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Brazil - Bodies, Debris Retrieved From Air France Crash

Published on:   Jun 06, 2009 at 08:42 PM
News Source:  Reuters
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Brazil navy looking for debris. photo credit Brazil navy
Brazil navy looking for debris. photo credit Brazil navy
Brazil - Brazilian search crews on Saturday retrieved the first bodies from a crashed Air France flight in the Atlantic, and investigators said faulty speed readings had been found on the same type of jets.

Navy ships found the bodies of two men and debris including a blue seat with a serial number matching Air France Flight 447, a rucksack containing a vaccination card, and a briefcase with an Air France ticket inside, rescue officials said.

"This morning at 8:14 a.m., we confirmed the rescue from the water of pieces and bodies that belonged to the Air France flight," air force spokesman Jorge Amaral told reporters in the northeastern Brazilian city of Recife.

Brazilian air force planes and navy ships have been scouring a swathe of the Atlantic about 1,100 km (683 miles) northeast of Brazil's coast since the Airbus A330-200 plane disappeared on Monday, killing all 228 people on board.

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The crash of the flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris was the world's deadliest air disaster since 2001 and the worst in Air France's 75-year history.

Rescuers, who said that only family members will be informed of the identity of the corpses, believe many bodies could have sunk or been devoured by sharks.

Searchers previously had retrieved debris from the ocean that turned out to be unrelated to the crash.

French investigators trying to establish the cause of the crash said on Saturday that Airbus had detected faulty speed readings on its A330 jets before last week and had recommended that clients replace a sensor.

AIR FRANCE CHANGING SENSORS

Air France later issued a statement saying it had begun changing airspeed sensors on Airbus long-haul aircraft due to icing fears five weeks before the crash, but only after failing to agree on a fix with Airbus.

Investigators are considering the possibility that the speed sensors on Flight 447 may have iced up, resulting in faulty readings that caused the pilots to set the plane at a dangerous speed as it passed thunderstorms.

But the head of France's air accident agency (BEA) said in a news conference in France that it was too soon to say if problems with the pressure-based speed sensors were in any way responsible for the disaster.

"Some of the sensors (on the A330) were earmarked to be changed ... but that does not mean that without these replacement parts, the (Air France) plane would have been defective," BEA chief Paul-Louis Arslanian said.

Brazil navy looking for debris
Brazil navy looking for debris

Airbus confirmed it issued a bulletin asking the plane's 50 or so airline operators to consider changing the speed sensors, known as Pitot tubes, but it said it was an optional measure to improve performance and not related to safety.

In its statement on Saturday, Air France said it began noticing airspeed problems from icing on both A330 and A340 planes in May 2008 and had requested a solution from Airbus.

According to Air France, Airbus proposed testing different sensors despite earlier doubting that they would resolve the problem, but the airline declined to wait and started changing them from April 27. Airbus was not immediately available to comment.

FLURRY OF MESSAGES

The doomed Air France plane sent 24 automated messages in a span of four minutes indicating a series of system failures before it vanished, Arslanian said.

In the middle of this stream of data was one message showing inconsistent speed readings from the A330's sensors, investigators said.

The messages also showed that the autopilot was off, though it was impossible to say whether it had disengaged itself, as it is designed to do when it receives suspect data, or whether the pilot had decided to turn it off, Arslanian said.

Airbus issued a reminder on Thursday that pilots should follow standard procedures -- to maintain flight speed and angle -- if they thought their speed indicators were faulty.

Meteorological experts said the jet crossed a storm zone but that the weather did not seem to pose a particular threat.

Investigators have said they are not optimistic that they will be able to locate the plane's flight recorders, which could provide vital information about the cause of the crash.

The search zone is a relatively uncharted patch of ocean that has deep ravines and a fine, muddy sediment.

France is sending a nuclear-powered submarine to try to locate the two flight recorders, which could be at a depth of anywhere between 2,835 and 13,120 feet, said Laurent Kerleguer, the French navy's deputy head of hydrography.


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Read Comments (16)  —  Post Yours »

1

 Jun 06, 2009 at 09:08 PM awsome Says:

lets hope they find the body of the jewish man so his wife is not an aguna

2

 Jun 06, 2009 at 09:32 PM stupid!!! Says:


Reply to #1....the hope to find the jewish men is not because his wife ....its because the NASHUMAH of this fellow jew needs to come to kever yisroel....its a very big pain for the neshumah as long as its not buried...I am not a poisek but I don't thing his wife is a ocean...if its confirmed that it sank into the ocean then she is not ogunah

3

 Jun 06, 2009 at 10:11 PM Yidish Kind Says:

Reply to #2  
stupid!!! Says:


Reply to #1....the hope to find the jewish men is not because his wife ....its because the NASHUMAH of this fellow jew needs to come to kever yisroel....its a very big pain for the neshumah as long as its not buried...I am not a poisek but I don't thing his wife is a ocean...if its confirmed that it sank into the ocean then she is not ogunah

If the body is in water, that's also kever yisroel. But it makes it more painful for the family not to have a tzion to go to. The hope does remain though, that as mentioned in the article, the body shouldn't be consumed by creatures of the sea, rch"l.

4

 Jun 06, 2009 at 10:10 PM to awesome Says:

"awesome"?? poor choice of words there..there's nothing awesome about this although it's better than nothing...

Also, I trust Jewish law to be better than demanding retrieval of the body as the onlyway to prevent an aguna case. If this is not good enough proof than (which I fully trust Jewish law would hold it is) I would find the laws utterly flawed.

5

 Jun 06, 2009 at 10:09 PM the Yid is suffering! Says:

the neshama stays near the body as long as it is not buried!

the Neshama/Soul is awake and conscious!! it is the mind in the brain which continues to think even after it detaches from the brain!

ppl dont realize how the neshama is in fact the part of us which sees using the eyes but once out of the body it still has sight only with restraint bc its free from the body!

6

 Jun 06, 2009 at 10:25 PM moish Says:

Reply to 3
Who says that being in water is also called kever yisroel? Are you taking it from some where?

7

 Jun 06, 2009 at 10:20 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #2  
stupid!!! Says:


Reply to #1....the hope to find the jewish men is not because his wife ....its because the NASHUMAH of this fellow jew needs to come to kever yisroel....its a very big pain for the neshumah as long as its not buried...I am not a poisek but I don't thing his wife is a ocean...if its confirmed that it sank into the ocean then she is not ogunah

that only works if they have beis-din worthy confirmation that he boarded the plane.

8

 Jun 07, 2009 at 12:35 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #6  
moish Says:

Reply to 3
Who says that being in water is also called kever yisroel? Are you taking it from some where?

מבשן אשיב מבין שיני אריה אשיב ממצולות ים אלו שטובעין בים

Gittin 57b

9

 Jun 07, 2009 at 06:44 AM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #4  
to awesome Says:

"awesome"?? poor choice of words there..there's nothing awesome about this although it's better than nothing...

Also, I trust Jewish law to be better than demanding retrieval of the body as the onlyway to prevent an aguna case. If this is not good enough proof than (which I fully trust Jewish law would hold it is) I would find the laws utterly flawed.

That's not the way to talk.......

10

 Jun 07, 2009 at 02:46 AM to number 5 Says:

please enlighten us with some marei mekomos ..........

11

 Jun 07, 2009 at 09:33 AM Anonymous Says:

It's sick to think that frum Jews believe a yiddishe neshumeh is in pain because of a technical issue.

12

 Jun 07, 2009 at 11:34 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #11  
Anonymous Says:

It's sick to think that frum Jews believe a yiddishe neshumeh is in pain because of a technical issue.

What's sick about it? If I were to cut you with a knife, you would feel pain, and you wouldn't think it was a "technical issue".

13

 Jun 07, 2009 at 12:18 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #11  
Anonymous Says:

It's sick to think that frum Jews believe a yiddishe neshumeh is in pain because of a technical issue.

It's also sad, because these stories about how the soul is hurting, etc. if the body is not properly buried just creates unnecessary pain for the family. What about the six million who didn't get a proper burial or were cremated? Are they saying that Hashem isn't powerful enough to comfort and welcome a neshama because the body was burned or lost at sea? I chose to believe in a more loving G-d.

14

 Jun 07, 2009 at 04:08 PM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #13  
Anonymous Says:

It's also sad, because these stories about how the soul is hurting, etc. if the body is not properly buried just creates unnecessary pain for the family. What about the six million who didn't get a proper burial or were cremated? Are they saying that Hashem isn't powerful enough to comfort and welcome a neshama because the body was burned or lost at sea? I chose to believe in a more loving G-d.

What has a loving G-d got to do with it? He can comfort them all He likes, but unless He performs a miracle it won't change the fact that they didn't come to kever yisroel, and were ch"v molested by fish, etc. This is a sad thing, and it hurts the person. Even the normal worms that attack anybody (except a tzadik) hurt; kal vachomer such a thing. That's why we hope they can find the yid's body and bring him to kever yisroel; but if that's impossible, then at least let's hope there is solid evidence that he boarded the plane and couldn't have survived, so his wife won't be an agunah.

15

 Jun 07, 2009 at 05:58 PM Anonymous Says:

Reply to #14  
Milhouse Says:

What has a loving G-d got to do with it? He can comfort them all He likes, but unless He performs a miracle it won't change the fact that they didn't come to kever yisroel, and were ch"v molested by fish, etc. This is a sad thing, and it hurts the person. Even the normal worms that attack anybody (except a tzadik) hurt; kal vachomer such a thing. That's why we hope they can find the yid's body and bring him to kever yisroel; but if that's impossible, then at least let's hope there is solid evidence that he boarded the plane and couldn't have survived, so his wife won't be an agunah.

Once you are dead, how is a body being eaten by a fish different than a body slowing being eaten by bacteria? Unless you want to be embalmed, we all are going to end up with our flesh decomposed. You should not be sending a message to the family that there is somehow something more hurtful for the deceased's soul by not having a traditional burial. Death of a loved one is hard enough to deal with without lots of superstition making things worse.

16

 Jun 08, 2009 at 12:27 AM Milhouse Says:

Reply to #15  
Anonymous Says:

Once you are dead, how is a body being eaten by a fish different than a body slowing being eaten by bacteria? Unless you want to be embalmed, we all are going to end up with our flesh decomposed. You should not be sending a message to the family that there is somehow something more hurtful for the deceased's soul by not having a traditional burial. Death of a loved one is hard enough to deal with without lots of superstition making things worse.

Superstition? I suppose you believe it's also a superstition that a dead person hurts when worms eat the body. The gemoro's word is not enough for you. What else is a superstition? The mabul? Yetzias mitzrayim? Matan torah? Chanukah? Purim?

17

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