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Queens, NY - Life Sentences in Dentist Murder

Published on: April 21, 2009 12:06 PM
By: WABC News
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After sentencing in courtAfter sentencing in court

Queens, NY - A New York City doctor and her cousin will spend the rest of their lives in prison.

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Dr. Mazoltuv Borukhova and her cousin, Mikhail Mallayev, both received life in prison without the possibility of parole.

They plotted the killing of Borukhova’s estranged husband.

Orthodontist Daniel Malakov was gunned down in a park in front of the couple’s 4-year-old daughter.

The two were convicted last month of first-degree murder and conspiracy.

Prosecutors say Borukhova was distraught over temporarily losing custody. She hired her relative to kill Malakov for about $20,000 in October 2007.

Mallayev also was convicted of weapon possession - the gun and makeshift silencer used in the killing.



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Read Comments (92)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Apr 21, 2009 at 11:20 AM Anonymous Says:

i wonder why she lost custody in the first place.. you know.. besides for the whole being a psychopath thing..

2

 Apr 21, 2009 at 11:18 AM Anonymous Says:

wow.. she really made great use of her intelligent mind.. and her 8 year $250,000 medical degree. Pretty stupid to throw everything away like that!

3

 Apr 21, 2009 at 11:26 AM Eli Says:

No mercy, the Torah suggests even a harsher punishment for murder.
But the child is a big rachmonis.

4

 Apr 21, 2009 at 11:39 AM Moshe Says:

Let's wait to hear her side of the story before condemning her.

5

 Apr 21, 2009 at 11:43 AM bitachon Says:

Once again, the biggest loser in this whole thing is the poor child.
Parents are the biggest influences on children. Not mechanchim and Rabbis.

6

 Apr 21, 2009 at 11:59 AM Realist Says:

Reply to #5  
bitachon Says:

Once again, the biggest loser in this whole thing is the poor child.
Parents are the biggest influences on children. Not mechanchim and Rabbis.

Parents...or lack of them...

7

 Apr 21, 2009 at 11:58 AM Robert M. Lasovitz Says:

Reply to #4  
Moshe Says:

Let's wait to hear her side of the story before condemning her.

The jury DID hear her side of the story at the trial. Her defense presented evidence and witnesses.

Now that the jury has heard her side of the story, and the prosecution's side of the story, and has duly convicted her, send her off to the pen!

8

 Apr 21, 2009 at 11:55 AM Realist Says:

Reply to #4  
Moshe Says:

Let's wait to hear her side of the story before condemning her.

Wake up Moishe!!!!!
We heard her side of the story!
The jury didn't fall for it!
Neither did anyone else, for that matter!

9

 Apr 21, 2009 at 11:52 AM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #3  
Eli Says:

No mercy, the Torah suggests even a harsher punishment for murder.
But the child is a big rachmonis.

The Torah suggests “Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh”. Stop putting your feelings into the Torah. She did something terrible for what she should be punished and even punished harshly, but this life in prison “without the possibility of parole” doesn’t sit right with me. Are you going to tell me that she should still sit at 80 in jail while common criminals and murderers are roaming the streets after having sat between 8 and 20 years?

Again I know that what I have to say won’t be popular and therefore I feel even more obligated to say it, that it seems to me that this is another case where the judge thought that THIS time he/she has the Jewish community with him/her and will give the harshest sentence possible. Can anyone please explain why the “without the possibility of parole” was necessary?

My comment is not meant to stick up for her, which her despicable act cannot be defended. My comments are only meant to wake up people to stop and think what else is at play here. Even if one person will understand, it was worthwhile to have wasted my time to write.

10

 Apr 21, 2009 at 11:51 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Moshe Says:

Let's wait to hear her side of the story before condemning her.

We already heard it dummy, in case you missed the trial.

11

 Apr 21, 2009 at 11:49 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Moshe Says:

Let's wait to hear her side of the story before condemning her.

Her side of the story is: I was angry!!

12

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:03 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

wow.. she really made great use of her intelligent mind.. and her 8 year $250,000 medical degree. Pretty stupid to throw everything away like that!

shtayt in pirkei avos Al Tadin...

13

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:12 PM WolfishMusings Says:

Reply to #9  
Askupeh Says:

The Torah suggests “Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh”. Stop putting your feelings into the Torah. She did something terrible for what she should be punished and even punished harshly, but this life in prison “without the possibility of parole” doesn’t sit right with me. Are you going to tell me that she should still sit at 80 in jail while common criminals and murderers are roaming the streets after having sat between 8 and 20 years?

Again I know that what I have to say won’t be popular and therefore I feel even more obligated to say it, that it seems to me that this is another case where the judge thought that THIS time he/she has the Jewish community with him/her and will give the harshest sentence possible. Can anyone please explain why the “without the possibility of parole” was necessary?

My comment is not meant to stick up for her, which her despicable act cannot be defended. My comments are only meant to wake up people to stop and think what else is at play here. Even if one person will understand, it was worthwhile to have wasted my time to write.

Most "common murderers" commit their crimes in the "heat of the moment" (i.e. in a moment of passion, as a result of a robbery gone bad, etc.). In other words, they didn't set out to kill someone. That doesn't make them blameless, of course, and they *should* be punished for their crimes. But in this case, Dr. Borukhova actually planned a murder. In my book, a premeditated murder is far worse than one that happens in other circumstances.

The Wolf

14

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:20 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #13  
WolfishMusings Says:

Most "common murderers" commit their crimes in the "heat of the moment" (i.e. in a moment of passion, as a result of a robbery gone bad, etc.). In other words, they didn't set out to kill someone. That doesn't make them blameless, of course, and they *should* be punished for their crimes. But in this case, Dr. Borukhova actually planned a murder. In my book, a premeditated murder is far worse than one that happens in other circumstances.

The Wolf

What about Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh?

To a women locked into a custody battle, the entire time is "heat of the moment".

15

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:19 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Askupeh Says:

The Torah suggests “Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh”. Stop putting your feelings into the Torah. She did something terrible for what she should be punished and even punished harshly, but this life in prison “without the possibility of parole” doesn’t sit right with me. Are you going to tell me that she should still sit at 80 in jail while common criminals and murderers are roaming the streets after having sat between 8 and 20 years?

Again I know that what I have to say won’t be popular and therefore I feel even more obligated to say it, that it seems to me that this is another case where the judge thought that THIS time he/she has the Jewish community with him/her and will give the harshest sentence possible. Can anyone please explain why the “without the possibility of parole” was necessary?

My comment is not meant to stick up for her, which her despicable act cannot be defended. My comments are only meant to wake up people to stop and think what else is at play here. Even if one person will understand, it was worthwhile to have wasted my time to write.

“Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh” is true, but so is "Dinah D'Molchisa Dinah".

16

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:36 PM WolfishMusings Says:

Reply to #14  
Askupeh Says:

What about Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh?

To a women locked into a custody battle, the entire time is "heat of the moment".

"What about Ein Shliach..."

So tell me, do you *really* believe that someone who plans a murder and hires a murderer to carry it out should not be punished at all??!

"To a women locked into a custody battle, the entire time is "heat of the moment"."

No, it's not. My mother had a particularly bad divorce from my father over the span of several years... and yet both of them were well able to be rational human beings and raise their kids properly. The fact that you're seeimingly willing to absolve this woman of all responsibility is particularly disturbing.

The Wolf

17

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:34 PM Anonymous Says:

The problem is she won't last in jail until she is 80. The anti-semites, be they the prison staff or other criminals, will get to her way before that. #9 is right; she is being made an example of for the worst reasons.

18

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Anonymous Says:

wow.. she really made great use of her intelligent mind.. and her 8 year $250,000 medical degree. Pretty stupid to throw everything away like that!

she went to medical school in Uzbekistan where any butcher can get a degree with a few som and the right connections.

In any case, mazeltov to Mazoltuv on her new apartment. She should enjoy it ad 120 shana!

19

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:40 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #15  
Anonymous Says:

“Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh” is true, but so is "Dinah D'Molchisa Dinah".

Does Dina Demalchisa Dina say to think like a Goy?

20

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:39 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #12  
Anonymous Says:

shtayt in pirkei avos Al Tadin...

I guess you support a lawless society. No courts, no Bais Din; Because es shtayt "Al Tadin"!
Why don't you go learn what that's referring to, instead of showing us your imbicilic level?
SHEEEEEEESH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

21

 Apr 21, 2009 at 01:16 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Askupeh Says:

The Torah suggests “Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh”. Stop putting your feelings into the Torah. She did something terrible for what she should be punished and even punished harshly, but this life in prison “without the possibility of parole” doesn’t sit right with me. Are you going to tell me that she should still sit at 80 in jail while common criminals and murderers are roaming the streets after having sat between 8 and 20 years?

Again I know that what I have to say won’t be popular and therefore I feel even more obligated to say it, that it seems to me that this is another case where the judge thought that THIS time he/she has the Jewish community with him/her and will give the harshest sentence possible. Can anyone please explain why the “without the possibility of parole” was necessary?

My comment is not meant to stick up for her, which her despicable act cannot be defended. My comments are only meant to wake up people to stop and think what else is at play here. Even if one person will understand, it was worthwhile to have wasted my time to write.

Premeditated Murder

22

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:58 PM WolfishMusings Says:

Reply to #19  
Askupeh Says:

Does Dina Demalchisa Dina say to think like a Goy?

Suggesting that someone keep the laws of the land (and be punished when they intentionally break them) is "thinking like a Goy?"

The Wolf

23

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:55 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Moshe Says:

Let's wait to hear her side of the story before condemning her.

Idiot. SHe already had her time to tell her side. Dont you read newspapers? SHe appeared in court and lied through her teeth. SHoteh!

24

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:54 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Its a great day for Jews everywhere and of every stripe when one of our own gets life in prison for committing so heinous an act. It sends the world the right message. I myself have no qualms about the sentence. Let's not forget that her victim is dead and buried.

25

 Apr 21, 2009 at 01:22 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Askupeh Says:

The Torah suggests “Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh”. Stop putting your feelings into the Torah. She did something terrible for what she should be punished and even punished harshly, but this life in prison “without the possibility of parole” doesn’t sit right with me. Are you going to tell me that she should still sit at 80 in jail while common criminals and murderers are roaming the streets after having sat between 8 and 20 years?

Again I know that what I have to say won’t be popular and therefore I feel even more obligated to say it, that it seems to me that this is another case where the judge thought that THIS time he/she has the Jewish community with him/her and will give the harshest sentence possible. Can anyone please explain why the “without the possibility of parole” was necessary?

My comment is not meant to stick up for her, which her despicable act cannot be defended. My comments are only meant to wake up people to stop and think what else is at play here. Even if one person will understand, it was worthwhile to have wasted my time to write.

Your reasoning is so flawed. You want to say that all murderers should go free or at most lighter punishment, because another murderer didn't get his fair punishment al pi beis din. That makes no sense. If you apply this all-or-nothing logic in other areas of your hashkafa, you need some serious self-examination.

26

 Apr 21, 2009 at 01:20 PM Bob Says:

Reply to #9  
Askupeh Says:

The Torah suggests “Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh”. Stop putting your feelings into the Torah. She did something terrible for what she should be punished and even punished harshly, but this life in prison “without the possibility of parole” doesn’t sit right with me. Are you going to tell me that she should still sit at 80 in jail while common criminals and murderers are roaming the streets after having sat between 8 and 20 years?

Again I know that what I have to say won’t be popular and therefore I feel even more obligated to say it, that it seems to me that this is another case where the judge thought that THIS time he/she has the Jewish community with him/her and will give the harshest sentence possible. Can anyone please explain why the “without the possibility of parole” was necessary?

My comment is not meant to stick up for her, which her despicable act cannot be defended. My comments are only meant to wake up people to stop and think what else is at play here. Even if one person will understand, it was worthwhile to have wasted my time to write.

#9 is fully correct.

27

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:53 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Moshe Says:

Let's wait to hear her side of the story before condemning her.

#4: Huh? Are you crazy or something? Correct me if I'm wrong, but your statement seems to imply that while she did conspire to commit murder in the first degree, IT MAY HAVE BEEN JUSTIFIED???? Other than an imminent, implacable and fatal threat, (and Amalek, which I wouldn't classify as 'murder') since when is murder justified? I wonder, had the victim been your Father\Son\Brother, if you would have made that comment.....

28

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:53 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #16  
WolfishMusings Says:

"What about Ein Shliach..."

So tell me, do you *really* believe that someone who plans a murder and hires a murderer to carry it out should not be punished at all??!

"To a women locked into a custody battle, the entire time is "heat of the moment"."

No, it's not. My mother had a particularly bad divorce from my father over the span of several years... and yet both of them were well able to be rational human beings and raise their kids properly. The fact that you're seeimingly willing to absolve this woman of all responsibility is particularly disturbing.

The Wolf

Read my original post where I made it clear that Chas Vesholom I don’t condone such a dastardly act. My purpose it to bring “thought” to the table.

Now regarding “heat of the moment” you are right, but I that comment was more tongue in cheek. But regarding Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh, it needs to be seriously thought through, and more importantly thought through like a Yid. Many comments if not most comments reflect a terrible Fargoyishtkeit in our way of thinking, even mine sometimes, so when someone like Millhouse and some others like me try to stop the trend by bringing in thought provoking Torah/Yiddish, thoughts it should be welcome.

29

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:45 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

The problem is she won't last in jail until she is 80. The anti-semites, be they the prison staff or other criminals, will get to her way before that. #9 is right; she is being made an example of for the worst reasons.

WRONG!!
She's being made an example of solely for her stubborn lack of remorse.

30

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:44 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Askupeh Says:

The Torah suggests “Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh”. Stop putting your feelings into the Torah. She did something terrible for what she should be punished and even punished harshly, but this life in prison “without the possibility of parole” doesn’t sit right with me. Are you going to tell me that she should still sit at 80 in jail while common criminals and murderers are roaming the streets after having sat between 8 and 20 years?

Again I know that what I have to say won’t be popular and therefore I feel even more obligated to say it, that it seems to me that this is another case where the judge thought that THIS time he/she has the Jewish community with him/her and will give the harshest sentence possible. Can anyone please explain why the “without the possibility of parole” was necessary?

My comment is not meant to stick up for her, which her despicable act cannot be defended. My comments are only meant to wake up people to stop and think what else is at play here. Even if one person will understand, it was worthwhile to have wasted my time to write.

Umm according to halacha this is a clear cut case that would deserve the death penalty (if the edim were kosher). If NY were a death penalty state she would fry or get put to sleep.

And tznius notwithstanding, she and Mondrowitz would make good cellmates.

31

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:43 PM shtisim Says:

Reply to #9  
Askupeh Says:

The Torah suggests “Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh”. Stop putting your feelings into the Torah. She did something terrible for what she should be punished and even punished harshly, but this life in prison “without the possibility of parole” doesn’t sit right with me. Are you going to tell me that she should still sit at 80 in jail while common criminals and murderers are roaming the streets after having sat between 8 and 20 years?

Again I know that what I have to say won’t be popular and therefore I feel even more obligated to say it, that it seems to me that this is another case where the judge thought that THIS time he/she has the Jewish community with him/her and will give the harshest sentence possible. Can anyone please explain why the “without the possibility of parole” was necessary?

My comment is not meant to stick up for her, which her despicable act cannot be defended. My comments are only meant to wake up people to stop and think what else is at play here. Even if one person will understand, it was worthwhile to have wasted my time to write.

lo sitan michshal - she cuased someone to do something wrong her punishment is even worse

32

 Apr 21, 2009 at 12:25 PM Elibelly Says:

OMG!! Dr Mazeltov??? That is too funny!!!

33

 Apr 21, 2009 at 02:00 PM WolfishMusings Says:

Reply to #28  
Askupeh Says:

Read my original post where I made it clear that Chas Vesholom I don’t condone such a dastardly act. My purpose it to bring “thought” to the table.

Now regarding “heat of the moment” you are right, but I that comment was more tongue in cheek. But regarding Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh, it needs to be seriously thought through, and more importantly thought through like a Yid. Many comments if not most comments reflect a terrible Fargoyishtkeit in our way of thinking, even mine sometimes, so when someone like Millhouse and some others like me try to stop the trend by bringing in thought provoking Torah/Yiddish, thoughts it should be welcome.

So, then, I'm confused regarding your position. You state "Ein Shliach" to imply that only the gunman is responsible. But then you turn around and state that she should be punished. So, which is it? You state that you don't "condone such a dastardly act" but that doesn't necessarily mean that it deserves punishment either.

So, what, exactly, is your opinion regarding the sentence that Dr. Borukhova deserves?

The Wolf

34

 Apr 21, 2009 at 02:00 PM I understand this sentence Says:

Reply to #9  
Askupeh Says:

The Torah suggests “Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh”. Stop putting your feelings into the Torah. She did something terrible for what she should be punished and even punished harshly, but this life in prison “without the possibility of parole” doesn’t sit right with me. Are you going to tell me that she should still sit at 80 in jail while common criminals and murderers are roaming the streets after having sat between 8 and 20 years?

Again I know that what I have to say won’t be popular and therefore I feel even more obligated to say it, that it seems to me that this is another case where the judge thought that THIS time he/she has the Jewish community with him/her and will give the harshest sentence possible. Can anyone please explain why the “without the possibility of parole” was necessary?

My comment is not meant to stick up for her, which her despicable act cannot be defended. My comments are only meant to wake up people to stop and think what else is at play here. Even if one person will understand, it was worthwhile to have wasted my time to write.

1) While you are right that ein shliach lidvar aveira for the purpose of it only means that whoever commited the crime is guilty for that crime and cannot blame the guy who sent him/her. She is guilty of PLOTTING and ASSISTING the murder only and not for CARRYING out the murder.

2) Common criminals roaming the streets blah blah blah: two wrongs don't make one right.

3) The question is if ASSISTING and PLOTTING and ARRANGING a murder does that constitute for a life in prison without parole. The judge thinks it is and you possibly debate it. In my personal opinion she is a dangerous woman who can ARRANGE or PLOT to kill her former husbands parents, lawyer, family members etc. and therefore I can understand that the judge sentenced her without a chance of parole

If she can be so dumb as to dump her career and her child because of revenge what else can she pull up her sleeve ?

35

 Apr 21, 2009 at 01:57 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #25  
Anonymous Says:

Your reasoning is so flawed. You want to say that all murderers should go free or at most lighter punishment, because another murderer didn't get his fair punishment al pi beis din. That makes no sense. If you apply this all-or-nothing logic in other areas of your hashkafa, you need some serious self-examination.

That is not what I’m saying; read again what I wrote; but this time think.

36

 Apr 21, 2009 at 01:56 PM Attended med school in Uzbekistan Says:

Reply to #18  
Anonymous Says:

she went to medical school in Uzbekistan where any butcher can get a degree with a few som and the right connections.

In any case, mazeltov to Mazoltuv on her new apartment. She should enjoy it ad 120 shana!

"she went to medical school in Uzbekistan where any butcher can get a degree with a few som and the right connections."

One may bribe one's way to med school in Uzbekistan, however,one needs a pretty significant amount of gray matter to stay in the school and complete the required course of education, rotations, labs with a passing grade of at least 80%.

37

 Apr 21, 2009 at 01:48 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #9  
Askupeh Says:

The Torah suggests “Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh”. Stop putting your feelings into the Torah. She did something terrible for what she should be punished and even punished harshly, but this life in prison “without the possibility of parole” doesn’t sit right with me. Are you going to tell me that she should still sit at 80 in jail while common criminals and murderers are roaming the streets after having sat between 8 and 20 years?

Again I know that what I have to say won’t be popular and therefore I feel even more obligated to say it, that it seems to me that this is another case where the judge thought that THIS time he/she has the Jewish community with him/her and will give the harshest sentence possible. Can anyone please explain why the “without the possibility of parole” was necessary?

My comment is not meant to stick up for her, which her despicable act cannot be defended. My comments are only meant to wake up people to stop and think what else is at play here. Even if one person will understand, it was worthwhile to have wasted my time to write.

Premeditated Murder

38

 Apr 21, 2009 at 02:51 PM avi Says:

Reply to #4  
Moshe Says:

Let's wait to hear her side of the story before condemning her.

Moshe,
you're foolish - we already know her side. she villified her husband, put thje poor kid in the middle, and had her husband killed!!

39

 Apr 21, 2009 at 02:58 PM PMO Says:

Reply to #34  
I understand this sentence Says:

1) While you are right that ein shliach lidvar aveira for the purpose of it only means that whoever commited the crime is guilty for that crime and cannot blame the guy who sent him/her. She is guilty of PLOTTING and ASSISTING the murder only and not for CARRYING out the murder.

2) Common criminals roaming the streets blah blah blah: two wrongs don't make one right.

3) The question is if ASSISTING and PLOTTING and ARRANGING a murder does that constitute for a life in prison without parole. The judge thinks it is and you possibly debate it. In my personal opinion she is a dangerous woman who can ARRANGE or PLOT to kill her former husbands parents, lawyer, family members etc. and therefore I can understand that the judge sentenced her without a chance of parole

If she can be so dumb as to dump her career and her child because of revenge what else can she pull up her sleeve ?

You pretty much got it right. In the US (pretty much in every state) hiring someone to commit a murder is the same as doing it yourself. This woman got the exact sentence she deserved to get. Had she had half a brain in her head she would have shown some remorse and plea for a lesser sentence before going to trial. Clearly she is an unrepentant, unapologetic murderer (even if by proxy), and I'm glad she will never again be a threat to anyone else.

I am a firm believer that anyone willing to pay someone to murder someone else would just as soon do it themselves... they are just afraid of getting caught.

40

 Apr 21, 2009 at 02:41 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #34  
I understand this sentence Says:

1) While you are right that ein shliach lidvar aveira for the purpose of it only means that whoever commited the crime is guilty for that crime and cannot blame the guy who sent him/her. She is guilty of PLOTTING and ASSISTING the murder only and not for CARRYING out the murder.

2) Common criminals roaming the streets blah blah blah: two wrongs don't make one right.

3) The question is if ASSISTING and PLOTTING and ARRANGING a murder does that constitute for a life in prison without parole. The judge thinks it is and you possibly debate it. In my personal opinion she is a dangerous woman who can ARRANGE or PLOT to kill her former husbands parents, lawyer, family members etc. and therefore I can understand that the judge sentenced her without a chance of parole

If she can be so dumb as to dump her career and her child because of revenge what else can she pull up her sleeve ?

Your comment is the first comment thinking in the right direction, except of course those who agreed with me here, who I say thanks for their recognition which does keep me going.

What I was trying to do was to stop everyone with getting carried away. We Yiden DO think different, we are supposed to think Torahdig and act Torahdig. Torahdig means exactly that, which is, how Abeiya and Rova WOULD have approached this, not as a prosecutor approaches it. Someone who hasn’t opened a Gemorah since grammar school cannot tell us how to think. It is getting to a point where it will become very dangerous to challenge anybody’s Goyishe Welt-anschauung. That’s why I brought in the “Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveirah” to get people thinking. Those who learn Torah understood full well at what I was driving at; others interpreted my words as somehow exonerating her, even though I took the pain to declare clearly otherwise. If my name would be Shafran, I would be run out of town; luckily I can still post anonymously and say that I stick to my words.

41

 Apr 21, 2009 at 02:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Attended med school in Uzbekistan Says:

"she went to medical school in Uzbekistan where any butcher can get a degree with a few som and the right connections."

One may bribe one's way to med school in Uzbekistan, however,one needs a pretty significant amount of gray matter to stay in the school and complete the required course of education, rotations, labs with a passing grade of at least 80%.

well if it is anything like the rest of the former soviet union you can buy grades as well. i live in the fsu and have insider info about russia and ukraine. no idea when you went as this is true only of the 1990's and further (post soviet chaos when she went).

42

 Apr 21, 2009 at 02:29 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #35  
Askupeh Says:

That is not what I’m saying; read again what I wrote; but this time think.

I read your post. You are advocating lighter punishment, because there other murderers who received lighter punishment due to likely flawed situations. You are wrong.

43

 Apr 21, 2009 at 02:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Rebbeim & mechanchim hold no responsibility? Only parents? Wait to see how the yeshivas deal with admitting this little neshamale!!!!!

44

 Apr 21, 2009 at 03:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Which jail will she be in? Imagine knowing you'll die in jail. I feel so sorry for her poor little girl...no parents to raise her. What a terrible tragedy.

45

 Apr 21, 2009 at 03:38 PM PMO Says:

Reply to #40  
Askupeh Says:

Your comment is the first comment thinking in the right direction, except of course those who agreed with me here, who I say thanks for their recognition which does keep me going.

What I was trying to do was to stop everyone with getting carried away. We Yiden DO think different, we are supposed to think Torahdig and act Torahdig. Torahdig means exactly that, which is, how Abeiya and Rova WOULD have approached this, not as a prosecutor approaches it. Someone who hasn’t opened a Gemorah since grammar school cannot tell us how to think. It is getting to a point where it will become very dangerous to challenge anybody’s Goyishe Welt-anschauung. That’s why I brought in the “Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveirah” to get people thinking. Those who learn Torah understood full well at what I was driving at; others interpreted my words as somehow exonerating her, even though I took the pain to declare clearly otherwise. If my name would be Shafran, I would be run out of town; luckily I can still post anonymously and say that I stick to my words.

I definitely understood your point. The reason for the "without the possibility of parole" was that she was unapologetic. This woman was so cold, so heartless, that she could not even admit that murder for hire was wrong. If she cannot even acknowledge that she has done something wrong, why would society trust her not to kill someone again (either herself or by proxy). Such a person should not be allowed in a position that would allow them to commit the crime again.

To address your last point... I would never run you out of town You (generally :->) make good arguments. You make this place better and you make us think.

46

 Apr 21, 2009 at 03:32 PM goilem Says:

Reply to #15  
Anonymous Says:

“Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveiroh” is true, but so is "Dinah D'Molchisa Dinah".

have you all gone mad?

ein sheliach lidvar aveira means that the cousin cannot be acquitted "because she told me to". but in no way can this serve to get her off the hook.

2- hello, dina d'malchusa dina??? what about lo tirtzach????????

47

 Apr 21, 2009 at 03:28 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #42  
Anonymous Says:

I read your post. You are advocating lighter punishment, because there other murderers who received lighter punishment due to likely flawed situations. You are wrong.

No, I'm not advocating lighter punishment either. I am bothered by the "without parole"; why was that necessary? I understand that many of you would say “throw away the keys”; but Ah Yid Redt Nisht Azoi!

For starters she will either become a Zoneh in jail to survive or get killed. That isn’t a reason not to incarcerate her; but it is also no reason for rejoicing. It is a sad day not a happy one.

48

 Apr 21, 2009 at 03:16 PM Anonymous Says:

One interesting detail, judge ordered temp custody to the husband, even though no body have asked him. Although it is not enough reasoning to kill the husband , but still there is judge fault as well

49

 Apr 21, 2009 at 04:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #47  
Askupeh Says:

No, I'm not advocating lighter punishment either. I am bothered by the "without parole"; why was that necessary? I understand that many of you would say “throw away the keys”; but Ah Yid Redt Nisht Azoi!

For starters she will either become a Zoneh in jail to survive or get killed. That isn’t a reason not to incarcerate her; but it is also no reason for rejoicing. It is a sad day not a happy one.

She deserves to get killed because she committed a capital offense.

If jailhouse justice is what offs her, then so be it. However she will not have to serve together with men so I doubt she will be in much danger.

50

 Apr 21, 2009 at 04:35 PM PMO Says:

Reply to #44  
Anonymous Says:

Which jail will she be in? Imagine knowing you'll die in jail. I feel so sorry for her poor little girl...no parents to raise her. What a terrible tragedy.

Thank H" that we live in a world where this girl can placed with good foster or adoptive parents. While tragic, this way the daughter can have a real chance at a normal life. H" already has a plan for her.

51

 Apr 21, 2009 at 03:06 PM WolfishMusings Says:

So, Askupeh, I repeat my question to you from earlier... what punishment do you think is appropriate for Dr. Borukhova?

The Wolf

52

 Apr 21, 2009 at 06:34 PM Ahem Says:

Reply to #4  
Moshe Says:

Let's wait to hear her side of the story before condemning her.

You think there's a valid reason for her killing him? Is killing a person ever recommended? Didn't she consider her child when she did that? She knew she will be caught and that she won't have a father.

53

 Apr 21, 2009 at 07:45 PM Tuvia Says:

Reply to #40  
Askupeh Says:

Your comment is the first comment thinking in the right direction, except of course those who agreed with me here, who I say thanks for their recognition which does keep me going.

What I was trying to do was to stop everyone with getting carried away. We Yiden DO think different, we are supposed to think Torahdig and act Torahdig. Torahdig means exactly that, which is, how Abeiya and Rova WOULD have approached this, not as a prosecutor approaches it. Someone who hasn’t opened a Gemorah since grammar school cannot tell us how to think. It is getting to a point where it will become very dangerous to challenge anybody’s Goyishe Welt-anschauung. That’s why I brought in the “Ein Shliach Ledvar Aveirah” to get people thinking. Those who learn Torah understood full well at what I was driving at; others interpreted my words as somehow exonerating her, even though I took the pain to declare clearly otherwise. If my name would be Shafran, I would be run out of town; luckily I can still post anonymously and say that I stick to my words.

I do agree with you on a point that we yiden should think differently in accordance with our Toiroh. At the same time, I do not see you thinking Toiroh way ether. We can’t judge her since she did not have any Din Toiroh about this case. As fare as I understand there is no direct evidence in this case, not for her not for her relative. Torah demands clear and direct evidence, not circumstances and motives. We do not know a lot of details about the case. Everybody getting so emotional about this whole thing, but wake up!! Why should we trust goishe investigators, who get $$$ and higher positions for closing the case? Did any Rabbi step in to evaluate any of the evidences? Did any Jewish Leaders open their mouth to request fair judgment, the way Toiroh requests it? When the Jews are quiet then goim do what ever they want. I will not be surprised to find out that DA planted evidence to raise a political scandal “Look Religious Jewish could also kill!! Look they are not so innocent!! Etc.

54

 Apr 21, 2009 at 08:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #43  
Anonymous Says:

Rebbeim & mechanchim hold no responsibility? Only parents? Wait to see how the yeshivas deal with admitting this little neshamale!!!!!

Somehow I doubt that guardians of this little neshamale will be interested in yeshivas. What makes you think that anybody involved has anything to do with frumkeit?

55

 Apr 21, 2009 at 08:29 PM WolfishMusings Says:

Reply to #53  
Tuvia Says:

I do agree with you on a point that we yiden should think differently in accordance with our Toiroh. At the same time, I do not see you thinking Toiroh way ether. We can’t judge her since she did not have any Din Toiroh about this case. As fare as I understand there is no direct evidence in this case, not for her not for her relative. Torah demands clear and direct evidence, not circumstances and motives. We do not know a lot of details about the case. Everybody getting so emotional about this whole thing, but wake up!! Why should we trust goishe investigators, who get $$$ and higher positions for closing the case? Did any Rabbi step in to evaluate any of the evidences? Did any Jewish Leaders open their mouth to request fair judgment, the way Toiroh requests it? When the Jews are quiet then goim do what ever they want. I will not be surprised to find out that DA planted evidence to raise a political scandal “Look Religious Jewish could also kill!! Look they are not so innocent!! Etc.


Oy... where do I start.

OK, let's take it from the top.

"We can’t judge her since she did not have any Din Toiroh about this case."

For starters, *we* aren't judging her - the state of New York is. And the state of New York *can* judge her. Indeed, not only can they, but they are required to under the 7 Noachide mitzvos. Or did you think that the civil authorities were supposed to turn her over to a bais din?

"As fare as I understand there is no direct evidence in this case, not for her not for her relative."

There is direct evidence regarding her cousin -- Mikhail Mallayev shot Malakov in broad daylight in a park in front of witnesses, who testified at the trial. As for her, there is plenty of evidence to show that she was in on the plot too. And, if you're going to tell me that you require only eyewitness testimony, then I assume that you're in favor of turning loose someone who murders a Jew with no eyewitnesses?

"Torah demands clear and direct evidence, not circumstances and motives."

But she's not being judged under a Torah standard. There is no court set up to judge such a case. And, let's not forget, a properly constituted bais din had extralegal ways of getting rid of people whom they felt should be executed for their capital crimes but could not be executed properly for one techinical reason or another. (I think I have a post about that coming up in the next week or so.)

"We do not know a lot of details about the case."

Actually, we know a great deal about this case. On a scale of 1 to 10 regarding knowledge of the murder case, this one's at least a 9.

"Everybody getting so emotional about this whole thing, but wake up!! Why should we trust goishe investigators, who get $$$ and higher positions for closing the case?"

Let's look at it this way. Police officers get a salary because someone has to pay them to do their jobs -- just like any other position on earth. Likewise, doing a good job earns you a promotion, again - just like any other position on earth. What sort of system would you have? One where the police don't get paid and get promoted for NOT closing cases?

"Did any Rabbi step in to evaluate any of the evidences?"

No, for several reasons. First of all, rabbis, by and large, are not forensic experts capable of judging evidence in a murder. Secondly, it's not their job to do so. Thirdly, I suppose you expect the police to bring in a rabbi when it's a Jew on trial, but not an imam when it's a Muslim on trial?

"Did any Jewish Leaders open their mouth to request fair judgment, the way Toiroh requests it?"

See above... she's not being judged on a Torah standard because she lives in a time and place where that is not applicable. Or, is it your opinion (since there is no Jewish court capable of trying such cases) that no Jew should ever be put on trial anywhere in the world for anything?

"When the Jews are quiet then goim do what ever they want. I will not be surprised to find out that DA planted evidence to raise a political scandal “Look Religious Jewish could also kill!! Look they are not so innocent!! Etc."

Ah, yes. The DA planted the evidence. I suppose he also killed Dr. Malakov, bribed the witnesses, stole Dr. Borukhova's and Mr. Mallayev's phones, made the phone calls and text messages between them, returned them and then took $20,000 out of her bank account and gave it to Mr. Mallayev, just to show that a Jew could kill someone.

Tell me, sir, do you actually think before you post things?

The Wolf




56

 Apr 21, 2009 at 10:47 PM Tuvia Says:

Reply to #55  
WolfishMusings Says:


Oy... where do I start.

OK, let's take it from the top.

"We can’t judge her since she did not have any Din Toiroh about this case."

For starters, *we* aren't judging her - the state of New York is. And the state of New York *can* judge her. Indeed, not only can they, but they are required to under the 7 Noachide mitzvos. Or did you think that the civil authorities were supposed to turn her over to a bais din?

"As fare as I understand there is no direct evidence in this case, not for her not for her relative."

There is direct evidence regarding her cousin -- Mikhail Mallayev shot Malakov in broad daylight in a park in front of witnesses, who testified at the trial. As for her, there is plenty of evidence to show that she was in on the plot too. And, if you're going to tell me that you require only eyewitness testimony, then I assume that you're in favor of turning loose someone who murders a Jew with no eyewitnesses?

"Torah demands clear and direct evidence, not circumstances and motives."

But she's not being judged under a Torah standard. There is no court set up to judge such a case. And, let's not forget, a properly constituted bais din had extralegal ways of getting rid of people whom they felt should be executed for their capital crimes but could not be executed properly for one techinical reason or another. (I think I have a post about that coming up in the next week or so.)

"We do not know a lot of details about the case."

Actually, we know a great deal about this case. On a scale of 1 to 10 regarding knowledge of the murder case, this one's at least a 9.

"Everybody getting so emotional about this whole thing, but wake up!! Why should we trust goishe investigators, who get $$$ and higher positions for closing the case?"

Let's look at it this way. Police officers get a salary because someone has to pay them to do their jobs -- just like any other position on earth. Likewise, doing a good job earns you a promotion, again - just like any other position on earth. What sort of system would you have? One where the police don't get paid and get promoted for NOT closing cases?

"Did any Rabbi step in to evaluate any of the evidences?"

No, for several reasons. First of all, rabbis, by and large, are not forensic experts capable of judging evidence in a murder. Secondly, it's not their job to do so. Thirdly, I suppose you expect the police to bring in a rabbi when it's a Jew on trial, but not an imam when it's a Muslim on trial?

"Did any Jewish Leaders open their mouth to request fair judgment, the way Toiroh requests it?"

See above... she's not being judged on a Torah standard because she lives in a time and place where that is not applicable. Or, is it your opinion (since there is no Jewish court capable of trying such cases) that no Jew should ever be put on trial anywhere in the world for anything?

"When the Jews are quiet then goim do what ever they want. I will not be surprised to find out that DA planted evidence to raise a political scandal “Look Religious Jewish could also kill!! Look they are not so innocent!! Etc."

Ah, yes. The DA planted the evidence. I suppose he also killed Dr. Malakov, bribed the witnesses, stole Dr. Borukhova's and Mr. Mallayev's phones, made the phone calls and text messages between them, returned them and then took $20,000 out of her bank account and gave it to Mr. Mallayev, just to show that a Jew could kill someone.

Tell me, sir, do you actually think before you post things?

The Wolf




"...text messages between them, returned them and then took $20,000 out of her bank account and gave it to Mr. Mallayev.."

Where did you get that from?
Could you give a link where did you read regarding text messages, what was on them? Regarding $20.000 from her bank acc. I have read that only he deposited $20.000, and that they could not prove that it came out from her bank acc. Please let me know where did you read that from? Thanks!

57

 Apr 21, 2009 at 11:03 PM Maskim to you Says:

Reply to #55  
WolfishMusings Says:


Oy... where do I start.

OK, let's take it from the top.

"We can’t judge her since she did not have any Din Toiroh about this case."

For starters, *we* aren't judging her - the state of New York is. And the state of New York *can* judge her. Indeed, not only can they, but they are required to under the 7 Noachide mitzvos. Or did you think that the civil authorities were supposed to turn her over to a bais din?

"As fare as I understand there is no direct evidence in this case, not for her not for her relative."

There is direct evidence regarding her cousin -- Mikhail Mallayev shot Malakov in broad daylight in a park in front of witnesses, who testified at the trial. As for her, there is plenty of evidence to show that she was in on the plot too. And, if you're going to tell me that you require only eyewitness testimony, then I assume that you're in favor of turning loose someone who murders a Jew with no eyewitnesses?

"Torah demands clear and direct evidence, not circumstances and motives."

But she's not being judged under a Torah standard. There is no court set up to judge such a case. And, let's not forget, a properly constituted bais din had extralegal ways of getting rid of people whom they felt should be executed for their capital crimes but could not be executed properly for one techinical reason or another. (I think I have a post about that coming up in the next week or so.)

"We do not know a lot of details about the case."

Actually, we know a great deal about this case. On a scale of 1 to 10 regarding knowledge of the murder case, this one's at least a 9.

"Everybody getting so emotional about this whole thing, but wake up!! Why should we trust goishe investigators, who get $$$ and higher positions for closing the case?"

Let's look at it this way. Police officers get a salary because someone has to pay them to do their jobs -- just like any other position on earth. Likewise, doing a good job earns you a promotion, again - just like any other position on earth. What sort of system would you have? One where the police don't get paid and get promoted for NOT closing cases?

"Did any Rabbi step in to evaluate any of the evidences?"

No, for several reasons. First of all, rabbis, by and large, are not forensic experts capable of judging evidence in a murder. Secondly, it's not their job to do so. Thirdly, I suppose you expect the police to bring in a rabbi when it's a Jew on trial, but not an imam when it's a Muslim on trial?

"Did any Jewish Leaders open their mouth to request fair judgment, the way Toiroh requests it?"

See above... she's not being judged on a Torah standard because she lives in a time and place where that is not applicable. Or, is it your opinion (since there is no Jewish court capable of trying such cases) that no Jew should ever be put on trial anywhere in the world for anything?

"When the Jews are quiet then goim do what ever they want. I will not be surprised to find out that DA planted evidence to raise a political scandal “Look Religious Jewish could also kill!! Look they are not so innocent!! Etc."

Ah, yes. The DA planted the evidence. I suppose he also killed Dr. Malakov, bribed the witnesses, stole Dr. Borukhova's and Mr. Mallayev's phones, made the phone calls and text messages between them, returned them and then took $20,000 out of her bank account and gave it to Mr. Mallayev, just to show that a Jew could kill someone.

Tell me, sir, do you actually think before you post things?

The Wolf




In addition, This punishment is perfect even by a torah standard. If you would take her to bais din they cannot prosecute her for murder since she didn't kill anybody by hand. But, If bais din KNOWS even without eidim they can do CERTAIN punishments according to halachah.

One of the punish,ents that are referemced in mishnah a couple of times is that if a person does certain unappropriate things to a certain level which can not be punished (and I think this definitely qualifies as such) then they would take the person put him into a small cell that he can only stand and will give him to eat raw barley until his stomach will bust.

In addition, there are a couple if instances in gemara when certain tanaaim or amoraaim had the power that they punished certain people WITHOUT eidim.

I don't remember so many sources off-hand as unfortunately I don't learn as fleising as I should.

1) There is gemara about the amorah who was massered by someone that he was meting out punishments without authority and the moiser married a goyta and he prosecuted him that he engaged in an act with an animal so he told him asher b'sar chamoirim bsorom and the giverment gave him a stick so that he shall have the authority and when the pundit threatened to masser again he killed him with the stick
2) Bais din makin v'onshin shelo min hadin
3) Makas mardis

58

 Apr 21, 2009 at 11:17 PM heshy Says:

Reply to #45  
PMO Says:

I definitely understood your point. The reason for the "without the possibility of parole" was that she was unapologetic. This woman was so cold, so heartless, that she could not even admit that murder for hire was wrong. If she cannot even acknowledge that she has done something wrong, why would society trust her not to kill someone again (either herself or by proxy). Such a person should not be allowed in a position that would allow them to commit the crime again.

To address your last point... I would never run you out of town You (generally :->) make good arguments. You make this place better and you make us think.

In NY, being "unapologetic", doesn't get you life without parole. The maximum for 2nd degree murder (all premidated murders) is 25 to life, with parole. To be "upgraded" to 1st degree murder, you need "special circumstances", such as killing a policeman or "murder committed by a defendant who is hired to commit the same for pecuniary gain or murder committed by one who is hired by the defendant to commit the same for pecuniary gain", i.e. a hired killer, and both the "hirer" and the "hireree" get the upgrade.

59

 Apr 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM Tuvia mind is ....... Says:

Reply to #53  
Tuvia Says:

I do agree with you on a point that we yiden should think differently in accordance with our Toiroh. At the same time, I do not see you thinking Toiroh way ether. We can’t judge her since she did not have any Din Toiroh about this case. As fare as I understand there is no direct evidence in this case, not for her not for her relative. Torah demands clear and direct evidence, not circumstances and motives. We do not know a lot of details about the case. Everybody getting so emotional about this whole thing, but wake up!! Why should we trust goishe investigators, who get $$$ and higher positions for closing the case? Did any Rabbi step in to evaluate any of the evidences? Did any Jewish Leaders open their mouth to request fair judgment, the way Toiroh requests it? When the Jews are quiet then goim do what ever they want. I will not be surprised to find out that DA planted evidence to raise a political scandal “Look Religious Jewish could also kill!! Look they are not so innocent!! Etc.

Please. come on. do you really beleive what you wrote ? it is after purim.

now, point to point.

The US or State of NY as a formed goverment must punish and have a punishment system for crimes. Period.

1) Look into the ramban al hatorah parshas vayetze about the story of shechem were the remban is saying that since the people didn't protest against their king's son the entore city is deserved to be killed.
2) The ramban paskens there that every form of goverment must have a punishment system for people that do crimes and that is one of the 7 laws that the entire world must abide to.
3) If the government would give her the death penalty then these questions of 2 eidim, rabbis and etc. come into the picture. Now she is being kept in a place where she cannot kill anybody anymore which is fair and just.
4) We see in the gamera shimon ben shetach saw a man running after another with a knife, both ran into a building , shimon ben shetach sees the guy coming out with a bloodied knife, in the inside the first guy is still in convulsions. and he told him that unfortuntely I cannot prosecute you but god will avenge his blood. (I don;t remeber exactly where but any talmid chacham will be able to tell you)

In the torah there are special punishments for certain offenses and for that it has to be done in a special way and the US givernment is not bounded by the law more than keeping a civil system fair and just. And therefore since the punishments do not go and are neither required to go accordingly the evidence is the same thing when it involves the killing or flogging an individual. Incarcerating somebody these proof that they have shall generally be sufficient

60

 Apr 21, 2009 at 10:30 PM Tuvia Says:

Reply to #55  
WolfishMusings Says:


Oy... where do I start.

OK, let's take it from the top.

"We can’t judge her since she did not have any Din Toiroh about this case."

For starters, *we* aren't judging her - the state of New York is. And the state of New York *can* judge her. Indeed, not only can they, but they are required to under the 7 Noachide mitzvos. Or did you think that the civil authorities were supposed to turn her over to a bais din?

"As fare as I understand there is no direct evidence in this case, not for her not for her relative."

There is direct evidence regarding her cousin -- Mikhail Mallayev shot Malakov in broad daylight in a park in front of witnesses, who testified at the trial. As for her, there is plenty of evidence to show that she was in on the plot too. And, if you're going to tell me that you require only eyewitness testimony, then I assume that you're in favor of turning loose someone who murders a Jew with no eyewitnesses?

"Torah demands clear and direct evidence, not circumstances and motives."

But she's not being judged under a Torah standard. There is no court set up to judge such a case. And, let's not forget, a properly constituted bais din had extralegal ways of getting rid of people whom they felt should be executed for their capital crimes but could not be executed properly for one techinical reason or another. (I think I have a post about that coming up in the next week or so.)

"We do not know a lot of details about the case."

Actually, we know a great deal about this case. On a scale of 1 to 10 regarding knowledge of the murder case, this one's at least a 9.

"Everybody getting so emotional about this whole thing, but wake up!! Why should we trust goishe investigators, who get $$$ and higher positions for closing the case?"

Let's look at it this way. Police officers get a salary because someone has to pay them to do their jobs -- just like any other position on earth. Likewise, doing a good job earns you a promotion, again - just like any other position on earth. What sort of system would you have? One where the police don't get paid and get promoted for NOT closing cases?

"Did any Rabbi step in to evaluate any of the evidences?"

No, for several reasons. First of all, rabbis, by and large, are not forensic experts capable of judging evidence in a murder. Secondly, it's not their job to do so. Thirdly, I suppose you expect the police to bring in a rabbi when it's a Jew on trial, but not an imam when it's a Muslim on trial?

"Did any Jewish Leaders open their mouth to request fair judgment, the way Toiroh requests it?"

See above... she's not being judged on a Torah standard because she lives in a time and place where that is not applicable. Or, is it your opinion (since there is no Jewish court capable of trying such cases) that no Jew should ever be put on trial anywhere in the world for anything?

"When the Jews are quiet then goim do what ever they want. I will not be surprised to find out that DA planted evidence to raise a political scandal “Look Religious Jewish could also kill!! Look they are not so innocent!! Etc."

Ah, yes. The DA planted the evidence. I suppose he also killed Dr. Malakov, bribed the witnesses, stole Dr. Borukhova's and Mr. Mallayev's phones, made the phone calls and text messages between them, returned them and then took $20,000 out of her bank account and gave it to Mr. Mallayev, just to show that a Jew could kill someone.

Tell me, sir, do you actually think before you post things?

The Wolf




I do not intend to offend you, but I see that you are full of Midois about this case. As we all well know from Toiroh that when person gets very much emotional his intellectual capacities dramatically drop. All information that you are calling “direct evidence” is purely based upon the press. Did you visit any court hearings prior or during the trial?

61

 Apr 21, 2009 at 10:10 PM anonymous1 Says:

Can she now marry a cohen since she's an almanah?

62

 Apr 21, 2009 at 10:08 PM BP Genius Says:

Life in prison = 30 years she might see the daylight one day.

63

 Apr 22, 2009 at 06:03 AM Shaul in Monsey Says:

I think this dude Ashkupie is a little full of himself. Racist really. He has "a problem" with the fact that psycodoc doesn't get parole. Why? Because she's Jewish. That, sir, is nothing more than racist ideology. If Rahim Abdel Rachman was in the can for the same crime we all know no one would care, and if it were a black woman, latino or anyone else, too, we'd be applauding the judge. Well, I AM applauding the judge, because as a Jew, when one of my own steps out and committs an act like this - premeditated, violent, selfish, unremorseful - you play with the bull, baby, you gettin the horns.

I'm surprised none of the frummocks here didn't mention that she was mechalel shabbos to go to the Spy Store before the murder went down. That's ok?

This sentence and the message it send are mamish mekadesh shaim shomayim. I have not a single qualm about this sentence.

64

 Apr 22, 2009 at 05:01 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #32  
Elibelly Says:

OMG!! Dr Mazeltov??? That is too funny!!!

obviously her mazel is not tov...

65

 Apr 22, 2009 at 04:42 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #62  
BP Genius Says:

Life in prison = 30 years she might see the daylight one day.

Life WITHOUT PAROLE means that the only light she will ever see is in the exercise yard.

66

 Apr 22, 2009 at 12:32 AM Anonymous Says:

let her be a doctor in jail & do something constructive instead of being a burden to taxpayers

67

 Apr 22, 2009 at 12:18 AM Tuvia Says:

Reply to #59  
Tuvia mind is ....... Says:

Please. come on. do you really beleive what you wrote ? it is after purim.

now, point to point.

The US or State of NY as a formed goverment must punish and have a punishment system for crimes. Period.

1) Look into the ramban al hatorah parshas vayetze about the story of shechem were the remban is saying that since the people didn't protest against their king's son the entore city is deserved to be killed.
2) The ramban paskens there that every form of goverment must have a punishment system for people that do crimes and that is one of the 7 laws that the entire world must abide to.
3) If the government would give her the death penalty then these questions of 2 eidim, rabbis and etc. come into the picture. Now she is being kept in a place where she cannot kill anybody anymore which is fair and just.
4) We see in the gamera shimon ben shetach saw a man running after another with a knife, both ran into a building , shimon ben shetach sees the guy coming out with a bloodied knife, in the inside the first guy is still in convulsions. and he told him that unfortuntely I cannot prosecute you but god will avenge his blood. (I don;t remeber exactly where but any talmid chacham will be able to tell you)

In the torah there are special punishments for certain offenses and for that it has to be done in a special way and the US givernment is not bounded by the law more than keeping a civil system fair and just. And therefore since the punishments do not go and are neither required to go accordingly the evidence is the same thing when it involves the killing or flogging an individual. Incarcerating somebody these proof that they have shall generally be sufficient

That’s only true if the kosher Beis Din will find her guilty with all the evidence that prosecution had presented before the bais din, and the beis din would check the evidence themselves to see whether or not this could be used as a evidence in the case.

68

 Apr 22, 2009 at 12:09 AM Moshe 2 Says:

Reply to #4  
Moshe Says:

Let's wait to hear her side of the story before condemning her.

Are you serious? - Her side of the story was heard and analyzed in court. While trying to defend herself, she told the judge all the reasons and excuses which she could think off. Read the court documents. Her side of the story is documented and stated very clearly. Yet, she still was convicted. You may feel sorry for her actions, but don't put down the US courts of justice.

69

 Apr 22, 2009 at 07:14 AM huh? Says:

Reply to #4  
Moshe Says:

Let's wait to hear her side of the story before condemning her.

you mean she might have an excuse for killing another human being??

70

 Apr 22, 2009 at 09:57 AM WolfishMusings Says:

Reply to #60  
Tuvia Says:

I do not intend to offend you, but I see that you are full of Midois about this case. As we all well know from Toiroh that when person gets very much emotional his intellectual capacities dramatically drop. All information that you are calling “direct evidence” is purely based upon the press. Did you visit any court hearings prior or during the trial?

Alas, that's what I get for posting from memory. She and the hitman had exchanged 65 phone calls in the days before the murder, not text messages. My apologies on the error.

In any event, while *I* may have learned of the evidence through the press, the key players in this drama did not. The police and the DA learned about the case first-hand. The jury (who has no vested interest in how the case turns out) had the evidence presented to them directly, not through the press. The judge (who has no vested interest in how the case turns out) also saw the evidence for himself and could have ruled any of it inadmissible if it was improper. So, while *I* know about the case through the press, let's not forget that I am not a player in this drama.

Furthermore, you still have not answered the rest of my points in post #55.

The Wolf

71

 Apr 22, 2009 at 09:20 AM Tuvia mind is ..... Says:

Reply to #67  
Tuvia Says:

That’s only true if the kosher Beis Din will find her guilty with all the evidence that prosecution had presented before the bais din, and the beis din would check the evidence themselves to see whether or not this could be used as a evidence in the case.

Not true. Dinim for the 7 bnei noach laws has its own distinguished sets of rules that apply a little diffrent in terms of punishment and evidence.

1) You are referring to a punishment al pi torah. By a ben noach one ed is enough .
2) She is not being punished for murder. She is being punished for arranging a murder.
3) Ein adam meisim atzmo rasha does not apply here since she is not prosecuted under torah law but under ben noach law (dinim) which allows you to prosecute under such circumstances
4) Your assumption that it is planted ? I will not address that.
5) Her first cousin who carried out the murder is an ed echod with which you can prosecute her for that offense
6) Incarcenation for arranging a murder is a very just sentence.

The debate is therefore for how long and chances of parole which is understandable even without any emotional factors. If it is right to go all the way ? maybe yes maybe know. A deterrent factor may also be considered in this decision

Another debatable issue is if a jew may be prosecuted under laws not issued al pi torah which in these cases are as follows:

Dina dmalchusa dina allows certain laws to be carried out according to local laws for crimes commited under the 7 mitzvos.
For monetary issues dina dmalchusa applies only as long it is not a stira to torah laws only if bith parties are jewish.
Since capital punishments does not apply these days under jewish law as there is no sanhedrin, the government can prosecute AL PI TORAH without a bais din

72

 Apr 22, 2009 at 11:39 AM Anonymous Says:

How come the judge in the divorce procedure does not take any blame? His irresponsible action (giving temp custody to a husband, where no body asked him to do so) sparked the whole story. Our divorce procedure needs a reform!

73

 Apr 22, 2009 at 11:13 AM Ashkupie Bla"z Says:

Reply to #63  
Shaul in Monsey Says:

I think this dude Ashkupie is a little full of himself. Racist really. He has "a problem" with the fact that psycodoc doesn't get parole. Why? Because she's Jewish. That, sir, is nothing more than racist ideology. If Rahim Abdel Rachman was in the can for the same crime we all know no one would care, and if it were a black woman, latino or anyone else, too, we'd be applauding the judge. Well, I AM applauding the judge, because as a Jew, when one of my own steps out and committs an act like this - premeditated, violent, selfish, unremorseful - you play with the bull, baby, you gettin the horns.

I'm surprised none of the frummocks here didn't mention that she was mechalel shabbos to go to the Spy Store before the murder went down. That's ok?

This sentence and the message it send are mamish mekadesh shaim shomayim. I have not a single qualm about this sentence.

For the record I love every Jew, be it a Litvak, a Chosid, a Yekke, a Misnaged, a Sefardi or an Ashkenazi, a Teimaner or a Morroccon Jew, An Hungarian or a Galitzianer; I love every single Jew, you Shaul included, even if I have major differences of opinion with you. I am not a racist for not believing in our justice system; my position is borne out of Klal Yisroel’s experience for the last two thousand years and by my personal experience and knowledge of the past century. I am not bigoted against any non-Jews in any way, shape or form, and all who know me will testify to it. Bekitzer, I consider myself an extremely open minded person who can tolerate everyone’s views even yours; I just ask for some toleration of mine. Is it too much to ask? To accuse me as a racist is very insulting, even if it is anonymous. Haker Nu Lemi Hachosemes Ulemi Hapsillim.

74

 Apr 22, 2009 at 10:42 AM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #53  
Tuvia Says:

I do agree with you on a point that we yiden should think differently in accordance with our Toiroh. At the same time, I do not see you thinking Toiroh way ether. We can’t judge her since she did not have any Din Toiroh about this case. As fare as I understand there is no direct evidence in this case, not for her not for her relative. Torah demands clear and direct evidence, not circumstances and motives. We do not know a lot of details about the case. Everybody getting so emotional about this whole thing, but wake up!! Why should we trust goishe investigators, who get $$$ and higher positions for closing the case? Did any Rabbi step in to evaluate any of the evidences? Did any Jewish Leaders open their mouth to request fair judgment, the way Toiroh requests it? When the Jews are quiet then goim do what ever they want. I will not be surprised to find out that DA planted evidence to raise a political scandal “Look Religious Jewish could also kill!! Look they are not so innocent!! Etc.

You are right. When I opened the radio last night and heard her plain words “I didn’t kill my husband”, I said to myself, that maybe, maybe she Takeh didn’t do it. I know that there is evidence for it, the strongest one the money given to her cousin, but still their remains a slight amount of doubt in my mind of her full guilt. The court and jurors aren’t Mechayev me a thing As Duvey correctly stated; the only thing that is me Mechayev is to think like a Yid. Based on everything I know, contrary to many here, I have no trust in the justice system, although we have nothing better for criminal cases.

And to Wolfish (Walrus?) Musings, my answer is the same as I already stated that she should have gotten exactly that minus the “without possibility of parole”, which was totally unnecessary. You see even Dr. Friedgood who killed his wife in 1975 and convicted in 1977 got only 25 years to life and was released on his sixth parole try in 2007.

75

 Apr 22, 2009 at 03:06 PM Anonymous Says:

to: #48/#73 whats wrong with u ? It looks like u have the same mindset like dr. maziltov... !! Why shouldn't the father get custody anyway ??

76

 Apr 22, 2009 at 03:15 PM Anonymous Says:

sorry i meant #48 and# "72" btw according to your way of thinking , the husband was also at fault for divorcing her, and even more for, accepeting custody of his son.........!!!

77

 Apr 22, 2009 at 02:48 PM Buncha Dumdums Says:

Reply to #13  
WolfishMusings Says:

Most "common murderers" commit their crimes in the "heat of the moment" (i.e. in a moment of passion, as a result of a robbery gone bad, etc.). In other words, they didn't set out to kill someone. That doesn't make them blameless, of course, and they *should* be punished for their crimes. But in this case, Dr. Borukhova actually planned a murder. In my book, a premeditated murder is far worse than one that happens in other circumstances.

The Wolf

y is premeditated worse i mean i know its considered 1st degree and on the spur of the moment its 2nd degree but b/c the rodef was angry its better if someone becomes angry it is there fault
its like saying that its not my fault i crashed i was going too fast!!!

78

 Apr 22, 2009 at 02:39 PM Buncha Dumdums Says:

Reply to #13  
WolfishMusings Says:

Most "common murderers" commit their crimes in the "heat of the moment" (i.e. in a moment of passion, as a result of a robbery gone bad, etc.). In other words, they didn't set out to kill someone. That doesn't make them blameless, of course, and they *should* be punished for their crimes. But in this case, Dr. Borukhova actually planned a murder. In my book, a premeditated murder is far worse than one that happens in other circumstances.

The Wolf

y is premeditated worse i mean i know its considered 1st degree and on the spur of the moment its 2nd degree but b/c the rodef was angry its better if someone becomes angry it is there fault
its like saying that its not my fault i crashed i was going too fast!!!

79

 Apr 22, 2009 at 04:09 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #76  
Anonymous Says:

sorry i meant #48 and# "72" btw according to your way of thinking , the husband was also at fault for divorcing her, and even more for, accepeting custody of his son.........!!!

There was no reason for the judge to take away the child from the mother! Judge made things worse then they were. Has nothing to do with husband. Even Torah says: "If you come across a bird's nest on a tree or upon the ground, containing chicks or eggs, and the mother bird is roosting upon the chicks or upon the eggs, then you must not take the mother along with the young. You shall surely send away the mother and only then take the young, in order that it might be good for you and so that you shall merit length of days" (Devarim 22:6-7). Even animals have pain and suffering when they see their offspring are taken away, needles to say about humans. In my simple opinion, that is what caused the problem. Mother simply went mishugah. I guess it is all mothers nature. Torah also connects it with a length of days… I do not say mother is innocent, but Judge was not supposed to do it

80

 Apr 22, 2009 at 10:15 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Reply to #73  
Ashkupie Bla"z Says:

For the record I love every Jew, be it a Litvak, a Chosid, a Yekke, a Misnaged, a Sefardi or an Ashkenazi, a Teimaner or a Morroccon Jew, An Hungarian or a Galitzianer; I love every single Jew, you Shaul included, even if I have major differences of opinion with you. I am not a racist for not believing in our justice system; my position is borne out of Klal Yisroel’s experience for the last two thousand years and by my personal experience and knowledge of the past century. I am not bigoted against any non-Jews in any way, shape or form, and all who know me will testify to it. Bekitzer, I consider myself an extremely open minded person who can tolerate everyone’s views even yours; I just ask for some toleration of mine. Is it too much to ask? To accuse me as a racist is very insulting, even if it is anonymous. Haker Nu Lemi Hachosemes Ulemi Hapsillim.

Sorry chief, you can't have it both ways. Your opinion, which I will defend your right to post to the enth degree, once posted, is fair game. Your position, your so stated qualms about the sentence, are in my opinion, an absolute disappointment. And I have said so. This isn't personal. I am not mailing you a letter to your house calling you a racist. I am saying that your problem with the sentence has its seeds in racism. And I stand by that opinion.

Psychodoc deserves no compassion. The elements of the case, regardless of klerring this or phumphing that, beg for capital punishment. Whether Jew, Arab, Black, does not matter.

I would suggest with that kopp of yours you understand what I'm saying. So stop with the personal nonsense, and remember that there is a man, a fellow Jew of yours, dead and buried. Put there by a narcissistic, disgraceful animal. You have qualms about the sentence? Go lobby for the death penalty. Because if her sentence give you qualms, her getting parole ever should make you vomit.

81

 Apr 23, 2009 at 12:32 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #80  
Shaul in Monsey Says:

Sorry chief, you can't have it both ways. Your opinion, which I will defend your right to post to the enth degree, once posted, is fair game. Your position, your so stated qualms about the sentence, are in my opinion, an absolute disappointment. And I have said so. This isn't personal. I am not mailing you a letter to your house calling you a racist. I am saying that your problem with the sentence has its seeds in racism. And I stand by that opinion.

Psychodoc deserves no compassion. The elements of the case, regardless of klerring this or phumphing that, beg for capital punishment. Whether Jew, Arab, Black, does not matter.

I would suggest with that kopp of yours you understand what I'm saying. So stop with the personal nonsense, and remember that there is a man, a fellow Jew of yours, dead and buried. Put there by a narcissistic, disgraceful animal. You have qualms about the sentence? Go lobby for the death penalty. Because if her sentence give you qualms, her getting parole ever should make you vomit.

I hear what you are saying, but I will say it once more that the "without parole" was totally not necessary. Dr. Charles Friedgood killed his wife in 1975 and was convicted in 1977 and sentenced 25 years to life. After his sixth try with the help of his daughter who has forgiven him he was released in 2007, they say: he is a changed man, he is now 91. Ah Yid iz ah Yid, iz ah Yid. No matter how bad a Yid has Farkruchen, even to the point of killing another Yid, he/she STILL is Ah Yid. I have made it abundantly clear that she should have gotten a very harsh sentence, but up to the point of throwing away the keys. Even if you won’t like it I’ll try to Krich Arein into her Neshomeh and say what others and also I think. I know you might accuse me of being a chauvinist but I’ll say it anyway. The Gemorah says “Noshim Daaton Kaless” and it is true today as much as it was true then. One Pshat is that you can’t reason with a woman, once she goes bezerk, no reasoning will prevail, and only solid changes in the air will get her to reach equilibrium again. Therefore this SCORNED women who the judge took HER only child away from her went totally bezerk. No I’m not justifying it, I’m only explaining it. Even a murder can be explained what went on in the mind of murderer. Now when IMO family members got involved to teach this husband a lesson, she went with her only solution in her sick and bezerk mind. A woman in this state could be considered “in the moment of passion”, because every moment that she doesn’t have her child and every moment she thinks that all is lost she is in a state of mind as if in the moment of passion. Azehi Chochom Horoah Es Hanolod, I’m looking decades and years ahead where it might happen that she will become a changed woman. If she survives that long, it is my belief knowing the Neshoma of a Yid that she might very well become a changed person. Like in the Friiedgood murder, HER daughter might someday plead for the release of her mother. What are you going to say then? Therefore when I see a judge throwing away the keys of a fellow Jew, it hurts, yes it really hurts. Not that she is going to jail hurts, but that we in the fellow Jews have agreed with the judge that there is no hope for her anymore. This fundamental fact should hurt every Jew. We say on Yom Kippur that the most sinful person can do Teshuvah, even Menasheh Melech Yisroel did Teshuvah, but we will give up on her? Nein and Nochamul Nein. Hakodosh Boruch Hu says “Mah Ani Rachim Ahf Atoh Rachim” His Goel Hadam is allowed to express themselves like many here have, but we Yiden NOT.

I have stated it many times that from a Yiddisha point of view and from what we experienced in our long history it is impossible for a Jew to get true justice even in America. Would a jury of only Chasidim be allowed in a jury where a Chosid is on trial? The answer is “NO”. Not even one Chosid will be allowed to be on that jury! Now in the OJ Simpson case I think that the ENTIRE jury was black and it was acceptable as if nothing has happened. This is just one of thousands of anecdotes which show black on white (no pun intended) that justice for a Jew in a non-Jewish court is impossible. Again we don’t have anything else; the Sanhedrin is not here yet, but at lease Lomir Zich Nisht Naren.

82

 Apr 23, 2009 at 08:43 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Reb Yid, Noshim Daaton Kaless is a leagal argument as well, today, even in golus. She didn't take that route. Therefore she has forfeited any consideration in that regard. Had she come to court saying, I lost myself, I'm sorry, I'm hear to plea bargain, I'm here to beg for my errors, the yes - you would be right. But she did not do that. She came to court and said, nah, I didn't hear a gun shot fired at someone 10 feet away from me. I had nothing to do with it. I have no idea. She chose her path, and justice has been served beautifully. Justice for Jews? This IS justice for all of is.

This decision makes it easier for me to walk around with a yarmulke and tzitizis out, and you walk around, with, uh, however you walk around.

More great news out of Family Court in Queens today. By law, the mother's rights to the child will be stripped, and that will pave the way for the father's brothe rto adopt the child. This is truly great news for the child. Because the people that raised the mother, well, what they raise is really abominable. They ain't good parents. And I was really happy to hear that the child will be raised solely by the father's side. The mother cannot even petition for visitation. Nada. Nothing.

In any event, maybe if she received the death penalty you would be more on point. As matters stand, i am thrilled with the decision, not because of the woman who will rot in a tiny jail cell, not because of revenge, but because a father of a child was murdered in cold blood and he's in the ground, and this is JUSTICE.

83

 Apr 24, 2009 at 01:43 AM Tuvia Says:

Reply to #82  
Shaul in Monsey Says:

Reb Yid, Noshim Daaton Kaless is a leagal argument as well, today, even in golus. She didn't take that route. Therefore she has forfeited any consideration in that regard. Had she come to court saying, I lost myself, I'm sorry, I'm hear to plea bargain, I'm here to beg for my errors, the yes - you would be right. But she did not do that. She came to court and said, nah, I didn't hear a gun shot fired at someone 10 feet away from me. I had nothing to do with it. I have no idea. She chose her path, and justice has been served beautifully. Justice for Jews? This IS justice for all of is.

This decision makes it easier for me to walk around with a yarmulke and tzitizis out, and you walk around, with, uh, however you walk around.

More great news out of Family Court in Queens today. By law, the mother's rights to the child will be stripped, and that will pave the way for the father's brothe rto adopt the child. This is truly great news for the child. Because the people that raised the mother, well, what they raise is really abominable. They ain't good parents. And I was really happy to hear that the child will be raised solely by the father's side. The mother cannot even petition for visitation. Nada. Nothing.

In any event, maybe if she received the death penalty you would be more on point. As matters stand, i am thrilled with the decision, not because of the woman who will rot in a tiny jail cell, not because of revenge, but because a father of a child was murdered in cold blood and he's in the ground, and this is JUSTICE.

Hi! This is Tuvia. All what I wanted to say is that just because court had found then guilty does not make my opinion as a frum Jew to believe that they are guilty. Because nor DA or the judge are not tzadikim and in most cases they are totally reshoim. You are all assuming that what ever investigation they have made was fair. Who said that they had any investigation about the case? I work in law firm and know abundance of cases where people were convicted of crimes that they have never committed. Just because they have a motive, police and the DA did everything to “prove” their agenda, to close the case, and in some instances to cover the real person who committed the crime. You could look up some books and articles that Prof. Alan Dershovitz wrote on how in his practice he have proved, how Police had planted and fabricated the evidences and prepared their witnesses how to lye. For those who are interested on the subject could visit
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/19/sunday/main4954764.shtml

As I said earlier, I am not believing the story, as persuasive as the press makes it, until the Kosher Beis Din will paskin that they are guilty.

84

 Apr 24, 2009 at 07:37 AM Tuvia Says:

No it is not!! What surprises me the most is your passion about the case. Are you, by any chance, a relative of the killed father? All what I wanted to say is that just because court had found them guilty does not make my opinion as a frum yid to believe that they are guilty. Because, DA or the judge are not tzadikim and in most cases they are totally reshoim. You are all assuming that what ever investigation they have made was fair. Who said that they had any investigation about the case? I work in criminal law firm for many years and know abundance of cases where people were convicted of crimes that they have never committed. Just because they have a motive, police and the DA did everything to “prove” their agenda to close the case, and in some instances to cover the real person who committed the crime. You could look up some books and articles that Prof. Alan Dershovitz wrote on how in his practice he have proved, how Police had planted and fabricated the evidences and prepared their witnesses how to lye. For those who are interested on the subject could

85

 Apr 24, 2009 at 07:39 AM Tuvia Says:

Why do you think there is such a thing as appeal? Because police, DA, the Judge, and the jury, could all make mistakes.
Lets think for a moment; She is a doctor, that means that she has some brain. This whole thing doesnot make sence; #1. Why would she kill him in the middle of a Sunday in a park, with so many witnesses? She could’ve killed him at night when he comes home from work (end of October gets dark early). #2. Even then why wouldn’t he wear anything on his face? Did not wear gloves? #3. What did she gain by saying that she did not hear shooting, when people 4 blocks away heard it? And many more details that’s just does not make any sence. Well you could say she went crazy and so on, but why the “shooter” got crazy as well? It was not about his daughter, he is not a woman (daasan Kalah), at the end he is the one doing the “favor” not to sit in jail for the rest of his life (he has family too)? He could not wear proper gloves and a mask? At least to cover himself, come on?
As I said earlier, I do not believe the story, as persuasive as the press makes it, until the Kosher Beis Din will paskin that they are guilty. Simply because I know what’s going on in Police and DA.

86

 Apr 24, 2009 at 01:19 PM Askupeh Says:

My dear Reb Shaul, you still got me wrong. I am also happy that justice was served, no less then anyone here. That is NOT what is bothering me. What is bothering me is that the judge has thrown away the keys on a fellow Jew; that is bothering me. Except for a Goi’al Hadom it should bother every Jew. If it doesn’t, then it must be because a lack of knowledge or a lack of feeling or both.

Dr. Friedgood also denied at trial and for the next twenty five years that he killed his wife. Then he always qualified his words until he finally said it out straight, and they say that he sincerely apologized for his atrocious act. It is very understandable WHY he denied it, and the same explanation goes here.

Tuvia mentioned something here, and I would like to add my two cents. I do believe that she is guilty, but how guilty, is still open in my mind. There could very well be a scenario where she is innocent or rather not guilty as charged. It probably isn’t so, but it could very well be, that her cousin wanted to kill him for his own reasons and approached her and not the other way around. You would agree with me that there IS a difference if she approached him or he approached her. There is also a possibility that her family hatched this plot and not her. I do think that she is guilty but until we don’t have the Beth Din Hagodol in Yerushalayim some doubt will always remain, until when she finally admits her guilt lots of years from now, where she might be in the same position as Dr. Charles Friedgood in Sing-Sing; BUT who is going to care for her to get a pardon for her? That’s what is bothering me and it should bother every Jew. Besides, this is setting a precedent which will come back to haunt us all one chilly day. If Dr. Friedgood killed his wife all by himself in a premeditated murder and got 25 years to life, when Velt Iz Noch Geven Velt, so 32 years later why did the judge have to add “without parole”?

87

 Apr 24, 2009 at 02:21 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Reply to #86  
Askupeh Says:

My dear Reb Shaul, you still got me wrong. I am also happy that justice was served, no less then anyone here. That is NOT what is bothering me. What is bothering me is that the judge has thrown away the keys on a fellow Jew; that is bothering me. Except for a Goi’al Hadom it should bother every Jew. If it doesn’t, then it must be because a lack of knowledge or a lack of feeling or both.

Dr. Friedgood also denied at trial and for the next twenty five years that he killed his wife. Then he always qualified his words until he finally said it out straight, and they say that he sincerely apologized for his atrocious act. It is very understandable WHY he denied it, and the same explanation goes here.

Tuvia mentioned something here, and I would like to add my two cents. I do believe that she is guilty, but how guilty, is still open in my mind. There could very well be a scenario where she is innocent or rather not guilty as charged. It probably isn’t so, but it could very well be, that her cousin wanted to kill him for his own reasons and approached her and not the other way around. You would agree with me that there IS a difference if she approached him or he approached her. There is also a possibility that her family hatched this plot and not her. I do think that she is guilty but until we don’t have the Beth Din Hagodol in Yerushalayim some doubt will always remain, until when she finally admits her guilt lots of years from now, where she might be in the same position as Dr. Charles Friedgood in Sing-Sing; BUT who is going to care for her to get a pardon for her? That’s what is bothering me and it should bother every Jew. Besides, this is setting a precedent which will come back to haunt us all one chilly day. If Dr. Friedgood killed his wife all by himself in a premeditated murder and got 25 years to life, when Velt Iz Noch Geven Velt, so 32 years later why did the judge have to add “without parole”?

Sir, you fail to consider the context that this murder took place in, specifically the custody trial and the psychos loss of custody. I know of what I speak.

There is NO scenario that does not involve her contracting this killing, masterminding it, and making it happen. There is a better chance that Big Bird called Snuffleupagus to tell Elmo that the father bought heroin from Ernie and Bert and never paid, and then they hired Barney to kill the father, who asked the cousin for the mother's address, saw the father at the park, and then shot the father and drove off with Fred Flintstone in his car, but Barney told the cops what happened. There's a better chance of that happening then what you suggest about the cousin.

You make the same mistake as Toovyah. Each case stands on it's own.

Let's remember that justice continues to be served as the sick mother will soon not be a mother anymore as NY State moves to strip her of her maternal rights.

88

 Apr 24, 2009 at 02:14 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Reply to #84  
Tuvia Says:

No it is not!! What surprises me the most is your passion about the case. Are you, by any chance, a relative of the killed father? All what I wanted to say is that just because court had found them guilty does not make my opinion as a frum yid to believe that they are guilty. Because, DA or the judge are not tzadikim and in most cases they are totally reshoim. You are all assuming that what ever investigation they have made was fair. Who said that they had any investigation about the case? I work in criminal law firm for many years and know abundance of cases where people were convicted of crimes that they have never committed. Just because they have a motive, police and the DA did everything to “prove” their agenda to close the case, and in some instances to cover the real person who committed the crime. You could look up some books and articles that Prof. Alan Dershovitz wrote on how in his practice he have proved, how Police had planted and fabricated the evidences and prepared their witnesses how to lye. For those who are interested on the subject could

Can you let us know what firm you work for. Not for nuthin' but your spelling and grammar are atrocious and I'd like to avoid your firm if I can.

So, let me get this straight. Because Alan Dershowitz has shown cases where the prosecution lied, this woman is being wrongly jailed? Whatever. The whole she's a yid, so she deserves to be treated differently than the rest of society is such a moronic argument anyway. This woman is a danger to anyone who crosses her path. And if she is innocent, Tuvia, who murdered her husband? Clearly your comments indicate you know nothing about this case, and my questions are rhetorical.

89

 Apr 24, 2009 at 02:06 PM Shaul in Monsey Says:

Reply to #83  
Tuvia Says:

Hi! This is Tuvia. All what I wanted to say is that just because court had found then guilty does not make my opinion as a frum Jew to believe that they are guilty. Because nor DA or the judge are not tzadikim and in most cases they are totally reshoim. You are all assuming that what ever investigation they have made was fair. Who said that they had any investigation about the case? I work in law firm and know abundance of cases where people were convicted of crimes that they have never committed. Just because they have a motive, police and the DA did everything to “prove” their agenda, to close the case, and in some instances to cover the real person who committed the crime. You could look up some books and articles that Prof. Alan Dershovitz wrote on how in his practice he have proved, how Police had planted and fabricated the evidences and prepared their witnesses how to lye. For those who are interested on the subject could visit
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/19/sunday/main4954764.shtml

As I said earlier, I am not believing the story, as persuasive as the press makes it, until the Kosher Beis Din will paskin that they are guilty.

Sorry Tuvia, your position is ridculous. Borderline stupid. With all due respect, the paranoid mentality belongs in the shtetel. If you know anything about this case, you know that the woman's own words were belied by hard facts. She is a liar, a murderer and soon will be stripped of her maternal rights, Boruch Hashem.

90

 Apr 24, 2009 at 03:08 PM Askupeh Says:

I never that she should be treated any different then the rest of society. If it was a non-Jew it should be the same. Dr. Friedgood now a Frum Jew was not Frum at the time and the judge did not treat him a Jew. Here I am afraid that she got the “without parole” exactly because she is considered a religious Jew (her violating Shabos in her bezerkness, not withstanding), and also because it is perceived that this is what the Jewsish communit wants.

All I am asking is WHY the “without parole”? Why is she any different then Dr. Friedgood?

I’m done with this, and my dear friend (I love every Jew with all my heart), Gut Shabbos.

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 Apr 25, 2009 at 10:29 PM Anonymous Says:


Askupeh,

Life without parole is the result of the jury returning a special circumstances finding. If murder for hire is a special circumstance under NY law, and the jury finds that was what it was, then the judge is just following the law.

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 Apr 26, 2009 at 12:32 PM Tuvia Says:

Shaul in Monsey, I feel pity for you. How unreasonable could you get with your way of thinking? You can’t even see outside of your midos, like a child in preoperational stage of development. Waist of time! You still did not answer my question, are you related to the killed husband?

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