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Newtown Square, PA - Judges: No Bible Reading at Kindergarten Show and Tell

Published on: June 1, 2009 06:05 PM
By:  AP
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Newtown Square, PA - A U.S. court says a kindergartner’s mother cannot read Scripture during “Show and Tell,” even if the Bible is the boy’s favorite book.

Today’s ruling is a victory for the Marple Newtown School District in suburban Philadelphia.

The 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals says the school’s decision does not violate First Amendment rights given the nonpublic nature of the classroom and the tender age of the children.

The mother, Donna Kay Busch, argues the students heard stories related to Passover, Christmas and other religious holidays.

The appeals court says there is a “significant difference” between identifying those holidays and reading from Scripture.


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1

 Jun 01, 2009 at 08:12 PM Anonymous Says:

Keep the "scripture readings" in shul and church..don't make kids in schools have to listen to a "dvar torah" or reading from T'nach from their classmates.

2

 Jun 01, 2009 at 10:51 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #1  
Anonymous Says:

Keep the "scripture readings" in shul and church..don't make kids in schools have to listen to a "dvar torah" or reading from T'nach from their classmates.

Why not? Let them hear a little about the Creator, even if it is from the "New Testament". That's better than not hearing about a Creator at all.

3

 Jun 02, 2009 at 09:11 AM Gidon Ariel Says:

I am flabbergasted by this item.

Is the most published book in history off limits in a US kindergarten, as a Playboy magazine should be?

Or perhaps that magazine would not be prohibited, under the same first amendment?

Olam hafuch.

4

 Jun 02, 2009 at 10:33 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
Milhouse Says:

Why not? Let them hear a little about the Creator, even if it is from the "New Testament". That's better than not hearing about a Creator at all.

So also let them hear about Hari Krishna and radical Islam. Where do you draw the line?

5

 Jun 02, 2009 at 02:15 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #4  
Anonymous Says:

So also let them hear about Hari Krishna and radical Islam. Where do you draw the line?

Are there any parents clamouring to do that? And what makes those things worse than preventing them from hearing anything at all about the Creator?

6

 Jun 02, 2009 at 03:02 PM Heah Says:

Reply to #3  
Gidon Ariel Says:

I am flabbergasted by this item.

Is the most published book in history off limits in a US kindergarten, as a Playboy magazine should be?

Or perhaps that magazine would not be prohibited, under the same first amendment?

Olam hafuch.

Before you go on about that magazine, when's the last time you saw one?. It has changed a lot and now it's from the better magazines.

7

 Jun 02, 2009 at 05:30 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:

Reply to #2  
Milhouse Says:

Why not? Let them hear a little about the Creator, even if it is from the "New Testament". That's better than not hearing about a Creator at all.

As a Jewish child in public school back in the '50s, I was very uncomfortable (to put it mildly) when the "Lord's Prayer" was read or when any othe overtly Christian observances were made. the courts are right about this.

8

 Jun 02, 2009 at 06:54 PM PMO Says:

This does not belong in a public school. In many public schools, yidden make up a very small percentage (sometimes one or two in a class... if ANY). How are these young yidden supposed to feel when the xian book is read in class as if that is what is "normal". It makes them feel "abnormal" and creates a desire to read that book in order to fit in.

Public schools are their to teach secular studies. That's it! Keep this xian garbage out of the public schools!

9

 Jun 02, 2009 at 06:36 PM Jeremiah says Says:

"It has changed a lot and now it's from the better magazines."

Rather: we've changed a lot.

10

 Jun 02, 2009 at 11:27 PM tzoorba Says:

Reply to #8  
PMO Says:

This does not belong in a public school. In many public schools, yidden make up a very small percentage (sometimes one or two in a class... if ANY). How are these young yidden supposed to feel when the xian book is read in class as if that is what is "normal". It makes them feel "abnormal" and creates a desire to read that book in order to fit in.

Public schools are their to teach secular studies. That's it! Keep this xian garbage out of the public schools!

This is certainly not a Torah point of view. As a matter of fact, it is not the point of view of the founding fathers.

The Torah would want people of all religions to learn about the existence of a G-d. In fact, Rav Shimon Schwab z"l said that one of the positive impacts of Yiddishkeit on the world was the development of Xtianity and Islam since these religions monotheism was much better than the multi god paganism that existed before. Even though we fell that Judaism is the true religion, these religions are much closer to the truth than paganism of the de facto atheism that rules public schooling.

The founding fathers were very religious and would have been aghast had they seen the way their concept of not forcing a dominant religion devolved into no religion allowed.

This false doctrine of separation of church and state which was not in the original constitution has beel largely bolstered by atheists and misguided liberal Jews.

Johnny has 2 mommies is allowed but the Bible isn't. This is a perversion.

11

 Jun 03, 2009 at 08:30 PM PMO Says:

Reply to #10  
tzoorba Says:

This is certainly not a Torah point of view. As a matter of fact, it is not the point of view of the founding fathers.

The Torah would want people of all religions to learn about the existence of a G-d. In fact, Rav Shimon Schwab z"l said that one of the positive impacts of Yiddishkeit on the world was the development of Xtianity and Islam since these religions monotheism was much better than the multi god paganism that existed before. Even though we fell that Judaism is the true religion, these religions are much closer to the truth than paganism of the de facto atheism that rules public schooling.

The founding fathers were very religious and would have been aghast had they seen the way their concept of not forcing a dominant religion devolved into no religion allowed.

This false doctrine of separation of church and state which was not in the original constitution has beel largely bolstered by atheists and misguided liberal Jews.

Johnny has 2 mommies is allowed but the Bible isn't. This is a perversion.

So you would risk sacrificing one or two Jewish children to xianity in order to let them read their book of nonsense in public schools? Show me how that fits into Torah.

Secondly, I don't know where you got the idea that the founding fathers were "religious" is a farce. Thomas Jefferson (you know, the guy who wrote the Declaration of Independence), Benjamin Franklin and James Madison (to name a few) were against all forms of organized religion.

Jefferson wrote often about his distaste for "religion", and considered himself a believer in H" but not in the organized religion of the day (he even came up with his own version of the xian bible that removed all references to jxxxx). He coined the term "separation of church and state" during his presidential bid. He was also one of the main players behind the Bill Of Rights (with James Madison).

Jefferson never would have supported religion being brought into public schools.

Where does it say "no religion allowed"? I see xianity all over public spaces! Heck, they are even putting jxxxx on a license plate here in FL!

I suggest you go out and learn a bit of history before you make silly claims about the founders of this country.

12

 Jun 04, 2009 at 04:00 AM steve Says:

I just read an article about this by debbie schlussel (the conservative jew who has her own website). i encourage people to read it and see if they caught her manipulation of the event like i did. she begins her short article "i guess kindergarteners can't listen to stuff.......from christians and jews" and then goes on to state that if the reading was from the koran (the central muslim book), it would have been fine.

why would she lump jews and christians in the same opening sentence as being victims when no jew was reading from the talmud and being told they couldn't read from the talmud? i read a bit about her bio and she basically is extremely anti-islam and even more so pro-jewish and pro-israel which may explain why she decided to capitalize on an event were christians were victims by grouping jews in the victim group as well. for all i know (and if anybody knows this, please let me know), but does anybody know the religious background of the person that put the brakes on the mother reading from the bible in the first place? i ask because in massachusetts where i am from, we have a giant christmas tree in the center of the 'boston yard' and to make a long story short, you are not allowed anymore to advertise the word 'christmas' in print on any advertisement that involves the christmas tree for various events, and many of the people that made this condition were in fact prominent, wealth jewish americans in and around boston.

in regards to kaufman, i see how a prayer could make you feel uncomfortable when that is in fact not what you believe in, however i think there's a difference between something that is done every day (and is a part of the daily school itinerary) and a show-and-tell event where a parent or child has 5 or 10 minutes to bring a piece of who they are into the classroom and talk about it - they dynamics are totally different. would you agree?






13

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