New York - Hudson Jet Crash: The Miracle That Almost Wasn't |
|

Who opened the door is one of the questions the National Transportation Safety Board hopes to answer during three days of hearings on the accident beginning Tuesday. Other issues include crew training for forced water landings and dual engine failures, whether aircraft standards for ditching are adequate, bird detection and mitigation efforts at airports, and whether engine standards need to be toughened to withstand collisions with large birds.
Had the door been opened wider, the Airbus A320 would likely have flooded and sank immediately, said one experienced crash investigator. Even the slight gap in the door caused passengers in the rear to struggle through rising water to get to safety.
"It probably would have gone down tail-first very quickly, probably in 30 seconds to a minute, which means some of the people probably wouldn't have gotten out," said William Waldock, who teaches air crash investigation at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Prescott, Ariz.
Air in partially empty fuel tanks also helped their plane stay afloat.
Flight 1549 had just taken off from LaGuardia Airport in New York on Jan. 15 and climbed to about 3,000 feet when the plane hit a flock of Canada geese and lost thrust in both engines. Capt. Chesley Sullenberger decided to ditch into the Hudson rather than risk crashing in the densely populated area of New York and New Jersey. Everyone aboard survived.
"I would have to say if things were just a little different that day we could have had a different outcome for sure," said board member Robert Sumwalt, who will chair the hearing. "We want to understand as much about this accident as we possibly can." One of the first issues on the board's agenda is whether a passenger or a flight attendant opened the rear door after the plane landed, and how much training cabin crews receive on how to evacuate passengers in a forced water landing.
The first two witnesses are Sullenberger and Billy Campbell, one of several passengers who in interviews have contradicted flight attendant Doreen Welsh's claim that a panicked passenger opened the door, NTSB officials said. Campbell was seated in the second-to-last row.
Before Flight 1549, crew training for a forced water landing had not received much attention from airlines because there have been so few water crashes where there was a reasonable expectation most passengers might survive, Waldock said.
"I think it was probably right down at the bottom of everybody's priority list of issues," Waldock said. "It's an issue they're looking at a lot more closely now." Many airlines still don't warn against using the rear doors for passenger evacuation in event of water landing, he said.
Another concern is whether the FAA and airlines need to revise emergency procedures for pilots in the event both engines fail.
Those procedures usually involve a sequence of many steps called a checklist. There are different checklists depending upon the problem, but most are based on the expectation that the problem will occur while the plane is flying at a high altitude -- airliners typically cruise above 20,000 feet, giving pilots time to identify and correct the problem.
Flight 1549's first officer, Jeffrey Skiles, told a congressional panel in February that he only had time to make it part of the way through a checklist for restarting the engines when Sullenberger sent the plane into the river.
Sumwalt suggested it would be better for airlines to train pilots to remember one procedure for a low-altitude dual engine failure, rather than go through a long checklist of items while altitude rapidly diminishes.
"If there's not a Hudson River out there, they're going to crash," Sumwalt said.
More of today's headlines
“Newark, NJ - The Justice Department filed a lawsuit today accusing Essex County officials of illegally firing a Muslim corrections officer for refusing to remove her...”
Newark, NJ - Woman Corrections Officer Fired for Wearing Muslim Head Scarf
Jerusalem - Israel's New Battlefield Tool, The Robot Snake



Total18
Read Comments (18) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 08, 2009 at 07:04 PM Anonymous Says:
A miracle is just that, a miracle. Clearly these people were zoche to remain with us.
2
Jun 08, 2009 at 08:00 PM ZR Says:
“ A miracle is just that, a miracle. Clearly these people were zoche to remain with us. ”
Yes, and therfore, lets not train pilots how to handle emergency situations. Lets not train trivers how to drive safley. Lets not mandate seatbelts. After all its up to Hashem if we survive the day or not.
Your hashkafa is confused.
3
Jun 08, 2009 at 08:17 PM YitzchokM Says:
“ Yes, and therfore, lets not train pilots how to handle emergency situations. Lets not train trivers how to drive safley. Lets not mandate seatbelts. After all its up to Hashem if we survive the day or not.
Your hashkafa is confused. ”
And your point is, then, that it's not a miracle?
I believe it is your thinking that's messed-up!
4
Jun 08, 2009 at 08:11 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Yes, and therfore, lets not train pilots how to handle emergency situations. Lets not train trivers how to drive safley. Lets not mandate seatbelts. After all its up to Hashem if we survive the day or not.
Your hashkafa is confused. ”
Why is it confused? The RS"O works through his creations.
5
Jun 08, 2009 at 09:11 PM nachi Says:
what hes trying say is that we have to do our part and hashem will help out with the rest. we shouldnt sit back and watch stuff happen. we should take action, and action is what we need
6
Jun 08, 2009 at 08:53 PM ShatzMatz Says:
If we are going to waste resources to train people on a once in a century scenario you will lose sight of the true priorities. Realize that the chance of another such incident ever happening is virtually nil. Lets just forget about it and concentrate on building safer aircraft.
7
Jun 08, 2009 at 10:43 PM Anonymous Says:
They are suposed to come up with ideas of spair thechnolgy like an extra engine with a cover that would release th ecover when needed and start working when needed.The same with any problems should be a spare when needed, i believe it can be done with electrical stuff also.
8
Jun 09, 2009 at 03:54 AM Anonymous Says:
True hashem runs the world. He is a Hero though
9
Jun 09, 2009 at 02:03 AM ZR Says:
“ If we are going to waste resources to train people on a once in a century scenario you will lose sight of the true priorities. Realize that the chance of another such incident ever happening is virtually nil. Lets just forget about it and concentrate on building safer aircraft. ”
1. One of the first emergencies a pilot will simulate is engine failure. What "wasted resources" are are you talking about?
2. Engine failure is quite common. Twin engine failure is less common, but not unheard of. That's why pilots spend hundreds of hours training for these types of emergencies. Your assertion that the "chance of another such incident ever happening is virtually nil" is baseless.
3. And since when is air safety compromised for financial reasons? If an airline can't afford every one of the safety regulations, then it has no right to be in the business of transporting passengers. Airlines are not charities with limited resources. They are for-profit businesses. Therefore safety is part of the cost of running the business.
10
Jun 09, 2009 at 12:12 AM PMO Says:
“ And your point is, then, that it's not a miracle?
I believe it is your thinking that's messed-up! ”
So are you saying that if I jump out of a plane but don't deploy my parachute H" will save me if it is "not my time"? Don't be a fool.
11
Jun 09, 2009 at 12:37 AM my thought Says:
Why don't they just put a strong net on the front of the motor so no birds can fly in and done with this problem?
12
Jun 09, 2009 at 06:05 AM ZR Says:
“ Why don't they just put a strong net on the front of the motor so no birds can fly in and done with this problem?
”
If a bird hitting the engine at 250 mph can break the strong engine blades, then what type of “net” is strong enough to withstand a bird strike but will not interfere with the air intake?
13
Jun 08, 2009 at 11:29 PM Anonymous Says:
“ They are suposed to come up with ideas of spair thechnolgy like an extra engine with a cover that would release th ecover when needed and start working when needed.The same with any problems should be a spare when needed, i believe it can be done with electrical stuff also. ”
Well, according to ShatzMatz's reasoning, we shouldn't waste the money on safety features. Better keep airline ticket prices $50 cheaper, and let one plane-load of passengers sink once a century! (After all, how do you think they're going to pay for all these extra 'spare-parts' that the plane is carrying?)
14
Jun 09, 2009 at 07:30 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Why don't they just put a strong net on the front of the motor so no birds can fly in and done with this problem?
”
There was a discussion of this point just after the crash. The main reason is that having something in front of the air intake that would be strong enough to prevent birds getting sucked into the engine would also impair airflow into the engine, thereby reducing the engine's power. They could compensate by using a significantly larger and more powerful engine, but that would cause other issues - weight, fuel, etc. - that make it difficult to do in practice.
15
Jun 09, 2009 at 08:21 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Why don't they just put a strong net on the front of the motor so no birds can fly in and done with this problem?
”
i think engines do have something like a defense against birds, but i heard that these werent typical (small) birds. they were huge geese. thats what i heard
16
Jun 09, 2009 at 12:08 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ There was a discussion of this point just after the crash. The main reason is that having something in front of the air intake that would be strong enough to prevent birds getting sucked into the engine would also impair airflow into the engine, thereby reducing the engine's power. They could compensate by using a significantly larger and more powerful engine, but that would cause other issues - weight, fuel, etc. - that make it difficult to do in practice.
”
The problem with putting anything in the inlet flow path is that in introduces more hardware that can be sucked into the engine. It would be more likely to ingest a loose nut or bolt from the FOD screen than it would be to ingest a bird. Military engines are designed to withstand an eight pound bird strike as opposed to civilian engines which are tested with four pound birds (actually whole chickens, glatt of course). As to pilot training, airline pilots generally make very handsome salaries. Now, any airline pilot will tell you that flying a modern airliner is mostly monitoring the computer from takeoff to landing, and pilots can fly many years without a significant emergency, so what are the six figure salaries for? Ask Captain Sullenberger. He earned his year's (maybe his entire career's)salary in six minutes. P.S. regarding my comments on the benefits of a FOD (stands for Foreign Object Damage)screen on engine inlets, I've worked as an engineer in the industry for 38 years.
17
Jun 10, 2009 at 05:54 AM FAA Technician Says:
“ If we are going to waste resources to train people on a once in a century scenario you will lose sight of the true priorities. Realize that the chance of another such incident ever happening is virtually nil. Lets just forget about it and concentrate on building safer aircraft. ”
There were about 7500 bird strikes in 2007. Some of them quite serious. If not for the training, calm, and skill of the pilots involved many more injuries and fatalities would have occurred.
FAA and US Dept od Wild life report here:
http://wildlife.pr.erau.edu/BASH90-07.pdf
Stats begin on page 14 and it's some really great pictures.
18
Jun 10, 2009 at 05:44 AM FAA Technician Says:
“ They are suposed to come up with ideas of spair thechnolgy like an extra engine with a cover that would release th ecover when needed and start working when needed.The same with any problems should be a spare when needed, i believe it can be done with electrical stuff also. ”
An Airplane is built with more redundancy then you can dream of. The keel is steel in case the plane needs to land on the belly in case of landing gear failure. The aircraft is designed to float with flotation collors that seal the around the pipes going through the deck. There is an "A", a "B", and a reserve hydraulic system. Each engine has a generator and there is an APU in addition to that. in case of complete engine, battery, and electrical system failure, there is a RAT (Rapid Air Turbine) wind drive generator that provides electrity for basic control and communication functions. carrying a "spare" engine is not going to happen. The time it takes to go through the checklist isn't enough to "uncover" and start the engine.