Jerusalem – Mirrer Rosh Yeshiva: If You See Haredi Using Internet Not For ‘Parnossa’, You Must Rebuke Him

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    Rabbi Natan Tzvi Finkel, the Rosh Yeshiva of the world-famous Mir Yeshiva in Jerusalem, meets with Israeli billionaire Arcadi Gaydamak. (file photo)Jerusalem – At a siyum celebrating the conclusion of meseches Kesuvos which was learned in the yeshiva during the winter zman, Mirrer rosh yeshiva Rav Nosson Tzvi Finkel gave a lengthy sicha during which he swiped at those who are connected to the Internet without needing it for their parnossa.

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    “I am directing my call to you, the bnei Torah,” he said. “You don’t need these services, and you’re not connected to it. But recently there have been breaches which require our attention and action.”

    Rav Finkel said that past battles were directed against radios and cellphones, but today’s battle is far worse, with the culprit bringing many homes to ruin, and destroying families both spiritually and physically.

    “I’m referring to the Internet,” he said. “Every person has the obligation to protest. When you notice or become aware of someone who has this service in his home and doesn’t need it for parnossa, you are obligated to fulfill the mitzvah of tochacha and rebuke him.”


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    99 Comments
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    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    When are we going to take a stand against this authoritarian nonsense? If our faith can’t deal with modernity, then we have a very serious problem. Sticking our head in the sand and hoping it will go away isn’t going to work. The more diatribes like this from a well-meaning but deeply out of touch Gadol, the more kids will be off the Derech

    lol
    lol
    14 years ago

    please tell me the man is connected to planet earth…. im sure he is a great talmud chochom and i mean no disrespect but pleeeeeeeze

    cleaning lady
    cleaning lady
    14 years ago

    is there enough room under the bed for this?

    Mordechai
    Mordechai
    14 years ago

    In 1960, the Lubavitcher Rebbe spoke publicly about the opportunity radio affords us for disseminating Torah and educating our fellow Jews. It’s all a matter of our intention.

    Rabbi Finkel, thanks for your input but I’m following the Rebbe, thank you.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    There are so many torah resources on the internet. How can a group arbitrarily want to have the internet banned? It is like saying that knives and candles should be banned since they can be used for good or for evil. Should cameras and telephones also be banned? How about pens, hammers and other tools that can be used for good or for evil?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    There are so many rules one must follow to rebuke someone, I do not think most people meet the requirement to rebuke another yid.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    so if I see someone with a cell phone and I suspect that he is not using it for tachlis . should I rebuke him too?

    Don't shoot the Messenger
    Don't shoot the Messenger
    14 years ago

    Yet again the haredie ‘rabbis’ just don’t get it and are out of touch. Instead of ‘rebuking’ others (and we know that most won’t do this properly anyway), the rabbis should channel their energies in teaching and training their students how to behave properly. If they would be real jews or even decent folk, they would remember that just about everything can be used for bad & for good. It is up to the responsible individual to harness the good potential in things.

    Yet again jews are being timid and not actually facing the problems and issue. Just ‘sweep it under the rug’.. ignore it and it will go away’.. This mentality has ruined a generation of ‘at risk teens’. How many millions more need to be destroyed by this selfish hands – off attitude?

    Why is it always the ‘holier than thou’ attitude, with the ‘us against them’ mentality? Why do these rabbis run after Lipa instead of actually speaking out against the real issues?

    Gefilte Fish
    Gefilte Fish
    14 years ago

    Someone should let the Rabbanim know that they are fighting a lost battle, give it a few years and you won’t be able to function without it.

    Even now, people who don’t have internet pay more for electronics, vacations, hotels, plain tickets, books etc. etc.

    If you can’t fight it join it!

    learns torah daily online
    learns torah daily online
    14 years ago

    so internet is ok for parnossa but not for TORAH???

    gevtalt
    gevtalt
    14 years ago

    does he know there are pictures of him on yeshivishe blogs?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    thats crazy. if he is so worried about ruining lives then how could he say that rebuke people that will ruin more lives.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I’m not saying they’re right.
    But if someone needs Internet at home, there’s no reason they shouldn’t have Kosher Internet.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    this is why there are so many people that go off the derech. there is nothing that a jewish boy could do to socialize.

    Madreiga Applies
    Madreiga Applies
    14 years ago

    Come on you guys. If a bachur is learning in Mir they had better be on the appropriate madreiga. Obviously, if a bachur’s head is not in the gemarah but on the internet playing around, it defeats the purpose of learning in Yerushalayim. It is not shayich to that derech. That’s all the R’Y is saying and it is appropriate. My chevrei learning in Kollel in Mir Yerushalayim do not have computers at all. I have to call them on the phone to say hello. I actually like that more than an occassional email. I buy the Kirby Card and support OORAH so it is a mitzvah every time I call. You should do the same !!!!

    off the derech
    off the derech
    14 years ago

    while i have the internet in my home, and will continue to, I must acknowledge that Rabbi Finkel is an extraordinary loving and considerate person. if he said what was quoted as saying it was surely out of love.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    The internet is no longer just some tool that people have but can do without; it’s become a part of everyday life and sorry, but I’m not giving it up. Flights, news, banking, business, communication, shopping, travel, the list is practically endless. There are good and bad ways to use anything, doesn’t mean we should just ban them. What a ridiculous way to imagine a solution. Get used to it, the internet is not going anywhere- I just don’t see how anyone can even think of banning something like the internet. It will become even more mainstream and integrated into society and mandatory as time goes on, not less. And I use it to find to shiurim and daf yomi etc when I would otherwise be unable to. The whole destroys lives argument is so tired. The internet doesn’t destroy lives, it’s a channel. The individual using it is the driving force. Does it make it easier to do bad things? Sure, but the same can be said for good.

    me
    me
    14 years ago

    So all those yeshiva bachurim with internet just for VOIP should be rebuked because it is not for parnassah?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    This is the most rediculous statement ever posted on the internet. What century is this man living in. By making such a statement he loses all credibility for himself and all other heiliga rebbes.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    There are limits on the internet, banning the internet in every Jewish home will not solve the problem. There are rules to abide by if you want the internet a means of Judaism, and not a means of evil.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    its in to curse the internet these days its like the anti smokers and global warming

    Matzah Meal
    Matzah Meal
    14 years ago

    I believe Rav Finkel is talking about Yeshiva bochurim in dorms. I don’t think he is against internet in Jewish homes.

    Gefilte Fish
    Gefilte Fish
    14 years ago

    It’s a matter of choice.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    The rabbi is right, the Internet is a problem. Admit it. And not davka because of halacha, but mainly because of porn. Yes we the people, love porn, and when presented with an easy way to watch we will. Now comes the argument, if it worth the porn watching for all the good that can be had. In that I agree that thr rabbi is right. Although I’m on the internet and typing this, it does not mean that I’m a hypocryte, because I’m typing here ltzorech parnosoh.

    When will we ever admit that we have flaws and need to watch them? The rabbi is right, he knows that he himself, when given the opportunity with a computer and intenet would not be able to withstand. And he’s just passing his opinion. Nothing wromg with that.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Look in todays NYtims, that a computer with Internet connection will soon be at $50, okay now go fight.

    Perspective
    Perspective
    14 years ago

    Yet again all of you jew haters are pouncing on a very special man who if you would see in person you will be in awe at how special he is and would not dream of ever talking to him like this. You are all cowards- writing anonymous messages does not mean you can write things that you would not say to his face. This man represents the largest and most successful yeshiva in E’Y and perhaps in the world- give him the respect he deserves.

    As usual a private message from around the globe delivered to a small demographic of people by Rav Nosson Tzvi has been circulated by VIN to a much broader audience who the Rosh Yeshiva was not addressing. He was speaking to members of his yeshiva and their respective families (and yes he can make what ever rules he likes as he is in charge) that they should be wholly focused on their learning and should not have any distractions. Is it so bad to have an unusually high standard for the people representing all of klal yisroel in learning yomom volayla. If Americans like yourselves would not preach that every Tom, Dick, and Harry belongs in Lakewood or in kollel perhaps you will find that these rules sheltering a true ben torah from the world will be accepted and probably even suggested by those who are learning. I do not think it is fair that just because VIN reports a story to the whole world that the message is global. I can assure you that this message was only intended for a small group and not for all of us. May the Rosh Yeshiva have a refuah sheleimah and a kosheren pesach.

    Shame on all of you who dare speak about one of the gedolei hador behind their backs on an open forum in such a demoting manner.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    The Internet is the source of information, so I have no idea how could you ban information and knowledge??!!

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    peole who go to college also need to use the internet in order to study for tests, write papers and do research. Its amazing how many frum yidden do not listen to the rabanim these days even in lakewood.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    We are fighting in the Arab countries they should receive information and knowledge, and we taking it away from our people. (we are talking about adults)

    zalmen
    zalmen
    14 years ago

    #2 ..dont look for excuses #1 leave it up to your imagination. ‘hochaiach tochiach ‘is a mtzvah deoireise not just for mechanchim and rabbonon.dont worry if you dont know protim, like you dont worry about other things if you do it risht just excuse

    berish
    berish
    14 years ago

    # 7 YOU! have a serious problem with YOUR faith. before i address it , i have to know which religion you belong to, reform etc or ehrliche shomrei torah yidden?

    boro park yid
    boro park yid
    14 years ago

    All these statements are very nice but l’maiseh the with all charomes, kol korehs etc, the internet is becoming more and more widespread in the frum community (come on even “Neturei Karta” has a website). It is used much more widely and openly and by much frummer people than TV ever was, this is probably because it has so many practical uses, I know my wife can sometimes find clothes, shoes etc sometimes for half the price you’d pay on 13th ave for the same types of things, not to mention how simple it is to book train, plane tickets etc. I think in Israel people are a bit more strict but I dont think its so much different.

    Boro Park yid
    Boro Park yid
    14 years ago

    With all respect to the rabbonim etc, I think there is definately a need in todays world for gedorim but I think the Chassidishe and frum litvish oylom have started a sort of Iranian trend to asser everything, if you look closely around Boro Park, Williamsburg, Monsey Monroe etc you will see that this is only working in a very chitzoinius surface way but under the surface things are not so poshet and I think we need more emphasis on penimius. A bit ago there was an article about a “frum” site for adulery. I couldnt resist looking at the site just to see which type of people were dreying there and if you look at all the profiles youll see that Satmar is probably the most highly represented there as they are on most of the off the derech blogs.

    Matzah Meal With Chrain
    Matzah Meal With Chrain
    14 years ago

    Rav Finkel is a huge Gadol, may we all daven on his behalf for a speedy refuah shelaima, and much bracha in his lifetime. We don’t need to find excuses to live life as comfortable as we want. We have responsibilities, we have great things we can do with out life that Hashem gave us, but one thing can’t be forgotten, we have gedolim who are in touch with these modern times, and who have have unexplainable amount of ahava for Klal Yisroel. Rav Finkel didn’t say you should throw your computers away, Rav Finkel is saying that the Bochurim in his Yeshiva don’t need computers while they are studying full time at the Mir Yeshiva.We should all be zoche to true ahava and yearah, and never jump to conclusions. Moshiach should come speedily in our days, AMEN.

    dovy
    dovy
    14 years ago

    Amazing how many cliche spitting losers are out there posting on this. Just because we are unfortunately adicted to blogs doesn’t mean we should defend them . we all, at least those of us who are minimally honest, realize what a bad influence the net is to us, and it should definitely not be used for Torah. If you are too dumb to crack a book maybe just stick to VIN and avoid wannabe Torah sites.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Change yourself and you can change the WORLD!!

    A Talmid
    A Talmid
    14 years ago

    # 29 well said

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    After reading 45 posts on VIN on this article, I am trying to find a respectful way of telling the heilege Rav to either seek to understand how important the internet has become to frumme yiddin who work a job, have children in school and overall have found the internet an integral part of their day. If he is so out of touch with reality and believe that more than a tiny percentage of yiddin use the internet for pornography or other negative uses, than he should simply fade away into a quiet retirement. You cannot call someone a “gadol” if he simply is frozen in time and won’t recognize the world as it is today rather than the way it was in a prior generation.

    May hashem give the rebbe the understanding to understand how the world is changing around him.

    mr613
    mr613
    14 years ago

    Maybe we should outlaw telephone use there are those 900 numbers that are available

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    I think that people have to realize that this is a huge Talmid Chochom. The Rosh Yeshiva Shlit”a is a phenominal masmid, great lamdan, and huge baal midos. He also is a tremendous baal yissurim, as he suffers terribly from Parkinson’s. I have seen firsthand what a Tzaddik he is, as have the tens of thousands of Talmidim who have learnt in the great Yeshiva that he is moser nefesh for. Before anyone posts their opinions – first understand who you are speaking against.

    Shaul in Monsey
    Shaul in Monsey
    14 years ago

    It seems to me that based on the qualifications the Rav made which are quoted above, this was not a swipe at the general community. It sounds like it was limited to the kollel yungeleit in Mir. So I’m not so sure that Rav is suggesting that the oilem abandon the internet.

    What I’d like to know is for those rabbonim that are urging no internet use, will they also refuse to accept any money that is raised for their mosdos via internet campaigns. And do they make sure that their financial people make sure they don’t do any online banking?

    Clearly the correct approach is to educate for proper use and not ban or outlaw, a tactic so taliban in its approach that its bound to not only fail, but further erode the value of the rabbonis to begin with.

    bitachon
    bitachon
    14 years ago

    Wow! Even if you disagree with the heilige Rosh yeshiva, a little derech eretz!
    Your azus and chutzpah outdoes his “out of touch” as you say. You better ask him mechilah (and not via email)
    On VIN we have articles about kids going off the derech and I am posotive as the sun is shining that whatever turned them off I don’t know, but that the shmutz on the internet kept them going that way until they reached the darkest and meanest part of gehenom.
    Don’t believe me? Ask any boy or girl who came back and that is the honest answer.
    The internet is like a nuclear reactor. Very important but dangerous as hell.

    PMO
    PMO
    14 years ago

    Perhaps Rav Finkel should have been more clear. I think this is a bit of an issue today. Because information moves SO fast, a statement meant for the bochurim in his yeshiva is seen by the whole world. It is clear that he meant this for his bochurim.

    That being said, the Internet has become and INCREDIBLE place for families to stay connected, to learn torah, to talk to friends, rebbaim and family across the globe (VOIP), etc. Its practical use in our everyday lives is undoubtedly clear.

    However, if we are REALLY being honest, it is also the modern equivalent of crack cocaine for the yezter horoh. Take this as an opportunity to evaluate how you REALLY use the Internet every day. While this chumra was not for you, there is maybe something to be learned from it. Use the opportunity to look at how you use the Internet and make some changes… we have all probably used the net to give in to the yeter horoh on some level.

    anonymos
    anonymos
    14 years ago

    whats wrong with everybody. How dare anyone speak like this against the holiest man of our genaration. I am certain if any of you would meet him you would immediately to teshuva.

    M Feldman
    M Feldman
    14 years ago

    First let me get this out there “I’m not a tzadik”
    Our community has many probloms but that dosnt take away from the fact that the internet IS a problom. Yes you can get great prices and so on, but don’t tell me that its a great source for torah. I havnt met any talmid chachom that got his knowledge on the web.
    Another point I would like to make is, although you claim that the web is mainly a source of “very important information” you wouldn’t let your kids get “educated” on it.
    And for those who say its a lost battle, I don’t disagree we that(?)But is that a reason to give up? Would you give up fighting cancer if you only had 10% chance of surviving?
    I’m using the web, I actually did get torah and history knowledg but I also got a lot of sh_t along with that. Please don’t make it sound like there’s nothing wrong with it! You know it better than anyone else
    I don’t know the R”Y but hear that he’s not well, so I want to wish him a refuah shelamah
    I think moshiach will need to take us out of this one

    yitzkhaqides
    yitzkhaqides
    14 years ago

    Why is the computer different from the printing press which was welcomed by the frum world 550 years ago? Technology is morally neutral and may be used for Kiddush Hashem and Chillul HaShem. See the Tiferes Yisroel on Avos – Chaviv Adom Shenivra Betzelem.

    Goodbye Chametz
    Goodbye Chametz
    14 years ago

    We are living in the times of Yimos Hamashiach. We have to work on our awareness of emes and stay away from sheker. May Rav Finkel, Shlita, have a speedy refuah shelaima, and may we not take what he said the wrong way.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    Stop knocking the Rav- once you reach his position that is when you can debate with him!! 😉

    Miss Williamsburg
    Miss Williamsburg
    14 years ago

    It is really sad that all it takes is some unverified piece of information on the internet to get some people to talk with such blatant disrespect about a gadol Hador.
    All without knowing the true contents of what he said or what he meant .

    I’m Chassidish and live in Williamsburg and have no clue who Rabbi Finkel is other than that he’s a Litvishe Gadol. Yet I would never dare to be disrespectful to someone of that status.

    And yes, I do use the internet for shopping and news. (Although it’s primarily for business.) But I don’t have to be disrespectful to disagree. Besides, I don’t think his psak was a blatant psak for everyone. If I read correctly I think he was specifically referring to Bnei Torah- To those learning in Yeshiva and Kollel.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    14 years ago

    The Rav is of course right, but he has not gone far enough. Also all books and magazines should be banned; most of those I see on store shelves are not fit for heimishe people.
    And while I am at it, I really liked the last sentence of #29 , it is a real oxymoron: “Shame on all of you who dare speak about one of the gedolei hador behind their backs on an open forum in such a demoting manner.”
    BEHIND HIS BACK and AN OPEN FORUM don’t go together.