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New York - Avoiding the Risks of Summer |
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Rabbi Dr. Abraham J. Twerski
But during these months, parents must remain vigilant. The danger is two-fold: What a child may do and what may be done to a child. I have heard it all: “My child is a yeshivah boy”; “My daughter is a wonderful frum girl.” The greatest danger is a false sense of security, and our greatest protection is being aware of the dangers.
Don’t delude yourself. A yeshivah boy can be approached by someone saying, “Try this. It gives you a good feeling.” Youngsters do not have mature judgment and may not know about drug abuse. Drugs make them feel good, so why not? No one has ever alerted them to the dangers. They may have their first experience with marijuana; if they like it, they may try it again. This could lead to frequent drug use. Similarly, gambling can produce a thrill. Some parents may view kids gambling as innocent fun. But this kind of “fun” can quickly get out of control, and can cause youngsters to steal.
Of course, problems can occur year-round—but at least there are some deterrents when children are at home in the city. During the school year, children tend to stay in their frum neighborhoods, and most of the time are either with their teachers or parents. Their time is occupied with their studies. In the summer, however, kids are free to roam about, and they may have plenty of unsupervised spare time.
As we witness with alarming frequency, even in the Orthodox community, there are predators who molest children. Some of the predators appear to be fine people—they could even be one’s relatives—whom no one would ever suspect of doing anything wrong. Moreover, children may trust them. But the majority of molestation cases remain hidden. Most children never report these incidents to their parents; they feel guilty about them and are afraid they will be punished. Sometimes the predator threatens the child, making him fearful of divulging what happened.
Last summer, on a Shabbos afternoon in July, a “frum” youngster was caught drunk driving. He crashed into a bungalow and then tried to flee the scene on foot. Some may ask, How can this happen? The fact is, it did happen, and things that we never imagined could and do happen.
Alcohol is available everywhere, even in the finest camps. Sixteen-year-old kids will often ask unsuspecting adults to buy beer for them, claiming their parents asked them to get it for oneg Shabbos or a melaveh malkah meal. Teens foolishly think they can handle two beers and that drinking is “cool.” But even a little alcohol can cause them to act thoughtlessly and recklessly.
Children may develop a tolerant attitude toward alcohol by emulating their parents. It’s one thing to have a lechaim at Kiddush; it’s quite a different matter when a child sees his father having several bourbons at the Shabbos table.
The single most effective way to prevent these various dangers is open communication with children. Many children are reluctant to tell things to their parents. I was the victim of a bully in elementary school and I never told my parents. I haven’t the slightest idea why I didn’t. Children should know that they can tell their parents everything, and that they will not be blamed for what they share.
Because of the prevalence of drugs, it is important for parents to educate themselves about them, even to the point of knowing the street names of common drugs. They should also know the signs of drug use. Free literature is available at any drug treatment center. If parents suspect their child may have used a drug, they should contact an expert on drug abuse for guidance.
There are also books available on how to talk to young children—yes, even to five-year-olds—about good touch and bad touch, and the importance of telling daddy or mommy if they have been touched improperly.
Finally, children in camp should not be given cell phones. Cell phones permit campers to be in contact with people off campgrounds in a manner over which parents have no control. If it is really necessary for your children to get in touch with you, they can use the camp phone.
At all times, though especially in the summer, parents should know where their children are and with whom they are associating. Ask your children about their day, not as an interrogation but as an expression of your interest. If your children see that you are genuinely interested in what they have to say, they will be more likely to share their thoughts with you. Keeping alert and having open communication with your children will enable both you and your children to have a happy, worry-free summer.
The founder and medical director of Gateway Rehabilitation Center in Aliquippa, Pennsylvania, Rabbi Abraham Twerski, MD, is one of the country’s leading experts on drug and alcohol rehabilitation. He is the author of numerous books, including Dear Rabbi, Dear Doctor (Brooklyn, 2005) and From Pulpit to Couch (Pittsburgh, 2005). His column is regularly featured in Jewish Action.
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Read Comments (60) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 15, 2009 at 03:18 PM Anonymous Says:
Children should be kept in Yeshiva all year. There they may remain under the watchful eyes of their Rebbeim and teachers. Parents aren't equipped to keep them on the derech. Going to the Catskills is a definite way of asking for trouble.
2
Jun 15, 2009 at 03:38 PM Anonymous Says:
There is no need to worry about the Yeshivish guys and the Bais Yaakov girls in the catskills, they stay frum all year around and certainly where they are surrounded by so many Jews in one area they have nothing to worry about and certainly will not go off the derech.
3
Jun 15, 2009 at 03:37 PM Anonymous Says:
There are more risks in the city than in the catskills during the summer
4
Jun 15, 2009 at 03:36 PM Anonymous Says:
what is great about the catskills is that the street in boropark on a sunday is empty and so are the stores, which is great if a person wants to go shopping without the lines and business like there is during the year especially 13th avenue.
5
Jun 15, 2009 at 03:34 PM Anonymous Says:
the city is also dangerous in the summer because of the lack of tznius, and pritzus etc.
6
Jun 15, 2009 at 03:27 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Children should be kept in Yeshiva all year. There they may remain under the watchful eyes of their Rebbeim and teachers. Parents aren't equipped to keep them on the derech. Going to the Catskills is a definite way of asking for trouble. ”
Everyone should remain in Yeshiva forever and this way we will have no more problems. Kids are not equipped to deal with parents that are going out of their mind.
7
Jun 15, 2009 at 03:39 PM Anonymous Says:
There is nothing wrong with going to Catskills during the summer, the Rabanim have not put a ban on going there so its 100 percent fine.
8
Jun 15, 2009 at 03:49 PM Anonymous Says:
“ the city is also dangerous in the summer because of the lack of tznius, and pritzus etc. ”
“ the city is also dangerous in the summer because of the lack of tznius, etc."
Azoy, so sending the kids to the catskills where they will go mixed swimming, have greater access to drugs and alcohol, where the daily attire is much less tziniusdik then in BP or WB is a better idea. Stop worrying about the city...they will do fine
9
Jun 15, 2009 at 04:11 PM The Truth Says:
I think many people have misunderstood what Rabbi Twerski is saying - Do NOT fool yourselves into thinking that this or that (city or mountains, my frum yeshiva bochur or sem girl) are immune to outside influences. There are many bad influences around and the holy Rabbi Twersky is just bringing to our attention some of the things that we as a society / as parents / as teens, think that we / our children will not fall prey to these yetzer horaas. We should all know the dangers of living in the city - we do it all year but with the summer comes new dangers that either we are not aware of or we we may think will not harm us/our kids.
No one is immune to gashmius and instant gratification.
10
Jun 15, 2009 at 04:08 PM Rippin Pinchas Says:
“ Children should be kept in Yeshiva all year. There they may remain under the watchful eyes of their Rebbeim and teachers. Parents aren't equipped to keep them on the derech. Going to the Catskills is a definite way of asking for trouble. ”
The Brisker Rav stated that children need to play because if they learn when they are supposed to play then when they get older, they will play when they are supposed to learn. Therefore, children can and should use the open space and fresh air.
However, Rabbi Dr. Twerski mentions "even in the Orthodox community, there are predators who molest children." Although this is very likely in a yeshiva or school, it is also prevalent in the mountains. I remember many years ago when I was a kid in Camp XXXXXXX there was an older kid, probably 16, who used to come and molest a kid in my bunk, who was about 8 or 9. One of the other kids in the bunk told the administration and of course they did nothing. When children do not have parents to go home to and tell what happened, a bad situation can become worse.
I do not know if sending your children to sleep away camp is a good idea. There are a number of grreat things about sleep away camp. I can write a whole article about that. However, the likelihood for molestation increases. Make your own decisions.
11
Jun 15, 2009 at 04:01 PM PMO Says:
This is such an honest look at things. Parents need to watch over their children. Too often when something doesn't "smell right" parents say "my son is a good boy... and so are his friends... I'm sure it is nothing". If it doesn't smell right, say so. Pull your kid aside and find out what is going on. There is nothing wrong with a family taking time out in the summer for recreation. EVERYONE needs a break sometimes.
Know who your kids are hanging around with. Know who their parents are and how to reach them. Make sure they have cell phones and check in with them often. If they don't answer the phone, take away the privilege of being able to go off on their own. If they tell you they are going to someone's home, or going to a particular place for lunch, spontaneously and quietly check up on them (ie. show up... check... and leave). Essentially, you need to be PARENTS.
12
Jun 15, 2009 at 04:00 PM Anonymous Says:
To comment 8 there is no mixed swimming in the catskills, the bungalows and camps have separate swimming. People from BP and Williamsburg see a lot worse in the city. The daily attire that is less tzniusdik comes from more modern camps that are not in the catskills but in PA.
13
Jun 15, 2009 at 03:55 PM Anonymous Says:
#2: they stay frum and neat all the time; except in the bowling alleys in the catskills where everything" is ok.
Rabbi twersky once again is on the mark-notice other than for his bekashe no one would listen
14
Jun 15, 2009 at 03:53 PM Anonymous Says:
I'm sure that the comments to this article will become more serious over time. Recreation is very important to a child and to an adult. Calling the country Gan Eden is as ludicrous as trying to put hair on a palm. While danger and laxity exists in every environment it doesn't befit Yidden to laugh or to believe that we have some special immunity. I'm reminded that the Brisker Rov remarked - today in Paris, six months from now in Yeshivas Brisk. We aren't immune and we shouldn't be complacent. I believe that diligence and knowledge are essential and that parents should set ground rules for their children. Children shouldn't believe that the country is a place where their parents vacation and the children are in charge.
15
Jun 15, 2009 at 04:17 PM Yoeli Says:
I'm amazed at the ignorance of the people on VIN. Rabbi twerski is 100 percent right. my parents NEVER talked to me about drugs, sex etc. I left Yiddishkeit a long time ago. and to think that there's any difference between the city and Catskills is ignorant. A kid wanting to get beer or drugs or even women can get it as easy up there as in the WB or BP I did it and so can anyone else. talk to your kids about the dangers of pedophiles and drugs. Lastly tuck em into bed tell em the three words your child must hear "Mommy loves you"
16
Jun 15, 2009 at 04:16 PM Anonymous Says:
“ “ the city is also dangerous in the summer because of the lack of tznius, etc."
Azoy, so sending the kids to the catskills where they will go mixed swimming, have greater access to drugs and alcohol, where the daily attire is much less tziniusdik then in BP or WB is a better idea. Stop worrying about the city...they will do fine ”
Ask any rav involved in gittin and sholom bayis issues why right after the bungalow colony season is over do they see the highest spike in the need for their help. They will all honestly answer you it is because of what happens over the summer when the men are alone in the city, and the women are in the mountains.
The gemmarah says, "Ain Apitropis L'Arayos".
Keeping an eye on your kids behaviors and tefillah, are the wisest moves a parent can make.
17
Jun 15, 2009 at 04:49 PM Seen Just About Everything Says:
“ “ the city is also dangerous in the summer because of the lack of tznius, etc."
Azoy, so sending the kids to the catskills where they will go mixed swimming, have greater access to drugs and alcohol, where the daily attire is much less tziniusdik then in BP or WB is a better idea. Stop worrying about the city...they will do fine ”
if they will go mixed swimming in the mtns they will do it in the city too. dont hold BP or willyburgh so high because they arent!
18
Jun 15, 2009 at 04:47 PM Seen Just About Everything Says:
“ There is no need to worry about the Yeshivish guys and the Bais Yaakov girls in the catskills, they stay frum all year around and certainly where they are surrounded by so many Jews in one area they have nothing to worry about and certainly will not go off the derech. ”
You have your head in the sand!
19
Jun 15, 2009 at 04:41 PM anonymous Says:
“ Ask any rav involved in gittin and sholom bayis issues why right after the bungalow colony season is over do they see the highest spike in the need for their help. They will all honestly answer you it is because of what happens over the summer when the men are alone in the city, and the women are in the mountains.
The gemmarah says, "Ain Apitropis L'Arayos".
Keeping an eye on your kids behaviors and tefillah, are the wisest moves a parent can make. ”
it sounds like the parents should keep an eye on each other, not just the kids
20
Jun 15, 2009 at 04:58 PM Anonymous Says:
the lubavitcher rebbe says clearly in many talks to many schools that the summer camps should be used to strenghthen the learning by never stopping to learn and having chidishe counslers and a person must exercize his guff but use it to have koach to learn
21
Jun 15, 2009 at 04:22 PM Anonymous Says:
I think one important place to make sure there is always an adult is by the pool I know of cases were the pool was the right plac for molestation be aware its very danjerous don't let your child to get ruined with one mase
22
Jun 15, 2009 at 06:09 PM Anonymous Says:
the problem with the catskills is that the husbands are in the city during the week and who knows what goes on in the city when the wife and kids are not around and what is going on with the wife when she is in the bungalow and her husband is in the city. This is a major concern with the city and the catskills in the summer
23
Jun 15, 2009 at 06:06 PM Yoshua Says:
Have any of the parents on the site ever asked the camps your kids attend what procedures they have in place to address prevention of sexual abuse?
Has any one asked the camp to explain what "best practices" the camp employ's in order to reduce the likelihood of sexual abuse taking place?
24
Jun 15, 2009 at 05:41 PM Anonymous Says:
If you are staying in the city and sending your children to day camp fine. Some of you live close to the day camps and the kids walk over by themselves. Last year, there were a few very bad accidents involving kids going to camp, some on Coney Island Ave. and some further up. So please make sure that youir kids get to camp safely!!
25
Jun 15, 2009 at 06:31 PM Zindel Says:
Being involved a little with this issue, I can just say:
Rabbi Twerski is 'MEGALEH TEFFACH UMCHASSEH TEFUCHIEM'...
26
Jun 15, 2009 at 05:41 PM Anonymous Says:
If you are staying in the city and sending your children to day camp fine. Some of you live close to the day camps and the kids walk over by themselves. Last year, there were a few very bad accidents involving kids going to camp, some on Coney Island Ave. and some further up. So please make sure that youir kids get to camp safely!!
27
Jun 15, 2009 at 05:41 PM Anonymous Says:
Summer vacation can indeed dangerous game. The issue is not whether u leave the city to the catskills or not. Its the feeling of freedom that envelopes the youth which may cause them to get in contact with harmful ppl. Most of the time its not out of their own will, but the feeling of freedom reduces the well known caution instilled in them.
Parents need to watch over their kids regardless whether they're in camp or in city. Whether they have a cell phone or not. In most cases a cell phone brings more harm than not.
Its the parents obligation and responsibility to keep an eye on their kids surroundings
28
Jun 15, 2009 at 05:34 PM Anonymous Says:
“ “ the city is also dangerous in the summer because of the lack of tznius, etc."
Azoy, so sending the kids to the catskills where they will go mixed swimming, have greater access to drugs and alcohol, where the daily attire is much less tziniusdik then in BP or WB is a better idea. Stop worrying about the city...they will do fine ”
there is no mixed swimming there
29
Jun 15, 2009 at 05:07 PM Anonymous Says:
Rabbi Twersky is right on. His point is that the summer is a time that we cherish for the relaxation and physical comforts that we associate with it. That often comes with complacency. There are certainly risk factors to the city life, both all year round and during the summer. The Catskills and other relaxation places should not be believed to be risk free, by anyone anywhere, anytime. That is his point. And it pertains to adults just it does to kids. The increased amount of free or unstructured time lends itself to additional opportunities for risks. Vigilance is in order.
30
Jun 15, 2009 at 06:38 PM Anonymous Says:
The residents in Boropark must be aware to watch their children when they are on the street because of the recent abductions of girls that took place in boropark over the last few summers.
31
Jun 15, 2009 at 07:34 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Ask any rav involved in gittin and sholom bayis issues why right after the bungalow colony season is over do they see the highest spike in the need for their help. They will all honestly answer you it is because of what happens over the summer when the men are alone in the city, and the women are in the mountains.
The gemmarah says, "Ain Apitropis L'Arayos".
Keeping an eye on your kids behaviors and tefillah, are the wisest moves a parent can make. ”
"It is right after the bungalow colony season is over that rabbonim see the highest spike in Gittin. It is because of what happens over the summer when the men are alone in the city, and the women are in the mountains".
Sorry, but these heilige rabbonim should not blame the problem on the bungalow colonies. Millions of jewish families have been going to the Catskills for nearly 60 years without adultery becoming an issue. If a marriage is good, than having to spend the summer apart does not make yiddin want to go out a sleep with someone else. The real problem is that shidduchim today are not based on compatibility and the separation only accelerates what will ultimately happen anyway.
32
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:21 PM FVNMS Says:
“ Ask any rav involved in gittin and sholom bayis issues why right after the bungalow colony season is over do they see the highest spike in the need for their help. They will all honestly answer you it is because of what happens over the summer when the men are alone in the city, and the women are in the mountains.
The gemmarah says, "Ain Apitropis L'Arayos".
Keeping an eye on your kids behaviors and tefillah, are the wisest moves a parent can make. ”
Rabboisai it's very simple. A decent individual is decent no matter where he/she is and vice versa. Some of your responses, e.g. the country is bad, sholom bayis suffers in the bungalow colony, parents shouldn't send their kids to camp, the problem is the modern camps in PA... you people have got to be kidding me. You don't want to talk to your children? Fine, that's your problem. You don't feel secure in the values you've instilled in them? Your problem too. Don't possess the maturity and mentchlichkeit that make a marriage work? Again, your problem. Do you feel better blaming it on the country or camps? Add being delusional to your growing list of issues.
The reality: come summer, off to camp and the bungalow we go. We have for years and will continue to do so IY"H. Hakol biyedei shamayim chutz meyiras shamayim. If you're asleep behind the wheel in the city, bad things are lurking in the shadows there, too.
I don't need to preach, and frankly nobody wants to hear it. All I'm saying is kvetching the usual narishkeit "oy the country is so bad..." is really getting old and NONE OF US CARE.
33
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:16 PM Anonymous Says:
I see Rabbi Twerski doesn't read enough frum blogs (or attend enough Agudah conventions). If he did, he would know from the 'experts' that the roshai yeshiva have the situation under control and only one ever slipped thru the cracks and the rest is all noise coming from angry wives in divorce suits.
34
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:07 PM FVNMS Says:
“
#2: they stay frum and neat all the time; except in the bowling alleys in the catskills where everything" is ok.
Rabbi twersky once again is on the mark-notice other than for his bekashe no one would listen ”
Your second thought... oy... Wrong. I and most people I know would. Why do you have to make such silly remarks about other yidden? Do you truly believe frum people are so shallow?
35
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:24 PM Anonymous Says:
“ "It is right after the bungalow colony season is over that rabbonim see the highest spike in Gittin. It is because of what happens over the summer when the men are alone in the city, and the women are in the mountains".
Sorry, but these heilige rabbonim should not blame the problem on the bungalow colonies. Millions of jewish families have been going to the Catskills for nearly 60 years without adultery becoming an issue. If a marriage is good, than having to spend the summer apart does not make yiddin want to go out a sleep with someone else. The real problem is that shidduchim today are not based on compatibility and the separation only accelerates what will ultimately happen anyway.
”
Really??? A good marraige prevents all adultry?
And hilchos yichud were written for bochrim and unhappy husbands only? Only bochrim and unhappy husbands can fall victim to the yetzer horah?
A healthy marraige may make adultry less likely but I'd have to be in a drug-induced coma for my brain to be so shut down that I would believe such downright foolishness for the smallest fraction of a second.
The yetzer horah WAITS for just such opportunities and even more so for such cavalier and complacent attitudes.
AIN APETROPIS LE'ARAYOS.
36
Jun 15, 2009 at 07:27 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This is such an honest look at things. Parents need to watch over their children. Too often when something doesn't "smell right" parents say "my son is a good boy... and so are his friends... I'm sure it is nothing". If it doesn't smell right, say so. Pull your kid aside and find out what is going on. There is nothing wrong with a family taking time out in the summer for recreation. EVERYONE needs a break sometimes.
Know who your kids are hanging around with. Know who their parents are and how to reach them. Make sure they have cell phones and check in with them often. If they don't answer the phone, take away the privilege of being able to go off on their own. If they tell you they are going to someone's home, or going to a particular place for lunch, spontaneously and quietly check up on them (ie. show up... check... and leave). Essentially, you need to be PARENTS. ”
Apparently you did not read what R Twersky MD said about giving children cell phones. Now I realize that you are a brilliant person, but R Twersky is a a rov who deals with these issues besides being a MD who was a well reknown specialist in the area of addiction. Do you think he may be as qualified as you? Or does it bother you that his advice is in synch with so many rabbonim?
37
Jun 15, 2009 at 06:54 PM glatekup Says:
“ Have any of the parents on the site ever asked the camps your kids attend what procedures they have in place to address prevention of sexual abuse?
Has any one asked the camp to explain what "best practices" the camp employ's in order to reduce the likelihood of sexual abuse taking place?
”
That is a very good question. I doubt there is a real answer.
38
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:34 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Your second thought... oy... Wrong. I and most people I know would. Why do you have to make such silly remarks about other yidden? Do you truly believe frum people are so shallow? ”
I don't know about #13, but I sure think so!
39
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:31 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Rabboisai it's very simple. A decent individual is decent no matter where he/she is and vice versa. Some of your responses, e.g. the country is bad, sholom bayis suffers in the bungalow colony, parents shouldn't send their kids to camp, the problem is the modern camps in PA... you people have got to be kidding me. You don't want to talk to your children? Fine, that's your problem. You don't feel secure in the values you've instilled in them? Your problem too. Don't possess the maturity and mentchlichkeit that make a marriage work? Again, your problem. Do you feel better blaming it on the country or camps? Add being delusional to your growing list of issues.
The reality: come summer, off to camp and the bungalow we go. We have for years and will continue to do so IY"H. Hakol biyedei shamayim chutz meyiras shamayim. If you're asleep behind the wheel in the city, bad things are lurking in the shadows there, too.
I don't need to preach, and frankly nobody wants to hear it. All I'm saying is kvetching the usual narishkeit "oy the country is so bad..." is really getting old and NONE OF US CARE. ”
A person who thinks he is too well put together to sin is a dream come true for the yetzer horah.
According to your logic hilchos yichud, kol isha etc do not apply to people who are frum enough and certainly not to gedolai yisroel, yet one could fill volumes of seforim with stories of gedolai yisroel b'chol dor vador who went to super-human extremes to stay lifnim lifnim lifnim meshuras hadin on these halachos.
40
Jun 15, 2009 at 09:07 PM FVNMS Says:
“ A person who thinks he is too well put together to sin is a dream come true for the yetzer horah.
According to your logic hilchos yichud, kol isha etc do not apply to people who are frum enough and certainly not to gedolai yisroel, yet one could fill volumes of seforim with stories of gedolai yisroel b'chol dor vador who went to super-human extremes to stay lifnim lifnim lifnim meshuras hadin on these halachos. ”
Stuff and nonsense. I don't believe any of the things you've decided I do.
Not going to the country is not a chumra. There are countless tzadikkim and rabbonim in the country. You're blowing hot air and are impressing nobody.
The yetzer hara follows us wherever we go. So do nisyonos, many an adam ra, chaver ra, mikrim ra'im R"L. They also stay in BP, FB, WB, CH, KJ, NS, MS, LW and Kalamazoo. It is no easier dealing with these realities in any geographic location. Going to he country is not tantamount to inviting physical/spiritual disaster any more than staying in the city.
I know you mean well but you've said a whole bunch of nothing.
41
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:54 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Have any of the parents on the site ever asked the camps your kids attend what procedures they have in place to address prevention of sexual abuse?
Has any one asked the camp to explain what "best practices" the camp employ's in order to reduce the likelihood of sexual abuse taking place?
”
Why should any frum camp owner do anything about the problem?
Think about it. If c"v a yshiva bochur or bais ya'akov maidel went to a co-ed camp, even one with seperate swimming, if such a thing exists (and for crying out loud, let's not turn this into a worthless debate on whether such a thing exists, ever existed, should ever exist or could ever exist or some nonesense about co-ed camps being good for teenagers as a way to prepare for dealing with the opposite gender) would never be allowed to return to school the following year. Your kid's schools will throw out any kid who goes to a camp with no daily learning program. If a frum camp put a television in the staff lounge every yeshiva from Minsk to Pinsk would forbid their students from attending.
A camp that serves OU kosher meat and cholov stam wouldn't need a campus larger than the pool table at Liberty Lanes.
When was the last time your kids yeshiva sent home a letter warning about the importance of the proper atmosphere for your child's summer? Was there anything in it about making sure the camp has policies in place to prevent and deal with these problems?
On the flip side, as soon as it became public knowladge that a camp had such poloiciues the tounges would be wagging from 11th Avenue to Nostrand Avenue.
Would your son's rabbeim be allowed to take jobs in camps that didn't have a kosher eruv?
42
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:44 PM Anonymous Says:
There should be no such think as a summer "vacation." Vacation from what? learning Torah? As a matter of fact, the school day should be lengtened during the summer mounths as the days are longer.
43
Jun 15, 2009 at 10:23 PM PMO Says:
“ Apparently you did not read what R Twersky MD said about giving children cell phones. Now I realize that you are a brilliant person, but R Twersky is a a rov who deals with these issues besides being a MD who was a well reknown specialist in the area of addiction. Do you think he may be as qualified as you? Or does it bother you that his advice is in synch with so many rabbonim? ”
I do not believe in giving children cell phones either. I am in favor of giving my child MY cell phone when they go out so I can call THEM. It is a virtual leash, and adds another layer of protection.
44
Jun 15, 2009 at 09:57 PM Anonymous Says:
“ There should be no such think as a summer "vacation." Vacation from what? learning Torah? As a matter of fact, the school day should be lengtened during the summer mounths as the days are longer. ”
Yes...our yinglach need a vacation from learning and time to have fun. Your absurd comment that school should go longer in the summer because the days are longer is the kind of stupidity that VIN readers don't expect.
45
Jun 15, 2009 at 09:40 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Stuff and nonsense. I don't believe any of the things you've decided I do.
Not going to the country is not a chumra. There are countless tzadikkim and rabbonim in the country. You're blowing hot air and are impressing nobody.
The yetzer hara follows us wherever we go. So do nisyonos, many an adam ra, chaver ra, mikrim ra'im R"L. They also stay in BP, FB, WB, CH, KJ, NS, MS, LW and Kalamazoo. It is no easier dealing with these realities in any geographic location. Going to he country is not tantamount to inviting physical/spiritual disaster any more than staying in the city.
I know you mean well but you've said a whole bunch of nothing. ”
What can I say? You are just a superior being.
The rest of us still need to take every precaution possible and always be on the look-out for ones we hadn't thought of earlier.
46
Jun 15, 2009 at 09:22 PM Anonymous Says:
What do you think makes a poshiter rebbe a "gadol"? Its his ability to control his yetzer haraoh and not be sucked into every temptaion that comes along in daily life. Your assertion that Gadolei Yisroel were in a constant battle to avoid adulturous behavior suggests a profound lack of understanding of how these rabbonim were able to avoid such issues and focus their lives on the study of torah.
47
Jun 15, 2009 at 11:05 PM Kashrus Pro Says:
“ Why should any frum camp owner do anything about the problem?
Think about it. If c"v a yshiva bochur or bais ya'akov maidel went to a co-ed camp, even one with seperate swimming, if such a thing exists (and for crying out loud, let's not turn this into a worthless debate on whether such a thing exists, ever existed, should ever exist or could ever exist or some nonesense about co-ed camps being good for teenagers as a way to prepare for dealing with the opposite gender) would never be allowed to return to school the following year. Your kid's schools will throw out any kid who goes to a camp with no daily learning program. If a frum camp put a television in the staff lounge every yeshiva from Minsk to Pinsk would forbid their students from attending.
A camp that serves OU kosher meat and cholov stam wouldn't need a campus larger than the pool table at Liberty Lanes.
When was the last time your kids yeshiva sent home a letter warning about the importance of the proper atmosphere for your child's summer? Was there anything in it about making sure the camp has policies in place to prevent and deal with these problems?
On the flip side, as soon as it became public knowladge that a camp had such poloiciues the tounges would be wagging from 11th Avenue to Nostrand Avenue.
Would your son's rabbeim be allowed to take jobs in camps that didn't have a kosher eruv? ”
Hate to break it to you but 99% of meat sold in the USA is "OU Meat!!"
48
Jun 16, 2009 at 05:43 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I do not believe in giving children cell phones either. I am in favor of giving my child MY cell phone when they go out so I can call THEM. It is a virtual leash, and adds another layer of protection. ”
So the fact that it is your phone will preclude them from using it?
You seem to be a clueless parent.
49
Jun 16, 2009 at 05:28 AM Anonymous Says:
“ What do you think makes a poshiter rebbe a "gadol"? Its his ability to control his yetzer haraoh and not be sucked into every temptaion that comes along in daily life. Your assertion that Gadolei Yisroel were in a constant battle to avoid adulturous behavior suggests a profound lack of understanding of how these rabbonim were able to avoid such issues and focus their lives on the study of torah. ”
You may be right, I may misunderstand how gedolai yisroel no longer need to worry about the yetzer horah.
However, if so, I find myself in some pretty good company, starting with Talmud Bavli. (I confess - if there is a Bavli on the mesechta I probably never saw the inside of the yerushalmi.)
Al ta'amin b'atmocha ad yom moschah.
50
Jun 16, 2009 at 06:16 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Hate to break it to you but 99% of meat sold in the USA is "OU Meat!!" ”
Of course its OU plus other hashgoochas
51
Jun 16, 2009 at 07:26 AM FVNMS Says:
“ What can I say? You are just a superior being.
The rest of us still need to take every precaution possible and always be on the look-out for ones we hadn't thought of earlier. ”
Wow. So what precautions are you taking against the pritzus and laydigkeit here in the city?
52
Jun 16, 2009 at 08:00 AM Anonymous Says:
“ What do you think makes a poshiter rebbe a "gadol"? Its his ability to control his yetzer haraoh and not be sucked into every temptaion that comes along in daily life. Your assertion that Gadolei Yisroel were in a constant battle to avoid adulturous behavior suggests a profound lack of understanding of how these rabbonim were able to avoid such issues and focus their lives on the study of torah. ”
"Kol hagadol meichaveiro yitzro gadol heimenu". With greatness in kedusha comes a stronger yetzer horoh. And every gadol knows this, and has the mission to cope appropriately. The countless stories about lifnim lifnim etc meshuras hadin boil down to this simple explanation.
53
Jun 16, 2009 at 08:37 AM Karl Says:
The problems continue to perpetuate.
When I saw a bunch my sons underage counslors purchase a number of bottles of booze (while their car was blasting some sort of chasidishe rap) in LKWD
I called the owner of the camp who said "it`s not my achraus what they do after hours".
There was no sense of busha just "as long as it wasn`t under my watch"
It doesn`t stop with booze,
That`s where it starts.
54
Jun 16, 2009 at 08:36 AM Anonymous Says:
“ So the fact that it is your phone will preclude them from using it?
You seem to be a clueless parent.
”
I actually think giving your own cell phone to your child is a great idea. Kids will be much more unlikely to make or receive and inappropriate calls. Obviously it's not fool proof but put yourself in that child's shoes...would you give your MOTHER'S cell phone number to someone you should not be speaking to?
55
Jun 16, 2009 at 09:33 AM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ Why should any frum camp owner do anything about the problem?
Think about it. If c"v a yshiva bochur or bais ya'akov maidel went to a co-ed camp, even one with seperate swimming, if such a thing exists (and for crying out loud, let's not turn this into a worthless debate on whether such a thing exists, ever existed, should ever exist or could ever exist or some nonesense about co-ed camps being good for teenagers as a way to prepare for dealing with the opposite gender) would never be allowed to return to school the following year. Your kid's schools will throw out any kid who goes to a camp with no daily learning program. If a frum camp put a television in the staff lounge every yeshiva from Minsk to Pinsk would forbid their students from attending.
A camp that serves OU kosher meat and cholov stam wouldn't need a campus larger than the pool table at Liberty Lanes.
When was the last time your kids yeshiva sent home a letter warning about the importance of the proper atmosphere for your child's summer? Was there anything in it about making sure the camp has policies in place to prevent and deal with these problems?
On the flip side, as soon as it became public knowladge that a camp had such poloiciues the tounges would be wagging from 11th Avenue to Nostrand Avenue.
Would your son's rabbeim be allowed to take jobs in camps that didn't have a kosher eruv? ”
I'm sorry. I fell asleep after the first paragraph. What was your point?
56
Jun 16, 2009 at 10:02 AM Milhouse Says:
“ "It is right after the bungalow colony season is over that rabbonim see the highest spike in Gittin. It is because of what happens over the summer when the men are alone in the city, and the women are in the mountains".
Sorry, but these heilige rabbonim should not blame the problem on the bungalow colonies. Millions of jewish families have been going to the Catskills for nearly 60 years without adultery becoming an issue. If a marriage is good, than having to spend the summer apart does not make yiddin want to go out a sleep with someone else. The real problem is that shidduchim today are not based on compatibility and the separation only accelerates what will ultimately happen anyway.
”
What makes you think it hasn't been a problem for 60 years? Even in pre-War Warsaw it was a problem, and the rabbonim were worried about it.
57
Jun 16, 2009 at 09:55 AM Anonymous Says:
i just think that its crazy in america that they have such a long vacation they should have like england do 5 weeks holiday 2 weeks winter a pesach and succos and a half term week at shevous time. such a long summer is a nightmare and a big expense for parents. children need routine and have 3 months off there is no routine at all.
58
Jun 16, 2009 at 10:49 AM PMO Says:
“ So the fact that it is your phone will preclude them from using it?
You seem to be a clueless parent.
”
On the contrary.... I actually know how to check the numbers called from my phone online... no deleting the actual record, and I have no data plan on that phone. You are the fool who probably just lets their kids run amok. Nothing is perfect, but when I call one of my kids every couple of hours while they are out, they answer the phone... and if something doesn't smell right (as happened once) I go and check it out. If they are at a friend's house, I call the parents as well to ensure they are where they say they are.
59
Jun 16, 2009 at 05:23 PM librarylover Says:
I grew up going to camp.The last thing we worried about was going off the derech. We wanted to go to camp to be with our friends, relax, chill out..and express our creativity with plays, choirs, etc. Today's generation is left unsupervised, which in our day, never happened, by the camp staff, who are too busy with the money part of camping to see the needs of our kids. If the camp staff would be like the teaching staff all year that are into the kids, if they would inteact with each kid and talk to them, if they would help them express themselves through music, sports, etc, we wouldn't have kids seeking outlets outside of camp. We NEVER did..but today, everything is $$$ and the kids know that it is a free, unsupervised vacation...and so do the molesters!!! They cant wait for your kids to be bored, or to be left to themselves by cutting activities, as I have seen them do, because noone is there to teach them HOW to do the activity..or the counselors (who are kids too) are busy talking to the other counselors, or conducting the activity..so your kids wander off..and then, they are easy prey..I never sent my kids to sleepaway, and as a teacher, I have seen enough damage when the kids return from their 'camping fun' to ensure that I never will. Rabbi Twerski, Kudos, you tell it like it is...
60
Jun 16, 2009 at 08:25 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I'm amazed at the ignorance of the people on VIN. Rabbi twerski is 100 percent right. my parents NEVER talked to me about drugs, sex etc. I left Yiddishkeit a long time ago. and to think that there's any difference between the city and Catskills is ignorant. A kid wanting to get beer or drugs or even women can get it as easy up there as in the WB or BP I did it and so can anyone else. talk to your kids about the dangers of pedophiles and drugs. Lastly tuck em into bed tell em the three words your child must hear "Mommy loves you"
”
How about tucking them into bed and saying "Hashem loves you and Mommy and or Totty love you too."
You may have left Yiddishkeit, but Yiddishkeit hasn't left you.
Now would be a great time to do a mitzvah.