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Israel - Social workers and psychologists could soon become an integral part of the country's religious legal system, with the goal of streamlining and improving the divorce process.
Under a proposal by Welfare and Social Services Minister Isaac Herzog, which has been approved by the Ministerial Committee for Legislation and but still needs to be legislated, a unit will be established in all religious courts - Jewish, Muslim, Christian and Druse - to provide the judges with support in complicated cases, and help them deliberate intricate issues such as guardianship, alimony, division of financial assets and child custody.
"This will reduce pressure not only on the courts but also on the couple getting divorced," Herzog said in a statement, adding "It's a groundbreaking step in a very positive direction."
The unit will comprise social workers and psychologists from the Welfare and Social Services Ministry but will come under the authority of an already existing department in the magistrate's court system. It will be based on a similar network that serves the country's secular legal system since 1997. There are 14 such units operating nationwide.
A spokeswoman for Herzog estimated that the units could be up and running in the religious courts system within the next year.
She said the minister has been working on the project for more than three years.
"There was some resistance from the Rabbinic Courts but now this project has their backing, as well as the support of [haredi Sephardi party] Shas," she said.
According to ministry figures, more than 6,000 families are referred to the currently existing units each year and 60 percent of those divorce cases are resolved before even reaching court.
Susan Weiss, founding director of the Center for Women's Justice, which is an advocate for change within the religious legal system, said that if such a unit is formed it would be essential for "the state to insist that the professionals are appointed on merit and to ensure that women and secular professionals were not discriminated against.
"It is also important to make sure that any psychiatric opinions or interventions are not prejudiced by religious doctrine," she said.
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Read Comments (17) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 14, 2009 at 07:26 PM Anonymous Says:
This is long overdue. Most rabbonim do not have the training or expertise in psychology and social work to help these couples through a very difficult time in their lives. Having the resource will make divorces go more smoothly and efficiently with less trauma to both sides.
2
Jun 14, 2009 at 08:22 PM Milhouse Says:
“ This is long overdue. Most rabbonim do not have the training or expertise in psychology and social work to help these couples through a very difficult time in their lives. Having the resource will make divorces go more smoothly and efficiently with less trauma to both sides. ”
That's all very well, provided that "any psychiatric opinions or interventions" ARE "prejudiced by religious doctrine", fulfilling the worst of Susan Weiss's fears. If they are not, then this will be a thorn in the rabbonim's side, and even worse it is likely to lead to the Bagatz interfering in cases and ordering the botei din to follow the "expert advice". Remember that the Bagatz has already done exactly that to the Israeli government itself, requiring it always to follow the "advice" of its "legal adviser", thus effectively making him a dictator; given that record it would be foolish to think it wouldn't do the same to the botei din. Therefore these helpers must be chosen, among their other qualities, for their loyalty to halacha.
3
Jun 14, 2009 at 08:43 PM Anonymous Says:
“ That's all very well, provided that "any psychiatric opinions or interventions" ARE "prejudiced by religious doctrine", fulfilling the worst of Susan Weiss's fears. If they are not, then this will be a thorn in the rabbonim's side, and even worse it is likely to lead to the Bagatz interfering in cases and ordering the botei din to follow the "expert advice". Remember that the Bagatz has already done exactly that to the Israeli government itself, requiring it always to follow the "advice" of its "legal adviser", thus effectively making him a dictator; given that record it would be foolish to think it wouldn't do the same to the botei din. Therefore these helpers must be chosen, among their other qualities, for their loyalty to halacha. ”
You are missing the entire point of this new resource. Psychologists and social work professionals are sworn to follow the best practices of their fields and their advice should generally not pose any issues under halacha. But in those rare cases where botei din seek to apply thier understanding of halacha in a manner that will be detrimental to the interests of the family and children, then the courts should reserve the right to interven and protect those interests.
4
Jun 14, 2009 at 08:51 PM Anonymous Says:
B"H!
Now there is at least a chance of the dayanim getting the real story and knowing what kind of wackos are standing before them claiming all kinds of wild excuses for not agreeing to give gittin to their wives who have in many cases already suffered for years with the nut-job losers who stand before the dayanim and babble lies about how they want to give a get but they are holding out only to defend HALACHAH!
Always the same stupidity, these losers who should be concerning themselves with why they cannot function in a normal man-woman relationship, instead are concerning themselves with protecting HALACHAH.
B'ezras hashem yisborach these mental-health experts will be able to explain the problems in the marraiges so the dayanim will understand the metzi'us as well as they understand the torah issues and will be motzi l'or hayom correct psak halachah in every case that comes before them.
5
Jun 14, 2009 at 09:07 PM Anonymous Says:
With the advice of these professionals now obligatory for the bes dins, there should no longer be any agunahs living lives of hell. The dayanim mean well but they oftern don't understand the effects of a denial of gittin has on the woman and children. Kol Hakovod to the Bagatz for this progressive change. Its sad that it took so many years but at least its finally happened.
6
Jun 14, 2009 at 09:53 PM Anonymous Says:
"Therefore these helpers must be chosen, among their other qualities, for their loyalty to halacha."
While these professionals should definitely be yidden whol live daas torah, they must place their first loyalty to the people whose lives are affected by the outcome of the rabbinical courts and apply their best professionaly judgements. Otherwise, they will simply be a echo chamber for the rabbonim whose decisions have so often created severe disruptions in the lives of families.
7
Jun 14, 2009 at 11:31 PM Milhouse Says:
“ With the advice of these professionals now obligatory for the bes dins, there should no longer be any agunahs living lives of hell. The dayanim mean well but they oftern don't understand the effects of a denial of gittin has on the woman and children. Kol Hakovod to the Bagatz for this progressive change. Its sad that it took so many years but at least its finally happened. ”
Warning. This is our old friend the sheigetz, Mr "gadolim"; he is not an Orthodox Jew, and may not be a Jew at all.
8
Jun 14, 2009 at 11:27 PM Milhouse Says:
“ You are missing the entire point of this new resource. Psychologists and social work professionals are sworn to follow the best practices of their fields and their advice should generally not pose any issues under halacha. But in those rare cases where botei din seek to apply thier understanding of halacha in a manner that will be detrimental to the interests of the family and children, then the courts should reserve the right to interven and protect those interests. ”
What right? That is precisely what I'm afraid of, that this new "wonderful resource" is a Trojan horse by which the secular courts will invade an area that is none of their business. What's more important, halacha, or some "expert"'s understanding of "the interests of the family and children"? It's obvious that halacha is more important, but no doubt these resha'im will say the opposite. That's why it's vital that before these "professionals" are allowed in, they must be sworn to place the halacha above all other considerations.
9
Jun 15, 2009 at 09:23 AM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ What right? That is precisely what I'm afraid of, that this new "wonderful resource" is a Trojan horse by which the secular courts will invade an area that is none of their business. What's more important, halacha, or some "expert"'s understanding of "the interests of the family and children"? It's obvious that halacha is more important, but no doubt these resha'im will say the opposite. That's why it's vital that before these "professionals" are allowed in, they must be sworn to place the halacha above all other considerations. ”
As long as the dayanim have the final authority and the professionals act as technical advisors only, I think that's fine. Dayanim and poskim need the best technical information they can get to render appropriate decisions. Being baki in sha'as and poskim is not sufficient. a clear understanding of metzius is also required. I have seen the Skverer Rebbe twice concerning medical issues and both times he consulted with medical authority before offering his advice. Since I am an engineer I, too, have occasionally been asked for my advice by local rabbonim on technical issues. No one (except you, of course) is an expert on everything. A rav or dayan who renders psak without clear knowlege of all the issues involved, halachic and technical, risks serious error. A rav of dayan who doesn't seek expert advice on technical issues, or disregards such advice when offered, when rendering psak is sinning.
10
Jun 15, 2009 at 02:54 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Warning. This is our old friend the sheigetz, Mr "gadolim"; he is not an Orthodox Jew, and may not be a Jew at all. ”
Neboch. A man your age can only come up with insults and name calling when he disagrees with another yid???
Neboch.
11
Jun 15, 2009 at 05:31 PM Milhouse Says:
“ As long as the dayanim have the final authority and the professionals act as technical advisors only, I think that's fine. Dayanim and poskim need the best technical information they can get to render appropriate decisions. Being baki in sha'as and poskim is not sufficient. a clear understanding of metzius is also required. I have seen the Skverer Rebbe twice concerning medical issues and both times he consulted with medical authority before offering his advice. Since I am an engineer I, too, have occasionally been asked for my advice by local rabbonim on technical issues. No one (except you, of course) is an expert on everything. A rav or dayan who renders psak without clear knowlege of all the issues involved, halachic and technical, risks serious error. A rav of dayan who doesn't seek expert advice on technical issues, or disregards such advice when offered, when rendering psak is sinning. ”
"As long as the dayanim have the final authority and the professionals act as technical advisors only, I think that's fine. "
That is precisely the problem. Did you not read my comment #2 above? When rabbonim CHOOSE to seek advice, they remain in control. When "advisors" are imposed on them, and are not answerable to them, there is a risk that they will be compelled to follow their "advice", especially if they are within the power of the Israeli Bagatz. Hence "Trojan horse"; a wooden horse is a fine thing to have, but it's not always worthwhile.
12
Jun 15, 2009 at 06:33 PM been there, done that Says:
“ B"H!
Now there is at least a chance of the dayanim getting the real story and knowing what kind of wackos are standing before them claiming all kinds of wild excuses for not agreeing to give gittin to their wives who have in many cases already suffered for years with the nut-job losers who stand before the dayanim and babble lies about how they want to give a get but they are holding out only to defend HALACHAH!
Always the same stupidity, these losers who should be concerning themselves with why they cannot function in a normal man-woman relationship, instead are concerning themselves with protecting HALACHAH.
B'ezras hashem yisborach these mental-health experts will be able to explain the problems in the marraiges so the dayanim will understand the metzi'us as well as they understand the torah issues and will be motzi l'or hayom correct psak halachah in every case that comes before them. ”
It is time to implement this humane advance all over the world - Now (please G-d) there will be accountability in the far-too-private world of bais din. These Rabbis, though well-meaning (we pray) take the man's story (often lies) at face value and the wife and children continue to suffer. And if the man is known as a "gevere" - the Rabbis are totally blinded to the tragic reality that this "b'al tzedukah" may also be a cruel, unstable, miserable father and husband. Having professionals on board will force these Rabbonim to stop averting their eyes from the Truth of psychological illness and abuse. In the interest of fairness, this will also prevent any women from taking advantage of our basically broken system .
13
Jun 15, 2009 at 11:04 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Neboch. A man your age can only come up with insults and name calling when he disagrees with another yid???
Neboch. ”
This is not about a disagreement. This is about a sheigetz who persists on commenting here.
14
Jun 15, 2009 at 11:11 PM Milhouse Says:
“ It is time to implement this humane advance all over the world - Now (please G-d) there will be accountability in the far-too-private world of bais din. These Rabbis, though well-meaning (we pray) take the man's story (often lies) at face value and the wife and children continue to suffer. And if the man is known as a "gevere" - the Rabbis are totally blinded to the tragic reality that this "b'al tzedukah" may also be a cruel, unstable, miserable father and husband. Having professionals on board will force these Rabbonim to stop averting their eyes from the Truth of psychological illness and abuse. In the interest of fairness, this will also prevent any women from taking advantage of our basically broken system . ”
Rabbis don't automatically take the man's story at face value; but if the wife is the plaintiff, the motzi mechavero, then they must put the burden of proof on her, and if it's just her word against his they must believe him. If the husband is the plaintiff then they must give that same deference to the wife.
Why do I get the impression that you ALWAYS start with the assumption that in any marital dispute the woman is telling the truth and the man is not? Why do you claim that men's stories are "often lies", implying that women's stories are not lies just as often?
15
Jun 16, 2009 at 04:34 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This is not about a disagreement. This is about a sheigetz who persists on commenting here. ”
You still can't do anything but insult anyone who disagrees with you??
What a neboch.
16
Jun 17, 2009 at 12:32 AM Milhouse Says:
“ You still can't do anything but insult anyone who disagrees with you??
What a neboch. ”
No. Can't you read? This is not about a disagreement. This is about a sheigetz who persists on commenting here. He has no business doing so, and I will not stop calling him what he is -- a sheigetz. I use it because it is the correct term, in every sense.
17
Jun 17, 2009 at 07:59 PM Anonymous Says:
“ No. Can't you read? This is not about a disagreement. This is about a sheigetz who persists on commenting here. He has no business doing so, and I will not stop calling him what he is -- a sheigetz. I use it because it is the correct term, in every sense. ”
So now we know the defimition of shaigetz. It means someone who disagrees with Milhouse Hazokain.
Strange, I always thought a shaigetz disagreed with Gd, not with armchair generals, which leads me to believe you are experiencing a severe identity crises and now believe you are Him.
You are a step ahead of the xtians.
At least yoshkah started out thinking he was Gd's son and someone else turned him into Gd.