New York - Orthodox Community Raises Grave Concern About Child Care Vouchers Proposed Elimination |
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New York - A meeting convened by Agudath Israel of America on June 2 brought together city government officials and administrators of yeshivos throughout New York City to discuss the proposed elimination of a city program than benefits needy parents in the city’s Orthodox community to the tune of over $15 million a year.
The program provides child care vouchers to parents of school-age children if certain criteria are met. Under “Priority 7” of the program, vouchers are provided to families where one parent is working full time and the other faces a substantial degree of social difficulty without child care assistance.
With its often large families and particular financial challenges, the city’s Orthodox community has been the main beneficiary of the Priority 7 category. Some 2000 child care vouchers, worth approximately $15 million dollars to their recipients, have been distributed yearly to parents in heavily Orthodox parts of New York. Now, however, Priority 7 is slated for the dustbin, essentially eliminated from Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s proposed budget.
Agudath Israel called the meeting to apprise school administrators of the looming threat of Priority 7’s elimination; to discuss the issue with them and with members of the City Council and their representatives; and to formulate strategies for seeking to head off the crisis. Nearly 100 principals and administrators were in attendance.
Councilmembers Bill De Blasio and Simcha Felder were present as well and addressed the crowd, as did Agudath Israel’s executive vice president, Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zwiebel; Agudath Israel’s vice president for community affairs, Rabbi Shmuel Lefkowitz; and Rabbi Yeruchim Shapiro, the principal of Bais Yaakov of Borough Park. Also present
were representatives of New York City Comptroller William C. Thompson, Assemblyman Dov Hikind and Councilmembers David I. Weprin and David Yassky.
At the meeting, Agudath Israel distributed to the yeshiva administrators copies of letters intended to be shared with parents of their students. The letters, addressed to Mayor Bloomberg and City Council Speaker Christine Quinn, respectfully but strongly object to the planned elimination of Priority 7. The goal, Rabbi Lefkowitz said, is to deliver thousands of the missives to the city officials.
Other strategic options discussed included a face-to-face meeting with the Mayor and he possibility of a rally at City Hall.
Said Rabbi Zwiebel: “We hope that if we bring the Mayor’s and Speaker’s attention to the fact that the elimination of Priority 7 will have a disproportionate effect on a particular segment of the city’s population – us – they will reconsider and find a way to let whatever cuts are absolutely necessary be distributed fairly among all priority groups.”
“This issue is urgent,” he continued. The budget is likely to be finalized in the next weeks. And so it is imperative that if we are going to mobilize a grass-roots effort to let the Mayor and Speaker know how much this will hurt our community – and how unfair it is – we do it now.”
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Read Comments (61) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 02, 2009 at 06:28 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Wake up people !
2
Jun 02, 2009 at 06:31 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
This is what happens when people get addicted to govt funds
3
Jun 02, 2009 at 06:41 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Anyone has a number where we can call in?
4
Jun 02, 2009 at 06:41 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Bloomberg at work. Have no fear.......there's more to come.This man must go.
5
Jun 02, 2009 at 07:07 PM Dag Says:Report as Inappropriate
100 principals. Threaten money and we come out in droves. Threaten children's lives, and we sit by silently. For shame.
6
Jun 02, 2009 at 07:17 PM working father Says:Report as Inappropriate
Its about time for these people to loose it
It will create a even playing field where everybody pays the same I am sick of seeing my hard earned money pay for these people. yes its a pity on them but so am I what about all the things I have to pay for like health ins,grocery,rent,tuition, but they get Medicaid,food stamps,section 8 and more
So thank you mayor Mike for looking out for us middle class people
4 more years with hashems help
7
Jun 02, 2009 at 07:17 PM yidel Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Bloomberg at work. Have no fear.......there's more to come.This man must go. ”
this bloomy makes dinkins smell like a rose
8
Jun 02, 2009 at 07:15 PM working father Says:Report as Inappropriate
Its about time for these people to loose it
It will create a even playing field where everybody pays the same I am sick of seeing my hard earned money pay for these people. yes its a pity on them but so am I what about all the things I have to pay for like health ins,grocery,rent,tuition, but they get Medicaid,food stamps,section 8 and more
So thank you mayor Mike for looking out for us middle class people
4 more years with hashems help
9
Jun 02, 2009 at 07:32 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Anyone has a number where we can call in? ”
311
10
Jun 02, 2009 at 07:29 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Its about time for these people to loose it
It will create a even playing field where everybody pays the same I am sick of seeing my hard earned money pay for these people. yes its a pity on them but so am I what about all the things I have to pay for like health ins,grocery,rent,tuition, but they get Medicaid,food stamps,section 8 and more
So thank you mayor Mike for looking out for us middle class people
4 more years with hashems help
”
i couldn't agree with u with more......what bothers me even more is that while they get all this government funding mainly section 8, i can barely afford to pay my rent, never mind even thinking of going to the country.......while they all get to go away for 9 weeks paying close to 5 or 6 grand for a bungalow while i stay home where my husband and i slave away to pay the rent and tuition
yes....i think its time to even out the fields here!!
11
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:14 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Its a terible chillul hashem that a goy will read that a gov program was tailormade for our oilam -- not good.
The goyim should feel that we are givers to society -- not takers.
12
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:12 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
100 Principals for only $15 million dollars .... I didnt know there were 100 mosdos in NYC.
I wonder how many of these programs are being run legally (legally the school must charge the same tuition as it would if the school didnt recieve the voucher, Hm Hm...) with all the various regulations.
Try cuting a program and people will turn out in droves but .......
13
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:09 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Vouchers, section 8, medicaid, food stamps -- can someone tell me why I am working to make a living and pay my bills?
The answer is very simple: I work because I am a person.
14
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:08 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
The City has not given out new vouchers for years unless you go on welfare -- which I hear is what people did, go on welfare for month and then once you are already on welfare with the vouchers, they wont take them away.
Only kids on vouchers for years can stay on the program.
15
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:06 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
are you my wife?
16
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:06 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Section 8 Landlords in our neigborhoods get more from these section 8 than from non-section 8 tenants. This is because for a 4 bedroom apartment (5 - 6 kids) section 8 pays about $2,000 (plus any additional rent the LL can get from the tenant) whereas non-section 8 tenants pay less!! The whole reason rents in our neighborhoods and other places have risen so much is because section 8 raises every year and it costs us people - that pay for our rent - a raise to the Landlord also.
Anyone ever seen someone go OFF section 8, its like an alcoholic with alcohol - once on section 8 you just cannot go off it, because its free money and together with food stamps (that just got a 13% increase) there is no reason to work (unless you work off the books).
Once on Section 8, you are on it forever. I have a freind that has been on Section 8 for 23 years - yes twenty three years.. No wonder section 8 is not taking new applicants for budgetary reasons!!
17
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:03 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
To hard working father: Not only can't you spell or construct an intelligent sentence, you're mean spirited and an embarrassment to our orthodox commmunity. What type of person rejoices in the denial of poverty funds to the needy, funds that end up sustaining our struggling educational institutions.
18
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:00 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ i couldn't agree with u with more......what bothers me even more is that while they get all this government funding mainly section 8, i can barely afford to pay my rent, never mind even thinking of going to the country.......while they all get to go away for 9 weeks paying close to 5 or 6 grand for a bungalow while i stay home where my husband and i slave away to pay the rent and tuition
yes....i think its time to even out the fields here!! ”
couldn't agree with you more! I cannot stand constantly being asked "so where are you for the summero?". I'm sweating it in NYC whilst you are going up to the "country" for two months, buying your food with food stamps, and buying the rest with "cash"!!!
19
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:00 PM yeshiva admin Says:Report as Inappropriate
Why don't we all register in public school so bloomberg will see that we need the funds
20
Jun 02, 2009 at 07:59 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
You people dont seem to realize that the "after school" care pays more than tuition that many of us pay. For example for 3rd graders the after school program pays more than Seven thousand dollars I am told, which is more than the regular tuition in Brooklyn. Plus the parents pay some (albeit less because they have these vouchers) and the school makes out very well on this deal.
The City also has program for kndergarten and pre-school which pays the schools very, very well.
21
Jun 02, 2009 at 07:53 PM Its time we show them how much money they are saving... Says:Report as Inappropriate
it is time we get together, wait till the last day possible, then we all sign up for public school. The city will go into crisis (if we get together will all private schools, not only jewish ones) and maybe they will stop complaining about the small money!
22
Jun 02, 2009 at 07:47 PM YitzchokM Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Its about time for these people to loose it
It will create a even playing field where everybody pays the same I am sick of seeing my hard earned money pay for these people. yes its a pity on them but so am I what about all the things I have to pay for like health ins,grocery,rent,tuition, but they get Medicaid,food stamps,section 8 and more
So thank you mayor Mike for looking out for us middle class people
4 more years with hashems help
”
do you even know what Vouchers are? You "tax payer" should be happy with Vouchers! You get to chose which school to send your child, using your tax money!
What does "they get Medicaid,food stamps,section 8 and more " have to do with anything?
SELF HATING JEW!
23
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:41 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ do you even know what Vouchers are? You "tax payer" should be happy with Vouchers! You get to chose which school to send your child, using your tax money!
What does "they get Medicaid,food stamps,section 8 and more " have to do with anything?
SELF HATING JEW! ”
why is this person a self hating jew? just because they havn't fallen for the biggest tayvah of this generation (money) and they are HONEST? for some reason honesty is no longer an important factor in being a frum eidel yid. as long as you shake back and forth in davening, you can be dishonest in business, personal and governmant dealings? are ethics, morals and being decent people left out of what they teach at school and at home in NYC?
24
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:41 PM I pay my tuition Says:Report as Inappropriate
"vouchers are provided to families where one parent is working full time and the other faces a substantial degree of social difficulty without child care assistance"
So pray tell how can so many hundreds of parents be allowed on this program if one has to have substantial degree of social difficulty? I see many people out there with one parent taking care of them -- so pray tell who has social difficulty? And when it comes to shidduchim do they tell their mechutonim that they have social difficulties? Or only b'noigeah the City to get a program they have a "substatial degree of social difficulties".
This program is one big gneivah if the criteria is to have substantial difficulties (without the child care assistance) because 99% of these kids come from normal, healthy families and just looking to get a tuition for free. I wonder if the parents have to certify that they will have substantial degree of social difficulties before they get this program.
The City pays enough from this after school program that the parents pay almost nothing for tuition (which is illegal because the regulations are that the parents must pay the same tuition with or without this program)
And do you know this program is an after-school program (officially), when most kids go home they stay in school to play etc. (and get home at about 6.30 to 7pm or 7.30pm) I personally prefer to have my kids home a little more!
On the hand: I see seriously problematic problems arising from certain kids that their parents are really moiser nefesh, with a big family, to take care of the kids. and give them quality time at home, a good supper etc. and these are the people to congratulate. And kids (and their parents) with ADD and learning disablities could do with more help from the City.
Whereas these people that have the afterschool program, they leave their kids to come home in time to go to bed should be ashamed of themselves -- they may as well put the kids up for adoption!!
I actually am happy to have the zchus to pay my tuition and do homework with my kids. And at the same time not be toileh on Myor Bloomberg to pay my tuition bills.
25
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:39 PM G4 Commission Says:Report as Inappropriate
It has been too long that we have let our Yeshivas down. Every Public school student costs the City $14,000! Yes Fourteen Thousand Dollars! There are 75,000 students in frum Mosdos across the city. There is no reason that schools don't get a large amount of money for every student. If this after school program is eliminated, we should all register our kids in public school for the upcoming school year. You will see how fast this money is restored.
26
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:33 PM kivi Says:Report as Inappropriate
I agree there are a lot of people that abuse the system but there are a lot more that really need the help especially in these times.
27
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:30 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Once and for all these frumme ganavim should simply stop pushing out more babies they cannot afford and cannot support and then demanding tzadakah from the rest of us hard working yidden and goyim. Its about time the rabbonim said that its no mitzvah to have children you cannot afford and "rely on hashem" (codewords for welfare and charity) to take care of them.
28
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:24 PM Charlie Hall Says:Report as Inappropriate
On this very site, on this very day, a lot of commenters are complaining about a sales tax increase. Well, if you want programs like this, you have to pay the taxes to provide the revenue for the program!
29
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:45 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ do you even know what Vouchers are? You "tax payer" should be happy with Vouchers! You get to chose which school to send your child, using your tax money!
What does "they get Medicaid,food stamps,section 8 and more " have to do with anything?
SELF HATING JEW! ”
#22: The problem is that we hard-working people dont get the vouchers, only the cheats that claim social difficulty and only one of the parents work (how any people do you know like that these days????) get the vouchers etc? And our taxes pay for these vouchers and we cant get them.
And you say we should be happy when poor people get these programs, sorry to tell you I would be agreeable to support really poor people not ......
30
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:52 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Wow, a program so that the kids can play in school after school hours. Only in America.
In my days school was to work hard and then go home and do more work. I guess this is the generation. Only in America.
31
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:51 PM Dag Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ It has been too long that we have let our Yeshivas down. Every Public school student costs the City $14,000! Yes Fourteen Thousand Dollars! There are 75,000 students in frum Mosdos across the city. There is no reason that schools don't get a large amount of money for every student. If this after school program is eliminated, we should all register our kids in public school for the upcoming school year. You will see how fast this money is restored. ”
Wont work. The city knows its a bluff.
32
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:50 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ "vouchers are provided to families where one parent is working full time and the other faces a substantial degree of social difficulty without child care assistance"
So pray tell how can so many hundreds of parents be allowed on this program if one has to have substantial degree of social difficulty? I see many people out there with one parent taking care of them -- so pray tell who has social difficulty? And when it comes to shidduchim do they tell their mechutonim that they have social difficulties? Or only b'noigeah the City to get a program they have a "substatial degree of social difficulties".
This program is one big gneivah if the criteria is to have substantial difficulties (without the child care assistance) because 99% of these kids come from normal, healthy families and just looking to get a tuition for free. I wonder if the parents have to certify that they will have substantial degree of social difficulties before they get this program.
The City pays enough from this after school program that the parents pay almost nothing for tuition (which is illegal because the regulations are that the parents must pay the same tuition with or without this program)
And do you know this program is an after-school program (officially), when most kids go home they stay in school to play etc. (and get home at about 6.30 to 7pm or 7.30pm) I personally prefer to have my kids home a little more!
On the hand: I see seriously problematic problems arising from certain kids that their parents are really moiser nefesh, with a big family, to take care of the kids. and give them quality time at home, a good supper etc. and these are the people to congratulate. And kids (and their parents) with ADD and learning disablities could do with more help from the City.
Whereas these people that have the afterschool program, they leave their kids to come home in time to go to bed should be ashamed of themselves -- they may as well put the kids up for adoption!!
I actually am happy to have the zchus to pay my tuition and do homework with my kids. And at the same time not be toileh on Myor Bloomberg to pay my tuition bills. ”
#24 said it best. we should leave these programs for people really suffering, for people with real problem children like ADD or ADHD, and those that can take care of their kids: best is the kids should come home at the right time and do homework and eat supper like regular kids and get off these crazy after school programs or any programs for that matter.
The mosdos must be making alot of money if they are making such a huge tumult to get these $15m back. I wonder why????
33
Jun 02, 2009 at 09:39 PM Charles Hall Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Wont work. The city knows its a bluff. ”
And the truth is, the city can handle another 75,000 kids. Remember that it already has 1,100,000 kids. It would just increase class sizes, rent trailers, hire more teachers, and bus kids from Jewish neighborhoods to non-Jewish neighborhoods. It might even rent old yeshiva buildings and turn them into public schools.
34
Jun 02, 2009 at 09:27 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ This is what happens when people get addicted to govt funds ”
its in the constitution that the government souled provide an education for all children and they are collecting heavy property tax for that.
35
Jun 02, 2009 at 09:56 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ its in the constitution that the government souled provide an education for all children and they are collecting heavy property tax for that.
”
What does anything you say have to do with a subsidy program geared to poor yideshe families who have children they cannot afford. You will say anything to excuse this irresponsible behavior which takes money out of my pocket to support others. I give enough tzadakah already (voluntarily). I don't need Bloomberg taking more money and giving it away.
36
Jun 02, 2009 at 10:26 PM liepa Says:Report as Inappropriate
If 75,000 kids ba"h enrolled in the public school system @ $14k per child this would cost the State/City $10,50,000,000.00 (10 billion, 50 million) annually vs 15,000,000.00 (15 million ) annually for vouchers. I think New York is getting a bargain, right now.
37
Jun 02, 2009 at 10:27 PM Rachmonus please... Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ i couldn't agree with u with more......what bothers me even more is that while they get all this government funding mainly section 8, i can barely afford to pay my rent, never mind even thinking of going to the country.......while they all get to go away for 9 weeks paying close to 5 or 6 grand for a bungalow while i stay home where my husband and i slave away to pay the rent and tuition
yes....i think its time to even out the fields here!! ”
In reply to #10 - I am sorry that you are having such a hard time with parnassa. May Hashem help you very soon. But please realize that this "saved" money will only go to help pay for immigrant health care, welfare payments, union subsidies, and subsidizing treife and tumah art sciences etc etc.
The loss of that $$$ will literally kill our Mosdos, that are already now in dire straits, being that people, like you, can not afford to pay full tuitions.
Now is the time for a little Achdus, in trying to help save the voucher program.
Bloomberg has got to go, or he will drain every penny out of the pockets of the middle-class. Enough is enough!
38
Jun 02, 2009 at 11:02 PM Milhouse Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What does anything you say have to do with a subsidy program geared to poor yideshe families who have children they cannot afford. You will say anything to excuse this irresponsible behavior which takes money out of my pocket to support others. I give enough tzadakah already (voluntarily). I don't need Bloomberg taking more money and giving it away. ”
Then vote against socialist politicians, and campaign to cut taxpayer-supported welfare. And meanwhile do whatever you can to minimise the tax you pay, either legally or with a low risk of getting caught. But you have no business telling other yidden not to have the children that Hashem sends them.
39
Jun 02, 2009 at 10:59 PM Milhouse Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Once and for all these frumme ganavim should simply stop pushing out more babies they cannot afford and cannot support and then demanding tzadakah from the rest of us hard working yidden and goyim. Its about time the rabbonim said that its no mitzvah to have children you cannot afford and "rely on hashem" (codewords for welfare and charity) to take care of them. ”
Except that it is a mitzvah, there is no heter for birth control for purely economic reasons, and with each child Hashem creates the means to support it. Sometimes He gives those means directly to the parents, and sometimes He gives them to you for you to pass them on, but either way they come from Him.
40
Jun 02, 2009 at 10:57 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Its about time for these people to loose it
It will create a even playing field where everybody pays the same I am sick of seeing my hard earned money pay for these people. yes its a pity on them but so am I what about all the things I have to pay for like health ins,grocery,rent,tuition, but they get Medicaid,food stamps,section 8 and more
So thank you mayor Mike for looking out for us middle class people
4 more years with hashems help
”
u jelous ninkompuk u may have a hard time I agree 100 % but them loosing vouchers just doesn't help u
41
Jun 02, 2009 at 10:43 PM shmiel glassman Says:Report as Inappropriate
A FEW POINTS:
1. we are talking about 2000 vouchers out of 80,000 children kein yirbu (2/3of the program)
2. the total expense is 14 million (2/3) out of a state budget of ??????billion
3.the addl. amt this adds up to in taxes for an avg family is a fraction of a percent
4.the overwhelming majority of the families receiving vouchers are truly eligible & life would be unbearable w/o it
5. i did run the "kids" part of the program for 2 years (including supper,sports ,woodworking,homework...) it was amazing
6. a suggestion would be to compromise & pay $ 2500 per student , allow another 1000 kids on the program & still be able to cut 5 million
7. the fact that a family with healthy working parents cannot cover their bills is indeed a real problem but your tuition is not higher because there are kids on vouchers its rather lehefech,, vehamaven yavin
yehi ratzon , that we should be able to support torah mibifnim & not need matnos basar vedam
42
Jun 02, 2009 at 10:39 PM We Need Action Now Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ it is time we get together, wait till the last day possible, then we all sign up for public school. The city will go into crisis (if we get together will all private schools, not only jewish ones) and maybe they will stop complaining about the small money! ”
We should really get together and enroll all yeshiva kids into the public school system show them once and for all that we mean business they are getting away with murder millions of dollars they save then they go out and hike our water bills bombard us with tickets Enough is Enough Bloomy pack ur BAGS
43
Jun 03, 2009 at 12:31 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
Guys calm down, No 1. No one will get scared if there will be .75 of a percent more in the public schools. 2. The bloggers here that are making money called middle class or upper class should just keep in mind that no one knows their future and G-D forbid you loose your job, these words you wrote here will haunt you down, and for the MENUVAL here who's making fun of having a lot of kids, I can only say one thing watch your language, because no ehrlicher ruv will listen your words and not slap you in your face, hpow you dare talk that way, who are you to feed your kids, hashem is the one that gives life he's the one that gives food from the smallest insects to the biggest animals watch your language.
44
Jun 03, 2009 at 07:06 AM elchonon Says:Report as Inappropriate
You all have it wrong!!!!! Vouchers should be for ALL families regardless of income! You are funding public school education, essentioaly the city is giving you credit to spend in private schools since your saving them $. At least that's how
I want it to work!
45
Jun 03, 2009 at 07:02 AM Dag Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Then vote against socialist politicians, and campaign to cut taxpayer-supported welfare. And meanwhile do whatever you can to minimise the tax you pay, either legally or with a low risk of getting caught. But you have no business telling other yidden not to have the children that Hashem sends them. ”
Low risk of getting caught? You mean Genaivah? UNREAL.
46
Jun 03, 2009 at 06:59 AM Dag Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ If 75,000 kids ba"h enrolled in the public school system @ $14k per child this would cost the State/City $10,50,000,000.00 (10 billion, 50 million) annually vs 15,000,000.00 (15 million ) annually for vouchers. I think New York is getting a bargain, right now. ”
Not true. There would be an increase in money spent, but the per pupil expenditure would go down AND NY would likely get more Federal money.
Things like this have happened before. The State of Texas had to absorb thousands of kinds from New Orleans after the Hurricane.
Don't forget, IF the Frum community actually pulled this off, the yeshiva system would lose all its tuition money. They would have to fire all of their staff, leaving thousands without a parnassah. They would also default on their mortgages. This idea is not well thought out.
Don’t ask the Government to bail out our failing school system. Let’s fix it ourselves.
47
Jun 02, 2009 at 10:11 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ What does anything you say have to do with a subsidy program geared to poor yideshe families who have children they cannot afford. You will say anything to excuse this irresponsible behavior which takes money out of my pocket to support others. I give enough tzadakah already (voluntarily). I don't need Bloomberg taking more money and giving it away. ”
thats right! if i as a workimg parent who does not get all of these programs, would not have to pay all of these high taxes, i would be able to donate more money to my childrens schools. i am sure many other parents in my boat would do the same.
48
Jun 03, 2009 at 07:26 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
#39 says there is no heter for economic reasons. But these vouchers were given out originally for social service reasons, in other words a parent who was not coping or overwhelmed and thus it was in the best interest of the child to be in the program. They had to be documented by a social worker that there was a family issue. So,, if a family is overwhelmed with having children too close together and are overwhelmedd and needs spacing, where are the rabbonim to encourage that tje families do not become dysfunctional. Families need to know they have options, having more kids does not make them frimmer
49
Jun 03, 2009 at 07:23 AM Charlie Hall Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ If 75,000 kids ba"h enrolled in the public school system @ $14k per child this would cost the State/City $10,50,000,000.00 (10 billion, 50 million) annually vs 15,000,000.00 (15 million ) annually for vouchers. I think New York is getting a bargain, right now. ”
$14K is the average cost. The marginal cost is much, much smaller.
Vouchers are prohibited by the State Constitution. Change the State Constitution and we can talk.
50
Jun 03, 2009 at 08:16 AM We Must Vote For A New Mayor Says:Report as Inappropriate
When will you all realize that a billionaire mayor has zero understanding and feelings for middle class families who struggle to make ends meet and live here in NY where it's almost impossibile, we will be sucked out every penny if you vote for him again, it's time we all jewish people go out all together and make a major impact in the elections and vote for another candidate and be matzliach and let all of NY see what that we had enough of him and need Major Change here
51
Jun 03, 2009 at 08:45 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
#50 you are right. Because statistically Orthodox Jews do not vote, our communities are being overlooked. Why pay attention to us if we are so afraid of jury duty notices that we choose to not vote instead
52
Jun 03, 2009 at 08:44 AM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Anyone has a number where we can call in? ”
311,YOUR CITY COUNCELMAN
53
Jun 03, 2009 at 11:00 AM GO VOTE Says:Report as Inappropriate
Why are there so many frum jews who do not go out and vote???.
54
Jun 03, 2009 at 10:53 AM You are naive Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Its about time for these people to loose it
It will create a even playing field where everybody pays the same I am sick of seeing my hard earned money pay for these people. yes its a pity on them but so am I what about all the things I have to pay for like health ins,grocery,rent,tuition, but they get Medicaid,food stamps,section 8 and more
So thank you mayor Mike for looking out for us middle class people
4 more years with hashems help
”
The palying fields will never be even. If your school will loose a couple o' mil' from the program YOUR fees will go up not the other way around.
55
Jun 03, 2009 at 11:32 AM Common Sense Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Except that it is a mitzvah, there is no heter for birth control for purely economic reasons, and with each child Hashem creates the means to support it. Sometimes He gives those means directly to the parents, and sometimes He gives them to you for you to pass them on, but either way they come from Him. ”
Indeed, as my Rov has mentioned to me, Hashem creates the means to support each child. Who knows if one may not have gotten that raise, promotion, better job, etc. if they hadn't had another child? But your comment regarding "low risk of getting caught" is nothing short of ludicrous!! Is ganeivah suddenly muttar because the chance of Chillel Hashem is low? Here's a hint - it's still ganeiva!! Whether or not there's Chillel Hashem in addition. I'm told there are poskim who hold that someone working "off the book" doesn't necessarily have to report the income l'halacha. Reason is since the average person on the street (probably an 90%+ majority) would not report it, we aren't obligated to pay more than they do. But even these poskim can tell you that taking gov't assistance based on lack of *reported* income will be completely assur. So not to pay "extra" taxes voluntarily? Maybe ok (ask your own Rov!!). But take food stamps, medicaid, section 8, etc. based on a reported income of zero, is taking what you are not entitled to and hence pure ganeivah.
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Jun 03, 2009 at 12:41 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Once and for all these frumme ganavim should simply stop pushing out more babies they cannot afford and cannot support and then demanding tzadakah from the rest of us hard working yidden and goyim. Its about time the rabbonim said that its no mitzvah to have children you cannot afford and "rely on hashem" (codewords for welfare and charity) to take care of them. ”
whats wrong with you you think you will have more money by not having children. stupid comment by the way what are you pushing?
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Jun 03, 2009 at 12:37 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Its about time for these people to loose it
It will create a even playing field where everybody pays the same I am sick of seeing my hard earned money pay for these people. yes its a pity on them but so am I what about all the things I have to pay for like health ins,grocery,rent,tuition, but they get Medicaid,food stamps,section 8 and more
So thank you mayor Mike for looking out for us middle class people
4 more years with hashems help
”
tell mr. bloomberg to send out a few more traffic police to get some tickets one minute after the meeter runs out.
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Jun 03, 2009 at 12:36 PM HAGTBG Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ If 75,000 kids ba"h enrolled in the public school system @ $14k per child this would cost the State/City $10,50,000,000.00 (10 billion, 50 million) annually vs 15,000,000.00 (15 million ) annually for vouchers. I think New York is getting a bargain, right now. ”
liepa.
Your math is wrong.
First off, the number is $1 billion, and 50 million. You added on a zero.
Second, I'm willing to bet the person who first said per pupil public school tuition was $14,000 forgot to look up the number after factoring out special education. As many may know, a special ed child can cost over $100,000 a year and, generally, yeshivas do not deal with such students. I believe that eats up about 25% of the school budget in NY. So, if we lower the tuition by 25% to $10,500 that the total number for education of 75,000 private school students is $787 million. Considering, that you must add the $7,000 here plus other monies (like lunch, remedial education) etc.provided by the government, it does not look like the city costs would be much higher for the government and are probably cheaper overall.
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Jun 03, 2009 at 12:34 PM Anonymous Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Its about time for these people to loose it
It will create a even playing field where everybody pays the same I am sick of seeing my hard earned money pay for these people. yes its a pity on them but so am I what about all the things I have to pay for like health ins,grocery,rent,tuition, but they get Medicaid,food stamps,section 8 and more
So thank you mayor Mike for looking out for us middle class people
4 more years with hashems help
”
dont think that this will make you pay less money for anything. they will allwayz find a way for you tom pay more.
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Jun 03, 2009 at 09:32 PM Milhouse Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Low risk of getting caught? You mean Genaivah? UNREAL. ”
No, I mean protecting yourself from geneivah. I mean hiding things from the ganovim so they won't steal them.
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Jun 03, 2009 at 10:51 PM Milhouse Says:Report as Inappropriate
“ Indeed, as my Rov has mentioned to me, Hashem creates the means to support each child. Who knows if one may not have gotten that raise, promotion, better job, etc. if they hadn't had another child? But your comment regarding "low risk of getting caught" is nothing short of ludicrous!! Is ganeivah suddenly muttar because the chance of Chillel Hashem is low? Here's a hint - it's still ganeiva!! Whether or not there's Chillel Hashem in addition. I'm told there are poskim who hold that someone working "off the book" doesn't necessarily have to report the income l'halacha. Reason is since the average person on the street (probably an 90%+ majority) would not report it, we aren't obligated to pay more than they do. But even these poskim can tell you that taking gov't assistance based on lack of *reported* income will be completely assur. So not to pay "extra" taxes voluntarily? Maybe ok (ask your own Rov!!). But take food stamps, medicaid, section 8, etc. based on a reported income of zero, is taking what you are not entitled to and hence pure ganeivah. ”
Please point me to the comment where I said, implied, or indirectly hinted that anyone should do any such thing.