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Manhattan, NY - Job Fair by OU to Lure Orthodox Jews Away From New York City |
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Avi and Adena Burnstein, center, of Riverdale, in the Bronx, got information about a community on Sunday at a job fair.
The idea, at the jobs and relocation fair on the West Side of Manhattan, was to lure Orthodox Jews from New York City to towns and other cities where emerging Orthodox communities are eager to reinforce their numbers, as was reported here on VIN News.
"They're all over the country," said Frank Buchweitz, the national director of community services and special projects for the Orthodox Union, a Jewish outreach and social service organization that sponsored the fair. "We want to help them grow."
At another table, Alan Katz, a lawyer from New Orleans, said that his synagogue was destroyed during Hurricane Katrina and that the city lost some of its Orthodox community afterward. "We'd like to get some people to help us raise the new synagogue," he said. "We're focusing on jobs and affordable housing."
Scott Friedman, 38, a Realtor from Denver, handed a real estate brochure to a couple. "These are pretty centrally located," he said, pointing to several four- and five-bedroom homes. "There are shuls close by."
"For us, it's about expanding the critical mass of the Orthodox community in Denver," he said. "We're trying to get to the next level."
Jacob Sassoon, 25, a financial analyst from Washington Heights who was laid off a few months ago and got married three weeks ago, said he and his wife were considering a move to any location that could guarantee him work. "Wherever I can find a job, that's where we'll move," he said as his wife, Kara, 28, a social worker, nodded beside him.
Avi Burstein, 25, a mental-health therapist who lives in Riverdale, in the Bronx, said: "We're looking to get out of New York. I've been here for 25 years, and I need to slow down a little." He and his wife, Adena, 26, an occupational therapist, see Denver as a possibility, but not Des Moines.
"I like the mountains, but no plains," he said. "When we're looking, we're looking for something that already has a start-up community. We don't want to be pioneers."
But Janice Schwarzbaum, 50, a representative of the Orthodox community in Des Moines, whose family of nine moved there from Miami in 2003, pitched the benefits of Iowa with three simple sentences. "It's affordable. It's beautiful. It's clean," she said.
"When we got there," said her daughter Chanee Schwarzbaum, 23, "we heard on the news that there was a 45-second delay on the highway." She added, "There's not much crime at all."
At the Orthodox Union's first fair, last year, 14 communities emphasized their ways of life and the moderate prices of their homes. This year, with heightened concern over the economy, 22 communities, from as far away as San Francisco and as close as Stony Brook on Long Island, set up tables, slide shows and PowerPoint displays that emphasized jobs.
"In our community, we have one of everything," said Amy Brooke, a registered nurse from Norfolk, Va., touting the community's Orthodox synagogue, mikvah, day school, boys' high school, girls' high school and kosher market. "And we brought jobs with us," she added, referring to a stack of listings.
"We're not looking for a hundred families," she said. "We're looking for 10. Ten would be a dream come true."
A slide show of life in Allentown, Pa., showed rock climbers and a man tossing a ball with his son, along with images of a kosher food store and a Jewish day school. Abby Wiener, 61, who was promoting Allentown, said that when she first arrived there from Teaneck, N.J., and strangers would say hello, "I got scared."
She added that she went to a two-minute commute from a 50-minute one. "We feel people in New York have to come out and see what opportunities exist outside," she said "We need more people."
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Tehran - Iran Supreme Leader Orders Probe of Election Fraud
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Read Comments (67) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 15, 2009 at 12:08 AM Anonymous Says:
kain yirbu vchain yifrois!
2
Jun 14, 2009 at 11:57 PM Former BP'er Says:
There is more to yidishkeit than what is located in BP, F'bush, or anywhere in the NY or NJ area!
3
Jun 14, 2009 at 11:07 PM rav Says:
jews owe new york alot of gratitude
4
Jun 14, 2009 at 11:05 PM Shalom Says:
I attended the event last year and met with a few community representatives. The problem is, no one from the out of town communities called me back or followed up with me! I know NY is known for the "get it done" attitude, but this took it to a whole new level. They need to get more organized in order to be successful. B'shalom
5
Jun 14, 2009 at 10:40 PM Anonymous Says:
If a frumme yid has no choice but has to leave NY because he cannot find a parnassah or has some other urgent need than maybe its ok. However, there are unique benefits to live in a large yiddeshe community with many choices of shuls, mikvahs, yiddeshe entertainment etc. You cannot find this kind of life in some of these small cities no matter how beautiful they may be.
6
Jun 14, 2009 at 10:47 PM Anonymous Says:
sounds very nice and relaxing all of these out of town places. one thing is for sure, I don't think the people out there get taxed to death!
7
Jun 15, 2009 at 06:30 AM Albany Resident Says:
I live in Albany (one of the communities featured), and I highly recommend it for anyone who is looking. We are only 3 hrs from NYC, 2 hrs from Monsey, so it isn't like you are leaving your family to go 1/2 way across the country. The community is nice, and growing, and everyone is friendly. Email for more info.
8
Jun 15, 2009 at 06:27 AM Anonymous Says:
Finaly people are smart and are leaving the wash machine lyfestyle
9
Jun 15, 2009 at 06:10 AM cincinnati Says:
#5 your right, it is such a shame to live in a place that has only 3 restaurants, a concert once or twice a year, 3 shuls and 2 mikvas, life is a lot cheaper and enjoyable when you eat family home cooked dinners & play board gamesfor entertainment. And why do you need more then one shul or mikva as long as you fit into that shul?
10
Jun 15, 2009 at 06:05 AM Anonymous Says:
And our "great" Mayor helped us make the move that much easer
11
Jun 15, 2009 at 05:51 AM Anonymous Says:
“ If a frumme yid has no choice but has to leave NY because he cannot find a parnassah or has some other urgent need than maybe its ok. However, there are unique benefits to live in a large yiddeshe community with many choices of shuls, mikvahs, yiddeshe entertainment etc. You cannot find this kind of life in some of these small cities no matter how beautiful they may be. ”
On the other hand, there is a tremendous opportunity to be mikadaish shem shomayim by moving "out to the sticks" to a small kiruv-oriented community where the hashpah you can have on your fellow Jews is magnified many-fold.
I would hope that our goals are not just to "live the good life." Even if we try, who says that's what Hashem's plans are for us.
12
Jun 15, 2009 at 05:40 AM It's Me Says:
Big cities have their drawbacks, and it is nice to know there are alternatives. Especially ones that include good paying jobs.
13
Jun 15, 2009 at 05:34 AM Charles Hall Says:
“ If a frumme yid has no choice but has to leave NY because he cannot find a parnassah or has some other urgent need than maybe its ok. However, there are unique benefits to live in a large yiddeshe community with many choices of shuls, mikvahs, yiddeshe entertainment etc. You cannot find this kind of life in some of these small cities no matter how beautiful they may be. ”
Why does one need more than one mikveh?
14
Jun 15, 2009 at 04:41 AM Yankel Says:
“ sounds very nice and relaxing all of these out of town places. one thing is for sure, I don't think the people out there get taxed to death! ”
In most city's the real estate tax is much higher based on assessment than in NYC. You can save by living in a $200,000 house ( which buys a lot of house out there) but taxes are higher than we pay here on our $800,000 houses. Almost everything else except kosher food is less. I've been there - I know.
15
Jun 15, 2009 at 03:55 AM Anonymous Says:
New York City is a degrading, demeaning, and dangerous place for a Jew today.
In my opinion, it is cruel for a Jew to bring up children there.
And it is getting worse . . . much worse.
16
Jun 15, 2009 at 02:44 AM Anonymous Says:
“ If a frumme yid has no choice but has to leave NY because he cannot find a parnassah or has some other urgent need than maybe its ok. However, there are unique benefits to live in a large yiddeshe community with many choices of shuls, mikvahs, yiddeshe entertainment etc. You cannot find this kind of life in some of these small cities no matter how beautiful they may be. ”
as a wife and mommy that just moved back from an out of town suburban community with two cars, and always gorgeous weather, I could not agree with you more. In this crazy world, I want my kids chinuch to be the best I can possibly give them. There is something to be said for walking out the door, and seeing yiddishkiet (sukkos, menorahs, and in general yarmulkahs and sheitlech) all around you, instead of all the goyishkiet the world has to share.
17
Jun 15, 2009 at 07:08 AM Anonymous Says:
From the article; "We're not looking for a hundred families," she said. "We're looking for 10. Ten would be a dream come true."
How long does a kosher market stay in business with that size customer base? The one we had in FLA was expensive and limited. the fresh meat was of questionable certification and there was o place else to go? You going to drive 5 hours once a month to stock our freezer?
18
Jun 15, 2009 at 07:01 AM Anonymous Says:
“ sounds very nice and relaxing all of these out of town places. one thing is for sure, I don't think the people out there get taxed to death! ”
Really? how about 9-9.5% sales tax on everything including basic food in Mobile city and county AL? But you won't be making NY salaries there.
There are only a few states that have no personal income tax.
#5, Unless you are self employed or work in a field that NEVER requires weekend work (outside of pikuach nefesh of course) you will not get an "accommodation" for Shabbat or the Hagim. If the business is open on Shabbat, you will be required to put in your "fair" share of weekend time. Hagim will only be celebrated if you have enough vacation time, which you won't for several years. You will hear "we have other Jewish employees and they work those days." The employers don't make distinctions between frum and Reform. A Jew is a Jew. YOu will be told you can't wear a kippah and a woman can't wear a tichel even if you don't meet the public. BTW, teaching jobs are now requiring your presence on Friday nights and Saturdays for extra curricular activities.
You will be told by the EEOC that "religious discrimination is very hard to prove and the courts aren't upholding such cases." It happened to us is several places, a,l very nice smaller cities with "good quality of life." Yes, very nice quality of life for goyim.
OU just today in Jerusalem actually sponsored a "Yesha Fair." That is the only place they should be recruiting for,w ell Yesha and the rest of Israel. If you aren't ready to make aliyah, stay in NY where your kids have some chance of growing up Jewish. They don't need "rock climbing" in the Poconos. They can go to Central Park or Prospect Park and get plenty of exercise. Lots of rocks to climb on in both.
19
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:14 AM Yosef Says:
To #18, the apologist for NYC:
You are wrong! I've lived outside of NYC (Baruch Hashem!) for years and have found:
1) Pleasant neighbors and co-workers
2) Moderate or even low taxes
3) Decent employers (and in the cases where I've been discriminated, I've fought back and won!)
4) Respectful police
5) Minimal traffic
6) NO TYRANNY -- that is, no arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power or despotic abuse of authority!!!
NYC IS NOT HUMAN!
20
Jun 15, 2009 at 07:43 AM Shlomi Leib Says:
I am moving to Allentown Pa. I am a shtriemel wearing guy but i was told that i will not be the first one. kuddos NY . i will pay for my new home on a 100 x 100 lot and 2800 Sq. Ft. of living space $120,000.
21
Jun 15, 2009 at 07:43 AM Jewish mother Says:
“ In most city's the real estate tax is much higher based on assessment than in NYC. You can save by living in a $200,000 house ( which buys a lot of house out there) but taxes are higher than we pay here on our $800,000 houses. Almost everything else except kosher food is less. I've been there - I know. ”
I pay $2000 per year in property taxes. We left NY 16 years ago because we could not afford to live. I live in South Florida. There are many shuls, schools, mikvoth, restaurants, shiurim, concerts etc. We can't afford to do any of these things, even here, but it is nice to know that they exist.
22
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:17 AM David Says:
“ Really? how about 9-9.5% sales tax on everything including basic food in Mobile city and county AL? But you won't be making NY salaries there.
There are only a few states that have no personal income tax.
#5, Unless you are self employed or work in a field that NEVER requires weekend work (outside of pikuach nefesh of course) you will not get an "accommodation" for Shabbat or the Hagim. If the business is open on Shabbat, you will be required to put in your "fair" share of weekend time. Hagim will only be celebrated if you have enough vacation time, which you won't for several years. You will hear "we have other Jewish employees and they work those days." The employers don't make distinctions between frum and Reform. A Jew is a Jew. YOu will be told you can't wear a kippah and a woman can't wear a tichel even if you don't meet the public. BTW, teaching jobs are now requiring your presence on Friday nights and Saturdays for extra curricular activities.
You will be told by the EEOC that "religious discrimination is very hard to prove and the courts aren't upholding such cases." It happened to us is several places, a,l very nice smaller cities with "good quality of life." Yes, very nice quality of life for goyim.
OU just today in Jerusalem actually sponsored a "Yesha Fair." That is the only place they should be recruiting for,w ell Yesha and the rest of Israel. If you aren't ready to make aliyah, stay in NY where your kids have some chance of growing up Jewish. They don't need "rock climbing" in the Poconos. They can go to Central Park or Prospect Park and get plenty of exercise. Lots of rocks to climb on in both.
”
That is absolutely untrue, no employer in the US will make you violate your religious beliefs to work on shabbat and you'd be surprised how many are accepting, even accomodating of your other needs. If there's an office event, they will go out of their way to order you kosher food. You need off two days in a row for Pesach, rhen again a few days later, and you're willing to make up the work before or after? sure, take the time you need. And I can't count the number of times I was complemented on my knitted kippah. And yes, living somewhere close to outdoor recreation like climbing and hiking is a GOOD THING. You wil be healthier, live longer, spend time with your loved ones, and appreciate Hashem's world as well.
23
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:31 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Why does one need more than one mikveh? ”
Azoy...my inlaws insist they will never go to the mikvah that I go to and there always has to be one mikvah that neither of us would patronize, so we need at least three/
24
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:29 AM Shua Says:
“ Really? how about 9-9.5% sales tax on everything including basic food in Mobile city and county AL? But you won't be making NY salaries there.
There are only a few states that have no personal income tax.
#5, Unless you are self employed or work in a field that NEVER requires weekend work (outside of pikuach nefesh of course) you will not get an "accommodation" for Shabbat or the Hagim. If the business is open on Shabbat, you will be required to put in your "fair" share of weekend time. Hagim will only be celebrated if you have enough vacation time, which you won't for several years. You will hear "we have other Jewish employees and they work those days." The employers don't make distinctions between frum and Reform. A Jew is a Jew. YOu will be told you can't wear a kippah and a woman can't wear a tichel even if you don't meet the public. BTW, teaching jobs are now requiring your presence on Friday nights and Saturdays for extra curricular activities.
You will be told by the EEOC that "religious discrimination is very hard to prove and the courts aren't upholding such cases." It happened to us is several places, a,l very nice smaller cities with "good quality of life." Yes, very nice quality of life for goyim.
OU just today in Jerusalem actually sponsored a "Yesha Fair." That is the only place they should be recruiting for,w ell Yesha and the rest of Israel. If you aren't ready to make aliyah, stay in NY where your kids have some chance of growing up Jewish. They don't need "rock climbing" in the Poconos. They can go to Central Park or Prospect Park and get plenty of exercise. Lots of rocks to climb on in both.
”
Anonymous #18 (very appropriate number for your comment) said: "That is the only place they should be recruiting for, Yesha and the rest of Israel. If you aren't ready to make aliyah, stay in NY where your kids have some chance of growing up Jewish."
Kol HaKavod. Your's is the only comment which demonstrates the level of emunah that all golus Jews should have today, in this exciting time before the final geula. This is NOT the time to be "emerging" and "growing" in the goldena medina. This is NOT the time for "Torah" Jews to be increasing their stake in golus as if Klal Yisrael is commiting itself to remain in American for the long haul. Tather, it's a time to be preparing to say farewell to America with a hearty: "Thank you, it's been swell, but now it's time to go home."
The venerable Rav of Yerushalayim, Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld, zt"l, warned of becoming enmeshed in a golus mentality when he wrote: “Now I understand the words of musaf for yom tov: `Because of our sins we were exiled from our country and distanced from our Land’…This we have done voluntarily …Many times have I directed that the religious Jews in the diaspora be instructed that anyone who has the ability to come to Eretz Yisroel and doesn’t, will have to account for his failure in Ha’Olam Haba.” (Ha’ish Al Hachoma, vol. II, p. 149).
The leadership of American Orthodoxy all across the spectrum should be initiating an all out effort to “emerge” and “grow” scores of new communities in Eretz Yisrael (and not, r"l, in golus). As per Rav Yosef Chaim, I hope the Ribbono Shel Olam forgives us this monumental failure should we not do so.
25
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:48 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Really? how about 9-9.5% sales tax on everything including basic food in Mobile city and county AL? But you won't be making NY salaries there.
There are only a few states that have no personal income tax.
#5, Unless you are self employed or work in a field that NEVER requires weekend work (outside of pikuach nefesh of course) you will not get an "accommodation" for Shabbat or the Hagim. If the business is open on Shabbat, you will be required to put in your "fair" share of weekend time. Hagim will only be celebrated if you have enough vacation time, which you won't for several years. You will hear "we have other Jewish employees and they work those days." The employers don't make distinctions between frum and Reform. A Jew is a Jew. YOu will be told you can't wear a kippah and a woman can't wear a tichel even if you don't meet the public. BTW, teaching jobs are now requiring your presence on Friday nights and Saturdays for extra curricular activities.
You will be told by the EEOC that "religious discrimination is very hard to prove and the courts aren't upholding such cases." It happened to us is several places, a,l very nice smaller cities with "good quality of life." Yes, very nice quality of life for goyim.
OU just today in Jerusalem actually sponsored a "Yesha Fair." That is the only place they should be recruiting for,w ell Yesha and the rest of Israel. If you aren't ready to make aliyah, stay in NY where your kids have some chance of growing up Jewish. They don't need "rock climbing" in the Poconos. They can go to Central Park or Prospect Park and get plenty of exercise. Lots of rocks to climb on in both.
”
I do not understand how you can compare Mobile, AL with anything. There has not been a Shomer Shabbos Yid in Mobile for perhaps 30 or more years. There is no shul, mikva or grocery. Even Birmingham the largest city in the state does not have a butcher, baker or proverbial candle stick maker, let alone a Kosher restaurant. It does however have a wonderful way of life and is infinetly more pleasant to live in than NYC. However one must be of the mind set to live out of the metro NY area and forgo many of the Yiddishe comforts a Jew is acustomed to in BP or W'burg or Monsey. Once one leaves these insular communities it is difficult to find the same level of services one has been used to having available, even in Miami Beach. However one can not summarily dismiss the comforts of living outside the rat race world of NYC.
26
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:41 AM shmel Says:
the only true home for jews is ey
27
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:39 AM Anonymous Says:
The bottom line is whether you want to be a yiddeshe pioneer or enjoy all the positive opportunities of living in a major yiddeshe center. if you want to be a pioneer, move to a hilltop settlement in Judea or Samaria, not to podunk Iowa.
28
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:50 AM Former Resident of Israel Says:
To #24:
Name me ONE Jew who got me a job during the seven years I lived in Israel.
The aliyah industry talks a big game (and they get people like you to talk a big game too) but do almost NOTHING to help non-Hebrew-speaking Jews come and build a life that lasts there. In and out.
Taxes are exorbitant, jobs are scarce, politics are EVERYWHERE.
There is NO imperative for Jews to make aliyah now. NONE.
29
Jun 15, 2009 at 09:27 AM SD Says:
This quote was funny:
Avi Burstein, 25, a mental-health therapist who lives in Riverdale, in the Bronx, said: "We're looking to get out of New York. I've been here for 25 years, and I need to slow down a little." He and his wife, Adena, 26, an occupational therapist, see Denver as a possibility, but not Des Moines.
Look at how old her is! I guess he hates NY.
30
Jun 15, 2009 at 09:07 AM nuchems chussid Says:
It looks like Rabbi Nuchem ROsenberg is looking to build a Mikva out in one of the states! you can see him in the Pic. (the guy with the black hat on the right)
31
Jun 15, 2009 at 09:07 AM Dov Says:
“ I do not understand how you can compare Mobile, AL with anything. There has not been a Shomer Shabbos Yid in Mobile for perhaps 30 or more years. There is no shul, mikva or grocery. Even Birmingham the largest city in the state does not have a butcher, baker or proverbial candle stick maker, let alone a Kosher restaurant. It does however have a wonderful way of life and is infinetly more pleasant to live in than NYC. However one must be of the mind set to live out of the metro NY area and forgo many of the Yiddishe comforts a Jew is acustomed to in BP or W'burg or Monsey. Once one leaves these insular communities it is difficult to find the same level of services one has been used to having available, even in Miami Beach. However one can not summarily dismiss the comforts of living outside the rat race world of NYC. ”
Some pioneers may wish to leave BP and Willy and consider out of town places like Queens and 5 Towns. If enough move there, we can bring yiddishkeit to such frontiers
32
Jun 15, 2009 at 09:34 AM Ken Zein Says:
“ From the article; "We're not looking for a hundred families," she said. "We're looking for 10. Ten would be a dream come true."
How long does a kosher market stay in business with that size customer base? The one we had in FLA was expensive and limited. the fresh meat was of questionable certification and there was o place else to go? You going to drive 5 hours once a month to stock our freezer?
”
are you interested in fish or Jews? Our community (Norfolk, VA--featured at the expo) started with just a few families--today there are over 100. When you come to a small community like ours, you really appreciate the effect that just one Jewish neshama can have on klal Yisroel. To strain the metaphor to the breaking point--are you more interested in being the small fish in the big pond, or the big fish in the small pond? Aichainu B'nai Yisroel need help in these small communities--we lead rich full Jewish lives in happy, healthy (low tax) communities--why not think about it? www.bnaiisrael.org
33
Jun 15, 2009 at 09:47 AM Anonymous Says:
“ are you interested in fish or Jews? Our community (Norfolk, VA--featured at the expo) started with just a few families--today there are over 100. When you come to a small community like ours, you really appreciate the effect that just one Jewish neshama can have on klal Yisroel. To strain the metaphor to the breaking point--are you more interested in being the small fish in the big pond, or the big fish in the small pond? Aichainu B'nai Yisroel need help in these small communities--we lead rich full Jewish lives in happy, healthy (low tax) communities--why not think about it? www.bnaiisrael.org ”
ive been to norflok for shabbos more than once. theres no 100 families there,not by a long shot.not frum ones anyways.
34
Jun 15, 2009 at 09:37 AM Izzy Says:
I live in Houston where we have:
3 frum neighborhoods,
7 shuls,
3 day schools,
Affordable housing (3-5 BR houses b/t 125K-225K),
No state or city income tax(!),
Reasonable property tax,
A young, quickly growing community (many from the NY metro area)
Houston is the 4th largest city in the country, with a strong economy and job market.
35
Jun 15, 2009 at 10:18 AM Shua Says:
“ To #24:
Name me ONE Jew who got me a job during the seven years I lived in Israel.
The aliyah industry talks a big game (and they get people like you to talk a big game too) but do almost NOTHING to help non-Hebrew-speaking Jews come and build a life that lasts there. In and out.
Taxes are exorbitant, jobs are scarce, politics are EVERYWHERE.
There is NO imperative for Jews to make aliyah now. NONE.
”
Former Resident of Israel (#28) wrote: "There is NO imperative for Jews to make aliyah now. NONE."
I'm afraid that there is much to argue with you here. I would suggest that you (and EVERYONE else, if you have the courage) read Rabbi Zev Leff's essay: "Where is the Religious Aliya from the West?" VIN does not allow me to include a link to another web site, but if you cut and paste the title (along with the quotes) into the Google search bar, you can download Rabbi Leff's essay in its entirety.
Rabbi Leff presents an encompassing exposition of the mitzvah of "yishuv ha'aretz," which challenges your proposition that there is no imperative for Jews to make aliyah now. One had best be prepared for some cognitive dissonance, and to do battle with the likes of such gedolim as Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld, zt"l, the Chafetz Chaim, zt"l, the Chazon Ish, zt"l, among others. Step by step Rabbi Leff halachically derails the common excuses of so many 'locked-into-golus-mentality' Jews.
This mentality is amply demonstrated by almost all of the comments on this thread. And what a depressing thread it is: "Yada, yada yada about one golus-community over another. All the while the Ribbono Shel Olam cries over our collective lack of bitachon and emunah in the imminence of the final geula. As I mentioned in a previous comment, Rav Yosef Chaim warns that our collective failure to make aliyah NOW will be held against us in Ha'Olam Haba.
36
Jun 15, 2009 at 10:34 AM yaakov Says:
I moved to silver spring md from brooklyn 10 years ago. I have not gotten 1 parking ticket in all these years. Shopping is a mechayeh, hardly any traffic, no cars honking at all hours of the day and night etc etc, and o yes my blood pressure is down.
37
Jun 15, 2009 at 11:36 AM sane Says:
“ Former Resident of Israel (#28) wrote: "There is NO imperative for Jews to make aliyah now. NONE."
I'm afraid that there is much to argue with you here. I would suggest that you (and EVERYONE else, if you have the courage) read Rabbi Zev Leff's essay: "Where is the Religious Aliya from the West?" VIN does not allow me to include a link to another web site, but if you cut and paste the title (along with the quotes) into the Google search bar, you can download Rabbi Leff's essay in its entirety.
Rabbi Leff presents an encompassing exposition of the mitzvah of "yishuv ha'aretz," which challenges your proposition that there is no imperative for Jews to make aliyah now. One had best be prepared for some cognitive dissonance, and to do battle with the likes of such gedolim as Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld, zt"l, the Chafetz Chaim, zt"l, the Chazon Ish, zt"l, among others. Step by step Rabbi Leff halachically derails the common excuses of so many 'locked-into-golus-mentality' Jews.
This mentality is amply demonstrated by almost all of the comments on this thread. And what a depressing thread it is: "Yada, yada yada about one golus-community over another. All the while the Ribbono Shel Olam cries over our collective lack of bitachon and emunah in the imminence of the final geula. As I mentioned in a previous comment, Rav Yosef Chaim warns that our collective failure to make aliyah NOW will be held against us in Ha'Olam Haba. ”
I would tend to agree with you. However, if this is true, then why hasn't our organized leadership encouraged Aliya?
38
Jun 15, 2009 at 11:36 AM David Says:
“ Really? how about 9-9.5% sales tax on everything including basic food in Mobile city and county AL? But you won't be making NY salaries there.
There are only a few states that have no personal income tax.
#5, Unless you are self employed or work in a field that NEVER requires weekend work (outside of pikuach nefesh of course) you will not get an "accommodation" for Shabbat or the Hagim. If the business is open on Shabbat, you will be required to put in your "fair" share of weekend time. Hagim will only be celebrated if you have enough vacation time, which you won't for several years. You will hear "we have other Jewish employees and they work those days." The employers don't make distinctions between frum and Reform. A Jew is a Jew. YOu will be told you can't wear a kippah and a woman can't wear a tichel even if you don't meet the public. BTW, teaching jobs are now requiring your presence on Friday nights and Saturdays for extra curricular activities.
You will be told by the EEOC that "religious discrimination is very hard to prove and the courts aren't upholding such cases." It happened to us is several places, a,l very nice smaller cities with "good quality of life." Yes, very nice quality of life for goyim.
OU just today in Jerusalem actually sponsored a "Yesha Fair." That is the only place they should be recruiting for,w ell Yesha and the rest of Israel. If you aren't ready to make aliyah, stay in NY where your kids have some chance of growing up Jewish. They don't need "rock climbing" in the Poconos. They can go to Central Park or Prospect Park and get plenty of exercise. Lots of rocks to climb on in both.
”
I worked in a high-stress, heavy-hours large law firm in the Midwest for five years. Only once did someone (a lower level partner) give me a hard time about Shabbos Yom Tov, but there were no actual repercussions for me taking the time off. Also, I wore a kippah at work and in court without any problems. I doubt that my experience is any different than attorneys in New York. We also have many frum attorneys and other professionals who shomer shabbos in my Midwestern city.
My wife works for the local public schools and has never had a problem with taking off for Shabbos or Yom Tov.
39
Jun 15, 2009 at 11:31 AM Anonymous2anonymous Says:
“ ive been to norflok for shabbos more than once. theres no 100 families there,not by a long shot.not frum ones anyways. ”
Maybe you davened across the street by mistake.
40
Jun 15, 2009 at 11:27 AM Israel is home Says:
as a wife and mommy that just moved back from an out of town suburban community with two cars, and always gorgeous weather, I could not agree with you more. In this crazy world, I want my kids chinuch to be the best I can possibly give them. There is something to be said for walking out the door, and seeing yiddishkiet (sukkos, menorahs, and in general yarmulkahs and sheitlech) all around you, instead of all the goyishkiet the world has to share.
COME LIVE IN EFRAT, TELSE STONE OR RAANANA
41
Jun 15, 2009 at 12:18 PM PMO Says:
“ Really? how about 9-9.5% sales tax on everything including basic food in Mobile city and county AL? But you won't be making NY salaries there.
There are only a few states that have no personal income tax.
#5, Unless you are self employed or work in a field that NEVER requires weekend work (outside of pikuach nefesh of course) you will not get an "accommodation" for Shabbat or the Hagim. If the business is open on Shabbat, you will be required to put in your "fair" share of weekend time. Hagim will only be celebrated if you have enough vacation time, which you won't for several years. You will hear "we have other Jewish employees and they work those days." The employers don't make distinctions between frum and Reform. A Jew is a Jew. YOu will be told you can't wear a kippah and a woman can't wear a tichel even if you don't meet the public. BTW, teaching jobs are now requiring your presence on Friday nights and Saturdays for extra curricular activities.
You will be told by the EEOC that "religious discrimination is very hard to prove and the courts aren't upholding such cases." It happened to us is several places, a,l very nice smaller cities with "good quality of life." Yes, very nice quality of life for goyim.
OU just today in Jerusalem actually sponsored a "Yesha Fair." That is the only place they should be recruiting for,w ell Yesha and the rest of Israel. If you aren't ready to make aliyah, stay in NY where your kids have some chance of growing up Jewish. They don't need "rock climbing" in the Poconos. They can go to Central Park or Prospect Park and get plenty of exercise. Lots of rocks to climb on in both.
”
Yes, most companies (since they are not run by frum yidden) require you to use vacation/personal time to take off for yom tov. Why is that a problem? It is your responsibility to let them know the days at the beginning of the year, and schedule the vacation time. I've worked for 6 different companies since moving to FL (I only worked for a yid ONCE) and it has NEVER been a problem. The only guy I know with a problem is the guy who constantly misses work for phony reasons and then a week before yom tov comes into the office and says he needs the days off. If you respect your employer they will generally respect you. With my new job, I told them up-front that I would always need those days off without question. I was asked to submit the days up front and it was accepted right away. If you work a job where the office is open 24*365, offer up front to work on the goyishe holidays in return (including the US holidays like Labor Day). That gesture to your fellow employees who really want those days off, is usually more than enough to bring about a good arrangement.
As far as wearing a kippah, I have never heard of anyone here having that problem. There was an issue with a woman wearing a "snood" here once. She just started wearing her sheitel instead.
The only people I have encountered who have had any REAL problems in the workplace have mostly just been troublemakers.
42
Jun 15, 2009 at 12:17 PM Shua Says:
“ I would tend to agree with you. However, if this is true, then why hasn't our organized leadership encouraged Aliya? ”
Sane asked: "...why hasn't our organized leadership encouraged Aliya?"
Sigh...this is a question which baffles me and I wish I knew the 'truthful' answer. The consensus among people who I have discussed this with is that the orthodox leadership is well aware of our overwhelming golus mentality...is aware that when most frum American Jews say "L'shana haba b'Yerushalyim" they really don't mean it. In short, if they called for large-scale aliyah from America, very few would listen to them. The result would not be the intended Kiddush Hashem, but the opposite: not a massive demonstration of emunah, but a massive Chillul Hashem instead. After all, just read most of the comments in this thread...it makes me want to cry.
43
Jun 15, 2009 at 12:28 PM Anonymous Says:
there are no teens or very rare in Small town USA. Also everyone counts.
44
Jun 15, 2009 at 12:22 PM It's Me Says:
“ are you interested in fish or Jews? Our community (Norfolk, VA--featured at the expo) started with just a few families--today there are over 100. When you come to a small community like ours, you really appreciate the effect that just one Jewish neshama can have on klal Yisroel. To strain the metaphor to the breaking point--are you more interested in being the small fish in the big pond, or the big fish in the small pond? Aichainu B'nai Yisroel need help in these small communities--we lead rich full Jewish lives in happy, healthy (low tax) communities--why not think about it? www.bnaiisrael.org ”
Point well made, and it sounds like an interesting community. Looking at the website it seems there is all a Jew needs.
45
Jun 15, 2009 at 01:15 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I live in Houston where we have:
3 frum neighborhoods,
7 shuls,
3 day schools,
Affordable housing (3-5 BR houses b/t 125K-225K),
No state or city income tax(!),
Reasonable property tax,
A young, quickly growing community (many from the NY metro area)
Houston is the 4th largest city in the country, with a strong economy and job market.
”
What's the weather like? We're thinking of it, but someone mentioned it's very humid. Humid like Florida?
46
Jun 15, 2009 at 12:44 PM BEEN THERE Says:
“ Former Resident of Israel (#28) wrote: "There is NO imperative for Jews to make aliyah now. NONE."
I'm afraid that there is much to argue with you here. I would suggest that you (and EVERYONE else, if you have the courage) read Rabbi Zev Leff's essay: "Where is the Religious Aliya from the West?" VIN does not allow me to include a link to another web site, but if you cut and paste the title (along with the quotes) into the Google search bar, you can download Rabbi Leff's essay in its entirety.
Rabbi Leff presents an encompassing exposition of the mitzvah of "yishuv ha'aretz," which challenges your proposition that there is no imperative for Jews to make aliyah now. One had best be prepared for some cognitive dissonance, and to do battle with the likes of such gedolim as Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld, zt"l, the Chafetz Chaim, zt"l, the Chazon Ish, zt"l, among others. Step by step Rabbi Leff halachically derails the common excuses of so many 'locked-into-golus-mentality' Jews.
This mentality is amply demonstrated by almost all of the comments on this thread. And what a depressing thread it is: "Yada, yada yada about one golus-community over another. All the while the Ribbono Shel Olam cries over our collective lack of bitachon and emunah in the imminence of the final geula. As I mentioned in a previous comment, Rav Yosef Chaim warns that our collective failure to make aliyah NOW will be held against us in Ha'Olam Haba. ”
Aliyah is a business, plain and simple.
I made aliyah during the days of the AACI. They did NOTHING to help me. Nothing.
The Sochnut actually went out of its way to NOT help me. Of course, the Israeli bureaucracy -- Misrad HaKlita, Misrad HaPanim -- also were unhelpful, particularly because I came from America. (American olim know what I mean by this.)
The gig is this: Get Western olim in, get their money for awhile, get army service, taxes, whatever we can from them, give them little resources, and let them leave if they want. In fact, today the latest aliyah business -- Nefesh b'Nefesh -- together with its Israeli government handlers, PAYS JEWS OUTRIGHT to move to Israel for five years. Stay five years, they state, and we'll pay you $25,000!
They could not make such an offer if it wasn't to their financial benefit to do so.
The ALIYAH INDUSTRY rents Israelis . . . wherever it can find them!
What's has been the AVERAGE ALIYAH IN YEARS of American and European olim during the past 40 years?
How much money have American olim LOST during their aliyah years?
Erev Rav, plain and simple, are controlling our precious Land, there and here.
It's a hard rain a'gonna fall.
47
Jun 15, 2009 at 12:37 PM PMO Says:
“ I worked in a high-stress, heavy-hours large law firm in the Midwest for five years. Only once did someone (a lower level partner) give me a hard time about Shabbos Yom Tov, but there were no actual repercussions for me taking the time off. Also, I wore a kippah at work and in court without any problems. I doubt that my experience is any different than attorneys in New York. We also have many frum attorneys and other professionals who shomer shabbos in my Midwestern city.
My wife works for the local public schools and has never had a problem with taking off for Shabbos or Yom Tov. ”
This is very much like my experience as well (although I'm not a lawyer).
People make excuses to stay in NY. Most of it is FEAR more than anything else. The majority of my family (and my wife's family) is still in NY. It is all they know. You have to be willing to try something new, to see the benefits of a small community where everyone works hard at building and supporting a community. When one hard working family does not have enough to make the tuition payments, someone (or a group) steps up and fills in the gap. Nobody knows who the family in need is. It just gets done. We take care of our own.
Also, many people have chosen to live their life on food stamps, handouts and welfare. These programs are not so abundant in most of the country. Here in FL, you cannot live on those programs, you HAVE to work to have any kind of life. Many will reject a move just for that reason.
I'll admit that we were afraid when we moved that it would not be everything we hoped for. Luckily, it was everything we hoped for and more! A cost of living that is manageable by just about anyone with common sense, beautiful weather, and a community of people all working for the same thing... maintaining a solid, frum community. So I have to drive 15 minutes to the supermarket with the best kosher selection... with no traffic and ample parking, it is all worth it. The cost of EVERYTHING (except maybe kosher beef) is FAR less expensive. Our WalMart supermarkets sell thousands of house-brand items that are OU/OK/Kof-K, etc. that are HALF the price of other supermarkets.
Don't let fear of the unknown keep you in a city that offers hard working people NOTHING but misery. Get out while you can!
48
Jun 15, 2009 at 12:03 PM PMO Says:
“ In most city's the real estate tax is much higher based on assessment than in NYC. You can save by living in a $200,000 house ( which buys a lot of house out there) but taxes are higher than we pay here on our $800,000 houses. Almost everything else except kosher food is less. I've been there - I know. ”
I live in a 2800 sq ft. house in south FL. My property taxes are < $3000/year. We have no state income taxes either. Don't be naive... NY is a socialist state that takes FAR more money from your pocket than another other (except CA)
49
Jun 15, 2009 at 02:32 PM Anonymous Says:
“ From the article; "We're not looking for a hundred families," she said. "We're looking for 10. Ten would be a dream come true."
How long does a kosher market stay in business with that size customer base? The one we had in FLA was expensive and limited. the fresh meat was of questionable certification and there was o place else to go? You going to drive 5 hours once a month to stock our freezer?
”
We actually have 3 kosher markets. One is a small Makolet type of market with a Shwarma & Deli counter. The second is part of a large supermarket chain, just like the "Jewish Experience" section of Shoprite (the chain is part of SuperValu, which owns a number of Albertson's & Jewel-Osco's) which carries fresh, packaged kosher meat (Solomon's). The third is actually the kosher food distributor for the region - who has a retail section and is constantly stocked with Kosher meat from reliable sources. We also have a BJ's which carries Empire Chicken. There is hardly a family that has to drive 5 hours to get an order of meat!
50
Jun 15, 2009 at 03:01 PM Why, why, why? Says:
Why does this have to be a NY vs the small town argument?
I think the idea of the fair was to show NYers that there are options. No one (I think) is saying that Jews should not live in NY or that NY is a bad place. But it is not for everyone. If there is someone who lives here and decides that they would rather be in a smaller community, where everyone knows eachother, they can afford housing, maybe be mashpia a little etc... and they are willing to give up fresh pizza for that, kol hakavod. I don't hear them saying that we should all move to Virginia or Texas or Iowa etc... but that new yorkers should be educated consumers and consider the options.
All these hotheaded defensive arguments make me think that NY is a little too intense for me.
51
Jun 15, 2009 at 02:58 PM seen it all Says:
moving to suburbia, houston, denver, etc. may work for a mid-aged couple with grown kids. With little kids, you might save a few bucks on housing, taxes, etc. when your kids reach HS age, BM, seminary, your'e going to pay the same as the NY's with additional travel expenses.
Also, living in a town without a kosher pizza shop is very difficult for anyone with little kids. You're tired one evening, got a cold, and guess what? go make supper regardless.
52
Jun 15, 2009 at 02:52 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I live in Albany (one of the communities featured), and I highly recommend it for anyone who is looking. We are only 3 hrs from NYC, 2 hrs from Monsey, so it isn't like you are leaving your family to go 1/2 way across the country. The community is nice, and growing, and everyone is friendly. Email for more info. ”
I would love to hear more about Albany. Please contact me at your convenience. Thanx!
53
Jun 15, 2009 at 03:15 PM Norfolk comments Says:
“ From the article; "We're not looking for a hundred families," she said. "We're looking for 10. Ten would be a dream come true."
How long does a kosher market stay in business with that size customer base? The one we had in FLA was expensive and limited. the fresh meat was of questionable certification and there was o place else to go? You going to drive 5 hours once a month to stock our freezer?
”
When Amy Brooke said she was hoping for 10 families, She didn't mean ten total. She wants 10 new families. DUH!
There are 70 Shomer Shabbos families in Norfolk (Answer to #33) There are probably another 200 that eat only kosher meat. Our market is not the cheapest place but I have found it to be similar to some o f the upscale places in NY. Our meat is meal mart, and chicken is Empire or vineland.
There is one other place to buy groceries, it's a bulk place and is cheaper cuz we buy from the distributor.
We have a small Israeli restaurant that sells israeli foods and kosher meat.
And ya know what, I wouldn't trade my limited kosher options for a big impersonal community ever.
54
Jun 15, 2009 at 03:09 PM Anonymous Says:
"How long does a kosher market stay in business with that size customer base?"
Become a vegetarian, then you don't need a kosher market. Regular supermarkets have plenty of kosher dairy or pareve items.
55
Jun 15, 2009 at 04:34 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Anonymous #18 (very appropriate number for your comment) said: "That is the only place they should be recruiting for, Yesha and the rest of Israel. If you aren't ready to make aliyah, stay in NY where your kids have some chance of growing up Jewish."
Kol HaKavod. Your's is the only comment which demonstrates the level of emunah that all golus Jews should have today, in this exciting time before the final geula. This is NOT the time to be "emerging" and "growing" in the goldena medina. This is NOT the time for "Torah" Jews to be increasing their stake in golus as if Klal Yisrael is commiting itself to remain in American for the long haul. Tather, it's a time to be preparing to say farewell to America with a hearty: "Thank you, it's been swell, but now it's time to go home."
The venerable Rav of Yerushalayim, Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld, zt"l, warned of becoming enmeshed in a golus mentality when he wrote: “Now I understand the words of musaf for yom tov: `Because of our sins we were exiled from our country and distanced from our Land’…This we have done voluntarily …Many times have I directed that the religious Jews in the diaspora be instructed that anyone who has the ability to come to Eretz Yisroel and doesn’t, will have to account for his failure in Ha’Olam Haba.” (Ha’ish Al Hachoma, vol. II, p. 149).
The leadership of American Orthodoxy all across the spectrum should be initiating an all out effort to “emerge” and “grow” scores of new communities in Eretz Yisrael (and not, r"l, in golus). As per Rav Yosef Chaim, I hope the Ribbono Shel Olam forgives us this monumental failure should we not do so. ”
so where to you live?
56
Jun 15, 2009 at 04:29 PM Anonymous Says:
Teens at risk are very rare in Small town USA. It is a wholesome environment and believe it or not they are more protected from the perils of the outside world. People still have derech Eretz . When my Grandchildren (from out of town) went to Camp in the mountains they learned a lot of things (not good) they never knew about
57
Jun 15, 2009 at 05:02 PM Former BP'er Says:
“ If a frumme yid has no choice but has to leave NY because he cannot find a parnassah or has some other urgent need than maybe its ok. However, there are unique benefits to live in a large yiddeshe community with many choices of shuls, mikvahs, yiddeshe entertainment etc. You cannot find this kind of life in some of these small cities no matter how beautiful they may be. ”
You speak like a stuck up NY'er who knows nothing other than the borders of NY. There is a VERY large yiddishe population out there including those yiddin in cities like Cleveland, Philly, Pittsburgh, Scranton, Detroit, Chicago, Denver, Seattle, LA, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, St Louis, Indianapolis, Columbus, Atlanta, Miami etc.
Just because chasidim dont know of anything other than BP, Willy, or where their Rebbe is doesnt mean its not out there.
58
Jun 15, 2009 at 05:10 PM Former BP'er Says:
“ "How long does a kosher market stay in business with that size customer base?"
Become a vegetarian, then you don't need a kosher market. Regular supermarkets have plenty of kosher dairy or pareve items. ”
what will you do when you have to bring a korbon which requires you to eat from it?
"Sorry G-d, I'm a veggie" wont work!
59
Jun 15, 2009 at 07:51 PM Shua Says:
“ so where to you live? ”
In response to my ardent pleas for considering aliyah as the most important option for our generation (in contrast to the one-upmanship being displayed here as to who's golus-community is more ideal for Jews than another, r"l), Anonymous asked: “ so where do you live? ”
Answer: I'm on the waiting list with Nefesh B'Nefesh, and I'm mispallel every day that Hashem allows me soon to return home to our Eretz HaKodesh.
Please G-d, all of the communities being touted here should soon be shrinking until they disappear, bringing the golus to a long awaited end. For 2000 years we have longed for an prayed for the geula. Sadly, it seems to me that many commenters in this thread exclude themselves from this prayer. As at the time of Yetzias Mitzrayim, it is possible that as much as 80% of Klal Yisrael will stay behind when the geula comes...clinging desperately to their exile in the goldena medina. Gezunter Hait to you all.
60
Jun 15, 2009 at 08:49 PM HudyMac Says:
“ ive been to norflok for shabbos more than once. theres no 100 families there,not by a long shot.not frum ones anyways. ”
Actually there are thousands of Jewish families in our area. Norfolk borders Virginia Beach, Hampton, Newport News, Portsmouth, Chesapeake, and Suffolk.
Our small Norfolk Orthodox community has at least 100 families. Some of them aren't frum as you so aptly stated, but a lot of them ARE frum.
This community is vibrant and under the spiritual leadership of a fantastic and dynamic Rav, Chaim Silver.
We are growing, and our yiddishkiete is strong and beautiful. Our open invitation is to all of you who are considering moving. Come for Shabbos we'd love to have you.
61
Jun 16, 2009 at 04:24 AM mom Says:
I hear nothing about schooling! To me that comes before all.
62
Jun 15, 2009 at 11:08 PM Small Town Person Says:
“ Teens at risk are very rare in Small town USA. It is a wholesome environment and believe it or not they are more protected from the perils of the outside world. People still have derech Eretz . When my Grandchildren (from out of town) went to Camp in the mountains they learned a lot of things (not good) they never knew about ”
You are so incorrect! Its the same problems but in smaller amounts.
63
Jun 16, 2009 at 06:35 AM Bubbe Says:
“ I hear nothing about schooling! To me that comes before all. ”
Our Norfolk Community has a Torah Mesorah school for Pre-K3 - 8th grade. We have a Yeshiva grades 9 - 12 that has been established for 8 years. We also have a girls high school for 9 - 12. Our Menaheles, Rabbaim and secular teachers are all outstanding.
A lot of information can be found on our website:http://www.bnaiisrael.org/
64
Jun 16, 2009 at 07:44 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Aliyah is a business, plain and simple.
I made aliyah during the days of the AACI. They did NOTHING to help me. Nothing.
The Sochnut actually went out of its way to NOT help me. Of course, the Israeli bureaucracy -- Misrad HaKlita, Misrad HaPanim -- also were unhelpful, particularly because I came from America. (American olim know what I mean by this.)
The gig is this: Get Western olim in, get their money for awhile, get army service, taxes, whatever we can from them, give them little resources, and let them leave if they want. In fact, today the latest aliyah business -- Nefesh b'Nefesh -- together with its Israeli government handlers, PAYS JEWS OUTRIGHT to move to Israel for five years. Stay five years, they state, and we'll pay you $25,000!
They could not make such an offer if it wasn't to their financial benefit to do so.
The ALIYAH INDUSTRY rents Israelis . . . wherever it can find them!
What's has been the AVERAGE ALIYAH IN YEARS of American and European olim during the past 40 years?
How much money have American olim LOST during their aliyah years?
Erev Rav, plain and simple, are controlling our precious Land, there and here.
It's a hard rain a'gonna fall. ”
#28 said: "The aliyah industry talks a big game (and they get people like you to talk a big game too) but do almost NOTHING to help non-Hebrew-speaking Jews come and build a life that lasts there. In and out."
#46 said: "The gig is this: Get Western olim in, get their money for a while, get army service, taxes, whatever we can from them, give them little resources, and let them leave if they want."
Both of your comments are apropos this week's parsha, Sh'lach, since you both mirror the mindset of the meraglim who, if you recall, brought disaster to Klal Yisrael by speaking lashon ha'ra against Eretz Yisrael and Yehoshua and Calev, who encourage the people to "go up and inhabit the land."
Because of the chait of the mergalim and their negative influence on the Am, geulas Mitzrayim was put off for 40 years and Klal Yisrael was condemned to wander in the midbar. As you two echo the voices of the meraglim, the result will only bring about the continued golus-America to those who listen to your negativity (chas v'shalom).
Chazal say that Eretz Yisrael can only be gained through effort and struggle... not handed over on a silver platter as you two expect. Anyway, I'm glad that you do NOT speak for the THOUSANDS of Olim who have chosen to remain in Eretz Yisrael Ha'Kodesh. They are the true Calevs and Yehoshuas of our generation. I am saddened that you do not mirror their emunah and bitachon, and instead fled back to golus.
65
Jun 16, 2009 at 07:22 AM Anonymous Says:
“ In response to my ardent pleas for considering aliyah as the most important option for our generation (in contrast to the one-upmanship being displayed here as to who's golus-community is more ideal for Jews than another, r"l), Anonymous asked: “ so where do you live? ”
Answer: I'm on the waiting list with Nefesh B'Nefesh, and I'm mispallel every day that Hashem allows me soon to return home to our Eretz HaKodesh.
Please G-d, all of the communities being touted here should soon be shrinking until they disappear, bringing the golus to a long awaited end. For 2000 years we have longed for an prayed for the geula. Sadly, it seems to me that many commenters in this thread exclude themselves from this prayer. As at the time of Yetzias Mitzrayim, it is possible that as much as 80% of Klal Yisrael will stay behind when the geula comes...clinging desperately to their exile in the goldena medina. Gezunter Hait to you all. ”
"Please G-d, all of the communities being touted here should soon be shrinking until they disappear, bringing the golus to a long awaited end."
How will shrinking a community help bring Moshiach? You've lost me there. Also, I'm sorry to break it to you, but by you moving to E"Y is not doing anything to bring Moshiach closer. All these wonderful people in communities around the USA can help bring Moshiach closer by increasing in Torah and Mitzvos.
66
Jun 16, 2009 at 08:36 AM Shua Says:
“ "Please G-d, all of the communities being touted here should soon be shrinking until they disappear, bringing the golus to a long awaited end."
How will shrinking a community help bring Moshiach? You've lost me there. Also, I'm sorry to break it to you, but by you moving to E"Y is not doing anything to bring Moshiach closer. All these wonderful people in communities around the USA can help bring Moshiach closer by increasing in Torah and Mitzvos. ”
Anonymous (#65) said: "How will shrinking a community help bring Moshiach? You've lost me there. Also, I'm sorry to break it to you, but by you moving to E"Y is not doing anything to bring Moshiach closer."
Good question and comment. All of the gedolim who have spoken on the issue of the need for religious aliya from the west -- Rav Kook, Rav Sonnenfeld, the Chazon Ish, the Chafetz Chaim, among many others -- make it implicitly clear that by undertaking the mitzvah of "yishuv ha'aretz" we are indicating to the Ribbono Shel Olam that we REALLY DO WANT THE GEULA, and that we are not content to stay in golus when we DO NOT HAVE TO. Remember Rav Yosef Chaim's warning that diaspora Jews remain in golus "VOLUNTARILY" (i.e. we CHOOSE to do so) and that this is a great "FAILURE" of our generation.
In other words, it is as if the Ribbono Shel Olam has said to us: "You pray for the geula 3 times a day...nu...show me that you REALLY want it. What Am Yisrael has dreamed of for 2000 years I am handing over to you on a silver platter. Leave your comfortable golus, go back home, and prove to Me that you REALLY want the golus to come to an end. Then I will know that you are worthy of Moshiach and I will send him to you."
Sound reasonable?
The belief that the geula will commence only AFTER Moshiach is not altogether supported by the Mesorah (I am referring to the exception of the minority shitah of the Satmar Rebbe, zt"l, which Rav Shach, zt"l, said was difficult to understand). Remember, the German Jews of the 19th and early 20th centuries declared Germany to be the new Gan Eden, Berlin the new Jerusalem. This belief brought disaster. Question: aren't many so-called Torah Jews in America saying the exact same thing...by their obvious commitment to a "growing" stake in the American golu? Think about it carefully!
67
Jun 16, 2009 at 10:36 PM Anonymous Says:
“ This quote was funny:
Avi Burstein, 25, a mental-health therapist who lives in Riverdale, in the Bronx, said: "We're looking to get out of New York. I've been here for 25 years, and I need to slow down a little." He and his wife, Adena, 26, an occupational therapist, see Denver as a possibility, but not Des Moines.
Look at how old her is! I guess he hates NY. ”
Maybe he is just a country boy at heart and wants to live a quiet life like people used to live up in the mountains and woods...I respect that.