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New York - Survey Of State Senators Shows Gay Marriage Bill Will Fail |
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Twenty lawmakers tell NY1 that they would vote "yes" on the bill, with 15 either undecided or noncommittal. The measure would need 32 votes to pass.
According to the NY1 tally, if only four more undecided lawmakers oppose gay marriage, the bill would fail.
Among those who are undecided or undeclared are New York City Senators Hiram Monserrate of Queens, Carl Kruger of Brooklyn, Andrew Lanza of Staten Island, John Sampson of Brooklyn and Ruth Hassel-Thompson of The Bronx/Westchester.
The measure already passed the state Assembly and has the support of Governor David Paterson.
Here is the overall breakdown, with 32 votes needed to pass:
Would Vote "Yes" 20 (All Democrats)
Would Vote "No" 27 (22 Republicans, 5 Democrats)
Undecided 10 (6 Democrats, 4 Republicans)
Wouldn't Say 5 (4 Republicans, 1 Democrat)
Here is the breakdown by Senator:
Would vote "Yes"
Eric Adams, D-Brooklyn
Neil Breslin, D-Delmar
Martin Dilan, D-Brooklyn
Thomas Duane, D-Manhattan
Pedro Espada, D-Bronx
Craig Johnson, D-Nassau
Jeffrey Klein, D-Bronx/Westchester
Liz Krueger, D-Manhattan
Velmanette Montgomery, D-Brooklyn
Suzi Oppenheimer, D-Westchester
Kevin Parker, D-Brookyn
Bill Perkins, D-Manhattan
Diane Savino, D-Staten Island/Brooklyn
Eric Schneiderman, D-Manhattan/Bronx
Jose Serrano, D-Bronx/Manhattan
Malcolm Smith, D-Queens
Daniel Squadron, D-Brooklyn/Manhattan
Toby Ann Stavisky, D-Queens
Andrea Stewart-Cousins, D-Westchester
Antoine Thompson, D-Buffalo
Would vote "No"
Darrel Aubertine, D-Cape Vincent
John DeFrancisco, R-Syracuse
Ruben Diaz, D-Bronx
Hugh Farley, R-Niskayuna
John Flanagan, R-Suffolk
Charles Fuschillo, R-Nassau/Suffolk
Martin Golden, R-Brooklyn
Joseph Griffo, R-Rome
Shirley Huntley, D-Queens
William Larkin, R-Cornwall
Kenneth LaValle, R-Suffolk
Thomas Libous, R-Binghamton
Elizabeth Little, R-Queensbury
Carl Marcellino, R-Nassau/Suffolk
George Maziarz, R-Newfane
Michael Nozzolio, R-Seneca Falls
George Onorato, D-Queens
Frank Padavan, R-Queens/Bronx/Nassau
Michael Ranzenhofer, R-Amherst
Joseph Robach, R-Greece
Stephen Saland, R-Poughkeepsie
James Seward, R-Milford
Dean Skelos, R-Nassau
William Stachowski, D-Buffalo
Dale Volker, R-Depew
George Winner, R-Elmira
Catharine Young, R-Olean
Undecided
John Bonacic, R-Mt. Hope
Brian Foley, D-Suffolk
Ruth Hassel-Thompson, D-Bronx/Westchester
Owen Johnson, R-Suffolk
Carl Kruger, D-Brooklyn
Andrew Lanza, R-Staten Island
Roy McDonald, R-Saratoga
Hiram Monserrate, D-Queens
John Sampson, D-Brooklyn
David Valesky, D-Oneida
Wouldn't Say
Joseph Addabbo, D-Queens
James Alesi, R-East Rochester
Kemp Hannon, R-Nassau
Vincent Leibell, R-Westchester
Thomas Morahan, R-Rockland
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Read Comments (36) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 02, 2009 at 07:31 PM Anonymous Says:
That's great news!!! I'm happy to see that my senater isn't of the supportive team...
2
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:01 PM Anonymous Says:
BH, may all those shmutz laws fail, and may human respect and value prevail.
3
Jun 02, 2009 at 07:56 PM David Says:
Very disappointing. No lawmaker who has ever voted for marriage equality has lost a re-election bid. It's simply a matter of time. New Yorkers deserve full equality. Now is the time. Please, contact your Senator and ask them to vote YES for marriage equality.
4
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:21 PM real time Says:
May god help us if this bill passes the chron af will be to strong and this beautiful contry will go down the drain (if its not there ) thay.won't get the message till america will file for bankrupcy
5
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:25 PM Perele Says:
I'm all for a package deal: gay marriage and reformed divorce laws. New York has the worst divorce laws in the nation. If gays are getting married, they are also going to get divorced. It's time for change.
6
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:24 PM Anonymous Says:
At least all the jewish senators except for golden are on record as voting for the bill or are undecided...vat a shame that they couldn't get this passed in a progressive state like new york.
7
Jun 02, 2009 at 08:22 PM Charles Hall Says:
Sen. Thomas Duane claims that the votes are there to pass the bill:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/06/02/2009-06-02_progay_nups_pol_itll_pass.html
8
Jun 02, 2009 at 09:51 PM drei Says:
“ Very disappointing. No lawmaker who has ever voted for marriage equality has lost a re-election bid. It's simply a matter of time. New Yorkers deserve full equality. Now is the time. Please, contact your Senator and ask them to vote YES for marriage equality. ”
We are all for" marriage equality "but MARRIAGE is for men with women
9
Jun 02, 2009 at 09:59 PM Anonymous Says:
Shame on squadron who only got elected cuz of orthodox jews in williamsburg! This how you pay us back, please vote NO!!! Or by your next election we will vote NO on you!!!
10
Jun 02, 2009 at 10:44 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Very disappointing. No lawmaker who has ever voted for marriage equality has lost a re-election bid. It's simply a matter of time. New Yorkers deserve full equality. Now is the time. Please, contact your Senator and ask them to vote YES for marriage equality. ”
The gemara condemns the Egyptians and Canaanites for giving same-sex relationships the status of marriage, and praises the Persians for not giving them that status. So how can anyone on this site support this? Like most Americans, I'm all for civil unions or domestic partnerships or whatever you want to call them, but against putting these relationships on a par with marriages. The Torah is against it, and we are supposed to be a light to the nations.
11
Jun 03, 2009 at 05:19 AM Anonymous Says:
This will mean that heimisha catering halls will not be allowed to reject gay weddings from their establishments. There are many frum gays (men and women) who will want to get married in a kosher facility. What will we do.
12
Jun 02, 2009 at 10:16 PM Cory Says:
It is crazy that in New York this is even an issue. The city, economy and culture is driven by gays. Gays should stop working and spending money for one day if this fails
13
Jun 02, 2009 at 10:05 PM AuthenticSatmar Says:
Why don't we just abolish gov't marriage completely.
Marriage is a contract between two people and sometimes includes a religious vow too. The gov't has no business being involved at all.
If we would eliminate the gov't role we would not be legitimizing the actions of those looking to shove an agenda down our throat.
14
Jun 03, 2009 at 07:25 AM Charlie Hall Says:
“ The gemara condemns the Egyptians and Canaanites for giving same-sex relationships the status of marriage, and praises the Persians for not giving them that status. So how can anyone on this site support this? Like most Americans, I'm all for civil unions or domestic partnerships or whatever you want to call them, but against putting these relationships on a par with marriages. The Torah is against it, and we are supposed to be a light to the nations. ”
There is no evidence of this other than from the gemara. The ancient societies that did that were Greece and Rome -- sort of. The gemara may have been censored.
And one of the most notorious Gay men of ancient times was Alexander the Great. Chazal do not have a word of criticism of him for this.
15
Jun 03, 2009 at 08:34 AM Anonymous Says:
Shame! Shame on NY that they came to a point of legalizing dirty, low-class stuff. Marriage is meant to be between men and women. God was still smart enough to set up society like that. How do people, created by the One Himself, have the slightest guts to implement or go for such a thing???
Its a shame! Society came to a point to where it can almost not go worse!!
May moshiach come soon!
16
Jun 03, 2009 at 09:08 AM deepthinker Says:
"Charlie Hall: Sen. Thomas Duane claims that the votes are there to pass the bill:"
Rarely do I agree with Charlie the Progressive Liberal, but in this analysis, I'm afraid he's right. America has become a degenerate society, as is evidenced by the kinds of "entertainment" that Americans now favor, the degradation of humanity that is all around us, the degraded standards of behavior, the "anything-goes mentality.
The Rabbinic sources , Charlie, make it clear that, when a society puts its official, legal imprimatur on "GayMarriage," that is the final straw--it's all over, because there is no longer any hope for repentance when America turns a vice into a virtue.
17
Jun 03, 2009 at 11:33 AM Anonymous Says:
“ There is no evidence of this other than from the gemara. The ancient societies that did that were Greece and Rome -- sort of. The gemara may have been censored.
And one of the most notorious Gay men of ancient times was Alexander the Great. Chazal do not have a word of criticism of him for this. ”
You're apparently a big am ha'aretz!
This isur of mishkav zocohr is a "death penalty" avaira by the torah, its one of the worst isurim, and chazal is full of it all over.
Chazal also says that thes avairos brought the 'mabul' on the world.
18
Jun 03, 2009 at 11:30 AM Anonymous Says:
Shame on those government officials endorsing such toiaivoh, teying to bring such low laws into society.
And shame on those commentators defending a shmutz and dirt law that will legalise an issur d'oireisa and many derabonon's.
19
Jun 03, 2009 at 12:14 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ This will mean that heimisha catering halls will not be allowed to reject gay weddings from their establishments. There are many frum gays (men and women) who will want to get married in a kosher facility. What will we do. ”
I guess that someone could be "frum" and gay, but someone can't be a shomer Torah and mitzvos and be gay.
20
Jun 03, 2009 at 01:40 PM boruch n. hoffinger Says:
“ I guess that someone could be "frum" and gay, but someone can't be a shomer Torah and mitzvos and be gay. ”
BS"D
Dear Raphael Kaufman,
Please explain the difference between 'frum' and 'Shomer Torah and Mitzvos'.
It appears to me to be saying the exact same thing but in different languages.
By the way, I once heard a radio show driving down Ocean Parkway (About 12 yrs. ago?) sponsored by a well-known Jewish org. (forgot) which clearly stated and showed how the downfall of a society (Na i Germany was example) starts with the use of unclear terms and labels: Family Size, Jumbo Size, Giant Size, etc.
21
Jun 03, 2009 at 01:36 PM boruch n. hoffinger Says:
“ This will mean that heimisha catering halls will not be allowed to reject gay weddings from their establishments. There are many frum gays (men and women) who will want to get married in a kosher facility. What will we do. ”
BS"D
Show them a lot of love and understanding and try to talk to them.
If there is no choice one can find a way of avoiding such things: No openings, etc.
22
Jun 03, 2009 at 01:30 PM boruch n. hoffinger Says:
“ "Charlie Hall: Sen. Thomas Duane claims that the votes are there to pass the bill:"
Rarely do I agree with Charlie the Progressive Liberal, but in this analysis, I'm afraid he's right. America has become a degenerate society, as is evidenced by the kinds of "entertainment" that Americans now favor, the degradation of humanity that is all around us, the degraded standards of behavior, the "anything-goes mentality.
The Rabbinic sources , Charlie, make it clear that, when a society puts its official, legal imprimatur on "GayMarriage," that is the final straw--it's all over, because there is no longer any hope for repentance when America turns a vice into a virtue.
”
BS"D
Dear Raphael Kaufman,
Why must we assume that society is putting it's 'imprimatur' on homosexuality? The politicians are probably doing it to stay in office or get elected. They couldn't care a 'hoot' about this subject or the consequences to the parties involved or society. Consequences? Instead of helping these people learn to love and live with the opposite sex and have children, they are condemning them to a lonely life. Rachel, Immainu said that if she can't have children she is like dead.
Adopting children by same-sex couples (Even straight) is not healthy for a child. Dr. Laura (Remember her?) used to quote psychological literature all the time.)
23
Jun 03, 2009 at 01:25 PM boruch n. hoffinger Says:
“ The gemara condemns the Egyptians and Canaanites for giving same-sex relationships the status of marriage, and praises the Persians for not giving them that status. So how can anyone on this site support this? Like most Americans, I'm all for civil unions or domestic partnerships or whatever you want to call them, but against putting these relationships on a par with marriages. The Torah is against it, and we are supposed to be a light to the nations. ”
BS"D
Dear Milhouse,
Now you're someone with 'sechel.' Those that support this destructive and stupid law either are ignorant of Torah values or are just 'vilde menschen.'
Read this: (I sent this idea to an AOL person who was for g-y marriage and after reading it he/she refused to talk to me anymore (Scared?).
Just suppose: The death rate for every 1,000 male homosexuals is 10% because of their ‘at risk lifestyle.’ 100 die regularly every year.
Now imagine a state of 15 million residents. 10 million drivers, the majority of this state, want to repeal the mandatory seat-belt law for adults. They’re wild; they love the danger to themselves, but not their children. The death rate for driving w/o seatbelts is 10%. 1 million would die regularly every year.
Would the politicians agree to repeal the seat-belt law in order to get voted in, even if this means that 1 million people definitely die every year?
It appears as if they would.
(The same AOL person said that the AIDS plague is affecting the heterosexual community very much also. I responded, even though homosexuals will continue to do what they do, why should society sanction suicide? Why add insult to injury? Also the definition of 'marriage' will become unclear. Why not then change other terms to suit the political need?)
24
Jun 03, 2009 at 02:21 PM Charlie Hall Says:
“ Why don't we just abolish gov't marriage completely.
Marriage is a contract between two people and sometimes includes a religious vow too. The gov't has no business being involved at all.
If we would eliminate the gov't role we would not be legitimizing the actions of those looking to shove an agenda down our throat. ”
I don't often agree with Authentic Satmar, but think this may be the ideal solution. Let those of us who are religious have religious marriages, and keep the government out of it.
25
Jun 03, 2009 at 05:40 PM Milhouse Says:
“ I guess that someone could be "frum" and gay, but someone can't be a shomer Torah and mitzvos and be gay. ”
Of course one can, just as one can be shomer Torah umitzvos and tell loshon hora, or be mevatel torah commenting on web sites. There ARE frum people who are gay, that's a fact. Some manage to contain their yetzer horo and live lonely lives; others are not able to do that, which makes them no different than those who do other averos. When Borough Park empties out of its women and children every summer, the ladies of the night do a roaring trade; it's unfortunate, but it's a fact, and that doesn't mean their clients are not shomrei torah umitzvos, it just means they have yetzer horos.
But that has nothing to do with the subject, which is giving such relationships the formal status of marriage. The gemara, which assumes that pretty much all goyim indulge in this avera as a matter of course, draws a line there and praises nations that don't cross it.
26
Jun 03, 2009 at 05:13 PM Milhouse Says:
“ There is no evidence of this other than from the gemara. The ancient societies that did that were Greece and Rome -- sort of. The gemara may have been censored.
And one of the most notorious Gay men of ancient times was Alexander the Great. Chazal do not have a word of criticism of him for this. ”
Since when is the gemara not evidence enough for us? Greece and Rome did NOT have same-sex marriages.
Are you really suggesting that the gemara was censored to replace Greece and Rome with Mitzrayim and Kenaan? That's ridiculous; the gemara (braysa, actually) is simply explaining the posuk, which explicitly talks about Mitzrayin and Kenaan, not about Greece and Rome, neither of which existed in the posuk's time.
Alexander didn't marry Hephaestion, nor did the thought ever occur to him. He married two women. So what has he got to do with this?
27
Jun 03, 2009 at 06:12 PM tzoorba Says:
“ I don't often agree with Authentic Satmar, but think this may be the ideal solution. Let those of us who are religious have religious marriages, and keep the government out of it.
”
First of all, the number of gays is really much less than is publicly assumed. They really don't deserve the political clout that has been afforded to them.
Gays can fornicate today at will and no one is stopping them. What they want is insurance rights to grab a piece of insurance money and raise rates for all the rest of us.
They also want to be in our face, with their lifestyle touted in ads and in all textbooks.
They also want to force everyone to have to associate and deal with them when we would rather avoid them due to their depraved and unhealthy lifestyle.
This will affect all of us more than you can imagine. It is not at all a case of live and let live.
28
Jun 03, 2009 at 11:15 PM Milhouse Says:
“ First of all, the number of gays is really much less than is publicly assumed. They really don't deserve the political clout that has been afforded to them.
Gays can fornicate today at will and no one is stopping them. What they want is insurance rights to grab a piece of insurance money and raise rates for all the rest of us.
They also want to be in our face, with their lifestyle touted in ads and in all textbooks.
They also want to force everyone to have to associate and deal with them when we would rather avoid them due to their depraved and unhealthy lifestyle.
This will affect all of us more than you can imagine. It is not at all a case of live and let live. ”
If someone is working just as much as you, why shouldn't he get the same insurance benefits as you? If that raises your rates, then it means you were sponging off his work; why was that fair? If they're one household, they're entitled to be treated the same as any other household. If they care about each other, the law ought not to pretend that isn't so.
But this isn't about insurance, because for that all they need is domestic partnership, or civil union. As the recent court cases in California and Connecticut show, it's not about any of the tangible benefits that recognition of a couple's existence can bring. It's about the social and official status of marriage. And that is something they are NOT entitled to, and shouldn't have.
Like most Americans, I am for civil unions, but against same-sex marriage.
29
Jun 04, 2009 at 04:41 AM moish Says:
“ The gemara condemns the Egyptians and Canaanites for giving same-sex relationships the status of marriage, and praises the Persians for not giving them that status. So how can anyone on this site support this? Like most Americans, I'm all for civil unions or domestic partnerships or whatever you want to call them, but against putting these relationships on a par with marriages. The Torah is against it, and we are supposed to be a light to the nations. ”
why are you all for civil unions, that would mean gay relationships being recognized as a legitimate lifestyle, and besides by a goy there is no difference between this and marriage, as acc. to the torah marriage by a goy is living together.
30
Jun 04, 2009 at 06:38 AM moish Says:
“ Of course one can, just as one can be shomer Torah umitzvos and tell loshon hora, or be mevatel torah commenting on web sites. There ARE frum people who are gay, that's a fact. Some manage to contain their yetzer horo and live lonely lives; others are not able to do that, which makes them no different than those who do other averos. When Borough Park empties out of its women and children every summer, the ladies of the night do a roaring trade; it's unfortunate, but it's a fact, and that doesn't mean their clients are not shomrei torah umitzvos, it just means they have yetzer horos.
But that has nothing to do with the subject, which is giving such relationships the formal status of marriage. The gemara, which assumes that pretty much all goyim indulge in this avera as a matter of course, draws a line there and praises nations that don't cross it. ”
They may be CALLED shomer torah umitzvos, but someone who is a mumar ledovor echod is not shomer torah umitzvos, but yes someone can be gay in that he has a sexual attraction to men, and still be shomer torah umitzvos if he doesn't engage in homosexual acts. And by the way everyone has a yetzer horo, the shailo is if you listen to it.
31
Jun 04, 2009 at 10:23 AM Milhouse Says:
“ They may be CALLED shomer torah umitzvos, but someone who is a mumar ledovor echod is not shomer torah umitzvos, but yes someone can be gay in that he has a sexual attraction to men, and still be shomer torah umitzvos if he doesn't engage in homosexual acts. And by the way everyone has a yetzer horo, the shailo is if you listen to it.
”
In that case there is no such thing as a shomer torah umitzvos. Where do you find someone who never listens to his yetzer horo?
32
Jun 04, 2009 at 10:22 AM Milhouse Says:
“ why are you all for civil unions, that would mean gay relationships being recognized as a legitimate lifestyle, and besides by a goy there is no difference between this and marriage, as acc. to the torah marriage by a goy is living together. ”
I'm for civil unions because they're entitled to be treated like anyone else. The relationships are a fact, whether we like it or not, and it's unfair to discriminate against them. But I'm against giving these relationships the formal status of marriages, because the gemara specifically objects to that.
33
Jun 04, 2009 at 12:31 PM moish Says:
“ I'm for civil unions because they're entitled to be treated like anyone else. The relationships are a fact, whether we like it or not, and it's unfair to discriminate against them. But I'm against giving these relationships the formal status of marriages, because the gemara specifically objects to that. ”
On this you also missed my point, by a goy there is no kiddushin, and there is no difference whether the government calls it a marriage or civil union, the gemoro is criticizing the living together officially as husband and wife (or shall we say husband and husband).
34
Jun 04, 2009 at 11:58 AM moish Says:
“ In that case there is no such thing as a shomer torah umitzvos. Where do you find someone who never listens to his yetzer horo? ”
you missed my point, i specifically said someone who is a mumar ledovor echod, that is he disregards one mitzva totally, not somebody who is nichshal occasionally.
35
Jun 05, 2009 at 03:54 AM Milhouse Says:
“ you missed my point, i specifically said someone who is a mumar ledovor echod, that is he disregards one mitzva totally, not somebody who is nichshal occasionally. ”
Gay couples probably do fewer averos together than most people tell loshon hora.
36
Jun 05, 2009 at 03:53 AM Milhouse Says:
“ On this you also missed my point, by a goy there is no kiddushin, and there is no difference whether the government calls it a marriage or civil union, the gemoro is criticizing the living together officially as husband and wife (or shall we say husband and husband).
”
No, it isn't. It accepts that goyim are going to do that, just as it accepts that they are going to serve a"z and kill people. What it specifically praises the Persians for is not giving these relationships the status of marriage, and what it criticizes the Egyptians and Canaanites for is that they did so. As I pointed out to Charlie earlier, for all that Alexander and Hephaestion were famous as a couple, they didn't get married. Alexander had two wives, both of whom were women.