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Beit Shemesh, Israel - Neturei Karta Burn Flags on Independence Day |
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News Source: Ynet
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Neturei Karta burn flags Photo: APBeit Shemesh, Israel - Members of the Neturei Karta sect were burning Israeli flags Wednesday in protest against Israel’s 61st anniversary of statehood.
The protest took place during a ceremony in Beit Shemesh, near Jerusalem. Protestors carried signs saying: “We mourn Israel’s 61 years of existence”.
Beit Shemesh is home to dozens of families belonging to the Neturei Karta faith, which does not recognize Israel’s legitimacy. Followers of the faith believe a sectarian Jewish state is blasphemous and detrimental to the coming of the Messiah.
Last week, while the people of Israel honored those who perished in the Holocaust with a moment of silence, dozens of Neturei Karta members protested in Jerusalem.
At around 10 am the protestors gathered in the city’s Sabbath Square, and as the siren sounded for a moment of silence began crossing the busy street. They held signs condemning “the Zionist Holocaust Day” and clashed with police and passersby.
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Read Comments (78) — Post Yours »
1
Apr 29, 2009 at 11:49 AM Moishe Groinem Says:
At least now while they're burnning the flag we know where these people are, and they're not at some bunker meeting with Achmedenijad, Hizzbalah etc.
2
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:23 PM Anonymous Says:
Wow they really look jewish. Why can't they just move to iran or yeman? Miserable on employed ppl lol.
3
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:20 PM Anonymous Says:
This is news? Meshugaim do what what they born to do.
4
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:18 PM what a disgrace to humanity Says:
why didnt they all jump in to the fire and sacrifice themselves...... what bothers me most is that they had a nerve to protest on the day of the holocaust remembrance for those that died al kiddush hashem and were murdered and slaughtered and beaten to death that already is starting up with hashem himself and for that u got to ask all 6 million kedoshim and all those that went through those hellish years for mechila thats just a disgrace and will definitely not fasten the geilah
5
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:15 PM shimon Says:
Just a few years ago Ramat Beit Shemesh used to be a really relaxed frum anglo community. Today it is a battlefield...
6
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:14 PM Anonymous Says:
Stupid beheimos. Do they think they accomplish anything except to increase hatred of Jews for each other? Are they the same ones who attack women on the buses?
7
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:13 PM NJ Shmuel Says:
An episode like this brings into question what type of people we're dealing with here. I have to wonder how many of them would like to go and spend a few years in Iran or Syria living like the local Jewish population. They may not agree with the state. However, I hope that Hashem will give them the strength to be tolerant of others; lest one day, they might find themselves being burnt as well.
8
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:12 PM Yossi Colman Says:
How do these Neturei Karta people openly desecrate a tribute to the huge amount of people who were murdered in cold blood throughout the Holocaust? They themselves are descendants of people who perished during the Holocaust! Furthermore, even if they were not descendants of the Holocaust (which they are), why do they feel the need to violate this day of tribute on which we mourn the loss of so many great people? They are a disgrace to Judaism and they bring a bad name upon our religion for the rest of us.
9
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:11 PM ticked off Says:
at least they are preparing what will happen to them bekorov. I'm sure they'll enjoy their fate with their terrorist buddies.
10
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:10 PM burn them not the flag Says:
Can someone please explain to me why they live there? And when they're sick do they go to the hospital? Do they call an ambulance? Go by bus? Accept any state run assistance, including Kupat Cholim?
These animals are beneath contempt.
11
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:09 PM Anonymous Says:
Has Israel evicted any of the Neturai Karta from the country? Perhaps if a few of the most militant Neturei Karta in Israel are forced to leave, then the others in Israel might tone down their tactics. If some Neturei Karta are forced to leave Israel and have a hard time finding a country to accept them, then perhaps many Neturai Karta in Israel might start to realize how important the modern state of Israel is for Jews who might have no other place to go.
12
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:07 PM Anonymous Says:
although I think of them as radical, I still believe that somehow they are speaking for all true orthodox Jews!
13
Apr 29, 2009 at 11:58 AM seer Says:
we live in a free country. israel emulates our freedom and i guess allows these neturei karta chevra get wild once in a while . i truly how many of these chevra are taking benefits from the medina in spite of their actions. i remember years ago when some non-neturai karta groups did not take moneys for their yeshivas. iwonder if it still true today.
14
Apr 29, 2009 at 11:57 AM Motti Says:
I, as an orthodox Jew, am horrified by the behaviour of the members of the Naturei Karta sect! To not recognise the State of Isreal is one thing, but why behave worse then GOYIM and disrespecting the memory of those who gave their lives Al Kiddush Hashem, during the Shoah?
To not support, recognise or agree with the Israeli state is one thing, but to commit acts of Chilul Hashem is another.
It would be better if the Naturei Karta members would just leave all the western countries, around the world, and immigrate to Iran or Saudi Arabia. They would be welcome there and feel themselves amongst equals!
As Orthodox Jews, we should even stop metioning Naturei Karta and eradicate the group of all our records. All they long for is puplicity, nothing else.
My final words to them is: "Take of the masks you are wearing and tell people that you all are Muslims in discise!"
15
Apr 29, 2009 at 11:52 AM Ingrate Says:
Israel should send them to live in Ramallah or even better Bait Hanoun there they will not have to deal with the Medina and further they can contribute to the destruction of the Medina with the enemy.
These people are hypocrites! I want to know if when they have an emergency whom they call if not the Israeli police. Do they receive medical benefits, or food stamps from the government. Do they walk on payved ground by the govenment how about their electricity, bus service, etc. If you don't like the country make sure you do not take any services from the "Zionist Regime". How about moving to Iran where you will be free to practice Judaism the way you want, or so you think. people who have a job don't have time to protest, get a job and get a life.
16
Apr 29, 2009 at 11:52 AM Izzy Says:
sick animals. Let Israel kick out these bums send them to Iran.
17
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:45 PM Eli Says:
The gemara explains that Ach'av was more victorious in battle than Dovid HaMelech because Ach'av's army had more achdus even though they worshiped avoda zara. Do the Neturei Karta think that the pro-medina element in Israel are worse than the people who worshiped avoda zara in Ach'av's day? Not only do they not attempt to be united with their fellow Jews, they join up with our enemies!! There is NEVER EVER an excuse for joining the enemies of the Jews against the Jews.
18
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:39 PM kivshan hu aish Says:
“ although I think of them as radical, I still believe that somehow they are speaking for all true orthodox Jews! ”
well if you think they are really speaking for all of us true Orthodox jews what exactly are they saying because i dont see in this article them saying anything???????? oh so u must be meaning to say that actions speaks louder than words i doubt you have the brains to be meaning that because if you can say this idiotic comment you have as much seichel as they have or lack of lol.... and since when did anyone appoint them to be our delegates.... unless you must be part of those "Burned" out dreks
19
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:38 PM Anonymous Says:
“ although I think of them as radical, I still believe that somehow they are speaking for all true orthodox Jews! ”
Speak for yourself, not for others! Why don't you ask your rabbi that question. See what he says.
20
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:35 PM DB Says:
"Followers of the faith believe a sectarian Jewish state is blasphemous and detrimental to the coming of the Messiah."
RIGHT...........The absolute sinah that comes from this group must be the tikun to us blasphemous people who don't share their same beliefs.
21
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:35 PM Anonymous Says:
so why r they even living in israel?
kind of weird huh?!
22
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:32 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Just a few years ago Ramat Beit Shemesh used to be a really relaxed frum anglo community. Today it is a battlefield... ”
Article is talking about Beit Shemesh, NOT Ramat Beit Shemesh. They're 2 different towns, although closeby.
23
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:49 PM A Says:
“ although I think of them as radical, I still believe that somehow they are speaking for all true orthodox Jews! ”
And I think you were probably dropped on your head as a baby because it's a certainty that something is wrong with your higher cognitive functions.
24
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:46 PM KACH 613 Says:
They put on sacloth as a sighn of "avalus" but if you look at the bumbs face they are laghing???
25
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:59 PM yidel Says:
“ I, as an orthodox Jew, am horrified by the behaviour of the members of the Naturei Karta sect! To not recognise the State of Isreal is one thing, but why behave worse then GOYIM and disrespecting the memory of those who gave their lives Al Kiddush Hashem, during the Shoah?
To not support, recognise or agree with the Israeli state is one thing, but to commit acts of Chilul Hashem is another.
It would be better if the Naturei Karta members would just leave all the western countries, around the world, and immigrate to Iran or Saudi Arabia. They would be welcome there and feel themselves amongst equals!
As Orthodox Jews, we should even stop metioning Naturei Karta and eradicate the group of all our records. All they long for is puplicity, nothing else.
My final words to them is: "Take of the masks you are wearing and tell people that you all are Muslims in discise!" ”
i agree that this is a terrible chillul Hashem...but PLEASE the flag has got nothing to do with the Shoah
26
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:57 PM NotNetireiKarte Says:
“ why didnt they all jump in to the fire and sacrifice themselves...... what bothers me most is that they had a nerve to protest on the day of the holocaust remembrance for those that died al kiddush hashem and were murdered and slaughtered and beaten to death that already is starting up with hashem himself and for that u got to ask all 6 million kedoshim and all those that went through those hellish years for mechila thats just a disgrace and will definitely not fasten the geilah ”
You just seem to ignore that hundreds of thousands could of been saved if it wasnt for the State of israel according to the book of Reb Michul Ber Weissmandel...If the holocaust day bothers you that much look back to history what role the Israelis played in (saving)jews..
27
Apr 29, 2009 at 01:05 PM Anonymous Says:
Why do they live in Israel then?? Move to chutz l'aretz!
28
Apr 29, 2009 at 01:05 PM Babishka Says:
If everyone ignored these attention sluts they would shrivel up and go away. They thrive on attention. Don't give them what they want.
29
Apr 29, 2009 at 12:52 PM Aron Says:
Before you lambast them for excersizing their freedom of expression in way that makes you uncomfortable, bear in mind what Voltaire said: "I may not approve of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
30
Apr 29, 2009 at 01:19 PM shimon Says:
“ Article is talking about Beit Shemesh, NOT Ramat Beit Shemesh. They're 2 different towns, although closeby. ”
I know that. But you should know that most of these people live in RBS, not in BS. These are the same ppl how were beating frum women in buses in RBS not so long ago.
31
Apr 29, 2009 at 01:16 PM Anonymous Says:
Mamzerim. Yemach Shemam.
#29 - would you say the same for abbas and ahmedinejad? its the same opinoin and same freedom of expression!
32
Apr 29, 2009 at 01:16 PM I am serious Says:
“ although I think of them as radical, I still believe that somehow they are speaking for all true orthodox Jews! ”
you mean all true mishugaim & sonei yisrael which u seem to want to be a part of!
33
Apr 29, 2009 at 01:42 PM Anonymous Says:
these neturei karta people are jew haters and make the biggest chilul hasham
shame on you shame on you shame on you
34
Apr 29, 2009 at 02:04 PM there a buch of bums Says:
How these behamos different from hamas and the rest of the arabs. 28 lest they don't kill people.
35
Apr 29, 2009 at 02:43 PM Anonymous Says:
“ so why r they even living in israel?
kind of weird huh?! ”
What an idiotic question. They've lived there 100's of years. They/we were there long before the zionists arrived.
36
Apr 29, 2009 at 02:36 PM Anonymous Says:
who looks at them ?
37
Apr 29, 2009 at 02:31 PM gamliel Says:
i think if nobody will look at them they will stop this meshugaasaen?
38
Apr 29, 2009 at 03:27 PM mrsrbs Says:
this is the true meaning of am ha'aretz. they know nothing of their own history and have a distorted view of their religion. they are mindless drones.
39
Apr 29, 2009 at 03:25 PM NATuri LOOSER! Says:
“ well if you think they are really speaking for all of us true Orthodox jews what exactly are they saying because i dont see in this article them saying anything???????? oh so u must be meaning to say that actions speaks louder than words i doubt you have the brains to be meaning that because if you can say this idiotic comment you have as much seichel as they have or lack of lol.... and since when did anyone appoint them to be our delegates.... unless you must be part of those "Burned" out dreks ”
They Probably don't write anything because they don't know how.
these people took ambulance chasing to a whole new level they feed off being in the media there purpose in life is non existent .
they don't understand that the people that are in OUR land dont just want the land they want us DEAD!
40
Apr 29, 2009 at 03:53 PM Anonymous Says:
“ although I think of them as radical, I still believe that somehow they are speaking for all true orthodox Jews! ”
They do not speak for me!
41
Apr 29, 2009 at 04:24 PM Anonymous Says:
“ although I think of them as radical, I still believe that somehow they are speaking for all true orthodox Jews! ”
You are an idiot. Although i said tachnun today, i do not agree with these fools nor the Author of #12. The smiles on their faces in the picture are the same as when the terrorists killed the soldiers(i think there were 3) to death and tossed them out the window in ramallah 9 years ago. Same look on the face when he was showing the inncoent blood on his hands. To burn a flag is not to kill. But the symbolism of burning a flag is the seeking of destruction much like the terrorists.
42
Apr 29, 2009 at 05:19 PM Anonymous Says:
“ at least they are preparing what will happen to them bekorov. I'm sure they'll enjoy their fate with their terrorist buddies. ”
Mr. Antisemite. Hitler would love your comment. Those natire karte with all their stupidity they never curse yidden to be burned they just oppose the israeli government like most of the gedolei yisroel because of the akiras hadas they have done all the years, yet they practice their opposition very extreme by burning their flags etc. But you are a soineh yisroel a jew hater, you would love to watch frum yidden being burend just because their ideaolegy is diffrent then yours. SHAME ON YOU. Even the goiem that some of them hate yidden would never upright write it out like you I wonder if you can still do tshuve for that.
43
Apr 29, 2009 at 05:14 PM Anonymous Says:
“ although I think of them as radical, I still believe that somehow they are speaking for all true orthodox Jews! ”
I davened in concentrations camps as a young boy maybe they speak for your kind of orthodox Jews but not for me or any survivor from the chorbin in Europe. They speak for "sinas chinum" and they represent sinas chinum
44
Apr 29, 2009 at 05:27 PM seen it all Says:
Read this posting about durham 2 from a gentleman who attended:
"This may have left his colleagues who stayed behind without an apparent group leader, which may have made the next episode possible. Dr Charles Small of the Yale Initiative for the Study of Anti-Semitism proposed that, with a short period remaining of Holocaust Remembrance Day, people rise to observe a minute of silence. The victims of mankind’s worst example of genocide should be remembered.
Everyone rose – including the thirty Iranians. Perhaps they were simply blindsided by the request, and followed the lead of everyone else. Perhaps, not having other instructions, they believed that failing to rise was more problematic for them than coming to their feet and joining everyone else in attendance.
So the entire session, including the delegates of the Islamic Republic of Iran, memorialized the kedoshim of the Shoah. Everyone, that is, with the exception of one gentleman who refused to rise, and sat through the brief ceremony. He had a beard, and wore a black hat, and long black clothes. He spoke Yiddish, not Farsi. His hatred of Zionism/ Israel had led him this far – to refuse to acknowledge with the others the gravity of the Holocaust."
45
Apr 29, 2009 at 06:14 PM Anonymous Says:
Boy the Nut-eray karta never cease to amaze me. They live in Israel and yet they despise it. The wear sackcloth and yet they are happy. They dress and supposedly act like Orthodox Jews, yet they bring a bad name to our faith. Many ant-Semites and ignoramuses out there actually believe that the NK are represent "Real Jews". Last time I checked, those that befriend our enemies (eg. Amendawackjob of Iran, Hamas & Co., and every Holocaust denier) are our enemies. They lack Chesed and hate their brethren. What happened to those that worshiped the golden calf - died by they sword. They worship a golden calf of hate lack of ahavas chesed and ahavas yisroel.
46
Apr 29, 2009 at 06:04 PM Anonymous Says:
“ although I think of them as radical, I still believe that somehow they are speaking for all true orthodox Jews! ”
Orthodox Jews? They are not speaking for me or for any religious zionist nor do I believe they speak for any thinking chareidi Jew
47
Apr 29, 2009 at 05:54 PM Anonymous Says:
“ these neturei karta people are jew haters and make the biggest chilul hasham
shame on you shame on you shame on you ”
Ch"v not jew haters they hate this zionist state that that bears the fault of Shmoding millions of jews all over the years of their exsistance ans as well of disturbing the rescue of about a million hungarian jews so all of you nasty commenters shut up!!! First condemn the zionists on what they did and then post your curses opon those who take advantage of freedom of assembly / freedom of speech like people all over the westren countries and even a lot of leftists parties in israel.
48
Apr 29, 2009 at 05:41 PM Anonymous Says:
kickem out of the land they hate PERIOD!!!!
49
Apr 29, 2009 at 07:07 PM Anonymous Says:
I have one question. What does remembering those who perished in the Holocaust have to do with the State of Israel. I am not a fan of the State of Israel I love Kedushas E"Y and I remember those who perished.
50
Apr 29, 2009 at 07:03 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I know that. But you should know that most of these people live in RBS, not in BS. These are the same ppl how were beating frum women in buses in RBS not so long ago. ”
The individuals protesting are generally residents of RBS B. The large Anglo community is in RBS A, and, to a lesser extent, in some parts of old Beit Shemesh. RBS B is in between old BS and RBS A, and all three are part of the Beit Shemesh municipality.
an RBS A resident
51
Apr 29, 2009 at 07:51 PM Anonymous Says:
“ although I think of them as radical, I still believe that somehow they are speaking for all true orthodox Jews! ”
Don't flatter yourself. You don't think.
52
Apr 29, 2009 at 07:49 PM za003 Says:
if they hate the state of isreal why are they living there and not only that they would be dirt poor if it wasn't for the isreali government
53
Apr 29, 2009 at 07:47 PM Anonymous Says:
If we can't get them to stop burning the flags can we at least get them to dip the flags in gasoline and wrap them tightly around their heads before lighting them?
54
Apr 29, 2009 at 07:36 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I have one question. What does remembering those who perished in the Holocaust have to do with the State of Israel. I am not a fan of the State of Israel I love Kedushas E"Y and I remember those who perished. ”
Good question!!! I just wonder why it was'nt placed untill # 49???
55
Apr 29, 2009 at 07:35 PM Says:
“ What an idiotic question. They've lived there 100's of years. They/we were there long before the zionists arrived. ”
Better look up the definition of 'zionist'. Last time I looked, it meant 'lover of the land of Israel'. Which it what most of the frum Jews in the world are. Politics aside, what does 'key metzion tetze Torah" mean?
56
Apr 29, 2009 at 07:31 PM Litvak Says:
“ Before you lambast them for excersizing their freedom of expression in way that makes you uncomfortable, bear in mind what Voltaire said: "I may not approve of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it." ”
Most frum Yidden will never defend a Jew's right to openly defame Klal Yisroel living in Israel.
Was Voltare Jewish?
57
Apr 29, 2009 at 07:27 PM not # 12 responding Says:
“ You are an idiot. Although i said tachnun today, i do not agree with these fools nor the Author of #12. The smiles on their faces in the picture are the same as when the terrorists killed the soldiers(i think there were 3) to death and tossed them out the window in ramallah 9 years ago. Same look on the face when he was showing the inncoent blood on his hands. To burn a flag is not to kill. But the symbolism of burning a flag is the seeking of destruction much like the terrorists. ”
Seems you have'nt use your mind a long long time. What kind of Gzeira Shova, the terrorists smiled when they killed 6 people with blood on their hands and the Natire Karta smile when they burn a silly flag so you Shoiteh compare them or their deeds. Please next time when you post a comment think just a tiny drop
58
Apr 29, 2009 at 08:54 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Mr. Antisemite. Hitler would love your comment. Those natire karte with all their stupidity they never curse yidden to be burned they just oppose the israeli government like most of the gedolei yisroel because of the akiras hadas they have done all the years, yet they practice their opposition very extreme by burning their flags etc. But you are a soineh yisroel a jew hater, you would love to watch frum yidden being burend just because their ideaolegy is diffrent then yours. SHAME ON YOU. Even the goiem that some of them hate yidden would never upright write it out like you I wonder if you can still do tshuve for that. ”
you are an idiot they tried to kill policemen many times
59
Apr 29, 2009 at 09:00 PM Shprintzy Says:
Why are so many of us (myself unfortunately included) bothering to waste our time commenting on this story?! Agreed, they're a bunch of idiots who are seeking attention. If they were ignored, eventually they'd go away. Just like a bully. Obviously what they say is stupid. You can be a fan of the medina or not but it's definitely a better option than the alternative -- being under arab rule. As an older Russian lady said to me today, if not for the state of Israel giving her a place to go, instead of her children covering their hair and her grandchildren learning in yeshiva they would probably be married to goyim.
60
Apr 29, 2009 at 10:05 PM Anonymous Says:
“ you are an idiot they tried to kill policemen many times ”
Liar!!! A policeman was never killed by them some frum yidden were killed already by the police. Please research your facts
61
Apr 29, 2009 at 09:20 PM canadian Says:
Remember freedom of expression last time i checked Israel was a democratic country. They are lawfully entitled to their opinion. (I'm not sure what the law is on burning the country's flag.) We have in Canada a federal party that's trying to break up the country.
62
Apr 29, 2009 at 10:32 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Better look up the definition of 'zionist'. Last time I looked, it meant 'lover of the land of Israel'. Which it what most of the frum Jews in the world are. Politics aside, what does 'key metzion tetze Torah" mean? ”
Sir is the definition of comunism dictatership absolutly no but somehow that's what it is basically all about. Same thing about zionism
63
Apr 29, 2009 at 10:28 PM Anonymous Says:
animals....
64
Apr 30, 2009 at 06:03 AM yoelish Says:
Chase them out of the state. No other state would put up with this.
Ask these clowns all the benifits they get from the "zoinists" bus service, subsidized food etc. When it come to taking money all of a sudden the zionist is not so bad. They are a bunch of frauds, and a disgrace to klal yisroel.
65
Apr 30, 2009 at 02:36 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Article is talking about Beit Shemesh, NOT Ramat Beit Shemesh. They're 2 different towns, although closeby. ”
they are not. They are one municipality. There are multiple sections to Beit shemesh and RBS bet (where this happened) and RBS aleph (Where I live) are sections there in. The NK community is in RBS bet.
66
Apr 30, 2009 at 01:48 AM Rachael Says:
“ Just a few years ago Ramat Beit Shemesh used to be a really relaxed frum anglo community. Today it is a battlefield... ”
Ramat Beit Shemesh still is a wonderful community...this incident happened in BEIT SHEMESH, which is next to it, but a different town entirely. In Beit Shemesh there is a noticable divide between dat'iim and hilonim, and the dat'iim have been known to be violent to people who are not tznius, etc, even in their own community...big chilul Hashem!
67
Apr 30, 2009 at 12:48 AM Miss Williamsburg Says:
For those who ask why they live in Israel, the answer is that many of them (their parents) lived in Israel before 1948.
Whatever the case, the things that they do is just unbelievable. They are a bunch of misguided people and I really really feel bad for them. I pray that Hashem guide them to the right path.
#49, I agree with you.
68
Apr 30, 2009 at 08:53 AM Allan Says:
“ Has Israel evicted any of the Neturai Karta from the country? Perhaps if a few of the most militant Neturei Karta in Israel are forced to leave, then the others in Israel might tone down their tactics. If some Neturei Karta are forced to leave Israel and have a hard time finding a country to accept them, then perhaps many Neturai Karta in Israel might start to realize how important the modern state of Israel is for Jews who might have no other place to go. ”
Very well said!!!.......Maybe the time has come to give them the boot and fend for themselves in an otherwise cruel world of Jew haters. What a shame that their children will have to suffer for the insanity of the parents.
69
Apr 30, 2009 at 08:52 AM mayer Says:
“ at least they are preparing what will happen to them bekorov. I'm sure they'll enjoy their fate with their terrorist buddies. ”
change your name to antisemite
70
Apr 30, 2009 at 08:17 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Better look up the definition of 'zionist'. Last time I looked, it meant 'lover of the land of Israel'. Which it what most of the frum Jews in the world are. Politics aside, what does 'key metzion tetze Torah" mean? ”
"Zionism" was coined as a term for Jewish nationalism by Austrian Jewish publisher Nathan Birnbaum, founder of the first nationalist Jewish students' movement Kadimah, in his journal Selbstemanzipation (Self Emancipation) in 1890.
Zionism does not mean "lover of the land of Israel." Zionism means support for the state of Israel. The state of Israel's borders do not conform to the Holy Land's borders.
Zionism has been around for a little over 100 years. Judaism has been around for thousands of years. Jews have been praying for G-d for almost 2,000 years, for G-d to end their exile when He decides that the time is right. Until the 20th century CE, no one ever tried to establish a state, on their own.
71
Apr 30, 2009 at 09:09 AM all rights reserved Says:
“ If we can't get them to stop burning the flags can we at least get them to dip the flags in gasoline and wrap them tightly around their heads before lighting them? ”
'Mein Kamf' all rights reserved!!! Please do not quote pieces of this book without direct Nazi permition
72
Apr 30, 2009 at 10:55 AM Anonymous Says:
they r right the state of israel is a tragedy that was created 2 make peapole non religious and is holding back mashiach!
73
Apr 30, 2009 at 11:07 AM Litvak Says:
“ "Zionism" was coined as a term for Jewish nationalism by Austrian Jewish publisher Nathan Birnbaum, founder of the first nationalist Jewish students' movement Kadimah, in his journal Selbstemanzipation (Self Emancipation) in 1890.
Zionism does not mean "lover of the land of Israel." Zionism means support for the state of Israel. The state of Israel's borders do not conform to the Holy Land's borders.
Zionism has been around for a little over 100 years. Judaism has been around for thousands of years. Jews have been praying for G-d for almost 2,000 years, for G-d to end their exile when He decides that the time is right. Until the 20th century CE, no one ever tried to establish a state, on their own. ”
Go check wikkopedia and the various sources they cite. It means to love Eretz Yisroel. That is the classical meaning amoung Jews since Har Sinai.
There is a huge difference between supporting the state, supporting the government and supporting the people. The land has kedusha, but the kedusha is not apparent unless there are people there. I support the people. They are all Jews.
I support the concept of a state. The idea of a Jewish govenment to impart Jewish values is fantastic. There were and are horrible mistakes that are being made by the government and it is our obligation to tell the state that we want a frum Jewish state, not another country that Jews happen to live in. They can go to Uganda, l'havdil.
Supporting the elected government is another matter. Did you support Lupianski, the frum mayor of Yerushalayim? What about Olmert, the prior mayor? Same job, different people. I can be a religous Zionist and be against the elected officials and the stupid decisions that they make.
74
Apr 30, 2009 at 03:01 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Go check wikkopedia and the various sources they cite. It means to love Eretz Yisroel. That is the classical meaning amoung Jews since Har Sinai.
There is a huge difference between supporting the state, supporting the government and supporting the people. The land has kedusha, but the kedusha is not apparent unless there are people there. I support the people. They are all Jews.
I support the concept of a state. The idea of a Jewish govenment to impart Jewish values is fantastic. There were and are horrible mistakes that are being made by the government and it is our obligation to tell the state that we want a frum Jewish state, not another country that Jews happen to live in. They can go to Uganda, l'havdil.
Supporting the elected government is another matter. Did you support Lupianski, the frum mayor of Yerushalayim? What about Olmert, the prior mayor? Same job, different people. I can be a religous Zionist and be against the elected officials and the stupid decisions that they make.
”
So I can be a chareidi zionist who hates the govenment but still love the eople and the land?
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Apr 30, 2009 at 05:36 PM Toras Moshe Emess Says:
In his latter years, Rav Shach zt"l was once asked to write an editorial for yated (the paper he established) condemning Neturei Karta. He replied (forgive me if I paraphrase, I do not have the book in front of me): "Why would I condemn them?? We AGREE with them!! Our only difference is that they oppose Zionism from the outside, we oppose it from the inside."
Would any person here be so chutzpadik to call Rav Shach a goy??? a self hating Jew??? to have demanded he be kicked out of Israel???
You accuse them of defaming the memory of the kedoshim of the Holocaust but in their view (which was ALSO the view of the Satmar Rebbe zt"l AND Rav Elchonon Wasserman HY"D) that the Holocaust was CAUSED by (a punishment for) Zionism and that Zionist actions exacerbated the suffering. To them, burning the symbol (the flag) of Zionism therefore pays the HIGHEST respect to the Kedoshim.
You may reasonably argue that some of their actions are disgraceful (and I might even agree with you, especially on their attending the Holocaust denial conference which was just plain STUPID) but you cannot demonstrate even ONE JEW that has ever suffered at any time, at any place as a result of their behavior. You cannot say the same for zionists.
You ask why they stay if they hate Israel so much. The truth is, Neturei Karta was formed in the 1930s by the descendants of Jews that came to Eretz Yisroel more than 50 years BEFORE Zionism was even thought of. In other words, they were there first!!! They don't hate Eretz Yisroel... they LOVE it. What they hate is the movement and state that they believe desecrates the land, tears Yidden away from Toras Emes and has caused, both directly and indirectly, the death and suffering of millions fo Jews. They don't hate Jews... they love Jews SO MUCH that they are willing to be hated (by many of you) for it.
And yet, you accuse THEM of sinas chinam but where is YOUR ahavas Yisroel for them??? You have the right to disagree with them, but PLEASE remember, their view of Zionism is NO DIFFERENT from that of Reb Yoilish, Rav Schach and Rav Wasserman!!!
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Apr 30, 2009 at 06:14 PM Anonymous Says:
“ What an idiotic question. They've lived there 100's of years. They/we were there long before the zionists arrived. ”
yOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
My mishpochah (on one side) is old, old yerushalmi and they have NOTHING to do with these low lifes.
My mishpochah doesn't c"v vote (they might say c"v, not me) and don't take anything from the medinah but never in a million years would they go out and lock for ways to provoke hatred between yiddin and to be mechalel shaim shomayim berabim.
Of course that might only be because they are actually busy learninig all day and don't have time for avairos, not like these clowns.)
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Apr 30, 2009 at 06:14 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Go check wikkopedia and the various sources they cite. It means to love Eretz Yisroel. That is the classical meaning amoung Jews since Har Sinai.
There is a huge difference between supporting the state, supporting the government and supporting the people. The land has kedusha, but the kedusha is not apparent unless there are people there. I support the people. They are all Jews.
I support the concept of a state. The idea of a Jewish govenment to impart Jewish values is fantastic. There were and are horrible mistakes that are being made by the government and it is our obligation to tell the state that we want a frum Jewish state, not another country that Jews happen to live in. They can go to Uganda, l'havdil.
Supporting the elected government is another matter. Did you support Lupianski, the frum mayor of Yerushalayim? What about Olmert, the prior mayor? Same job, different people. I can be a religous Zionist and be against the elected officials and the stupid decisions that they make.
”
I actually got the definition of Zionism from Wikipedia. It also says there, "Since the creation of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel."
Where on Wikipedia does it say that Zionism means to love Eretz Yisroel?
The term "Zionism" has only been around since the late 19th century. Where in the Torah, which has been "among Jews since Har Sinai," does it mention the word "Zionism" or that it means to love Eretz Yisroel?
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Jul 27, 2010 at 11:48 AM Yousef Says:
Thanks to Israel's democracy and freedom these guys do these shameful activities. I think they are not real Jews.Why couldn't they understand they live in Israel and because of existence of Israel they have the opportunity to do what ever they want. If they were Jews of other countries like Iran they couldn't ever express themselves freely. We as the Jews of Iran love Israel but we are in minority and we can't say it freely.