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Brooklyn, NY - Teacher Convicted In Abuse Case |
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Jun 24, 2009 at 04:46 PM
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Brooklyn, NY - Kings County District Attorney Charles J. Hynes today announced the conviction of a 31-year-old teacher, for Seven Counts of Sexual Abuse in the Second Degree and Two Counts of Endangering the Welfare of a Child, for sexually abusing two boys.
The Flatbush Bar Mitzvah tutor and licensed social worker, will be sentenced September 9. He faces up to a two years in jail.
The victims were ages 12 and 13 at the time. One was one of the teacher's students, from his synagogue, where he gave Bar Mitzvah lessons. The other was a client from his work as a licensed social worker for the Jewish Board of Family and Children’s Services.
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Read Comments (96) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 24, 2009 at 05:09 PM Anonymous Says:
What happens after 2 years in jail? He goes back to tutoring barmitzva boys.....
2
Jun 24, 2009 at 05:08 PM Anonymous Says:
So how will JBFCS avoid this problem in the future?
3
Jun 24, 2009 at 05:40 PM Anonymous Says:
All he gets is two years after the kids had to testify and be cross examined? Where's the justice? He should get at least ten years.
4
Jun 24, 2009 at 05:04 PM Anonymous Says:
Was it possible to stop him with a yiddish'sah way? Just asking.
5
Jun 24, 2009 at 05:04 PM boruch ber Says:
here we go again. what the hell is going on?????
6
Jun 24, 2009 at 05:02 PM Anonymous Says:
up to two years? sorry, that's not enough.
7
Jun 24, 2009 at 06:09 PM Anonymous Says:
why do all you people think your the judges?? its none of your business! you dont even know if the guy is guilty, let alone what the case is! dont think your so smart! who said jail is the right thing anyway?? dont think your smart by "rendering YOUR verdict"
8
Jun 24, 2009 at 06:03 PM Anonymous Says:
“ up to two years? sorry, that's not enough. ”
Beats nothing. Now there is at least some punishment and publicity and acknowledgement. Perhaps there IS a problem.
What solution was happening the yiddish'sah way?
9
Jun 24, 2009 at 06:02 PM Anonymous Says:
Why was this not adjudicated in Bais din where the alleged molester could get a fair trial. What do we know about these boys? Maybe they had it in for this guy. Clearly a bais din wouldve done a better job. Not saying it didn't happen but there is little proof. I know him and he is an erliche yid
10
Jun 24, 2009 at 06:17 PM Anonymous Says:
“ here we go again. what the hell is going on????? ”
What is going on is simple. We have sexual abuse in our community as we have had before but people are finally getting fed up listening to the 'chachomim' who tell them to ignore it and the rabbonim will handle it.
Shoin tzeit.
11
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:26 PM Anonymous Says:
i know the guy personally and he would never do such a thing. He is a reputable guy.
news reports say the two boys are brothers. One of them obviously had some issues if he needed to see a social worker. Perhaps they are trying to get back at him for something.
Everyone should stop judging a person that they dont even know.
12
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:23 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why was this not adjudicated in Bais din where the alleged molester could get a fair trial. What do we know about these boys? Maybe they had it in for this guy. Clearly a bais din wouldve done a better job. Not saying it didn't happen but there is little proof. I know him and he is an erliche yid ”
"A bais din would have done a better job". Get me some of that stuff you're smoking.
13
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:17 PM Anonymous Says:
I met the guy. He told me that there was never any such incident. All the charges were fabricated. Four boys lied, and they were willing to report these lies to trap him and ruin his life. He was convinced that he would be vindicated in court since there is no evidence and nothing ever happened.
14
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:08 PM Molested In Monsey Says:
“ Why was this not adjudicated in Bais din where the alleged molester could get a fair trial. What do we know about these boys? Maybe they had it in for this guy. Clearly a bais din wouldve done a better job. Not saying it didn't happen but there is little proof. I know him and he is an erliche yid ”
What a joke. If you could find a bais din that is not corrupt you may get a fair trial. Nobody gets a jail term because the boys had it in for him. There needs to be a conviction based on testimony that does not leave a shadow of a doubt. There are guys with the longest peyos and beards who shukkel well and daven the longest amida and are the most ehliche of yidden and they are also vile molesters. They look good on the outside and do lots of chesed but are all rotten inside. Remember that the monsey butcher was an ehrliche upstanding kollel supporting baal tokea maggid shiur. How would the bais din have done a better job? How can you say "Not saying it didn't happen but there is little proof. I know him and he is an erliche yid” You are open the possibility that it could have happened but still vouch for his erlichkeit.
15
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:04 PM Anonymous Says:
dan l'ksav z'chus!!!!!!!!
16
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:03 PM Anonymous Says:
oy! This needs to stop!
17
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:01 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why was this not adjudicated in Bais din where the alleged molester could get a fair trial. What do we know about these boys? Maybe they had it in for this guy. Clearly a bais din wouldve done a better job. Not saying it didn't happen but there is little proof. I know him and he is an erliche yid ”
Hack mir nisht kain chainik!
With the $pecialized $himu$h the dayanim have nowadays, you have to be crazy to come there them.
18
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:32 PM shocking Says:
he should get a 10 year sentence and then lifetime probation!!!
19
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:31 PM Anonymous Says:
“ why do all you people think your the judges?? its none of your business! you dont even know if the guy is guilty, let alone what the case is! dont think your so smart! who said jail is the right thing anyway?? dont think your smart by "rendering YOUR verdict" ”
He was tried, he was convicted, he is guilty and it is everyone's business to know and to be mepharsaim his name and to keep it fresh in everyone's memory so they can keep their kids away from him when he gets out and for the rest of his life.
Only one of his fellow-sicko-perverts would be defending him and yelling that it is no one's business.
He is like poison and wherever he goes for the rest of his life there should be people warning the public to keep their kids away.
On second thought, he is not so much like like poison as he is more like a rabid dog who can destroy an innocent child with one contact.
20
Jun 24, 2009 at 08:07 PM Leo Says:
I do not know this case but what irks me is that people without any knowledge to the facts of the case and right after a convection by a jury, advocate that he could have not done it, basically their argument is that you cannot rely on the Jury system. Theses points of view give refuge to molester at-large, there is no molester who would walk about with a sign proclaiming, “I am a Pedophile” let me just quote you what the Judge in W case said during sentencing when W’s lawyer pointed out that the Grand Rabbi Weiss and hundreds of letters of support for W, The Judge acknowledged the hundreds of letters of support that he received. However, the Judge said they might really believe in his innocence and it makes perfect sense, a predator will not go to the head rabbi or close friends and tell them about his sexual prowess and exploits in a normal daily conversation so they do not know and mistakenly believe him. Therefore stop hurting the victims again.
May Hashem help every person who needs help.
21
Jun 24, 2009 at 08:01 PM Not A Victim Says:
“ He was tried, he was convicted, he is guilty and it is everyone's business to know and to be mepharsaim his name and to keep it fresh in everyone's memory so they can keep their kids away from him when he gets out and for the rest of his life.
Only one of his fellow-sicko-perverts would be defending him and yelling that it is no one's business.
He is like poison and wherever he goes for the rest of his life there should be people warning the public to keep their kids away.
On second thought, he is not so much like like poison as he is more like a rabid dog who can destroy an innocent child with one contact. ”
Is there ANY possibility he's innocent?
22
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:58 PM Anonymous Says:
“ i know the guy personally and he would never do such a thing. He is a reputable guy.
news reports say the two boys are brothers. One of them obviously had some issues if he needed to see a social worker. Perhaps they are trying to get back at him for something.
Everyone should stop judging a person that they dont even know. ”
Please...His side of the story was that the boys came on to him. The jury did the right thing in convicting this pervert.
23
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:56 PM Anonymous Says:
While I happen to agree that it's about time this is out in the open, because we're all so glad that these abuse cases finally get to see the light we always want to hang the alleged perp. Most of the time, rightfully so.............What happens if there is a case where a guy IS innocent and someone IS out to get him but because of the "GO GET EM'" climate we have today, he isn't even given a chance. Not saying that this particular guy is innocent but what happens if someone actaully IS?
24
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:56 PM Anonymous Says:
“ i know the guy personally and he would never do such a thing. He is a reputable guy.
news reports say the two boys are brothers. One of them obviously had some issues if he needed to see a social worker. Perhaps they are trying to get back at him for something.
Everyone should stop judging a person that they dont even know. ”
No need to judge him. A jury already did. He is guilty, guilty guilty and he will be going to spend time with chevrah that know how to deal with him and society should be making kiddush that a threat to our children is being taken off the streets, even if not for long enough.
Tough luck. If you are worried that you are next get off the internet and start looking for a good lawyer.
25
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:50 PM Anonymous Says:
“ dan l'ksav z'chus!!!!!!!! ”
You can be the tzaddik and be dan lekaf zechus. Send your kids to him for lessons.
The rest of us have IQ's over freezing and don't need a stronger warning than a conviction to know he is a pedophile.
All you are really concerned about is that frum people might all start handing over sexual abusers to the civil authorities and you could be next.
Good luck sleeping tonight. This conviction may give one of your victims the courage to come forward tomorrow morning and you guys could be rooming together pretty soon.
26
Jun 24, 2009 at 07:36 PM murray Says:
“ up to two years? sorry, that's not enough. ”
if I was the parent of a boy who was abused I would hope the perpetrator got ZERO jail time. If he is locked away, then he is secure (and you don't have any access); if he i freely walking the streets................lets just say that accidents happen.
27
Jun 24, 2009 at 08:32 PM Leo Says:
“ Is there ANY possibility he's innocent? ”
That is why the law is “beyond reasonable doubt”, not no doubt whatever, only Hashem and the victim know for hundred percent, humans don’t and never will.
28
Jun 24, 2009 at 09:08 PM Anonymous Says:
“ While I happen to agree that it's about time this is out in the open, because we're all so glad that these abuse cases finally get to see the light we always want to hang the alleged perp. Most of the time, rightfully so.............What happens if there is a case where a guy IS innocent and someone IS out to get him but because of the "GO GET EM'" climate we have today, he isn't even given a chance. Not saying that this particular guy is innocent but what happens if someone actaully IS? ”
Then ask that about every murderer and close the courts.
29
Jun 24, 2009 at 09:02 PM yehudala Says:
Lock'em up. Thank you to all staff members of VIN for reporting/posting storys like this make the public aware there is problems and with everyone's and by working together we will have a safe place for kids (sadly to say) however must be said good night America!
30
Jun 24, 2009 at 08:59 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why was this not adjudicated in Bais din where the alleged molester could get a fair trial. What do we know about these boys? Maybe they had it in for this guy. Clearly a bais din wouldve done a better job. Not saying it didn't happen but there is little proof. I know him and he is an erliche yid ”
Because this is a CRIME!! What part of illegal don't you get?
A Bais Din has no jurisdiction in legal matters. This isn't a dispute between neighbors, this is about kiddie rape. How much sicker can things get?
If he's an ehriche yid, send your sons to him for a sleepover!
31
Jun 24, 2009 at 08:53 PM PMO Says:
“ Why was this not adjudicated in Bais din where the alleged molester could get a fair trial. What do we know about these boys? Maybe they had it in for this guy. Clearly a bais din wouldve done a better job. Not saying it didn't happen but there is little proof. I know him and he is an erliche yid ”
"Clearly a bais din wouldve done a better job."
Really? What would they have done? Told him not do it anymore and send him on his merry way to another community where he could molest more kids?
I fully support the use of a beis din in civil matters and minor criminal matters. However, a beis din has no actual authority to do what needs to be done to serious, violent predators in this country. I'll let those with the power to take REAL action handle that stuff.
32
Jun 24, 2009 at 08:50 PM PMO Says:
And the crazy conspiracy theorists come out in droves once again.
Why does everyone think that the American justice system is so completely corrupt? When an African American is convicted of mugging a yid on the street and gets thrown in jail, he is "obviously guilty". But when it is a yid who gets convicted, he is "obvisouly" being set up by a corrupt secular system.
Why would you assume that this guy was set-up, or that these kids just had it in for the guy? I must assume that you are either VERY naive as to the vicious, predatory perverts that live and work within frum communities (just like everywhere else), or you are probably someone who has to be worried about being accused yourself so creating doubt in the community helps YOU.
33
Jun 24, 2009 at 09:23 PM Anonymous Says:
“ i know the guy personally and he would never do such a thing. He is a reputable guy.
news reports say the two boys are brothers. One of them obviously had some issues if he needed to see a social worker. Perhaps they are trying to get back at him for something.
Everyone should stop judging a person that they dont even know. ”
the 2 boys are my good friends and he was not their social worker
34
Jun 24, 2009 at 10:46 PM Staright Thinker Says:
“ Beats nothing. Now there is at least some punishment and publicity and acknowledgement. Perhaps there IS a problem.
What solution was happening the yiddish'sah way? ”
Cool it.. there is a Yiddishe way. and one that worked perfectly.
when Beis Din was in power. they would actually execute such a guy, (of course only with valid evidence..)
and that would scare all other 'would be' abusers..
35
Jun 24, 2009 at 10:20 PM Anonymous Says:
“ i know the guy personally and he would never do such a thing. He is a reputable guy.
news reports say the two boys are brothers. One of them obviously had some issues if he needed to see a social worker. Perhaps they are trying to get back at him for something.
Everyone should stop judging a person that they dont even know. ”
dont try to discredit these boys by saying ( obviously had some issues if he needed to see a social worker ) we dont know the guy, but you dont know the boys.
practice what you preach
36
Jun 24, 2009 at 09:50 PM farshtei.nisht Says:
Why would the wife stand by him if he's guilty?
37
Jun 24, 2009 at 10:57 PM Loshon Hora Says:
This is so horrible. If it happened or not.
This is so complecated. How would a beis Din have shimush or even understand such shmutz, unless they suffer the same problems or at least went to school for phsycology?
The same could be asked about a jury I guess. The problem is that the Chr..t.ns who believe in the blood libels also have a mythical faith that chas veshalom we all suffer from this ailment. That said it would be pretty difficult to get a fair trial.
However I have heard of cases not in detail, where a beisdin has said one has to suspect although they would'nt give an outright guilty verdict. After that others chased the beisdin, to clear his name, so after all that who would pasken this stuff.
May HakB'H save us, no beis din would want this stuff, and the authorities are sometimes needed.
I wish this wouldn't happen. It may be time for a yoim Tefilah for this inyan, and time to setup a rehab lockup, with kosher food, this may get people to admit B4 they are caught, & get help for the victims & predators.
This alternate lock-up, could be like a mental assylum, where they need signing out, possibly with electronic moniters. It is so sad for all.
38
Jun 24, 2009 at 10:55 PM Zindel Says:
2 years means he will be out in just over a year from now.
Let's hide our kids.
39
Jun 25, 2009 at 06:19 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Cool it.. there is a Yiddishe way. and one that worked perfectly.
when Beis Din was in power. they would actually execute such a guy, (of course only with valid evidence..)
and that would scare all other 'would be' abusers.. ”
where do you get that beis din would execute a pedophile?
40
Jun 25, 2009 at 06:04 AM Anonymous Says:
“ 2 years means he will be out in just over a year from now.
Let's hide our kids. ”
Better yet, before they open the door to let him out, let's hide the KEYS.
41
Jun 25, 2009 at 06:37 AM gutinhimel Says:
The Bais Din should issue a heter to do physical harm (A Mishkanta) to make sure that he could not abuse ony children when he comes out.
42
Jun 25, 2009 at 05:47 AM Anonymous Says:
“ why do all you people think your the judges?? its none of your business! you dont even know if the guy is guilty, let alone what the case is! dont think your so smart! who said jail is the right thing anyway?? dont think your smart by "rendering YOUR verdict" ”
Not enough? He deserves life its no joke as a father of a victim I suffer on a daily ongoing from such an abuser
43
Jun 25, 2009 at 05:37 AM Anonymous Says:
“ up to two years? sorry, that's not enough. ”
yeah it doesn't sound like much but 2 years is no walk in the park, and besides a known child molester doesn't have an easy time in jail!
44
Jun 25, 2009 at 01:44 AM Anonymous Says:
“ So how will JBFCS avoid this problem in the future? ”
Unless there are board complaints, JCFS has no way of knowing what a prospective employee might do. If this guy's record was clean then JCFS should not be pointed to in guilt.
45
Jun 25, 2009 at 12:39 AM Anonymous Says:
And maybe he is innocent ? Can't be ? How many people are released from jail after sitting for 20 years for murder and now they found new evidence that they are not guilty. Let's not jump and judge him we don't know 100s of people supported him how can we know the truth ?
46
Jun 25, 2009 at 12:01 AM Anonymous Says:
“ That is why the law is “beyond reasonable doubt”, not no doubt whatever, only Hashem and the victim know for hundred percent, humans don’t and never will. ”
which law are you reffering to? is it the shulchan urech?
how low have we gone to reffer to the law of the goyim as the law and guidance in our daily lives. I agree there's a problem within our community...but teaming up with the NY TIMEH and all other publication who try to potray our Holy Nation as one as all other nations is a SHANDEH.
47
Jun 24, 2009 at 11:18 PM Staright Thinker Says:
“ "Clearly a bais din wouldve done a better job."
Really? What would they have done? Told him not do it anymore and send him on his merry way to another community where he could molest more kids?
I fully support the use of a beis din in civil matters and minor criminal matters. However, a beis din has no actual authority to do what needs to be done to serious, violent predators in this country. I'll let those with the power to take REAL action handle that stuff. ”
now days Beis Din has NO power besides on Money issues, But if they would then you can be sure that the Dayanim, would do a better job then any Jury, they are highly intelegent and they have a Torah that has no equall companion to back their descions.. The Jury has none.
But, now days we will have to do with the court system ven if its not that perfect. and if someone gets convictid even though he innocent, its a small price to pay for such a strong system..
you can be sure, in the 'reall'times, Beis Din had the right and obligation to fullfill capital punishment. so if you dont know what they would have done, shows that your a unlearned person..
48
Jun 24, 2009 at 11:03 PM Staright Thinker Says:
“ What a joke. If you could find a bais din that is not corrupt you may get a fair trial. Nobody gets a jail term because the boys had it in for him. There needs to be a conviction based on testimony that does not leave a shadow of a doubt. There are guys with the longest peyos and beards who shukkel well and daven the longest amida and are the most ehliche of yidden and they are also vile molesters. They look good on the outside and do lots of chesed but are all rotten inside. Remember that the monsey butcher was an ehrliche upstanding kollel supporting baal tokea maggid shiur. How would the bais din have done a better job? How can you say "Not saying it didn't happen but there is little proof. I know him and he is an erliche yid” You are open the possibility that it could have happened but still vouch for his erlichkeit. ”
silly you! the Monsey butcher is the best proof against you!! since there they had no court intervention, if the court would have gotten involved in that story, Finkel would still be in Buissness.. catching someone mixing up labels, gets him maximum a fine..
And by bashing all the Beis Din's you expose exactly where you stand, it seems like your someone that holds of no Rabbi. so then there is no use about debating you on this. since no logic will ever work with you.
and let me teach you something about our courts. its not perfect. even testimony's that DO leave a shaddow of doubt (..or rather are all fogged up...) can make someone guilty or innocent. so stop with that nonsence.
I dont know the details of this story, but lets not jump and judge him. dont get me wrong., I beleive that even if the court system isnt perfect, and innocent people occasionally get trapped inside, its still the best one around today.. and the innocent People that fall in, are a small price that we pay for the system. its the only thing that will nowdays make a person thimk again before comitting a crime..
49
Jun 25, 2009 at 07:25 AM Anonymous Says:
“ silly you! the Monsey butcher is the best proof against you!! since there they had no court intervention, if the court would have gotten involved in that story, Finkel would still be in Buissness.. catching someone mixing up labels, gets him maximum a fine..
And by bashing all the Beis Din's you expose exactly where you stand, it seems like your someone that holds of no Rabbi. so then there is no use about debating you on this. since no logic will ever work with you.
and let me teach you something about our courts. its not perfect. even testimony's that DO leave a shaddow of doubt (..or rather are all fogged up...) can make someone guilty or innocent. so stop with that nonsence.
I dont know the details of this story, but lets not jump and judge him. dont get me wrong., I beleive that even if the court system isnt perfect, and innocent people occasionally get trapped inside, its still the best one around today.. and the innocent People that fall in, are a small price that we pay for the system. its the only thing that will nowdays make a person thimk again before comitting a crime..
”
He testified that the kids had come on to him.
Do you need more than that?
50
Jun 25, 2009 at 12:49 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Why would the wife stand by him if he's guilty? ”
Amazing question. Did you ever consider the possibility that he might lie to his wife?
51
Jun 25, 2009 at 12:05 AM Anonymous Says:
“ So how will JBFCS avoid this problem in the future? ”
He hasn't worked for them in a long time.
52
Jun 25, 2009 at 07:30 AM Anonymous Says:
who is this person? we all need to be aware in order to stay away!
53
Jun 25, 2009 at 07:49 AM moish Says:
What's going on here? We have a Torah so lets follow it. There it says that a person can only be proven guilty by two kosher eidim in a beis din, these boys to my understanding were not yet bar mitzva, and even if they were they are brothers, and even if they weren't it wasn't a beis din. I'm not saying, however, that we cannot be wary and possibly make measures that he should not be allowed to be near children.
54
Jun 25, 2009 at 08:08 AM Anonymous Says:
“ What's going on here? We have a Torah so lets follow it. There it says that a person can only be proven guilty by two kosher eidim in a beis din, these boys to my understanding were not yet bar mitzva, and even if they were they are brothers, and even if they weren't it wasn't a beis din. I'm not saying, however, that we cannot be wary and possibly make measures that he should not be allowed to be near children.
”
Feel good about yourself, advocating that we keep doing nothing and letting more kids fall victim to these pervs?
Do you feel even better that you have found a way to defend the indefensable behind a thin veneer or frumkeit and torah?
55
Jun 25, 2009 at 08:15 AM PMO Says:
“ now days Beis Din has NO power besides on Money issues, But if they would then you can be sure that the Dayanim, would do a better job then any Jury, they are highly intelegent and they have a Torah that has no equall companion to back their descions.. The Jury has none.
But, now days we will have to do with the court system ven if its not that perfect. and if someone gets convictid even though he innocent, its a small price to pay for such a strong system..
you can be sure, in the 'reall'times, Beis Din had the right and obligation to fullfill capital punishment. so if you dont know what they would have done, shows that your a unlearned person.. ”
I agree with you 100%. However, in this day and age, the beis din has no real authority on these matters.
56
Jun 25, 2009 at 08:16 AM PMO Says:
“ now days Beis Din has NO power besides on Money issues, But if they would then you can be sure that the Dayanim, would do a better job then any Jury, they are highly intelegent and they have a Torah that has no equall companion to back their descions.. The Jury has none.
But, now days we will have to do with the court system ven if its not that perfect. and if someone gets convictid even though he innocent, its a small price to pay for such a strong system..
you can be sure, in the 'reall'times, Beis Din had the right and obligation to fullfill capital punishment. so if you dont know what they would have done, shows that your a unlearned person.. ”
I agree with you 100%. However, in this day and age, the beis din has no real authority on these matters.
57
Jun 25, 2009 at 08:26 AM anonymous Says:
i know the boys and the accused. first everyone should get their facts straight before spreading lies or misinformation. the boys hang around and do try to befriend adults all the time . they seem to have not been given enough attention by their own families. not to blame anyone but in the jewishish circles kids have questions and concerns with very few answers from the right people as it is taboo to talk about certain topics. when caught discussing these topics they are then reprimanded, this alone can cause any child to deny or accuse another person of initiating or doing somthing to cover up the situation. one must be dan lkaf zchus on both sides of the issue.
to those who know everything , this was not a JURY trial it was a judge alone who made the decision. if you ever spent time in a court you would realise that the law system is corrupt and false in that evidence and facts are left out based on constitutional laws made up by people who are not always correct (surely not correct under jewish law). as many lawyers admit it is not who is right or wrong but who can use the law in his favor to get a judgment in his favor.
all said and done many people are bitter about themselves or others and they should try to improve their own conduct first. know yourself and know your children listen and answer. do not make them feel trapped in the ways they go. children have and will continue to say things just not to get in trouble for what they did.
we were not there in this case to see what happened so just be concerned to do the right for you and your families before condemming and judging without knowing.
58
Jun 25, 2009 at 09:35 AM A Says:
“ silly you! the Monsey butcher is the best proof against you!! since there they had no court intervention, if the court would have gotten involved in that story, Finkel would still be in Buissness.. catching someone mixing up labels, gets him maximum a fine..
And by bashing all the Beis Din's you expose exactly where you stand, it seems like your someone that holds of no Rabbi. so then there is no use about debating you on this. since no logic will ever work with you.
and let me teach you something about our courts. its not perfect. even testimony's that DO leave a shaddow of doubt (..or rather are all fogged up...) can make someone guilty or innocent. so stop with that nonsence.
I dont know the details of this story, but lets not jump and judge him. dont get me wrong., I beleive that even if the court system isnt perfect, and innocent people occasionally get trapped inside, its still the best one around today.. and the innocent People that fall in, are a small price that we pay for the system. its the only thing that will nowdays make a person thimk again before comitting a crime..
”
#48 said: "...and the innocent People that fall in, are a small price that we pay for the system...."
What a horrible thing to say. I realize that this happens sometimes but I consider it a tragedy, not a "small price" to pay. I wonder if you would just shrug your shoulders and say such a heartless thing if you or a loved one were innocent but caught in the system.
59
Jun 25, 2009 at 09:45 AM Anonymous Says:
57 you are soooo self righteous! people like yourself are the cause for the 25% dropout rate in our community why don't you jump off a bridge
60
Jun 25, 2009 at 09:22 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Why would the wife stand by him if he's guilty? ”
You're joking, right? If not, go ask all those other wives of molesters why they stay. And ask the wives of thieves and cheaters too.
61
Jun 25, 2009 at 08:55 AM moish Says:
“
Feel good about yourself, advocating that we keep doing nothing and letting more kids fall victim to these pervs?
Do you feel even better that you have found a way to defend the indefensable behind a thin veneer or frumkeit and torah? ”
So you follow the Torah or not? I quoted what is says in the Torah, if you don't like it go complain to G-d! On the other hand, I didn't say taking to court isn't the right thing for true victims, only that he is not guilty in our eyes until proven so acc. To the Torah.
62
Jun 25, 2009 at 08:54 AM Anonymous Says:
“ He was tried, he was convicted, he is guilty and it is everyone's business to know and to be mepharsaim his name and to keep it fresh in everyone's memory so they can keep their kids away from him when he gets out and for the rest of his life.
Only one of his fellow-sicko-perverts would be defending him and yelling that it is no one's business.
He is like poison and wherever he goes for the rest of his life there should be people warning the public to keep their kids away.
On second thought, he is not so much like like poison as he is more like a rabid dog who can destroy an innocent child with one contact. ”
i agree!!
63
Jun 25, 2009 at 09:57 AM josh Says:
“ up to two years? sorry, that's not enough. ”
what makes anybody think they know what 2 years behind bars feel like? why is that not enough? just because the number "2" is a small number, its still "2 years"!!!!!
64
Jun 25, 2009 at 08:52 AM Anonymous Says:
“ So how will JBFCS avoid this problem in the future? ”
his actions dont reflect the JBFCS's negligence. he obviously passed the background check at the time, but now will forever be known as a sex offender.
65
Jun 25, 2009 at 08:49 AM Anonymous Says:
“ i know the boys and the accused. first everyone should get their facts straight before spreading lies or misinformation. the boys hang around and do try to befriend adults all the time . they seem to have not been given enough attention by their own families. not to blame anyone but in the jewishish circles kids have questions and concerns with very few answers from the right people as it is taboo to talk about certain topics. when caught discussing these topics they are then reprimanded, this alone can cause any child to deny or accuse another person of initiating or doing somthing to cover up the situation. one must be dan lkaf zchus on both sides of the issue.
to those who know everything , this was not a JURY trial it was a judge alone who made the decision. if you ever spent time in a court you would realise that the law system is corrupt and false in that evidence and facts are left out based on constitutional laws made up by people who are not always correct (surely not correct under jewish law). as many lawyers admit it is not who is right or wrong but who can use the law in his favor to get a judgment in his favor.
all said and done many people are bitter about themselves or others and they should try to improve their own conduct first. know yourself and know your children listen and answer. do not make them feel trapped in the ways they go. children have and will continue to say things just not to get in trouble for what they did.
we were not there in this case to see what happened so just be concerned to do the right for you and your families before condemming and judging without knowing. ”
Hmmmm......Who to believe???
Four boys accuse him and a judge finds him guilty but an anonymous poster on the internet claims to know that he is innocent.
Tough choice here..........
66
Jun 25, 2009 at 10:13 AM Anonymous Says:
“ his actions dont reflect the JBFCS's negligence. he obviously passed the background check at the time, but now will forever be known as a sex offender. ”
not according to tzadikim like #61 and his ilk.
67
Jun 25, 2009 at 10:11 AM Anonymous Says:
“ So you follow the Torah or not? I quoted what is says in the Torah, if you don't like it go complain to G-d! On the other hand, I didn't say taking to court isn't the right thing for true victims, only that he is not guilty in our eyes until proven so acc. To the Torah.
”
The torah does not say what you claim it says.
68
Jun 25, 2009 at 10:10 AM Anonymous Says:
“ #48 said: "...and the innocent People that fall in, are a small price that we pay for the system...."
What a horrible thing to say. I realize that this happens sometimes but I consider it a tragedy, not a "small price" to pay. I wonder if you would just shrug your shoulders and say such a heartless thing if you or a loved one were innocent but caught in the system. ”
Would you prefer to shut down the whole system?
69
Jun 25, 2009 at 10:08 AM Anonymous Says:
“ The Bais Din should issue a heter to do physical harm (A Mishkanta) to make sure that he could not abuse ony children when he comes out. ”
Physical, which could lead physical-harm, is not the answer unless to save a victim in the middle of the abuse were self-defense is a true consideration. Self-restraint was always the Jewish way, and it worked well for us all theses years.
70
Jun 25, 2009 at 10:50 AM Anonymous Says:
To # 9
He was convicted. Period. WE have the fairest system in the world. You don't go to beis din with a criminal arrest. You go to the police as you would if it was your son. You would probably kill the guy first. Where is the rachmonus for the boys. There should be no rachmonus on the criminal. The Ramban says that kol hamracheim al ho'achzorim soifoi lihyos achzor al horachmonim. This is what happend to you and all the apologists and cryers here.
71
Jun 25, 2009 at 10:38 AM question Says:
Is not a child abuser worst than a ganav?
why ganovim get so many years?
72
Jun 25, 2009 at 10:36 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Physical, which could lead physical-harm, is not the answer unless to save a victim in the middle of the abuse were self-defense is a true consideration. Self-restraint was always the Jewish way, and it worked well for us all theses years. ”
h, yeah, it has worked perfectly. Except of course for the unprotected six year olds in Yudi Kolko's class. And the Ohel children put into the care of Mondrowitz. And and and and.....
I'm mamash getting ill reading how many people couldn't care less how many children are abused and molested, so long as it isn't their kid and no one makes a fuss about it and no one bankrupts the yeshivos after they turned their backs on our children for decades.
73
Jun 25, 2009 at 10:32 AM A Says:
“ Would you prefer to shut down the whole system? ”
Did I say that? I objected to the comment poster #48 said, that it is a "small price" to pay for an innocent to be sent to jail. To reiterate, because you don't seem to have understood what I said in my previous comment: It is no small price, it is a great tragedy when innocent people go to jail. That's all, don't put words in my mouth, don't assume I said something I never said, just read what I wrote and leave it at that.
74
Jun 25, 2009 at 11:21 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Did I say that? I objected to the comment poster #48 said, that it is a "small price" to pay for an innocent to be sent to jail. To reiterate, because you don't seem to have understood what I said in my previous comment: It is no small price, it is a great tragedy when innocent people go to jail. That's all, don't put words in my mouth, don't assume I said something I never said, just read what I wrote and leave it at that. ”
I asked if that is what you would prefer. I didn't say you would prefer it.
My point was that there is no choice but to do the best we can with the tools we have and, sadly, live knowing that we as a society are probably punishing some innocent people at all times.
75
Jun 25, 2009 at 11:19 AM Anonymous #57 Says:
in reply to # 59 and #65
in no way should one resort to judging me or anyone as "sooo rightous" . that does not argue the facts it just shows your lack of knowledge and education to be able to argue an issue on facts instead of misinformation and hearsay. i did not say anyone was innocent or guilty , other than those who make judgments on their feelings instead of knowledge. just as you have no confidence in the bais din option i still maintain and have no confidence in a judge or even a jury , usualy made up of the least knowledgable people they can find, therefore to condemn or side and make any judgment without true knowledge would be foolish .it has been proven in the past where innocents were guilty and guilty later found innocent.
as some say this is the best system in the world it still is not perfect . it is based on laws that are false and surely against torah teachings. a truely educated jew would step back and not try to be the judge and jury without all the facts which unless you or reliable witnesses were there are not one to spread the issue further to discredit the accused or accusor.
as far as the drop out rate is concerened . if parents would tune in better to their children and listen and answer their concerns and direct them to the resources that are out there the children would be better off . drugs and drop out are symptoms of being left out and trying to escape to a different world. parents should be aware what goes on in their childrens lives especially at an early age when help can still work . do not wake up too late , you will have missed the boat
76
Jun 25, 2009 at 12:32 PM Anonymous Says:
“ in reply to # 59 and #65
in no way should one resort to judging me or anyone as "sooo rightous" . that does not argue the facts it just shows your lack of knowledge and education to be able to argue an issue on facts instead of misinformation and hearsay. i did not say anyone was innocent or guilty , other than those who make judgments on their feelings instead of knowledge. just as you have no confidence in the bais din option i still maintain and have no confidence in a judge or even a jury , usualy made up of the least knowledgable people they can find, therefore to condemn or side and make any judgment without true knowledge would be foolish .it has been proven in the past where innocents were guilty and guilty later found innocent.
as some say this is the best system in the world it still is not perfect . it is based on laws that are false and surely against torah teachings. a truely educated jew would step back and not try to be the judge and jury without all the facts which unless you or reliable witnesses were there are not one to spread the issue further to discredit the accused or accusor.
as far as the drop out rate is concerened . if parents would tune in better to their children and listen and answer their concerns and direct them to the resources that are out there the children would be better off . drugs and drop out are symptoms of being left out and trying to escape to a different world. parents should be aware what goes on in their childrens lives especially at an early age when help can still work . do not wake up too late , you will have missed the boat ”
57 75 drugs and drop out are symptoms of our youth seeing that people like yourself care more about their self rightousnes than the wellbeing of our children YOU AND YOUR ATITUDE ARE SENDING KIDS OF THE DERECH you'd do us all a big favour if you jumped off a bridge rather than defend convicted peadophiles! enough is enough unless we all stand up aginst these animals we will continue to see our children desert us.
77
Jun 25, 2009 at 12:06 PM Leo Says:
“ i know the boys and the accused. first everyone should get their facts straight before spreading lies or misinformation. the boys hang around and do try to befriend adults all the time . they seem to have not been given enough attention by their own families. not to blame anyone but in the jewishish circles kids have questions and concerns with very few answers from the right people as it is taboo to talk about certain topics. when caught discussing these topics they are then reprimanded, this alone can cause any child to deny or accuse another person of initiating or doing somthing to cover up the situation. one must be dan lkaf zchus on both sides of the issue.
to those who know everything , this was not a JURY trial it was a judge alone who made the decision. if you ever spent time in a court you would realise that the law system is corrupt and false in that evidence and facts are left out based on constitutional laws made up by people who are not always correct (surely not correct under jewish law). as many lawyers admit it is not who is right or wrong but who can use the law in his favor to get a judgment in his favor.
all said and done many people are bitter about themselves or others and they should try to improve their own conduct first. know yourself and know your children listen and answer. do not make them feel trapped in the ways they go. children have and will continue to say things just not to get in trouble for what they did.
we were not there in this case to see what happened so just be concerned to do the right for you and your families before condemming and judging without knowing. ”
While reading your post I noticed how you twist yourself into a pretzel to cast doubt on the veracity of the children who came forward with the accusations, let me dissect your own writing and then let the reader decided if you live by example.
Your comment “I know the boys and the accused. first everyone should get their facts straight before spreading lies or misinformation. the boys hang around and do try to befriend adults all the time”
What is wrong with boys hanging around Shul or Beth Hamadresh I sure that most parents would rather have their children hang out in a Shul then a Mall or Movie, or around the Street. In the same breath you preach against spreading lies, you insinuate that the children hung around to come-on to adults, how deep in the gutter are you willing to go to defend this person.
Your comment “they seem to have not been given enough attention by their own families. not to blame anyone but in the jewishish circles kids have questions and concerns with very few answers from the right people as it is taboo to talk about certain topics.”
How do you know they did not get attention by their family what is the nexuses between being friendly and not getting attention at home to just unexpectedly make up a story that he molested them.
Your comment ‘to those who know everything, this was not a JURY trial it was a judge alone who made the decision. if you ever spent time in a court you would realise that the law system is corrupt and false in that evidence and facts are left out based on constitutional laws made up by people who are not always correct (surely not correct under jewish law). as many lawyers admit it is not who is right or wrong but who can use the law in his favor to get a judgment in his favor.’
Here again your assertion that is was not a Jury trial actually helps the accusers, the defendant had to wave his right to have a Jury decide the case, furthermore, the claim that the Jury was biased against a Jew just fell to the waste side, and how can you dismiss our Judiciary system as totally corrupt who are you to say that without any study or statistical proof. Moreover, for good measure you throw in, “many lawyers agree admit it is not who is right or wrong” were your citations, sure you could find a lawyer here and there but not even a vocal minority had argued that point. What about dina demalchsa dina, “the law of the land is the law” that signal line help our ancestors survive diaspora all theses years.
Your comment “know yourself and know your children listen and answer. do not make them feel trapped in the ways they go.”
Now you saying we should listen to our children isn’t this a contradiction to your whole post, the parents of theses four children listened to them and went and reported to the police so what is your problem.
78
Jun 25, 2009 at 12:03 PM Anonymous Says:
To 75:
I will not debate the issue of guilt or innocense. They proven in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt. It was scrutinized by the jury and then by the judge. Judges have routinely thrown out cases before even the defense begins because the facts are too shallow..
However, drugs or dropout is not due to parents not listening. All children are born to do good and desire to do so. If a child is molested, he rebels against the system because it has failed him. It is a death blow to who he is especially in our society where people always look to defend the criminal at all costs. The child drops out or worse goes against the entire religious system because of what happened to him. This is a normal reaction of a victim. Compound that with our system where our society shows rachmonus for the offender. Our thoughts should always be with the victim and not blame or fault him. NEVER BLAME THE VICTIM! The perv has made his bed and I couldn't care less. We need to feel sorry for his family and children, but the blame should be on him for their troubles.
79
Jun 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM Anonymous Says:
“ in reply to # 59 and #65
in no way should one resort to judging me or anyone as "sooo rightous" . that does not argue the facts it just shows your lack of knowledge and education to be able to argue an issue on facts instead of misinformation and hearsay. i did not say anyone was innocent or guilty , other than those who make judgments on their feelings instead of knowledge. just as you have no confidence in the bais din option i still maintain and have no confidence in a judge or even a jury , usualy made up of the least knowledgable people they can find, therefore to condemn or side and make any judgment without true knowledge would be foolish .it has been proven in the past where innocents were guilty and guilty later found innocent.
as some say this is the best system in the world it still is not perfect . it is based on laws that are false and surely against torah teachings. a truely educated jew would step back and not try to be the judge and jury without all the facts which unless you or reliable witnesses were there are not one to spread the issue further to discredit the accused or accusor.
as far as the drop out rate is concerened . if parents would tune in better to their children and listen and answer their concerns and direct them to the resources that are out there the children would be better off . drugs and drop out are symptoms of being left out and trying to escape to a different world. parents should be aware what goes on in their childrens lives especially at an early age when help can still work . do not wake up too late , you will have missed the boat ”
Nice speech (although a little long-winded) but it has nothing do with reality.
This don't judge anybody "stuff" is a re-cycled hippie cop-out from 40 years ago. It has created a society in which there is no longer a concept of personal responsibility and no concept of societal responsibility.
Drug use? No Problem! Who are we to judge?
Casual sex? No Problem! Who are we to judge?
Single motherhood? No Problem! Who are we to judge?
Gay Marriage? No Problem! Who are we to judge?
Pedophilia? No Problem! Who are we to judge?
Know where we are headed?
Want to marry your pet? No Problem! Who are we to judge?
Want to marry your sibling? No Problem! Who are we to judge?
Its all a cop-out to avoid facing the harsh realities of life by people who are afraid to face the fact that they are rotten, selfish, spoiled and putrid poor excuses for human beings who really couldn't care less if a child is molested or raped, so long as it doesn't interfere with their Monday Night Football.
Oh, I'm sorry, your all frum. So long as it doesn't interfere with their arbes freitig by nacht.
80
Jun 25, 2009 at 11:58 AM tzoorba Says:
“ The torah does not say what you claim it says. ”
Moish is correct. What do you think it says?
81
Jun 25, 2009 at 11:51 AM Anonymous Says:
I do not know if he is innocent or guilty but right now I am thinking of my kid in school and how to protect him in the future. I do not know the name of this person but since I do not, I could in the future, accidently introduce one of my kids to this person, not knowing his name. His name should be publiciized for the protection of the children!! NOT ONLY MINE!!
82
Jun 25, 2009 at 11:46 AM to #57 Says:
If this pervert has a judge decide, not a jury, it's because he CHOSE not to have a jury hear the case! So don't go screaming no fair if you don't get the verdict you want! There are very few do-overs in the court system, unless it is proved that the case was not handled properly.
The guy was found guilty. If he was a goy would you be screaming for the death penalty for violating a Jewish child? You betcha! So stop being hypocritical just because he's a Yid & possibly a friend of yours (although I wouldn't be too proud of that if I were you!)
83
Jun 25, 2009 at 11:42 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Why was this not adjudicated in Bais din where the alleged molester could get a fair trial. What do we know about these boys? Maybe they had it in for this guy. Clearly a bais din wouldve done a better job. Not saying it didn't happen but there is little proof. I know him and he is an erliche yid ”
Beis Din's can only try civil cases
84
Jun 25, 2009 at 12:45 PM Satmar Man Says:
First of all, we need to admit to ourselves that there is a problem in our communities. No, not greater than in other communities, but it is here, and we must deal with it. Burying our heads in the sand with false belief that our people are immune from these horrible behaviors is both disrespectful to the true victims of these abusess, and is not helpful in finding long-term solutions to protect our people from this.
Therefore, we need to first announce: "Yes, we have pedophiles, pederasts and other perverts in our midst."
Once we admit this, then we can begin to make sure all around us know that we could not tolerate this behavior from friends, associates, fellow shul members, etc., The belief that one can do this and get away with it, or, even if he is caught, just get a slap on the wrist and not lose his place in our community causes those with the misguided/evil/disgusting desire to pursue their predilection, rather than fight against it.
Everyone should grow up KNOWING that if one commits behaviors like this, he/she will be drummed out of our community, and banished and humiliated, etc., the consequences will be strong enough, in many, to outweigh the nasty desire which is motivating him.
For those for whom it is not strong enough of a deterrent:
Stop looking the other way.
Post mashgichim in every mikvah from opening to closing.
Prohibit any teacher/melamed/rebbe from being alone in a classroom, office or home with a child.
Even during school, when the bell rings, have the teacher get up, open the door, and stand by the door in the hallway. This is the procedure in many school districts. It is to protect both the kids, and to protect the teachers from false accusations.
We need to study the procedures put into effect by the secular community to stop these behaviors.
BUT... we must also create an environment, where a victim will feel safe and comfortable to come to report such abuse when it does slip though our preventive measures. This begins with BELIEVING THE VICTIM... but investigating thoroughly to make sure an innocent man's or woman's life is not destroyed by a false accusation.
But it continues into not mistreating the victim later in life. If we discriminate against victims in the shidduch world, we are preventing them from reporting it to begin with. We should educate people that a person who was molested as a child was not at fault and it should not stand in his/her way of getting a good shidduch.
85
Jun 25, 2009 at 01:46 PM yiddishe bubby Says:
TWO YEARS!!!!! Charley your asleep at the wheel, making deals, and not being accountable to the public that you work for. Let's remember this at the next election.
86
Jun 25, 2009 at 03:02 PM Anonymous Says:
“ So you follow the Torah or not? I quoted what is says in the Torah, if you don't like it go complain to G-d! On the other hand, I didn't say taking to court isn't the right thing for true victims, only that he is not guilty in our eyes until proven so acc. To the Torah.
”
Read what the Rashba says about "Tikkun Olam" and why it is permitted to go to the authorities to turn in sexual molesters who are "rodfim". The Rashba states that in his day, and even more so in our day, if we followed the letter of the law as stated in the Torah sh'bichtav, we would never be able to convict any violent criminals. We would thus be endangering ourselves and our families, as well as the entire civilization. That's why the Sages were mettaken to go to the police in the case of a "rodef", where all means can and must be used to stop him. THAT'S what the Torah says.
87
Jun 25, 2009 at 02:40 PM Anonymous Says:
“ To # 9
He was convicted. Period. WE have the fairest system in the world. You don't go to beis din with a criminal arrest. You go to the police as you would if it was your son. You would probably kill the guy first. Where is the rachmonus for the boys. There should be no rachmonus on the criminal. The Ramban says that kol hamracheim al ho'achzorim soifoi lihyos achzor al horachmonim. This is what happend to you and all the apologists and cryers here. ”
Brilliant response. We need more people like you.
88
Jun 25, 2009 at 05:52 PM Anonymous Says:
“ First of all, we need to admit to ourselves that there is a problem in our communities. No, not greater than in other communities, but it is here, and we must deal with it. Burying our heads in the sand with false belief that our people are immune from these horrible behaviors is both disrespectful to the true victims of these abusess, and is not helpful in finding long-term solutions to protect our people from this.
Therefore, we need to first announce: "Yes, we have pedophiles, pederasts and other perverts in our midst."
Once we admit this, then we can begin to make sure all around us know that we could not tolerate this behavior from friends, associates, fellow shul members, etc., The belief that one can do this and get away with it, or, even if he is caught, just get a slap on the wrist and not lose his place in our community causes those with the misguided/evil/disgusting desire to pursue their predilection, rather than fight against it.
Everyone should grow up KNOWING that if one commits behaviors like this, he/she will be drummed out of our community, and banished and humiliated, etc., the consequences will be strong enough, in many, to outweigh the nasty desire which is motivating him.
For those for whom it is not strong enough of a deterrent:
Stop looking the other way.
Post mashgichim in every mikvah from opening to closing.
Prohibit any teacher/melamed/rebbe from being alone in a classroom, office or home with a child.
Even during school, when the bell rings, have the teacher get up, open the door, and stand by the door in the hallway. This is the procedure in many school districts. It is to protect both the kids, and to protect the teachers from false accusations.
We need to study the procedures put into effect by the secular community to stop these behaviors.
BUT... we must also create an environment, where a victim will feel safe and comfortable to come to report such abuse when it does slip though our preventive measures. This begins with BELIEVING THE VICTIM... but investigating thoroughly to make sure an innocent man's or woman's life is not destroyed by a false accusation.
But it continues into not mistreating the victim later in life. If we discriminate against victims in the shidduch world, we are preventing them from reporting it to begin with. We should educate people that a person who was molested as a child was not at fault and it should not stand in his/her way of getting a good shidduch.
”
Thank you, Satmar Man.
If all Chareidim felt like you do, we could stop this. I especially liked the respect you show the victim. You are a caring man.
89
Jun 25, 2009 at 05:50 PM moish Says:
“ Read what the Rashba says about "Tikkun Olam" and why it is permitted to go to the authorities to turn in sexual molesters who are "rodfim". The Rashba states that in his day, and even more so in our day, if we followed the letter of the law as stated in the Torah sh'bichtav, we would never be able to convict any violent criminals. We would thus be endangering ourselves and our families, as well as the entire civilization. That's why the Sages were mettaken to go to the police in the case of a "rodef", where all means can and must be used to stop him. THAT'S what the Torah says. ”
Thanks, assuming that all you have written is correct, you have just backed up the notion I suggested that a victim who knows the truth may take his molester to court, and that doesn't take away the fact that to us, that do not and cannot know the truth, the man has not been proven guilty until there is a kosher eidus; it is what the torah says and there is nothing anyone can say to change that.
90
Jun 25, 2009 at 05:41 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Read what the Rashba says about "Tikkun Olam" and why it is permitted to go to the authorities to turn in sexual molesters who are "rodfim". The Rashba states that in his day, and even more so in our day, if we followed the letter of the law as stated in the Torah sh'bichtav, we would never be able to convict any violent criminals. We would thus be endangering ourselves and our families, as well as the entire civilization. That's why the Sages were mettaken to go to the police in the case of a "rodef", where all means can and must be used to stop him. THAT'S what the Torah says. ”
Where is that Rashba and what EXACTLY is a rodef for which the TORAH says? You probably have no idea how the authorities treated Jewish criminals in the Rashba's times. Have you ever heard of Oshitz? Eighty men women and children were tortured and then made to run the gauntlet. Some have had it too good that they have already forgotten our past. Yes the authorities in these United States are a far cry from the authorities of yesteryear, but please don’t make them tzadikim either.
91
Jun 25, 2009 at 07:38 PM Anonymous Says:
why would a boy torcher himself in court explaining every thing for nothing obviosly he was hurt and encoreged that this is the right thing to do to save others
92
Jun 25, 2009 at 07:45 PM Anonymous Says:
"Why was this not adjudicated in Bais din where the alleged molester could get a fair trial. What do we know about these boys? Maybe they had it in for this guy. Clearly a bais din wouldve done a better job. Not saying it didn't happen but there is little proof."
As usual it's impossible to tell crazy fundamentalism from spoof, though this one sounds real.
93
Jun 25, 2009 at 07:55 PM Anonymous Says:
"Cool it.. there is a Yiddishe way. and one that worked perfectly.
when Beis Din was in power. they would actually execute such a guy, "
Yeah, right. Unless his father had a lot of money.
94
Jun 25, 2009 at 07:59 PM Anonymous Says:
"But if they would then you can be sure that the Dayanim, would do a better job then any Jury, they are highly intelegent and they have a Torah that has no equall companion to back their descions.. The Jury has none."
You know, if someone would have said this even five years ago, they'd obviously be naive but after observing the same issue handled with such ineptitude time after time, someone really has to be delusional to believe this.
95
Jun 25, 2009 at 10:27 PM Anonymous Says:
Which should worry us more - explaining after 120 years why we sent a child molestor into the hands of the American legal system or why we did nothing to stop pedophilia in our communities and blamed our inaction on the ratzon haborah?
96
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:21 AM Anonymous Says:
“ up to two years? sorry, that's not enough. ”
they should throw away the key