring for months to make his children’s weddings. This also raises the question whether such tzedokos are truly “hachnosas kallah”.

The takanos are a great idea. But I think the other issue I described above is just as important. Anyone listening?
”

“ there should be weddings unless the chosson has a job or is learning a trade. why should the mechutan need a job. suppose there is no mechutan ,then what? ”

“ This is a quote from someone above:
Meanwhile, we have allowed the creation of a monstrosity of “kollel” lifestyle that bankrupts everyone involved, fosters dependence, disallows for the pursuit of careers (Torah she’ain imo melocho), and leaves the community with huge percentages of poverty.


According to the Rambam (who invented the idea of a learning Baal Habbos) he makes a cheshbon to how a person should spend his day. i.e. 8 hours sleep and daven and eat etc, that should take 12 hours. the rest of the day should be devided as follows FOR A BAAL HABBOS-3 hours of work and NINE HOURS LEARN. im not telling you that you should do this, its none of my business but dont bring in the rambam of torah im melacha.

Thanks ”

“ I asked my father why hes struggling he said because he needs to marry off my sister and is putting away money for the next 7 years because this is the excepted minimum in lakewood by all these shtarke buchrim.

he said the excepted inimum is 1000.00 a month.

if u do the math its 84,000 dollars which he just spent on their basement apt and supported a stranger with.

I asked him why he wont scratch together enough money to pay a minimal down payment and then let the couple pay a little towards the mortgage?
he said he doesnt have the money on hand - then you go to a lending gemach and pay THEM the monthly payments instead of a landlord.

the couple will have a house in 10 yrs and have equity. thats real value.

isrealis have this right! give the kids something that they wll have to actually build a family with and not be at a landlords mercy of raising rent every time the contract is renewed.

i am in no way agreeing that the girls side should pay more! the parents should share the burden equally. why are we punishing parents for having daughters?!

in addition, they are making such a big deal about CZs and no real diamonds in the rings, the streimlich sound just as expensive - PETA elert!!!!! lol
they make beautiful fake ones as well,
lets treat both the chosson and the kallah equally and as adults. life will be full of compromises - lets begin... ”

“ Can someone explain me why the hell every couple needs to buy an apartment in Israel. Now, I hope my fellow blogers will not try selling me the old bull$%^& that there is no rentals in Israel because it's false 1. there is rentals available 2. even if there is a shortage it's because everybody buys so investors don't see it as a good rental market which would be changed overnight if people will stop buying. Imagine if the belzer rabbi would forbid to buy an apartment Jerusalem would get flooded with investors to buy the apartments and rent it to those couples. If it would be a rich community I wouldn't say anything but to regularly collect from all around the world to buy apartments for those spoiled rotten brads that's unheard of and it must STOP ”

“ $1400.00 for a hat......Insane. You call this a takana.......The chassidi are nuts!!!!! ”