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Postville, IA - Group from Montreal Agrees to Buy Agriprocessors Kosher Slaughterhouse |
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Jun 23, 2009 at 05:08 PM
News Source: AP
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The move confirmed by bankruptcy trustee Joe Sarachek ends months of uncertainty for the Agriprocessors Inc. plant and the town of Postville.
Sarachek says Hershey Friedman, president of Montreal-based Polystar Packaging, and two partners bought out the slaughterhouse's outstanding credit.
The lines of credit were valued at $21 million, but Sarachek says the group paid "significantly less."
Sarachek says the men bought the slaughterhouse under the name SHF Industries, a company formed in Iowa on May 6.
A date for the bankruptcy hearing hasn't been set.
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Read Comments (56) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 23, 2009 at 06:00 PM anonymous Says:
I know Hershey and his family well. He should be matzliach in this endeavor and continue to be a magnificent supporter of Torah while providing a livelihood for acheinu bnai yisroel in Postville.
2
Jun 23, 2009 at 05:50 PM Anonymous Says:
Line of credit? How does a company in bankrupcy hold a line of credit?
3
Jun 23, 2009 at 05:50 PM NYCbuff Says:
Who is this Friedman ? What's his track record ? -k-
4
Jun 23, 2009 at 05:46 PM Anonymous Says:
Based on their current product line, they will probably use the facility to manufacture certain specialized plastic and polymer packaging products...lets hope we never have to hear again about Postville and can forget about rubaskkin and leave this debacle behind us.
5
Jun 23, 2009 at 06:04 PM Anonymous Says:
So essentially the Rubashkins family business is snatched from them??? Please explain this further...
6
Jun 23, 2009 at 06:30 PM sicko Says:
that sicko who is profiting from another yid's demise should have nothing but tzores from this endevour.
7
Jun 23, 2009 at 06:29 PM Anonymous Says:
#4 and why would they buy a meat shechting plant?? I think they are being mezakeh the rabbim with kosher meat is their plan!
8
Jun 23, 2009 at 06:25 PM Anonymous Says:
The company in bankruptcy still has outstanding debt. This wasn't a banruptcy to reorganize, it was a liquidation and whoever buys the company has to make a deal with the debtor.
And, no...the Rubashkin family business was not snatched. The Rubashkin family ran it into the ground and lost it. Their financial trouble came LONG before there was ever an issue with hiring illegal immigrants.
9
Jun 23, 2009 at 06:22 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Based on their current product line, they will probably use the facility to manufacture certain specialized plastic and polymer packaging products...lets hope we never have to hear again about Postville and can forget about rubaskkin and leave this debacle behind us. ”
Correction to No. 4...they apparently will try to operate the facility as a shoichthaus, not a plastics factory...sorry for the confusion...they plastics are what they made their money doing
10
Jun 23, 2009 at 06:16 PM PMO Says:
“ Based on their current product line, they will probably use the facility to manufacture certain specialized plastic and polymer packaging products...lets hope we never have to hear again about Postville and can forget about rubaskkin and leave this debacle behind us. ”
Why would you say such a thing? With proper management that abides by the laws of the US, this plant could once again be a thriving kosher facility. The lack of supply from Rubashkin has driven prices of meat VERY high. It will be nice to see better competition in the marketplace. We all win.
11
Jun 23, 2009 at 07:46 PM Anonymous Says:
I hope it will say the Heshy & Reisy Friedman Campus
12
Jun 23, 2009 at 07:41 PM MICKEY Says:
Good luck Hershy!
13
Jun 23, 2009 at 07:32 PM ShatzMatz Says:
Is this Friedman the same guy who has the Marvid chicken plant in Montreal? If yes then he is a brilliant businessman and he will make this meat plant a success. They even have experience in dealing with the union, so they are perfect for this enterprise.
If this is a different Friedman then I take everything back.
14
Jun 23, 2009 at 07:19 PM Former Montrealer Says:
“ that sicko who is profiting from another yid's demise should have nothing but tzores from this endevour. ”
You're a sicko yourself!
15
Jun 23, 2009 at 07:18 PM Former Montrealer Says:
“ Who is this Friedman ? What's his track record ? -k- ”
You mean you haven't heard of Hershey Friedman? He's a wonderful person and a great supporter of Torah institutions worldwide. The new Shas - Mehuderes Friedman - that's the one.
16
Jun 23, 2009 at 06:51 PM chahdisha chesed Says:
i know a little about the rubaaskins they are the pillar of chesed,and i know they shipped there meats all over the united states in where it wasn't profitable to sell kosher meat there because of the lack of demand in certain places, they also kept there prices low which helped all of is by forcing the competition to keep in line .as we now see,how the prices have went up,i guess you cant run a profitable business on chesed alone,as long as the rebbi was alive i guessed he watched over them,but now,,,i guess you cant run a business that way of constantly losing money you can milk a cow only so much,i guess the cash cow died ...........there nothing left to scahect
17
Jun 23, 2009 at 08:13 PM Anonymous Says:
“ that sicko who is profiting from another yid's demise should have nothing but tzores from this endevour. ”
whats your issue, let the guy make a parnasa, what else should be done to the business.
18
Jun 23, 2009 at 07:06 PM Anonymous Says:
#4 and why would they buy a meat shechting plant?? I think they are being mezakeh the rabbim with kosher meat is their plan!
19
Jun 23, 2009 at 09:29 PM Anonymous Says:
IOWA CITY, Iowa (AP) — The president of a Canadian plastics plant and two others filed court documents Tuesday to buy a struggling kosher slaughterhouse in northeast Iowa that was the site of a massive raid by immigration agents last year.
Bankruptcy trustee Joe Sarachek said the move should end months of uncertainty for the plant, Agriprocessors Inc., and the town of Postville. The sale would be subject to the approval of a bankruptcy court. A previous attempt to auction the plant failed three months ago.
"If no one else bids on it and the judge approves the sale, they own Agriprocessors," Sarachek said. "Other buyers are certainly free to come in and bid more."
Agriprocessors, once the nation's largest supplier of kosher meat, is the largest employer in Postville, a community that once had more than 2,000 residents but has seen its population dwindle and many businesses fail since the plant ran into trouble.
Top managers and the company were indicted months after 389 people were arrested in a May 12, 2008 immigration raid. Nearly six months later, Agriprocessors filed for bankruptcy and the court began seeking a buyer. An Israeli company came forward with a $40 million bid, but later rescinded it and the plant was put up for auction.
Sarachek said Hershey Friedman, president of Montreal-based Polystar Packaging, and two partners bought out the secured credit of two of the company's major creditors. Friedman and the other two buyers do not own any slaughterhouses in the U.S. or Canada.
The lines of credit were valued at $21 million, but Sarachek said SHF Industries paid less. The loans were a sticking point in the auction, as potential buyers could not agree with the creditors on a price. The creditors were not expected to get back the entire sums of the loans, and most of the auction process was spent determining what buyers would pay for them.
Sarachek did not disclose how much SHF Industries paid for the lines of credit, but said the company can be valued at slightly more than $25 million.
Sarachek said the two other partners, Daniel Hirsch and Mitch Kirschner, work in Friedman's U.S. operations. Sarachek said Hirsh is Friedman's son-in-law. Telephone messages left for Friedman and Kirschner were not immediately returned. No listing for Hirsh could be found.
Friedman is listed as president of Polystar Packaging and another plastics manufacturer in Brooklyn, N.Y., called Favorite Plastics. Polystar was founded in 1963 and employs 75 people, according to a Canadian government Web site.
The pending sale would include all of Agriprocessors' assets in New York, Florida and Iowa, which so far have served as collateral for the two loans. Sarachek said any equipment that was leased by the company would have to be negotiated after the sale. A date hasn't been set for the bankruptcy court to consider the sale.
Kevin Huntsman, a vice president and plastics specialist at Kansas City-based commodities consulting firm Mastio and Co., said it would make sense for Friedman to buy the meatpacking plant, as Polystar Packaging is one of the top 15 manufacturers of meat and poultry packaging.
Another Agriprocessors asset, the Local Pride meatpacking plant in Gordon, Neb., is not a part of the sale and will be sold separately.
20
Jun 23, 2009 at 09:18 PM Milhouse Says:
“ The company in bankruptcy still has outstanding debt. This wasn't a banruptcy to reorganize, it was a liquidation and whoever buys the company has to make a deal with the debtor.
And, no...the Rubashkin family business was not snatched. The Rubashkin family ran it into the ground and lost it. Their financial trouble came LONG before there was ever an issue with hiring illegal immigrants. ”
With the debtor? The business IS the debtor! Do you have any idea what you're talking about, or are you stam hacking a chainik? The new company is buying the plant from the administrator; why would it have to deal with anybody else?
21
Jun 23, 2009 at 09:16 PM Milhouse Says:
“ The company in bankruptcy still has outstanding debt. This wasn't a banruptcy to reorganize, it was a liquidation and whoever buys the company has to make a deal with the debtor.
And, no...the Rubashkin family business was not snatched. The Rubashkin family ran it into the ground and lost it. Their financial trouble came LONG before there was ever an issue with hiring illegal immigrants. ”
No, it didn't. The business was destroyed by resha'im, and everybody who had a hand in that evil deed will have to face the Heavenly Court. But that's all water under the bridge. The Rubashkins have already lost it; now it's good that someone else will take it over.
22
Jun 23, 2009 at 09:12 PM Milhouse Says:
“ that sicko who is profiting from another yid's demise should have nothing but tzores from this endevour. ”
Why? What should he have done, left it with the administrator? What good would that do anyone? The business was for sale, so he bought it. If the bank forecloses on someone's mortgage and sells the house, should one refuse to buy it? If an apartment becomes vacant because the tenant died, is it "profiting from another yid's [literal] demise" to move in?
23
Jun 23, 2009 at 09:10 PM Milhouse Says:
“ So essentially the Rubashkins family business is snatched from them??? Please explain this further... ”
The company owed more money than it could pay, so it became worthless. The Rubashkins haven't owned it since it went into administration. What more needs explaining?
24
Jun 23, 2009 at 09:08 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Line of credit? How does a company in bankrupcy hold a line of credit? ”
How do you think it can operate without one?
25
Jun 23, 2009 at 09:15 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Is this Friedman the same guy who has the Marvid chicken plant in Montreal? If yes then he is a brilliant businessman and he will make this meat plant a success. They even have experience in dealing with the union, so they are perfect for this enterprise.
If this is a different Friedman then I take everything back. ”
yes , its the same friedman as marvid
26
Jun 23, 2009 at 09:12 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Based on their current product line, they will probably use the facility to manufacture certain specialized plastic and polymer packaging products...lets hope we never have to hear again about Postville and can forget about rubaskkin and leave this debacle behind us. ”
To Mr. Anonymous #4:
Do NOT use the pronoun "we"!
You have made it known throughout these past 14 months and more that you have excluded yourself from the Jewish People in thought, speech, and action.
Who do you think you are kidding?
27
Jun 23, 2009 at 08:32 PM tzirel Says:
“ that sicko who is profiting from another yid's demise should have nothing but tzores from this endevour. ”
To sicko ur sick urself for saying that. Y can't u see someone doing well and be happy for them I knw the freidmans very very well and I wish them only hatzlacha in all that they do and may they be very matzliach
28
Jun 23, 2009 at 08:26 PM tzirel Says:
“ Who is this Friedman ? What's his track record ? -k- ”
His track record is 20x better than ur that's for sure if u can ask such a stupid question. He is one of the biggest tzedakah ppl that I knw
29
Jun 23, 2009 at 08:20 PM Hate em Tatem Says:
“ The company in bankruptcy still has outstanding debt. This wasn't a banruptcy to reorganize, it was a liquidation and whoever buys the company has to make a deal with the debtor.
And, no...the Rubashkin family business was not snatched. The Rubashkin family ran it into the ground and lost it. Their financial trouble came LONG before there was ever an issue with hiring illegal immigrants. ”
"This wasn't a banruptcy to reorganize"
Actaully, it was. The court documents show how Rubashkin filed a chapter 11, not a chapter 7.
"it was a liquidation and whoever buys the company has to make a deal with the debtor"
Wrong. Had this been a chapter 7, which would be a liquidation, the buyer would not need to make a deal with the debtor. Only with the trustee. In addition, the trustee would not sell the good will of the business, only the assets.
#2- why can't a company in bankruptcy hold a line of credit, look at 363 and 365 of the bankruptcy code
#5- this is a bankruptcy, things like this happen, usually because the debtor files for bankruptcy too late
#6- they are not profiting from someone else's demise as you put it; instead, they are buying the corporation in a bankruptcy.
30
Jun 23, 2009 at 10:07 PM AIS Says:
Canadians? Great, now I'll have weed in my kushere meat not meth.
31
Jun 23, 2009 at 11:00 PM tzirel Says:
“ Canadians? Great, now I'll have weed in my kushere meat not meth. ”
Hey take that bck as an old canadian we bh have less crime then here in NY and we are very proud of the canadians we are always the ones lending a helping hand
32
Jun 23, 2009 at 10:47 PM tzoorba Says:
What happened to Rubashkin was very unfortunate and he is a victim of baseless hatred and victimization. We owe him a debt of hakoras hatov for the food he provided for us in the past. May Hashem save him from his problems quickly.
Heshy Friedman is a big tzaddik and if I am not mistaken, he is the one behind the Dirshu learning program among other things. He is an outstanding machzik torah and a great credit to Klal Yisroel.
May Hashem grant him great success in all his endeavors.
33
Jun 23, 2009 at 10:36 PM Anonymous Says:
does anyone know how bankrupcy really works? they pay x to the trustee and that money goes where?
what happens to the money owed to the banks?
and for the machines?
do they own the buildings if it was owned by rubashkin? etc...
please only respond if u know what you're talking about.
thanks
34
Jun 23, 2009 at 10:26 PM Anonymous Says:
so many jealous pple, wow - especially #6!! Daniel is one of the partners? awesome! I wish them a continuation of the amazing mazel they've been having till now.
35
Jun 23, 2009 at 10:15 PM i know Says:
fact; not the same friedman as marvid, thats moishe of satmar, this is hershey
fact; the rubashkins already lost in in groissen. he is not profiting from anyones loss. he is the largest machzik torah in the generation by far. mir, lkwd, skver, bels e/o has benefitted from his largesse.
fact; he is a sweet jew
36
Jun 23, 2009 at 10:13 PM Anonymous Says:
“ To Mr. Anonymous #4:
Do NOT use the pronoun "we"!
You have made it known throughout these past 14 months and more that you have excluded yourself from the Jewish People in thought, speech, and action.
Who do you think you are kidding? ”
What has been going on for 14 months that makes you want to put poster no. 4 in cherem (assuming he is someone you know)...
37
Jun 24, 2009 at 06:29 AM Anonymous Says:
“ that sicko who is profiting from another yid's demise should have nothing but tzores from this endevour. ”
Why do u call him a "sicko"? If he would have been a goy would you then say he is a smart businessman? Why dont you look at it from the point of view that maybe he'll once again, bring more competition back into the market thereby lowering the outragous prices we are currently paying for meet and poultry?
38
Jun 23, 2009 at 11:19 PM Anonymous Says:
“ "This wasn't a banruptcy to reorganize"
Actaully, it was. The court documents show how Rubashkin filed a chapter 11, not a chapter 7.
"it was a liquidation and whoever buys the company has to make a deal with the debtor"
Wrong. Had this been a chapter 7, which would be a liquidation, the buyer would not need to make a deal with the debtor. Only with the trustee. In addition, the trustee would not sell the good will of the business, only the assets.
#2- why can't a company in bankruptcy hold a line of credit, look at 363 and 365 of the bankruptcy code
#5- this is a bankruptcy, things like this happen, usually because the debtor files for bankruptcy too late
#6- they are not profiting from someone else's demise as you put it; instead, they are buying the corporation in a bankruptcy. ”
Tell me you don't do this for a living- you know just enought to be dangerous.
Many debtors file chapter 11 rather than 7 even though they are going to liquidate, since 11 offers more breathing room for the debtor to control the liquidation process. I don't if Agri filed 11 or 7, but in any event a trustee has been appointed meaning the debtor is essentially cut out of the process.
As to buying the lines of credit, I can't imagine that any prepetition Agri credit facility is not in default. The reporter probably garbled the story. It sounds more like the purchaser is striking a deal with the secured creditors who have liens on the property being sold. For example, if before the petition date Agri had a line of credit with Bank in exchange for a lien on substantially all of Agri's assets, the bankruptcy code offers Bank certain protecetions when a debtor/trustee try to sell the liened assets.
39
Jun 24, 2009 at 06:51 AM Says:
There still is no Jewish concept of bankruptcy or corporate liability. As such, the Rubashkin family is still responsible to pay the shochtim and mashgichim and everyone else that was not paid for labor, goods or services..
Most yidden want to see that facility closed forever. The damage done to yiddishkeit and the chillul Hashen that occurred there cannot be undone in our lifetime.
Those who sympathise with the Rubashkin family should set up a fund and pay off those who were not paid by the Rubashkins. Like putting your money where your mouth is.
40
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:07 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Hey take that bck as an old canadian we bh have less crime then here in NY and we are very proud of the canadians we are always the ones lending a helping hand ”
The difference in crime rates between the USA and Canada is entirely due to demographics. The white crime rate in the two countries is much the same.
41
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:11 AM Milhouse Says:
“ does anyone know how bankrupcy really works? they pay x to the trustee and that money goes where?
what happens to the money owed to the banks?
and for the machines?
do they own the buildings if it was owned by rubashkin? etc...
please only respond if u know what you're talking about.
thanks ”
The money goes to the creditors. In this case, Friedman bought the banks' lines of credit, so those don't have to be paid; had someone else bought the business the trustee would have to pay Friedman most of the purchase price. The buildings belong to Agri, which has now been sold. Leased equipment belongs to its owners.
42
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:37 AM meatloaf Says:
1) This is not the same Friedman as Marvid Poultry.
2) Hershy's "partners" are his son-in-law who works for him and another employee.
3) Just because he makes plastic trays for poultry products doesn't mean he knows anything about poultry processing. He will have to bring in someone to run the plant. Perhaps the Friedman who owns Marvid.
4) If he keeps the Rubaskin family in place to run the company, look for them to continue sabotaging the production as they did under the Trusatee. They will attempt to futher the failure of the plant so they can repurchase it for a song and a dance. They are rumors in Postville that the Rubashkins are saying they will regain control of the operation within six months.
5) If the Rubashkin's are forced out of the plant, they still own 40% of the real estate in Postville. They will force rents up forcing the plant owners to pay employees more so they can live in Postville, thus hurting the chances of making this a plant a going concern.
This is all very sad.
43
Jun 24, 2009 at 08:19 AM ShatzsMatz Says:
I hope that Mr. Friedman is at least mentch enough in conditioning his deal on the authorities making a settlement with Shlomo Rubashkin. If Mr. Friedman is sucha good yid as people are saying, I am sure he does not want to benefit from a business while its former owners are crushed by an overzealous 'persocution'. Regardless of Rubaskin's past sins, if the plant is going to get another chance at life so should the Rubashkins. They have paid enough.
With the ecnomy as it is in that area, I am sure that the authorities can be persuaded to make a package deal.
Please do the right thing Mr. Friedman. In this zechus your new venture will surely be blessed with success.
44
Jun 24, 2009 at 08:58 AM Anonymous Says:
“ 1) This is not the same Friedman as Marvid Poultry.
2) Hershy's "partners" are his son-in-law who works for him and another employee.
3) Just because he makes plastic trays for poultry products doesn't mean he knows anything about poultry processing. He will have to bring in someone to run the plant. Perhaps the Friedman who owns Marvid.
4) If he keeps the Rubaskin family in place to run the company, look for them to continue sabotaging the production as they did under the Trusatee. They will attempt to futher the failure of the plant so they can repurchase it for a song and a dance. They are rumors in Postville that the Rubashkins are saying they will regain control of the operation within six months.
5) If the Rubashkin's are forced out of the plant, they still own 40% of the real estate in Postville. They will force rents up forcing the plant owners to pay employees more so they can live in Postville, thus hurting the chances of making this a plant a going concern.
This is all very sad.
”
1) You are correct.
2) Who cares?
3) Did you think he was planning to stand at the machines himself? Of course, he'll have someone overseeing the plant.
4) Rumors mean nothing! Have you checked with Friedman if he plans to keep the Rubashkin family in place?
5) You cannot force rents up just like that. There are rental laws!
Yes, this is very sad, but people like you make it even sadder...
45
Jun 24, 2009 at 08:49 AM Anonymous Says:
“ yes , its the same friedman as marvid ”
Marvid is owned by Moshe Friedman, not Hershey Friedman.
46
Jun 24, 2009 at 08:39 AM Anonymous Says:
“ that sicko who is profiting from another yid's demise should have nothing but tzores from this endevour. ”
Do you realize how many issurei d'Oraisa you are over with that comment? Let me list just a few for you: cursing a fellow Jew, telling over loshon hara, telling over rechilus, judging your fellow Jew unfavorably, ... Should I keep going??? Why don't you pick up a copy of Chofetz Chaim and read it very carefully.
47
Jun 24, 2009 at 10:54 AM Milhouse Says:
“ There still is no Jewish concept of bankruptcy or corporate liability. As such, the Rubashkin family is still responsible to pay the shochtim and mashgichim and everyone else that was not paid for labor, goods or services..
Most yidden want to see that facility closed forever. The damage done to yiddishkeit and the chillul Hashen that occurred there cannot be undone in our lifetime.
Those who sympathise with the Rubashkin family should set up a fund and pay off those who were not paid by the Rubashkins. Like putting your money where your mouth is. ”
No, they are not responsible. People did business with the business, they lent to the business; they knew and accepted that if the business went under they would not be paid. They never had any claim on the Rubashkins personally, and they still have no claim on them. That is how business is done, and everybody knows it. And the halacha follows this 100%.
48
Jun 24, 2009 at 11:25 AM Anonymous Says:
“ What happened to Rubashkin was very unfortunate and he is a victim of baseless hatred and victimization. We owe him a debt of hakoras hatov for the food he provided for us in the past. May Hashem save him from his problems quickly.
Heshy Friedman is a big tzaddik and if I am not mistaken, he is the one behind the Dirshu learning program among other things. He is an outstanding machzik torah and a great credit to Klal Yisroel.
May Hashem grant him great success in all his endeavors. ”
You are mistaken, Hershy Friedman is NOT behind Dirshi. Dovid Hofstedter from Toronto is not just behind, he is Dirshu.
49
Jun 24, 2009 at 11:59 AM Anonymous Says:
#4 and why would they buy a meat shechting plant?? I think they are being mezakeh the rabbim with kosher meat is their plan!
50
Jun 24, 2009 at 04:10 PM Anonymous Says:
“ There still is no Jewish concept of bankruptcy or corporate liability. As such, the Rubashkin family is still responsible to pay the shochtim and mashgichim and everyone else that was not paid for labor, goods or services..
Most yidden want to see that facility closed forever. The damage done to yiddishkeit and the chillul Hashen that occurred there cannot be undone in our lifetime.
Those who sympathise with the Rubashkin family should set up a fund and pay off those who were not paid by the Rubashkins. Like putting your money where your mouth is. ”
#39 > You are nuts!
First of all, most (normal) Yidden do NOT want that facility closed forever. Don't make up false stories or statements. It's you that should be locked up forever.
Also, the Rubashkins cannot pay anyone with money they do not have (assuming there are employees they owe money to). Why are you so sure that there are employees that did not get paid?
Maybe YOU should collect money to pay those guys or go to jail for your insensitive remarks about others. Shame on you.
51
Jun 24, 2009 at 09:37 PM Meatloaf Says:
#44 said:
5) You cannot force rents up just like that. There are rental laws!
This is Postville, NOT New York. There are no rental laws on the books limiting the amount of rent increases or changes in rental fees. They only began looking at laws governing occupancy around December 2008, when the real estate bubble burst in Postville.BTW, fire escapes in multi family buildings are not required in Postville. It was only a few months ago that they required smoke detectors.
52
Jun 25, 2009 at 12:34 PM Litvak Says:
“ No, they are not responsible. People did business with the business, they lent to the business; they knew and accepted that if the business went under they would not be paid. They never had any claim on the Rubashkins personally, and they still have no claim on them. That is how business is done, and everybody knows it. And the halacha follows this 100%. ”
The Rubashkin Family is HALACHICALLY responsible for the shenanigans at Postville.
Do not talk from both sides of your mouth - on one hand, you hold that dina dmalchusa does not apply when it comes to illegal aliens and bank fraud. On the other hand, you hold that bankruptcy laws apply instead on Torah laws on paying workers and suppliers.
"The halacha follows this 100%"?
What is your source? No lubavitch sources, please
53
Jun 25, 2009 at 12:55 PM Litvak Says:
“ #39 > You are nuts!
First of all, most (normal) Yidden do NOT want that facility closed forever. Don't make up false stories or statements. It's you that should be locked up forever.
Also, the Rubashkins cannot pay anyone with money they do not have (assuming there are employees they owe money to). Why are you so sure that there are employees that did not get paid?
Maybe YOU should collect money to pay those guys or go to jail for your insensitive remarks about others. Shame on you. ”
If you take away the Lubavitch faction, then most yidden are sick of the chullul Hashen that went on in that town. All the stupidity, including that great statement "we have to keep the wages low so that Jews can buy cheap meat" - all the stuidity must stop.
Better check the bankruptcy filing. There are many employees that were not paid. The Rubashkins have plenty of money to start 'The Springfield Group" - selling Rubashkin meat from South America, Canada, and other places. Where do you think the Shor Habor deli came from if there was no gassos shechita in Postville
Shame on me? I am looking out for the employees that were not paid. I am looking out for the suppliers that depended on that money to survive. Instead, they were stiffed by a 'religous' Jew that has no money, but can go to the kever of his Rebbe's Yortzeit. He had enough money to fly 25 Rabbonim on a 3 hour tour but not enough to pay his shochtim and mashgichim.
Who are you protecting? Affter 120 years, you will have to give a din vecheshbon on why you defended a Rasha.
54
Jun 25, 2009 at 12:59 PM Litvak Says:
“ #44 said:
5) You cannot force rents up just like that. There are rental laws!
This is Postville, NOT New York. There are no rental laws on the books limiting the amount of rent increases or changes in rental fees. They only began looking at laws governing occupancy around December 2008, when the real estate bubble burst in Postville.BTW, fire escapes in multi family buildings are not required in Postville. It was only a few months ago that they required smoke detectors.
”
The laws were made in Postville to protect the residents from the slumlords that came from Brooklyn.
55
Jun 26, 2009 at 04:09 PM Milhouse Says:
“ If you take away the Lubavitch faction, then most yidden are sick of the chullul Hashen that went on in that town. All the stupidity, including that great statement "we have to keep the wages low so that Jews can buy cheap meat" - all the stuidity must stop.
Better check the bankruptcy filing. There are many employees that were not paid. The Rubashkins have plenty of money to start 'The Springfield Group" - selling Rubashkin meat from South America, Canada, and other places. Where do you think the Shor Habor deli came from if there was no gassos shechita in Postville
Shame on me? I am looking out for the employees that were not paid. I am looking out for the suppliers that depended on that money to survive. Instead, they were stiffed by a 'religous' Jew that has no money, but can go to the kever of his Rebbe's Yortzeit. He had enough money to fly 25 Rabbonim on a 3 hour tour but not enough to pay his shochtim and mashgichim.
Who are you protecting? Affter 120 years, you will have to give a din vecheshbon on why you defended a Rasha. ”
I have no worries about this after 120. On the contrary, I look forward to counting this as a zechus, to counterbalance my many chovos. You should worry about your own trial before kisei hakovod, when all the tens of thousands whom the Rubashkins have helped, and all those whom they would have helped had they had the means, will come to testify for them and against you. If I were in your boots I'd be shaking in them.
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Jun 26, 2009 at 04:06 PM Milhouse Says:
“ The Rubashkin Family is HALACHICALLY responsible for the shenanigans at Postville.
Do not talk from both sides of your mouth - on one hand, you hold that dina dmalchusa does not apply when it comes to illegal aliens and bank fraud. On the other hand, you hold that bankruptcy laws apply instead on Torah laws on paying workers and suppliers.
"The halacha follows this 100%"?
What is your source? No lubavitch sources, please ”
The Rubashkin family is HALACHICALLY responsible for NOTHING. Nobody lent them a penny. They lent money to Agriprocesors, which is a company; the company owes them the money. They knew and consented to the terms of the deal, that if the business goes under they'll have to stand in line with all the other creditors. One doesn't even have to reach dina demalchusa for that. It's a tnai shebemamon, and kol tnai shebemamon kayam. And of course this is minhag hatagorim, which halacha recognises as binding.
As for dina demalchusa dina, means precisely what it says: that the malchus's din is a valid din. If the malchus says money is owed then it's owed, and if it says it isn't then it isn't. Where could you possibly get the idea that it means one must obey the law? Which words can you twist into meaning that?