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S. Paul, MN - After Outrage, Respected Chabad Rabbi Says His Muslim Genocide Remarks In Magazine Misleading |
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Rabbi Manis Friedman
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In a piece featuring several rabbis, Rabbi Manis Friedman of Bais Chana Institute of Jewish Studies in St. Paul responded to the question "How Should Jews Treat Their Arab Neighbors?" by suggesting that Jewish people should kill Arab men, women and children in addition to destroying their holy sites.
The piece sparked outrage from many in the Jewish community, including two Jewish groups, and a response from the Minnesota chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.
Friedman responded to the outcry with his own update on his website see below
I would like to clarify the answer published in my name in last month’s issue of Moment Magazine.
First of all, the opinions published in my name are solely my own, and do not represent the official policy of any Jewish movement or organization.
Additionally, my answer, as published, is misleading. For it is, in truth, an answer to a different question.
It is obvious, I thought, that any neighbor of the Jewish people should be treated, as the Torah commands us, with respect and compassion. Fundamental to the Jewish faith is the concept that every human being was created in the image of G-d, and our sages instruct us to support the non-Jewish poor along with the poor of our own brethren.
The question my statement addresses is: how should we act in time of war, when our neighbors attack us, using their women, children and religious holy places as shields. I attempted to briefly address some of the ethical issues related to forcing the military to withhold fire from certain people and places, at the unbearable cost of widespread bloodshed (on both sides!)—when one’s own family and nation is mercilessly targeted from those very people and places! (I look forward to further clarifying my brief words, too, in a future issue.)
I apologize for any misunderstanding the words printed in my name created.
—Rabbi Manis Friedman
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Read Comments (82) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 03, 2009 at 04:19 PM Milhouse Says:
His meaning was indeed obvious and needed no clarification. What he doesn't get is that to the lefties at Moment the common sense that he spoke and meant *is* shocking racism. They refuse to distinguish between peaceful people and enemies. More to the point, they refuse to recognise the entire concept of distinct nations, and the operation of a different morality in wartime. To them, the person holding the bomb is a terrorist, but he acts only for himself and nobody else is responsible. The idea that he is acting for his entire nation, and his entire nation is guilty, is completely foreign to them.
So is the concept that we Jews are a nation, and our own people are more important to us than those of any other nation, especially than those of an enemy nation. To them, a dead Jew is exactly as sad as a dead Arab "civilian", and so if they had to choose between allowing an Arab to shoot one Jewish child, and stopping him by blowing him up together with his family, they would choose the former as the lesser of two evils! From their internationalist point of view, it makes sense; one life is as valuable as another, all people are "brothers", and it's racist to care more about our own people than about anyone else. The ultimate result of this thinking is that all war is unacceptable, no matter what the cause.
The Torah, of course, takes the opposite view, and does treat people as part of nations, and does hold nations collectively responsible for the actions they take, even if a particular member was not personally responsible. We go to war, not against individuals but against entire nations, and the entire nations are our enemies and legitimate targets. Thus, neither Hiroshima nor Dresden were crimes; the German and Japanese nations were responsible for the crimes committed in their names, and they received their just punishment. But go tell the lefties that.
2
Jun 03, 2009 at 04:16 PM Anonymous Says:
This rebbe is either senile or simply totally irresponible by creating a risk to the lives of yiddin everyewhere in the world by his stupid comments. While he says in retrospect his words were "irresponsible", that understates the damage he has done and cannot be undone with his backhanded and feeble efforts at an apology. Such a man should be removed immediately from any involvment with educating yiddeshe children.
3
Jun 03, 2009 at 04:24 PM Avrohom Abba Says:
How many protests did the Minnesota chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations make against all the bombings in Israel against schools and hospitals and buses and trains?
Guess what? I am willing to bet that the only bombings they condemned were those against Gaza which were rertaliatory for all the missiles, hate, murder and bloodshed the religion of peace is world famous for.
4
Jun 03, 2009 at 04:54 PM Anonymous Says:
“ His meaning was indeed obvious and needed no clarification. What he doesn't get is that to the lefties at Moment the common sense that he spoke and meant *is* shocking racism. They refuse to distinguish between peaceful people and enemies. More to the point, they refuse to recognise the entire concept of distinct nations, and the operation of a different morality in wartime. To them, the person holding the bomb is a terrorist, but he acts only for himself and nobody else is responsible. The idea that he is acting for his entire nation, and his entire nation is guilty, is completely foreign to them.
So is the concept that we Jews are a nation, and our own people are more important to us than those of any other nation, especially than those of an enemy nation. To them, a dead Jew is exactly as sad as a dead Arab "civilian", and so if they had to choose between allowing an Arab to shoot one Jewish child, and stopping him by blowing him up together with his family, they would choose the former as the lesser of two evils! From their internationalist point of view, it makes sense; one life is as valuable as another, all people are "brothers", and it's racist to care more about our own people than about anyone else. The ultimate result of this thinking is that all war is unacceptable, no matter what the cause.
The Torah, of course, takes the opposite view, and does treat people as part of nations, and does hold nations collectively responsible for the actions they take, even if a particular member was not personally responsible. We go to war, not against individuals but against entire nations, and the entire nations are our enemies and legitimate targets. Thus, neither Hiroshima nor Dresden were crimes; the German and Japanese nations were responsible for the crimes committed in their names, and they received their just punishment. But go tell the lefties that. ”
I'm not a "lefty" but do find the concept of "collective punishment" for the actions of a small subset of individuals to be repulsive and lowers us to the same level as Al Quada targeting innocent civilians in "retaliation" for the actions of EY or the U.S. We are not "at war" against the 40+ countries in the world with largely Islamic populations (whether Arab or otherwise). Your comments reflect a profound misunderstanding of daas torah.
5
Jun 03, 2009 at 04:53 PM Shlomo Says:
Rabbi Manis Friedman is the brother of Jewish Music Superstar Avraham Fried as well as the father of the new up and coming jewish music star Benny Friedman who's debut album will be hitting the stores very soon.
6
Jun 03, 2009 at 05:42 PM chaim Says:
“ I'm not a "lefty" but do find the concept of "collective punishment" for the actions of a small subset of individuals to be repulsive and lowers us to the same level as Al Quada targeting innocent civilians in "retaliation" for the actions of EY or the U.S. We are not "at war" against the 40+ countries in the world with largely Islamic populations (whether Arab or otherwise). Your comments reflect a profound misunderstanding of daas torah. ”
We are not at war with 40 nations but we are at war with a people that rains down
missiles on Israel everyday and if there is no other way to stop it only with collective punishment than this is Daas Torah.
You might not be a lefty but you still have a warped mind.
7
Jun 03, 2009 at 05:32 PM Yossele Says:
His only mistake was presuming that Moment had any interest in portraying him in a positive light.
I think it's safe to say that yidden were targets before his statement hit the press.
8
Jun 03, 2009 at 05:31 PM tzoorba Says:
“ I'm not a "lefty" but do find the concept of "collective punishment" for the actions of a small subset of individuals to be repulsive and lowers us to the same level as Al Quada targeting innocent civilians in "retaliation" for the actions of EY or the U.S. We are not "at war" against the 40+ countries in the world with largely Islamic populations (whether Arab or otherwise). Your comments reflect a profound misunderstanding of daas torah. ”
I believe that Milhouse understands the Torah's concept of enemies and war supremely well.
My only point of contention with him is that all civilized countries used to understand that one's own people always come ahead of any of an enemies people. My soldier is worth any number of enemy civilians. In order to survive and do justice to one's own people requires that we do the utmost to destroy anyone that comes against us as an enemy.
That is why it was obvious that when Germany bombed London, England bombed German population centers. The nuclear bombing of Japanese civilians (who all supported Japan as do all civilians of a warring faction) was a good action on America's part to save millions of our soldiers from dying in a land invasion. It also brought the war to a swifter conclusion.
In general, all civilians of a warring group support their soldiers. Palestinian civilians have served as human shields to prevent Israeli soldiers from firing on terrorists. There is also no guarantee that you will win until the enemy is totally and utterly defeated. Logic dictates that only a full fledged attack on those that attack us is reasonable to insure the safety of our own. This is just, moral and required for any group to survive.
9
Jun 03, 2009 at 05:27 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This rebbe is either senile or simply totally irresponible by creating a risk to the lives of yiddin everyewhere in the world by his stupid comments. While he says in retrospect his words were "irresponsible", that understates the damage he has done and cannot be undone with his backhanded and feeble efforts at an apology. Such a man should be removed immediately from any involvment with educating yiddeshe children. ”
You apparently have no inkling whom you are speaking of. It seems like your opinions match those of the liberal leftist Moment magazine. Rabbi Manis Friedman speaks honestly. If you can't handle the truth go stick your head in the sand like an ostrich. If anyone, Arab, Christian etc. attacks me, I absolutely have the right to defend myself and kill them before they finish me off.
Rabbi Friedman, I appreciate your honesty now and always. It is an absolute fargenigen to listen to your shiurim and spread them further.
Thank you.
10
Jun 03, 2009 at 06:31 PM Litvak Yid Says:
ANd as a followup why did he even want to be quoted by this magazine? Why would you want to tarnish your name and the Torah by participating with other so called "jewish denominations". Whenever we give credence to them we support the idea that their opinions matter. Guess what I dont care what any reform.conversative,renewal, humanist preacher thinks... Their opinions on Torah are as valuable as mudd on my shoe! Serves him right for participating with such drek... Go make havdalah and go to a mikveh!
11
Jun 03, 2009 at 06:30 PM Anonymous Says:
"In general, all civilians of a warring group support their soldiers. Palestinian civilians have served as human shields to prevent Israeli soldiers from firing on terrorists. There is also no guarantee that you will win until the enemy is totally and utterly defeated. Logic dictates that only a full fledged attack on those that attack us is reasonable to insure the safety of our own. This is just, moral and required for any group to survive."
Good, so don't whine when the Palestinians blow up buses and pizza stores. After all, the only way for them to get their land back is not to distinguish between the Israeli government and the now guilty by common nationality civilians. Amazing how the right wing Jews are always the same people who would be suicide bomb supporting Palestinians if only they were born to another mother.
12
Jun 03, 2009 at 06:27 PM Litvak Yid Says:
"First of all, the opinions published in my name are solely my own, and do not represent the official policy of any Jewish movement or organization. "
He couldnt be further wrong... and he is a rabbi? albeit chabad... Fundamental principle is that All of Israel is ONE! We all share in blame and in blessings! What ONE of us does reflects on ALL of us... The good and the bad!
13
Jun 03, 2009 at 06:19 PM Anonymous Says:
the truth is these are torah values that you destroy your enemy and dont lose steadfastness in defeating even going on a offensive campaign with the sefer torah
good luck manis and from strength to strength
14
Jun 03, 2009 at 06:13 PM Anonymous Says:
“ His only mistake was presuming that Moment had any interest in portraying him in a positive light.
I think it's safe to say that yidden were targets before his statement hit the press. ”
This is not about Moment. He decided to participate and wrote the response. He has not denied that they were his words.
15
Jun 03, 2009 at 06:06 PM Manis Fan Says:
Rabbi Manis Friedman rocks! While I don't fully understand what exactly he meant here, after listening to hours of him speaking and watching his videos I know that he is extremely wise and knows how to make things crystal clear and simple to understand - I suggest you go and listen or watch something of his to get an idea of what he is all about. Enjoy! - (You can find some classes on Chabad.org. His site has them all - ItsGoodToKnow.com - No one put me up to this - just go check it out and you will see for yourself - It really is good to know!)
Thank you Rabbi Manis Friedman!
All the best!
16
Jun 03, 2009 at 04:46 PM AH Says:
“ This rebbe is either senile or simply totally irresponible by creating a risk to the lives of yiddin everyewhere in the world by his stupid comments. While he says in retrospect his words were "irresponsible", that understates the damage he has done and cannot be undone with his backhanded and feeble efforts at an apology. Such a man should be removed immediately from any involvment with educating yiddeshe children. ”
No, Rabbi Friedman didn't "say in retrospect that his words were 'irresponsible,'" so don't put words in his mouth and attack him for them. He's saying, if anything, that Moment Magazine were the irresponsible ones: "my answer, as published, is misleading. For it is, in truth, an answer to a different question."
And really, what risk has he created? Were there no Palestinian and other terrorists bent on harming Jews (G-d forbid) until this article was published?
17
Jun 03, 2009 at 04:45 PM Elchonon Says:
#2,
Really ? most of my family over 16 can shoot, its america.. buy a gun and defwnd yourself and family and stop with "what will the goyim say" i say "eat lead"
2nd, what about the jewish lives lost in eretz yisrael due to this ?? huh huh huh huh
kenst du gornisht farshtein ? shtik drek iz altz... bist epes neturei karta ?
18
Jun 03, 2009 at 04:41 PM yankel Says:
solid and sensible opinion from a secular point of view , this should be the common sense thinking of anybody not yet brainwashed by liberlisem . however from a torah perspective you should not be allowed to kill the innocent even in case of them being a human shield while their people attack you .
19
Jun 03, 2009 at 04:37 PM Anonymous Says:
Moment magazine is a leftist subversive, junk publication that has absouletly no redeming value and should not be read by a Torah observent person. It is not worth the paper it is written on, its only use is for cleaning windows and wraping fish and I'm not sure about wraping fish as it might make the fish treif!
20
Jun 03, 2009 at 04:33 PM Yishmael must all die Says:
“ This rebbe is either senile or simply totally irresponible by creating a risk to the lives of yiddin everyewhere in the world by his stupid comments. While he says in retrospect his words were "irresponsible", that understates the damage he has done and cannot be undone with his backhanded and feeble efforts at an apology. Such a man should be removed immediately from any involvment with educating yiddeshe children. ”
obviously you have NO IDEA what media means-they are known to TWIST YOUR WORDS and write things you said in places they dont belong. I happen to agree with how the media twisted his words-arabs must be killed exterminated uprooted, having "talks" with them is what will kill us as a country and a nation. They are not rational-they are extremist who must die for the pain they have caused to us as well as their own. They dont even deserve to be talked about-they just need to be wiped out already. Yishmael is not the one Hashem wants-it is Yitzchak!
21
Jun 03, 2009 at 04:33 PM Anonymous Says:
“ His meaning was indeed obvious and needed no clarification. What he doesn't get is that to the lefties at Moment the common sense that he spoke and meant *is* shocking racism. They refuse to distinguish between peaceful people and enemies. More to the point, they refuse to recognise the entire concept of distinct nations, and the operation of a different morality in wartime. To them, the person holding the bomb is a terrorist, but he acts only for himself and nobody else is responsible. The idea that he is acting for his entire nation, and his entire nation is guilty, is completely foreign to them.
So is the concept that we Jews are a nation, and our own people are more important to us than those of any other nation, especially than those of an enemy nation. To them, a dead Jew is exactly as sad as a dead Arab "civilian", and so if they had to choose between allowing an Arab to shoot one Jewish child, and stopping him by blowing him up together with his family, they would choose the former as the lesser of two evils! From their internationalist point of view, it makes sense; one life is as valuable as another, all people are "brothers", and it's racist to care more about our own people than about anyone else. The ultimate result of this thinking is that all war is unacceptable, no matter what the cause.
The Torah, of course, takes the opposite view, and does treat people as part of nations, and does hold nations collectively responsible for the actions they take, even if a particular member was not personally responsible. We go to war, not against individuals but against entire nations, and the entire nations are our enemies and legitimate targets. Thus, neither Hiroshima nor Dresden were crimes; the German and Japanese nations were responsible for the crimes committed in their names, and they received their just punishment. But go tell the lefties that. ”
you happen to be right, but it was still totally irresponsible for this rav to get up and say it in such a way that it could have been misinterpreted. yes, you and i interpreted the statement correctly, but too many people didn't, and it wasn't just bleeding-heart liberals; we have yigal amirs and baruch goldsteins to worry about. we are in big trouble when those kinds of crazies take the law into their own hands, basing themselves on the words of rabbonim. there's a reason pirkei avos warns "wise men be careful with their words"...
22
Jun 03, 2009 at 04:29 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This rebbe is either senile or simply totally irresponible by creating a risk to the lives of yiddin everyewhere in the world by his stupid comments. While he says in retrospect his words were "irresponsible", that understates the damage he has done and cannot be undone with his backhanded and feeble efforts at an apology. Such a man should be removed immediately from any involvment with educating yiddeshe children. ”
Oh stop it, you left wing loonie! I know Manis Friedman very well: a gentler, more intelligent & compassionate man would be hard to find.
But he IS very naive. Surprisingly, he didn't get that articles/words are edited to cast a particular spin & to give one point of view that sometimes is totally the opposite of what was said/written. Do you ever have YOUR words taken out of context? Or are you perfect?
23
Jun 03, 2009 at 07:16 PM Elchonon Says:
Your all wrong, theres no halchic prohibition in his words.
If terrorists are using a kindergarten to shell AND kill people from, i say bomb em to allah.. a society that fosters this violence, cannot be dealt with sugar coated words.
If you have knowledge that a terrorist is going to fire missles and it will be able to kill those that it hits, your required to bomb him back to allah tzvei mall!
Sorry cheesy folks, I live in chevron, youd be most welcome to meet my oh so unfriendly neighbors.. I lived 6 months in gush katif.
btw many soldiers lives were lost due to these situations of not firing at hospitals, mosques and kindergarten's when there were terrorists there shooting out.
Read "a psalm in jenin" for just a few of these casses..
24
Jun 03, 2009 at 06:50 PM tzoorba Says:
“ "In general, all civilians of a warring group support their soldiers. Palestinian civilians have served as human shields to prevent Israeli soldiers from firing on terrorists. There is also no guarantee that you will win until the enemy is totally and utterly defeated. Logic dictates that only a full fledged attack on those that attack us is reasonable to insure the safety of our own. This is just, moral and required for any group to survive."
Good, so don't whine when the Palestinians blow up buses and pizza stores. After all, the only way for them to get their land back is not to distinguish between the Israeli government and the now guilty by common nationality civilians. Amazing how the right wing Jews are always the same people who would be suicide bomb supporting Palestinians if only they were born to another mother. ”
I don't whine. I just believe that the terrorists should be utterly wiped out.
You have proven my point.
25
Jun 03, 2009 at 07:29 PM A Villainsburger Says:
“ you happen to be right, but it was still totally irresponsible for this rav to get up and say it in such a way that it could have been misinterpreted. yes, you and i interpreted the statement correctly, but too many people didn't, and it wasn't just bleeding-heart liberals; we have yigal amirs and baruch goldsteins to worry about. we are in big trouble when those kinds of crazies take the law into their own hands, basing themselves on the words of rabbonim. there's a reason pirkei avos warns "wise men be careful with their words"... ”
"we have our own yigal amirs and baruch goldsteins"
WHAT? As far as I know there was only one Yigal Amir, a young gullible fellow who was totally remote controled by secular GSS plant Raviv AKA "shimpanya", and one Baruch Goldstein, a gentle devoted physician who treated "Palestinians" patients just like his Jewish ones. The trauma of treating seriously wounded victims from several succesive horrific terrorist act, took its toll. He obviously snapped and did what he did.
I'm not justifiying his actions, since I can't know if his actions eventualy saved Jewish lives or not. My point is in all honesty you can't even use these two as an extreme, rare exeption.
given the facts on the ground
26
Jun 03, 2009 at 07:47 PM A Villainsburger Says:
Just to clarify my previous post:
I'm not justifiying the actions of those two lone individuals.
The facts on the ground are, NOBODY ever took the type of action implied when invoking the aforementioned names, as a result of of any words - misinterpreted or not, by any Rav, Rosh Yeshiva or Rebbe.
So if you have extra time to burn, use 'em a little more productively that on lecturing others for speaking their minds.
Especialy, if as any intellectualy honest would agree, he is outright right.
27
Jun 03, 2009 at 07:42 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Oh stop it, you left wing loonie! I know Manis Friedman very well: a gentler, more intelligent & compassionate man would be hard to find.
But he IS very naive. Surprisingly, he didn't get that articles/words are edited to cast a particular spin & to give one point of view that sometimes is totally the opposite of what was said/written. Do you ever have YOUR words taken out of context? Or are you perfect? ”
Many of us have regreted words we have said but its different when your words have the potential to provide an excuse to some lunatic to take actions in your name that could jeopardize the lives of others.
28
Jun 03, 2009 at 07:40 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Moment magazine is a leftist subversive, junk publication that has absouletly no redeming value and should not be read by a Torah observent person. It is not worth the paper it is written on, its only use is for cleaning windows and wraping fish and I'm not sure about wraping fish as it might make the fish treif! ”
Unless you don't know, Moment was founded by Ellie Weisel so obviously the magazine has great importance to all jews. Your arrogance is not in accordance with how torah scholars would address someone whose views they disagree with.
29
Jun 03, 2009 at 07:31 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Rabbi Manis Friedman is the brother of Jewish Music Superstar Avraham Fried as well as the father of the new up and coming jewish music star Benny Friedman who's debut album will be hitting the stores very soon. ”
Then we should boycott their music unless they publicly denounce these hateful words by their father??
30
Jun 03, 2009 at 08:29 PM Dovid Says:
“ Unless you don't know, Moment was founded by Ellie Weisel so obviously the magazine has great importance to all jews. Your arrogance is not in accordance with how torah scholars would address someone whose views they disagree with. ”
Chachomim hizoharu bidivraichem....
31
Jun 03, 2009 at 08:20 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This rebbe is either senile or simply totally irresponible by creating a risk to the lives of yiddin everyewhere in the world by his stupid comments. While he says in retrospect his words were "irresponsible", that understates the damage he has done and cannot be undone with his backhanded and feeble efforts at an apology. Such a man should be removed immediately from any involvment with educating yiddeshe children. ”
No where did the Rebbe write that his words were irresposible. Don't misquote!
32
Jun 03, 2009 at 08:17 PM Milhouse Says:
“ I believe that Milhouse understands the Torah's concept of enemies and war supremely well.
My only point of contention with him is that all civilized countries used to understand that one's own people always come ahead of any of an enemies people. My soldier is worth any number of enemy civilians. In order to survive and do justice to one's own people requires that we do the utmost to destroy anyone that comes against us as an enemy.
That is why it was obvious that when Germany bombed London, England bombed German population centers. The nuclear bombing of Japanese civilians (who all supported Japan as do all civilians of a warring faction) was a good action on America's part to save millions of our soldiers from dying in a land invasion. It also brought the war to a swifter conclusion.
In general, all civilians of a warring group support their soldiers. Palestinian civilians have served as human shields to prevent Israeli soldiers from firing on terrorists. There is also no guarantee that you will win until the enemy is totally and utterly defeated. Logic dictates that only a full fledged attack on those that attack us is reasonable to insure the safety of our own. This is just, moral and required for any group to survive. ”
"My only point of contention with him is that all civilized countries used to understand..."
The operative phrase there is "used to".
33
Jun 03, 2009 at 08:25 PM Milhouse Says:
“ "In general, all civilians of a warring group support their soldiers. Palestinian civilians have served as human shields to prevent Israeli soldiers from firing on terrorists. There is also no guarantee that you will win until the enemy is totally and utterly defeated. Logic dictates that only a full fledged attack on those that attack us is reasonable to insure the safety of our own. This is just, moral and required for any group to survive."
Good, so don't whine when the Palestinians blow up buses and pizza stores. After all, the only way for them to get their land back is not to distinguish between the Israeli government and the now guilty by common nationality civilians. Amazing how the right wing Jews are always the same people who would be suicide bomb supporting Palestinians if only they were born to another mother. ”
Whining? Is that what you call it? IT'S NOT THEIR LAND. The fundamental difference between us and them is that we are fighting for our right to exist in peace in our land, and they are fighting to expel us from it and steal it from us. If you break into my house I can shoot you dead and not be charged with anything, while if you lay a finger on me you will be charged with assault. Is that fair? Yes, it is, because I'm the householder and you're the burglar.
34
Jun 03, 2009 at 08:28 PM Milhouse Says:
“ #2,
Really ? most of my family over 16 can shoot, its america.. buy a gun and defwnd yourself and family and stop with "what will the goyim say" i say "eat lead"
2nd, what about the jewish lives lost in eretz yisrael due to this ?? huh huh huh huh
kenst du gornisht farshtein ? shtik drek iz altz... bist epes neturei karta ? ”
No, the opposite. I'm pretty sure this is our old friend Mr "gadolim", or one of his friends. The man is not a shomer torah umitzvos, and I wonder whether he's even Jewish.
35
Jun 03, 2009 at 08:48 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Then we should boycott their music unless they publicly denounce these hateful words by their father?? ”
No, you should boycott yourself, and not feed yourself or give yourself any water. Just for a week or two.
36
Jun 03, 2009 at 08:47 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Unless you don't know, Moment was founded by Ellie Weisel so obviously the magazine has great importance to all jews. Your arrogance is not in accordance with how torah scholars would address someone whose views they disagree with. ”
Why would being founded by Weisel make it important to anybody except him? Weisel is not important to all Jews, and nor is his junk magazine.
37
Jun 03, 2009 at 08:41 PM Milhouse Says:
“ solid and sensible opinion from a secular point of view , this should be the common sense thinking of anybody not yet brainwashed by liberlisem . however from a torah perspective you should not be allowed to kill the innocent even in case of them being a human shield while their people attack you . ”
Where does the Torah say that? On the contrary, from a torah perspective a nefesh achas miyisroel is worth more than any number of theirs.
38
Jun 03, 2009 at 09:31 PM Anonymous Says:
kenst du gornisht farshtein ? shtik drek iz altz... bist epes neturei karta ? ”
This poster is likely not from neturei karta since most of them would not be reading "Moment" magazaine or even be on VIN. Having said that, I still think rav friedman's comments were stupid and his retraction and apology were the right thing to do.
39
Jun 03, 2009 at 09:23 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Rabbi Manis Friedman is the brother of Jewish Music Superstar Avraham Fried as well as the father of the new up and coming jewish music star Benny Friedman who's debut album will be hitting the stores very soon. ”
what dos that have to do with anything?
40
Jun 03, 2009 at 10:35 PM Anonymous Says:
"The fundamental difference between us and them is that we are fighting for our right to exist in peace in our land, and they are fighting to expel us from it and steal it from us. If you break into my house I can shoot you dead and not be charged with anything, while if you lay a finger on me you will be charged with assault. Is that fair? Yes, it is, because I'm the householder and you're the burglar."
You've proven my point once again. Your paragraph would make more sense than it does now if you were a Palestinian writing to defend suicide bombings to drive the Israelis out of your land. In case you are entirely unaware of international law, you're squatting on their land and not vice-versa.
41
Jun 03, 2009 at 10:12 PM esther Says:
“ "In general, all civilians of a warring group support their soldiers. Palestinian civilians have served as human shields to prevent Israeli soldiers from firing on terrorists. There is also no guarantee that you will win until the enemy is totally and utterly defeated. Logic dictates that only a full fledged attack on those that attack us is reasonable to insure the safety of our own. This is just, moral and required for any group to survive."
Good, so don't whine when the Palestinians blow up buses and pizza stores. After all, the only way for them to get their land back is not to distinguish between the Israeli government and the now guilty by common nationality civilians. Amazing how the right wing Jews are always the same people who would be suicide bomb supporting Palestinians if only they were born to another mother. ”
what you don't get is that in any conflict each side thinks it's right.the nazis were sure they were right;does that mean the allies should have dealt with them in a more compassionate manner?do you want to defeat our enemy or chat with them?chatting has ONLY led to jewish deaths RL.
42
Jun 03, 2009 at 09:49 PM Anonymous Says:
“ what dos that have to do with anything? ”
He is confused...one is FRIED and the other is FRIEDMAN..they are obviously not brothers.
43
Jun 03, 2009 at 10:56 PM Milhouse Says:
“ "The fundamental difference between us and them is that we are fighting for our right to exist in peace in our land, and they are fighting to expel us from it and steal it from us. If you break into my house I can shoot you dead and not be charged with anything, while if you lay a finger on me you will be charged with assault. Is that fair? Yes, it is, because I'm the householder and you're the burglar."
You've proven my point once again. Your paragraph would make more sense than it does now if you were a Palestinian writing to defend suicide bombings to drive the Israelis out of your land. In case you are entirely unaware of international law, you're squatting on their land and not vice-versa. ”
First of all, that's not true. Second, who gives a s**t about "international law"? It's OUR LAND. If you don't believe that you have no business on this site, and your opinion is of no interest to anyone here.
44
Jun 03, 2009 at 11:09 PM mendy in midwest Says:
“ No where did the Rebbe write that his words were irresposible. Don't misquote! ”
he ment to write RABBY!!!
i'm sure
and BTW this should go under the rules of "halacha veein morin "
= it may be EMES, but men darf nit ouuiszugen to the whole world
45
Jun 03, 2009 at 10:57 PM Anonymous Says:
“ No, Rabbi Friedman didn't "say in retrospect that his words were 'irresponsible,'" so don't put words in his mouth and attack him for them. He's saying, if anything, that Moment Magazine were the irresponsible ones: "my answer, as published, is misleading. For it is, in truth, an answer to a different question."
And really, what risk has he created? Were there no Palestinian and other terrorists bent on harming Jews (G-d forbid) until this article was published? ”
Go to the Friedman's website (link in article)...the last sentence of his retraction/clarification states as follows:
".....Furthermore, some of the words I used in my brief comment were IRRESPONSIBLE, and I look forward to further clarifying them in a future issue"
46
Jun 03, 2009 at 10:57 PM tzoorba Says:
“ "The fundamental difference between us and them is that we are fighting for our right to exist in peace in our land, and they are fighting to expel us from it and steal it from us. If you break into my house I can shoot you dead and not be charged with anything, while if you lay a finger on me you will be charged with assault. Is that fair? Yes, it is, because I'm the householder and you're the burglar."
You've proven my point once again. Your paragraph would make more sense than it does now if you were a Palestinian writing to defend suicide bombings to drive the Israelis out of your land. In case you are entirely unaware of international law, you're squatting on their land and not vice-versa. ”
There were no separate Palestinian people before the 6 day war. Gaza was part of Egypt and the West bank was part of Jordan. The so called Palestinians had no complaint living as residents under their Arab masters.
Israel conquered this land in a defensive war and by international law has every right to it. It is the fictional Palestinian people that have made a false claim to it.
We own this land since biblical times and even according to current law it's ours. It's a fiction and a lie to say otherwise. The Palestinians are wrong and evil on all counts.
47
Jun 03, 2009 at 10:51 PM Shlomo Says:
“ what dos that have to do with anything? ”
Never said it had anything to do with the topic at hand. Just throwing up some human interest (possibly)information. Take it as you wish. Brocho V'Hatzlohco!!! And just remember, no jew will be left behind.
48
Jun 03, 2009 at 09:01 PM Anonymous Says:
“ No, Rabbi Friedman didn't "say in retrospect that his words were 'irresponsible,'" so don't put words in his mouth and attack him for them. He's saying, if anything, that Moment Magazine were the irresponsible ones: "my answer, as published, is misleading. For it is, in truth, an answer to a different question."
And really, what risk has he created? Were there no Palestinian and other terrorists bent on harming Jews (G-d forbid) until this article was published? ”
Exactly! "My answer, as published, is misleading. For it is, in truth, an answer to a different question".
That's all we need to know, but as usual everyone has to add nonsense here.
Rabbi manis Friedman is a mentsch, pure and simple.
49
Jun 03, 2009 at 08:59 PM Charlie Hall Says:
Chabad-Lubavich officially opposes Rabbi Friedman's comments:
"Regarding recent comments made by Rabbi Manis Friedman in response to a question posed by Moment Magazine, we vehemently disagree with any sentiment suggesting that Judaism allows for the wanton destruction of civilian life, even when at war.
In keeping with Jewish law, it is the unequivocal position of Chabad-Lubavitch that all human life is G-d given, precious, and must be treated with respect, dignity and compassion.
Statements and opinions expressed by individuals do not necessarily reflect the position of the Chabad-Lubavitch movement. Lubavitch World Headquarters is the only office authorized to speak on behalf of the movement."
http://lubavitch.com/news/article/2026334/Statement-By-Chabad-Lubavitch-World-Headquarters.html
50
Jun 03, 2009 at 11:27 PM Anonymous Says:
“ First of all, that's not true. Second, who gives a s**t about "international law"? It's OUR LAND. If you don't believe that you have no business on this site, and your opinion is of no interest to anyone here. ”
Its not clear to me that "international law" clearly supports Palestinian claims that EY is "occupying" their land. However, your consistent assertions that anyone who doesn't agree with YOUR OPINION is of no interest to anyone on VIN is meshuga. There is no censorship here and a respectful debate makes this website so special. Why do you feel it necessary to attack anyone whose shows your lack of midos and daas torah.
51
Jun 04, 2009 at 03:52 AM Anonymous Says:
whats the problem its obvious the magazine was lying as usual with these leftists
52
Jun 04, 2009 at 03:16 AM hersh Says:
#42 avrom fried shortened his last name from friedman to fried
53
Jun 04, 2009 at 01:16 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Its not clear to me that "international law" clearly supports Palestinian claims that EY is "occupying" their land. However, your consistent assertions that anyone who doesn't agree with YOUR OPINION is of no interest to anyone on VIN is meshuga. There is no censorship here and a respectful debate makes this website so special. Why do you feel it necessary to attack anyone whose shows your lack of midos and daas torah. ”
I have never claimed that anyone has to agree with me. But everyone does have to agree with the unequivocal position of the Torah. This is not an atheist site, where people are free to discuss whether the Torah is true, whether God exists, etc. This is a site for "the Orthodox Jewish community"; i.e. those who accept without question that God exists, and the Torah is valid and binding; that is the background against which all discussions take place. And the Torah says with no possibility of doubt that Eretz Yisroel belongs to the Jewish nation. Anyone who doesn't agree with that has no business on this site at all.
54
Jun 04, 2009 at 01:12 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Chabad-Lubavich officially opposes Rabbi Friedman's comments:
"Regarding recent comments made by Rabbi Manis Friedman in response to a question posed by Moment Magazine, we vehemently disagree with any sentiment suggesting that Judaism allows for the wanton destruction of civilian life, even when at war.
In keeping with Jewish law, it is the unequivocal position of Chabad-Lubavitch that all human life is G-d given, precious, and must be treated with respect, dignity and compassion.
Statements and opinions expressed by individuals do not necessarily reflect the position of the Chabad-Lubavitch movement. Lubavitch World Headquarters is the only office authorized to speak on behalf of the movement."
http://lubavitch.com/news/article/2026334/Statement-By-Chabad-Lubavitch-World-Headquarters.html ”
No, it doesn't. Note the word "wanton" in there. In any case, who cares what lubavitch.com thinks? It's not as if Friedman claimed he was speaking for Chabad. He was giving his own opinion, which is every bit as authoritative as Krinsky's or Shemtov's or anyone else's. Being "official spokesman" doesn't make Krinsky an expert at anything; it's just a bureaucratic job. Someone has to be the one to deliver official statements to the press, and he's it; but he has no more authority to make policy than anyone else.
55
Jun 04, 2009 at 01:04 AM Milhouse Says:
“ He is confused...one is FRIED and the other is FRIEDMAN..they are obviously not brothers. ”
Yes, they are. The only one who is confused here is you.
56
Jun 04, 2009 at 01:02 AM daughter of Moshe Says:
WHH
Mr. Millhouse, if someone breaks into your house to steal and you shoot him dead, indeed you can be charged with murder or manslaughter. The law in most states of the U.S. is that only like force can be used to defend yourself as a civilian householder, meaning that if an unarmed intruder enters your home to steal, you are only permitted to remove him not kill him. In Israel things are a bit different. An arab intruder is assumed to have malicious intent upon entering a Jewish home and many have been shot dead doing so with no further charges brought aside from the usual finding of fact. Many of the recent terror attacks in Jerusalem have been stopped due to the quick thinking and sound judgement of armed civilians or off duty soldiers, some, even overruling the police presence. Indeed, the State attempted to charge the heroic young reserve recruit who shot the driver of a careening bulldozer down the central boulevard of rechov yaffo. there was public outrage at this despicable act, nevertheless, they attempted to try him.No-one here in Israel relies on the standard blue uniformed police officer to protect them. Their function is solely to harass the citizenry.
57
Jun 04, 2009 at 12:04 AM Anonymous Says:
such a out when a jew says we should kill arabs... no one says hoot when arabs say to kill jews which is everyday. this rabbi is right we r not sheep for slaughter mayb the arabs would stop if they got a little shlek from a jew.
58
Jun 03, 2009 at 11:38 PM Anonymous Says:
“ He is confused...one is FRIED and the other is FRIEDMAN..they are obviously not brothers. ”
No, they are k'ah well known, they are both friedmans and the singer shortened his name for business. They are frum aideleh chevra, only looking to do good, really. Not proper to bash them!
59
Jun 03, 2009 at 11:29 PM Anonymous Says:
“ He is confused...one is FRIED and the other is FRIEDMAN..they are obviously not brothers. ”
They ARE brothers. The rebbe (Manis) im Minnesota simply added an "man" to his real family name (Abraham) Fried. You will notice on the rebbe's website he prominently displays and markets his brother's CDs.
60
Jun 04, 2009 at 08:10 AM chesky Says:
“ This rebbe is either senile or simply totally irresponible by creating a risk to the lives of yiddin everyewhere in the world by his stupid comments. While he says in retrospect his words were "irresponsible", that understates the damage he has done and cannot be undone with his backhanded and feeble efforts at an apology. Such a man should be removed immediately from any involvment with educating yiddeshe children. ”
how dare you.?, manis friedman is a great thinker, a great chosid, and has created more baaly teshuvas, than anyone i know.
he is a Tzadik, and you should ask mechila on this site.
He has many lectures, and talks and has ability to explain complex ideas of torah, hence his following of 1000's around the world.
no doubt in my mind have they taken his words out of context.
Manis is the read deal.
[of course if you sit in kolel all day and never try to spread yidishkit around they will never take your words out of context since you wont make an impact at all.
61
Jun 04, 2009 at 07:58 AM not true Says:
“ "we have our own yigal amirs and baruch goldsteins"
WHAT? As far as I know there was only one Yigal Amir, a young gullible fellow who was totally remote controled by secular GSS plant Raviv AKA "shimpanya", and one Baruch Goldstein, a gentle devoted physician who treated "Palestinians" patients just like his Jewish ones. The trauma of treating seriously wounded victims from several succesive horrific terrorist act, took its toll. He obviously snapped and did what he did.
I'm not justifiying his actions, since I can't know if his actions eventualy saved Jewish lives or not. My point is in all honesty you can't even use these two as an extreme, rare exeption.
given the facts on the ground ”
you are right that baruch goldstein snapped and lost it; but it's well known that yigal amir did what he did because his rav had gotten up in shiurim and stated that rabin had a din rodef, which amir then took seriously as a psak din. also, you are dead wrong that there is only one amir; there is a whole group of these type of people, you just don't hear about them b/c baruch hashem they are very rare and very much on the fringe, but also because none of them has ever succeeded in carrying out an attack, they always get arrested beforehand. and those groups all base themselves off of out-of-context statements by rabbonim.
62
Jun 04, 2009 at 08:47 AM Milhouse Says:
“ They ARE brothers. The rebbe (Manis) im Minnesota simply added an "man" to his real family name (Abraham) Fried. You will notice on the rebbe's website he prominently displays and markets his brother's CDs. ”
Um, no. Don't speak of what you know nothing about.
63
Jun 04, 2009 at 08:56 AM Milhouse Says:
“ WHH
Mr. Millhouse, if someone breaks into your house to steal and you shoot him dead, indeed you can be charged with murder or manslaughter. The law in most states of the U.S. is that only like force can be used to defend yourself as a civilian householder, meaning that if an unarmed intruder enters your home to steal, you are only permitted to remove him not kill him. In Israel things are a bit different. An arab intruder is assumed to have malicious intent upon entering a Jewish home and many have been shot dead doing so with no further charges brought aside from the usual finding of fact. Many of the recent terror attacks in Jerusalem have been stopped due to the quick thinking and sound judgement of armed civilians or off duty soldiers, some, even overruling the police presence. Indeed, the State attempted to charge the heroic young reserve recruit who shot the driver of a careening bulldozer down the central boulevard of rechov yaffo. there was public outrage at this despicable act, nevertheless, they attempted to try him.No-one here in Israel relies on the standard blue uniformed police officer to protect them. Their function is solely to harass the citizenry. ”
If someone breaks into my house I can assume that he is dangerous. I do not have to determine whether he's armed and what his intentions are before defending myself and my family.
64
Jun 04, 2009 at 09:18 AM Anonymous Says:
When the liberals get upset about Arabs threatening Jews both in and out of Israel, then I'll take their opinions seriously. Until then, they have no credibility ...
65
Jun 04, 2009 at 10:19 AM Anonymous Says:
"The fundamental difference between us and them is that we are fighting for our right to exist in peace in our land, and they are fighting to expel us from it and steal it from us. If you break into my house I can shoot you dead and not be charged with anything, while if you lay a finger on me you will be charged with assault."
Oy vey! The din rodef requires not killing the rodef when possible. Also, it does not allow killing innocent bystanders. You voice opinions contrary to our holy torah and shouldn't be allowed to comment on this site which is for Orthodox Jewish people who think like me and not you.
66
Jun 04, 2009 at 10:12 AM Anonymous Says:
"This is not an atheist site, where people are free to discuss whether the Torah is true, whether God exists, etc. This is a site for "the Orthodox Jewish community"; i.e. those who accept without question that God exists, and the Torah is valid and binding; that is the background against which all discussions take place. And the Torah says with no possibility of doubt that Eretz Yisroel belongs to the Jewish nation. Anyone who doesn't agree with that has no business on this site at all."
As usual, you would make a wonderful fundamentalist Imam. I'm not sure who appointed you official arbiter of what belongs on VIN. As it happens, though, you are incorrect, and I'm sure the Satmar Rav would have taken exception to you characterization of what is so clear to you in the Torah.
67
Jun 04, 2009 at 11:36 AM Milhouse Says:
“ "This is not an atheist site, where people are free to discuss whether the Torah is true, whether God exists, etc. This is a site for "the Orthodox Jewish community"; i.e. those who accept without question that God exists, and the Torah is valid and binding; that is the background against which all discussions take place. And the Torah says with no possibility of doubt that Eretz Yisroel belongs to the Jewish nation. Anyone who doesn't agree with that has no business on this site at all."
As usual, you would make a wonderful fundamentalist Imam. I'm not sure who appointed you official arbiter of what belongs on VIN. As it happens, though, you are incorrect, and I'm sure the Satmar Rav would have taken exception to you characterization of what is so clear to you in the Torah. ”
When did I claim to be an "official arbiter"? It's a site for "the Orthodox Jewish community"; everybody knows what that means. The Torah says that Eretz Yisroel belongs to the Jews and not to the Arabs, and ANYBODY who says the opposite is not an Orthodox Jew.
68
Jun 04, 2009 at 04:00 PM Shlomo Says:
“ He is confused...one is FRIED and the other is FRIEDMAN..they are obviously not brothers. ”
Not confused at all. You obviously don't know that Avraham Fried only uses that name professionally as a singer. In real life he is Avraham Friedman, Rabbi Manis Friedman's younger brother. Look it up on wikipedia or the like. You are ignorant. Don't call people confused when you don't know the facts.
69
Jun 04, 2009 at 05:14 PM moish Says:
“ solid and sensible opinion from a secular point of view , this should be the common sense thinking of anybody not yet brainwashed by liberlisem . however from a torah perspective you should not be allowed to kill the innocent even in case of them being a human shield while their people attack you . ”
wrong, if they are not letting you defend yourself against someone that wants to kill you than they are a rodef.
70
Jun 04, 2009 at 05:12 PM moish Says:
“ If someone breaks into my house I can assume that he is dangerous. I do not have to determine whether he's armed and what his intentions are before defending myself and my family. ”
chazak ve'emotz, keep going. just this point is incorrect though, only habo bamachteres do we say is for sure coming al iskei nefoshos, on the other hand maybe this is only by a jew.
71
Jun 04, 2009 at 05:19 PM moish Says:
“ "In general, all civilians of a warring group support their soldiers. Palestinian civilians have served as human shields to prevent Israeli soldiers from firing on terrorists. There is also no guarantee that you will win until the enemy is totally and utterly defeated. Logic dictates that only a full fledged attack on those that attack us is reasonable to insure the safety of our own. This is just, moral and required for any group to survive."
Good, so don't whine when the Palestinians blow up buses and pizza stores. After all, the only way for them to get their land back is not to distinguish between the Israeli government and the now guilty by common nationality civilians. Amazing how the right wing Jews are always the same people who would be suicide bomb supporting Palestinians if only they were born to another mother. ”
"the only way for them to get their land back" since when is that an excuse for killing [that is if it would be true], we kill them to save ourselves from being killed.
72
Jun 04, 2009 at 08:01 PM Anonymous Says:
""the only way for them to get their land back" since when is that an excuse for killing [that is if it would be true], we kill them to save ourselves from being killed."
In case you missed it, the guy you just encouraged to continue with his drivel argued that killing people to get them out of your house is ok:
"The fundamental difference between us and them is that we are fighting for our right to exist in peace in our land, and they are fighting to expel us from it and steal it from us. If you break into my house I can shoot you dead and not be charged with anything, while if you lay a finger on me you will be charged with assault. Is that fair? Yes, it is, because I'm the householder and you're the burglar."
73
Jun 04, 2009 at 09:00 PM Anonymous Says:
""the only way for them to get their land back" since when is that an excuse for killing [that is if it would be true], we kill them to save ourselves from being killed."
In case you missed it, the guy you just encouraged to continue with his drivel argued that killing people to get them out of your house is ok:
"The fundamental difference between us and them is that we are fighting for our right to exist in peace in our land, and they are fighting to expel us from it and steal it from us. If you break into my house I can shoot you dead and not be charged with anything, while if you lay a finger on me you will be charged with assault. Is that fair? Yes, it is, because I'm the householder and you're the burglar."
74
Jun 04, 2009 at 11:46 PM tzoorba Says:
“ chazak ve'emotz, keep going. just this point is incorrect though, only habo bamachteres do we say is for sure coming al iskei nefoshos, on the other hand maybe this is only by a jew. ”
What do you think bo bimachteres is? It means someone that tries to sneak into your house to steal something.
Kal vechomer someone who comes directly in steal.
75
Jun 04, 2009 at 11:33 PM moish Says:
“ ""the only way for them to get their land back" since when is that an excuse for killing [that is if it would be true], we kill them to save ourselves from being killed."
In case you missed it, the guy you just encouraged to continue with his drivel argued that killing people to get them out of your house is ok:
"The fundamental difference between us and them is that we are fighting for our right to exist in peace in our land, and they are fighting to expel us from it and steal it from us. If you break into my house I can shoot you dead and not be charged with anything, while if you lay a finger on me you will be charged with assault. Is that fair? Yes, it is, because I'm the householder and you're the burglar." ”
on this point i already disagreed with him in comment 70
76
Jun 05, 2009 at 03:23 AM Milhouse Says:
“ ""the only way for them to get their land back" since when is that an excuse for killing [that is if it would be true], we kill them to save ourselves from being killed."
In case you missed it, the guy you just encouraged to continue with his drivel argued that killing people to get them out of your house is ok:
"The fundamental difference between us and them is that we are fighting for our right to exist in peace in our land, and they are fighting to expel us from it and steal it from us. If you break into my house I can shoot you dead and not be charged with anything, while if you lay a finger on me you will be charged with assault. Is that fair? Yes, it is, because I'm the householder and you're the burglar." ”
Do you deny that it's OK to shoot a burglar?
77
Jun 05, 2009 at 03:23 AM Milhouse Says:
“ on this point i already disagreed with him in comment 70 ”
And you were wrong.
78
Jun 05, 2009 at 03:22 AM Milhouse Says:
“ chazak ve'emotz, keep going. just this point is incorrect though, only habo bamachteres do we say is for sure coming al iskei nefoshos, on the other hand maybe this is only by a jew. ”
"Bo bamachteres" means a burglar. It doesn't matter how he gained access to your home, or what time of day it is. In the days of stone houses sitting on bare earth, tunneling was a common method of housebreaking.
79
Jun 05, 2009 at 02:26 AM moish Says:
“ What do you think bo bimachteres is? It means someone that tries to sneak into your house to steal something.
Kal vechomer someone who comes directly in steal. ”
Not muchach, see s'ma 425:6 where it is mashma that if he comes in the open he is not intending to kill, but yes i agree it is debatable, the bottom line is if there is a chashash on your life you may kill him.
80
Jun 05, 2009 at 01:59 AM moish Says:
“ ""the only way for them to get their land back" since when is that an excuse for killing [that is if it would be true], we kill them to save ourselves from being killed."
In case you missed it, the guy you just encouraged to continue with his drivel argued that killing people to get them out of your house is ok:
"The fundamental difference between us and them is that we are fighting for our right to exist in peace in our land, and they are fighting to expel us from it and steal it from us. If you break into my house I can shoot you dead and not be charged with anything, while if you lay a finger on me you will be charged with assault. Is that fair? Yes, it is, because I'm the householder and you're the burglar." ”
There is no comparison, milhouse was saying that if their is a threat to your life when he comes in to your territory you may kill him, no one is threatening the palestinians lives, if someone had already taken over your house and you are outside noone is claiming that you may kill them to get it back.
81
Jun 05, 2009 at 12:11 AM Mendy in Midwest Says:
“ #42 avrom fried shortened his last name from friedman to fried ”
to 42 and 52
Fried is his stage name
he goes by Avrohom Friedman as Person
and Fried as a Singer
and in post 44 iment to write Rabbi
82
Jun 07, 2009 at 02:44 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Not muchach, see s'ma 425:6 where it is mashma that if he comes in the open he is not intending to kill, but yes i agree it is debatable, the bottom line is if there is a chashash on your life you may kill him. ”
ואחד הבא במחתרת, או גנב שנמצא בתוך גגו של אדם, או בתוך חצרו, או בתוך קרפפו--בין ביום בין בלילה. ולמה נאמר "במחתרת" (שמות כב,א), לפי שדרך רוב הגנבים לבוא במחתרת בלילה.