Jerusalem – I am simply a Reform rabbi who has lived in Jerusalem with my wife and two children for the past 15 months. In a few weeks my wife, also a rabbi, and I become the co-senior rabbis of a 900 family Temple Beth-El in Great Neck, Long Island.
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I am deeply saddened by Rabbi Norman Lamm’s pronunciation that we will soon be saying Kaddish for the Reform and Conservative movements (Jerusalem Post, May 11). for his failing, in my opinion, to address the issue that is screaming out at all of us. I believe that the Reform Movement has real strengths and some profound weaknesses. In truth, I don’t know where the movement will be in 50 years.
Neither the movement’s strengths nor its weaknesses, however, are the real issue, and there is only one issue here. Sadly the most brilliant minds ignore this single most important issue, even at a time when all of us recognize the fragility of the State of Israel. No matter how powerful and extraordinary it is, and it is both, many of us see that it is in a fragile condition. What is this simple, obvious and single issue?
Just last week we observed Lag Ba’omer. Some say it was the day that the fatal plague that killed Rabbi Akiva’s 12,000 pairs of students, came to an end. The end of a plague is worthy of celebration. But the cause of the plague should be the concern that fills our batei midrash and divrei Torah. According to Yevamot 62b, these students, our best and brightest, died because of the respect that they failed to give to one another. Moreover, some have claimed that the students failed to give adequate respect because they once witnessed their beloved teacher Rabbi Akiva speak disrespectfully to his teacher, Rabbi Yohanan. Apparently, the well-being of our greatest scholars will depend not upon their brilliant Gemara skills or the funding the state provides or the threats to Israel from beyond.
Similarly, Yoma 9, teaches us the famous passage that not only the lives of our most prized students are at risk. Our most sacred building, our Temple, will fall and even our sovereignty over the land will be lost if we treat each other with something called baseless hatred.
What is this sinat hinam? It is the feeling that it is free, it costs nothing, to criticize, to diminish, to become judge over our fellow Jews. According to Yoma 9a, our Temple did not fall because of the great Roman army, because of hateful Roman anti-Semitism or even because of poor Jewish military might or strategy. The Temple fell and we lost our sovereignty over the Land of Israel because of the way we treated each other.
THIS IS NOT BAD news by the way. This is the best news possible. Neither the Romans nor Hamas, Iran nor Hizbullah, have the power to determine our future. Because I for one believe completely in these sacred texts, we must recognize that our future is in our hands and in our minds and even more, in our mouths. “Death and life are in the power of the tongue,” teach our Proverbs. The way we speak to each other will determine our future on this land. As Babbi Abraham Kook stated, the cure that will bring the third Temple will be ahavat hinam, baseless love.
So, I would be unbelievably grateful and filled with hope, if Rabbi Lamm were to give another interview. In his second installment, for all of our benefit, he would focus on the blessings that the Conservative and Reform movements have brought to the world and to the Jewish community. He can for sure set forth his great concerns about these Jewish movements that he opposes. But, he needs to criticize with a sincere tone of love rather than with a bitter sense of victory. Please, Rabbi Lamm, I believe that you have the power to make a profound impact on our future.
Obviously that reform (so called) never opened a Chumash to see that it says “Lo Sisnuh Uchichu ………….. Dont think that a reform Goy falls under the Klall of Uchichu!!!
The end of the reform movement is no more or less than demographics; they don’t have kids, and the ones they have either assimilate or become more observant. This is especially true for men — men are dropping out as women are fully equal in shul. Reform youth organizations often have 5:1 or even 9:1 male:female participation.
These “blessings” from the reform and conservative movements…… Would they include intermarriage and assimilation?
There is delicious irony in having the Gemara quoted by a Reform Rabbi – when reform Judaism rejects the Oral Law!
Of course, he is right that we must love all Jews, and avoid even the appearance of sinas chinam.
The only problem with Rabbi Lamm praising Reform is another pasuk….’Midvar sheker tirhak’
It would behoove the rabbi to name one accomplishment other than a better than 50% intermarriage rate.
I am by far not a chasid of Rabbi Lamm. In fact, he and his type of American Jew are also in line for extinction over the next 50 years. We clearly see that Judaism in America is moving very quickly to the right. The number of “black hat” (chasidish and yeshivish) children is growing exponentially while the modern centrist orthodox population is decreasing. This Reform “rabbi” seems to have his head in the sand. While the Reform movement might have its so-called strengths, its major weakness is its complete legitimization of intermarriage. Within one generation the children of these intermarried couples become full fledged non-Jewish affiliation, lost to Jewish census taking forever. And these numbers are growing exponentially too. The Reform movement’s alleged strengths are not effective enough to hold onto its youth. The great strength of the Orthodox community has for generations been its education systems. The Reform movement has no such system of complete education. Their children all attend public schools where they will naturally meet non Jewish potential spouses. And given no real reason to marry Jewish, they don’t. 50 years and the Reform movement, for all intents and purposes, will be just about gone from the scene.
To be honest! The reform Jews are the hop!!! Why, because a lot of secular Jews told me, that the try to find a way into the the religious way, and they find it “only in the reform community” it can’t be extreme.
We should thank hashem for the reform and conservative movements that keep several million yiddin affiliated with yiddishkeit, albeit not the form of yiddishkeit we believe is the only “true” version. However, we are much better off holding on to these yiddeshe neshamas than losing than to intermarriage or conversion. Those who say we would be better of without them are guility of a “spiritual” rechitza and are a truly anti torah.
He does not believe in Torah 100% M’Sinai. Therefore when he keeps on saying, love for “your fellow Jew”, and not “your fellow human being”, he is being extremely immoral. He only understands Sinas Chinum when it’s directed at him.
I grew up in the Reform movement.
It has destroyed — yes, destroyed! — the lives of my brother and sister and many others, who never had the correct instruction to lead a successful, Jewish life because the Reform do not understand what the Torah is or even what a Jew is or how he or she should live.
I only found Torah through unexplained kindness from G-d via Aish HaTorah and Chabad. Why I deserved the chance to do teshuvah, I don’t know.
Love the “Reform” Jews (making sure they are, in fact, Jews) but despise the Reform movement.
it shows his ignorance of the torah, as usual which they have no inkling of, see gemmorah psochim its ‘ mitzvzh lisnoso’ .even when disregarding 1 mitzvah kolsheken when traitors to the whole torah. but, of course we dont hate them, just always pointing out their ignorance and how the original maskilim midled them
Without reform and conservative Judaism there would be even fewer affiliated jews. The notion that without reform and conservative judaism there would be less intermarriage and less assimilation is pure wishful thinking. With the execption of some convervative jews, the vast majority of people who are more comfotable in a reform or conservative shul would not turn to OJ.
he is quoting gemoras, what about plain old schulchan oruch 1.1– shabbos, davening,tznius,kasherus..of course we can not ignore them; but these “rabbies “
are not smart enough to figure out that they need help. Also, this coming from Norman Lam of YU fame which is a real hot bed of frumkeit (i spent many years there)
is also interesting
This guy represents a movement that has turned Torah into a farce. These phonies put on “a show” every shabbos morning like the evangelical preachers on TV. There is no life of Torah… there is no halocho… just whatever silly rules they make up to keep filling the seats in their performance hall. Worst of all, they have destroyed the roles of women in Torah life. These “liberal” women keep wanting to take on the roles of men more and more because they will never find satisfaction no matter how hard they try. Women have been given certain roles to play, that when abandoned, causes the family to fall apart. I find it heartbreaking to watch. The garbage that these reform “rabbis” fraudulently pass off as Torah is an abomination and should be publicly faught and rebuked at every possible turn.
Being involved in kiruv here in FL, I have encountered MANY famlies that attend the “saturday morning show” at the reform “theater”. So many of the kids that come my way come from families who eat chometz (and TREIF) on Pesach, don’t know what shabbos is, and have no sense of yiddishkeit in their homes. Their mothers have abandoned Torah in search of some liberal nonsense that has pushed their family into the sights of the xian missionaries. Many of these kids regularly attend church functions with their friends, and even attend church services on occasion.
When it comes to the “conservative” movement, I am fighting the pull of liberal Jews, who generally WANT to be Jewish… at least they go through the motions. When it comes to reform, I am fighing the ulra-liberal Jews who want to be more “American”, AND the xian missionaries who slowly bring them toward their church, AND the faithless parents who are happy to let their kids “choose their own religion”.
Misguided and wrong as it may be, the conservative movement at least TRIES to keep Jews marrying Jews. That seems to the primary goal. While they have tossed halocho to the side (inexcusable), I can work with this. Kiruv groups can work with a kid or even parents who at least WANT to be JEWS. With the reform movement, it is 10 times harder.
Only through strong, effective kiruv programs will we ever bring these yidden back. I know that many here just run from these yidden and treat them like goyim. However, most of them don’t even know or understand what any of it means. They DO, however, know how you look down on them… but they don’t understand why. Don’t ignore them… don’t push them further away… stand up and FIGHT for them. If you won’t… the xian missionaries will!
what a joke to compare to talmedai reb akivah and reb akivah whos whole torah the reform whatever mock!!!
Critisizing the reform movement has nothing to do with hatred. The movement doesn’t stand for anything, has no values and does not me’chayev its members with anything. The rabbi elequently quotes proverbs and chazal on the negative results of sina’as chinam. Newsflash: the same torah requires every fellow Jew to observe 613 commandments to which the rabbi and his shul members don’t really subscribe.
Talking about hatred? Members of the more observant denominations in Judaism don’t “hate” reform jews. They simply dissassociate from them. But it’s a known fact that the hatred and disparaging expressed by secular jews towards their “fellow” frum jews borders with hardcore anti-semitism.
There can be no analogy made between the destructve Reform jews and the holy Rabbi Akiva. The talmidim of Rabbi Akiva were deserving of kovod to one another. Reform Jews are not deserving of love and ahava from other jews. If a movement wants to destroy Judaism to its roots, it deserves no love, no respect, no kovod. Only derision and expulsion is the rule of the day for the reform movement. I am convinced that the Reform movement today is nothing but Jews who hate the religion becasue they have jewish names and are ashamed of it. It is called self-hating Jews.
the reform movement is mostly goy
The reform and conservative movements have destroyed 70% judism in America. nuff said
the reform movement is the cause for all the maladies in Judaism. They have diluted and compromised the standards of Judaism so that someone going to a reform temple these days knows nothing of putting on teffilin and keeping kosher. They have destroyed any hope for Jews to remain committed to our traditions as expressed in our Holy Torah.
Sinat Chinam?? The Torah says it is a MITZVA to hate and help kill the ‘rabbis” who have perverted our Holy Torah. They don’t be believe in the oral Torah??? Halevai
they don’t believe in the written Torah. They ridicule the sacrifices and practically every one of the thirteen ikrim as spelled out by the Rambam. They don’t believe in Moshiach the resurrection of the dead and on and on.
don’t get taken in by some smooth talker quoting from the Gemoroh.
ask him if he keeps the rules of taharas hamishpocho??? what percentage of his congregation even know what that is.
the reform movement is worst than Christianity because at least there you know who you are dealing with , in the reform movement you have an enemy from within disguising as some passable expression for Judaism.
reform and conservative movements are the kernel of evil in Judaism they continue to destroy any hope that Jews will recognize the values of our Holy Torah.
I grew up as a so called Reform Jew. Most of my friends from my childhood are either intermarried or have outright converted to the majority religion. You can take their collective knowledge of Judaism and fit it into a thimble. They have no real idea what is shabbos and what is kashrus. They have never heard of most of the Jewish holidays including such major ones as Shavuous. They can’t read Hebrew and have never heard of the Gemara. Many don’t fast on Yom Kippur. To put it into a nutshell, their authentically Jewish experience is nill. If you attend their temples, you will see mostly empty sanctuaries, with a small number of elderly women enjoying the religious services, often accompanied by a gentile choir and musicians.
Their rabbis teach them that the Torah is fake and that our forefathers were superstitious fools. Their kids have absolutely no chance of surviving as bona fide Jews as time marches on.
what a joke to qoute from ‘ sacred texts’ .if you dont belive its devine. what makes if sacred? #13 the problem is , its your undersatanding. lets take conversion..why cant some body just walk into anywhere and say i want to be jewish ,and bingo he’s jewish. if you dont believe in oral law the whole judaism is out .Take any of the 613 which the refoerm dont belive in anyway.
(1) We can and should recognize the shortcoming of the Reform movement, etc.
(2) But he is right that we should do it in a way that avoids sinas chinam against fellow Jews, which includes Reform Jews (although we don’t accept their geirus, they are not *all* converts).
“Just last week we observed Lag B’Omer”
The ra boy is lying. I grew up Reformed, the temple that I attended completely ignored Lag B’Omer, Tisha B’Av and Shemini Atzeres. They taught that Shavuos was a “fruit harvest” festival–no mention of Matan Torah.
down, boyz! These comments are way too dismissive. No one mentioned how respectfully and with what feinkeit the young man wrote his open letter. Not a debate, but a request for dialogue and clarity. Unfortunately, he’s a victim of the hype perpetrated on ignorant Yidden by the reform “institution” over 150 y ago. That doesn’t give any Jew the right to scorn him unless he’s picking a fight. He’s “educated,” and his books say in black and white, with sources, all the “chochmas” that he has studied and absorbed. He’s a tinok shnishpa’ah! No one told him his “torahs” are based on sheker — and why would he think so, if there are “sources” supporting all that kefirah?? I had a Torah partner who was very educated in these things and she kept bringing me (English) books to “show me” I’m wrong. When it wasn’t infuriating it was hilarious.
The point is, DON”T SCORN YIDDEN WHO ARE TRYING TO BE BNEI TORAH!
Teach them.
Reform and Conservative Jews have always been strong supporters of Israel (at a time when most Orthodox Jews were very anti-zionist). Reform and Conservative Jews have also helped provide a lot of funding for OJ institutions. Reform and Conservative Jews have also been strong supporters of civil rights and separation of church and state which have helped make the U.S. a place where OJ’s can thrive. They also paved the way for OJ’s in America.
We’ve got nothing better to do than hock with the reform movement???
That fight is over. When was the last time you heard of a shul taking down a mechitza? When was the last time you heard of a frum kid going off the derech to become reform??? They are checking their mezuzohs and running to mekubolim to find out why their kids are going ONTO the derech.
Genick shoin. Mir hoben a sach emeser problaimen.
We should not rejoice over the fact that an entire segment of klal yisroel is inter-marrying itself into disappearence. We should be crying over them like a person c”v who needs to amputate a limb of a child of sonaihem shel yisroel.
The Igros Moshe who had very strong words against reform rabbis never rejoiced over their coming downfall, even though it was obvious already in his life-time. (One can only speculate if he would consider today’s leadership of the reform movement as the same resho’im as were those of the earlier generations.)
This person who thinks he and his wife are sages deserve rachmanus and our tefilos, not our sinah. (This, btw, is what I thought Rabbi Lamm was expressing in his article, or perhaps I was hoping to see it so I saw it.)
I am sure he really believes it when he claims he believes in the ‘sacred texts’. (I’d love to have been able to ask him if the rabbi to whom he is married goes to mikveh and what do they do if she gets hagbah and he gets gelila when she is b’issur nidah.)
Let’s worry about where torah yiddishkeit will be in fifty years (in Yerusholayim, hopefully). We have no control or influence over the fate of the children of yiddin who practice the reform religion but we still can have a huge impact every day over the future of our children’s and grandchildren’s yiddishkeit.
Let’s stop wasting time fighting a battle that ended decades ago.
# 13 .. reform dont belive in the relevation on mt sini. so besides what you are comparing this hogwash ‘jews always disagreed (as if they diagreed on ikrum like shabbas taharas hamishpachs etc) they dont believe the whole yesod of what makes us jewish. reform
(mis) leaders dont even believe in diety same with conservative. worse than chritians who believe in diety
what’s the problem? Norman Lamm said the obvious, the Reform and Conservative movements are ideologically bankrupt and as such are facing extinction. Nu, nu? shoot the messenger? The “rabbi” from Reform is ALSO saying the obvious. Jews are Jews and we have a chiyuv of v’ahavta lorayacha k’mocha and ahavas chinam. The tragedy is the so-called leaders of these movements leading yidden astray, so that they think that there are “movements” or “streams” of Judaism and it is just a “choice”. It is really sad to hear many Jews think that the Torah observant community thinks that they are not Jews or somehow less than (I guess their so-called leaders tell them this?). Also sad when I hear such folks say things like: My cousin: He “converted to Orthodox Judaism”. Say what???? Hello…newsflash!!! We all stood together at Har Sinai (and also in lines for the ovens at Auschwitz, lo aleinu). I am blessed with wonderful neighbors, an older couple who are extremely Jewish in their worldview, but who are not yet observant. I have explained to my children that these lovely people who are powerful examples of tzedakah, chesed and wonderful baalei middos tovos express their Yiddishkeit as best as they understand it. Unfortunately, their understanding is limited by their lack of access to authentic Torah education. Still, they are Jews and so we love and respect them. The biggest tragedy for them is that their children married Jewish but their grandchildren have not!!! This is exactly what Norman Lamm was saying. He was stating the obvious and this is actually ahavas chinam in its truest form!
#32 you should worry more of what the (mis)leaders of these ism movements lead the children of avrohom, yitzchok and yackov (if their mothers are still jewish by birth)astrey and stop worring that a few readers will get insulted. millions are being led to assimilation by these whatever….read the comments by posters on this article former reform
From 5 million Jews in the USA maybe there are maybe 250,000 who are classified as observant. What a job you kiruv clowns have now!
why all the heat? can somone explain me whats going on here? i would love to leave a comment just dont understand whats so bad with this guys comment!!!!!!!!!!
#40 so have plenty christian groups, that doesnt make them practicing the jewish religion..by the way christiannity was one of the first jewish reform movemants
#42 and in which way is he trying to be bnei torah? by being oiver al kol hatorah . also as most reform are on thier way out by assimilation, its good chance his mother is not jewish so what are you worried about?
And let’s not forget the Reform embrace of lesbianism and homosexuality. They have a vast number of gay women rabbis. Sick!
Sorry to say there was no hate in rabbi lamms article he was just plain stating facts
We can love the jew but hate the philosophy.
He misses the point.whether we like it or not we will be saying Kaddish over the reform movement
mrs #49 … you all have the same ‘the point syndrome’. we are not hocking on individual non observant yid (if his mother is jewish)..we are pointing out to their (mis) leaders`who are ‘meisis umadiach’
Would you call Christianity, Christian Judaism? Of course not, Christianity originated from Judaism but the Christians abandoned the Jewish religion and formed a religion call Christianity. The Reform movement is no different. By calling it Reform Judaism you are legitimizing an ideology that is diametrically opposed to the 13 principals of the Rambam. The Reform movement is not a branch of Judaism. There is no such thing as a Reform Judaism. That term is an oxymoron. Judaism has a set of rules that start with Torah Shebcsav, followed by the strictures of Torah Shebalpeh and codified by the Shilchan Orach. A person has a Bchirah to do as much evil has he pleases. There is no Sanhedren to enforce the Torah. But we should not lend the Reform movement any credence by calling it Judaism. They are Jews if born from a Jewish mother but their religion has nothing to do with Judaism.
I was raised MO, when i got married 20+ years ago to a chasid, my parents reformed friends said, “I would rather my kid be on drugs then to be ultra-orthodox”
It still amazes me that people can think that way.
I was raised MO, when i got married 20+ years ago to a chasid, my parents reformed friends said, “I would rather my kid be on drugs then to be ultra-orthodox”
It still amazes me that people can think that way.
#57 helavai you should have 1/10 ehrlich children and einiklech c’y like i have mr reform monsey man. you havent replied ntelligent retort.looks like i just barrirt your gaiveh
I grew up in the conservative movement. I went to sunday school, attended high holiday services once a year and had my “bar-mitzvah” at 13. That was it for Judaism until my last few years in college. Of the 30-40 kids who attended the Sunday school… the kids either: married a non-Jewish spouse or are single. Only one other kid became Orthodox. None of these kids kept up Conservative Judaism. Of our family friends, four famlies, 7 kids: none of the kids married Jewish or affliated with any movement.
Frum people who dont grow up in these movements have trouble understanding the true spiritual devastation that these movements do to thier members.
Dont be decieved by the honey that comes from the mouths of the clergy of these movements (sinat hinam etc.) and accept these movements. Its lies all of it and if you read the rants of thier clergy in Jpost and elsewhere it is filled with terrible lies, unfounded accusations and assumptions against Orthodox people.
Reach out to the individual Jewish members of these groups. At this point, most of the members are Gentile. For the Jewish members, give compassion, a smile, some divrei Torah. On a deep level, they do identify with Orthodox Jews as a standard for Jewish practice and will respond positively to positve overtures.
Dont blow these precious neshamos off. Somewhere in the distant past, there was a frumme alter Bubby and Zaide who shed tears and said Tehillim when thier sons and daughters went of the derech in the golde medinah.
>what a joke to qoute from ‘ sacred texts’ .if you dont belive its devine
Haven’t you ever opened a Gemara?He’s quoting the sacred texts “L’sheetuscha”
#67 we point out how they are mocking the torah and you dont have an intelligent retort so the only adjective your kind have is ‘hatred’. and what a joke, you say ‘they know more torah than any so called ‘godel’ so what does that make them . ehrliche yidden?!. the pope also knows a lot of talmud..you know, a lot of rebukes are so klotzy, its unbelievable
#67 regarding your misplaced sinas chinom see #19
# 68 there is a reason for that attitude but its to long ‘toireh’ to print
#72 …whether the ‘meiri’ stated so or not,he’s applying to the wrong ituationlike all those who come with sinas chinon when it does not apply here (..and ‘hinom’?) (incidently,if they dont practice any of the 613 why are they kanoim when it comes to ‘sinas chinom?