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Monroe, NY - Does Times Herald-Record Message Board On Kiryas Joel Stories Incite Violence? |
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Monroe, NY - The shooting and killing of a guard at the National Holocaust Museum in Washington, following closely as it does the shooting and killing of a doctor who performed abortions at his clinic in Wichita, are scary reminders that deadly threats from extremists do not always originate outside our borders.
They also are not surprising. Reports from the Department of Homeland Security and the Southern Poverty Law Center earlier this year warned that extremism was growing and hate groups becoming more active, posing a danger that went beyond picketing or vandalism and bordered on deadly violence. Now, two have crossed that border.
The Law Center in particular has been in the forefront of gathering information about hate groups and working on educational campaigns to help diminish their effectiveness. In February, it issued a roundup report showing that the number of identified hate groups had grown by 54 percent since 2000 to a total of 926, up more than 4 percent in the last two years alone.
The center attributed much of this rise to the failing economy, the election of Barack Obama and the fears prompted by immigration. Just this spring it issued another report chronicling abuses of low-income Latino immigrants in the South, including not only physical threats and violence but also economic crimes such as wage theft and quasi-legal crimes such as racial profiling.
If the pattern holds, and there is no reason to believe it will not, more Latinos are likely to be targets of those upset by the prospect of Sonia Sotomayor joining the Supreme Court, a nomination that has inspired commentary filled with degrading language and extreme speech.
Anyone who believes that these things happen elsewhere is not paying attention. While the Times Herald-Record attempts to allow for a free exchange of ideas and opinions on its message boards — a policy that some believe goes too far — any time the subject is Kiryas Joel, the message board needs to be disabled. If not, legitimate and passionate criticism soon turns into undisguised anti-Semitism.
What can an individual do? Vocabulary is a good place to start. Far too often we have seen and heard public officials apologizing for their disparaging racist or sexist remarks, saying something about not wanting to offend and insisting that the sentiments expressed did not reflect their beliefs. And that always raises the question that is not answered by the apologies — if they don't think that way, why do they use those words? Those who truly do not think that way do not have those hurtful phrases in their vocabulary, ready to be blurted out in an unguarded moment.
No one knows what turns hateful language into violent action. But the history of the two men charged in these most recent murders shows the danger of believing that escalating the language of intolerance will not have consequences. Call someone a murderer often enough and someone listening will decide that the murderer does not deserve to live.
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Read Comments (34) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 14, 2009 at 09:19 AM Boycott Supporters of Hate Says:
Supporters of Hatred must be boycotted. This includes media corporations that provide platforms for haters to spew hatred against Yidden. I call on all Yidden to also boycott NBC, MSNBC and owner General Electric Corp. for hiring Patrick Buchanan as a media personality on its morning show Morning Joe. Patrick Buchanan is a Holocaust Denier and a supporter of Hitler YMSHVZ. NBC and GE have a huge responsibility for providing a National US platform for Holocaust Deniers. I call on all Yidden to Boycott NBC and GE for paying huge sums that go indirectly to support NEO-NAZIS, may they all rot in Gehenom.....
2
Jun 14, 2009 at 09:08 AM Anonymous Says:
Most small regional papers don't have the resources to do any effective moderation of their forums (or they outsource them to sites like Topix). The best they can do is censor individual words, in many cases, but of course even a child can get around those filters. At best, one can hope if someone makes a particularly offensive statement that enough people complain and someone will manually go in and remove the post.
3
Jun 14, 2009 at 09:46 AM Charles Hall Says:
“ Supporters of Hatred must be boycotted. This includes media corporations that provide platforms for haters to spew hatred against Yidden. I call on all Yidden to also boycott NBC, MSNBC and owner General Electric Corp. for hiring Patrick Buchanan as a media personality on its morning show Morning Joe. Patrick Buchanan is a Holocaust Denier and a supporter of Hitler YMSHVZ. NBC and GE have a huge responsibility for providing a National US platform for Holocaust Deniers. I call on all Yidden to Boycott NBC and GE for paying huge sums that go indirectly to support NEO-NAZIS, may they all rot in Gehenom..... ”
Could we at least boycott the Jews who apologize for, or even support, Buchanan harasha?
4
Jun 14, 2009 at 09:45 AM Anonymous Says:
congratulation for the record for finally admitting that their readers are full of hate!
5
Jun 14, 2009 at 09:45 AM Anonymous Says:
I have been reading the Times-Herald for years. I think we should blame the hatered going around on the Times, not on the bloggers. They have written hunderds of articles agains KJ. I don't ever remember seeing one positive article.
If I would live upstate NY and after reading all those hateful articles I would believe them.
6
Jun 14, 2009 at 10:44 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Could we at least boycott the Jews who apologize for, or even support, Buchanan harasha? ”
George Tiller was a FAR bigger rasha than Buchanan could ever hope to be, and YOU openly apologise for and support him. I'll take Yudel Levin's gehenom over yours any day; and I am no fan of his.
7
Jun 14, 2009 at 10:41 AM Milhouse Says:
The Southern Poverty Law Center is a ratbag leftist organization that paints almost everybody on the right as "haters" and "bigots". Only a fool pays it any attention.
8
Jun 14, 2009 at 10:40 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Could we at least boycott the Jews who apologize for, or even support, Buchanan harasha? ”
A secondary boycott? Or even tertiary? How far do you want to take that? Do you want to boycott those who apologise for those who apologise for Buchanan? How about those who apologise for THEM?
The fact is that Buchanan has not said anything that you can point to as proving his antisemitism. That is either because he is not in fact an antisemite, or because he's smart enough to know where the line is and how to stay on its safe side. I think the latter is a far more likely explanation. But to demand that he be boycotted you need more than that.
9
Jun 14, 2009 at 10:36 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Supporters of Hatred must be boycotted. This includes media corporations that provide platforms for haters to spew hatred against Yidden. I call on all Yidden to also boycott NBC, MSNBC and owner General Electric Corp. for hiring Patrick Buchanan as a media personality on its morning show Morning Joe. Patrick Buchanan is a Holocaust Denier and a supporter of Hitler YMSHVZ. NBC and GE have a huge responsibility for providing a National US platform for Holocaust Deniers. I call on all Yidden to Boycott NBC and GE for paying huge sums that go indirectly to support NEO-NAZIS, may they all rot in Gehenom..... ”
Your claim about Buchanan is simply untrue. He is quite likely to be an antisemite, but he has never denied the Holocaust, or said anything that could be interpreted as supporting Hitler. He hasn't even said any one thing that is clear evidence of antisemitism; that is more of a conclusion that emerges from a pattern of statements, each of which is individually defensible.
10
Jun 14, 2009 at 11:15 AM the whole truth Says:
The real truth behind the record is what Meshelooni feed them evrey time ...they think they are hurting the village but they hurt themselves they don't think for one moment what they are doing and what should the goy say? When he gets his info from a yid ?
11
Jun 14, 2009 at 10:54 AM Anonymous Says:
SAME HERE, the Times-Herald is so full of hate, I have spoken to some dencet non jewish neighbors here and they all say the same thing. the Times-Herald is so full of hate that they dont let their kids read it.
every single time they have a little negetive story against KJ they will blow it up on the front page like it would be a OJ simpson strory.
12
Jun 14, 2009 at 01:14 PM Anonymous Says:
read history, read history, read history, it was allways the right patriotic people, who killed jews and where and will allways be racist. its simple common sense. the liberals have agendas, and are over zealoust with freedom issues. which unfortunately effects us jews today since we have our own country where there is a minority. who are treated (maybe for the right reasons) poorly. the difference is clear the right allways hated jews and allways will. the liberals where allways on our side when we where treated unfair.
13
Jun 14, 2009 at 01:39 PM Anonymous Says:
“ read history, read history, read history, it was allways the right patriotic people, who killed jews and where and will allways be racist. its simple common sense. the liberals have agendas, and are over zealoust with freedom issues. which unfortunately effects us jews today since we have our own country where there is a minority. who are treated (maybe for the right reasons) poorly. the difference is clear the right allways hated jews and allways will. the liberals where allways on our side when we where treated unfair. ”
Amen,
14
Jun 14, 2009 at 01:58 PM Seek Emes and Clarity Says:
Patrick Buchanan wrote a book that clearly states his belief that Hitler YMSVZ was a good guy who had good motives. He goes on to imply that the Holocaust is blown out of proportion given the total number of civilian deaths in the War on all sides. He is a Nazi apologist and a Holocaust minimizer. That is the fact. He is no different than a Stalinist. The Far Left and Far Right all are anti-semetic and anti-HKBH. They are both wicked Amelekites. They are both condemned to eternal Divine shame and destruction. The fact is: NBC and GE both financially support Patrick Buchanan.and give him a National forum to spread his radical NEO-NAZI VIEWS. BOYCOTT NBC AND GENERAL ELECTRIC. THEY ARE ROSHAYIM -- SPREADING EVIL AND WICKEDNESS IN THE WORLD.
15
Jun 14, 2009 at 01:42 PM Liepa Says:
“ Your claim about Buchanan is simply untrue. He is quite likely to be an antisemite, but he has never denied the Holocaust, or said anything that could be interpreted as supporting Hitler. He hasn't even said any one thing that is clear evidence of antisemitism; that is more of a conclusion that emerges from a pattern of statements, each of which is individually defensible. ”
We know exactly who Buchanan is and what he stands for. Not sure I understand why you or anyone would give him any benefit of doubt and attempt to even analize what he is ot isn't.
16
Jun 14, 2009 at 02:20 PM esther Says:
“ read history, read history, read history, it was allways the right patriotic people, who killed jews and where and will allways be racist. its simple common sense. the liberals have agendas, and are over zealoust with freedom issues. which unfortunately effects us jews today since we have our own country where there is a minority. who are treated (maybe for the right reasons) poorly. the difference is clear the right allways hated jews and allways will. the liberals where allways on our side when we where treated unfair. ”
the most extreme left is communism.how did the ussr treat it's jews?stalin was plotting to kill millions of jews RL but BH he dropped dead before he could bring his plan to fruition.YOU must read history thoroughly not selectively.
17
Jun 14, 2009 at 02:37 PM Anonymous Says:
“ SAME HERE, the Times-Herald is so full of hate, I have spoken to some dencet non jewish neighbors here and they all say the same thing. the Times-Herald is so full of hate that they dont let their kids read it.
every single time they have a little negetive story against KJ they will blow it up on the front page like it would be a OJ simpson strory. ”
The Record is so full of hate. for so many years now they will turn everything that has to do with KJ into a negativ story. they fuel the hate in Orange County and then they act as if they are the ones to stop the anti semetic remarks... Knowing their rishos for so many years I would go as far as saying that they already penned down an article to a response of a shooting in KJ (it seems to me that they cant wait for something like that H"Y) my only hope for this mshimudim is to have the same kind of end as the newyork times etc. fight for their own life.
18
Jun 14, 2009 at 02:50 PM hey Millhouse! Says:
Just a few days ago Jerusalem Post had an article about Buchanan where it quoted
many statements from this evil guy which in effect denied the possibillity that Jews
were gassed, also on his website there was a forum for Holocaust deniers which
was dropped as soon as JP published their article.
It is a known fact that when he was emplyed in the white house he gave access to
reps of Nazi war criminals who were in line to be deported.
19
Jun 14, 2009 at 03:19 PM Anonymous Says:
“ the most extreme left is communism.how did the ussr treat it's jews?stalin was plotting to kill millions of jews RL but BH he dropped dead before he could bring his plan to fruition.YOU must read history thoroughly not selectively. ”
I am willing to grant you that in the far left there are anti-Semites and anti Zionism, no doubt about it but the center to left was and is hospitable to every minority and Jewish interest and by definition in any country were you had a liberal movement they were hospitable to Jewish interest. Sorry to tell you that Stalin was not a far left he was at the fringe were the far left and right intersects that is the most dangers’ people’s philosophy.
20
Jun 14, 2009 at 05:28 PM Milhouse Says:
“ read history, read history, read history, it was allways the right patriotic people, who killed jews and where and will allways be racist. its simple common sense. the liberals have agendas, and are over zealoust with freedom issues. which unfortunately effects us jews today since we have our own country where there is a minority. who are treated (maybe for the right reasons) poorly. the difference is clear the right allways hated jews and allways will. the liberals where allways on our side when we where treated unfair. ”
Garbage. Hitler was a socialist.
21
Jun 14, 2009 at 05:32 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Just a few days ago Jerusalem Post had an article about Buchanan where it quoted
many statements from this evil guy which in effect denied the possibillity that Jews
were gassed, also on his website there was a forum for Holocaust deniers which
was dropped as soon as JP published their article.
It is a known fact that when he was emplyed in the white house he gave access to
reps of Nazi war criminals who were in line to be deported. ”
Garbage. There are no such quotes. His web site has all sorts of forums that people make; that doesn't make him responsible for them, any more than Obama was responsible for all the shocking forums that were on his site, so long as he took them down when they were brought to his attention.
22
Jun 14, 2009 at 05:30 PM Milhouse Says:
“ We know exactly who Buchanan is and what he stands for. Not sure I understand why you or anyone would give him any benefit of doubt and attempt to even analize what he is ot isn't. ”
Who's giving him the benefit of any doubt? But there's no need to make up lies.
23
Jun 14, 2009 at 05:29 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Patrick Buchanan wrote a book that clearly states his belief that Hitler YMSVZ was a good guy who had good motives. He goes on to imply that the Holocaust is blown out of proportion given the total number of civilian deaths in the War on all sides. He is a Nazi apologist and a Holocaust minimizer. That is the fact. He is no different than a Stalinist. The Far Left and Far Right all are anti-semetic and anti-HKBH. They are both wicked Amelekites. They are both condemned to eternal Divine shame and destruction. The fact is: NBC and GE both financially support Patrick Buchanan.and give him a National forum to spread his radical NEO-NAZI VIEWS. BOYCOTT NBC AND GENERAL ELECTRIC. THEY ARE ROSHAYIM -- SPREADING EVIL AND WICKEDNESS IN THE WORLD. ”
He wrote no such book. You are not telling the truth.
24
Jun 14, 2009 at 05:33 PM Milhouse Says:
“ I am willing to grant you that in the far left there are anti-Semites and anti Zionism, no doubt about it but the center to left was and is hospitable to every minority and Jewish interest and by definition in any country were you had a liberal movement they were hospitable to Jewish interest. Sorry to tell you that Stalin was not a far left he was at the fringe were the far left and right intersects that is the most dangers’ people’s philosophy. ”
There is no such intersection of "far left" and "far right". This is a communist invention to hide the fact that Hitler was a socialist.
25
Jun 14, 2009 at 06:39 PM bigwheeel Says:
“ I am willing to grant you that in the far left there are anti-Semites and anti Zionism, no doubt about it but the center to left was and is hospitable to every minority and Jewish interest and by definition in any country were you had a liberal movement they were hospitable to Jewish interest. Sorry to tell you that Stalin was not a far left he was at the fringe were the far left and right intersects that is the most dangers’ people’s philosophy. ”
...Stalin was not an ideologue, right or left. He was a vicious, cool and calculating murderer who chopped away at his enemies (real and perceived). and when he finished with those, he directed the mass murder of innocent people just for good measure! Just to instill fear in the population! And his conscience didn't bother him at all. We need not enumerate all of his murderous activities, but just a few. He coldbloodedly let Seven Million Ukranians die of starvation and cold, when he wanted to initiate collectivization of the farms and they refused to cooperate. Not to mention his ongoing program of taking young GRU (equivalent of kgb) officers and their families to amusement parks. While the families were having "entertainment" the officers were busy systematically killing "dissidents".!!!
26
Jun 14, 2009 at 06:10 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The Record is so full of hate. for so many years now they will turn everything that has to do with KJ into a negativ story. they fuel the hate in Orange County and then they act as if they are the ones to stop the anti semetic remarks... Knowing their rishos for so many years I would go as far as saying that they already penned down an article to a response of a shooting in KJ (it seems to me that they cant wait for something like that H"Y) my only hope for this mshimudim is to have the same kind of end as the newyork times etc. fight for their own life. ”
You are right I remind myself of that article about someone who I think once worked in kj had something to do with a shooting and their headline was shooting in KJ
27
Jun 14, 2009 at 07:57 PM Anonymous Says:
“ He wrote no such book. You are not telling the truth. ”
The original poster is probably referring to "Churchill, Hitler, and "The Unnecessary War": How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World", by Buchanan, which came out last year. Buchanan is his typical Hitler (yemach sh'mo) apologist in this book, but does make the good point that had the Versailles treaty not been so punitive of Germany, we likely would've only heard of Hitler (y"s) as a loudmouth in a beer hall and bad painter.
28
Jun 14, 2009 at 08:57 PM Milhouse Says:
“ The original poster is probably referring to "Churchill, Hitler, and "The Unnecessary War": How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World", by Buchanan, which came out last year. Buchanan is his typical Hitler (yemach sh'mo) apologist in this book, but does make the good point that had the Versailles treaty not been so punitive of Germany, we likely would've only heard of Hitler (y"s) as a loudmouth in a beer hall and bad painter. ”
Nowhere in that book did he write anything like what commenter #14 claimed. Maybe that poster should seek some emes and clarity by making sure not to tell lies about people. What Buchanan has said is bad enough.
29
Jun 14, 2009 at 09:43 PM Liepa Says:
“ Who's giving him the benefit of any doubt? But there's no need to make up lies. ”
'He is quite likely to be an antisemite', your words. This statement in plain english implies that it's quite likely that he is an antisemite but yet I'm not sure. Have the guts to call a spade a spade, everyone knows who he is and what he stands for, no secret whatsoever on that, unless one has lived in a cave for the last 20 years.
30
Jun 15, 2009 at 12:35 AM Milhouse Says:
“ 'He is quite likely to be an antisemite', your words. This statement in plain english implies that it's quite likely that he is an antisemite but yet I'm not sure. Have the guts to call a spade a spade, everyone knows who he is and what he stands for, no secret whatsoever on that, unless one has lived in a cave for the last 20 years. ”
That's exactly right. In my OPINION it is quite likely that he is an antisemite, but there is NO proof. That is not giving him the benefit of the doubt! Had he been a ben yisroel, we would be obligated to judge him lechaf zechus, and the fact is that there is no one statement you can point to that proves him to be an antisemite, so we would have to conclude that he isn't. Since he's not a ben yisroel, we don't owe him that kind of deference, and can draw what to my mind is the more likely inference: that he is an antisemite, but a clever one, who knows what he can say and what he can't. But that is merely an inference, one that we can NOT be sure of. It remains POSSIBLE that the reason he has never said anything clearly antisemitic is because he isn't one.
31
Jun 15, 2009 at 12:03 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Garbage. Hitler was a socialist. ”
read my response to #16 please
32
Jun 15, 2009 at 12:01 AM Anonymous Says:
“ the most extreme left is communism.how did the ussr treat it's jews?stalin was plotting to kill millions of jews RL but BH he dropped dead before he could bring his plan to fruition.YOU must read history thoroughly not selectively. ”
u didnt read my comment well did i say left i am talking about liberals. communists are the right in russia as per being for the state. when we say liberals we are talking about liberal against totalirianisim.
33
Jun 15, 2009 at 07:27 AM Anonymous Says:
“ read history, read history, read history, it was allways the right patriotic people, who killed jews and where and will allways be racist. its simple common sense. the liberals have agendas, and are over zealoust with freedom issues. which unfortunately effects us jews today since we have our own country where there is a minority. who are treated (maybe for the right reasons) poorly. the difference is clear the right allways hated jews and allways will. the liberals where allways on our side when we where treated unfair. ”
the liberals who support suicide bombings against jews are always on our side?
By the way you obviously dont know basic history because the right and left as they are today did not exist for thousands of years you make it seem like the right wing of today are the same as a thousand years ago this is simply not true. By the way in the holocaust the people who butchered jews came from all walks of life catholics, protestants, athiests, germans, western europeans, eastern europeans. rich upper class, poor etc there was no monolithic group that killed the jews. Therefore it is naive to blame the persecution on the right, the holocaust was an event where enemies and people with nothing in common from all walks of life joined together for one common cause: to annihilate the jews.
another point is there are plenty of anti semities in the democrat party especially one of their core constituency the african americans. The democrats are also much more hostile to israel and to a goy there is no difference between anti semitism and anti zionism since bost are based on hatred of jews.
Lastely according to recent polling democrats blame the jews for this recession in far greater numbers than republicans this is the greatest proof of anti semitism among liberals. http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2009/06/one-third-of-democrats-blame-financial.html
34
Jun 17, 2009 at 06:58 AM JohnfromPearlRiver Says:
While there is certainly the stray anti-semitic post placed on the THR forum, they are not the norm. 98% of the posts are legitimate complaints against the illegal practices and abuses of KJ. But because KJ appears to have the THR firmly in their pocket, instead of simply deleting the few objectionable posts like the THR does on every other topic, the THR removes the entire message board when it comes to KJ.