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Jerusalem - Mass Police Force, Vow 'zero tolerance' Against Charedi Violence |
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Police chase orthodox jews through the street during a protest against a public car park / Reuters
The ultra Orthodox community's protest is expected to climax at 7 pm, with tens of thousands of people arriving for a mass prayer on Bar Ilan Road.
Two weeks ago, a police officer was hit and injured by a stone during violent clashes between haredi protestors and police forces following the opening of the Safra parking lot near the city hall. Five additional policemen were hurt by other objects hurled at them. The protestors threw dirty diapers and bottles and called the police "Nazis".
On Thursday, the court approved the opening of an alternative location – the Karta parking lot – prompting the haredi community to renew their protest.
Hundreds of police officers are expected to deploy in the points of friction Friday evening focusing on Bar Ilan Road. "We estimate that there will be no violent riots," a police official said, "but we are preparing for such a possibility.
"As long as the protest is legitimate and organized we will allow them to hold it, but the moment the riots turn violent we will show zero tolerance," the police official threatened.
The seculars in Jerusalem are also planning a response with a protest expected to be held near the Karta parking lot on Saturday afternoon. The police have approved the participation of 1,000 people, and are preparing for possible clashes with haredi protestors.
In any event, the police promised that the parking lot would remain open. "No one will prevent its opening," vowed a police source.
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Read Comments (73) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 26, 2009 at 09:46 AM Jewish Observer Says:
Any violence should be given an equal and opposite reaction. When adrenaline starts pumping and superhuman strength gets unleashed, it's never pretty. Hopefully the chareidi "Shabbos-honor" protesters make a kiddush Hashem, instead of another excuse to riot using Shabbos as their excuse.
2
Jun 26, 2009 at 09:53 AM Anonymous Says:
Looks like Israel and Iran have more in common than we think
Hey maybe Achmidjad is right it is the zionst that are fighting the prostesters in Iran
3
Jun 26, 2009 at 09:53 AM Izzy Says:
Israel is a democracy they have a right tor protest but not riot. If they do riot they should be prosecuted to the full extend of the law.
4
Jun 26, 2009 at 09:48 AM Velvel Says:
The demonstrations should be against those frum people that didn't vote for the only Shomer Shabbos candidate in the last elections.
What does this chiloni mayor know about Shabbos? It's not his fault.
He is mayor today only because of our indifference (and dumb Machlokkes).
WE put him in office. By What right are we demonstrating now?
Let's put it very bluntly. Those of us Frum Yerushalmis who didn't bother to get out and vote ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHILLUL SHABBOS.
All the screaming "Shabbos, Shabbos" today will not change this sad fact.
5
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:02 AM botomline Says:
israel is a facist dictarorship why dont people have a rigth to protest and they call israel a `democracy`...
6
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:02 AM power up Says:
The zero tolerance policy is exactly what's needed, there's no heter for violance, and any violance is a grave chillul hashem, I'm not sure what's worse, chillul shabos from a tinuk shenishba, or chillul hashem from frum yiden.
7
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:01 AM Anonymous Says:
Good picture. Shows how violent the police are.
Oh, they did not mean they will tolerate police violence did they?
8
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:01 AM Dag Says:
Violence is unacceptable by protestors on EITHER side and needs to be dealt with forcefully. Realize that people around the world will compare the Chartedi protest to the secular protest. This is an opportunity to make a great Kiddush Hashem, or C’V a huge Chilul Hashem.
9
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:00 AM Anonymous Says:
why does the wrold only condemn iran for brutuly treating protesters when israeli goverment is no better
10
Jun 26, 2009 at 09:58 AM Moshe2 Says:
Well there is nothing wrong if they open a parking lot on shabbos what do the jews care they are not using it.
11
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:17 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Israel is a democracy they have a right tor protest but not riot. If they do riot they should be prosecuted to the full extend of the law. ”
I see many arguments here that Israel is not a democracy, if you don’t believe in the democracy then you should not even have the right to protests it is about time that the Government needs to deal harshly with anyone who destroys property or acts violently.
12
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:38 AM Anonymous Says:
“ israel is a facist dictarorship why dont people have a rigth to protest and they call israel a `democracy`... ”
They don’t have a right to destroy property, throw dirty diapers, and be disrespectful of law enforcement. If blacks do the same here you would have a total different view.
13
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:33 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Violence is unacceptable by protestors on EITHER side and needs to be dealt with forcefully. Realize that people around the world will compare the Chartedi protest to the secular protest. This is an opportunity to make a great Kiddush Hashem, or C’V a huge Chilul Hashem. ”
Either side? Who is throwing rocks? Not the guy in the car
14
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:32 AM voter Says:
“ The demonstrations should be against those frum people that didn't vote for the only Shomer Shabbos candidate in the last elections.
What does this chiloni mayor know about Shabbos? It's not his fault.
He is mayor today only because of our indifference (and dumb Machlokkes).
WE put him in office. By What right are we demonstrating now?
Let's put it very bluntly. Those of us Frum Yerushalmis who didn't bother to get out and vote ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHILLUL SHABBOS.
All the screaming "Shabbos, Shabbos" today will not change this sad fact.
”
beautifully said. stones should be thrown in every house that didn't vote not at people that don't have a clue what mean SHABBOS KODESH and those that did vote but due to Machlokes split the vote are even worse. SHAME ON YOU
15
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:31 AM Anonymous Says:
“ why does the wrold only condemn iran for brutuly treating protesters when israeli goverment is no better ”
Aren’t you the same guy who went to Iran to deny the Holocaust and protested against the existences of the State Of Israel, nobody cares what your views are,
16
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:28 AM yossi Says:
Chareidi jews never got scared and never will from police officers when it comes to chill shabbos....They always got their way when it came to shabbos kodesh....We all pray that the orthodox should prevail and the zionists will fail...
17
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:25 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Well there is nothing wrong if they open a parking lot on shabbos what do the jews care they are not using it. ”
Yerushalayim Ein Hefker!! how can u say that "what do we care" its our country and our laws the laws of the torah we will protect and fight for it!
18
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:24 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Good picture. Shows how violent the police are.
Oh, they did not mean they will tolerate police violence did they? ”
Did you lose your eye site I see hooligan running from the police, here if you see someone running from the police you expect the police to do whatever they need to do even deathly force to take them down why not in Israel at least they should start taser them .
19
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:58 AM Anonymous Says:
“ israel is a facist dictarorship why dont people have a rigth to protest and they call israel a `democracy`... ”
Can't you read? They will allow protests and demonstrations but not violence and destruction. Just like every civilized country.
20
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:57 AM Anonymous Says:
Wow! This is going to be wild!
21
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:56 AM Moishe Says:
“ Good picture. Shows how violent the police are.
Oh, they did not mean they will tolerate police violence did they? ”
Cops hands are empty
22
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:55 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Did you lose your eye site I see hooligan running from the police, here if you see someone running from the police you expect the police to do whatever they need to do even deathly force to take them down why not in Israel at least they should start taser them . ”
Did you just show your prejudice? all I see in the picture is a yerushalmi running in panic from a police offiecr who seems ready to do him harm. You seem to think a yerushalmi is a hooligan.
23
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:54 AM Anonymous Says:
What a wonderful photo of yichud and ahavas yisrel at work. The police should refrain from provoking these lunatics who engage in violence but if they break the law they should forcefully and firmly respond just like they would with any other criminal. Hopefully, the protests will be peaceful.
24
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:54 AM jancsi Says:
all those who condemn the police are mindless robots they permit themselfs everything but not to others those hareidim who protest violently are tottal failures in this world and they try to vent all their frustrations on us all, those rabbis who brain wash them are just as responsible as those protesters who are violent they should be held responsible also sitting and learning torah isnt an excuse for their irresponsible behaviour if they would be productive in sociaty they wouldnt destroy property they would value it
25
Jun 26, 2009 at 10:42 AM Anonymous Says:
“ The zero tolerance policy is exactly what's needed, there's no heter for violance, and any violance is a grave chillul hashem, I'm not sure what's worse, chillul shabos from a tinuk shenishba, or chillul hashem from frum yiden. ”
It is highly unlikely that you can call a jew living in Yerushalayim a tinok shenishba.
26
Jun 26, 2009 at 11:08 AM Anonymous Says:
“ beautifully said. stones should be thrown in every house that didn't vote not at people that don't have a clue what mean SHABBOS KODESH and those that did vote but due to Machlokes split the vote are even worse. SHAME ON YOU ”
Oh yes this is what democracy is all about you guys are losing it
27
Jun 26, 2009 at 11:12 AM RJ Says:
I find it interesting that all of a sudden Charedim are such champions of democracy and the right to freedom of expression. Isn't the Charedi philosophy that in a perfect world Israel would be a theocracy with no freedom of expression at all?
28
Jun 26, 2009 at 11:25 AM Loshon Hora Says:
Like Iran unarmed protesters. [lehavdil]
29
Jun 26, 2009 at 11:15 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Did you just show your prejudice? all I see in the picture is a yerushalmi running in panic from a police offiecr who seems ready to do him harm. You seem to think a yerushalmi is a hooligan. ”
You are totally disingenuous let me ask you if you see here a police chase at 100 mph do you say the same idiotic answer for sure no that guy is a bum but your guy here is a zadik running for the evil police.
30
Jun 26, 2009 at 11:29 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I find it interesting that all of a sudden Charedim are such champions of democracy and the right to freedom of expression. Isn't the Charedi philosophy that in a perfect world Israel would be a theocracy with no freedom of expression at all? ”
They are not real Charedim, they are a bunch rightwing zealots who were during the Beth Hamikdash burned down the food storages so we will need to fight, yea are history is full of extreme zealots.
If it were up to Millhouse and gang, they would do whatever to put forward their views
31
Jun 26, 2009 at 11:29 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Did you just show your prejudice? all I see in the picture is a yerushalmi running in panic from a police offiecr who seems ready to do him harm. You seem to think a yerushalmi is a hooligan. ”
You mean they're not?
32
Jun 26, 2009 at 11:32 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Like Iran unarmed protesters. [lehavdil] ”
i did not see in Iran throwing diapers with excrement and rocks
33
Jun 26, 2009 at 11:37 AM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ Did you lose your eye site I see hooligan running from the police, here if you see someone running from the police you expect the police to do whatever they need to do even deathly force to take them down why not in Israel at least they should start taser them . ”
Nowhere in the U.S. are police allowed to use deadly force to aprehend a fleeing suspect unless he represents a physical threat to them or others. The police have to tackle him manually. If he outruns them he gets away, although he can almost always be tracked down and arrested later. The use of non-lethal force, such as a Taser, in such a case may vary with jurisdiction, but it is my impession that it, too, is not generally permitted. The almost universal rule is that you have to catch the perp with your hands.
34
Jun 26, 2009 at 12:13 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Did you lose your eye site I see hooligan running from the police, here if you see someone running from the police you expect the police to do whatever they need to do even deathly force to take them down why not in Israel at least they should start taser them . ”
What?!?! Where do you expect the police to use "deathly force" to stop someone running away from them? Where do you live, Iran?!
35
Jun 26, 2009 at 12:11 PM Milhouse Says:
“ You are totally disingenuous let me ask you if you see here a police chase at 100 mph do you say the same idiotic answer for sure no that guy is a bum but your guy here is a zadik running for the evil police. ”
Yes, that's exactly right. When you see a sheigetz being chased, it's reasonable to assume he's done something wrong. When you see an erlicher yid being chased, not only is there no reason to assume he's done anything wrong, but you also have the duty to judge him lechaf zechus.
36
Jun 26, 2009 at 12:09 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Either side? Who is throwing rocks? Not the guy in the car ”
Are you kidding? Chilonim are far more violent than any religious people.
37
Jun 26, 2009 at 12:08 PM Milhouse Says:
“ I see many arguments here that Israel is not a democracy, if you don’t believe in the democracy then you should not even have the right to protests it is about time that the Government needs to deal harshly with anyone who destroys property or acts violently. ”
What does what you believe have to do with what rights you have?
38
Jun 26, 2009 at 12:06 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ Good picture. Shows how violent the police are.
Oh, they did not mean they will tolerate police violence did they? ”
Police are authorized to use force to disburse a crowd that refuses to obey a lawful order to disburse, but only such force as is necessary to enforce their order. This would inlcude things from coordinated pushing to fire hoses and tear gas. Force is used against indivuals only when the indivdual offers violence against a police officer or other person or when the individual resists lawful arrest.
39
Jun 26, 2009 at 12:01 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ Good picture. Shows how violent the police are.
Oh, they did not mean they will tolerate police violence did they? ”
The picture just shows two men running. Neither one seems to be offering violence. The Yerushalmi is not throwing stones and the Policeman is not brandishing a weapon.
40
Jun 26, 2009 at 11:54 AM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ Good picture. Shows how violent the police are.
Oh, they did not mean they will tolerate police violence did they? ”
There is a psychological test called "Thematic Aperception Test" in which the subject is show an picture and asked to describe what is happening in it. As is the case on this blog, subjects use their personal feelings, experiences and prejudices to interpret what is a simple picture. In the case here, we have a picture of two men running, one of whom is wearing a uniform and one wearing Yerushalmi levush . If you think the protesters are wrong then you see a "hooligan trying to escape from the police. If you are for the protesters, you see "an innocent Jew running for his life from a stormtrooper". Same picture.
41
Jun 26, 2009 at 11:49 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Well there is nothing wrong if they open a parking lot on shabbos what do the jews care they are not using it. ”
as bad as the police in israel are you cant compare to iran which killed 20 civllians
42
Jun 26, 2009 at 12:16 PM Anonymous Says:
Anyone else notice the irony in this Shabbos being Parshas Korach? When will we ever learn that machlokes between "Breeder Yiden" is the source of so much tzaros and chillul hashem. How do we expect the non-frum jew to respect us if we ourselves don't respect each other. If we take a step back and see how we look to them, how we look to ourselves, perhaps we would realize that some of the things we do just increase the animosity and the hate. Some of the biggest and best Hasidic sects can't even get along with themselves. There's so much division due purley to gashmiasdik reasons like power and money, divisions that lead to so many machlokesin. The bottom line is, we all have to learn (myself included) to be a little more tolerant. More tolerant of other frum yiden, more tolerant of non-frum yiden, more tolerant of people, period. This doesn't mean we should lower our standards or we should allow people to step on us. We just need to remember "V'ahavta L'Reiacha Kamocha - Zeh Klal Gadol Batorah". We need to work on ourselves when it comes to the way we treat other people.
I once heard a beautiful vort told over from the Bluzhever Rebbe zt"l. It says in the gemara, (forgive me if I misquote it slightly) "Hakoveah Makom L'Tefilahso, Elokay Avraham B'Ezro" If someone establishes a makom kevuah for his davening, then the g-d of Avraham will help him. Asks, the Bluzhever Rebbe, why does it bedavka say Avraham, why not say "Elokay Avos". He answers that the message is that Hashem is teaching us not only the importance of being koveah a makom l'tefillah but how to do it. Hashem is telling us, keep in mind that noone was greater at chesed than Avraham Avinu. If Avraham Avinu walked into shul and saw someone sitting in his seat, would he go over and tell that person to get out of his seat because its his makom kevuah? Obviously not! Makom Kevuah is indeed important, but not at the expense of improperly treating our "Breeder Yiden".
Don't get me wrong. I am not comparing makom kevuah to chillul shabbos. Chas V'Sholom. However, we have to stop for a minute and think. What are we trying to accomplish here. Are we just trying to stop chillul shabbos in our backyard by any means possible or are we interested in trying to be mekadesh shem shamayim by increasing the awareness of Shabbos, by trying to impress upon our fellow jews the beauty and importance of Shabbos. If its the former, then by all means go ahead, make all the demonstrations and protests you can, even be violent if necessary since your just out to accomplish the simple goal of shutting down a parking lot by any means possible. If however its the latter, then again by all means demonstrate and protest the chilul shabbos, you have not only the right, but the obligation to do so. However it should be done in a respectful and tolerant fashion. By trying to protect shabbos in the right way we can only lead others to the conclusion that indeed it is something worth protecting. That can hopefully lead to them considering what it is that they are missing out on. What is it about this wonderful shabbos that is so worth protecting. I want to be a part of that.
Good Shabbos to all
43
Jun 26, 2009 at 11:50 AM Anonymous Says:
“ They are not real Charedim, they are a bunch rightwing zealots who were during the Beth Hamikdash burned down the food storages so we will need to fight, yea are history is full of extreme zealots.
If it were up to Millhouse and gang, they would do whatever to put forward their views
”
Who r u 2 decide what they r? R' Eliyashiv Shlita said every1 should join peacefully.
44
Jun 26, 2009 at 12:51 PM Avi Says:
“ Who r u 2 decide what they r? R' Eliyashiv Shlita said every1 should join peacefully. ”
The key word there is "PEACEFULLY"!!!! When did throwing rocks and dirty diapers and inciting crowds considered peaceful? If they say some tehillim, maybe have a person stand up and give a speech that, according to his opinion, it is against the ideals of jews to open a parking lot on shabbos, fine. This is what R' Eliyashuv meant. NOT TO THROW ROCKS AND INCITE THE CROWD AND ACT LIKE A BUNCH OF PALESTINIAN HOODLUMS!
45
Jun 26, 2009 at 12:47 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Who r u 2 decide what they r? R' Eliyashiv Shlita said every1 should join peacefully. ”
You know that during the during the Beth Hamikdash zealots had Rabbis too, any Rabbi who encourages violence is not a Rabbi in my eyes,
Sure there are a lot Millhouse's, but they are not Rabbis. Thank God for that, we Jews know who are for real or he is not
46
Jun 26, 2009 at 12:30 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Are you kidding? Chilonim are far more violent than any religious people. ”
Neither hareidim or chilonim are intrinsically prone to violent behavior although the hareidim seem to feel that violence is sometimes justified if done in the name of protecting the sanctity of shabbos or preventing another jew from violating halacha. Indeed, we have had that type of insane view posted here as well although clearly by a tiny percentage of readers. Most jew recognize that we cannot forcibly coerce observance of torah and mitzvot among fellow jews and attempting to do so would put us at the same level of those who tortured jews in the inquisition to make them renounce yiddeshkeit.
47
Jun 26, 2009 at 12:27 PM AMG Says:
If these none observant jews do not shop they will desacrate shobbos elsewhere if one is concerned that jews are not observant he should make himself available to teach them torah there is great thirst for torah knowelge in the general jewish community the only thing you are accomplishing with demanstrations is that you are making sure they mazidim
48
Jun 26, 2009 at 02:42 PM Anonymous Says:
I'm sure you won't post this, but it seems to me that we're really in ikvisa di'misheecha, looks likes a lot of your posters wish they weren't born to religious parents, their constant bashing of the frum, and worse, their constant defending of sinners & anti torah & anti hashem people, indicate that they can't stand the fact that after thousands of years B"H there are still those who want to live only according to the torah without distorting what the torah says or completely ignoring it. just as these people ask if its really shabbos the protesters care about, they should ask themselves if its really these protests they don't like or is it that they can't stand people who strictly observe the torah without changing it to accomidate their personal desires. soon moshiach will come & then all the chilonim will become ultra orthodox, they are truly tinokos shenishbiu, however all of these posters I'm afraid don't fit into this catagory. please do teshvah quickly & don't worry so much about everyone elses chillul hashem, first see to it that you really believe in hashem and want to be part of his am hanivchar. I hope this gets posted because it will be an awakening call for a lot of people. good shabbos
49
Jun 26, 2009 at 03:04 PM Anonymous Says:
“ They are not real Charedim, they are a bunch rightwing zealots who were during the Beth Hamikdash burned down the food storages so we will need to fight, yea are history is full of extreme zealots.
If it were up to Millhouse and gang, they would do whatever to put forward their views
”
Actually you are wrong, it was a bunch of moderna who thought they knew better that the gedolim of that time. They insisted that the rabonim were misinformed and that is who burned the warehouses of food.
50
Jun 26, 2009 at 02:20 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Neither hareidim or chilonim are intrinsically prone to violent behavior although the hareidim seem to feel that violence is sometimes justified if done in the name of protecting the sanctity of shabbos or preventing another jew from violating halacha. Indeed, we have had that type of insane view posted here as well although clearly by a tiny percentage of readers. Most jew recognize that we cannot forcibly coerce observance of torah and mitzvot among fellow jews and attempting to do so would put us at the same level of those who tortured jews in the inquisition to make them renounce yiddeshkeit. ”
Chilonim are FAR more prone to violent behavior. And many seem to feel that violence is justified if done in the name of protecting their sacred "democracy" and "freedom from religion".
51
Jun 26, 2009 at 02:19 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Neither hareidim or chilonim are intrinsically prone to violent behavior although the hareidim seem to feel that violence is sometimes justified if done in the name of protecting the sanctity of shabbos or preventing another jew from violating halacha. Indeed, we have had that type of insane view posted here as well although clearly by a tiny percentage of readers. Most jew recognize that we cannot forcibly coerce observance of torah and mitzvot among fellow jews and attempting to do so would put us at the same level of those who tortured jews in the inquisition to make them renounce yiddeshkeit. ”
Why would it do that? Do you think yiddishkeit and Christianity are equal?! Those who try to take yidden away from Hashem are equally wrong whatever methods they use, because their goal is wrong; it makes no difference whether they use torture or sweet words. It's true that right now we don't usually have the power to coerce bservance of torah and mitzvot among fellow jews, but surely that is why we pray three times a day to get that power. What is it that you mean when you say "hoshivo shofteinu kevorishono"?
52
Jun 26, 2009 at 02:10 PM Milhouse Says:
“ The key word there is "PEACEFULLY"!!!! When did throwing rocks and dirty diapers and inciting crowds considered peaceful? If they say some tehillim, maybe have a person stand up and give a speech that, according to his opinion, it is against the ideals of jews to open a parking lot on shabbos, fine. This is what R' Eliyashuv meant. NOT TO THROW ROCKS AND INCITE THE CROWD AND ACT LIKE A BUNCH OF PALESTINIAN HOODLUMS!
”
So who is doing any of those things? What have those things got to do with the thousands of protesters?
53
Jun 26, 2009 at 01:38 PM PMO Says:
“ Did you just show your prejudice? all I see in the picture is a yerushalmi running in panic from a police offiecr who seems ready to do him harm. You seem to think a yerushalmi is a hooligan. ”
“Did you just show your prejudice? all I see in the picture is a yerushalmi running in panic from a police offiecr who seems ready to do him harm. You seem to think a yerushalmi is a hooligan.”
... and you are blind fool to think that he must not be a hooligan just because he is a yerushalmi. There are stupid people everywhere... even among chareidim in EY.
54
Jun 26, 2009 at 01:37 PM PMO Says:
“ why does the wrold only condemn iran for brutuly treating protesters when israeli goverment is no better ”
Israel is not violent toward protesters.
Israel is violent toward those who commit violence. If you are going to pick up rocks and throw them at people, the government is going to come, beat you down and lock you up... AS THEY SHOULD.
These people who commit violent riots in the street are nothing more than PIGS in the street and they should be rounded up and put in cages.
55
Jun 26, 2009 at 01:34 PM PMO Says:
“ Good picture. Shows how violent the police are.
Oh, they did not mean they will tolerate police violence did they? ”
I think the picture is hysterical! If this guy was a violent rioter, I hope he was caught and locked up.
56
Jun 26, 2009 at 01:26 PM dovy Says:
“ They are not real Charedim, they are a bunch rightwing zealots who were during the Beth Hamikdash burned down the food storages so we will need to fight, yea are history is full of extreme zealots.
If it were up to Millhouse and gang, they would do whatever to put forward their views
”
You moron. The nationalists and zionists are the ones who are exactly like the zealots who wanted to fight with goyim and show their kochi v'otzem yadi. They would burn down the food storage in a second. THey never cared about Jews lives anyways (read Perfidy if you are literate enough).
The charedim have been persecuted by state sposored bigotry for 60 years and continue to suffer from police terrorism as this poignant picture clearly illustrates.
57
Jun 26, 2009 at 12:58 PM Anonymous Says:
Nice from all you people who call themselves yiden ...I'm sure you would write the same statements by the Mekoishesh Eitzim you would of protested against hashem for telling Moshe Rabieni to kill him for being Mechalel Shabbos
58
Jun 26, 2009 at 04:31 PM jancsi Says:
#56 dovy you need massive help you are extreemly disturbed you live in a fantasy lalaland you dont see whats happening in iran when religious people take over a nation they are ruining killing their own citizens you dovy shoitele are just like the mullahs who are insane with power get help dovy because youre insane 2
59
Jun 26, 2009 at 04:06 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ Why would it do that? Do you think yiddishkeit and Christianity are equal?! Those who try to take yidden away from Hashem are equally wrong whatever methods they use, because their goal is wrong; it makes no difference whether they use torture or sweet words. It's true that right now we don't usually have the power to coerce bservance of torah and mitzvot among fellow jews, but surely that is why we pray three times a day to get that power. What is it that you mean when you say "hoshivo shofteinu kevorishono"? ”
Millie, you're a smart guy, obviously a talmid chacham and I don't doubt your devotion. Hell! I agree with you about 80% of the time, but if that's what you daven for when you say "hoshivo shofteinu kevorishono" I hope you never see the fulfillment of that bakasha and I don't care if you call me a sheigetz. Biz hundert un tzvantzig the Dayan HaEmes will determine who was or wasn't a sheigetz.
60
Jun 26, 2009 at 03:54 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ Actually you are wrong, it was a bunch of moderna who thought they knew better that the gedolim of that time. They insisted that the rabonim were misinformed and that is who burned the warehouses of food. ”
You are correct. Just like the current bunch of kanoim. I'm not sure what constituted "moderna" during Bayis Sheni but I hasten to point out that Chassidus is also a modern development. The violent protesters don't listen to today's gedolim either. The Kanoim who burned the food supplies were convinced that G-d would reward them for their devotion and deliver them from the Romans by miraculous means. They were Chareidim (also a modern development) of their time.
61
Jun 26, 2009 at 03:41 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Nice from all you people who call themselves yiden ...I'm sure you would write the same statements by the Mekoishesh Eitzim you would of protested against hashem for telling Moshe Rabieni to kill him for being Mechalel Shabbos ”
Are you telling us that the Rabbis of today are on the same level as Moshe Rabieni you definitely need to exam your Beliefs?
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Jun 26, 2009 at 03:29 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You moron. The nationalists and zionists are the ones who are exactly like the zealots who wanted to fight with goyim and show their kochi v'otzem yadi. They would burn down the food storage in a second. THey never cared about Jews lives anyways (read Perfidy if you are literate enough).
The charedim have been persecuted by state sposored bigotry for 60 years and continue to suffer from police terrorism as this poignant picture clearly illustrates. ”
If you believe that you know it all, and collectively the people and the state for the last sixty years are actually planning how to make you all miserable then you need to exam your head. You sound as bright as Millhouse
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Jun 26, 2009 at 03:20 PM shimon Says:
“ You moron. The nationalists and zionists are the ones who are exactly like the zealots who wanted to fight with goyim and show their kochi v'otzem yadi. They would burn down the food storage in a second. THey never cared about Jews lives anyways (read Perfidy if you are literate enough).
The charedim have been persecuted by state sposored bigotry for 60 years and continue to suffer from police terrorism as this poignant picture clearly illustrates. ”
A mechalel shabbos has a cheikel in olam habah. But what about a guy who calls his fellow jew "you moron"?
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Jun 26, 2009 at 03:18 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Actually you are wrong, it was a bunch of moderna who thought they knew better that the gedolim of that time. They insisted that the rabonim were misinformed and that is who burned the warehouses of food. ”
You are right the gedolim of that time were for peace no blood shedding as today’s rabbis are into fighting each other or praying for the power to force other Jews to follow what he thinks is right not what my Rabbi tells me so follow Millhouse all the way to %$^$
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Jun 26, 2009 at 03:16 PM Raphael Kaufman Says:
“ Yes, that's exactly right. When you see a sheigetz being chased, it's reasonable to assume he's done something wrong. When you see an erlicher yid being chased, not only is there no reason to assume he's done anything wrong, but you also have the duty to judge him lechaf zechus. ”
Here we are reading our thoughts into the picture. Are you saying that he must be an "erlicher yid" because of the way he's dressed? Also, that's a Jew chasing him. Many poskim,including Rav Neuwirth, have ruled that soldiers and police on on duty may carry their equipment on Shabbos but should attempt to do it b'derech levush. Note that the cop is not carrying anything in his hands. With no more information than what is provided in the picture, and the assumption that both men in the picture are Jews, it seems to me that both of them should be dan l'kav zechus.
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Jun 26, 2009 at 03:41 PM Anonymous Says:
“ “Did you just show your prejudice? all I see in the picture is a yerushalmi running in panic from a police offiecr who seems ready to do him harm. You seem to think a yerushalmi is a hooligan.”
... and you are blind fool to think that he must not be a hooligan just because he is a yerushalmi. There are stupid people everywhere... even among chareidim in EY. ”
And you too show your prejudice. Because you too are assuming that he is a hooligan because he is wearing yerushalmi levush. ( In Yerushalaim none the less).
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Jun 27, 2009 at 03:29 PM Remember Jerusalem Says:
WHH
I want to remind the respondents of this little forum that Rav Yosef Shalom Eliashiv and Rav Ovadia Yosef signed the call to demonstrate. Nobody in the Chareidi community does much of anything on their own, alone and without a leader. That these Gedolim have called on the people to demonstrate guarantees a demonstration, period. Yes Jerusalem needs our protection and not to object to the organizing of automobiles into the city on Shabbos would be gravely offensive to G_D. Shame on this mayor for attempting to Internationalize Jerusalem, and shame on you American fellow Jews who think Jerusalem is a nation like any other nation.
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Jun 28, 2009 at 12:19 AM voter Says:
“ Oh yes this is what democracy is all about you guys are losing it ”
Democracy is about peacefull demostration. By the way some democratic countries you must go out to vote or get fined. You can invalidate your ballot but you must go.
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Jun 28, 2009 at 12:11 AM Milhouse Says:
“ You are right the gedolim of that time were for peace no blood shedding as today’s rabbis are into fighting each other or praying for the power to force other Jews to follow what he thinks is right not what my Rabbi tells me so follow Millhouse all the way to %$^$ ”
The rabbonim of that time were not for peace! Who do you think started and led the revolt in the first place? They were for fighting, until it became clear that there was no point, there was no chance of winning, and the time had come to negotiate surrender terms.
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Jun 28, 2009 at 12:05 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Israel is not violent toward protesters.
Israel is violent toward those who commit violence. If you are going to pick up rocks and throw them at people, the government is going to come, beat you down and lock you up... AS THEY SHOULD.
These people who commit violent riots in the street are nothing more than PIGS in the street and they should be rounded up and put in cages. ”
That is simply not true. The Israeli police are violent brutal people, and have been for a long time. They are violent to peaceful protesters.
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Jun 28, 2009 at 08:43 AM Anonymous Says:
“ That is simply not true. The Israeli police are violent brutal people, and have been for a long time. They are violent to peaceful protesters. ”
That is not true they won't necessarily harm you if you are standing on the side, they will typically leave you alone if you are just standing there!
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Jun 28, 2009 at 04:11 PM Milhouse Says:
“ That is not true they won't necessarily harm you if you are standing on the side, they will typically leave you alone if you are just standing there! ”
You must be talking about some other police in some other country. The experience of decades of hafgonos, as well as that of other people who've tangled with them (e.g. at Amona) is that they don't care what you've been doing, if you're within reach of their sticks or their horses they will beat you.
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Jun 29, 2009 at 06:21 AM me Says:
“ Israel is a democracy they have a right tor protest but not riot. If they do riot they should be prosecuted to the full extend of the law. ”
Izzy,
Thank you for you full fledged endorsement of chillul Shabbos. I'm sure you think Kiddush hashem on your terms brings moshiach closer while quietly eupporting chillul Shabbos. When did G-d change his mind about us having to keep Shabbos?