“ If my math is right, he was 12 at the beginning of the war and 16 when he was drafted to man the anti-aircraft guns. Being part of the HY at the time and at his age was what one did (like joining Scouts in the US). Figure he was high school age.
Not worth making a big thing. ”

“ We can fixate on the Pope's extra-ciricular activities as a teenager or focus on how the Vatican might become a positive force over the long term for achieving some type of workable peace settlement. I prefer the latter, but others can continue obcessing about his past.... ”

“ Maybe you didn't lose family in WW2 but I consider it a big thing.
Who are you to decide this? A high school student has the brains to know what a murderer is.

”

“ I'm sorry but to actually give him some slack. If everyone he knew was pushed to join how can he not? He was a teenager. ”

“ The issue isn't so much whether he had the choice to sign up or not, but that since he was involved (albeit against his will) it's only correct that he should offer some form of an apology. Though considering he was visiting and speaking as a representative of the Vatican and not as an individual it's understandable why this wouldn't be the appropriate platform for such an apology unless it's for the acts of the Vatican during wwii.
So I believe he has to give an apology but this isn't necessarily the place for it. ”

“ Reply to#12 this is most certainly the place for the pope to offer a genuine heartfelt apology, as the head of the vatican and as an individual who was a member of the hy. Whether he did or did not join willingly is irrelevant. ”

“ Whether he joined or was FORCED to join the HY voluntarily ,is irrelevant.
As a child, living in Vienna until 1940 (Austria had become part of the German Reich in March 1938) I can attest to what happened to the children of even friendly neighbors and my own classmates who joined volunatily or were forced (?) to join the HY.
The anti Jewish propaganda and hatred that was fed to these children
at a young age - NEVER left them! EVERY one them became an anti semite who was taught that Jews must die. - for life.
It is doubtful that the Pope was different ”

“ Now, I am not saying he is not a horrible rusha, and anti-semite. I have no use for any anti-semite.

However, we can't hold what they forced the kids to do in Germany against them.
That would be like punishing American kids for participating in mandatory activities here. He did not have a choice.

He is a bad man. There is enough on him in his adult life.

To drag his youth up, is to re-focus on that, and then when normal people excuse his youthful activities, he is "washed clean."

So, if you want him to stay dirty, as he should be, forgive his youth, and focus on today. ”

“ Why should he apologise for something he wasn't responsible for? My zeide z"l served in Stalin's army, and Stalin was at least as evil as Hitler; should he have apologised for all of Stalin's crimes? The yidden in the Camps worked for the Nazi war effort; should they apologise for that??? ”

“ What is bad about him? Can you name even one bad thing that he has done? I have contempt for the position he holds, but as far as I know he's an admirable person. ”

“ Whether he joined or was FORCED to join the HY voluntarily ,is irrelevant.
As a child, living in Vienna until 1940 (Austria had become part of the German Reich in March 1938) I can attest to what happened to the children of even friendly neighbors and my own classmates who joined volunatily or were forced (?) to join the HY.
The anti Jewish propaganda and hatred that was fed to these children
at a young age - NEVER left them! EVERY one them became an anti semite who was taught that Jews must die. - for life.
It is doubtful that the Pope was different ”

“ I see nothing in him to admire.

He was eager to reinstate that Holocause denier. I do not believe for one minute the spin the Vatican put on it. He KNEW where that man stood. He just thought he would quietly reinstate him. He failed to see that the world would notice.

He was very weak as far a recanting, and speaking out.

Though I wish everyone would defocus on his youth, it is not because I do not believe he wanted to participate. I fully believe that though he may have been "drafted" is was something he most likely willingly did.
My objection to focusing on his youth, is that a good many people, including me, will say that since he was officially forced, we can't blame him for the actions of his youth.
My concern is that too many will then automatically whitewash him, and go the other way, calling him a good man.

Also, as far as this trip to Yerushalayim. He KNEW it would really anger, humiliate, and hurt the Jews for his wearing his big cross, the symbol of so very many thousands of Jewish deaths. He could have respected that.
It is my opinion, that he wanted to flaunt it, for the purpose of subliminally making fun of the Jews, while still looking like a good guy.

I believe that he speaks with forked tongue. He says things which he can point to as "pro Isreal" or "defending the Jew" ... but too many of his other actions, seem more supportive of the converse. ”

“ If we're not mistaken, prior to being elected head of the Roman Catholic church, the current pope was the head of the "Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith," which is the present-day name for the notorious Office of the Inquisition. Setting aside the symbolism of the historical job title (Chief Inquisitor), it would be interesting to know something about the leadership-direction of the pope, while heading that office. ”

“ That would be the Roman Inquisition, which is far from notorious. Any organisatoin which defines a punishment for heresy must have some body authorised to define and deal with it. Have you got some objection to that? Is the Church supposed to just ignore heresy? The Sanhedrin also functioned as an inquisition, when it existed; and we pray "hoshivo shofteinu kevorishono". As far as I can tell, from a non-Catholic point of view, Cardinal Ratzinger seemed to handle himself very well in that office. ”

“ Have you heard of Cardinal Tomas de Torquemada, for example?
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torquemada (which gives the most sympathetic view of Torquemada that we have ever seen.)
"...While the Spanish Inquisition is generally denounced by historians for its use of torture, anonymous denunciation, and handing over convicted heretics to the government for punishment (auto-da-fe), little of this can be described as unusual for the times. But, accusations of excess can be supported by reference to Pope Sixtus IV's observation, early in 1482 (before Torquemada's appointment as Grand Inquisitor) that the Inquisitional Office at Seville, "without observing juridical prescriptions, have detained many persons in violation of justice, punishing them by severe tortures and imputing to them, without foundation, the crime of heresy, and despoiling of their wealth those sentenced to death, in such form that a great number of them have come to the Apostolic See, fleeing from such excessive rigor and protesting their orthodoxy."
"So hated did he become that at one point Torquemada travelled with a bodyguard of 50 mounted guards and 250 armed men. After 15 years as Spain's Grand Inquisitor, he died in 1498 in Ávila. For his role in the Spanish Inquisition, Torquemada's name has become a byword for fanaticism in the service of the Catholic religion."
The Roman Catholic Inquisition is notorious in the history of the Jewish people. And Grand Inquisitor of Spain, Cardinal Torquemada, is particularly notorious for his vicious cruelty and for his role in the expulsion of Spanish Jews from Spain in 1492, during the days of Ferdinand and Isabella.
Your "non-Catholic point of view" BTW seems very Catholic.
Your defense of the Inquisition did not answer the question.

”