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Jerusalem - Protest Shabbos Leaders: No Compromise With Mayor |
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Photo: Gil Yohanan
One of the suggestions made at the meeting was to open an alternative parking lot, namely the Karta lot near the Old City. This approach corresponds with the position of Jerusalem District Police Chief Aharon Franco, who recommended Karta over Safra.
Barkat and the councilmen also discussed the circumstances that led to the violent Orthodox rioting on Saturday in Jerusalem. The Karta parking lot, near the Jaffa Gate, is an ideal solution to the masses visiting central Jerusalem over the course of the weekend. It has remained closed on Shabbat thus far due to haredi resistance that this would lead to the opening of stores in the shopping mall above the parking lot.They also feared agreement on their part would be seen as capitulation. Now however, it seems as though the ultra-Orthodox representatives are in favor of the move.
The protest leaders, however, have vowed they will accept no compromise. Predominantly members of Eda Haredit – an anti-Zionist sect – those who organized the protest said that they would fight any attempt to open the Karta lot.
"This will not be allowed to pass – not Karta and not any other place. As long as we're talking about an (authorized) parking lot – it isn't going to happen," Rabbi Yosef Rosenfeld, head of the Committee for Sanctity of Shabbat, told Ynet.
Rabbi Rosenfeld said he was surprised that the haredi councilmen were considering Karta as an alternative seeing as they have already rejected the possibility in the past due to its proximity to a commercial center. Rosenfeld said he believed that if Karta is allowed to open on Shabbat the struggle would be joined by rabbis from the Old City's Jewish Quarter.
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Read Comments (64) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 07, 2009 at 04:05 PM chuchem Says:
thats why we needed MAYOR PORUSH not Barakat
2
Jun 07, 2009 at 04:16 PM We voted for it Says:
The charaidim voted for Barkat against a frum candidate. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU MAKE A DEAL WITH THE ..... You can't have it both ways.
3
Jun 07, 2009 at 04:43 PM Anonymous Says:
porush would have been a disaster for other reasons. lets face it there is non-jews whom visit jerusalem, they need parking why shouldnt it be open on shabbos. i think it was very kind of the mayors office to propose it being free of charge and parking attends arent jews. whats wrong with charaidim?
4
Jun 07, 2009 at 04:32 PM dreamer Says:
maybe .. just maybe
it is totally unacceptable for charedi boys to riot, put others in danger & cause a global - massive - chilul hashem
5
Jun 07, 2009 at 04:23 PM Milhouse Says:
“ The charaidim voted for Barkat against a frum candidate. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU MAKE A DEAL WITH THE ..... You can't have it both ways. ”
What charedim voted for Barkat, apart from Ger? Don't blame the charedim, blame Ger.
6
Jun 07, 2009 at 04:18 PM Anonymous Says:
"This will not be allowed to pass – not Karta and not any other place. As long as we're talking about an (authorized) parking lot – it isn't going to happen," Rabbi Yosef Rosenfeld, head of the Committee for Sanctity of Shabbat, told Ynet"
It will happen, and b'yirtzah hashem, this same Rav who said "the city will burn, will be jailed before he starts another riot. I would rather yidden not drive on shabbos and share my sense of what shabbos should mean but I cannot force my belief on others. This Rav is a danger to the entire population of yerushalayim.
7
Jun 07, 2009 at 04:58 PM Anonymous Says:
the biggist chillil hashem is that most of the commenters are willing to compromise the shaabis
I wonder how many are shommer shabbis
8
Jun 07, 2009 at 05:03 PM Go to sleep Says:
“ maybe .. just maybe
it is totally unacceptable for charedi boys to riot, put others in danger & cause a global - massive - chilul hashem
”
Why is this a chillul hashem ? You can't come like a chicken in the sand and complain . The facts are like this:
Israel is supposedly a JEWISH state
Jerusalem is supposedly a JEWISH municipality
Shabbos is a JEWISH day of rest
Trampling on shabbos with all terutzim is a chillul hashem NOT the other way around
9
Jun 07, 2009 at 05:12 PM golde Says:
“ thats why we needed MAYOR PORUSH not Barakat ”
I am an orthodox Jew, and I have to commend the Mayor for trying to find a solution without imposing his will on the people. The fact that he took time to meet with all concerned shows that he is sincere, and that he wants peace among all the people of Jerusalem.
On the other hand, I find the actions of anti-zionist ultra-orthodox to be appalling and embarassing.
10
Jun 07, 2009 at 05:06 PM Anonymous Says:
this is a huge chilul hashem. forget about charadim. religious people acting like this inexcusable! next time the police should use water cannons, tear gas and rubber bullets. this im sure will end this massive chilul hashem from happening again..
11
Jun 07, 2009 at 05:34 PM dreamer Says:
“ the biggist chillil hashem is that most of the commenters are willing to compromise the shaabis
I wonder how many are shommer shabbis ”
no compromise .. reality .. at most 15% of clal yisrael are shomer shabbos
the remaining 85% must be respected .. and in return they will respect us
lack of respect .. gasus .. behaving like animals ... when did we start allowing such behavior in our children .. why are the roshei yeshiva not speaking out against such behavior ???
12
Jun 07, 2009 at 05:33 PM Oiy Moshiach Says:
A Kiddush Hashem is when we keep the Shabbos / Torah and a Chillul hashem is when we dont keep the Shabbos /Torah .
But since when do we care at all what the World Media or the Frei politicians think?
We dont need the establishment's approval We need the BOSS hkbh. his approval.
We have our values all wrong !! ... Not everything is for sale !!!...
13
Jun 07, 2009 at 05:31 PM Anonymous Says:
“ this is a huge chilul hashem. forget about charadim. religious people acting like this inexcusable! next time the police should use water cannons, tear gas and rubber bullets. this im sure will end this massive chilul hashem from happening again.. ”
Idiot. The police do that as soon as they see frum people gathered. In spite of the outrageous police violenece these people valiantly stand up for kedushas shabbos. Something you do not appreciate.
14
Jun 07, 2009 at 05:22 PM Anonymous Says:
Instead of these Charedim acting like our Hamas cousins
let them try a new approach
If you want to show someone why they should keep Shabbos the fastest way to make sure they will never keep Shabbos or any other mitzvah is to show them how the "holy" charedim act Throwing bottles and rocks at anyone is not a great Kiruv approach
How about inviting them to your Home and show them that Shabbos is not all about rioting on the streets.
I hope the government takes a strong approach and prosecutes anyone caught throwing stones and cuts of any social benefit program they are on Maybe a better idea would be to round up people in Mea Shearim and send them to the Gaza border where they can thow stones all day at our cousins Oh wait They cant b/c they are to busy "learning " so they cant be bitul Torah to go to the army or do anything else productive.
15
Jun 07, 2009 at 06:14 PM Anonymous Says:
“ no compromise .. reality .. at most 15% of clal yisrael are shomer shabbos
the remaining 85% must be respected .. and in return they will respect us
lack of respect .. gasus .. behaving like animals ... when did we start allowing such behavior in our children .. why are the roshei yeshiva not speaking out against such behavior ???
”
What do you mean Respected . I hope you know its a halcha you have to Micah zahn I don't say like animals
16
Jun 07, 2009 at 06:04 PM Meah Shaarim Says:
My yeshiva years in Yerushalayim twenty years ago taught me that the Chassidim in Meah Shaarim live by a set of different rules then any other place in the world. They are kinayim. They feel that if they give an inch to the secular authorities they will end up losing a mile and their tzitzis, tefilin and mezuzas. They really feel that if they give in to anything the secular zionist authority demands they will lose their way of life and their independance. I don't know if this is true, but I understand their rationale. This is the prism that we must look through when we watch these events unfold.
17
Jun 07, 2009 at 05:51 PM kal Says:
i envy their kanaus.i just hope that's what it is.
18
Jun 07, 2009 at 06:31 PM poshiter yiddeneh Says:
Comment on #7: Most COMMENTATORS are willing to compromise the shabbos???!!! Please tell me which s'if in Shulchan Aruch permits one to throw rocks and feces filled diapers on shabbos? How about THAT chillul shabbos? And what about the chilul shabbos these "protestors" (read: "hooligans")forced the police to do in order to rein them in and restore order? They are directly responsible for the chilul shabbos of other yidden. I certainly wouldn't want that on MY record!
19
Jun 07, 2009 at 07:42 PM AuthenticSatmar Says:
I am sick and tired of the liberal double standard.
Us frum people are constantly being told that we have to accept the non frum, yet I don't see anyone calling on the non-religious people to respect the frum.
We are told to accept openly gay relationships, non frum marriages, non frum geirus, pork, chilul shabbos, destruction of kevarim, and more. At what point do we have a right to draw the line?
Imagine if Israel forced their beliefs on the Muslim community, the world would scream.
The protest started calmly and peacefully with a permit. It was the police who incited the crowd and the crowd just reacted accordingly. As any veteran of Israeli protests will tell you, in many cases the police attack a peaceful protest, causing the protesters to fight back, followed by violence. The police want the violence as an excuse to make the frum look bad.
To the commentor saying that they should take away social programs from anyone protesting, would you feel the same regarding the arabs who denounce Israel?.
20
Jun 07, 2009 at 06:53 PM Millhouse Says:
There is no excuse for any Jew to act in an inappropriate manor as was done this past weekend. This will go down in history as most shameful. EY is a democratic country and legitimate descent is acceptable and allowed, however anyone participating in violence or inciting it belongs in jail. This applies to the Rebbes also.
21
Jun 07, 2009 at 06:49 PM Anonymous Says:
it is a chilli hshem b/c we r suppose to act differently and the people who vist israel and people who will read articles about this and see pics of jews acting like animals .thats is why it is a chilli hshem. it is a jewish state but there r plenty of people who come to vist eretz yisroel they need place to park..
22
Jun 07, 2009 at 06:48 PM Anonymous Says:
“ What do you mean Respected . I hope you know its a halcha you have to Micah zahn I don't say like animals ”
When it really hurts you act anyway possible, the problem is it doesn't really hurt.
23
Jun 07, 2009 at 08:29 PM Rebitzen Says:
“ There is no excuse for any Jew to act in an inappropriate manor as was done this past weekend. This will go down in history as most shameful. EY is a democratic country and legitimate descent is acceptable and allowed, however anyone participating in violence or inciting it belongs in jail. This applies to the Rebbes also. ”
The Rebbes should be putting a ban on such protests, but we all know that will never happen. By the way Mr. Millie, I'm glad to see your coming to your senses.
24
Jun 07, 2009 at 08:21 PM Anonymous Says:
“
A Kiddush Hashem is when we keep the Shabbos / Torah and a Chillul hashem is when we dont keep the Shabbos /Torah .
But since when do we care at all what the World Media or the Frei politicians think?
We dont need the establishment's approval We need the BOSS hkbh. his approval.
We have our values all wrong !! ... Not everything is for sale !!!... ”
See Yoma 86 for definition of chillul hashem. When the onlooker says that the behavior of a frum Jew is disgusting, that is a chillul hashem, period. The onlooker makes the decision.
25
Jun 07, 2009 at 08:16 PM SHMIEL GLASSMAN Says:
a few thoughts:
1.YERUSHALAYIM'S ESSENCE IS "INTENSITY"
2. whether these protests sit well with you or not , the fact that around 2million yiddin are shomer shabas out of 13-14 million should bother us very much
3.if allowing a "official govt. entity open on shabbos is a new low & invokes the anger of hashem in a more severe way thats for the gedolei hador to answer
4.what approach should be used has been debated for generations & boils down to the rambam & raavad as to " tochocho" ( giving reproof) is PRINCIPAL oriented or GOAL oriented
5. so much is done in e"y to be mekarev yiddin by so many wonderful org. these protests are 1 piece of a big puzzle
6. i suggest you meet some of the people protesting go to their house for a shabbos,see them daven, ....
may we be zoche to the "YOM SHEKULO SHABBOS"
26
Jun 07, 2009 at 08:36 PM shomer shabbos Says:
Instead of all this back and forth talk, all of you should open your Tanach to Yirmiyahu (Jeremiah) chapter 17 and read from verse21 through verse 27 - and shudder! He describes a far greater threat to Eretz Yisrael than all the Arab terrorists and armies. This is why the chareidim are so frightemed!! and so am I, a modern Orthodox Jew.
27
Jun 07, 2009 at 08:06 PM Anonymous Says:
Don't these idiots realize how important tourism is the Isreael economy. Without tourists (over 1/3 of whom are goyim), hundreds of thousands of Isrealis would have not employment. We should make whatever accomodation is necessary to keep them coming to Yersushalayim. Shabbos is important but so is the economy.
28
Jun 07, 2009 at 08:02 PM Anonymous Says:
When I viewed the video all I saw was that the police were acting violently. I couldn't believe how they attacked that cute little blonde boy. The officers had a look of retzicha on their Jewish? faces.
Isn't their anyway that Yidden could live together peacefully?
29
Jun 07, 2009 at 07:51 PM Shomer Shabbos!!! Says:
“ Instead of these Charedim acting like our Hamas cousins
let them try a new approach
If you want to show someone why they should keep Shabbos the fastest way to make sure they will never keep Shabbos or any other mitzvah is to show them how the "holy" charedim act Throwing bottles and rocks at anyone is not a great Kiruv approach
How about inviting them to your Home and show them that Shabbos is not all about rioting on the streets.
I hope the government takes a strong approach and prosecutes anyone caught throwing stones and cuts of any social benefit program they are on Maybe a better idea would be to round up people in Mea Shearim and send them to the Gaza border where they can thow stones all day at our cousins Oh wait They cant b/c they are to busy "learning " so they cant be bitul Torah to go to the army or do anything else productive. ”
Are you jewish at all? Do you think that Barkat and all his freinds don't know what Shabbos is all about? They're Jewish, and are mechuyav to hold shabbos just like any and every other Jew. He is a "Chotey Umachtey Es Harabim" I don't envy his portion in hell!!! He'll burn even worse than those garbage cans in mea she'arim, and probably even worse than our cousins (as you said) in the Gaza Strip, because they were born to do what they do (although I'm not saying its right) but Nir Barkat and his freinds (read: hooligans) were born to observe and protect Shabbos to its fullest extent! and those people in Meah She'arim who mean it sincere CHAZAK VE'EMUTZ, and hopefully they will all do teshuva, and Moshiach will come fast in our days, Omein!!!
30
Jun 07, 2009 at 10:44 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Are you jewish at all? Do you think that Barkat and all his freinds don't know what Shabbos is all about? They're Jewish, and are mechuyav to hold shabbos just like any and every other Jew. He is a "Chotey Umachtey Es Harabim" I don't envy his portion in hell!!! He'll burn even worse than those garbage cans in mea she'arim, and probably even worse than our cousins (as you said) in the Gaza Strip, because they were born to do what they do (although I'm not saying its right) but Nir Barkat and his freinds (read: hooligans) were born to observe and protect Shabbos to its fullest extent! and those people in Meah She'arim who mean it sincere CHAZAK VE'EMUTZ, and hopefully they will all do teshuva, and Moshiach will come fast in our days, Omein!!! ”
Barkat and and his friends are NOT required under Israeli law to be shomer shabbos or mitzvot. The Mayor does does not even have to be a yid under Isreali law. While EY is a "jewish state", the founders of the state were not frumme and 80 percent of its population is NOT shomer shabbos so I guess you and your hooligan friends in Meah She'arim will have to find another country where your version of yiddeshkeit will also be civil law (hint: its a country from where Osama ben Laden has been hiding and starts with an "A".)
31
Jun 07, 2009 at 10:42 PM The Litvak Yid Says:
“ Instead of all this back and forth talk, all of you should open your Tanach to Yirmiyahu (Jeremiah) chapter 17 and read from verse21 through verse 27 - and shudder! He describes a far greater threat to Eretz Yisrael than all the Arab terrorists and armies. This is why the chareidim are so frightemed!! and so am I, a modern Orthodox Jew. ”
Well said and when people ask how can these Jews break Shabbos isnt that hypocritical? NOT in the least when we believe that we are saving a Jews life. They and I believe with any new Shabbos violations we will face unmentionable death at the hands of our enemies!
32
Jun 07, 2009 at 10:19 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Don't these idiots realize how important tourism is the Isreael economy. Without tourists (over 1/3 of whom are goyim), hundreds of thousands of Isrealis would have not employment. We should make whatever accomodation is necessary to keep them coming to Yersushalayim. Shabbos is important but so is the economy. ”
Shabbos is infinitely more important than the economy. In the long term it is impossible for a Jew to profit from chilul shabbos.
33
Jun 07, 2009 at 10:12 PM Shoel Umashiv Says:
Kol Yisroel arevim zeh lozehh.
means we are responsable for others actions
Orev = Guarantor - a personal guarantee !! Yes We are on the Hook !!
Isn't that a GREAT reason to REALY care and to demonstrate!!??!!
34
Jun 07, 2009 at 10:05 PM Milhouse Says:
“ See Yoma 86 for definition of chillul hashem. When the onlooker says that the behavior of a frum Jew is disgusting, that is a chillul hashem, period. The onlooker makes the decision. ”
If that were the standard we'd have to give up the laws against intermarriage; the law of mamzerus; all our "racist" and "sexist" and "homophobic" laws; oleinu and our intolerance for other religions; retzei, musaf, and korbonos; and lots more.
The standard in Yuma is that chilul hashem is when someone suspects a talmid chochom of violating the halacha. It is not a chilul hashem when someone knows the t"c is keeping the halacha, but disagrees with it. Shlomis bas Divri's son thought he was hard done by, and when he was told that this was indeed the law he gave his opinion about both the law and its Giver. Did that make the law a chilul hashem? No. On the contrary, for expressing his opinion he was killed, and that was the end of his complaint.
35
Jun 07, 2009 at 10:03 PM Boruch N. Hoffinger Says:
“ I am sick and tired of the liberal double standard.
Us frum people are constantly being told that we have to accept the non frum, yet I don't see anyone calling on the non-religious people to respect the frum.
We are told to accept openly gay relationships, non frum marriages, non frum geirus, pork, chilul shabbos, destruction of kevarim, and more. At what point do we have a right to draw the line?
Imagine if Israel forced their beliefs on the Muslim community, the world would scream.
The protest started calmly and peacefully with a permit. It was the police who incited the crowd and the crowd just reacted accordingly. As any veteran of Israeli protests will tell you, in many cases the police attack a peaceful protest, causing the protesters to fight back, followed by violence. The police want the violence as an excuse to make the frum look bad.
To the commentor saying that they should take away social programs from anyone protesting, would you feel the same regarding the arabs who denounce Israel?. ”
BS"D
Authentic Chabanick Says:
Most Yidden who aren't Shomer Torah VeMitzvos according to Rambam are 'Teenoke Shenishba.'
Do the Chareidim go out to teach about the beauty of Torah and Mitzvot? Do they practice Ahavas Yisroel or are they unable to separate the Yid from the 'avera?'
One should remember that the Mitzvah of 'Ahavat Yisroel' requires us to do this.
We think our 'averas' are small, right? So we should think the same about another Yid, no?
If these Yidden are unable to separate the two things and don't go out with love to 'mekarev' other Yidden, all the problems they have are a result of their behavior.
36
Jun 07, 2009 at 09:58 PM jancsibacsi Says:
#29 you guys are just like the taliban want to dominate others by force you dont see youreselfs how much of a joke the world sees you as the biggest fools you are shoite vus di bist talking like a child who is threatening others that they will burn in gehenim look at youre self in the mirror and you will see a person who is a big gurnisht keep on fantasizing youre lifes away its a pity how people can be tottaly brain washed liked this
37
Jun 07, 2009 at 09:56 PM Shoel Umashiv Says:
When a freier person does a chillel shabbos ALL jews pay the price and get punished from shomayim.
Its like somone Drilling a Hole under his seat in the Titanic.. When somone tells him to " Stop or we will all drown"!!
The others all GANG up on him Why do you Holler at him??? Let him do as he sees fit under his private seat !!
Are you crazy!! HE WILL CAUSE US ALL TO DROWN!!
THOSE Michallel shabbos bifarhesiah DRIVERS WILL CAUSE US ALL TERRIBLE Tzuris HAshem yirachem!!!!!
Only if we Holler at them and Vehemently Scold them" ad kiday hakoah " then and only then are we absolved . ........Thats a true KIDDUSH HAshem.
38
Jun 07, 2009 at 09:28 PM Milhouse Says:
“ There is no excuse for any Jew to act in an inappropriate manor as was done this past weekend. This will go down in history as most shameful. EY is a democratic country and legitimate descent is acceptable and allowed, however anyone participating in violence or inciting it belongs in jail. This applies to the Rebbes also. ”
Good grief. I suppose this comment can function as a litmus test. I'm not sure what an "inappropriate manor" is; perhaps one that is not owned by a squire of "legitimate descent". Perhaps a person-of-illegitimate-descent who gets his jollies impersonating others, poorly. In short, this comment is rather like an Onega watch.
39
Jun 07, 2009 at 10:54 PM Anonymous Says:
“ maybe .. just maybe
it is totally unacceptable for charedi boys to riot, put others in danger & cause a global - massive - chilul hashem
”
don't be an apologist for these Israeli thugs who revel with joy when choking powerless yidin. isn't there a chillul hasem there? what are you so afraid? show some compassion for those little boys who had there bones broken by these mamzarim!!! why won't you open your head and see the real chillul hashaem?
40
Jun 07, 2009 at 11:58 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Barkat and and his friends are NOT required under Israeli law to be shomer shabbos or mitzvot. The Mayor does does not even have to be a yid under Isreali law. While EY is a "jewish state", the founders of the state were not frumme and 80 percent of its population is NOT shomer shabbos so I guess you and your hooligan friends in Meah She'arim will have to find another country where your version of yiddeshkeit will also be civil law (hint: its a country from where Osama ben Laden has been hiding and starts with an "A".) ”
What has Israeli law got to do with it? Nobody mentioned Israeli law. He is a Jew, and therefore he must keep shabbos, whether he likes it or not. He has no more right to break shabbos than he does to rob a bank or rape a woman. What Israeli law has to say about it is of no interest to anybody but you.
41
Jun 08, 2009 at 04:19 AM Anonymous Says:
“ What has Israeli law got to do with it? Nobody mentioned Israeli law. He is a Jew, and therefore he must keep shabbos, whether he likes it or not. He has no more right to break shabbos than he does to rob a bank or rape a woman. What Israeli law has to say about it is of no interest to anybody but you. ”
That's right and if part of the problem is that the lot is owned by the government, then transfer it to a non-Jew every Shabbat. It works for hametz every Pesach. Or does it?
42
Jun 08, 2009 at 04:11 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I am sick and tired of the liberal double standard.
Us frum people are constantly being told that we have to accept the non frum, yet I don't see anyone calling on the non-religious people to respect the frum.
We are told to accept openly gay relationships, non frum marriages, non frum geirus, pork, chilul shabbos, destruction of kevarim, and more. At what point do we have a right to draw the line?
Imagine if Israel forced their beliefs on the Muslim community, the world would scream.
The protest started calmly and peacefully with a permit. It was the police who incited the crowd and the crowd just reacted accordingly. As any veteran of Israeli protests will tell you, in many cases the police attack a peaceful protest, causing the protesters to fight back, followed by violence. The police want the violence as an excuse to make the frum look bad.
To the commentor saying that they should take away social programs from anyone protesting, would you feel the same regarding the arabs who denounce Israel?. ”
Draw your lines after Shabbat not during.
43
Jun 08, 2009 at 04:08 AM Anonymous Says:
“ no compromise .. reality .. at most 15% of clal yisrael are shomer shabbos
the remaining 85% must be respected .. and in return they will respect us
lack of respect .. gasus .. behaving like animals ... when did we start allowing such behavior in our children .. why are the roshei yeshiva not speaking out against such behavior ???
”
NO, sorry, we are not to encourage or abet a Jew violating a mitzvah and this is my big problem with our mayor. He is not saying we have goyim living here and visiting. He is asking for "respect" for genuine Jewish violators. You have the "right" to violate mitzvot, We do not have the right to help you.
44
Jun 08, 2009 at 04:05 AM Anonymous Says:
“ the biggist chillil hashem is that most of the commenters are willing to compromise the shaabis
I wonder how many are shommer shabbis ”
And you know this how? Are you a prophet? Until we ban all non-Jews from Jerusalem, we must provide for them as well. What next? the goyim who visit will have to fast on Shabbat because NO restaurant, even one staffed by non-Jews can't be open?
45
Jun 08, 2009 at 02:01 AM varmint Says:
If being frum means deadly assaults on police because someone does something you don't like it's no wonder people think the observant are crazy. Let's see what's happening here...
1) People who don't pay taxes, don't work and don't defend the country demand the right to dictate what the working, taxpaying types who risk their lives to defend Israel will do.
2) When they don't get the right to dictate everything to everybody they assault the police in a manner which could have gotten cops killed
3) The police do not wade in with batons and rubber bullets.
4) The rioters snivel and whine about how they are oppressed because the police showed restraint and because they can't force everyone else to act exactly like them.
5) The whole thing makes apostasy look more attractive. Less observant Jews look at the frum and say "These guys are crazy, spoiled and completely out of touch with reality. Why in the world would I want to be like them?"
46
Jun 07, 2009 at 11:59 PM Milhouse Says:
“ The Rebbes should be putting a ban on such protests, but we all know that will never happen. By the way Mr. Millie, I'm glad to see your coming to your senses. ”
I guess the litmus test is working. One idiot detected.
47
Jun 08, 2009 at 06:37 AM a yid Says:
“ maybe .. just maybe
it is totally unacceptable for charedi boys to riot, put others in danger & cause a global - massive - chilul hashem
”
those protest, mean riot? is civil disobedience OK.? who is putting whom in danger? how about michalel shobbos is not putting people in danger? was the term chilel hashem hijacked lately but the reform jews?
48
Jun 08, 2009 at 06:33 AM a yid Says:
“ porush would have been a disaster for other reasons. lets face it there is non-jews whom visit jerusalem, they need parking why shouldnt it be open on shabbos. i think it was very kind of the mayors office to propose it being free of charge and parking attends arent jews. whats wrong with charaidim? ”
lets face it there are non jews all around isreal they need food, entertainment,transportation etc., why shouldn't those things be open on shobbos? I think its very kind of the Israeli gov, that they are not expelling charedi jews from e.y, after all, the chareidem keep on reminding them that they are jewish, and they keep the old torah of 2000 years ago, which makes jews look so bad and outdated! whats wrong with these zionists?
49
Jun 08, 2009 at 06:22 AM a yid Says:
“ Instead of these Charedim acting like our Hamas cousins
let them try a new approach
If you want to show someone why they should keep Shabbos the fastest way to make sure they will never keep Shabbos or any other mitzvah is to show them how the "holy" charedim act Throwing bottles and rocks at anyone is not a great Kiruv approach
How about inviting them to your Home and show them that Shabbos is not all about rioting on the streets.
I hope the government takes a strong approach and prosecutes anyone caught throwing stones and cuts of any social benefit program they are on Maybe a better idea would be to round up people in Mea Shearim and send them to the Gaza border where they can thow stones all day at our cousins Oh wait They cant b/c they are to busy "learning " so they cant be bitul Torah to go to the army or do anything else productive. ”
wow u really have a real perspective on "productive ." U are not the first or last who believed that frum jews are unproductive, paraho, haman, all complained about the same thing, and so did our dear lovely brothers, the reform movment,the enlightenment, etc. They all wanted to make us "mentchin" "normal" like all goyim r"l
btw. have u ever been to yershulayim ? have u ever seen a shobbos like theirs ? have u ever seen such open doors of hachnusas orchim for sleeping, eating, no matter for whom it is? Even when they have no money for themselves, living in tiny quarters,with a lot of children, they always have space and food for everybody!
It looks like u love the freiaks, so much that u hate anybody frum!
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Jun 08, 2009 at 05:37 AM Anonymous Says:
“ What has Israeli law got to do with it? Nobody mentioned Israeli law. He is a Jew, and therefore he must keep shabbos, whether he likes it or not. He has no more right to break shabbos than he does to rob a bank or rape a woman. What Israeli law has to say about it is of no interest to anybody but you. ”
I don't know how you feel about bank robbery but based on your comment regarding other issues I am surprised to read that you think the right to rape is a limited one at all.
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Jun 08, 2009 at 06:59 AM a yid Says:
“ My yeshiva years in Yerushalayim twenty years ago taught me that the Chassidim in Meah Shaarim live by a set of different rules then any other place in the world. They are kinayim. They feel that if they give an inch to the secular authorities they will end up losing a mile and their tzitzis, tefilin and mezuzas. They really feel that if they give in to anything the secular zionist authority demands they will lose their way of life and their independance. I don't know if this is true, but I understand their rationale. This is the prism that we must look through when we watch these events unfold. ”
if u know the historey of the medinah and other seculer jewish forces, u would know that that is the truth, mostly at least .All yiddeshkeit even in the non kanuisher world or even more so there is not in a small part thnks to the fighting of the kanuim for the torah and thier rights.
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Jun 08, 2009 at 06:53 AM a yid Says:
“ no compromise .. reality .. at most 15% of clal yisrael are shomer shabbos
the remaining 85% must be respected .. and in return they will respect us
lack of respect .. gasus .. behaving like animals ... when did we start allowing such behavior in our children .. why are the roshei yeshiva not speaking out against such behavior ???
”
we should respect them against the torah? besides this is after compromise , this is about changing the status que
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Jun 08, 2009 at 06:45 AM a yid Says:
“ "This will not be allowed to pass – not Karta and not any other place. As long as we're talking about an (authorized) parking lot – it isn't going to happen," Rabbi Yosef Rosenfeld, head of the Committee for Sanctity of Shabbat, told Ynet"
It will happen, and b'yirtzah hashem, this same Rav who said "the city will burn, will be jailed before he starts another riot. I would rather yidden not drive on shabbos and share my sense of what shabbos should mean but I cannot force my belief on others. This Rav is a danger to the entire population of yerushalayim. ”
wow people out here, really hate frum jews! (mee yiten lee talmid chchem v...)
i understand u have a strong desire for chillel shobbos but why do u throw hashem in, to all this ("b'yirtzah hashem" whatever this is supposed to mean ). would u really ratter have them not driving ? is this in the same breath u said "it will happen" just mixed up?
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Jun 08, 2009 at 07:30 AM a yid Says:
“ See Yoma 86 for definition of chillul hashem. When the onlooker says that the behavior of a frum Jew is disgusting, that is a chillul hashem, period. The onlooker makes the decision. ”
the onlooker dosn't make the decision if that would be the case c'v then you couldn't of kept the torah ! its only when u do something against the torah ,or seems to be inappropriate. But not when u are following the torah, michabed the torah etc. no matter how obscure it may seem to others
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Jun 08, 2009 at 07:23 AM a yid Says:
“ There is no excuse for any Jew to act in an inappropriate manor as was done this past weekend. This will go down in history as most shameful. EY is a democratic country and legitimate descent is acceptable and allowed, however anyone participating in violence or inciting it belongs in jail. This applies to the Rebbes also. ”
mill u really suprised me with this one! you are the one, who always tries to defend people doing things against the law, and now u seem to defend isreali law...maybe a shtic tziyones got you? u keep on contradicting yourself, with this parsha, one time u say u cant't go against rabbunim, then u talk against them yourself.
The torah and Judaism are not democratic if u like it or not!
The torah, the rabbunim didn't advocate violence, and non of the pic. posted showed any violence by the frum yidden ! If there was any it was most likely by some children and the alike (lets face it according to the r eports there were like ten thousand protesting, + thousands of police in full riot gear, with powerful water from trucks,
6-8 wounded, all but one were treated on the spot (maybe a bandage or cotton pad). in normal circumstances with such a olim there is more hatzulah calls...
were there protests? yes! civil disobedience? maybe! and thats why they came out for! to let the cry of shobbos be heard, in the ears of those who chose not to listen to it!
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Jun 08, 2009 at 07:20 AM Shomer Shabbos!!! Says:
“ Barkat and and his friends are NOT required under Israeli law to be shomer shabbos or mitzvot. The Mayor does does not even have to be a yid under Isreali law. While EY is a "jewish state", the founders of the state were not frumme and 80 percent of its population is NOT shomer shabbos so I guess you and your hooligan friends in Meah She'arim will have to find another country where your version of yiddeshkeit will also be civil law (hint: its a country from where Osama ben Laden has been hiding and starts with an "A".) ”
if I'm not mistaken Barkat is Jewish, so under Jewish law he needs to hold Shabbos
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Jun 08, 2009 at 07:53 AM a yid Says:
“ Barkat and and his friends are NOT required under Israeli law to be shomer shabbos or mitzvot. The Mayor does does not even have to be a yid under Isreali law. While EY is a "jewish state", the founders of the state were not frumme and 80 percent of its population is NOT shomer shabbos so I guess you and your hooligan friends in Meah She'arim will have to find another country where your version of yiddeshkeit will also be civil law (hint: its a country from where Osama ben Laden has been hiding and starts with an "A".) ”
thats exactly what these jews are protesting about, the non frum founders,state,and according to u the 80% non shomer shobbos jews!
These protesting yidden would ratter live in "a state " as u call it then desecrate the holy shobbos. Their parents, grandparents all the way up, were tortured much worse then now ,for not wanting to give up much less stringent things, then shobbos. they always prevailed, as they will always in the future, until the speedily coming of mosiach bimheira umein! when the jewish state will be a real jewish g-dly state ! At time the torah will be the law of all! isrealy law will be a shanda vcharapa lidruen olum
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Jun 08, 2009 at 07:48 AM Karl Says:
There is no place in the world that is more hostpiable than Mea-Shearim/ Geuleh.
These heilge yidden have more than once given up there only peice of chicken for some spoiled American seminary girl on some sort of mission to see how people who live under the poverty level live with dignity.
They know exactky when to call a spade a spade.
Remember Yakov Avinu said Achiv Umi Beramous.
Rav Sonnenfeld was not fooled by the empty promises of HU.
T
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Jun 08, 2009 at 12:08 PM moish Says:
“ Good grief. I suppose this comment can function as a litmus test. I'm not sure what an "inappropriate manor" is; perhaps one that is not owned by a squire of "legitimate descent". Perhaps a person-of-illegitimate-descent who gets his jollies impersonating others, poorly. In short, this comment is rather like an Onega watch. ”
i knew it wasn't you, it was probably the same guy that made a similar comment about this issue in an earlier post in my name.
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Jun 08, 2009 at 01:14 PM moish Says:
“ "This will not be allowed to pass – not Karta and not any other place. As long as we're talking about an (authorized) parking lot – it isn't going to happen," Rabbi Yosef Rosenfeld, head of the Committee for Sanctity of Shabbat, told Ynet"
It will happen, and b'yirtzah hashem, this same Rav who said "the city will burn, will be jailed before he starts another riot. I would rather yidden not drive on shabbos and share my sense of what shabbos should mean but I cannot force my belief on others. This Rav is a danger to the entire population of yerushalayim. ”
except the torah's hashkafa is not so, shoftim veshotrim titen lecho etc. What would you say if you saw sanhedrin putting someone to death for being mechalel shabbos? [i'm not saying that in metzius we have the ability to do it - we are in golus, but that your hashkafa is corrupt].
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Jun 08, 2009 at 05:10 PM Milhouse Says:
“ mill u really suprised me with this one! you are the one, who always tries to defend people doing things against the law, and now u seem to defend isreali law...maybe a shtic tziyones got you? u keep on contradicting yourself, with this parsha, one time u say u cant't go against rabbunim, then u talk against them yourself.
The torah and Judaism are not democratic if u like it or not!
The torah, the rabbunim didn't advocate violence, and non of the pic. posted showed any violence by the frum yidden ! If there was any it was most likely by some children and the alike (lets face it according to the r eports there were like ten thousand protesting, + thousands of police in full riot gear, with powerful water from trucks,
6-8 wounded, all but one were treated on the spot (maybe a bandage or cotton pad). in normal circumstances with such a olim there is more hatzulah calls...
were there protests? yes! civil disobedience? maybe! and thats why they came out for! to let the cry of shobbos be heard, in the ears of those who chose not to listen to it! ”
Sigh. And the litmus test caught another one! The people-of-illegitimate-descent are taking over the manor!
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Jun 08, 2009 at 05:07 PM Milhouse Says:
“ wow people out here, really hate frum jews! (mee yiten lee talmid chchem v...)
i understand u have a strong desire for chillel shobbos but why do u throw hashem in, to all this ("b'yirtzah hashem" whatever this is supposed to mean ). would u really ratter have them not driving ? is this in the same breath u said "it will happen" just mixed up? ”
Nonsense pseudo-hebrew expressions like "b'yirtzah hashem", "chilli hshem", "gadolim", "poseks" (meaning psokim), etc. are absolutely typical of these non-orthodox commenters.
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Jun 08, 2009 at 07:42 PM gavi Says:
my fellow yidden, every time we see a jew drive a car on shabbos, the pain we feel should be beyond belief, and if this protest would actually cut down the number of people who drive on shabbos than we would probabely be mechuyav to go through with it, but to the average one of our non-orthodox brothers and sisters, seeing jews rioting makes torah judaism seem disgusting to them, not only does this not have the desired effect frequently but it can cause a chillul hashem, so im not going to tell you yidden not to riot but i am going to ask you to ask yourselves before you do, why am i doing this, what will this accomplish, will this cause the torah to be disgraced, and will this actually decrease chillul shabbos, may hashem guide us down the right path
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Jun 09, 2009 at 12:58 AM a yid Says:
“ Good grief. I suppose this comment can function as a litmus test. I'm not sure what an "inappropriate manor" is; perhaps one that is not owned by a squire of "legitimate descent". Perhaps a person-of-illegitimate-descent who gets his jollies impersonating others, poorly. In short, this comment is rather like an Onega watch. ”
sorry mil! I guess u'r too good for themn so they are trying to copy u.