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Jerusalem - Modest Swim Suits With 'Hechsher' Of Israeli Rabbis |
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While she ordinarily wears fashionable skirts that fall below the knee and blouses that extend to her wrists, Devora, 31, was unable to find a swimsuit consistent with her Orthodox lifestyle.
Her standards of religious modesty extend not only to her wardrobe but also to sharing her full name, lest it draw attention to her and her family.
When the dress she typically wore over her bathing suit got wet, "it became heavy, unwieldy, clingy and transparent. I felt incredibly self-conscious, even while swimming during women-only hours," she said of the segregated swimming that's available at some Israeli pools and beaches.
A year ago, Devora heard about a modest-swimwear line called Sea Secret 
. Designed in Israel by two French-born Orthodox Jews in consultation with a respected rabbi, the company's below-the-arm, below-the-knee swim-dresses adhere to the strict Orthodox Jewish dress code.
"I bought a swim-dress just before going on vacation last year and found it elegant, comfortable and modest," she said. "Wearing it, I felt like a role model for my young daughter and comfortable around my young son. Other women saw it and asked where I'd purchased it. I loved it so much I ended up selling the company's swimwear."
Modest-minded women around the world are now enjoying a similar sense of new-found freedom, thanks to the recent emergence of several lines of modest swimwear in the U.S., the Middle East, Asia and Australia.
Although statistics on this niche market are hard to come by, online testimonials — with actual photos of satisfied customers in their swimsuits — and chat-room discussions and blog posts lend credence to manufacturers' claims that the phenomenon is growing.
Even more, women can now be seen actually wearing the suits on local beaches.
Demand for cover-up beachwear has reached the point that even Speedo, the British bathing suit giant, sells a long-sleeved, long-legged swimsuit with a matching head-neck covering for $110 on its British website.
With few exceptions, conservative swimwear has been conceived by religious women whose strict interpretation of Judaism, Islam or Christianity forbids them from baring significant parts of their body to even close family members.
Daniella Teutsch, co-owner of Jerusalem-based HydroChic , which offers modest and sun-protective swimwear lines as well as sportswear, said her 2-year-old company has already doubled sales in the past year, "and last year we did nicely."
Teutsch, a U.S. native, said most of HydroChic's religious customers are modern Orthodox Jews, along with a healthy sprinkling of Christians, from English-speaking countries.
"They're used to finding solutions so that they can do water activities with their families. They're also health conscious and appreciate the sun protection and fast-drying material, but most of all they want something comfortable and safe. They're seeking an alternative to wet T-shirts."
HydroChic's modest swimwear line includes both long shorts and long skirts, which means women "seeking total coverage, like devout Muslims and ultra-Orthodox Jews, won't buy from us," Teutsch said.
The two French-born women behind Sea Secret, Yardena G. and Esther, operate out of small warehouse in an Orthodox neighborhood here. As is often the case in ultra-Orthodox circles, the designers said it would be improper to be photographed or have their last names publicized.
When they wanted to ensure that their designs were conformed to Jewish law, they met with a prominent rabbi's wife, not the rabbi himself. "We told the rabbi's wife our idea, she brought it to her husband, and he said it was kosher," Yardena said.
Because many fervently Orthodox women shun bright colors, Sea Secret's swim-dresses and turbans are available in muted shades with just a strip of bright pink or turquoise at the edges. Mannequins, not actual women, model the swimwear on the company's website.
The women said their decision to design modest swimwear rather than, say, a line of handbags, came from their desire to help others fulfill their religious obligations.
"The Torah commands us to dress modestly and to act modestly, and our contribution has been to show religious women that it's possible to be both elegant and religiously observant," Yardena said. "Our swimsuits are fashionable, but their reason for being is to bring more holiness to the world."
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Read Comments (61) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 19, 2009 at 11:42 AM Anonymous Says:
Kol hakovod to these eherleche yidden who are willing to commit the time and energy that allow us to enjoy the beach without any concern for tzinus issues. While some chassideshe vomen may still not want to "indulge", having this option is a real gift especially for the summer, Knowing that these bathing suits have the "approval" of some highly regarded rabbonim (plus our local posek from shul) eliminates any basis for concerns for most vomen in moderneshe families.
2
Jun 19, 2009 at 11:35 AM export opportunity Says:
I'm sure it will sell well in Iran & Afghanistan.
3
Jun 19, 2009 at 11:32 AM rivka Says:
These people are "twisted" with their hashkafos. What does dressing outside tziyus have to do with a public bath house. I understand that she may feel uncomfortable, which is very dangerous according to most psycologists, but don't make a bathing suit into something that it was not meant to be. What they are doing now is allowing men and women to swim together because they are "tzniyus". Don't think this hasn't crossed people's minds yet.
4
Jun 19, 2009 at 11:10 AM Anonymous Says:
there will be plenty of lifeguards who will unfortanitly have to work harder because of these swimdresses. these swim dresses are a danger in the pool to those who wear them. there are plenty of lifeguards who have a pool policy of tee shirts in the pool that cannot be loose fitting and lower then the hips for a healthy reason. sorry this new company i hope you won't do damage to people wearing your merchandise in the pool. besides if you are worried about modesty at the beach you do not belong there!
5
Jun 19, 2009 at 11:08 AM Anonymous Says:
Tznius is required by only woman beaches too?
6
Jun 19, 2009 at 11:57 AM FVNMS Says:
“ I'm sure it will sell well in Iran & Afghanistan. ”
And so will Coke and Pepsi. What are you trying to say?
7
Jun 19, 2009 at 11:53 AM obamanation Says:
givaltig!! now we can swim together
8
Jun 19, 2009 at 12:00 PM Anonymous Says:
“ These people are "twisted" with their hashkafos. What does dressing outside tziyus have to do with a public bath house. I understand that she may feel uncomfortable, which is very dangerous according to most psycologists, but don't make a bathing suit into something that it was not meant to be. What they are doing now is allowing men and women to swim together because they are "tzniyus". Don't think this hasn't crossed people's minds yet. ”
This makes "mixed" swimming much less of an issue for heimeshe men and women since there is nothing to "look at".
9
Jun 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM when will it end? Says:
this whole idea is sick and absurd. Doesnt the jewish community have any real issues to worry about????? i am so tired of all these absurd chumrahs which are so far removed from anything G-d ever said or intended.
10
Jun 19, 2009 at 12:04 PM Anonymous Says:
How does a Rov give a hechsher on a woman's swimsuit? Does he examine it?
11
Jun 19, 2009 at 12:13 PM FVNMS Says:
You people are crazy. You know that? I don't know why I checked out the hydro chic website with my wife (me and my big mouth) but there is nothing tzniusdig about this attire. I highly doubt your grandmother would have worn this stuff in public.
12
Jun 19, 2009 at 12:23 PM Shainy Says:
IMHO, wearing such a swimdress has nothing to do with "modesty", it has to do with shame.
In a swimming area, a frum woman can wear a bathing suit. Wearing something exceptionally revealing may be considered offensive, or a mark of insecurity with oneself, but covering up entirely has do with a warped sense of "tznius" that some women have. A Jewish woman is beautiful, and in the right time and place, she should feel comfortable with herself...
13
Jun 19, 2009 at 12:19 PM Anonymous Says:
“ How does a Rov give a hechsher on a woman's swimsuit? Does he examine it? ”
The article says that some great rebbe provided the hechsher but for obvious reasons, did not wish to have his hame or posek published. Clearly, to provide such an approval he would have very carefully examine the models wearing the suit to be certain they did not give rise to lustful thoughts or other tzinus concerns.
14
Jun 19, 2009 at 01:06 PM Anonymous Says:
So couture, beautiful, stylish, just don't get too close to the pumps in the pool.
15
Jun 19, 2009 at 01:03 PM Shulamit Says:
what does not giving a full name have to do with tzniut? I won't give my full name here because I don't want some of the crazy people who post on this site to contact me outside of this forum. These ladies are doing people a service (albeit a strange one as I find the return of the turn-of-the-last-century "swimming costumes" to be): you'd think they would want publicity to market their product.
16
Jun 19, 2009 at 12:41 PM ml Says:
“ this whole idea is sick and absurd. Doesnt the jewish community have any real issues to worry about????? i am so tired of all these absurd chumrahs which are so far removed from anything G-d ever said or intended. ”
I agree 100%. you can probaly fill a book on chumras that is not actual halacha.
17
Jun 19, 2009 at 12:33 PM Anonymous Says:
“ givaltig!! now we can swim together ”
You may think its funny, but now that the entire family can go sit at the beach togehter on shabbos afternoon rather than having to go to separate locations makes it a lot easier for many yiddeshe families to spend time together. With many children, the logistics of having to send the boys and men to one beach and the girsl to another made life very difficult. For torah observant jews, this is a real plus.
18
Jun 19, 2009 at 01:47 PM midwest Says:
“ You may think its funny, but now that the entire family can go sit at the beach togehter on shabbos afternoon rather than having to go to separate locations makes it a lot easier for many yiddeshe families to spend time together. With many children, the logistics of having to send the boys and men to one beach and the girsl to another made life very difficult. For torah observant jews, this is a real plus. ”
I assume you are talking about a private beach? Because the smallest issue is the women's own bathing suit. If you are bringing your husband and boys...they will be looking at other beach goers with skimpy suits!
19
Jun 19, 2009 at 01:44 PM Anonymous Says:
where do u apply to watch the women model and decide if its kosher
20
Jun 19, 2009 at 01:42 PM midwest Says:
It is true that long clothing can be dangerous. Especially getting caught under water with loose clothing. I have an idea..why not just swim amoungst women and men swim with men? I know there are some women that cover their hair at all women's pool. I never understood that. Nor did i understand that they wore their snood with a bathing suit on and no t-shirt!
21
Jun 19, 2009 at 01:30 PM izzy Says:
is this news from the Saudis. Or just radical Jews
22
Jun 19, 2009 at 02:44 PM lm Says:
No matter where you are, especially under the sky, you should not be exposed, for Hashem hates immorality,
These manufacturers of such garments have a Schus and deserve a lot credit.
I sympathize all these people who get upset with such " Chimrus", obviously they probably did not get the right Chinuch
The Torah states:
והתקדשתם והייתם קדושים
Holy You Should Be!
By wearing immodest clothing we distance the Shechina (Divine Presence) from us.
As the Torah states:
ולא יראה בן ערות דבר ושב מאחריך
Immodesty should not be seen amongst you!
Or Hashem will withdraw his presence from you!
When the Shechina departs, we are stripped of our protection ח''ו
Maybe this is why so many tzoros, illness, crushing poverty and unbearable tragedies, have befallen us.
In the words of the Holy Chofetz Chaim tzl in a famous letter:
“A huge fire has broken out in many places through the despicable styles which the power of uncleanliness has unleashed”……….
THIS IS WHY BLESSINGS AND PROSPERITY HAVE LEFT US…….
To a large degree this despicable style negates the statement of the Torah:
“Your camp should be holy and there should not be found therein erveh”
Tight-fitting, short, flashy clothing, low cut necklines, long extravagant sheitels, etc. are contrary to Tznius standards,
Besides being the cause of other people’s sins.
Let us wear clothes that are befitting for Jewish Daughters
This will cause the Shechina to reside in our midst. This will bring many blessings upon ourselves, and ultimately bring the Geulah Sheleima בב''א
בזכות נשים צדקניות אתידין להגאל! The key to our salvation is in your hands!
23
Jun 19, 2009 at 03:03 PM aaronie Says:
looks great with a matching veil
24
Jun 19, 2009 at 03:01 PM Z. N. Mishegoss Says:
Go to a place that sells wet suits for scuba divers and get the kind they sell for cold water....
25
Jun 19, 2009 at 02:32 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I assume you are talking about a private beach? Because the smallest issue is the women's own bathing suit. If you are bringing your husband and boys...they will be looking at other beach goers with skimpy suits! ”
Actually, everyone should relax and use some common sense before attacking this great diea. Rather than encouraging mixed swimming or saying that men will be looking at other women at the beach so this doesn't solve anything, why don'y you think of a situation where this can prove to be very useful...Like a family finding a pretty private spot on a beack or lake to swim and spend time together. So the issue of pritzus is minimized as much as possible if not alltogether avoided. However, in the event there is a man or two passing by, the women does not have to break the halachos of tznius by beeing seen (or dress like a shmatta at the beach), becasue as private of a place as you can find, it's still in public area. This is a great solution for this type of scenario.
26
Jun 19, 2009 at 02:24 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I assume you are talking about a private beach? Because the smallest issue is the women's own bathing suit. If you are bringing your husband and boys...they will be looking at other beach goers with skimpy suits! ”
I don't think the typical heimeshe family in Eretz Yisroel or Rockaway or wherever has access to a "private beach". Second, if my husband were to look at another woman the wrong way on the beach, he would have a lot more to fear from ME than from hashem.
Shabbos tov.
27
Jun 19, 2009 at 03:34 PM Rivky Says:
“ No matter where you are, especially under the sky, you should not be exposed, for Hashem hates immorality,
These manufacturers of such garments have a Schus and deserve a lot credit.
I sympathize all these people who get upset with such " Chimrus", obviously they probably did not get the right Chinuch
The Torah states:
והתקדשתם והייתם קדושים
Holy You Should Be!
By wearing immodest clothing we distance the Shechina (Divine Presence) from us.
As the Torah states:
ולא יראה בן ערות דבר ושב מאחריך
Immodesty should not be seen amongst you!
Or Hashem will withdraw his presence from you!
When the Shechina departs, we are stripped of our protection ח''ו
Maybe this is why so many tzoros, illness, crushing poverty and unbearable tragedies, have befallen us.
In the words of the Holy Chofetz Chaim tzl in a famous letter:
“A huge fire has broken out in many places through the despicable styles which the power of uncleanliness has unleashed”……….
THIS IS WHY BLESSINGS AND PROSPERITY HAVE LEFT US…….
To a large degree this despicable style negates the statement of the Torah:
“Your camp should be holy and there should not be found therein erveh”
Tight-fitting, short, flashy clothing, low cut necklines, long extravagant sheitels, etc. are contrary to Tznius standards,
Besides being the cause of other people’s sins.
Let us wear clothes that are befitting for Jewish Daughters
This will cause the Shechina to reside in our midst. This will bring many blessings upon ourselves, and ultimately bring the Geulah Sheleima בב''א
בזכות נשים צדקניות אתידין להגאל! The key to our salvation is in your hands!
”
It is people like you, who use the Torah for your own crazy ideas that are responsible for what is going on in the world today. I have gone swimming with the wives and mothers of countless roshei yeshiva. They did not wear bikinis or tankinis but normal bathing suits. They do not cover their hair when they go to sleep and have been zocheh to having children who are bnei torah. You obviously have been drilled with ideas of Kimchis and the type of person she was. You are not worthy to see a kohein gadol but think you can be the parent of one. The chofetz chaim did not have the mechitzos we have these days. they didnt even have pools. But, you surround yourself with the holy words as though they apply to you. I bet you are a mechanech or mechaneches that throws kids out of school for not living up to your standards. i would love to hear what the chofetz chaim thinks of YOU! Problem is, he doesn't speak lashon harah. Go back to your caves.
28
Jun 19, 2009 at 03:17 PM whatever Says:
1. These bathing suits are a hazard when swimming, there is a greater chance of drowning with all that fabric on the woman.
2. Her "comfortable" level has to do with self esteem, not tzniot.
3. This wont make it okay for both men and women to swim together. -wet clinging clothing on a woman's body is just as untzniot.
Solution?
work out, lose weight, get a self esteem, and you wont feel "uncomfortable" about wearing a bathing suit around other people.
p.s. making this story publicly available for men about women in bathing suits is tzniot, how exactly?
On a side point.
In response to "lm Says" - "Besides being the cause of other people’s sins."
Why don't these "inadvertent" sinners take responsibility for their actions, instead of always having to look elsewhere for blame. Grow Up!
29
Jun 19, 2009 at 03:58 PM Anonymous Says:
“ 1. These bathing suits are a hazard when swimming, there is a greater chance of drowning with all that fabric on the woman.
2. Her "comfortable" level has to do with self esteem, not tzniot.
3. This wont make it okay for both men and women to swim together. -wet clinging clothing on a woman's body is just as untzniot.
Solution?
work out, lose weight, get a self esteem, and you wont feel "uncomfortable" about wearing a bathing suit around other people.
p.s. making this story publicly available for men about women in bathing suits is tzniot, how exactly?
On a side point.
In response to "lm Says" - "Besides being the cause of other people’s sins."
Why don't these "inadvertent" sinners take responsibility for their actions, instead of always having to look elsewhere for blame. Grow Up! ”
I always wonder about men who are busy all day long how women should be dressed, please the worst thing for you is "thinking about women period" be nice to your wife. Buy her flowers she deserve it.
30
Jun 19, 2009 at 03:55 PM chava Says:
why can't we go In a 2 piece set bikini between our friends in a pool? men don't swim with us???
don't get it.. I guess they made a new rule book
31
Jun 19, 2009 at 04:21 PM Anonymous Says:
“ It is true that long clothing can be dangerous. Especially getting caught under water with loose clothing. I have an idea..why not just swim amoungst women and men swim with men? I know there are some women that cover their hair at all women's pool. I never understood that. Nor did i understand that they wore their snood with a bathing suit on and no t-shirt! ”
1- some hold that the strands of their hair should never be seen by the walls of their house etc. 2- maybe they have no hair and so they keep their head covered with a snood.
3- when jumping into a pool (as is commonly done in lieu of diving) while wearing a dress/robe or anything long below the mid-thighs, the bottom of the dress/robe often flies up over one's head as one is sinking downward and then stays up and keeps the swimmer from being able to rise above water level to get air. Furthermore, it can be tricky to maneuver with ones arms caught in a mess and dangerous if other swimmers don't notice the danger so they can help out or get assistance.
32
Jun 19, 2009 at 02:06 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You may think its funny, but now that the entire family can go sit at the beach togehter on shabbos afternoon rather than having to go to separate locations makes it a lot easier for many yiddeshe families to spend time together. With many children, the logistics of having to send the boys and men to one beach and the girsl to another made life very difficult. For torah observant jews, this is a real plus. ”
-why are you going to the beach on shabbos????
-even if you go to the beach why would you wear a bathing suit??? swimming if forbidden???
-there will anyways be other woman wearing regular bathing -therefore you cant go to the beach anyway????
please tell me where the "real plus" is????
33
Jun 19, 2009 at 01:58 PM Anonymous Says:
“ These people are "twisted" with their hashkafos. What does dressing outside tziyus have to do with a public bath house. I understand that she may feel uncomfortable, which is very dangerous according to most psycologists, but don't make a bathing suit into something that it was not meant to be. What they are doing now is allowing men and women to swim together because they are "tzniyus". Don't think this hasn't crossed people's minds yet. ”
exactly my thoughts.i can see it alredy "Tzinus swimming for men and women tonigt at......"
34
Jun 19, 2009 at 04:44 PM Anonymous Says:
“ why can't we go In a 2 piece set bikini between our friends in a pool? men don't swim with us???
don't get it.. I guess they made a new rule book ”
Actually, according to halacha, women can dress any way they want in front of other women. We do not pasken like the comment of the Zohar about the walls of your house not seeing our hair, as Rav Moshe clearly states in his responsa regarding women covering their hair. ot showing your hair I believe this article discusses the benefits of such a swimsuit when there is apotential of men seeing you.
35
Jun 19, 2009 at 04:52 PM Anonymous Says:
I wouldn't encourage my wife or daughters to buy these dresses but I also wouldn't discourage them either. Henoch lahem libnos yisroel - they know without a Brisker Kvetch and a Telzer Drai what is and what is not tzeni'us.
Frankly, the only thing I find disturbing is how many people here are disturbed by what someone else wants to do leshaim shomayim.
If you don't hold of it don't do it. So long as no one tries to impose this as a new standard for all of klal yisroel, who cares?
36
Jun 19, 2009 at 06:07 PM Boruch Hashem, a voice of sanity Says:
“ It is people like you, who use the Torah for your own crazy ideas that are responsible for what is going on in the world today. I have gone swimming with the wives and mothers of countless roshei yeshiva. They did not wear bikinis or tankinis but normal bathing suits. They do not cover their hair when they go to sleep and have been zocheh to having children who are bnei torah. You obviously have been drilled with ideas of Kimchis and the type of person she was. You are not worthy to see a kohein gadol but think you can be the parent of one. The chofetz chaim did not have the mechitzos we have these days. they didnt even have pools. But, you surround yourself with the holy words as though they apply to you. I bet you are a mechanech or mechaneches that throws kids out of school for not living up to your standards. i would love to hear what the chofetz chaim thinks of YOU! Problem is, he doesn't speak lashon harah. Go back to your caves. ”
Rivky, you are a voice of sanity. Keep it up!
37
Jun 20, 2009 at 05:39 PM anonymous says Says:
there is also this new company that is manufacturing body suits for the mikva
38
Jun 20, 2009 at 03:19 PM feh Says:
did anybody here ever read the song of songs? judaism is nor feminist nor phallocentric. jewish women are equal to men. even in the past if her husband would die, it was tradition for a lady to take over all his dealings. do you really think that the jewish religion itself requires jewish women to cover every inch? or not sing in front of men? most of us are ashkenazim and once upon a time the great rabbis looked at the christians, then each other, and said: "hmmm we can learn a few things..." so today my crazy cousin who mutes the TV or Radio or real life, when a lady begin singing is actually upholding a goyish tradition of keeping women firmly quiet in church and elsewhere. All this covering up is ridiculous too, because only ashkenazi women uphold it with such fervor. sephardic women today do not cover up every inch like the ashkenazi women do. immodesty is treating your body as a pin cushion or filling it like a toxins. hashem made beauty, especially feminine beauty for the world to see and appreciate. if everyone is made in the image of hashem, then why could we cover it up? beauty is just another one of hashems great creations.
39
Jun 20, 2009 at 01:40 PM Anonymous Says:
“ this whole idea is sick and absurd. Doesnt the jewish community have any real issues to worry about????? i am so tired of all these absurd chumrahs which are so far removed from anything G-d ever said or intended. ”
This is not a an absurd chumra. No one said that this was REQUIRED; it is a question of what people are comfortable with. If this is what they want to do, they are certainly entitled. You can't tell them "You must wear regular, revealing bathing suits". That having been said, if anyone is going to say that this is required by Halacha, then they are out of their mind. In addition, if this is going to let people think that now they can go swimming, this is going to be an instance of "hidur deasi lidei takala"; a seemingly harmless or even positive development that can end up making things MORE lenient.
40
Jun 20, 2009 at 10:54 PM Lifeguard Says:
I am a Red Cross certified lifeguard, and I can tell you that loose fitting swimsuits or clothes pose a danger of entrapment, as do hair decorations, and jewelry. I understand the need for modesty, but this particular approach increases risk to life. These swimsuits are not ideal for use in the water and could be dangerous.
41
Jun 20, 2009 at 09:15 PM tzoorba Says:
“ did anybody here ever read the song of songs? judaism is nor feminist nor phallocentric. jewish women are equal to men. even in the past if her husband would die, it was tradition for a lady to take over all his dealings. do you really think that the jewish religion itself requires jewish women to cover every inch? or not sing in front of men? most of us are ashkenazim and once upon a time the great rabbis looked at the christians, then each other, and said: "hmmm we can learn a few things..." so today my crazy cousin who mutes the TV or Radio or real life, when a lady begin singing is actually upholding a goyish tradition of keeping women firmly quiet in church and elsewhere. All this covering up is ridiculous too, because only ashkenazi women uphold it with such fervor. sephardic women today do not cover up every inch like the ashkenazi women do. immodesty is treating your body as a pin cushion or filling it like a toxins. hashem made beauty, especially feminine beauty for the world to see and appreciate. if everyone is made in the image of hashem, then why could we cover it up? beauty is just another one of hashems great creations.
”
Feh is the appropriate term for this ignorant tirade.
You obviously have no idea what the G-d and the Torah require.
Your fairy tale about the Rabbis copy the xtians is the product of a religion hostile fevered imagination.
You obviously have no concern for all the immorality and illicit relationships caused by an improper level of modesty.
Go learn some more about the meaning of life and what really matters and the beauty of Jewish modesty and then come back and retract these twisted words.
42
Jun 20, 2009 at 10:12 PM Chana Says:
Quote #38 All this covering up is ridiculous too, because only ashkenazi women uphold it with such fervor. sephardic women today do not cover up every inch like the ashkenazi women do. immodesty is treating your body as a pin cushion or filling it like a toxins. hashem made beauty, especially feminine beauty for the world to see and appreciate. if everyone is made in the image of hashem, then why could we cover it up? beauty is just another one of hashems great creations."
Hmmm, I think I should add some things to your post. Feminine beauty is something not to be covered up. In fact, lets flaunt what we got. Why cant I wear something that shows my beautiful perfect size 2 figure. The heck with tznius, that was given to the arabs, and narrow minded people.
I meant to be sarcastic. #38 and alot of others should read the basic halachas of tznius AND FOLLOW IT.
43
Jun 20, 2009 at 11:29 PM Anonymous Says:
Here in new york they have been selling such dresses known as "shvimkleider" - swimdress, and coolouts. The coolouts have a panty part attached so that the dress doesn't lift entirely when you jump into the water. However I always made sure that the length of the dress when lifted never covered my mouth. That in a way is safer than a t-shirt. As a t-shirt is a heavy piece of fabric that goes over your head when you jump into the water and it's hard to get it off your face. These should only be worn with a bathing suit - or at least undergarments, as it becomes quite revealing when wet.
44
Jun 21, 2009 at 12:20 AM Mindy Says:
I'm surprised this is even news. In many chasidishe bungalow colonies and camps the women already wear tzniusdig swimdresses and dont allow bathing suits in their pools.
45
Jun 21, 2009 at 03:02 AM you dont get 38 Says:
there is nothing wrong with modesty, absolutely a lady should have enough respect for her body not to wear a bikini to work. what i am saying is that people to take it to such extremes are missing the point. besides where does it actually say in the torah that a jewish woman needs to be covered head to toe at all times. i respect the fact that jewish women are innovative to learn new ways to work around it, i just dont think it should be interpreted to such an extent. xtians by the way created many of those laws, especially the one about keeping women silent.
46
Jun 21, 2009 at 02:13 AM Milhouse Says:
“ did anybody here ever read the song of songs? judaism is nor feminist nor phallocentric. jewish women are equal to men. even in the past if her husband would die, it was tradition for a lady to take over all his dealings. do you really think that the jewish religion itself requires jewish women to cover every inch? or not sing in front of men? most of us are ashkenazim and once upon a time the great rabbis looked at the christians, then each other, and said: "hmmm we can learn a few things..." so today my crazy cousin who mutes the TV or Radio or real life, when a lady begin singing is actually upholding a goyish tradition of keeping women firmly quiet in church and elsewhere. All this covering up is ridiculous too, because only ashkenazi women uphold it with such fervor. sephardic women today do not cover up every inch like the ashkenazi women do. immodesty is treating your body as a pin cushion or filling it like a toxins. hashem made beauty, especially feminine beauty for the world to see and appreciate. if everyone is made in the image of hashem, then why could we cover it up? beauty is just another one of hashems great creations.
”
You're nuts. This has nothing to do with the Sefardi/Ashkenazi divide. Neither kol isha nor tzniut derive from Xians! On the contrary, Xian women traditionally showed MORE than did Moslem ones, and so Ashkenazi tradition on this is generally LESS strict than Sefardi. (Bear in mind that BEYOND the minimum required by halacha everywhere, anything that is usually covered by the local women must also be covered; so the details of hilchos tznius depend on the local fashions and customs.) Observant Sefardiot are not less modest than observant Ashkenaziot; note that the rav whom these designers consulted is hardly a voosvoos.
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Jun 21, 2009 at 02:13 AM Anonymous Says:
“ looks great with a matching veil ”
Hi Aaronie, Thank you so much, But who needs A matching veil altogether ? Alovely head with hair is alot better or use a Plastic cap. I would not let myself into all these Mishagoss altogether
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Jun 21, 2009 at 02:06 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Quote #38 All this covering up is ridiculous too, because only ashkenazi women uphold it with such fervor. sephardic women today do not cover up every inch like the ashkenazi women do. immodesty is treating your body as a pin cushion or filling it like a toxins. hashem made beauty, especially feminine beauty for the world to see and appreciate. if everyone is made in the image of hashem, then why could we cover it up? beauty is just another one of hashems great creations."
Hmmm, I think I should add some things to your post. Feminine beauty is something not to be covered up. In fact, lets flaunt what we got. Why cant I wear something that shows my beautiful perfect size 2 figure. The heck with tznius, that was given to the arabs, and narrow minded people.
I meant to be sarcastic. #38 and alot of others should read the basic halachas of tznius AND FOLLOW IT.
”
By the way this is not true that only Ashkenazi women uphold with it . I am Ashkenazi & never tried to change my style, i believe There's no question how a woman goes dressed in the pool. Men have no right of looking , so there would not be so much sheilos whether the woman is correctly dressed or not. Stop Looking on other woman , & be to yourself & go learn ,not look on woman period
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Jun 21, 2009 at 02:04 AM Milhouse Says:
“ 1. These bathing suits are a hazard when swimming, there is a greater chance of drowning with all that fabric on the woman.
2. Her "comfortable" level has to do with self esteem, not tzniot.
3. This wont make it okay for both men and women to swim together. -wet clinging clothing on a woman's body is just as untzniot.
Solution?
work out, lose weight, get a self esteem, and you wont feel "uncomfortable" about wearing a bathing suit around other people.
p.s. making this story publicly available for men about women in bathing suits is tzniot, how exactly?
On a side point.
In response to "lm Says" - "Besides being the cause of other people’s sins."
Why don't these "inadvertent" sinners take responsibility for their actions, instead of always having to look elsewhere for blame. Grow Up! ”
"Why don't these "inadvertent" sinners take responsibility for their actions"
You have no idea at all what you're talking about, do you?
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Jun 21, 2009 at 02:02 AM Milhouse Says:
“ It is people like you, who use the Torah for your own crazy ideas that are responsible for what is going on in the world today. I have gone swimming with the wives and mothers of countless roshei yeshiva. They did not wear bikinis or tankinis but normal bathing suits. They do not cover their hair when they go to sleep and have been zocheh to having children who are bnei torah. You obviously have been drilled with ideas of Kimchis and the type of person she was. You are not worthy to see a kohein gadol but think you can be the parent of one. The chofetz chaim did not have the mechitzos we have these days. they didnt even have pools. But, you surround yourself with the holy words as though they apply to you. I bet you are a mechanech or mechaneches that throws kids out of school for not living up to your standards. i would love to hear what the chofetz chaim thinks of YOU! Problem is, he doesn't speak lashon harah. Go back to your caves. ”
And what exactly is wrong with learning from Kimchis? If never uncovering her hair is what gave Kimchis such great merit, then how can it not be something worth emulating? Whether you will get to be the mother of a Cohen Godol, who can say? Certainly not if your husband isn't a Cohen, no matter how great a tzadekes you are! But the gemoro doesn't give the story as a recipe for producing Cohanim Gedolim, but as an exemplar of how a woman should behave. So what's your objection?
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Jun 21, 2009 at 01:53 AM Milhouse Says:
“ I agree 100%. you can probaly fill a book on chumras that is not actual halacha. ”
And what's wrong with that? Chumros and hiddurim are what make the yidden special.
דרש רב עוירא, זמנין אמר לה משמיה דר' אמי וזמנין אמר לה משמיה דר' אסי: אמרו מלאכי השרת לפני הקב"ה: רבש"ע כתוב בתורתך "אשר לא ישא פנים ולא יקח שחד", והלא אתה נושא פנים לישראל, דכתיב "ישא ה' פניו אליך"! אמר להם: וכי לא אשא פנים לישראל, שכתבתי להם בתורה "ואכלת ושבעת וברכת את ה' אלהיך", והם מדקדקים [על] עצמם עד כזית ועד כביצה? י
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Jun 21, 2009 at 01:42 AM Milhouse Says:
“ How does a Rov give a hechsher on a woman's swimsuit? Does he examine it? ”
Yes. Just as he examines shaylos that are brought to him.
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Jun 21, 2009 at 01:40 AM Milhouse Says:
“ The article says that some great rebbe provided the hechsher but for obvious reasons, did not wish to have his hame or posek published. Clearly, to provide such an approval he would have very carefully examine the models wearing the suit to be certain they did not give rise to lustful thoughts or other tzinus concerns. ”
This is our old friend Mr "gadolim" the sheigetz again. His tells are all there. And for your information, sheigetz, the rov's name is right there on the web site. He's not hiding anything, and unlike your so-called "gadolim", he's certainly got broad enough shoulders for something like this.
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Jun 21, 2009 at 01:45 AM Anonymous Says:
I am a quite confident slim young woman, though I cannot imagine myself ever going swimming with a bathing suit. I view my beautiful young self as a precious treasure that's here to fulfill a tafkid. Exposing it in public, even where just women are around would diminish its value. I don't think its a matter of tznius, provided that there are only women in the vicinity. Its rather a matter of respect for ourselves. I wear the coolouts mentioned in a previous comment.
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Jun 21, 2009 at 09:31 AM kivi Says:
Why don't the ladies just use a submarine no more headaches?????
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Jun 21, 2009 at 05:39 PM LG Says:
As a lifeguard for many years the idea of women swimming in dresses really scares me!One should be aware that this may be putting onself in danger.
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Jun 21, 2009 at 05:09 PM Anonymous Says:
“ this whole idea is sick and absurd. Doesnt the jewish community have any real issues to worry about????? i am so tired of all these absurd chumrahs which are so far removed from anything G-d ever said or intended. ”
No. All the issues have been solved. Including what bracha to make on Bamba.
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Jun 21, 2009 at 08:39 PM Anonymous Says:
I, personally, would swim with a regular bathing suit among women. At the same time, I have been lifeguarding for over 10 years at a girl's camp that requires T-shirts over the bathing suits and I can assuredly state from experience, that there is no danger of swimming, jumping with a t-shirt.
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Jun 23, 2009 at 05:34 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Hi Aaronie, Thank you so much, But who needs A matching veil altogether ? Alovely head with hair is alot better or use a Plastic cap. I would not let myself into all these Mishagoss altogether ”
If you did't get the sarcasm, jump into the lake and shut up.
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Jun 24, 2009 at 01:03 AM LG Says:
“ I, personally, would swim with a regular bathing suit among women. At the same time, I have been lifeguarding for over 10 years at a girl's camp that requires T-shirts over the bathing suits and I can assuredly state from experience, that there is no danger of swimming, jumping with a t-shirt. ”
Just because nothing happend b'h doen't make it safe!long tee shirt create drag which could pull a swimmer down in the deep additionally it could chas vshallom get stuck on something...
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Jun 24, 2009 at 11:33 AM BB Says:
In a women-only environment what tznius issues are there? If there are men in the vicinity than this is not the answer as these swimsuits would not do the job as well. This just another example of Uber-frumkeit or as us Yiddish speakers would say "Ibergedribben". Is there any other Taliban practices that we want to adopt....?