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Israel - Lawmakers Claim Rabbis Remarks at Immigrant Converts Were Racist |
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Israel - At a conference this week, rabbis employed by the state's Chief Rabbinate hurled insults at immigrants seeking to convert, calling them "cheaters" motivated solely by self-interest. Now the political system is responding furiously, with MKs demanding public apologies and/or dismissals and even threatening legal action.
"The Chief Rabbinate is marred by racism and deep hatred for the immigrant community," said MK Marina Solodkin (Kadima), who wrote to Religious Services Minister Yaakov Margi (Shas) to demand that the rabbis apologize and threatened legal action if they did not.
Yisrael Beiteinu termed the rabbis' remarks "wild, hallucinatory and utterly baseless," while MK Uri Orbach (Habayit Hayehudi) demanded that the offending rabbis be fired.
The storm erupted over remarks made at an international conference of ultra-Orthodox rabbis in Jerusalem, where numerous speakers attacked both state-run conversion programs and the people they convert. The assault was led by Rabbi Avraham Sherman, head of the Chief Rabbinate's Rabbinical Court of Appeals, who leaped to fame last year when he invalidated all conversions ever performed by a special state-run conversion court.
"There is no logic to telling tens of thousands of non-Jews who grew up on heresy, hatred of religion, liberalism, communism and socialism that suddenly they can undergo a revolution deep in their souls," he told the three-day conference, referring mainly to non-Jewish immigrants from the former Soviet Union.
Ashdod's chief rabbi, Yosef Sheinin, said immigrants who sought to convert "should be assumed to be cheaters."
Tzohar, an organization of religious Zionist rabbis, also condemned the remarks, saying it was particularly upset that Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger praised Sherman and expressed support for his views.
"Instead of supporting the efforts of conversion court judges who operate under the Chief Rabbinate's auspices, the chief rabbi caved in to a group of extremist ultra-Orthodox hacks who have made it their goal to sabotage conversion," the group said in a statement.
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Read Comments (12) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 18, 2009 at 08:07 PM Anonymous Says:
Why do Israelis call every conflict racism. Communists used to call every conflict a class struggle.
If the immigrant converts were a different race from Jews "racism" would apply, BUT THEY ARE NOT!!!!!!
I suppose the American Civil war fought by Americans of largely British and Irish descent was racism by Israeli definition.
Or the 30 years war between catholic and protestant Germans was racism.
The Franco-Prussian war nust have been about racism.
Becoming a de-Judaised "normal" nation " doesn't mean copying another nations rhetoric!
2
Jun 18, 2009 at 09:15 PM The r word Says:
“ Why do Israelis call every conflict racism. Communists used to call every conflict a class struggle.
If the immigrant converts were a different race from Jews "racism" would apply, BUT THEY ARE NOT!!!!!!
I suppose the American Civil war fought by Americans of largely British and Irish descent was racism by Israeli definition.
Or the 30 years war between catholic and protestant Germans was racism.
The Franco-Prussian war nust have been about racism.
Becoming a de-Judaised "normal" nation " doesn't mean copying another nations rhetoric!
”
Unfortunately in todays universe if you don't agree with something or someone the r word is very convient. Otherwise they seek out his tax return or search for other dirty trrick. No one seems to take responsiblity or honor other peoples lifestyle anymore. Hashem should spare us and send Mossiach quickly.
3
Jun 18, 2009 at 08:28 PM Conversion Says:
Was this at the recent EJF convention in Israel, where leading gedolei Israel attended?
4
Jun 18, 2009 at 10:42 PM Anonymous Says:
Thank Gd Israel has leaders like Rav Sherman SHLITA.... He understand we want QUALITY not QUANTITY! We are under an age of assimilation, often people join Israel for "cultural" reasons NOT because they want to serve HKBH
5
Jun 18, 2009 at 10:40 PM Rippin Pinchas Says:
If a goy wants to convert, there is a process which he must go through. Included in that process is pushing him off. If the goy perseveres then he can become a ger.
However, the political system should not control who becomes a ger. If you look at the situation in America, especially in Midwest and west coast out of town communities, the conversion situation is a mess. Israel does not need that. Converting non-Jewish Russians and Ethopians en mass is not a good idea. Don't let Israel become another out of town American community where half of the people in the community has questionable conversions.
6
Jun 19, 2009 at 02:26 AM PulpitRabbi Says:
“ If a goy wants to convert, there is a process which he must go through. Included in that process is pushing him off. If the goy perseveres then he can become a ger.
However, the political system should not control who becomes a ger. If you look at the situation in America, especially in Midwest and west coast out of town communities, the conversion situation is a mess. Israel does not need that. Converting non-Jewish Russians and Ethopians en mass is not a good idea. Don't let Israel become another out of town American community where half of the people in the community has questionable conversions. ”
Actually, the situation in America's small communities is often better than in Israel, because in small communities, those who convert generally do become part of the Orthodox community, even as we can quibble about the actual level of observance. however, those who convert is Israel often do so because they discovered that they cannot marry otherwise. That is really leshem dovor acher.
Even so, there are also countless geirim leshem shomayim in both countries. We must be very vigilant, on the one hand, to prevent abuse (I once discovered that a guy with stellar recommendations was in fact a missionary. He tried every excuse in the book to explain why he only fell in with them, and I simply explained to him that while that may be the case, he should really turn to people who are experts on missionaries and former missionaries, for they only could give him teh go ahead: Yad leAchim. Of course, I never heard from him again). However, on the other hand, we must also remember the biblical injunctions of ואהבתם את הגר and לא תונו אותו. Being machmir does not always lead to non recognition.
7
Jun 18, 2009 at 07:51 PM Anonymous Says:
Every other day, VIN reports another story about these rabbonim acting without any degree of common sense or rachmonis for non-frumme yiddin and there will be an immediate chorus of postings saying its OK because they are only telling the truth a pi halacha. Guess what, its NOT ok and such dreche from their mouths is pure racism and not al pi halacha. They could have just as easily said that to be megayer under halacha there had to show they were serious about accepting torah and mitzvot. Instead, the engage in mindless attacks that devalue their message. Why cannot they use common sense??
8
Jun 19, 2009 at 09:39 AM Anonymous Says:
Wouldn't a lot of these problems go away if Israel instituted civil marriage and divested the orthodox rabbinate of control over who could marry who even when the couple are not orthodox and are not asking for an orthodox wedding?
9
Jun 19, 2009 at 09:22 AM David Says:
Sherman, like so many of his ilk, is so convinced that everything that comes out of his mouth is a pearl of wisdom from Sinai, that he doesn't bother to filter it for content or even sanity.
10
Jun 19, 2009 at 04:18 PM Rippin Pinchas Says:
“ Actually, the situation in America's small communities is often better than in Israel, because in small communities, those who convert generally do become part of the Orthodox community, even as we can quibble about the actual level of observance. however, those who convert is Israel often do so because they discovered that they cannot marry otherwise. That is really leshem dovor acher.
Even so, there are also countless geirim leshem shomayim in both countries. We must be very vigilant, on the one hand, to prevent abuse (I once discovered that a guy with stellar recommendations was in fact a missionary. He tried every excuse in the book to explain why he only fell in with them, and I simply explained to him that while that may be the case, he should really turn to people who are experts on missionaries and former missionaries, for they only could give him teh go ahead: Yad leAchim. Of course, I never heard from him again). However, on the other hand, we must also remember the biblical injunctions of ואהבתם את הגר and לא תונו אותו. Being machmir does not always lead to non recognition. ”
"those who convert generally do become part of the Orthodox community, even as we can quibble about the actual level of observance"
That is exactly the problem with these small out of town communities. So what that he joined a shul? If he has problematic geyrus then there is a problem. These people are generally not shipped off to yeshiva/seminary and that creates the potential for the issues we have today.
There are a number of sincere, ehrliche geirim and those people deserve our praise. However, being part of a shul does not negate the other issues. Israel has enough issues without this problem.
11
Jun 21, 2009 at 06:30 AM Shalom Says:
“ Why do Israelis call every conflict racism. Communists used to call every conflict a class struggle.
If the immigrant converts were a different race from Jews "racism" would apply, BUT THEY ARE NOT!!!!!!
I suppose the American Civil war fought by Americans of largely British and Irish descent was racism by Israeli definition.
Or the 30 years war between catholic and protestant Germans was racism.
The Franco-Prussian war nust have been about racism.
Becoming a de-Judaised "normal" nation " doesn't mean copying another nations rhetoric!
”
If you object to the term 'racism'--perhaps you'll approve of the term 'sinat chinam', closed mindedness, mean-spirit, or lack of menchlichkeit. Deal with the real issue-- whether or not many of those who want to convert are insincere, there's no reason to speak that way about hundreds of thousands of people. I'm sure that we all have met both gerim and ba'alei tshuva who were brought up with no knowledge of G-d. If they want to copy the American Syrian community and reject all gerim, at least be honest and say it--even if it's hypocritical to read megillat Ruth if you do so.
12
Jun 21, 2009 at 09:12 PM jimmy37 Says:
After reading the various posts both reasoned and ignorant, I have to agree that Israel needs civil marriage. The state needs to get out of the religious marriage business. Israel already recognizes valid civil marriages outside the country, which many Israelis take advantage of. It would make that much more sense to be able to control the process within the country. To be sure, people that find the process onerous or intrusive will continue to go out of the country to get married. Why is the religious community forcing a political solution to a religious problem by forcing people to convert for convenience, and then winking at them in the process?