“ WOW!

This will certainly be controversial. Chassidim in general (Yes, I know this is not universal) agree that a man should marry by 19, and certainly no later than 20, but we have never asked someone to move.

It is true that if a man allows 20 years to pass without being married, his chances of marrying, at least marrying decently, drop precipitously. But that is due to our cultural bias. In groups where it is common to wait, they have no problems waiting.

However, in the populations where people actually "Date" .... then I can see what the Rov here is saying. If one "Dates" one after the other, without finding his mate, he will never tend to find her. Why? First of all, he is being too picky. Second of all, eventually he will compare each one to ones he turned down, and remembering good points of the ones of the past, which he turned down, and each successive girl will seem to possess fewer of these midos. The ones of the past will blend together in the seeker's mind, and form a standard which no woman can beat.

So, I fully agree it is important to not tarry, and to marry quickly. "Marry, don't tarry."

But, I am not comfortable with re-instituting the concept of banishing those who do not.
Due to the crazy shidduch situations today, sometimes something "happens" in a person's family, or to a person, which temporarily makes it very hard to get a shidduch. A few years later, he/she finds a shidduch, usually with someone else who had such a barrier.

But, it is not my place to tell the Rov what to say or do. I am only voicing my thoughts, which to sum it up are: Encourage early marriage, but do not banish. ”

“ I don't think 19 is the right age. I just know of the bochurim here in america they are still babies they first have to grow up and be mature when you get married, you have to know what you want in life, what kind of wife you want ”

“ WOW!

This will certainly be controversial. Chassidim in general (Yes, I know this is not universal) agree that a man should marry by 19, and certainly no later than 20, but we have never asked someone to move.

It is true that if a man allows 20 years to pass without being married, his chances of marrying, at least marrying decently, drop precipitously. But that is due to our cultural bias. In groups where it is common to wait, they have no problems waiting.

However, in the populations where people actually "Date" .... then I can see what the Rov here is saying. If one "Dates" one after the other, without finding his mate, he will never tend to find her. Why? First of all, he is being too picky. Second of all, eventually he will compare each one to ones he turned down, and remembering good points of the ones of the past, which he turned down, and each successive girl will seem to possess fewer of these midos. The ones of the past will blend together in the seeker's mind, and form a standard which no woman can beat.

So, I fully agree it is important to not tarry, and to marry quickly. "Marry, don't tarry."

But, I am not comfortable with re-instituting the concept of banishing those who do not.
Due to the crazy shidduch situations today, sometimes something "happens" in a person's family, or to a person, which temporarily makes it very hard to get a shidduch. A few years later, he/she finds a shidduch, usually with someone else who had such a barrier.

But, it is not my place to tell the Rov what to say or do. I am only voicing my thoughts, which to sum it up are: Encourage early marriage, but do not banish. ”

“ He forgets that according to the Halacha a person has to have established a parnasa with which he can support his family before getting married.
If he insists on enforcing one detail he should also enforce this one! ”

“ I don't think 19 is the right age. I just know of the bochurim here in america they are still babies they first have to grow up and be mature when you get married, you have to know what you want in life, what kind of wife you want ”

“ Actually, people mature based in their curcumstances. For example, in times of sorrow R"L, people grow up very quickly.
The problem is that the American school system stunts the growth. These days, kids are still in Elementary school until close to 15, then in High School untill close to 19. How do you expect them to mature?
If we would shave off one year in elementary (or start one year earlier as it used to be), theb kids will mature a year earlier.
And if we do it to High School too, then we would have solved the Shiduch crisis. It used to be the accepted that a 16 year old was in "Bais Medrash" (They used to finish 12th grade english while in Beis Medrash). In europe they were even younger. I believe R' Elchonon Wasserman's Z"L Yeshiva was for High School age Bochurim, and believe me, they wer mature! ”

“ He forgets that according to the Halacha a person has to have established a parnasa with which he can support his family before getting married.
If he insists on enforcing one detail he should also enforce this one! ”

“ Years ago, I don't think young people dated. Even in non-Chasidish circles parents would choose their children's mates and the children would listen to their parents and marry each other. The parents would initially support the children. Our lifestyles have evolved so much from those simpler times, that our youngsters have become to independent and don't listen to their parents anymore. They think they know better than their parents. I think the old way was better. Marry them off young and you don't have a "shidduch Crisis" ”

“ How many married men in Yerushalayim keep the mitzvah of supporting a wife and family?? I thought there there might be other reasons given (I think the whole ban is nonsense) but support a family! The later the boys get married there are fewer families living in poverty. ”

“ How can one know what kind of wife he wants without maybe having a few (smile)...
or at least spending a lot of time "finding out" ... and in the process getting jaded.

When a person goes to buy his first car, he looks them over, finds the one he wants, and LOVES IT. There is a kind of "magical" feeling about this excitement. He falls in love with his new car, and treasures it until it won't go any further, maybe after 250,000 miles. The car may be a Huyndai or some other cheapo "non special" car. But to him it is special.

But, picture the 18-year-old man who wants to "make sure he buys the right car"... the man first leased each model car car for 6 months or a year. Learned the good points and deficits of each make and model. He is REALLY LEARNING about cars.

He is now ready to actually make a commitment and BUY his first car.
He chooses the "perfect car" for him.
But, now he is 36, has been struggling with parnassah and other issues for the past 18 years. He makes a "LOGICAL" decision and buys his "perfect" car. It may be perfect for him "logically" .... but there is no magic.
The magic got all used up in all those leases.

Buy your first car at 18. Even if it is a Hyundai with a dent, that the dealer sold to you for $2,000 less because of this dent. Buy it. Love it. Enjoy the magic.
Treasure that Hyundai. ”

“ I don't think 19 is the right age. I just know of the bochurim here in america they are still babies they first have to grow up and be mature when you get married, you have to know what you want in life, what kind of wife you want ”

“ dont compare humans to car. as a woman, I feel offended about that. I am not some object you can just look at and decide if im pretty enough or good enough to marry. stop treating women like they are objects, we will not be bought. we will decide if someone is worthy of marrying us or not. ”

“ I support the death penalty for Men Women & Children age 20+ and not married period. Kill'em so they don't interfere with the married peoples lifes. ”

“ I disagree with you. If you keep "shopping around" to decide "what kind of wife you want" you will never be satisfied.

Also, the "more you know" the harder it is, not easier.

The "still babies" IS the perfect time. ”

“ I support the death penalty for Men Women & Children age 20+ and not married period. Kill'em so they don't interfere with the married peoples lifes. ”

“ How can one know what kind of wife he wants without maybe having a few (smile)...
or at least spending a lot of time "finding out" ... and in the process getting jaded.

When a person goes to buy his first car, he looks them over, finds the one he wants, and LOVES IT. There is a kind of "magical" feeling about this excitement. He falls in love with his new car, and treasures it until it won't go any further, maybe after 250,000 miles. The car may be a Huyndai or some other cheapo "non special" car. But to him it is special.

But, picture the 18-year-old man who wants to "make sure he buys the right car"... the man first leased each model car car for 6 months or a year. Learned the good points and deficits of each make and model. He is REALLY LEARNING about cars.

He is now ready to actually make a commitment and BUY his first car.
He chooses the "perfect car" for him.
But, now he is 36, has been struggling with parnassah and other issues for the past 18 years. He makes a "LOGICAL" decision and buys his "perfect" car. It may be perfect for him "logically" .... but there is no magic.
The magic got all used up in all those leases.

Buy your first car at 18. Even if it is a Hyundai with a dent, that the dealer sold to you for $2,000 less because of this dent. Buy it. Love it. Enjoy the magic.
Treasure that Hyundai. ”

“ ...And all woman must wear burkhas as well...this is pure old school fanaticisim ”

“ Satmar Man -- you are a smart man saying smart things and it is absolutely your place to call out a Rov when he says something stupid -- this is the 21st Century, not the 16th, and our leaders must be respectful and accountable to the Kehillahs they seek to lead. ”

“ I don't think 19 is the right age. I just know of the bochurim here in america they are still babies they first have to grow up and be mature when you get married, you have to know what you want in life, what kind of wife you want ”

“ He forgets that according to the Halacha a person has to have established a parnasa with which he can support his family before getting married.
If he insists on enforcing one detail he should also enforce this one! ”

“ Thank you, #10, for your kind words, but it really is not my place. After I hit "Post Comment" I worried that I was not respectful enough.

Yes, leaders should be respectful and accountable to the Kehillahs, but... not at the risk of changing their views.
One of the most important things which makes a godol a Rov worthy of respect, is that he is not only very learned and wise, but not afraid to tell us that we need to do, even when he knows we will not like it.

It is not disrespectful to the kehilla to give them mussar, or a psak they don't like.

Imagine Har Sinai.... "Listen up, Hashem, you can't tell us "no XXXXXing!" ... we like doing that, and you have to have respect for us. Nope. It does not work.
Heck, I bet there are a bunch of Halochos you wish Hashem would have held different views on.... LOL But, it is His world, not mine or yours.

I want gedolim, chachamim, rabbonim, roshay yeshivos, whatever we call them, to be outspoken, and tell us when we are doing wrong. We are paying their salaries. That is in their job description. I want them to earn their pay. LOL

Yes, I voiced my thoughts. Had I been lucky enough, or blessed enough, to have been sitting with him before he made this announcement, and he had invited me to voice my thoughts, I would have told him the above.
But once he made his decision, the only place I would have voiced my differing opinions would have been in private. Never in public, as that would have been disrespectful.

So, I AM concerned that I was not respectful enough of this Rov.
It is truly "not my place" to tell anyone else what to do, especially on a public blog like this.

So, I may differ from the Rov, but I need to show him kovod and maybe even owe him an apology.

Could you imagine a world where every one of klall Yisroel is respectful to each other? WOW! Can't hurt? Rabbi Yaakov Yosef, please me moichel me for comment #5 if it was poigem in your kovod. ”

“ How about all rabbis over 40 leave Jerusalem and get jobs? Would he like that decree? ”

“ You believe the Rov "forgets" ..... ???? I doubt it. I am sure he thought this out with full consideration for all issues. You have a right to not agree, but don't insult him by assuming you "know" something that he does not, or that he "forgot". ”

“ It is not really a new "Takana"

It is actually a halacha which is more chomur in Eretz Yisroel.
We have been maikil on it for years.
But, now that we have recovered from the Holocaust, and have gotten things together again, he is saying it is time to follow the halacha again, and not rely on the heterim used during the past crises. ”

“ So is this rabbi a malach now? Do you believe in the satmar rabbi the same way? I'm sure you don't everyone may believe or disbelieve in any rabbi. Vyomeni bhsham ibmosha ovdoi ”

“ I support the death penalty for Men Women & Children age 20+ and not married period. Kill'em so they don't interfere with the married peoples lifes. ”

“ Usaly if the boy is 19 and did not grow up there is slim chances he will ever grow up. ”

“ Satmar Man, how dare you compare women to cars?! The fact that you would do so to illustrate your (incorrect) points shows how little respect you have for women. Women are not belongings that you buy. A marriage is about a relationship. In order for a marriage to be right it the people have to meet each other at the right time and they have to "click".

Several people here have mentioned that in the olden days people just married the first person their parents stuck in front of them. And they think that was somehow better! How many people lived with a person whose personality clashed with theirs? How many were not attracted to their spouse from the very beginning? How many thought of their marriages as just blah instead of being excited to get married and had truly happy marriages? Have you thought about that?!

Dating exists so that people can get to know each other and find the person that is right for them. Yes some people are too picky and never satisfied. But I don't believe that the majority are like that. And rushing young people to get married just makes people even more reluctant to settle down. I think that Satmar Man is in a mediocre marriage and wants more people to end up just like him because misery loves company.

I married my husband at age 25 and I'm glad I waited. There was a guy my parents were pressuring me to marry when I was 21 but I didn't like the way he spoke to me. He was attractive and wealthy but I knew it wouldn't work. So I waited a few years for the right man. I used my own judgment and things turned out well. Marriage is the most important decision a person will ever make. It should not be rushed. ”

“ Years ago, I don't think young people dated. Even in non-Chasidish circles parents would choose their children's mates and the children would listen to their parents and marry each other. The parents would initially support the children. Our lifestyles have evolved so much from those simpler times, that our youngsters have become to independent and don't listen to their parents anymore. They think they know better than their parents. I think the old way was better. Marry them off young and you don't have a "shidduch Crisis" ”

“ Usaly if the boy is 19 and did not grow up there is slim chances he will ever grow up. ”

“ Years ago, I don't think young people dated. Even in non-Chasidish circles parents would choose their children's mates and the children would listen to their parents and marry each other. The parents would initially support the children. Our lifestyles have evolved so much from those simpler times, that our youngsters have become to independent and don't listen to their parents anymore. They think they know better than their parents. I think the old way was better. Marry them off young and you don't have a "shidduch Crisis" ”

“ Gitty, Shyichye,

Forgive me if I offended you. I in no way intended to compare women to cars. I was only talking about the "magic" in a new fresh YOUNG person who meets his or HER bashert.

I meant to say that the "shopping around" process, whether by boys or girls, can eventually turn into a jaded thing, where eventually nobody is "special" anymore, and when both parties "settle" for who is available at that time, because they realize the pages are falling off the calendar.

I used the car thing only as a moshol. If a girl were to read it, the car was a boy. It was not comparing girls to cars.

Every shidduch is very important and very special.

I do not mean that one should not put maximum effort into finding the right one.
However, I do believe that many of those who keep looking for YEARS, lose track of things. No difference if you are a man or a woman. Both can and do make the the same mistakes. By being "overly picky" we pass up on many a Hyundai which with our nurturing, caring, treasuring and love we can discover is a combination Rolls Royce/Maserati in disguise.

I believe, from what acquaintances have told me, and my rebbetzin's acquaitances have told her, that many of those who are turned down that first year, would have been happily, if not eagerly, selected, when viewed in retrospect a few years later.

Many men and women have told me and my wife, that they are now looking for a shidduch, and wish they could have another chance with those first few.

Now, I am not for dating anyway. I really believe that messes things up even more. But, even just the b'show process, if a boy or girl keeps turning down whom they are shown, they "MAY" have gross disappointments later on.

But, I in no way "objectify" women.
I wrote as a man because I happen to be one. But what I wrote was intended for either gender. Many girls have admitted they maybe should have chosen from the choices of that first year. Many girls have admitted that by the time they actually got engaged, they were "tired" of the whole situation.
The very fact that they call it a "shidduch crisis" confirms my point.
What "Magic" can one find after enduring a "crisis"?

Note, I was one saying I would not throw someone out for not being married by 20. ”

“ You're 100 percent right and in Satmar, bobov, viznitz, pupa, skverr, etc. they don't start dating at 14-15, they don't watch TV and aren't exposed to thousands of people of the other sex, they aren't programmed by goyishe society's version of what is good looking and bad looking and there is no shidduch crisis. Compared to modern orthodoxy where they begin to date (for absolutely no reason except that the way goyim ferein zich) and after 30 years of watching TV and seeing thousands of super models they await the "frum" super model that doesn't exist. The shidduch crisis is the biggest testimony to the failure of modern orthodoxy. Be "embracing the secular world", i.e., goyishe culture but with a nicer sounding name, they have rejected Jewish values. Don't even bother trying to defend the indefensible. ”

“ Instead of making an idiotic statement about banishing single bachurim from Jerusalem, why not bring single girls TO Jerusalem and help those single bachurim get married?

And where exactly are these bachurim supposed to banished to?

What a mockery. Sounds like the son of someone famous trying to make a name for himself so he can live up to familial expectations at the expense of common sense and sensitivity to those who haven't yet found their zivug. ”

“ You're 100 percent right and in Satmar, bobov, viznitz, pupa, skverr, etc. they don't start dating at 14-15, they don't watch TV and aren't exposed to thousands of people of the other sex, they aren't programmed by goyishe society's version of what is good looking and bad looking and there is no shidduch crisis. Compared to modern orthodoxy where they begin to date (for absolutely no reason except that the way goyim ferein zich) and after 30 years of watching TV and seeing thousands of super models they await the "frum" super model that doesn't exist. The shidduch crisis is the biggest testimony to the failure of modern orthodoxy. Be "embracing the secular world", i.e., goyishe culture but with a nicer sounding name, they have rejected Jewish values. Don't even bother trying to defend the indefensible. ”

“ First of all, I think burkas are kool. Way kool. I would let my wife wear them, if she liked.

But, I do take exception to your words, "pure old school fanaticism"
Following halacha is not being fanatic.

While I may not agree with the extent of banishment from Yerushalayim, if that is the halacha it is not fanaticism.
The fact that we may have gotten careless on a certain matter, does not make one who is not careless "fanatic."

It is WE who should be examining our carelessness, not bashing the ones doing it right.
We now have more frum people than ever in moden history. But.... more "heter seeking" than ever before also.

What was the Conservative movement other than a bunch of misguided people who did not want to throw it all away as the Reforms did, but wanted to be frum, but only banish the mechitza. The original Conservative shuls and congregations were 100% Shomer Shabbos, Kosher, and practiced taharas hamishpacha!!!

They only wanted to toss away one thing: The Mechitza

Then, they called all of us who protested that we need to keep the Mechitza "Fanatics"
We were "Fanatics" because we did not want to throw away that one rule they wanted to throw away.

Now look at the Conservative people. Most are not Shomer Shabbos, do not keep 100% kosher, and many have not even heard of taharas hamishpacha.

I had a Conservative "Rabbi" ... a really nice person... ask me recently where he could find a mikvah. He wanted to do his first conversion, and needed a mikvah.

I asked him, "How many Torahs do you have in your ark?"
He responded, "Nine"
I asked him, "Do you know the halacha is that a kehilla MUST have a mikva, and if there is no money to build a mikva, they are even required to sell their ONLY Torah, to get the money to build one?"

He stared at me.... and said, "I remember something about that. Is that really the halacha?"
I said, "Yes, it is. Taharas HaMishpacha is an absolute. It is not optional. How could you be a rabbi of a large congregation and not even know where the mikvos are?"
I also then explained that he would have a hard time anyway, as most mikvaos do not allow them to be used for non-orthodox conversions, but that is an other story.

But.... all this, the loss of Shabbos, Kashrus, Taharas HaMishpacha happened after they called us "Fanatics" for wanting to keep our mechitzas.

Every halacha is important. Not only the ones we like. You are not a fanatic for doing something right which I am messing up on. It is I who is wrong. ”

“ Sorry to tell you that the older boys are just as picky. If the girl isn't skinny, pretty or young they are NOT interested. (A lot of them could stand to lose a few pounds themselves. And the girl will hopefully become pregnant soo).

Now true, the girl will more often turn down the second date, etc.. but the boy is usually harder to pin down for a first date, you see. They have lists. And lists. They forget they are not 20 themselves. Some don't even try to make a good impression. They are only out to have a good time or a meal companion.

#55- If you are constantly being turned down and not getting dates, it's possible enough people don't know you. Call shadchonim, there are many organizations today that help. If that is not the problem, ask yourself WHY you are being turned down. Talk to someone or see a relationship coach. They are fabulous! Hatzlacha rabah. ”

“ Sorry to tell you that the older boys are just as picky. If the girl isn't skinny, pretty or young they are NOT interested. (A lot of them could stand to lose a few pounds themselves. And the girl will hopefully become pregnant soo).

Now true, the girl will more often turn down the second date, etc.. but the boy is usually harder to pin down for a first date, you see. They have lists. And lists. They forget they are not 20 themselves. Some don't even try to make a good impression. They are only out to have a good time or a meal companion.

#55- If you are constantly being turned down and not getting dates, it's possible enough people don't know you. Call shadchonim, there are many organizations today that help. If that is not the problem, ask yourself WHY you are being turned down. Talk to someone or see a relationship coach. They are fabulous! Hatzlacha rabah. ”

“ He forgets that according to the Halacha a person has to have established a parnasa with which he can support his family before getting married.
If he insists on enforcing one detail he should also enforce this one! ”

“ I got married at the young age of 19. I thought I was ready. Since then, things have soured. Maybe I should've dated more than two girls before deciding on this one. Four years later, I am stuck in a marriage with a woman who doesn't get me and is also an ugly troll. ”

“ He forgets that according to the Halacha a person has to have established a parnasa with which he can support his family before getting married.
If he insists on enforcing one detail he should also enforce this one! ”

“ #82, I am a male who is nearing 50 who has never been married. A few years ago I basically gave up on the idea of marriage since I couldn't find a woman of childbearing age who was interested in me. I am now starting to rethink this, and am starting to consider the idea of marriage without children so that I could consider women closer to my age. With children out of the picture, time is basically on my side rather than against me. One of my friends who is 50 and single without children is so eager to have children and is starting to panic. I guess women in their mid 30s marrying a 50 year old man is much less common now than it has been in the past. ”

“ #82, I am a male who is nearing 50 who has never been married. A few years ago I basically gave up on the idea of marriage since I couldn't find a woman of childbearing age who was interested in me. I am now starting to rethink this, and am starting to consider the idea of marriage without children so that I could consider women closer to my age. With children out of the picture, time is basically on my side rather than against me. One of my friends who is 50 and single without children is so eager to have children and is starting to panic. I guess women in their mid 30s marrying a 50 year old man is much less common now than it has been in the past. ”