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New York City - 30,000 Signed Letters To Stop Proposed Child Care Voucher Cuts Delivered To Mayor Bloomberg |
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New York City - Letters from 30,000 Orthodox Jewish parents were delivered by Agudath Israel community activists to New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg this afternoon.
The missives make the case for preserving a city program than benefits needy parents, the large majority of them in the city’s Orthodox community, to the tune of approximately $15 million a year.
The program provides child care vouchers to parents of school-age children if certain criteria are met. Under “Priority 7” of the program, vouchers are provided to families where one parent is working full time and the other faces a substantial degree of social difficulty without child care assistance.
With its often large families and particular financial challenges, the city’s Orthodox community has been the main beneficiary of the Priority 7 category. Some 2000 child care vouchers, worth approximately $15 million dollars to their recipients, have been distributed yearly to parents in heavily Orthodox parts of New York. Mr. Bloomberg’s proposed budget would eliminate Priority 7, prompting the outpouring of concern.
Joining the Agudath Israel activists and leaders on the steps of City Hall were City Councilmembers Bill de Blasio, Simcha Felder, Lewis A. Fidler, Melinda R. Katz, Michael C. Nelson, David I. Weprin and David Yassky.
“This is not a protest,” said Agudath Israel of America vice president for community affairs Rabbi Shmuel Lefkowitz. “It is a simple – and unprecedented – demonstration of how much this program means to our community, and a plea to the Mayor that he reconsider.”
Added Rabbi David Zwiebel, the organization’s executive vice president: “We hope that if we bring City Hall’s attention to the fact that the elimination of Priority 7 will have a disproportionate effect on a particular segment of the city’s population – us – they will reconsider and find a way to let whatever cuts are absolutely necessary be distributed fairly among all priority groups.”
In 2002, Priority 7 was also endangered, and Mayor Bloomberg, noting the disproportionate effect removing the priority would have, rescinded the proposed elimination.
At that time he said “I’ve said repeatedly that New Yorkers need to share the pain of budget cuts, but that the pain shouldn’t fall on anyone or any group unfairly.”
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Read Comments (39) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 10, 2009 at 04:11 PM Anonymous Says:
Why aren't they collecting letters against To'avah?????? Oh I forgot there's no $$ involved
2
Jun 10, 2009 at 03:54 PM Anonymous Says:
the rich mayor won't give a damn on 60,000 letters. we need to get a mayor who understand our needs
3
Jun 10, 2009 at 04:29 PM Anonymous Says:
The letter was sent home and I, as a parent of a school age child, was told to sign it. It makes the point that the Orthodox community would be disproportionately burdened. That is only because we, as a community, are sophisticated enough to avail ourselves of every available entitlement...even ones that no one knows about (how many of you have heard of this before it was eliminated?). I question whether it is in fact in the interest of the frum community to argue this. It was never intended to disproportionally benefit the Orthodox community -- highlighting that will give legislators another reason to eliminate it. Sometimes I wonder what the Agudah is thinking....I don't question their halacha, but I time and time again think that they are just tone-deaf when it comes to politics.
4
Jun 10, 2009 at 04:33 PM Anonymous Says:
This is not the best way to handle this. Why should we focus on the fact that frumme yiddin with big families demand their entitlement to these welfare payments. It only focuses attention on this dependency issue and raises the obvious question as to why these ehrleche yiddin are having children they cannot afford to take care.of.
5
Jun 10, 2009 at 04:29 PM dave Says:
This is astounding. I have a one year old baby and I pay roughly $4,000 a year for full time daycare. Now, $15 million divided by 2000 kids is $7500 per kid. Almost double what I pay. I wonder where all that extra is going.
6
Jun 10, 2009 at 04:53 PM Anonymous Says:
#5
really you pay $4000 a year?
Your paying less than minimum wage and im sure its off the books. Who are you screwing?
7
Jun 10, 2009 at 04:50 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why aren't they collecting letters against To'avah?????? Oh I forgot there's no $$ involved ”
Please leave Tova alone. She has harmed nobody and is, actually, pretty cute.
8
Jun 10, 2009 at 04:50 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The letter was sent home and I, as a parent of a school age child, was told to sign it. It makes the point that the Orthodox community would be disproportionately burdened. That is only because we, as a community, are sophisticated enough to avail ourselves of every available entitlement...even ones that no one knows about (how many of you have heard of this before it was eliminated?). I question whether it is in fact in the interest of the frum community to argue this. It was never intended to disproportionally benefit the Orthodox community -- highlighting that will give legislators another reason to eliminate it. Sometimes I wonder what the Agudah is thinking....I don't question their halacha, but I time and time again think that they are just tone-deaf when it comes to politics. ”
If you're really sending your childern in an orthdox school you would sign this. After all if not this entitlement your tution would go up much more, since you would have to pick up the cost of the parents not having the money to pay.
After all we are entitled to 15 million dollars when we are saving billions of dollars by not sending our childern to public schools. If NYC is in a deficit can you imagine what the number would be if they we would have all our childern in public schools.
Also does any admistraitor, pricipal, or teacher in an Orthodox school get all perks and benefits that they get in public school?
Do you know anyone who bacame rich by being a teacher in a frum school?
I want my childerns teachers and pricipals to get paid on time and fairly, no matter where the money is coming from so the teacher should be able to focus during the day in school and not being worried that he or she didn't get paid for weeks or months.
9
Jun 10, 2009 at 04:44 PM Achdus wins. Says:
#1 your a self hater and you should be ashamed.If it wouldnt be Toaiva marriage it would be something else. A hater is a hater. Get off your chair and do something anything for somebody else if only to stop your miserable existance.
10
Jun 10, 2009 at 04:48 PM Anonymous Says:
Um, Dave ... let's say childcare for 35 hours/ week and 45 weeks a year ... that 1575 childcare hours at, say a low $5/hr, and you are already at $7875. I don't think your $4000 is covering full-time or you are paying an extremely low amount.
11
Jun 10, 2009 at 05:02 PM Anonymous Says:
#3 this was an organized effort with the particapation of many top level organizations. I heard both Satmers and Bobov were involved as well as well as dozens of other Yeshivos Chasidish and Litvesh with numerous affiliations.It also had the participationan and encouragement of very knowlegable and powerful elected officials who directed the effort.So again im not sure why your questionsing the beutiful display of effective Achdus and advocasy led by the Agudah. Can we all for once just support our community.It gets to be that we are our own worst enemy and no longer need the hatred of the Goyim to hurt us.It seems on this site, that we have enough hate and jealosy to go around.We need to rally for our Mosdos not rip every effort.
12
Jun 10, 2009 at 05:05 PM Anonymous Says:
Has anyone thought about the chillul Hashem that could come out of this that we send to private schools (even though this is an after school program only and "technically" no tuition credits are allowed to be given for people that get this vouchers - but we all know the truth) and get paid by the City, and this will start a whole tumult that Jews take programs etc, and this program (priority 7) is really for families that they cannot manage their children only, and how is it possible that one community has so many families that cant manage.
The best thing is when (orthordox) Jews dont take from the American people and keep as far away as possible from being called from the "takers" in society instead of the "givers", and if we really have to take governement program's - for heaven's sake - lets keep it quiet and not make a public display of it.
I wonder if the Aguda asked their gedoilim if they should make such a tumult about this issue or not.
I can understand the schools, since this program is a major source of their tuition income they are geting parents to write letters to the politicians, but has anyone thought into the ramifications of their actions? Have the gedoilim and roshei yeshiva been consulted? Do we really have to let all the non-jews of NY, know that we utilise governemnt programs to this extent?
13
Jun 10, 2009 at 05:57 PM Anonymous Says:
“ #3 this was an organized effort with the particapation of many top level organizations. I heard both Satmers and Bobov were involved as well as well as dozens of other Yeshivos Chasidish and Litvesh with numerous affiliations.It also had the participationan and encouragement of very knowlegable and powerful elected officials who directed the effort.So again im not sure why your questionsing the beutiful display of effective Achdus and advocasy led by the Agudah. Can we all for once just support our community.It gets to be that we are our own worst enemy and no longer need the hatred of the Goyim to hurt us.It seems on this site, that we have enough hate and jealosy to go around.We need to rally for our Mosdos not rip every effort. ”
It was a beautiful display of Achdus, yes... That said, I read the letter -- if the goal was to save Priority Seven, the expedient political thing to do would be to make sure that at least half those letters came from outside frum organizations. This campaign and the letter didn't try to save the program on its merits...it was just a way to show elected officials the power of our voting bloc. My goal is not to be divisive in the slightest, nor am I arguing the merits of what we, as private school parents, deserve -- I am just questioning whether it truly is in the heimishe interest to underline the fact that we've jerry-rigged the Priority Seven system in a way that we have historically got all the benefit from this entitlement....when the intent of that legislation.
14
Jun 10, 2009 at 05:56 PM dave Says:
“ Um, Dave ... let's say childcare for 35 hours/ week and 45 weeks a year ... that 1575 childcare hours at, say a low $5/hr, and you are already at $7875. I don't think your $4000 is covering full-time or you are paying an extremely low amount. ”
I'm sorry, your right. I live in Lakewood where full time day care is 9:15 until 3:15. And I pay $4.50 an hour. So your right that my calculation might be off for boro park.
But nevertheless, people in boro park have school 9 months a year, and $7,500 seems excessive for an after school program (which really, more than covers full boro park chasidish yeshiva tuition). So in any case the numbers don't really add up.
And to anonymous #6, there is no reason for you to get so heated up, that you have to resort to using vulgar language. It really says something about you. And if I had to guess, it sounds like you are someone taking advantage of this program, one way or another. Oh, and I'm not messing anyone over. Everything I earn is on the books, and I do not take a penny from any government programs. On the contrary, I actually happily pay my fair share of taxes, and am not a burden on society. And the day care my child attends, has 5 children enrolled. That amounts to $22.50 an hour, which is a fair amount to get paid for watching children. And I provide diapers wipes and food. So I don't think I am taking advantage of anyone. I think an apology is forthcoming.
15
Jun 10, 2009 at 05:56 PM Avrohom Abba Says:
I wish al the Catholic schools would also collect signatures because then Mr. Mayor would be a little more moved by so many signatures. Elections are coming up and Mr. Bloomberg would be wise to address the people's concerns. Also, he cancelled a 57 million product for Williamsburg. Also, he has hired even more ticket givers.
Last election he was wiser.
16
Jun 10, 2009 at 05:49 PM Anonymous Says:
“ If you're really sending your childern in an orthdox school you would sign this. After all if not this entitlement your tution would go up much more, since you would have to pick up the cost of the parents not having the money to pay.
After all we are entitled to 15 million dollars when we are saving billions of dollars by not sending our childern to public schools. If NYC is in a deficit can you imagine what the number would be if they we would have all our childern in public schools.
Also does any admistraitor, pricipal, or teacher in an Orthodox school get all perks and benefits that they get in public school?
Do you know anyone who bacame rich by being a teacher in a frum school?
I want my childerns teachers and pricipals to get paid on time and fairly, no matter where the money is coming from so the teacher should be able to focus during the day in school and not being worried that he or she didn't get paid for weeks or months. ”
I agree with your sentiment...and I, a Bais Yakov graduate myself, send three daughters to Bais Yakov (do you think I am not frum just bc I write articulately??? that's a pretty sad reflection on frum education). Absolutely, the rebbeim deserve at least as much as the public schools, and yes, the city saves billions because we educate our children privately...I was merely pointing out that highlighting the fact that Priority Seven funnels monies to yeshivos, where that was not the intent of that particular entitlement, isn't a good political idea. Entitlements are supposed to benefit all citizens equally...the fact that this one doesn't bc the yeshivos know how to game the system, isn't something that ought to be highlighted by sending 30K letters to the mayor's office....
17
Jun 10, 2009 at 05:43 PM stop apologizing Says:
“ Has anyone thought about the chillul Hashem that could come out of this that we send to private schools (even though this is an after school program only and "technically" no tuition credits are allowed to be given for people that get this vouchers - but we all know the truth) and get paid by the City, and this will start a whole tumult that Jews take programs etc, and this program (priority 7) is really for families that they cannot manage their children only, and how is it possible that one community has so many families that cant manage.
The best thing is when (orthordox) Jews dont take from the American people and keep as far away as possible from being called from the "takers" in society instead of the "givers", and if we really have to take governement program's - for heaven's sake - lets keep it quiet and not make a public display of it.
I wonder if the Aguda asked their gedoilim if they should make such a tumult about this issue or not.
I can understand the schools, since this program is a major source of their tuition income they are geting parents to write letters to the politicians, but has anyone thought into the ramifications of their actions? Have the gedoilim and roshei yeshiva been consulted? Do we really have to let all the non-jews of NY, know that we utilise governemnt programs to this extent? ”
#12
Wow what an inferiority complex you have. Our community saved the government hundreds of millions of dollars. No that was not a typo hundreds of millions!!! this year. We pay full taxes for a public school eductaion we do and will never not utilize. In frum neighborhoods, public school kids are bussed in to the public schools because our kids of course go to private schools. This program (priority 7)is opened to the general public. Many in our community qualify. Why oh why must we apologize for that. I am paying thousands in taxes probably double my gentile neighbor. My kids get next to nothing from the state in education assistance. , please think about the inequity of it.
Our community must effectivly sdvocate for our share of the pie otherwise our Yeshivos already in financial crisis will collapse.
Stop apologizing. This is how its done!
18
Jun 10, 2009 at 05:37 PM yidel Says:
“ #1 your a self hater and you should be ashamed.If it wouldnt be Toaiva marriage it would be something else. A hater is a hater. Get off your chair and do something anything for somebody else if only to stop your miserable existance. ”
sorry but i dont see why he's a hater... hes entitled to his opinion and if it means so much to him let him start drafting his own petition...
19
Jun 10, 2009 at 05:14 PM Anonymous Says:
how does one receive/qualify for such aid?
20
Jun 10, 2009 at 06:17 PM Dag Says:
To protect money, we can get 30,000 sigs in less than 2 weeks! To protect our children from molesters (JBAC's background checks, not Markey) we get no support. Amazing
21
Jun 10, 2009 at 06:14 PM Avi Says:
“ The letter was sent home and I, as a parent of a school age child, was told to sign it. It makes the point that the Orthodox community would be disproportionately burdened. That is only because we, as a community, are sophisticated enough to avail ourselves of every available entitlement...even ones that no one knows about (how many of you have heard of this before it was eliminated?). I question whether it is in fact in the interest of the frum community to argue this. It was never intended to disproportionally benefit the Orthodox community -- highlighting that will give legislators another reason to eliminate it. Sometimes I wonder what the Agudah is thinking....I don't question their halacha, but I time and time again think that they are just tone-deaf when it comes to politics. ”
I as a parent have also received this letter to sign. I am not on any of the social programs offered by the State(s8-food stamps ect.). However I do realize that my own children's education will increase if not for vouchers. The burden of the poor will fall on me and others who are just middle class working and struggling people. We are paying taxes just like the people who send to public school and we deserve the same break as those students. And you know quite well we don't have a choice in where we want to send our kids.
22
Jun 10, 2009 at 06:46 PM Charles Hall Says:
In order for this cut to have any chance of being reversed, the mayor is going to have to get his sales tax increase -- which is in serious jeopardy thanks to the Republican takeover of the State Senate that many here at VIN are cheering on. This makes us look like hypocrites.
23
Jun 10, 2009 at 06:45 PM give it a rest Says:
Dag no your missing the point, this is about saving families who are suffering fianancial troubles and are counting on this voucher program to actually protect their kids. Are you so stuck on the Markey issue that you dont see the real story.Kids are the real story here not the money.
ok ok we understand markey is important but is that it? If every issue from now on will be judged by Markey your going tobe very cynical poster?
Give it a rest-please.
24
Jun 10, 2009 at 06:44 PM Anonymous Says:
Can someone explain why funding for an after-school program could affect tuition. As I understand it , this program is not for the costs of operating the regular school program or what goes on during the school day.
25
Jun 10, 2009 at 06:38 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I as a parent have also received this letter to sign. I am not on any of the social programs offered by the State(s8-food stamps ect.). However I do realize that my own children's education will increase if not for vouchers. The burden of the poor will fall on me and others who are just middle class working and struggling people. We are paying taxes just like the people who send to public school and we deserve the same break as those students. And you know quite well we don't have a choice in where we want to send our kids. ”
I pay 40K in tuitions, have never taken any monies from the government, no Pell Grants, Section Eight, or Child Health Plus -- even when my husband learned in kollel for years and years. My neighbors driving Lexuses get breaks...but we try to do the right thing...even if I feel like the only middle class person who pays full tuition. I know my full tuition payments fund many other children (you too can find out how much by asking your school principal how much tuition you can consider as ma'aser), and I am a big advocate for anything that will funnel more funds to yeshivos. But it's a dirty little secret that the mosdos have benefitted from this program disproportionally -- it's not yashrusdik to say that all these stay at home heimishe mothers emotionally "can't cope" and therefore deserve funding...it's just not true as a matter of fact, except in exceptional circumstances. As for vouchers, they are of questionable constitutionality to begin with (so say ppl. much smarter than me...), and (and I only say this half-tongue in cheek....) do you really want all of the disenfranchised inner city delinquents to suddenly have the funds to go to Catholic school and learn that we killed their "savior"?????????????? Then there's the argument that I can't help but believe, that with vouchers, tuition will just double -- it will rise to the level where ppl. can no longer pay more.
I would love for there to be a way to get the yeshivos the funds they deserve -- but only if it's done in an ehricher way that won't engender a backlash from the community at large.
26
Jun 10, 2009 at 06:27 PM Dag Says:
“ If you're really sending your childern in an orthdox school you would sign this. After all if not this entitlement your tution would go up much more, since you would have to pick up the cost of the parents not having the money to pay.
After all we are entitled to 15 million dollars when we are saving billions of dollars by not sending our childern to public schools. If NYC is in a deficit can you imagine what the number would be if they we would have all our childern in public schools.
Also does any admistraitor, pricipal, or teacher in an Orthodox school get all perks and benefits that they get in public school?
Do you know anyone who bacame rich by being a teacher in a frum school?
I want my childerns teachers and pricipals to get paid on time and fairly, no matter where the money is coming from so the teacher should be able to focus during the day in school and not being worried that he or she didn't get paid for weeks or months. ”
Hashem Yerachaim. We are not entitled to Priority 7 money, irrespective of where we send our children to school.
The administrator, principal, etc at the Public School likely spent YEARS in graduate school to prepare for his/her position. What preparation do Yeshiva administrators have?
27
Jun 10, 2009 at 06:57 PM good american Says:
“ The letter was sent home and I, as a parent of a school age child, was told to sign it. It makes the point that the Orthodox community would be disproportionately burdened. That is only because we, as a community, are sophisticated enough to avail ourselves of every available entitlement...even ones that no one knows about (how many of you have heard of this before it was eliminated?). I question whether it is in fact in the interest of the frum community to argue this. It was never intended to disproportionally benefit the Orthodox community -- highlighting that will give legislators another reason to eliminate it. Sometimes I wonder what the Agudah is thinking....I don't question their halacha, but I time and time again think that they are just tone-deaf when it comes to politics. ”
the reason why this affects our community so much over other communities is because a large part of nyc families are one-parent family. this is about families who have two parents, one who works and the other who is sort-of uncapable. in communities where there are one-parent homes there are other propositions that help those children and those cost the city a whole lot more than 15 million dollars. however, cutting those will get Al sharpton and jessie jackson and a ;million men marching the streets. just not worth it!! here all the mayor gets is, 30,000 signatures of peaceful citizens!!!
28
Jun 10, 2009 at 06:49 PM Charles Hall Says:
“ I as a parent have also received this letter to sign. I am not on any of the social programs offered by the State(s8-food stamps ect.). However I do realize that my own children's education will increase if not for vouchers. The burden of the poor will fall on me and others who are just middle class working and struggling people. We are paying taxes just like the people who send to public school and we deserve the same break as those students. And you know quite well we don't have a choice in where we want to send our kids. ”
There just isn't much popular support for vouchers. Everywhere they have come before voters in a referendum, they have lost by huge margins. In New York they would require a change to the state constitution. And they would also require tax increases. The entrenched opposition to any public support for religion goes back centuries, at least as far as Madison and Jefferson, and is considered by many to be part of American culture: I got incredible grief when I happened to suggest on a liberal site that vouchers weren't inherently a bad idea and that other democracies provided government support to religious schools.
29
Jun 10, 2009 at 07:02 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Hashem Yerachaim. We are not entitled to Priority 7 money, irrespective of where we send our children to school.
The administrator, principal, etc at the Public School likely spent YEARS in graduate school to prepare for his/her position. What preparation do Yeshiva administrators have?
”
Hashem Yerachaim-
Dag what in heavens name are talking about?
Your completly uninformed.
30
Jun 10, 2009 at 07:55 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I pay 40K in tuitions, have never taken any monies from the government, no Pell Grants, Section Eight, or Child Health Plus -- even when my husband learned in kollel for years and years. My neighbors driving Lexuses get breaks...but we try to do the right thing...even if I feel like the only middle class person who pays full tuition. I know my full tuition payments fund many other children (you too can find out how much by asking your school principal how much tuition you can consider as ma'aser), and I am a big advocate for anything that will funnel more funds to yeshivos. But it's a dirty little secret that the mosdos have benefitted from this program disproportionally -- it's not yashrusdik to say that all these stay at home heimishe mothers emotionally "can't cope" and therefore deserve funding...it's just not true as a matter of fact, except in exceptional circumstances. As for vouchers, they are of questionable constitutionality to begin with (so say ppl. much smarter than me...), and (and I only say this half-tongue in cheek....) do you really want all of the disenfranchised inner city delinquents to suddenly have the funds to go to Catholic school and learn that we killed their "savior"?????????????? Then there's the argument that I can't help but believe, that with vouchers, tuition will just double -- it will rise to the level where ppl. can no longer pay more.
I would love for there to be a way to get the yeshivos the funds they deserve -- but only if it's done in an ehricher way that won't engender a backlash from the community at large. ”
Thank you No. 25. I've always said be careful what you wish for. I think vouchers would be a disaster for jews. I know I don't want my tax mony going to catholic schools (although many of them now a days are quite moderate and don't preach hate against jews and privde a good secular education) or, worse, to radical madrassas. Religious institutions in this country are already quite advantaged by getting huge tax breaks which, in effect, raises everyone else's taxes. If we make a choice to send our kids to jewish school, let's work on making those schools the best they can be and make sure they operate in the most cost-effective manner instead of whining about vouchers will never happen in NYS.
31
Jun 10, 2009 at 09:08 PM Anonymous Says:
“ #12
Wow what an inferiority complex you have. Our community saved the government hundreds of millions of dollars. No that was not a typo hundreds of millions!!! this year. We pay full taxes for a public school eductaion we do and will never not utilize. In frum neighborhoods, public school kids are bussed in to the public schools because our kids of course go to private schools. This program (priority 7)is opened to the general public. Many in our community qualify. Why oh why must we apologize for that. I am paying thousands in taxes probably double my gentile neighbor. My kids get next to nothing from the state in education assistance. , please think about the inequity of it.
Our community must effectivly sdvocate for our share of the pie otherwise our Yeshivos already in financial crisis will collapse.
Stop apologizing. This is how its done! ”
No, you are absolutely wrong. Just because you are not sending your kids to public school does not entitle you to priority 7. That's a choice you made to send your kids to private school. The inequity that you mention about your taxes is simply because you made made the choice not to use the public school system.
32
Jun 10, 2009 at 09:29 PM Charles Hall Says:
“ I pay 40K in tuitions, have never taken any monies from the government, no Pell Grants, Section Eight, or Child Health Plus -- even when my husband learned in kollel for years and years. My neighbors driving Lexuses get breaks...but we try to do the right thing...even if I feel like the only middle class person who pays full tuition. I know my full tuition payments fund many other children (you too can find out how much by asking your school principal how much tuition you can consider as ma'aser), and I am a big advocate for anything that will funnel more funds to yeshivos. But it's a dirty little secret that the mosdos have benefitted from this program disproportionally -- it's not yashrusdik to say that all these stay at home heimishe mothers emotionally "can't cope" and therefore deserve funding...it's just not true as a matter of fact, except in exceptional circumstances. As for vouchers, they are of questionable constitutionality to begin with (so say ppl. much smarter than me...), and (and I only say this half-tongue in cheek....) do you really want all of the disenfranchised inner city delinquents to suddenly have the funds to go to Catholic school and learn that we killed their "savior"?????????????? Then there's the argument that I can't help but believe, that with vouchers, tuition will just double -- it will rise to the level where ppl. can no longer pay more.
I would love for there to be a way to get the yeshivos the funds they deserve -- but only if it's done in an ehricher way that won't engender a backlash from the community at large. ”
It is worth mentioning that the Catholic Church has renounced the idea that Jews are responsible for the death of Jesus over 40 years ago.
33
Jun 10, 2009 at 09:33 PM A poshiter Ba'al Habos Says:
“ This is astounding. I have a one year old baby and I pay roughly $4,000 a year for full time daycare. Now, $15 million divided by 2000 kids is $7500 per kid. Almost double what I pay. I wonder where all that extra is going. ”
There's alot more than 2000 kids that's Parents will benefit. Where did you get that number from??? Gr8 job Agudah! I c Rabbi's: Zwiebel, Gertzulin & Becker are really making a big change to the Agudah! Good 4 them.
34
Jun 10, 2009 at 08:58 PM Anonymous Says:
Can someone explain the $$ here? I thought this was for after-school day care. $7500 a year for after-school care seems really high, even for NY. Could this be another example of wasteful spending? I know, the $$ goes to benefit everyone, not just these kids, but that's not what it was intended for and I'm not so sure that the city would like that.
Another thought - do we really have 2000 kids in NY where one parent works and the other is incapable of caring for the children? If so, we really need moshiach. If not, then what exactly is going on here?
35
Jun 11, 2009 at 01:31 AM PMO Says:
Well now... isn't this interesting. I've never seen a bigger bunch of phonies than I have with this issue. When it comes time to attack an Obama plan as "socialist", people are quick to jump and shout with hysteria quoting the likes of Rush Limbaugh. However, when it is a socialist program that that they can claim an entitlement to, they will jump on the liberal bandwagon.
I'd like to see someone call Hannity or Limbaugh's show and say "what do you think about the program in NY that allows me to get thousands of dollars from the city to pay for child care while my husband sits and learns in yeshiva all day instead of getting a job?"
ALL socialist programs should be done away with. If you can't afford to have so many children, DON'T HAVE THEM. Why do you think you pay so much in parking fines, and other fees to live in NYC? It is because of these insane socialist programs! Even Obama doesn't condone this level of socialism! GO GET A JOB AND PAY FOR IT YOURSELF. Stop living off the backs of your neighbor's hard work and do some yourself for a change!
36
Jun 10, 2009 at 11:45 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Can someone explain the $$ here? I thought this was for after-school day care. $7500 a year for after-school care seems really high, even for NY. Could this be another example of wasteful spending? I know, the $$ goes to benefit everyone, not just these kids, but that's not what it was intended for and I'm not so sure that the city would like that.
Another thought - do we really have 2000 kids in NY where one parent works and the other is incapable of caring for the children? If so, we really need moshiach. If not, then what exactly is going on here? ”
2000 kids is not that much. Between bp, wsmg and fltbsh with the average household of 5-7 kids is approx 290-300 families per area. I'm sure there are many more families out there that can truly benefit from this program! Eliminating this program means burdening many already overburdend and struggling families!! We can't sit idol while our mayor tightens his rope on our friends and families neck!!
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Jun 11, 2009 at 08:04 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Well now... isn't this interesting. I've never seen a bigger bunch of phonies than I have with this issue. When it comes time to attack an Obama plan as "socialist", people are quick to jump and shout with hysteria quoting the likes of Rush Limbaugh. However, when it is a socialist program that that they can claim an entitlement to, they will jump on the liberal bandwagon.
I'd like to see someone call Hannity or Limbaugh's show and say "what do you think about the program in NY that allows me to get thousands of dollars from the city to pay for child care while my husband sits and learns in yeshiva all day instead of getting a job?"
ALL socialist programs should be done away with. If you can't afford to have so many children, DON'T HAVE THEM. Why do you think you pay so much in parking fines, and other fees to live in NYC? It is because of these insane socialist programs! Even Obama doesn't condone this level of socialism! GO GET A JOB AND PAY FOR IT YOURSELF. Stop living off the backs of your neighbor's hard work and do some yourself for a change!
”
Great point!!
I've spoken to people where I work (Crown Heights, but I'm sure you can substitute this with anywhere) and several of them know people who said, while they have degrees/ can work, they aren't working because it's "not worth it"- they're getting more out of not working and staying home. Section 8, medicaid ..the list goes on. And yet all they can say is "Oy va voy! Obama in the White House!"
One girl (college age, oh wait, she can't CH"V go to college) responded when I asked her how she plans on living, sending kids to yeshivos etc if she doesn't have a good job and her husband is learning, she said "Well, there's medicaid.." I got so mad and said "I'M paying for that!!!"
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Jun 11, 2009 at 10:04 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Great point!!
I've spoken to people where I work (Crown Heights, but I'm sure you can substitute this with anywhere) and several of them know people who said, while they have degrees/ can work, they aren't working because it's "not worth it"- they're getting more out of not working and staying home. Section 8, medicaid ..the list goes on. And yet all they can say is "Oy va voy! Obama in the White House!"
One girl (college age, oh wait, she can't CH"V go to college) responded when I asked her how she plans on living, sending kids to yeshivos etc if she doesn't have a good job and her husband is learning, she said "Well, there's medicaid.." I got so mad and said "I'M paying for that!!!" ”
The economics of the frum universe defy me. And the fact that my high school assered college pretty much meant that my entire generation ended up leeching off their parents -- so now our kids are getting married, and, in the face of a real Depression that will have to cut back on all the programs that kept this insane system going ... And then men with no options, lacking any training, go from gimmick to gimmick in a desperate attempt to support a family. There's a whole generation of lost professionals out there who can't support their families bc the frum system smiles on people who say "well, there's always medicaid".
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Jun 11, 2009 at 09:25 AM EMES Says:
There is a Yiddish saying "Ehrlich is Shverlich", meaning being honest is not easy.
Boruch Hashem most of us are honest. Of course nothing is perfect and neither are we. There is always room for improvement. However, as much as these vouchers were meant to help parents, many of them who are really in need. For example, let's take a couple with 5 children living in a one bedroom apartment because they can't afford to move-no they are not complaining . They were received vouchers, which should cover full tuition for twelve months meaning day camp would be covered.
Well here's the pitch. The majority of the institutions accepting vouchers are doing so nicely and charging the parents tuition and day camp money -and giving them $500 off. So for example the person paying $4,000 tuition, instead of $4,000 plus the vouchers!!! You get the picture. Let the Yeshivos tell these parents, we were wrong, we were not allowed to take money from you and let's see how quickly things could get resolved!
The same goes with Headstart and Daycare- these are programs to make it easier for low income families and no cost, not at discount.
One of the ten commandments are LO SIGNOV-THOU SHALL NOT STEAL.