Welcome, Guest! - or
Easy to remember!  »  VinNews.com

Jerusalem - Mirrer Rosh Yeshiva: If You See Haredi Using Internet Not For 'Parnossa', You Must Rebuke Him

Published on: April 2, 2009 04:06 PM
By: VIN News By Ezra Reichman| Bakehila
Change text size Text Size  
Bookmark and Share
Rabbi Natan Tzvi Finkel, the Rosh Yeshiva of the world-famous Mir Yeshiva in Jerusalem, meets with Israeli billionaire Arcadi Gaydamak. (file photo)Rabbi Natan Tzvi Finkel, the Rosh Yeshiva of the world-famous Mir Yeshiva in Jerusalem, meets with Israeli billionaire Arcadi Gaydamak. (file photo)

Jerusalem - At a siyum celebrating the conclusion of meseches Kesuvos which was learned in the yeshiva during the winter zman, Mirrer rosh yeshiva Rav Nosson Tzvi Finkel gave a lengthy sicha during which he swiped at those who are connected to the Internet without needing it for their parnossa.

“I am directing my call to you, the bnei Torah,” he said. “You don’t need these services, and you’re not connected to it. But recently there have been breaches which require our attention and action.”

Advertisement:

Rav Finkel said that past battles were directed against radios and cellphones, but today’s battle is far worse, with the culprit bringing many homes to ruin, and destroying families both spiritually and physically.

“I’m referring to the Internet,” he said. “Every person has the obligation to protest. When you notice or become aware of someone who has this service in his home and doesn’t need it for parnossa, you are obligated to fulfill the mitzvah of tochacha and rebuke him.”


More of today's headlines

Manhattan, NY - Leaders of the Group of 20 leading economies say they will meet again at the United Nations in New York in September to assess progress on pledges made... Russia - Police say vandals have sprayed paint and drawn a swastika across a large painting of Vladimir Lenin on a mountainside in southern Russia. The stone image of...

 

Total99

Read Comments (99)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Apr 02, 2009 at 03:34 PM Anonymous Says:

so if I see someone with a cell phone and I suspect that he is not using it for tachlis . should I rebuke him too?

2

 Apr 02, 2009 at 03:32 PM Anonymous Says:

There are so many rules one must follow to rebuke someone, I do not think most people meet the requirement to rebuke another yid.

3

 Apr 02, 2009 at 03:25 PM Anonymous Says:

There are so many torah resources on the internet. How can a group arbitrarily want to have the internet banned? It is like saying that knives and candles should be banned since they can be used for good or for evil. Should cameras and telephones also be banned? How about pens, hammers and other tools that can be used for good or for evil?

4

 Apr 02, 2009 at 03:23 PM Mordechai Says:

In 1960, the Lubavitcher Rebbe spoke publicly about the opportunity radio affords us for disseminating Torah and educating our fellow Jews. It's all a matter of our intention.

Rabbi Finkel, thanks for your input but I'm following the Rebbe, thank you.

5

 Apr 02, 2009 at 03:18 PM cleaning lady Says:

is there enough room under the bed for this?

6

 Apr 02, 2009 at 03:17 PM lol Says:

please tell me the man is connected to planet earth.... im sure he is a great talmud chochom and i mean no disrespect but pleeeeeeeze

7

 Apr 02, 2009 at 03:17 PM Anonymous Says:

When are we going to take a stand against this authoritarian nonsense? If our faith can't deal with modernity, then we have a very serious problem. Sticking our head in the sand and hoping it will go away isn't going to work. The more diatribes like this from a well-meaning but deeply out of touch Gadol, the more kids will be off the Derech

8

 Apr 02, 2009 at 03:43 PM Don't shoot the Messenger Says:

Yet again the haredie 'rabbis' just don't get it and are out of touch. Instead of 'rebuking' others (and we know that most won't do this properly anyway), the rabbis should channel their energies in teaching and training their students how to behave properly. If they would be real jews or even decent folk, they would remember that just about everything can be used for bad & for good. It is up to the responsible individual to harness the good potential in things.

Yet again jews are being timid and not actually facing the problems and issue. Just 'sweep it under the rug'.. ignore it and it will go away'.. This mentality has ruined a generation of 'at risk teens'. How many millions more need to be destroyed by this selfish hands - off attitude?

Why is it always the 'holier than thou' attitude, with the 'us against them' mentality? Why do these rabbis run after Lipa instead of actually speaking out against the real issues?

9

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:18 PM me Says:

So all those yeshiva bachurim with internet just for VOIP should be rebuked because it is not for parnassah?

10

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #6  
lol Says:

please tell me the man is connected to planet earth.... im sure he is a great talmud chochom and i mean no disrespect but pleeeeeeeze

The Rosh Yeshiva is talking to Bnei Torah

11

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:21 PM Anonymous Says:

There are limits on the internet, banning the internet in every Jewish home will not solve the problem. There are rules to abide by if you want the internet a means of Judaism, and not a means of evil.

12

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:19 PM Anonymous Says:

This is the most rediculous statement ever posted on the internet. What century is this man living in. By making such a statement he loses all credibility for himself and all other heiliga rebbes.

13

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:07 PM Anonymous Says:

The internet is no longer just some tool that people have but can do without; it's become a part of everyday life and sorry, but I'm not giving it up. Flights, news, banking, business, communication, shopping, travel, the list is practically endless. There are good and bad ways to use anything, doesn't mean we should just ban them. What a ridiculous way to imagine a solution. Get used to it, the internet is not going anywhere- I just don't see how anyone can even think of banning something like the internet. It will become even more mainstream and integrated into society and mandatory as time goes on, not less. And I use it to find to shiurim and daf yomi etc when I would otherwise be unable to. The whole destroys lives argument is so tired. The internet doesn't destroy lives, it's a channel. The individual using it is the driving force. Does it make it easier to do bad things? Sure, but the same can be said for good.

14

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:03 PM off the derech Says:

while i have the internet in my home, and will continue to, I must acknowledge that Rabbi Finkel is an extraordinary loving and considerate person. if he said what was quoted as saying it was surely out of love.

15

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:01 PM Madreiga Applies Says:

Come on you guys. If a bachur is learning in Mir they had better be on the appropriate madreiga. Obviously, if a bachur's head is not in the gemarah but on the internet playing around, it defeats the purpose of learning in Yerushalayim. It is not shayich to that derech. That's all the R'Y is saying and it is appropriate. My chevrei learning in Kollel in Mir Yerushalayim do not have computers at all. I have to call them on the phone to say hello. I actually like that more than an occassional email. I buy the Kirby Card and support OORAH so it is a mitzvah every time I call. You should do the same !!!!

16

 Apr 02, 2009 at 03:59 PM Anonymous Says:

this is why there are so many people that go off the derech. there is nothing that a jewish boy could do to socialize.

17

 Apr 02, 2009 at 03:59 PM Anonymous Says:

I'm not saying they're right.
But if someone needs Internet at home, there's no reason they shouldn't have Kosher Internet.

18

 Apr 02, 2009 at 03:57 PM Anonymous Says:

thats crazy. if he is so worried about ruining lives then how could he say that rebuke people that will ruin more lives.

19

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:29 PM Anonymous Says:

its in to curse the internet these days its like the anti smokers and global warming

20

 Apr 02, 2009 at 03:54 PM gevtalt Says:

does he know there are pictures of him on yeshivishe blogs?

21

 Apr 02, 2009 at 03:54 PM learns torah daily online Says:

so internet is ok for parnossa but not for TORAH???

22

 Apr 02, 2009 at 03:50 PM Gefilte Fish Says:

Someone should let the Rabbanim know that they are fighting a lost battle, give it a few years and you won't be able to function without it.

Even now, people who don't have internet pay more for electronics, vacations, hotels, plain tickets, books etc. etc.

If you can't fight it join it!

23

 Apr 02, 2009 at 05:15 PM berish Says:

# 7 YOU! have a serious problem with YOUR faith. before i address it , i have to know which religion you belong to, reform etc or ehrliche shomrei torah yidden?

24

 Apr 02, 2009 at 05:11 PM zalmen Says:

#2..dont look for excuses #1 leave it up to your imagination. 'hochaiach tochiach 'is a mtzvah deoireise not just for mechanchim and rabbonon.dont worry if you dont know protim, like you dont worry about other things if you do it risht just excuse

25

 Apr 02, 2009 at 05:04 PM Charles Hall Says:

Reply to #21  
learns torah daily online Says:

so internet is ok for parnossa but not for TORAH???

I'd write a longer comment, but I have a lot of shiurim to download.

26

 Apr 02, 2009 at 05:03 PM Anonymous Says:

We are fighting in the Arab countries they should receive information and knowledge, and we taking it away from our people. (we are talking about adults)

27

 Apr 02, 2009 at 05:02 PM Anonymous Says:

peole who go to college also need to use the internet in order to study for tests, write papers and do research. Its amazing how many frum yidden do not listen to the rabanim these days even in lakewood.

28

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:57 PM Anonymous Says:

The Internet is the source of information, so I have no idea how could you ban information and knowledge??!!

29

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:53 PM Perspective Says:

Yet again all of you jew haters are pouncing on a very special man who if you would see in person you will be in awe at how special he is and would not dream of ever talking to him like this. You are all cowards- writing anonymous messages does not mean you can write things that you would not say to his face. This man represents the largest and most successful yeshiva in E'Y and perhaps in the world- give him the respect he deserves.

As usual a private message from around the globe delivered to a small demographic of people by Rav Nosson Tzvi has been circulated by VIN to a much broader audience who the Rosh Yeshiva was not addressing. He was speaking to members of his yeshiva and their respective families (and yes he can make what ever rules he likes as he is in charge) that they should be wholly focused on their learning and should not have any distractions. Is it so bad to have an unusually high standard for the people representing all of klal yisroel in learning yomom volayla. If Americans like yourselves would not preach that every Tom, Dick, and Harry belongs in Lakewood or in kollel perhaps you will find that these rules sheltering a true ben torah from the world will be accepted and probably even suggested by those who are learning. I do not think it is fair that just because VIN reports a story to the whole world that the message is global. I can assure you that this message was only intended for a small group and not for all of us. May the Rosh Yeshiva have a refuah sheleimah and a kosheren pesach.

Shame on all of you who dare speak about one of the gedolei hador behind their backs on an open forum in such a demoting manner.

30

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Look in todays NYtims, that a computer with Internet connection will soon be at $50, okay now go fight.

31

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:50 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Mordechai Says:

In 1960, the Lubavitcher Rebbe spoke publicly about the opportunity radio affords us for disseminating Torah and educating our fellow Jews. It's all a matter of our intention.

Rabbi Finkel, thanks for your input but I'm following the Rebbe, thank you.

right on

32

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
Anonymous Says:

When are we going to take a stand against this authoritarian nonsense? If our faith can't deal with modernity, then we have a very serious problem. Sticking our head in the sand and hoping it will go away isn't going to work. The more diatribes like this from a well-meaning but deeply out of touch Gadol, the more kids will be off the Derech

I forever wonder, is out religion a contradiction with knowledge, every person needs to know what's happening in the world, if not you are less than the general public.

33

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:43 PM Anonymous Says:

The rabbi is right, the Internet is a problem. Admit it. And not davka because of halacha, but mainly because of porn. Yes we the people, love porn, and when presented with an easy way to watch we will. Now comes the argument, if it worth the porn watching for all the good that can be had. In that I agree that thr rabbi is right. Although I'm on the internet and typing this, it does not mean that I'm a hypocryte, because I'm typing here ltzorech parnosoh.


When will we ever admit that we have flaws and need to watch them? The rabbi is right, he knows that he himself, when given the opportunity with a computer and intenet would not be able to withstand. And he's just passing his opinion. Nothing wromg with that.

34

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:40 PM Funny Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

this is why there are so many people that go off the derech. there is nothing that a jewish boy could do to socialize.

WHAT where do you live??? We socialize at least 3 Times a day in Shul!!!

35

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:35 PM Gefilte Fish Says:

It's a matter of choice.

36

 Apr 02, 2009 at 04:35 PM Matzah Meal Says:

I believe Rav Finkel is talking about Yeshiva bochurim in dorms. I don't think he is against internet in Jewish homes.

37

 Apr 02, 2009 at 05:29 PM boro park yid Says:

All these statements are very nice but l'maiseh the with all charomes, kol korehs etc, the internet is becoming more and more widespread in the frum community (come on even "Neturei Karta" has a website). It is used much more widely and openly and by much frummer people than TV ever was, this is probably because it has so many practical uses, I know my wife can sometimes find clothes, shoes etc sometimes for half the price you'd pay on 13th ave for the same types of things, not to mention how simple it is to book train, plane tickets etc. I think in Israel people are a bit more strict but I dont think its so much different.

38

 Apr 02, 2009 at 05:50 PM Matzah Meal With Chrain Says:

Rav Finkel is a huge Gadol, may we all daven on his behalf for a speedy refuah shelaima, and much bracha in his lifetime. We don't need to find excuses to live life as comfortable as we want. We have responsibilities, we have great things we can do with out life that Hashem gave us, but one thing can't be forgotten, we have gedolim who are in touch with these modern times, and who have have unexplainable amount of ahava for Klal Yisroel. Rav Finkel didn't say you should throw your computers away, Rav Finkel is saying that the Bochurim in his Yeshiva don't need computers while they are studying full time at the Mir Yeshiva.We should all be zoche to true ahava and yearah, and never jump to conclusions. Moshiach should come speedily in our days, AMEN.

39

 Apr 02, 2009 at 05:46 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Mordechai Says:

In 1960, the Lubavitcher Rebbe spoke publicly about the opportunity radio affords us for disseminating Torah and educating our fellow Jews. It's all a matter of our intention.

Rabbi Finkel, thanks for your input but I'm following the Rebbe, thank you.

While the Lubavitcher spoke about using radio and even television for good that was in no way meant as a heter for his chassidim (or any jew for that matter) to use the internet.
Alhough I am a nobody I agree with Rabbi Finkels sentiments entirely, I also agree with the posters here that the problem is to big to sweep under the rug, what I suggest is that gedolim put there efforts into building a "safe" internet server that would be kosher for all to use in their homes.

40

 Apr 02, 2009 at 05:41 PM Boro Park yid Says:

With all respect to the rabbonim etc, I think there is definately a need in todays world for gedorim but I think the Chassidishe and frum litvish oylom have started a sort of Iranian trend to asser everything, if you look closely around Boro Park, Williamsburg, Monsey Monroe etc you will see that this is only working in a very chitzoinius surface way but under the surface things are not so poshet and I think we need more emphasis on penimius. A bit ago there was an article about a "frum" site for adulery. I couldnt resist looking at the site just to see which type of people were dreying there and if you look at all the profiles youll see that Satmar is probably the most highly represented there as they are on most of the off the derech blogs.

41

 Apr 02, 2009 at 05:31 PM amazed Says:

Reply to #4  
Mordechai Says:

In 1960, the Lubavitcher Rebbe spoke publicly about the opportunity radio affords us for disseminating Torah and educating our fellow Jews. It's all a matter of our intention.

Rabbi Finkel, thanks for your input but I'm following the Rebbe, thank you.

Do you think the Rebbe would not have a problem with the Internet?

Stop kidding yourself!!!

42

 Apr 02, 2009 at 05:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Matzah Meal Says:

I believe Rav Finkel is talking about Yeshiva bochurim in dorms. I don't think he is against internet in Jewish homes.

who cares what you think read it

43

 Apr 02, 2009 at 05:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Change yourself and you can change the WORLD!!

44

 Apr 02, 2009 at 05:53 PM dovy Says:

Amazing how many cliche spitting losers are out there posting on this. Just because we are unfortunately adicted to blogs doesn't mean we should defend them . we all, at least those of us who are minimally honest, realize what a bad influence the net is to us, and it should definitely not be used for Torah. If you are too dumb to crack a book maybe just stick to VIN and avoid wannabe Torah sites.

45

 Apr 02, 2009 at 05:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #29  
Perspective Says:

Yet again all of you jew haters are pouncing on a very special man who if you would see in person you will be in awe at how special he is and would not dream of ever talking to him like this. You are all cowards- writing anonymous messages does not mean you can write things that you would not say to his face. This man represents the largest and most successful yeshiva in E'Y and perhaps in the world- give him the respect he deserves.

As usual a private message from around the globe delivered to a small demographic of people by Rav Nosson Tzvi has been circulated by VIN to a much broader audience who the Rosh Yeshiva was not addressing. He was speaking to members of his yeshiva and their respective families (and yes he can make what ever rules he likes as he is in charge) that they should be wholly focused on their learning and should not have any distractions. Is it so bad to have an unusually high standard for the people representing all of klal yisroel in learning yomom volayla. If Americans like yourselves would not preach that every Tom, Dick, and Harry belongs in Lakewood or in kollel perhaps you will find that these rules sheltering a true ben torah from the world will be accepted and probably even suggested by those who are learning. I do not think it is fair that just because VIN reports a story to the whole world that the message is global. I can assure you that this message was only intended for a small group and not for all of us. May the Rosh Yeshiva have a refuah sheleimah and a kosheren pesach.

Shame on all of you who dare speak about one of the gedolei hador behind their backs on an open forum in such a demoting manner.

NO, it's not hate, people are afraid - and they have to - that you will take away their source of information, I will ask you something is our orthodox Jewish newspapers reliable and accurate???????

46

 Apr 02, 2009 at 06:12 PM cool masmid (BMG not MIR) Says:

Reply to #12  
Anonymous Says:

This is the most rediculous statement ever posted on the internet. What century is this man living in. By making such a statement he loses all credibility for himself and all other heiliga rebbes.

And by making the statement you just made you also lost all your credibility..... if you ever had any. Regarles of your position ( and I have also a hard time understanding the Rosh Yeshiva's position given the amount of Torah that one could avail himself from the internet), but that's not the way you speak about a person of that caliber........

47

 Apr 02, 2009 at 06:09 PM Anonymous Says:

After reading 45 posts on VIN on this article, I am trying to find a respectful way of telling the heilege Rav to either seek to understand how important the internet has become to frumme yiddin who work a job, have children in school and overall have found the internet an integral part of their day. If he is so out of touch with reality and believe that more than a tiny percentage of yiddin use the internet for pornography or other negative uses, than he should simply fade away into a quiet retirement. You cannot call someone a "gadol" if he simply is frozen in time and won't recognize the world as it is today rather than the way it was in a prior generation.

May hashem give the rebbe the understanding to understand how the world is changing around him.

48

 Apr 02, 2009 at 06:06 PM A Talmid Says:

# 29 well said

49

 Apr 02, 2009 at 06:16 PM mr613 Says:

Maybe we should outlaw telephone use there are those 900 numbers that are available

50

 Apr 02, 2009 at 07:02 PM PMO Says:

Perhaps Rav Finkel should have been more clear. I think this is a bit of an issue today. Because information moves SO fast, a statement meant for the bochurim in his yeshiva is seen by the whole world. It is clear that he meant this for his bochurim.

That being said, the Internet has become and INCREDIBLE place for families to stay connected, to learn torah, to talk to friends, rebbaim and family across the globe (VOIP), etc. Its practical use in our everyday lives is undoubtedly clear.

However, if we are REALLY being honest, it is also the modern equivalent of crack cocaine for the yezter horoh. Take this as an opportunity to evaluate how you REALLY use the Internet every day. While this chumra was not for you, there is maybe something to be learned from it. Use the opportunity to look at how you use the Internet and make some changes... we have all probably used the net to give in to the yeter horoh on some level.

51

 Apr 02, 2009 at 06:43 PM bitachon Says:

Wow! Even if you disagree with the heilige Rosh yeshiva, a little derech eretz!
Your azus and chutzpah outdoes his "out of touch" as you say. You better ask him mechilah (and not via email)
On VIN we have articles about kids going off the derech and I am posotive as the sun is shining that whatever turned them off I don't know, but that the shmutz on the internet kept them going that way until they reached the darkest and meanest part of gehenom.
Don't believe me? Ask any boy or girl who came back and that is the honest answer.
The internet is like a nuclear reactor. Very important but dangerous as hell.

52

 Apr 02, 2009 at 06:31 PM Anonymous Says:

I think that people have to realize that this is a huge Talmid Chochom. The Rosh Yeshiva Shlit"a is a phenominal masmid, great lamdan, and huge baal midos. He also is a tremendous baal yissurim, as he suffers terribly from Parkinson's. I have seen firsthand what a Tzaddik he is, as have the tens of thousands of Talmidim who have learnt in the great Yeshiva that he is moser nefesh for. Before anyone posts their opinions - first understand who you are speaking against.

53

 Apr 02, 2009 at 07:20 PM LET"S BE HONEST Says:

Reply to #4  
Mordechai Says:

In 1960, the Lubavitcher Rebbe spoke publicly about the opportunity radio affords us for disseminating Torah and educating our fellow Jews. It's all a matter of our intention.

Rabbi Finkel, thanks for your input but I'm following the Rebbe, thank you.

When the Rebbe spoke about using radio for Hafotzas Hamayanos who was refering to people who could not be reached in an other manner. Bnei Torah & other frum Jews have other resources and do not need to indulge in these tools. If you will be honest with yourself you will give some thought to the ratio of time spent surfing on the net on sites of devorim hoasurim or stam narishkeit versus the amount of time you spend using the net for Torah Umitzvos ??!! I think you are distorting the Rebbe's opinion!

54

 Apr 02, 2009 at 07:18 PM anonymos Says:

Reply to #8  
Don't shoot the Messenger Says:

Yet again the haredie 'rabbis' just don't get it and are out of touch. Instead of 'rebuking' others (and we know that most won't do this properly anyway), the rabbis should channel their energies in teaching and training their students how to behave properly. If they would be real jews or even decent folk, they would remember that just about everything can be used for bad & for good. It is up to the responsible individual to harness the good potential in things.

Yet again jews are being timid and not actually facing the problems and issue. Just 'sweep it under the rug'.. ignore it and it will go away'.. This mentality has ruined a generation of 'at risk teens'. How many millions more need to be destroyed by this selfish hands - off attitude?

Why is it always the 'holier than thou' attitude, with the 'us against them' mentality? Why do these rabbis run after Lipa instead of actually speaking out against the real issues?

what does lipa have to do with banning the internet. It seems to me that you just have a bone to pick with our holy gedolim.

55

 Apr 02, 2009 at 07:15 PM anonymos Says:

whats wrong with everybody. How dare anyone speak like this against the holiest man of our genaration. I am certain if any of you would meet him you would immediately to teshuva.



56

 Apr 02, 2009 at 06:38 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

It seems to me that based on the qualifications the Rav made which are quoted above, this was not a swipe at the general community. It sounds like it was limited to the kollel yungeleit in Mir. So I'm not so sure that Rav is suggesting that the oilem abandon the internet.

What I'd like to know is for those rabbonim that are urging no internet use, will they also refuse to accept any money that is raised for their mosdos via internet campaigns. And do they make sure that their financial people make sure they don't do any online banking?

Clearly the correct approach is to educate for proper use and not ban or outlaw, a tactic so taliban in its approach that its bound to not only fail, but further erode the value of the rabbonis to begin with.

57

 Apr 02, 2009 at 07:47 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #55  
anonymos Says:

whats wrong with everybody. How dare anyone speak like this against the holiest man of our genaration. I am certain if any of you would meet him you would immediately to teshuva.



"the holiest man of our genaration"
????

Have you not heard of Rav Moshe, Rav YB Solivechek, Rav. Aaron Cutler, Rav Meyer Gershinsky Z'tl. These gadolim are not "chopped herring".
"

58

 Apr 02, 2009 at 07:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #47  
Anonymous Says:

After reading 45 posts on VIN on this article, I am trying to find a respectful way of telling the heilege Rav to either seek to understand how important the internet has become to frumme yiddin who work a job, have children in school and overall have found the internet an integral part of their day. If he is so out of touch with reality and believe that more than a tiny percentage of yiddin use the internet for pornography or other negative uses, than he should simply fade away into a quiet retirement. You cannot call someone a "gadol" if he simply is frozen in time and won't recognize the world as it is today rather than the way it was in a prior generation.

May hashem give the rebbe the understanding to understand how the world is changing around him.

I doubt most of this generation of rabbonim will ever be able to relate to the 21st century. Somtimes I think that some of the gadolim from hundreds of years ago would be more relevant today and better able to adopt than Rav Finket and other so-called gadolim of the modern era.

59

 Apr 02, 2009 at 06:19 PM Mordechai Says:

Reply to #41  
amazed Says:

Do you think the Rebbe would not have a problem with the Internet?

Stop kidding yourself!!!

There's a famous story from Eretz Yisrael about a chasid who used to go every day to the old Tel Aviv bus station.

For anyone who was never there, it was a very creepy place, full of the most un-tzanua people, billboards, hucksters, etc. I'm a baal teshuva from my twenties and I was very uncomfortable there.

Anyways, this chasid used to go every morning to put tefillin on anyone who would do the mitzva. One day, he was rebuked on a bus by a frum Jew who complained about the environs, how they were immodest, inappropriate for a Torah Yid, etc.

When he finished, the chasid replied to him honestly, "I didn't notice."

The chasid was intent on bringing his fellow Yidden closer to Hashem through the mitzvah of tefillin and didn't see the externalities around him. And if he would have, he'd certainly put them out of mind and focus instead on his mission.

Chevrei, if you want to know the truth, this entire Olam Hazeh sickens me (and more and more each day). But my intention, please Hashem, is to help bring Moshiach. If the Internet can help me, I use it.

60

 Apr 02, 2009 at 07:54 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #55  
anonymos Says:

whats wrong with everybody. How dare anyone speak like this against the holiest man of our genaration. I am certain if any of you would meet him you would immediately to teshuva.



We all have respect to holly people, BUT, we have a lot of Angeles in haven, the way of information is INTERNET!!!!!!

61

 Apr 02, 2009 at 08:32 PM Moshe Says:

Reply to #12  
Anonymous Says:

This is the most rediculous statement ever posted on the internet. What century is this man living in. By making such a statement he loses all credibility for himself and all other heiliga rebbes.

I would think twice before I call him "THIS MAN".

62

 Apr 02, 2009 at 08:31 PM yitzkhaqides Says:

Why is the computer different from the printing press which was welcomed by the frum world 550 years ago? Technology is morally neutral and may be used for Kiddush Hashem and Chillul HaShem. See the Tiferes Yisroel on Avos - Chaviv Adom Shenivra Betzelem.

63

 Apr 02, 2009 at 08:24 PM abc Says:

Reply to #33  
Anonymous Says:

The rabbi is right, the Internet is a problem. Admit it. And not davka because of halacha, but mainly because of porn. Yes we the people, love porn, and when presented with an easy way to watch we will. Now comes the argument, if it worth the porn watching for all the good that can be had. In that I agree that thr rabbi is right. Although I'm on the internet and typing this, it does not mean that I'm a hypocryte, because I'm typing here ltzorech parnosoh.


When will we ever admit that we have flaws and need to watch them? The rabbi is right, he knows that he himself, when given the opportunity with a computer and intenet would not be able to withstand. And he's just passing his opinion. Nothing wromg with that.

don't say WE, just speak for yourself!

64

 Apr 02, 2009 at 08:16 PM M Feldman Says:

First let me get this out there "I'm not a tzadik"
Our community has many probloms but that dosnt take away from the fact that the internet IS a problom. Yes you can get great prices and so on, but don't tell me that its a great source for torah. I havnt met any talmid chachom that got his knowledge on the web.
Another point I would like to make is, although you claim that the web is mainly a source of "very important information" you wouldn't let your kids get "educated" on it.
And for those who say its a lost battle, I don't disagree we that(?)But is that a reason to give up? Would you give up fighting cancer if you only had 10% chance of surviving?
I'm using the web, I actually did get torah and history knowledg but I also got a lot of sh_t along with that. Please don't make it sound like there's nothing wrong with it! You know it better than anyone else
I don't know the R"Y but hear that he's not well, so I want to wish him a refuah shelamah
I think moshiach will need to take us out of this one

65

 Apr 02, 2009 at 08:00 PM Buncha Dummydumdums Says:

Reply to #28  
Anonymous Says:

The Internet is the source of information, so I have no idea how could you ban information and knowledge??!!

yah and if innapropriate websites r also ok b/c its on the internet and the internet is info and info is good right so terrosists r ok cuz they produce oil which runs cars which r also good ok im donating to hizbullah

66

 Apr 02, 2009 at 09:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
Anonymous Says:

"the holiest man of our genaration"
????

Have you not heard of Rav Moshe, Rav YB Solivechek, Rav. Aaron Cutler, Rav Meyer Gershinsky Z'tl. These gadolim are not "chopped herring".
"

buddy they are no longer with us
he is one of the greatest people of our generation

67

 Apr 02, 2009 at 09:35 PM Goodbye Chametz Says:

We are living in the times of Yimos Hamashiach. We have to work on our awareness of emes and stay away from sheker. May Rav Finkel, Shlita, have a speedy refuah shelaima, and may we not take what he said the wrong way.

68

 Apr 02, 2009 at 09:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #58  
Anonymous Says:

I doubt most of this generation of rabbonim will ever be able to relate to the 21st century. Somtimes I think that some of the gadolim from hundreds of years ago would be more relevant today and better able to adopt than Rav Finket and other so-called gadolim of the modern era.

you sound retarted! which yeshiva did you learn in?

69

 Apr 02, 2009 at 10:37 PM A Says:

Reply to #14  
off the derech Says:

while i have the internet in my home, and will continue to, I must acknowledge that Rabbi Finkel is an extraordinary loving and considerate person. if he said what was quoted as saying it was surely out of love.

You may be right but it was also said out of ignorance.

70

 Apr 02, 2009 at 10:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

There are so many torah resources on the internet. How can a group arbitrarily want to have the internet banned? It is like saying that knives and candles should be banned since they can be used for good or for evil. Should cameras and telephones also be banned? How about pens, hammers and other tools that can be used for good or for evil?

I must say that if you truly believe in what you wrote that candles in a Jewish home is equivalent harmful like the internet in a Jewish home, its one of the two, either you are such a Tzadik that you are so far from evil, or for whatever reason you are trying to fool yourself!

71

 Apr 02, 2009 at 11:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #20  
gevtalt Says:

does he know there are pictures of him on yeshivishe blogs?

How should he know?

72

 Apr 02, 2009 at 11:01 PM Anonymous Says:

Stop knocking the Rav- once you reach his position that is when you can debate with him!! ;)

73

 Apr 02, 2009 at 10:59 PM A Says:

Reply to #33  
Anonymous Says:

The rabbi is right, the Internet is a problem. Admit it. And not davka because of halacha, but mainly because of porn. Yes we the people, love porn, and when presented with an easy way to watch we will. Now comes the argument, if it worth the porn watching for all the good that can be had. In that I agree that thr rabbi is right. Although I'm on the internet and typing this, it does not mean that I'm a hypocryte, because I'm typing here ltzorech parnosoh.


When will we ever admit that we have flaws and need to watch them? The rabbi is right, he knows that he himself, when given the opportunity with a computer and intenet would not be able to withstand. And he's just passing his opinion. Nothing wromg with that.

I think there's something wrong with you if you think we all use the internet mostly for porn. I've been surfing for more than 15 years and I've never knowingly gone to a porn site. To me the bad parts of the internet are infinitesimal while it's good has both earned and saved me thousands of dollars, given me and my family much needed medical information, helped enormously with school research, etc. There's an old adage that asks if you would throw your baby out with the bathwater. I find that an apt description of people that would try to ban internet usage.

74

 Apr 02, 2009 at 10:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #12  
Anonymous Says:

This is the most rediculous statement ever posted on the internet. What century is this man living in. By making such a statement he loses all credibility for himself and all other heiliga rebbes.

Hope you realize that you are exactly the person the Chazal quote as an Apikores (Athiest), the chazal say that if someone says on a Talmud Chuchum that he has no credibility [Mie Ahani Lay Rabonon] is an Apikores, the least I would think that you should apologize over here at the same place where you messed up

75

 Apr 02, 2009 at 10:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #29  
Perspective Says:

Yet again all of you jew haters are pouncing on a very special man who if you would see in person you will be in awe at how special he is and would not dream of ever talking to him like this. You are all cowards- writing anonymous messages does not mean you can write things that you would not say to his face. This man represents the largest and most successful yeshiva in E'Y and perhaps in the world- give him the respect he deserves.

As usual a private message from around the globe delivered to a small demographic of people by Rav Nosson Tzvi has been circulated by VIN to a much broader audience who the Rosh Yeshiva was not addressing. He was speaking to members of his yeshiva and their respective families (and yes he can make what ever rules he likes as he is in charge) that they should be wholly focused on their learning and should not have any distractions. Is it so bad to have an unusually high standard for the people representing all of klal yisroel in learning yomom volayla. If Americans like yourselves would not preach that every Tom, Dick, and Harry belongs in Lakewood or in kollel perhaps you will find that these rules sheltering a true ben torah from the world will be accepted and probably even suggested by those who are learning. I do not think it is fair that just because VIN reports a story to the whole world that the message is global. I can assure you that this message was only intended for a small group and not for all of us. May the Rosh Yeshiva have a refuah sheleimah and a kosheren pesach.

Shame on all of you who dare speak about one of the gedolei hador behind their backs on an open forum in such a demoting manner.

I would gladly tell him to his face if I had the opportunity.

76

 Apr 03, 2009 at 06:46 AM Dr. Y. Levine Says:

Some years ago a rov in Flatbush told me that one cannot keep up with kashrus today without access to the Internet. As just one example, see the plethora of information about Pesach at http://www.kashrut.com/Passover/ .

It is indeed true that the Internet poses dangers. On the other hand, it contains a tremendous amount of valuable information as well as much divrei Torah. In a sense it is like a car. I can use a car to go to a shiur or I can use it to go to all sorts of terrible places.

People have to educated so that they avoid the pitfalls. Banning is not the solution.

77

 Apr 03, 2009 at 05:32 AM shlomo zalman Says:

The problem is not that the saintly Rav is against the internet for his followers. The problem is that he is encouraging holier than thou, arrogant and elitist behavior in his followers. His talmidim now have the license and even the obligation to go around rebuking those who are not "as frum" as they are. And they do it with relish. How good a feeling it is to be frummer than the next guy and let hin know it. Using the "hocheiach tochiach" excuse is a smokescreen, these guys just want to prop themselves up by puttting others down

78

 Apr 03, 2009 at 04:12 AM Anonymous Says:

Wow its bothersome to me to see and read some of the posts people put up. Do you have any idea as to what this Tzaddik is all about. I am sure that you think that he grew up sheltered and all and does not understand the modern world. However this is far from the truth, he grew up in Chicago and become the great Gadol that he is by working on himself. I am not ure black pants white short yeshivah guy nor am I a Chossid, and Ihave seen firsthand some of the anazing traits tha he has. I have heard many speeches and seen him many times and I NEVER heard him speak bad about another person. Every speech and every gesture that he does is with love and kindness to fellow human beings.
He is a man that refused to take medicine for his sickness because it may make him sleepy, for all those that are so easy to knock and speak badly of him I say follow him around for 1 day.... From his morning smile to his dragging himself to shul to his patient ear when someone needs help.Follow him to his modest house where he is forced to lay most of the day on his couch. Zero strenght to move ...yet is there for whomever needs him...seeing him deliver a shiur shaking and barely able to speak lying on his couch....Please a little respect from all you ignorant rabble rousers.
Its about time to stop seeking ways to knock people. If you haven't heard him speak to you direct refrain from posting your hatefull comments....

79

 Apr 03, 2009 at 02:28 AM Anonymous Says:

The Rav is of course right, but he has not gone far enough. Also all books and magazines should be banned; most of those I see on store shelves are not fit for heimishe people.
And while I am at it, I really liked the last sentence of #29, it is a real oxymoron: "Shame on all of you who dare speak about one of the gedolei hador behind their backs on an open forum in such a demoting manner.”
BEHIND HIS BACK and AN OPEN FORUM don't go together.

80

 Apr 03, 2009 at 01:28 AM Miss Williamsburg Says:

It is really sad that all it takes is some unverified piece of information on the internet to get some people to talk with such blatant disrespect about a gadol Hador.
All without knowing the true contents of what he said or what he meant .

I'm Chassidish and live in Williamsburg and have no clue who Rabbi Finkel is other than that he's a Litvishe Gadol. Yet I would never dare to be disrespectful to someone of that status.

And yes, I do use the internet for shopping and news. (Although it's primarily for business.) But I don't have to be disrespectful to disagree. Besides, I don't think his psak was a blatant psak for everyone. If I read correctly I think he was specifically referring to Bnei Torah- To those learning in Yeshiva and Kollel.

81

 Apr 03, 2009 at 06:55 AM Jimmy37 Says:

Does that mean every time I see a bochur plugged into an mp3 player I should assume he is listening to menuveldeke music instead of the latest downloaded shiur?

All these things mentioned, Internet, radio, & cellphone, are tools. When I went to yeshiva, the only thing I ever listened to on the banned radio was news, sports, and radio plays.

82

 Apr 02, 2009 at 11:40 PM Rippin Pinchas Says:

Reply to #73  
A Says:

I think there's something wrong with you if you think we all use the internet mostly for porn. I've been surfing for more than 15 years and I've never knowingly gone to a porn site. To me the bad parts of the internet are infinitesimal while it's good has both earned and saved me thousands of dollars, given me and my family much needed medical information, helped enormously with school research, etc. There's an old adage that asks if you would throw your baby out with the bathwater. I find that an apt description of people that would try to ban internet usage.

"I've never knowingly gone to a porn site"

However, it is mashmah that you inadvertently went to a porn site. That in itself is a problem.

83

 Apr 02, 2009 at 11:21 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #3  
Anonymous Says:

There are so many torah resources on the internet. How can a group arbitrarily want to have the internet banned? It is like saying that knives and candles should be banned since they can be used for good or for evil. Should cameras and telephones also be banned? How about pens, hammers and other tools that can be used for good or for evil?

your getting totally off the topic aply what the rosh hayeshiva to A REAL LIFE SCENARIO not your stupid out of line idease sheesh

84

 Apr 02, 2009 at 11:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #63  
abc Says:

don't say WE, just speak for yourself!

I doubt that the heilege rebbe or any of his talmidim ever watched porn on the internet so thats not why he issued this issur.

85

 Apr 03, 2009 at 07:06 AM Jay Orchard Says:

Doesn't anyone see the irony here? If I had not been casually surfing the Internet, instead of a business purpose, I never would have found out that I'm supposed to be rebuking people for doing exactly that?

86

 Apr 03, 2009 at 07:16 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #78  
Anonymous Says:

Wow its bothersome to me to see and read some of the posts people put up. Do you have any idea as to what this Tzaddik is all about. I am sure that you think that he grew up sheltered and all and does not understand the modern world. However this is far from the truth, he grew up in Chicago and become the great Gadol that he is by working on himself. I am not ure black pants white short yeshivah guy nor am I a Chossid, and Ihave seen firsthand some of the anazing traits tha he has. I have heard many speeches and seen him many times and I NEVER heard him speak bad about another person. Every speech and every gesture that he does is with love and kindness to fellow human beings.
He is a man that refused to take medicine for his sickness because it may make him sleepy, for all those that are so easy to knock and speak badly of him I say follow him around for 1 day.... From his morning smile to his dragging himself to shul to his patient ear when someone needs help.Follow him to his modest house where he is forced to lay most of the day on his couch. Zero strenght to move ...yet is there for whomever needs him...seeing him deliver a shiur shaking and barely able to speak lying on his couch....Please a little respect from all you ignorant rabble rousers.
Its about time to stop seeking ways to knock people. If you haven't heard him speak to you direct refrain from posting your hatefull comments....

100% right, BUT it's not about the RABBI, it's about is the small people I take a lot of information from the Internet - not only for business even for Knowledge - so that someone in street should REBUKE me, if you happy to see the world by the window of a orthodox newspaper than your a lucky guy!

87

 Apr 03, 2009 at 07:59 AM avi Says:

Rabbossai,
You may disagree with a gadol, but in a ba'kavodike way!! I must make a public ma'acha against those who choose to personally attack the Rosh Yeshiva SHLIT"A, rather than disagree with what he's said!

88

 Apr 03, 2009 at 09:30 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
Anonymous Says:

When are we going to take a stand against this authoritarian nonsense? If our faith can't deal with modernity, then we have a very serious problem. Sticking our head in the sand and hoping it will go away isn't going to work. The more diatribes like this from a well-meaning but deeply out of touch Gadol, the more kids will be off the Derech

It's not our Faith, but rather our People! As Rav Joseph Breuer O"bm commented about watching television, "the problem isn't the television, the rpoblem is the watcher!"

89

 Apr 03, 2009 at 09:51 AM Perspective Says:

Reply to #79  
Anonymous Says:

The Rav is of course right, but he has not gone far enough. Also all books and magazines should be banned; most of those I see on store shelves are not fit for heimishe people.
And while I am at it, I really liked the last sentence of #29, it is a real oxymoron: "Shame on all of you who dare speak about one of the gedolei hador behind their backs on an open forum in such a demoting manner.”
BEHIND HIS BACK and AN OPEN FORUM don't go together.

Yes you are right it seems to be an oxymoron however as the Rosh will never be attending this forum I would classify this a public domain yet at the same time behind his back.
Does that make sense?

90

 Apr 03, 2009 at 10:00 AM chaim from boro park Says:

as the saintly rabbi Freifeld zt'l,used to say,
if the only way we can protect and defend the torah and yidishkeit,is with banning everyone and everything around us,then we have admited that chas veshalom
we and our religion are bankrupt.
think about this,and you will realize how right he was


91

 Apr 03, 2009 at 09:57 AM midwesterner Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

this is why there are so many people that go off the derech. there is nothing that a jewish boy could do to socialize.

what does socialize have to do with the internet?! Please make some sense while bashing others.

92

 Apr 03, 2009 at 09:42 AM Yehuda Says:

Reply to #41  
amazed Says:

Do you think the Rebbe would not have a problem with the Internet?

Stop kidding yourself!!!

The Rebbe also had a problem with TV. In the fifties he spoke about the morality issue with TV shows (and then they were tame compared to today).Most Lubavitcher families do not have a TV. However the Rebbe said that since there are many Jews who do have and watch TV then we as frum Jews have to reach out to them via this media thus bringing out the good that technology has to offer. That's why the major weekday farbrengens were televised with english subtitles and many people did end up watching parts of the farbrengens and picked up knowledge of yiddishkeit.
In today's world of internet the Rebbe woul also say put the Jewish content out there for the world to see but he would also be against unsupervised or unkosher surfing. Yes there is a lot of Jewish content but there is also a lot of garbage out there and all Rav Finkel is saying is that it is very easy to be led astray and people have to be very wary of the internet. Many frum people have gone astray because of it. There are many stories out there of how marriages have been ruined, how teens have viewed the problematic sites, etc. So do not put down what RAv finkel and other leaders are warning us about. It is not Talibanazation It is just common sense to be careful and wary of non-kosher use of the internet.

93

 Apr 03, 2009 at 11:03 AM Anonymous Says:

#24 what are you talking about, there are rules on how mitzvahs are to be performed, you won’t buy a lemon if you can’t find an esrog that is not an excuse , same here the “tools” necessary to rebuke another yid are missing for most people.

94

 Apr 03, 2009 at 12:05 PM A Says:

Reply to #90  
chaim from boro park Says:

as the saintly rabbi Freifeld zt'l,used to say,
if the only way we can protect and defend the torah and yidishkeit,is with banning everyone and everything around us,then we have admited that chas veshalom
we and our religion are bankrupt.
think about this,and you will realize how right he was


I hadn't heard that before, it's really very good. Do you have Rabbi Freifeld's exact quotation, I'd like to save it.

95

 Apr 03, 2009 at 12:15 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #90  
chaim from boro park Says:

as the saintly rabbi Freifeld zt'l,used to say,
if the only way we can protect and defend the torah and yidishkeit,is with banning everyone and everything around us,then we have admited that chas veshalom
we and our religion are bankrupt.
think about this,and you will realize how right he was


he meant that we shouldt have to ban things. we as frum yidden should have the common sense to know what is right and wrong and what is good fos us and whats not. or at least listen to gedolim. unfortunately many of us dont have that common sense and dont listen to gedolim and actually disgrace them as is quite evident from many of the posts. so i guess well have to admit that were bankrupt if thats whats gonna preserve yiddishkeit

96

 Apr 03, 2009 at 12:02 PM A Says:

Reply to #82  
Rippin Pinchas Says:

"I've never knowingly gone to a porn site"

However, it is mashmah that you inadvertently went to a porn site. That in itself is a problem.

15 years ago, before ad-blocking software was around there were a few times that clicking a link for what looked like a legitimate website would instead take me to sites I didn't want to go to and ads upon ads would open up, some were for porn sites. It takes less than a millisecond to close a browser and that's what I did. That type of thing hasn't happened in years, not with all the new software that helps prevent it. So, no, it's not a problem anymore. I haven't accidentally seen any porn on the internet in a decade....and certainly not on purpose either!

97

 Apr 03, 2009 at 01:13 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #55  
anonymos Says:

whats wrong with everybody. How dare anyone speak like this against the holiest man of our genaration. I am certain if any of you would meet him you would immediately to teshuva.



I am afraid to say that these people are against anything to do with torah. The Mirrer Rosh Hayeshiva Shlit"a hashem should gove him strength and gezunt is a "Heilige Yid" who is moser nefesh for torah & yidishkeit every word he says is holy and here we have people who are so distant from him making fun of him. The Rosh Hayeshiva Shlit"a loves every single yid and when he makes these statements it means that these things are affecting his health he means our good. Some of these people who made these coments should go to E.Y and fall at his feet to ask forgivness.

98

 Apr 03, 2009 at 03:09 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #15  
Madreiga Applies Says:

Come on you guys. If a bachur is learning in Mir they had better be on the appropriate madreiga. Obviously, if a bachur's head is not in the gemarah but on the internet playing around, it defeats the purpose of learning in Yerushalayim. It is not shayich to that derech. That's all the R'Y is saying and it is appropriate. My chevrei learning in Kollel in Mir Yerushalayim do not have computers at all. I have to call them on the phone to say hello. I actually like that more than an occassional email. I buy the Kirby Card and support OORAH so it is a mitzvah every time I call. You should do the same !!!!

That's just the point!! Just because you have a bachur for a son, doesn't mean he ought to go to Israel to learn just cuz everybody else does it. How about making something of themselves and not whiling away the time? Not to put down those who put their all into it.

99

 Apr 05, 2009 at 09:06 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #57  
Anonymous Says:

"the holiest man of our genaration"
????

Have you not heard of Rav Moshe, Rav YB Solivechek, Rav. Aaron Cutler, Rav Meyer Gershinsky Z'tl. These gadolim are not "chopped herring".
"

I said our generation,

100

Sign-in to post a comment

Scroll Up
Advertisements:

Sell your scrap gold and broken jewelry and earn hard cash sell gold today!