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Myrtle Beach, SC - Beachware Store Owner Found Not Guilty in Parking Lot Death |
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Defendant Eli Eliyahu, center, has a word with his attorney Tommy Brittian, left, just after the last witness testified in his murder trial before Judge Larry Hyman at the Horry County Courthouse. - Tom Murray /The (Myrtle Beach) Sun News
The verdict immediately sparked outrage among the victim's family members and prompted claps from the relatives of Eli Eliyahu, who had been on trial since Monday in the 2007 killing of Bradley Pope.
After the verdict was read - not guilty for murder and a lesser charge of voluntary manslaughter - Thursday afternoon, deputies had to forcefully escort a woman in Pope's family from the courtroom because she jumped to her feet and began to shout "no, no." Another of his relatives pounded her fist on courtroom seating.
just after the last witness testified in his murder trial before Judge Larry Hyman at the Horry County Eliyahu's family reacted with claps, raised their hands toward the ceiling and sighed collectively when Circuit Court Judge Larry Hyman ordered the 24-year-old released from custody.
Pope's mother became so distraught after jurors left the courtroom that she was carried from the room. EMS was called to treat her in a waiting room, from which sobs could be heard throughout the third floor of the justice center.
Hyman held the families in the courtroom until jurors left the courthouse and then ordered the two families escorted out separately to avoid confrontations.
"After two years of trusting and hoping in the justice system I feel this is the biggest miscarriage of the justice system there could ever be. Anybody could see the evidence was there," Pope's grandfather Lloyd Georges said after the verdict. "It's like my grandson's life was worthless. He pushed a guy, which happens every day. I'm not revengeful, I'm hurt. He was my boy."
Assistant Solicitor Brad Richardson declined to comment on the verdict. Eliyahu and his family also did not comment. But his attorneys, Tommy and Preston Brittain, said they were pleased with the conclusion.
"We're very happy for Eli's family and for Eli. He's a fine young man," Preston Brittain said. "We feel bad for the Pope family."
Eliyahu originally was charged with voluntary manslaughter, but later a grand jury returned an indictment for murder after prosecutors sought the upgraded charge.
Pope, 23, was shot on June 8, 2007, outside Eliyahu's store, Jaws Resort Wear in Garden City Beach.
Eliyahu was on the witness stand in his own defense on Wednesday and testified he shot Pope because he feared for his life after the two had a confrontation about the conduct of Pope's two young sons inside the store.
Eliyahu testified that he approached two women with three children and Pope in the store that morning about controlling the children to keep them from harming themselves.
Eliyahu said Pope confronted him, "shoulder bumped" him and then put his hand on Eliyahu's neck and shoved him before the group left the store. That incident was caught on the store's security system.
Eliyahu said he immediately called 911 dispatch and followed the family outside to get their license plate number.
Eliyahu said Pope threatened him in the parking lot and charged at him, prompting him to pull his gun from his pants and he shouted at Pope to leave the property. Eliyahu said Pope charged at him and he shot him.
Eliyahu had a permit to carry a concealed weapon and testified he'd carried the gun for about a year for protection before the incident.
The nine-woman, three-man jury began their deliberations on Wednesday, but stalled that evening when they requested to review a video played during the trial because the video expert had returned to Charleston.
Jurors were provided Thursday morning with still photos in a video format from the store's security camera and the 911 call made by Eliyahu.
At 1:45 p.m. the jury told Hyman they were deadlocked, but Hyman asked them to try again to reach a verdict.
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Read Comments (42) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 12, 2009 at 01:38 PM Anonymous Says:
Its quite surprising this jury worked for his favor. They were probably white people. I would also say not guilty but suprising the jury got him out.
2
Jun 12, 2009 at 01:54 PM Tzniut Says:
Well Well, Kipah & Payot and selling what??
3
Jun 12, 2009 at 02:35 PM dot dot dot Says:
very interesting the charlotteobserver ran this story with a picture of ELi without a kippa, I'm not sure of there was photshop involved here, or he had it off and only put it on in middle...what do you think?
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/breaking/story/776600.html
4
Jun 12, 2009 at 02:21 PM authenticSatmar Says:
And therein lies the problem. Tha father says his son just bumped him and that's a daily occurence. Some people believe that that kind of violence is ok, and this jury rightfully said its not.
As the saying goes, "rather be tried by 12 (jurors) than be carried by 6 (pallbearers)".
5
Jun 12, 2009 at 02:17 PM cranberry stuffer Says:
“ Well Well, Kipah & Payot and selling what?? ”
try to be mature. there are many chasidishe ppl that manufacture and/or sell lingerie.
6
Jun 12, 2009 at 02:17 PM Anonymous Says:
"Its quite surprising this jury worked for his favor. They were probably white people. I would also say not guilty but suprising the jury got him out."
We have not seen the video of what happened in the store. We have also not been told if Mr. Pope had a criminal record for violent behavior. The jury made their decision based on all relevant data.
This is a sad story. I guess we can speculate that this situation might have ended quite differently if Mr. Eliyahou hit a silent alarm right after his throat was grabbed. Hindsight is always perfect though.. How can we as a society help prevent situations such as what happened to Mr. Eliyahu from occuring? Do US courts put enough emphasis on court ordered psychotherapy for those with anger management problems?
7
Jun 12, 2009 at 02:12 PM midwest Says:
“ Well Well, Kipah & Payot and selling what?? ”
I had no idea it was assur to sell merchendise such as T-shirts...I guess we should all be in kollel.
8
Jun 12, 2009 at 02:04 PM Anonymous Says:
B"H ... He clearly feared for his life, otherwise he would never have done that.
9
Jun 12, 2009 at 02:04 PM midwest Says:
“ Its quite surprising this jury worked for his favor. They were probably white people. I would also say not guilty but suprising the jury got him out. ”
I love how you can say not guilty. Did you see any evidence at the trial? Witness testimony? Do you know what happened? Um...I sure didnt and Im sure you dont know exactly what happened either. I assume you base your "verdict" from this website. Well, its a good thing that people like you arent jurors. Jurors should not judge by ones appearance, social stature....and certainly not 3rd hand news. Anyways, who knows what the truth is but Im happy he was released. If you were black you would still be rioting over Rodney King. Why dont you let the judging be done by those IN the courtroom and leave your racist comments to yourself.
10
Jun 12, 2009 at 03:15 PM Anonymous Says:
Good job there was plenty of surveillance tape & that he legally carried a gun. I'm happy for him. As for the guy who died: it sounds like he was a real hothead. Somehow I imagine a huge guy charging like a bull at the Jewboy. Sad, but hey! You have to consider that sometimes, the little guys do fight back.
11
Jun 12, 2009 at 02:59 PM Jordan Says:
That a Beis Din in halachah can hold a goy chayav misa for striking a yid after the fact is one thing. But what acceptable defense does the news article provide? He was afraid of getting beaten up? Threat of being beaten up provides no justification for homicide in my moral system, particularly when there might be other options. Did the goy have a weapon of any kind? Was there no other out? Couldn't he run into his store and defend himself with a bat or some other blunt object? What about shooting him in the leg? Doesn't he go for target practice? What was the likelihood the fellow would have killed him in broad daylight in the parking lot? If the fellow was that out of control, he probably wouldn't have made it to the point where he had a family life. Did he make any of these assessments in his mind before shooting or choosing not to run?
It seems like murder in the second degree to me, at least in NYS where we have such a distinction. It would seem to me even by beis din he's chayav malkus.
12
Jun 12, 2009 at 03:54 PM Anonymous Says:
“ very interesting the charlotteobserver ran this story with a picture of ELi without a kippa, I'm not sure of there was photshop involved here, or he had it off and only put it on in middle...what do you think?
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/breaking/story/776600.html ”
its was 2 different pics, different days of the trial.
13
Jun 12, 2009 at 03:52 PM Anonymous Says:
“ That a Beis Din in halachah can hold a goy chayav misa for striking a yid after the fact is one thing. But what acceptable defense does the news article provide? He was afraid of getting beaten up? Threat of being beaten up provides no justification for homicide in my moral system, particularly when there might be other options. Did the goy have a weapon of any kind? Was there no other out? Couldn't he run into his store and defend himself with a bat or some other blunt object? What about shooting him in the leg? Doesn't he go for target practice? What was the likelihood the fellow would have killed him in broad daylight in the parking lot? If the fellow was that out of control, he probably wouldn't have made it to the point where he had a family life. Did he make any of these assessments in his mind before shooting or choosing not to run?
It seems like murder in the second degree to me, at least in NYS where we have such a distinction. It would seem to me even by beis din he's chayav malkus. ”
the fact is that if he would have shot him in his leg he would have never gone out clean so better to kill such a guy by saing it was self defence otherwise it is almostbetter to get killed
14
Jun 12, 2009 at 03:45 PM Anonymous Says:
“ "Its quite surprising this jury worked for his favor. They were probably white people. I would also say not guilty but suprising the jury got him out."
We have not seen the video of what happened in the store. We have also not been told if Mr. Pope had a criminal record for violent behavior. The jury made their decision based on all relevant data.
This is a sad story. I guess we can speculate that this situation might have ended quite differently if Mr. Eliyahou hit a silent alarm right after his throat was grabbed. Hindsight is always perfect though.. How can we as a society help prevent situations such as what happened to Mr. Eliyahu from occuring? Do US courts put enough emphasis on court ordered psychotherapy for those with anger management problems?
”
he didnt need a silent alarm, he call 911.
15
Jun 12, 2009 at 03:41 PM Milhouse Says:
“ That a Beis Din in halachah can hold a goy chayav misa for striking a yid after the fact is one thing. But what acceptable defense does the news article provide? He was afraid of getting beaten up? Threat of being beaten up provides no justification for homicide in my moral system, particularly when there might be other options. Did the goy have a weapon of any kind? Was there no other out? Couldn't he run into his store and defend himself with a bat or some other blunt object? What about shooting him in the leg? Doesn't he go for target practice? What was the likelihood the fellow would have killed him in broad daylight in the parking lot? If the fellow was that out of control, he probably wouldn't have made it to the point where he had a family life. Did he make any of these assessments in his mind before shooting or choosing not to run?
It seems like murder in the second degree to me, at least in NYS where we have such a distinction. It would seem to me even by beis din he's chayav malkus. ”
What are you talking about? It's clear self-defense. I'm not responsible for your moral system. If you're willing to let yourself be beaten up, and take the chance that you might be seriously injured or even killed, rather than defend yourself with deadly force, then that's your problem. As you say, the halacha is on his side, the jury was on his side, what more do you need? And what grounds would a beis din have for giving him malkus?
16
Jun 12, 2009 at 04:30 PM Anonymous Says:
“ That a Beis Din in halachah can hold a goy chayav misa for striking a yid after the fact is one thing. But what acceptable defense does the news article provide? He was afraid of getting beaten up? Threat of being beaten up provides no justification for homicide in my moral system, particularly when there might be other options. Did the goy have a weapon of any kind? Was there no other out? Couldn't he run into his store and defend himself with a bat or some other blunt object? What about shooting him in the leg? Doesn't he go for target practice? What was the likelihood the fellow would have killed him in broad daylight in the parking lot? If the fellow was that out of control, he probably wouldn't have made it to the point where he had a family life. Did he make any of these assessments in his mind before shooting or choosing not to run?
It seems like murder in the second degree to me, at least in NYS where we have such a distinction. It would seem to me even by beis din he's chayav malkus. ”
A jury heard the evidence and found him not guilty. What's your problem?
You think you know more about the facts than the jury? Or are you just one of those yiddin who would prefer that an innocent yid spends the rest of his life in jail so that a goy shouldn't be upset at us?
17
Jun 12, 2009 at 04:24 PM Anonymous Says:
“ very interesting the charlotteobserver ran this story with a picture of ELi without a kippa, I'm not sure of there was photshop involved here, or he had it off and only put it on in middle...what do you think?
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/breaking/story/776600.html ”
If you look closely (and what else do I have to do 2 1/2 hours before Shabbos?) you can tell that the kippa was photoshopped in for the picture here on VIN.
18
Jun 12, 2009 at 04:20 PM Anonymous Says:
I live in Myrtle Beach and none of the people who are commenting here have a clue as to what this case is about! Everything is recorded bec he was on the phone with the police and the store cameras video taped everything before he called 911 so its not Eli's word against a man who cant defend himself. The evidence shows self defense, and most of all Hashem is the true judge! Good Shabbos!
19
Jun 12, 2009 at 04:58 PM Anonymous Says:
“ very interesting the charlotteobserver ran this story with a picture of ELi without a kippa, I'm not sure of there was photshop involved here, or he had it off and only put it on in middle...what do you think?
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/breaking/story/776600.html ”
#3, The photo with the yamulka on looks more likely that it might have been edited. Look at the photo of him with the yamulka using a magnifying glass.
Notice anything else strange? I see the what looks like some l;etters written where his hair is.. Both photos have a similar caption under them, so they were both presumably from the same time period. Both captions list the same person as the photographer. I wonder how the photographer would explain the discrepancy between the two photos.
20
Jun 12, 2009 at 04:54 PM Anonymous Says:
“ That a Beis Din in halachah can hold a goy chayav misa for striking a yid after the fact is one thing. But what acceptable defense does the news article provide? He was afraid of getting beaten up? Threat of being beaten up provides no justification for homicide in my moral system, particularly when there might be other options. Did the goy have a weapon of any kind? Was there no other out? Couldn't he run into his store and defend himself with a bat or some other blunt object? What about shooting him in the leg? Doesn't he go for target practice? What was the likelihood the fellow would have killed him in broad daylight in the parking lot? If the fellow was that out of control, he probably wouldn't have made it to the point where he had a family life. Did he make any of these assessments in his mind before shooting or choosing not to run?
It seems like murder in the second degree to me, at least in NYS where we have such a distinction. It would seem to me even by beis din he's chayav malkus. ”
who are you to comment on the case? how do you know he didn't shoot the guy in the leg? it's possible for someone to bleed to death from getting shot in the leg, it happened to that football player last year.
and your argument about the deceased having a family is laughable. there are terrible stories every day of 'family men' killing or maiming people, including their own spouses and children.
if the jury found him innocent, they had a good reason. if anything, you would think that in south carolina they would rush to declare a jew guilty, which makes the fact that they did not all the more compelling to believe.
21
Jun 12, 2009 at 05:23 PM Anonymous Says:
“ That a Beis Din in halachah can hold a goy chayav misa for striking a yid after the fact is one thing. But what acceptable defense does the news article provide? He was afraid of getting beaten up? Threat of being beaten up provides no justification for homicide in my moral system, particularly when there might be other options. Did the goy have a weapon of any kind? Was there no other out? Couldn't he run into his store and defend himself with a bat or some other blunt object? What about shooting him in the leg? Doesn't he go for target practice? What was the likelihood the fellow would have killed him in broad daylight in the parking lot? If the fellow was that out of control, he probably wouldn't have made it to the point where he had a family life. Did he make any of these assessments in his mind before shooting or choosing not to run?
It seems like murder in the second degree to me, at least in NYS where we have such a distinction. It would seem to me even by beis din he's chayav malkus. ”
Glad you are not my attorney or Judge. Just to let you know the law in Florida states that the use of deadly force is allowed if you feel that your life is threatened. He most likely would have been aquitted if this happen in the State of Florida.
22
Jun 12, 2009 at 05:22 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ That a Beis Din in halachah can hold a goy chayav misa for striking a yid after the fact is one thing. But what acceptable defense does the news article provide? He was afraid of getting beaten up? Threat of being beaten up provides no justification for homicide in my moral system, particularly when there might be other options. Did the goy have a weapon of any kind? Was there no other out? Couldn't he run into his store and defend himself with a bat or some other blunt object? What about shooting him in the leg? Doesn't he go for target practice? What was the likelihood the fellow would have killed him in broad daylight in the parking lot? If the fellow was that out of control, he probably wouldn't have made it to the point where he had a family life. Did he make any of these assessments in his mind before shooting or choosing not to run?
It seems like murder in the second degree to me, at least in NYS where we have such a distinction. It would seem to me even by beis din he's chayav malkus. ”
The requirement for a finding of justifiable homicide is that the defendant, who has already admitted using deadly force against the decedant, must prove that a "reasonable person" in the same situation and possessing the same knowledge would have concluded that he was "in immanent danger of death or grave bodily harm".
If the decedant was substationally larger and stronger than the defendant, even though he was unarmed, a self defense claim could still be made due to "Disparity of Force".
South Carolina does not require that one to retreat before resorting to force including deadly force to defend himself. Even New York, which does have such a requirement outside of one's home, only requires retreat if one can do so "in perfect safety".
Deadly altercations happen very quickly and at close range. If the decedant was close enought to grab the defendant, then "shooting to wound" was out of the question.
These principles are pretty much the same in every jurisdiction in the US. A New York jury might very well have reached the same conclusion.
The bottom line is that Mr.Eliyahu convinced 12 adults that all of the above was true. He was therefore declared, and is, Not Guilty.
Oh, a final note. The decedant's history, including any possible criminal record, would only have bearing on the case if the defendant was aware of it at the time of the incident. If it was not so known, it could not be introduced into evidence and the jury would not be allowed to hear about it.
23
Jun 12, 2009 at 05:18 PM Anonymous Says:
“ very interesting the charlotteobserver ran this story with a picture of ELi without a kippa, I'm not sure of there was photshop involved here, or he had it off and only put it on in middle...what do you think?
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/breaking/story/776600.html ”
doesn't look like the same picture,
25
Jun 12, 2009 at 05:39 PM joeshmoe Says:
“ I love how you can say not guilty. Did you see any evidence at the trial? Witness testimony? Do you know what happened? Um...I sure didnt and Im sure you dont know exactly what happened either. I assume you base your "verdict" from this website. Well, its a good thing that people like you arent jurors. Jurors should not judge by ones appearance, social stature....and certainly not 3rd hand news. Anyways, who knows what the truth is but Im happy he was released. If you were black you would still be rioting over Rodney King. Why dont you let the judging be done by those IN the courtroom and leave your racist comments to yourself. ”
refuah shleima. even after juries decided that eli is not guilty you have a hard time swallowing it. you probably also believe that oj was not guilty just cuz you believe everything the juries decide. GET A LIFE!
26
Jun 12, 2009 at 06:36 PM Anonymous Says:
“ he didnt need a silent alarm, he call 911. ”
"he didnt need a silent alarm, he call 911."
If he had hit a silent alarm instead right after being grabbed on the throat,, and Mr. Pope stuck around in the store for a while, then he may have been apprehended.
27
Jun 12, 2009 at 06:27 PM Elchonon Hellinger Says:
“ Glad you are not my attorney or Judge. Just to let you know the law in Florida states that the use of deadly force is allowed if you feel that your life is threatened. He most likely would have been aquitted if this happen in the State of Florida. ”
Nope, he would have never been charged in the first place! Also, if the parking lot was private property, and pope ignored his calls to leave, he is justified in shooting for trespassing after warning. I would have shot him twice center mass and let the birds eat him.
28
Jun 12, 2009 at 06:26 PM to #19 Says:
Don't you have anything better to do with your time? You could have been bathing the kids or making the cholent for Shabbos. Instead you're looking at a photo online with a magnifying glass.
No wonder this country's in a mess. Our priorities are all messed up.
29
Jun 13, 2009 at 08:49 PM Anonymous Says:
A civil case was settled last year for $925,000 by the store's insurance company.
www.scnow.com/scp/news/local/grand_strand/article/store_owners_pay_925000_in_deadly_2007_garden_city_beachwear_store_shooting/15923
30
Jun 13, 2009 at 10:03 PM murray Says:
“ That a Beis Din in halachah can hold a goy chayav misa for striking a yid after the fact is one thing. But what acceptable defense does the news article provide? He was afraid of getting beaten up? Threat of being beaten up provides no justification for homicide in my moral system, particularly when there might be other options. Did the goy have a weapon of any kind? Was there no other out? Couldn't he run into his store and defend himself with a bat or some other blunt object? What about shooting him in the leg? Doesn't he go for target practice? What was the likelihood the fellow would have killed him in broad daylight in the parking lot? If the fellow was that out of control, he probably wouldn't have made it to the point where he had a family life. Did he make any of these assessments in his mind before shooting or choosing not to run?
It seems like murder in the second degree to me, at least in NYS where we have such a distinction. It would seem to me even by beis din he's chayav malkus. ”
You are an anti-gun mental case. There is No justification for deliberately shooting somebody in the leg ( unless you know they are wearing body armor, and you can't get a good head shot.) Furthermore, no doubt he did practice at a gun range_ the standard drill is "shoot for center of mass", or the more exotic 'Mozambique Drill", "two to the chest/one to the head" Nobody, at any shooting range practices how to shoot at legs.
31
Jun 13, 2009 at 11:38 PM Anonymous Says:
I dont understand how this guy life was in jepardy. This man goes out tice and to get a license plate? If his life was threatened why do you wait 10 minutes to call the police and not right away and then get the license plate. The whole thing is odd.
Secondly if your life is thretened you immediately pull out the gun, give a warning to the perp that if hes does not abck off he will be shot and then you have the video prove that everything was done by the book.
Anyone who shoots someone AFTER they leave a store will be charged with murder in a case like this. It's a miracle that the jury found this guy not guilty.
32
Jun 14, 2009 at 06:46 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I dont understand how this guy life was in jepardy. This man goes out tice and to get a license plate? If his life was threatened why do you wait 10 minutes to call the police and not right away and then get the license plate. The whole thing is odd.
Secondly if your life is thretened you immediately pull out the gun, give a warning to the perp that if hes does not abck off he will be shot and then you have the video prove that everything was done by the book.
Anyone who shoots someone AFTER they leave a store will be charged with murder in a case like this. It's a miracle that the jury found this guy not guilty. ”
Assuming you were not at the the scene of the shooting and not on the jury, you are just venting excess steam with your wild speculationas to why he was found not guilty.
33
Jun 14, 2009 at 01:13 AM UBET Says:
He can kiss his store good bye because now he will be "looked" after by those that say he's guilty. Im gald he won, but his life will never be the same.
34
Jun 14, 2009 at 07:47 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I dont understand how this guy life was in jepardy. This man goes out tice and to get a license plate? If his life was threatened why do you wait 10 minutes to call the police and not right away and then get the license plate. The whole thing is odd.
Secondly if your life is thretened you immediately pull out the gun, give a warning to the perp that if hes does not abck off he will be shot and then you have the video prove that everything was done by the book.
Anyone who shoots someone AFTER they leave a store will be charged with murder in a case like this. It's a miracle that the jury found this guy not guilty. ”
after all this, you still cant get the story straight? He DID call 911 IN THE STORE. All of it is recorded on the 911 call.He DID tell him" I will shoot so back off" and the idiot kept coming after him. This guy was a very large man and had a history of domestic violence so who know what would of happened had Eli not taken action. Do you remember the frum man from Brooklyn that was murderd in his manhattan parking lot by some jerk that "just pushed him down"? He hit his head on the concrete was dead in minutes and left a wife with 8 unmarried kids! Before commenting get the story straight. If you are so interested look up the facts at the local papers of Myrtle Beach SC
35
Jun 14, 2009 at 09:12 AM Anonymous Says:
“ after all this, you still cant get the story straight? He DID call 911 IN THE STORE. All of it is recorded on the 911 call.He DID tell him" I will shoot so back off" and the idiot kept coming after him. This guy was a very large man and had a history of domestic violence so who know what would of happened had Eli not taken action. Do you remember the frum man from Brooklyn that was murderd in his manhattan parking lot by some jerk that "just pushed him down"? He hit his head on the concrete was dead in minutes and left a wife with 8 unmarried kids! Before commenting get the story straight. If you are so interested look up the facts at the local papers of Myrtle Beach SC ”
Well said!.............If I feel threatened by some thug, pull my gun and demand basic compliance, such a "Back Off"", "Or you will be shot".....now if you think I am bluffing, and you continue to advance, or lunge forward, or put your hand in a pocket.......there is only one out-come- you will bleed to death on the curb. (the only alternative at that point is to wait for the perpetrator to come up to you, take your gun and hoot you in the head with it. If that is your mindset than you need to sell your gun and buy tear gas, mace, pepper spray or a stun gun.
36
Jun 14, 2009 at 10:06 AM Raphael Kaufman Says:
#27, You are dead wrong, no pun intended. There is no jurisdiction in the United States that permits the use of deadly force against simple tresspassers. Deadly force may only be used in case of imminent threat of death or grave bodily injury to oneself or to anorther person. In some jurisdictions, deadly force may also be used to prevent some attrocious crimes such as rape or kidnapping.
#30, I see that you've been reading "Soldier of Fortune" magazine or some such. If you actually did, C'V, perform a Mozambique on anyone, it would be virtually a guarranteed murder conviction, even if the shooting was otherwise justified.
To all you Rambo wannabe's out there, Killing another human being, even a skell, is not a light matter. If you.C'V,ever end up having to use deadly force. You'd better be legally and morally right, you'd better be ready to face, not only a court of law, but the Beis Din shel Ma'alah.
37
Jun 14, 2009 at 12:46 PM Anonymous Says:
“ That a Beis Din in halachah can hold a goy chayav misa for striking a yid after the fact is one thing. But what acceptable defense does the news article provide? He was afraid of getting beaten up? Threat of being beaten up provides no justification for homicide in my moral system, particularly when there might be other options. Did the goy have a weapon of any kind? Was there no other out? Couldn't he run into his store and defend himself with a bat or some other blunt object? What about shooting him in the leg? Doesn't he go for target practice? What was the likelihood the fellow would have killed him in broad daylight in the parking lot? If the fellow was that out of control, he probably wouldn't have made it to the point where he had a family life. Did he make any of these assessments in his mind before shooting or choosing not to run?
It seems like murder in the second degree to me, at least in NYS where we have such a distinction. It would seem to me even by beis din he's chayav malkus. ”
I grew up with these people the Pope family the likelihood Mr. Pope would have killed him or atleast beat him unfairly is very real. Matter of fact I would bet my life on it if it had come to blows the women that were with him would have jumped in too.For some reason these people think they are gangster and the truth is they are just white trash. They would have hurt him, taken his life because they look at him as a towelhead.
38
Jun 14, 2009 at 02:12 PM Anonymous Says:
“ That a Beis Din in halachah can hold a goy chayav misa for striking a yid after the fact is one thing. But what acceptable defense does the news article provide? He was afraid of getting beaten up? Threat of being beaten up provides no justification for homicide in my moral system, particularly when there might be other options. Did the goy have a weapon of any kind? Was there no other out? Couldn't he run into his store and defend himself with a bat or some other blunt object? What about shooting him in the leg? Doesn't he go for target practice? What was the likelihood the fellow would have killed him in broad daylight in the parking lot? If the fellow was that out of control, he probably wouldn't have made it to the point where he had a family life. Did he make any of these assessments in his mind before shooting or choosing not to run?
It seems like murder in the second degree to me, at least in NYS where we have such a distinction. It would seem to me even by beis din he's chayav malkus. ”
Next time someone charges at you and you fear for your life, you can take all the time in the world to think of a way of not killing the bully. If I had a gun, I wouldn't think twice about protecting my life with it.
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Jun 14, 2009 at 03:01 PM Anonymous Says:
I am surprised that the store's insurance company settled the civil suit almost a year ago. Isn't a civil suit usually postponed until after the criminal case is resolved?
I thought I read somewhere that there is a state(or perhaps more than one?) that does not allow civil lawsuits in the case of a shooting where the criminal trial resulted in verdicts of not guilty. I have mixed feelings about this.
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Jun 14, 2009 at 03:44 PM KIKI Says:
“ Nope, he would have never been charged in the first place! Also, if the parking lot was private property, and pope ignored his calls to leave, he is justified in shooting for trespassing after warning. I would have shot him twice center mass and let the birds eat him. ”
You are so ugly....... How can you people say things like that. Eli walked, My cousin is dead. Dont say things like that. Whats wrong with people. This is the only nation under God and you have some nerve. What if it was your family member who got killed for whatever reason you people care to come up with to justifying it. You would not appreciate something like that being said
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Jun 14, 2009 at 03:38 PM KIKI Says:
“ I grew up with these people the Pope family the likelihood Mr. Pope would have killed him or atleast beat him unfairly is very real. Matter of fact I would bet my life on it if it had come to blows the women that were with him would have jumped in too.For some reason these people think they are gangster and the truth is they are just white trash. They would have hurt him, taken his life because they look at him as a towelhead. ”
You are so right hunny..... He would have hurt him, but he didnt..... are ya not seeing the obvious!!!! he shoved him yes....... but he also left the store and was shot in the parking lot and the shove was in the store and if you know us so well then you are absolutely right...... Bradley if his intention was to hurt him he would have done so, but he didnt!! And you saying we think we are gangster "Grow UP" We are a very close family. Not to say we are perfect but everything you are saying make you sound like white trash. And for the record I even call my Grandparents and mom and aunt and my cousin himself a towel head. My mother's side of our family........My great great grandparents are from northern Iran. My family nor I have anything against anyone for the nationality or race. Oh and one other thing Eli and I were cool with eachother before this happen........ It even shows on the video us talking before my family even came in. I am to the point now with you that, my white trash, gangster, towel headed behind would really like for you to put your name out there! It's people like you and this justice system that really bad things do happen. Oh and for everyone else reading including Eli's family...... I felt for his mom she had the same tears Bradley's mom had. They both loved there son's but if Bradley had to be held accountable for him shoving Eli then Eli should have been held accountabble in some way for shooting Bradley. But It's truely over now and there is no changing any of it. My emotions and anger is definately validated. I Loved Bradley with all my heart we were born 8 days apart and were very close and I am very upset, but I still have heart. But i would really love for you just to tell me who you are if you know us so well!
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Jun 14, 2009 at 07:24 PM NO Justice in NY Says:
“ That a Beis Din in halachah can hold a goy chayav misa for striking a yid after the fact is one thing. But what acceptable defense does the news article provide? He was afraid of getting beaten up? Threat of being beaten up provides no justification for homicide in my moral system, particularly when there might be other options. Did the goy have a weapon of any kind? Was there no other out? Couldn't he run into his store and defend himself with a bat or some other blunt object? What about shooting him in the leg? Doesn't he go for target practice? What was the likelihood the fellow would have killed him in broad daylight in the parking lot? If the fellow was that out of control, he probably wouldn't have made it to the point where he had a family life. Did he make any of these assessments in his mind before shooting or choosing not to run?
It seems like murder in the second degree to me, at least in NYS where we have such a distinction. It would seem to me even by beis din he's chayav malkus. ”
You are so right about NYS, but wrong about halacha. It's a shame we live in this liberal state where you can't defend yourself; that's what happened to Bernie Goetz and there the hoodlums didn't die. Instead of being proud of the fact that this state only gives rights to criminals and not to innocent victims, you should be very ashamed!
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Aug 28, 2009 at 02:53 PM Yaron Says:
“ I love how you can say not guilty. Did you see any evidence at the trial? Witness testimony? Do you know what happened? Um...I sure didnt and Im sure you dont know exactly what happened either. I assume you base your "verdict" from this website. Well, its a good thing that people like you arent jurors. Jurors should not judge by ones appearance, social stature....and certainly not 3rd hand news. Anyways, who knows what the truth is but Im happy he was released. If you were black you would still be rioting over Rodney King. Why dont you let the judging be done by those IN the courtroom and leave your racist comments to yourself. ”
Your statement is idiotic; 12 people saw the evidence, OUR PEERS, and they said not guilty, SO NOT GUILTY, and that IS THE RIGHT VERDICT BECAUSE THAT IS THE VERDICT. You also have to remember that those escalate the situation which results in a shooting death are responsible. Eli acted responsibly throughout, where as Mr. Pope did not. He was allowed to go out on his own property and get the license plate number. Let this be a lesson to all you punks: don't be a punk, you will get shot.