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Monsey, NY - Bobov Yeshiva Administrator: Cow Slaughter Has Zero Affiliation With Us; Done Without Our Permission

Published on: May 5, 2009 04:44 PM
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Ramapo Police were called to Yeshiva Bobover at 609 Route 306 last night after neighbors reported students and teachers had tied a cow to a tree and were slaughtering it. (Vincent DiSalvio / The Journal News)Ramapo Police were called to Yeshiva Bobover at 609 Route 306 last night after neighbors reported students and teachers had tied a cow to a tree and were slaughtering it. (Vincent DiSalvio / The Journal News)

Monsey, NY - After the Journal News reported today [posted by VIN News] about an allegation that a Jewish school took part in an illegal slaughter of a cow, the Yeshiva Administrator of Bobov released the following statement to VIN News:

Please note that the story of the shechita of the cow on our grounds had nothing to do with me, nor with Bobov. A group of people learning hilchos shechita, used our lot for their practice without our permission. They say that they tried to contact me, but they couldn’t reach me. I surely wouldn’t allow our grounds to be used for this, although no laws were broken.

Rabbi Gershon Borenfreund
Yeshiva Administrator - Bobover Yeshiva of Monsey

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1

 May 05, 2009 at 04:26 PM Milhouse Says:

So why would he not have given permission?

In any case, so long as they clean up after themselves, and leave it as clean as they found it, I don't see what right he would have to deny permission. Zeh neheneh vezeh lo choser. Especially since it isn't his private property, and its purpose is to promote Jewish learning.

2

 May 05, 2009 at 04:08 PM Halacha LaMaaseh Says:

It is good that they would ask for permission, but they went ahead with the shechita anyway. Why did they not deliver the cow to a meat market to prepare steaks and other cuts? Bal Tashchis is a mitzvah that is a choshuva nekudah in this case. Poor cow. All that steak gone to waste. Chaval, I could have eaten it for dinner.

3

 May 05, 2009 at 03:53 PM Anonymous Says:

RIGHT! some people just showed up on their property and shechted a cow......
things like this happen all the time

4

 May 05, 2009 at 04:35 PM Anonymous Says:

When I told my rebbeh I heard someone go moo moooo he said I was hearing things. Apparently not.

5

 May 05, 2009 at 04:34 PM Anonymous Says:

And how nobody realized there was a cow in yeshiva is just amazing. This is new meaning to Chasidishe shechita.

6

 May 05, 2009 at 05:24 PM Bill the Poet Says:

The friendly cow all red and white,
I love with all my heart:
She gives me cream with all her might,
To eat with apple-tart.

But then she came to Monsey town,
It was a big mistake;
They tied her to a willow tree
And turned her into steak.

The neighbors cried out loud they did
To see a cow so dead
And spread upon Route 306
With a yarmulke on her head!

7

 May 05, 2009 at 05:18 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #2  
Halacha LaMaaseh Says:

It is good that they would ask for permission, but they went ahead with the shechita anyway. Why did they not deliver the cow to a meat market to prepare steaks and other cuts? Bal Tashchis is a mitzvah that is a choshuva nekudah in this case. Poor cow. All that steak gone to waste. Chaval, I could have eaten it for dinner.

Who on earth told you it was wasted?

8

 May 05, 2009 at 05:16 PM seer Says:

i think its wild to think its ok to take a cow and learn schitah in the back yard of a yeshiva, wherever it may be .the place to learn schitah is in a slaughter house, not a back yard. it was wrong and who ever did it must take the responsibility accordingly.

9

 May 05, 2009 at 05:01 PM Anonymous Says:

It would seem that Rabbi Borenfreund is well versed in local and federal laws and ordinances to unequivocally declare that "no laws were broken." Now might be a prudent time to consult with counsel.

10

 May 05, 2009 at 04:56 PM Anonymous Says:

Maybe people wander past cows all the time in BP. Funny, I never thought it was India.

Was the Yeshiva in session? Could the talmidim see? If they are young kids some of them must have been upset. How did they secure the animal? There are a lot of questions, and I think laws were broken. USDA regulates schechita and all animal slaughter.

Typical I can do what I want attitude.

11

 May 05, 2009 at 04:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Milhouse Says:

So why would he not have given permission?

In any case, so long as they clean up after themselves, and leave it as clean as they found it, I don't see what right he would have to deny permission. Zeh neheneh vezeh lo choser. Especially since it isn't his private property, and its purpose is to promote Jewish learning.

This whole episode is a shanda and a busha. Would you like in your neighborhood. Chilul hashem. What about all the diseases that spread before it is cleaned up. What about the children who are terrified. If you go along with this charpah, you have lost your mind.

12

 May 05, 2009 at 04:43 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Halacha LaMaaseh Says:

It is good that they would ask for permission, but they went ahead with the shechita anyway. Why did they not deliver the cow to a meat market to prepare steaks and other cuts? Bal Tashchis is a mitzvah that is a choshuva nekudah in this case. Poor cow. All that steak gone to waste. Chaval, I could have eaten it for dinner.

Who says that they Shechted it there, and who says it was wasted? I like to see how people constantly jump to conclusions without checking facts first.

13

 May 05, 2009 at 04:40 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Milhouse Says:

So why would he not have given permission?

In any case, so long as they clean up after themselves, and leave it as clean as they found it, I don't see what right he would have to deny permission. Zeh neheneh vezeh lo choser. Especially since it isn't his private property, and its purpose is to promote Jewish learning.

Because they don’t want to aggravate their biased neighbors.

14

 May 05, 2009 at 05:31 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #8  
seer Says:

i think its wild to think its ok to take a cow and learn schitah in the back yard of a yeshiva, wherever it may be .the place to learn schitah is in a slaughter house, not a back yard. it was wrong and who ever did it must take the responsibility accordingly.

First tell us exactly what you think is wrong with it.

15

 May 05, 2009 at 05:37 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #7  
Milhouse Says:

Who on earth told you it was wasted?

Who on earth told you permission was denied?!!! All he said was they didnt ask permission.I am sure if they showed up on your shul's parking lot with a cow you would be more than happy to let them use it as after all,"its purpose is to promote Jewish learning." And,"Zeh neheneh vezeh lo choser"!

16

 May 05, 2009 at 05:36 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Halacha LaMaaseh Says:

It is good that they would ask for permission, but they went ahead with the shechita anyway. Why did they not deliver the cow to a meat market to prepare steaks and other cuts? Bal Tashchis is a mitzvah that is a choshuva nekudah in this case. Poor cow. All that steak gone to waste. Chaval, I could have eaten it for dinner.

because it was treif

17

 May 05, 2009 at 06:41 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Milhouse Says:

So why would he not have given permission?

In any case, so long as they clean up after themselves, and leave it as clean as they found it, I don't see what right he would have to deny permission. Zeh neheneh vezeh lo choser. Especially since it isn't his private property, and its purpose is to promote Jewish learning.

Milhouse, You are one sick person. You really need medical assistance. What's wrong with it, let me think you retard? But since you retard Milhouse does not know what is wrong with it let me fill you in:
1. It's a massive chillul hashem. It was printed in journal news and frum people like me think it's very wrong. This gives one more reason why NOT to support people like yourselves.
2. You cannot go ahead and just shecht an animal in a residential neighborhood. If you cannot understand that then ask your local rav.
3. Let say it was legal. So in your opinion if a women who lived in Monsey decided to sun bathe with no clothing, in her own back yard in full view of her Bobov and Satmar neighbors you would NOT have a problem with that, right????

18

 May 05, 2009 at 06:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Milhouse Says:

So why would he not have given permission?

In any case, so long as they clean up after themselves, and leave it as clean as they found it, I don't see what right he would have to deny permission. Zeh neheneh vezeh lo choser. Especially since it isn't his private property, and its purpose is to promote Jewish learning.

dont be such a lamden on other peoples cheshbon----------------

19

 May 05, 2009 at 06:25 PM Mooooooo! Says:

Reply to #8  
seer Says:

i think its wild to think its ok to take a cow and learn schitah in the back yard of a yeshiva, wherever it may be .the place to learn schitah is in a slaughter house, not a back yard. it was wrong and who ever did it must take the responsibility accordingly.

Obviously it wasnt wrong and there was no "responsibility" to take because its not against the law. When the g-men came they didnt find anything wrong.

20

 May 05, 2009 at 06:24 PM Use Your Head Says:

Reply to #6  
Bill the Poet Says:

The friendly cow all red and white,
I love with all my heart:
She gives me cream with all her might,
To eat with apple-tart.

But then she came to Monsey town,
It was a big mistake;
They tied her to a willow tree
And turned her into steak.

The neighbors cried out loud they did
To see a cow so dead
And spread upon Route 306
With a yarmulke on her head!

Nice work! Just for the record, Monsey is a hamlet, not a town....

21

 May 05, 2009 at 06:21 PM Anonymous Says:

I don't see in his statement which bobov it is & it is a big nafka minah because then we will be able to detirmine how big of a baheimah we are discussing here

22

 May 05, 2009 at 06:21 PM Mooooooo! Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

because it was treif

How do you know it was treif? Maybe it was a kosher sh'chita? And even if it was treif, maybe they had an ayno yehudi to give it to???

23

 May 05, 2009 at 06:19 PM thekvetcher Says:

just be glad they werent learning hilchos niddah or kiddushin

24

 May 05, 2009 at 06:10 PM PMO Says:

Reply to #15  
Anonymous Says:

Who on earth told you permission was denied?!!! All he said was they didnt ask permission.I am sure if they showed up on your shul's parking lot with a cow you would be more than happy to let them use it as after all,"its purpose is to promote Jewish learning." And,"Zeh neheneh vezeh lo choser"!

While permission was not "denied", it would have been as the Rav clearly states: "I surely wouldn't allow our grounds to be used for this..." And rightfully so. This was a serious lapse in judgment on the part of the adult participants. This was not illegal. It was just a complete lack of common sense.

This is right up there with the moron here in FL who can't understand why his neighbors don't like the fact that he keeps 2 dozen chickens in his yard.

One chillul H" after another these days.... when will common sense finally prevail???

25

 May 05, 2009 at 07:07 PM The smart one Says:

Oh Yeah This Can Happen Only In Monsey!

26

 May 05, 2009 at 07:05 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #9  
Anonymous Says:

It would seem that Rabbi Borenfreund is well versed in local and federal laws and ordinances to unequivocally declare that "no laws were broken." Now might be a prudent time to consult with counsel.

Why? Who has claimed that any laws WERE broken? Do you consult with counsel every day, just in case you might have broken some unspecified law?

27

 May 05, 2009 at 07:06 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #11  
Anonymous Says:

This whole episode is a shanda and a busha. Would you like in your neighborhood. Chilul hashem. What about all the diseases that spread before it is cleaned up. What about the children who are terrified. If you go along with this charpah, you have lost your mind.

What diseases? What children? You seem to have a very active imagination. Lo dubim velo yaar.

28

 May 05, 2009 at 07:09 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #15  
Anonymous Says:

Who on earth told you permission was denied?!!! All he said was they didnt ask permission.I am sure if they showed up on your shul's parking lot with a cow you would be more than happy to let them use it as after all,"its purpose is to promote Jewish learning." And,"Zeh neheneh vezeh lo choser"!

What on earth are you on about? Are you on drugs? Did I say permission was denied? I asked why he *would* have denied permission, had they managed to get through to him. And I wondered whether he would even have had the *right* to deny permission. Zeh neheneh vezeh lo choser is a halacha. It's not up to him whether to follow it or not.

29

 May 05, 2009 at 07:09 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #16  
Anonymous Says:

because it was treif

What??? Who told you?

30

 May 05, 2009 at 07:49 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

Milhouse, You are one sick person. You really need medical assistance. What's wrong with it, let me think you retard? But since you retard Milhouse does not know what is wrong with it let me fill you in:
1. It's a massive chillul hashem. It was printed in journal news and frum people like me think it's very wrong. This gives one more reason why NOT to support people like yourselves.
2. You cannot go ahead and just shecht an animal in a residential neighborhood. If you cannot understand that then ask your local rav.
3. Let say it was legal. So in your opinion if a women who lived in Monsey decided to sun bathe with no clothing, in her own back yard in full view of her Bobov and Satmar neighbors you would NOT have a problem with that, right????

Rabosai: First, lets stop calling everything that we disagree with a "chilul hashem". This incident sounds like plain stupidity by some young bochurim with too much time on their hands.

Second, please stop responding to Mihouse's postings or calling him names....while I haven't been around for very long, there are clearly some problems with him and it does not serve any purpose to taunt him. If you just ignore him he will stop his nareshkeit and go away.

31

 May 05, 2009 at 07:42 PM yuki Says:

Wich bobov does any one know ? This story is crazy. Where did they get this cow ?

32

 May 05, 2009 at 07:36 PM Anonymous Says:

One thing is for sure that Bobov under the leadership of Rab Shlomo Z"L or Rab Naftali Z"L this would have never happened they were an example of mentshlichkeit that if all the chasidim had chasidus would not have a bad name

33

 May 05, 2009 at 07:34 PM Mesira Says:

Did anyone watch the video? This "Carol Friedman" person is clearly an antisemite (and please don't tell me its impossible for her as a Jew to be antisemitic, sadly some of our greatest enemies are fellow Jews). She has nothing better to do than to try and shut down what she calls an "illegal yeshiva" with its "hassidim men." She was so happy to show off to the goyisher velt on TV that she is 'enlightened' unlike those religious Jews who "were slaughtering this calf, and it was chained to a tree, and the hassidim teenage boys was [sic] circling around like some kind of ritual."

Granted whoever was in charge of orchestrating this event should have considered it further and foresaw the potential for a Chillul HaShem (especially if they knew there were people living in the community who are intent on working against their every move). However lets call a spade a spade, and recognize that none of this would be on anyone's radar if this antisemitic woman had not reported the event to the police and invited the media.

34

 May 05, 2009 at 07:34 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #21  
Anonymous Says:

I don't see in his statement which bobov it is & it is a big nafka minah because then we will be able to detirmine how big of a baheimah we are discussing here

#21 you are the best.

35

 May 05, 2009 at 07:33 PM egghead Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

Maybe people wander past cows all the time in BP. Funny, I never thought it was India.

Was the Yeshiva in session? Could the talmidim see? If they are young kids some of them must have been upset. How did they secure the animal? There are a lot of questions, and I think laws were broken. USDA regulates schechita and all animal slaughter.

Typical I can do what I want attitude.

If you would of read the previous article you would know that they didn't break no laws it is completely permissable to shecht a cow in ones backyard the USDA fhas nothing to with this they only oversee meat that is processed in a commercial facilty for public consumptions

36

 May 05, 2009 at 07:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #28  
Milhouse Says:

What on earth are you on about? Are you on drugs? Did I say permission was denied? I asked why he *would* have denied permission, had they managed to get through to him. And I wondered whether he would even have had the *right* to deny permission. Zeh neheneh vezeh lo choser is a halacha. It's not up to him whether to follow it or not.

There is also a halachah not to make or allow a chillul hashem so he would not be allowed to give permission.

37

 May 05, 2009 at 07:12 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

Milhouse, You are one sick person. You really need medical assistance. What's wrong with it, let me think you retard? But since you retard Milhouse does not know what is wrong with it let me fill you in:
1. It's a massive chillul hashem. It was printed in journal news and frum people like me think it's very wrong. This gives one more reason why NOT to support people like yourselves.
2. You cannot go ahead and just shecht an animal in a residential neighborhood. If you cannot understand that then ask your local rav.
3. Let say it was legal. So in your opinion if a women who lived in Monsey decided to sun bathe with no clothing, in her own back yard in full view of her Bobov and Satmar neighbors you would NOT have a problem with that, right????

1. How is it a chilul Hashem? Who was harmed? Are we supposed to care what a bunch of ignorant bigots think?

2. Sure you can. You want me to ask a rov? That means you think there's a halachic problem. So why don't you spell it out? What siman in Shulchan Aruch should I consult?

3. That would be against halacha. Now tell me how shechting is against halacha or law or morality or anything else but your own stupid aesthetic preferences.

38

 May 05, 2009 at 07:13 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #18  
Anonymous Says:

dont be such a lamden on other peoples cheshbon----------------

On whose cheshbon? That's precisely my point. Provided that they cleaned the place up, it would be on nobody's cheshbon, and therefore the land owner would have no right to deny permission.

39

 May 05, 2009 at 08:02 PM Anonymous Says:

Inder alter heim they didn't shecht in a biutcher shop they took the chicken to the shoichetsd house in a residential area.

40

 May 05, 2009 at 07:59 PM ANONYMOUS Says:

And Tartikov should be welcomed to Pomona?

41

 May 05, 2009 at 07:58 PM Anonymous Says:

no affilation nor is he a known relative

42

 May 05, 2009 at 07:58 PM Anonymous Says:

The Bobover rebbe is not telling the truth if he is saying that this whole affair could happen on their property in broad daylight without their knowledge or implicit authorization. Even in Monsey, people just don't happen to show up with a cow to be tied to a tree, wrestled to the gound and have his throat slit. Is it any wonder that the neighbors in Monsey and KJ will do ANYTHING they can to fight the location or expansion of yiddeshe facilities in their towns. They have created a public relations disaster for yiddin that will cause more problems than they ever could imagine. How could the Bobover act with such sinas chinam towards other yiddin.

43

 May 05, 2009 at 08:29 PM Use Your Head Says:

Reply to #37  
Milhouse Says:

1. How is it a chilul Hashem? Who was harmed? Are we supposed to care what a bunch of ignorant bigots think?

2. Sure you can. You want me to ask a rov? That means you think there's a halachic problem. So why don't you spell it out? What siman in Shulchan Aruch should I consult?

3. That would be against halacha. Now tell me how shechting is against halacha or law or morality or anything else but your own stupid aesthetic preferences.

1. Kol she'ain ruach ha'briyos nocha heimenu, ein ruach HaMakom nocha heimenu. So, yes.

2. The fifth chelek. AKA common sense.

3. Whatever

44

 May 05, 2009 at 08:32 PM shomrim Says:

Reply to #42  
Anonymous Says:

The Bobover rebbe is not telling the truth if he is saying that this whole affair could happen on their property in broad daylight without their knowledge or implicit authorization. Even in Monsey, people just don't happen to show up with a cow to be tied to a tree, wrestled to the gound and have his throat slit. Is it any wonder that the neighbors in Monsey and KJ will do ANYTHING they can to fight the location or expansion of yiddeshe facilities in their towns. They have created a public relations disaster for yiddin that will cause more problems than they ever could imagine. How could the Bobover act with such sinas chinam towards other yiddin.

hey "42" I would watch my mouth... u r going over the line..

45

 May 05, 2009 at 08:27 PM Anonymous Says:

I just find this extremely funny... hope that welsley hills will not turn into potsville now... I understand people pay too much for the real estate to live in a slaughterhouse...

46

 May 05, 2009 at 08:24 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #38  
Milhouse Says:

On whose cheshbon? That's precisely my point. Provided that they cleaned the place up, it would be on nobody's cheshbon, and therefore the land owner would have no right to deny permission.

Such shechting (chasideshe or otherwise) on someone else's property without obtaining proper approval is clearly against halacha....you show your contempt of yiddeshe values by saying that "no land owner has the right to deny permission". Even if you would do this on your own property, hashem should have rachmonis on your family and neighbors.

47

 May 05, 2009 at 08:14 PM What a funny story. Says:

What a funny story.

48

 May 05, 2009 at 08:08 PM Anonymous Says:

First of all, I believe that the USDA has nothing to do with slaughtering for your own private purposes in a private setting.
What they did was totaly legal, and common until a few years ago (OK, I admit it was done with small animals). They still sell live animals for slaughter in Brooklyn (on 61st St).

49

 May 05, 2009 at 08:35 PM Anonymous Says:

I wouldn't be surprised if these Bobover idiots whjo shected the cow in Monsey were related to that deranged Bobover chasid who showed up a the Kotel in Yerushalayim on erev yom tov last month dragging a goat that he wanted to schect as a karban pseach. (VIN ran the story in early April). To the best of my knowledge he is still being held in an institution for observation. While the Bobover are ehrleche yiddin and have wonderful midos, this obcession with shechita and karbanos is going to be a real burden for the rest of klal yisroel unless they begin to show some common sense.

50

 May 05, 2009 at 08:35 PM merkin Says:

In case anyone is interested, this story is now on ABC Radio news and probably will be picked up by most media by tomorrow. This is truly a Chillul Hashem of huge dimensions as nearly everyone hearing this story will think that "Orthodox" Jews are very strange and primitive. If you can't understand that it is only because you are so sheltered you have no idea how other types of people think. Furthermore, I am willing to bet that there is indeed a state law against slaughtering livestock in residential neighborhoods. But that is a secondary point. The biggest point here is that the idiots who did this have brought further embarrassment to the Torah world, and made us even more of a laughing stock in the eyes of the non-frum and gentiles who do pay attention to what we do.

51

 May 05, 2009 at 08:05 PM wsd Says:

Reply to #28  
Milhouse Says:

What on earth are you on about? Are you on drugs? Did I say permission was denied? I asked why he *would* have denied permission, had they managed to get through to him. And I wondered whether he would even have had the *right* to deny permission. Zeh neheneh vezeh lo choser is a halacha. It's not up to him whether to follow it or not.

Millhouse stand down on this one there are numerous instances this can be a "choser" for the school one obvious one is the fact that they might have been trying to work out there obviously not so good relationship with the neighbors .

52

 May 05, 2009 at 08:04 PM Anonymous Says:

what a chilul hashem. why cant frum yidenn act like a mensch. this shchita shouls take place in a shlacht hoiz only. this is not good our childr4en need to be taught manners how to deal nicely with other people.

53

 May 05, 2009 at 09:39 PM nitpickin Says:

What happens during deer hunting season? Where do you take the deer to get slaughtered to eat the meat. I witnessed someone carving their deer on Camp Hill Road. No one was calling the police there.

54

 May 05, 2009 at 09:23 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

When I told my rebbeh I heard someone go moo moooo he said I was hearing things. Apparently not.

this is no joke its a big agmes nefesh for the rosh hayeshiva

55

 May 05, 2009 at 09:02 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #52  
Anonymous Says:

what a chilul hashem. why cant frum yidenn act like a mensch. this shchita shouls take place in a shlacht hoiz only. this is not good our childr4en need to be taught manners how to deal nicely with other people.

Well, you obviously need to be taught this lesson. How is it that you need to deal nicely with everybody EXCEPT the people who did this? Are they not people too?

56

 May 05, 2009 at 08:55 PM Yaakovsladder Says:

Reply to #1  
Milhouse Says:

So why would he not have given permission?

In any case, so long as they clean up after themselves, and leave it as clean as they found it, I don't see what right he would have to deny permission. Zeh neheneh vezeh lo choser. Especially since it isn't his private property, and its purpose is to promote Jewish learning.

Milhouse, while more often than not I tend to agree with your opinions here in this case I disagree with you. He is responsable (sorry about the spelling) for what goes on on Yeshiva grounds. While no laws may have been broken it certainly showed a lack of derech eretz to slaughter a cow in the middle of a residential neighborhood. Frankly I am somewhat surprised that no laws were in fact broken. The federal and state agencies keep a strong eye on what goes on in slaughterhouses both kosher and non-kosher and for there to be no laws regarding the slaughter of animals in residential neighborhoods for certain is an oversight on their behalf.

57

 May 05, 2009 at 08:52 PM Anonymous Says:

This monsey incident about the cow being g'schet outside the bes medrash in Monsey was the closing item on the 9:00 PM news tonight. They made a big joke out of it as if yiddin were like the Hatians the commentator said live in Miami who still schect chickens as part of their voodo rituals. I'm afraid anyone hearing the show will think all Chassidim are like these meshuganahs in Monsey.

58

 May 05, 2009 at 08:57 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #43  
Use Your Head Says:

1. Kol she'ain ruach ha'briyos nocha heimenu, ein ruach HaMakom nocha heimenu. So, yes.

2. The fifth chelek. AKA common sense.

3. Whatever

1. The people we're talking about are not "briyos". And kol shekein az zei zenen nisht kein mentchen.

59

 May 05, 2009 at 08:58 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #46  
Anonymous Says:

Such shechting (chasideshe or otherwise) on someone else's property without obtaining proper approval is clearly against halacha....you show your contempt of yiddeshe values by saying that "no land owner has the right to deny permission". Even if you would do this on your own property, hashem should have rachmonis on your family and neighbors.

Zeh neheneh vezeh lo choser is not a yiddisher value?

60

 May 05, 2009 at 08:45 PM HAGTBG Says:

The school administrator, Rabbi Borenfreund, is clear that he understands (now) that it is not acceptable to slaughter a large animal on private property in view of neighbors. It's a shame some here defend this strange occurrence.

61

 May 05, 2009 at 08:45 PM Anonymous Says:

They shouldn't have done it. Why do they have to make themselselves look like some kind of "white trash." You would think that educated Jews would show a little more class and take the students to a slaughterhouse. When I was a child, my father (who was a butcher) did just that. I saw how a cow was slaughtered, I spoke to the shochet, and that is how I learned. We didn't shecht the cow in our yard, and if we did, the neighbors would have been correct to do something about it.
I do think however, that Mrs. Friedman's comments were ignorant and disgusting.

63

 May 05, 2009 at 09:59 PM Mooooo!! Says:

Reply to #35  
egghead Says:

If you would of read the previous article you would know that they didn't break no laws it is completely permissable to shecht a cow in ones backyard the USDA fhas nothing to with this they only oversee meat that is processed in a commercial facilty for public consumptions

Add to that.... USDA is only where the meat is shipped interstate. There is a store in Chicago with cold cuts that are better than any others but they cant ship out of Illinois due to no USDA inspections.

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 May 05, 2009 at 09:53 PM Mooooo!! Says:

Reply to #24  
PMO Says:

While permission was not "denied", it would have been as the Rav clearly states: "I surely wouldn't allow our grounds to be used for this..." And rightfully so. This was a serious lapse in judgment on the part of the adult participants. This was not illegal. It was just a complete lack of common sense.

This is right up there with the moron here in FL who can't understand why his neighbors don't like the fact that he keeps 2 dozen chickens in his yard.

One chillul H" after another these days.... when will common sense finally prevail???

Anchuldikt but which "Rav" are you quoting?

You cannot compare this where the b'haima was in the yard for a short amount of time to someone who wants to "KEEP 2 DOZEN CHICKENS IN HIS YARD." This was VERY temporary. It obviously wasnt a big b'haima either. For all we know they didnt even shecht it here since the authorities could find no evidence of sh'chita happening here.

65

 May 05, 2009 at 09:00 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #49  
Anonymous Says:

I wouldn't be surprised if these Bobover idiots whjo shected the cow in Monsey were related to that deranged Bobover chasid who showed up a the Kotel in Yerushalayim on erev yom tov last month dragging a goat that he wanted to schect as a karban pseach. (VIN ran the story in early April). To the best of my knowledge he is still being held in an institution for observation. While the Bobover are ehrleche yiddin and have wonderful midos, this obcession with shechita and karbanos is going to be a real burden for the rest of klal yisroel unless they begin to show some common sense.

Oy vey, another LIAR. Noam Federman is neither deranged nor a Bobover. Where do you people get these things from? Do you think it's acceptable to just make stuff up for the fun of it? It's not funny, it's LYING.

66

 May 05, 2009 at 10:35 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #36  
Anonymous Says:

There is also a halachah not to make or allow a chillul hashem so he would not be allowed to give permission.

Why is this a chilul hashen, for heavan sake. It seem like everythink that some idiots dont like they immediately scream "Chilul Hashem". You are all a Chilul Hashem. Normal people read this and they say "So Much Stupid Yidden" That's a chilul hashem.

67

 May 05, 2009 at 10:28 PM PMO Says:

Reply to #64  
Mooooo!! Says:

Anchuldikt but which "Rav" are you quoting?

You cannot compare this where the b'haima was in the yard for a short amount of time to someone who wants to "KEEP 2 DOZEN CHICKENS IN HIS YARD." This was VERY temporary. It obviously wasnt a big b'haima either. For all we know they didnt even shecht it here since the authorities could find no evidence of sh'chita happening here.

That was not really the point.... The point was that for some reason Yidden keep having serious "common sense" lapses that are making it on the news and making us all look like crazies.... one chillul H" after another.

68

 May 05, 2009 at 10:27 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #17  
Anonymous Says:

Milhouse, You are one sick person. You really need medical assistance. What's wrong with it, let me think you retard? But since you retard Milhouse does not know what is wrong with it let me fill you in:
1. It's a massive chillul hashem. It was printed in journal news and frum people like me think it's very wrong. This gives one more reason why NOT to support people like yourselves.
2. You cannot go ahead and just shecht an animal in a residential neighborhood. If you cannot understand that then ask your local rav.
3. Let say it was legal. So in your opinion if a women who lived in Monsey decided to sun bathe with no clothing, in her own back yard in full view of her Bobov and Satmar neighbors you would NOT have a problem with that, right????

1. What is a massive chilul hashem? That they are learning Shechita? And so what if it's printed in the anti-Semitic Journal News? That makes it a chilul hashem? And so what if you and people like you - who think that they know it all - think it's very wrong? Besides, who needs the support of people like you who are ashamed of practicing Judaism?
2. Show us all where it says in the Torah that you are not permitted to shecht in a residential neighborhood. I think you should ask a rav.
3. What's the comparison?
The bottom line is, that you sound like a retarded person. You are a danger in a residential neighborhood. You should register yourself right now in the nearest mental institution.

69

 May 05, 2009 at 10:18 PM Mooooo!! Says:

OK folks, clearly this person has an axe to grind here. I saw the video on http://www.lohud.com/article/2009905050411 and this was almost gurnisht mit gurnisht.

She has such hate and contempt for the "illegal yeshiva," for "hasidim men," for frum yiddin in general that it drips from her words like venom.

The story makes no sense which tells me she embellished it. This was a CALF not a cow. There is a big difference. She said they were "dancing around it with knives," however I say "OH COMEON" how do we beleive that.

Monsey is still suburbia and it makes sense that people could kill animals in their yards so they could eat it. Had she been happier if her goy neighbor would have brought home a deer that he shot with an arrow or a gun and gutted it in the backyard? Probably.

She is a sikko and I hope this person and her rosha neighbors make complete fools out of themselves at the Zoning Board meeting next week.

70

 May 05, 2009 at 10:51 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #66  
Anonymous Says:

Why is this a chilul hashen, for heavan sake. It seem like everythink that some idiots dont like they immediately scream "Chilul Hashem". You are all a Chilul Hashem. Normal people read this and they say "So Much Stupid Yidden" That's a chilul hashem.

The only real case of chilul Hashem, as found in Rambam, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot YesodeiHaTorah, chapter 5, concerns the obligation, in certain circumstances, to sacrifice one's life rather than violate a Torah law. In this case, saving the life of a cow in Monsey does not rise to the level of a uchilul hashem by any definition.

71

 May 06, 2009 at 05:42 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #10  
Anonymous Says:

Maybe people wander past cows all the time in BP. Funny, I never thought it was India.

Was the Yeshiva in session? Could the talmidim see? If they are young kids some of them must have been upset. How did they secure the animal? There are a lot of questions, and I think laws were broken. USDA regulates schechita and all animal slaughter.

Typical I can do what I want attitude.

Tell that to the NRA, and NYS Dept E C.
Go up in Oct. and Nov. and see all the DEAD animals on cars.
Not regulated at all as it should be.

72

 May 06, 2009 at 05:38 AM goldy rosenberg Says:

Time for some Jewish pride...
Now I don't know what the story really is, but I do know that in all high schools they take animals and dissect them for the study of biology and Carol doesn't call police. Even if she would, the police would say, "that is the study of science" and there would be nothing illegal about it. Speak to any public school (and some Yeshiva) kids and they will tell you they have dissected animals. If no law was broken, as far as the police know that there aren't any regulations against it, then the police doing a search did something illegal. They can only search when they think a crime has been committed.
So why did the police search a Yeshiva campus when they didn't know "if any laws" were violated? Ah, there are different standards for Jews -- anything that looks wrong to a neighbor must be wrong and all the bloggers answer Amen. Why is it okay to dissect rats, frogs and pigs to study science, but not okay to study a cow up close for Shechitah. Oh, because my fellow blog commentators are embarassed to say "Ivri Anochi" I am a Jew and it is okay for me to learn things about Halacha, just as the others learn about science.

73

 May 06, 2009 at 07:21 AM shmuel Says:

Reply to #72  
goldy rosenberg Says:

Time for some Jewish pride...
Now I don't know what the story really is, but I do know that in all high schools they take animals and dissect them for the study of biology and Carol doesn't call police. Even if she would, the police would say, "that is the study of science" and there would be nothing illegal about it. Speak to any public school (and some Yeshiva) kids and they will tell you they have dissected animals. If no law was broken, as far as the police know that there aren't any regulations against it, then the police doing a search did something illegal. They can only search when they think a crime has been committed.
So why did the police search a Yeshiva campus when they didn't know "if any laws" were violated? Ah, there are different standards for Jews -- anything that looks wrong to a neighbor must be wrong and all the bloggers answer Amen. Why is it okay to dissect rats, frogs and pigs to study science, but not okay to study a cow up close for Shechitah. Oh, because my fellow blog commentators are embarassed to say "Ivri Anochi" I am a Jew and it is okay for me to learn things about Halacha, just as the others learn about science.

goldy, you are an idiot. go back to the kitchen. in the high schools, they don't dissect animals on lawns in residential neighborhoods. they do it in labratories. You cant'; tell the difference. Of course studying schita is ok, just not in the backyard in a neighborhood.

74

 May 06, 2009 at 08:25 AM FVNMS Says:

They shechted a cow. How horrible.

By the way, all of you crybabies got me into the mood for steak. Obama is taking away all of my money and I can't afford it. Thanks for nothing.

75

 May 06, 2009 at 09:02 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #1  
Milhouse Says:

So why would he not have given permission?

In any case, so long as they clean up after themselves, and leave it as clean as they found it, I don't see what right he would have to deny permission. Zeh neheneh vezeh lo choser. Especially since it isn't his private property, and its purpose is to promote Jewish learning.

The Chaser is that American law says you CANNOT do this. Dina D'malchusa Dina. I happen to agree to the American law in this case. It is not safe and diseases can come because of it. Think of the "swine flu".

76

 May 06, 2009 at 09:09 AM avi Says:

we are our own worst enemy (carol Friedman)!! It would be prudent for the hanhala of teh yeshiva to meet with friedman, and try to establish some nice neighborly relationships, because, for some reason, she really hates them, and wants to see them go down!

77

 May 06, 2009 at 09:53 AM nu nu Says:

when a (goy) hunter kills a deer with a gun or a bow he guts the deer within 1 or 2 hrs of his kill so the meat wont go bad for the goy its ok to hang a deer by its hind legs in his yard during hunting season but g-d for bid a yeshiva kills a cow its no good double standard ? that's Pomona, THANK G-D they fired the code enforcer !!!!! LETS SEE deer hunting season call the police about a deer in a yard or drive on the NY 17 in November and see how many dead deer on cars on the road...Pomona would love to see all the Jews move out so they can go back to tree hugging

78

 May 06, 2009 at 10:03 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #5  
Anonymous Says:

And how nobody realized there was a cow in yeshiva is just amazing. This is new meaning to Chasidishe shechita.

This is a preschool! The calf was allegdly brought with a brown van at 5:00 PM. By about 7:00 PM the police were already at the scene. The school was likely closed and deserted by that time.

79

 May 06, 2009 at 10:29 AM duh Says:

that neighbot needs to get a job and mind her own business this is a non story

80

 May 06, 2009 at 11:29 AM Moooooo!! Says:

Reply to #75  
Anonymous Says:

The Chaser is that American law says you CANNOT do this. Dina D'malchusa Dina. I happen to agree to the American law in this case. It is not safe and diseases can come because of it. Think of the "swine flu".

I have found the idiot ans it is you!!!!! BIG TIME!!!!

If you read the story online you would see clearly that the officials said there was NOTHING done illegally here.

This was a small calf & they were learning sh'chita so they shechted the b'haima there. Where it was processed is not a big deal. It was either done in the kitchen or they took it some place else for traiboring. This is not a big deal. When I was in yeshiva we got a calf before Rosh HaShona & it was traibored in a classroom then kashered in the kitchen. Big deal!!!!!!

The lady, this individual on the video, as well as her wonderful no good lying neighbors, have box seats waiting for them in g'henim just waiting to be occupied.

81

 May 06, 2009 at 11:40 AM FVNMS Says:

Reply to #77  
nu nu Says:

when a (goy) hunter kills a deer with a gun or a bow he guts the deer within 1 or 2 hrs of his kill so the meat wont go bad for the goy its ok to hang a deer by its hind legs in his yard during hunting season but g-d for bid a yeshiva kills a cow its no good double standard ? that's Pomona, THANK G-D they fired the code enforcer !!!!! LETS SEE deer hunting season call the police about a deer in a yard or drive on the NY 17 in November and see how many dead deer on cars on the road...Pomona would love to see all the Jews move out so they can go back to tree hugging

They don't want to hug trees. They want to have a certain quality of life that urbanization, crowding, noise, etc. is just not conducive to. And before anyone scolds me for being a self hating Jew please name me a Chassidish community noted for its wide open spaces, low traffic, and serenity? Tell me and I'll move there. Antisemitism is a real thing and may G-d hasten the day that antisemites get their payback, but its not the be-all end-all argument. We aren't Al Sharpton after all.

82

 May 06, 2009 at 01:41 PM Askupeh Says:

Reply to #33  
Mesira Says:

Did anyone watch the video? This "Carol Friedman" person is clearly an antisemite (and please don't tell me its impossible for her as a Jew to be antisemitic, sadly some of our greatest enemies are fellow Jews). She has nothing better to do than to try and shut down what she calls an "illegal yeshiva" with its "hassidim men." She was so happy to show off to the goyisher velt on TV that she is 'enlightened' unlike those religious Jews who "were slaughtering this calf, and it was chained to a tree, and the hassidim teenage boys was [sic] circling around like some kind of ritual."

Granted whoever was in charge of orchestrating this event should have considered it further and foresaw the potential for a Chillul HaShem (especially if they knew there were people living in the community who are intent on working against their every move). However lets call a spade a spade, and recognize that none of this would be on anyone's radar if this antisemitic woman had not reported the event to the police and invited the media.

Right on target, but I would like to point out that no one could have foreseen what a neighbor, a Machesheifo bent on getting rid of that Yeshiva would do next. The details of the story is still sketchy, but what we do know is that it wasn’t a cow but a calf, it wasn’t slaughtered there, it wasn’t tied up to a tree, there wasn’t an Indian ritual dance around it, and also it wasn’t against the law. Chickens are being slaughtered right in front of poultry markets right on the street in front of passerby’s, animals are allowed to be slaughtered even in the city, government permits are only needed to open a slaughterhouse, not someone doing it individually, and lastly what is the difference between this and dears? Would she have a problem with dears too? If not then she has a problem with human flesh if it’s from religious Jews. It says about Shloime Hamelech “Vayechkam Mikol Odom, Afili Min Hashoitim”, it is extremely difficult to figure out Shoitim, and it is also extremely difficult to figure out neighbors, any neighbors, especially hateful neighbors.

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 May 06, 2009 at 07:13 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #75  
Anonymous Says:

The Chaser is that American law says you CANNOT do this. Dina D'malchusa Dina. I happen to agree to the American law in this case. It is not safe and diseases can come because of it. Think of the "swine flu".

What law?

Liar. Really, WHY do so many people come on to these threads and just lie their heads off about everything? Or is it the same few liars all the time?

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