RSS Feed
Jerusalem - Charedi Seriously Injuerd at Protest in Mea She'arim, Dozens Arrested |
|
| |
Text Size
|
Charedi detained by police Photo: Gil Yohanan
However, by nighttime a vehicle equipped with a public address system was traveling through Jerusalem's haredi neighborhoods on behalf of the ultra-Orthodox sect and urging protestors, upset over the opening of a municipal parking lot on Shabbat, to end the riots.
Meanwhile, a senior Jerusalem Police official told Ynet that officers "had no connection to the injury suffered by the young Orthodox man at the protest this evening."
The police official said the man fell off a fence during an illegal Orthodox demonstration.
Police arrest a charedi demonstrator on Saturday. Photo: Ariel Jerozolimski
Rabbi Yitzhak Goldknopf of the Council for the Sanctity of the Shabbat told Ynet Saturday evening that "we got the most out of the mission we took upon ourselves, as tens of thousands of residents went out to protest the trampling of the Shabbat's sanctity."
The rabbi stressed that leaders of the struggle are not assuming responsibility for Saturday's riots, but rather, only for a mass rally Friday, noting that the Shabbat violence "is not our way." He added that the Council will continue to address the issue, but said community leaders will decide whether to continue the ferocious protests next Saturday.
During the evening, police officers arrested at least 40 haredi protestors across Jerusalem. Most detainees were nabbed at the entrance to the ultra-Orthodox Mea Shearim neighborhood in the capital. Hundreds of rioters hurled stones, cans, glass battles and fruit at police while chanting "Shabbes." Later in the evening, protestors burned garbage dumpsters in the city.
Earlier in the day, roughly 1,000 secular residents also hit the streets, to protest what they referred to as "ultra-Orthodox bullying" in the capital.
More of today's headlines
“Albany, NY - Gov. David Paterson has called for a rare Sunday session of New York’s Senate after the fractured house again met separately. Paterson’s order for a...”
Albany, NY - Governor Calls a Special Senate Session Sunday
Washington - Russia Tells Court U.S. Has No Authority in Chabad-Lubavitch Documents Suit
Total121
Read Comments (121) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 27, 2009 at 09:17 PM elie Says:
Has anything good happened as a result of these riots???
Wouldn't it be better for all the protestors to sit read tehillim instead of acting like lunatics in the street?
2
Jun 27, 2009 at 09:37 PM shabbos Says:
what a chillul hashem. you see how the secular are right that the chareidim in erets yisroel are wrong and the kipa sruga people are better
3
Jun 27, 2009 at 09:48 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Has anything good happened as a result of these riots???
Wouldn't it be better for all the protestors to sit read tehillim instead of acting like lunatics in the street? ”
u call protestors with mesiras nefesf for kvod shabbos, "lunetics"?!
r u not ashamed of urself for siding with the zionist heartless police?!
4
Jun 27, 2009 at 09:48 PM anonymous Says:
This is goyishe mida and no erliche yid would incite violence and riot
5
Jun 27, 2009 at 09:47 PM scooter Says:
When I See The Picture How The Israeli Police Arresting Protestors It Reminds Me From Iran!
6
Jun 27, 2009 at 09:45 PM yoelyg Says:
thanks for all jeruslam yidden who attended the holy protest, it was a big kiddish hashm, MI KAMCU YISROEL
7
Jun 27, 2009 at 09:44 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Has anything good happened as a result of these riots???
Wouldn't it be better for all the protestors to sit read tehillim instead of acting like lunatics in the street? ”
You obviously dont understand the significance of shmiros shabbos or you wouldn't criticize the demonstators who take these things very seriously.
8
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:21 PM Yisroel Says:
Violence only begets violence. You can't complain that the police are being brutal after you burn garbage cans and throw bottles at them. This isn't the Jewish way. Just read the article on Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld yesterday on VIN. If a store was open on shabbos he would sit near the entrance to the store, away from the door, and recite Tehillim. Usually the store owner closed. Violence is wrong!
9
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:19 PM Anonymous Says:
In gush katif they also beat the demonstrators with brutality!
10
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:16 PM dovy Says:
“ what a chillul hashem. you see how the secular are right that the chareidim in erets yisroel are wrong and the kipa sruga people are better ”
I have been to both charedi and "kippah seruga" demonstrations. The national religous are much more wild and attack the police much harder (remember Atzmona? I guess not because you are an ignorant peasant) yet by their protests they cry police brutality. For some reason when the chardim are protesting they don't think the police are brutal anymore.
11
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:16 PM cool masmid Says:
“ You obviously dont understand the significance of shmiros shabbos or you wouldn't criticize the demonstators who take these things very seriously. ”
I am on the side of #1 ..... In situations like this, one has to ask 'What does Hashem want us to do, to stand up for Kedushas Shabbos?'..... I have a hard time believing that this is what Hashem wants us to do - to go out ther which by all accounts is a matzav sakono and to be throwing stones and bottles and other objects (which by the way a lot of these objects are muktza) and throwing them at police officers. I am going to have a hard time being convinced that this what Hashem wants Yidden to do on Shabbos. And so #1 is right that there are many better ways to stand up for kedushas Shabbos. I'm sure many of you would agree with me.
12
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:13 PM Anonymous Says:
“ what a chillul hashem. you see how the secular are right that the chareidim in erets yisroel are wrong and the kipa sruga people are better ”
Your obviously not all there. You have the nerve , u little nobody, to say what your saying if every single Gudole said to go protest.
13
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:12 PM Anonymous Says:
"We got the most out of our mission as thousands went out to the streets to protest the trampling of shabbat's sanctity."
Yeah, sure. To throw rocks, bottles and fruit at people on shabbos. Now that's really in the spirit of shabbos, speaking of trampling.
14
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:09 PM Anonymous Says:
I spoke to the person who was injured tonight. He was not among the protestors, he was walking to the Kosel and passed by the area where the protest was. The police came with scooters and charged the crowd. He tried to get out of the way and tried to get over one of the fences that are along street in many places in Yerushalaim and tripped and broke his arm. So it is nice for the police to claim they did not injure him, but the fact is, it is because that they indescrimnately charged the crowd with their vehicles that an innocent passer-by was injured and is now in the hospital waiting to see if he will need surgery.
15
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:07 PM Anonymous Says:
They burned garbage on shabbos because a parking lot was open on shabbos sounds like some cahredim (or dressing like charedim) don't know halacha but do know how to make a chillul hashem.
16
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:03 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You obviously dont understand the significance of shmiros shabbos or you wouldn't criticize the demonstators who take these things very seriously. ”
Get this into your head Israel was founded as a democracy not a theocracy as much you would abhorrer if the Muslims would force all the Jews to covert, or a country like US would force you to convert, I know I am stupid to even think that.
17
Jun 27, 2009 at 09:34 PM Yitzchok Says:
How are these people any differant in their behavior then the Taliban? "Lehavdil" they belive in using violance to further their cause..
18
Jun 27, 2009 at 09:31 PM Happy Man Says:
“ Has anything good happened as a result of these riots???
Wouldn't it be better for all the protestors to sit read tehillim instead of acting like lunatics in the street? ”
I'm personally against this way but unfortunately by riots and protesting you you achieve the most.
Especially in Israel is this the normal way. The police handles the same with their issues by hitting etc.
19
Jun 27, 2009 at 09:28 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Has anything good happened as a result of these riots???
Wouldn't it be better for all the protestors to sit read tehillim instead of acting like lunatics in the street? ”
Yes sure it helped, the police had to bring in extra help, so with the help of theses protester we had more Jew working on Shabbat
.
20
Jun 27, 2009 at 09:24 PM Dag Says:
I call on Rabbi Goldknopf to put all rioters into cherem and support their prosecution.
21
Jun 27, 2009 at 09:22 PM bunimfrombrooklyn Says:
As far as I know Rav Elyasiv,The Gerrer Rebbe,& Rav Ovadya Yosepwho represent a large number of chareidi jewry only said to Daven Kabbalas Shabbos outside on the street. NOT to do stupid protests that would result in a HUGE chillul Hashem.(yes its one of the top stories of FOX NEWS)
22
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:48 PM some1 Says:
by the way dirty diapers, rocks and garbage are just as muktzah as driving a car!!
23
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:45 PM Anonymous Says:
“ They burned garbage on shabbos because a parking lot was open on shabbos sounds like some cahredim (or dressing like charedim) don't know halacha but do know how to make a chillul hashem. ”
Read article again.... It says very clearly that after Shabbos they burned garbage cans - just correcting you as I am totally against these demonstrations- don't care who gave their authorization to go.
24
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:44 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I spoke to the person who was injured tonight. He was not among the protestors, he was walking to the Kosel and passed by the area where the protest was. The police came with scooters and charged the crowd. He tried to get out of the way and tried to get over one of the fences that are along street in many places in Yerushalaim and tripped and broke his arm. So it is nice for the police to claim they did not injure him, but the fact is, it is because that they indescrimnately charged the crowd with their vehicles that an innocent passer-by was injured and is now in the hospital waiting to see if he will need surgery. ”
I know one thing I am not dim-witted to believe his assertion that he was not there for the protest, let’s face it, here every bum who is arrested after running away from the police claims that he run because he was scared or some other store, we heard it again and again, goodbye Millhouse
25
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:43 PM Anonymous Says:
Why not do something positive for klal yisroel like invite someone less religious than you to your house to show them the beauty of shabbos? Why not learn with somebody secular once a week? What are they going to achieve with these types of protest? It's a disgrace. If only there were more leaders, more Rabbonim, who would talk of kiruv. The attitude is always "don't look up from your gemara. Better to save yourself for olam haboh. If the others burn in the fires of gehinom, well, that's their problem." What happened to the idea of kol Yisroel areivim ze laze. But no, today better to throw things at people.
26
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:33 PM Anonymous Says:
I just saw a 'nmase' w R Schach ztl. He was walking with a bochur on shabbos on the outskirts of Bnei brak and he asked why those streets there are chillu shaboo and here not? The bochuer naswered because those are Bnei brak and that is Bat Yam? No R Schach said becuase in Bnei Brak their shmiras shabbos only goes this far. Ig in Bnei Brak they would have more chashivus and be more carefulin Shmiras shabbos then those streets would also have shmiras shabbos. (Along those lines the famous masa with if we would be careful in our mitzvos thern the yid in Paris wouldnt be nichshgol) We need to look atr our shabbos to prevent this chillul shabbos
27
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:58 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Violence only begets violence. You can't complain that the police are being brutal after you burn garbage cans and throw bottles at them. This isn't the Jewish way. Just read the article on Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld yesterday on VIN. If a store was open on shabbos he would sit near the entrance to the store, away from the door, and recite Tehillim. Usually the store owner closed. Violence is wrong! ”
"After"? The dumpster burning obviously didn't happen until after Shabbos; do you imagine the police behaved themselves until then? The police brutality has been going on for decades, long before there was violence on the demonstrators' parts, and it's a miracle that they've only managed to murder one person.
28
Jun 27, 2009 at 11:47 PM Anonymous Says:
I think they should have had a major Shabbos seuda on the streets and sang zemiros and asked the cops to join
29
Jun 27, 2009 at 11:06 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Yes sure it helped, the police had to bring in extra help, so with the help of theses protester we had more Jew working on Shabbat
.
”
They didn't have to do anything. They CHOSE to be mechalel shabbos. That's their fault, not the protesters'.
30
Jun 27, 2009 at 11:04 PM Milhouse Says:
“ How are these people any differant in their behavior then the Taliban? "Lehavdil" they belive in using violance to further their cause.. ”
How are they different? Very simple: the Torah is true and the Koran is not. That is the difference. They are not wrong because they use violence to further their cause, but because their cause is wrong in the first place. They'd be just as wrong if they pursued their cause only by peaceful means. Or have you bought into the stupid Western belief that all ends are equal, and the only thing that distinguishes good people from bad is the means they use to achieve their ends?!
31
Jun 27, 2009 at 11:02 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Get this into your head Israel was founded as a democracy not a theocracy as much you would abhorrer if the Muslims would force all the Jews to covert, or a country like US would force you to convert, I know I am stupid to even think that. ”
Get this into your head. We don't care. Sooner or later you will keep shabbos, whether you like it or not.
32
Jun 27, 2009 at 11:01 PM Milhouse Says:
“ They burned garbage on shabbos because a parking lot was open on shabbos sounds like some cahredim (or dressing like charedim) don't know halacha but do know how to make a chillul hashem. ”
Who burned garbage on Shabbos? What right do you have to accuse yidden of such a thing? You should be ashamed of yourself.
33
Jun 27, 2009 at 11:00 PM Milhouse Says:
“ "We got the most out of our mission as thousands went out to the streets to protest the trampling of shabbat's sanctity."
Yeah, sure. To throw rocks, bottles and fruit at people on shabbos. Now that's really in the spirit of shabbos, speaking of trampling. ”
What are you talking about? Thousands demonstrated. How many threw anything, other than in self-defense?
34
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:53 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Violence only begets violence. You can't complain that the police are being brutal after you burn garbage cans and throw bottles at them. This isn't the Jewish way. Just read the article on Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld yesterday on VIN. If a store was open on shabbos he would sit near the entrance to the store, away from the door, and recite Tehillim. Usually the store owner closed. Violence is wrong! ”
If you mean to imply that this was the only method RYCS used, you are misrepresenting the truth. He also led huge rallies just like his successor R Weiss has done.
35
Jun 27, 2009 at 10:51 PM Milhouse Says:
“ I have been to both charedi and "kippah seruga" demonstrations. The national religous are much more wild and attack the police much harder (remember Atzmona? I guess not because you are an ignorant peasant) yet by their protests they cry police brutality. For some reason when the chardim are protesting they don't think the police are brutal anymore. ”
At Amona the demonstrators resorted to violence only in self-defense and defense of others.
36
Jun 27, 2009 at 11:29 PM Anonymous Says:
Police brutality? Please! I have been to these hafgunois and let me tell you-it is always some charedi moron throwing a rock or doing something similarly stupid that starts the violence...the cops have no choice but to respond
37
Jun 27, 2009 at 11:27 PM ZR Says:
“ thanks for all jeruslam yidden who attended the holy protest, it was a big kiddish hashm, MI KAMCU YISROEL ”
Darchehoh darchei noam - The Torah's was is the way of peace.
Nothing is accomplished by violence. What are they trying to accomplish here?
1) To get more Yidden keeping Shabbos? How many Yidden who see these violent protests are more inspired to keep shabbos? Go to any non-frum news blog (Jpost) and see what the bloggers write about the Chareidim. Most not-yet frum people are disgusted from the actions of the Chareidim. This is a Chillul Hashem plain and simple.
2) Are they trying to prevent Chillul Shabbos? Don't they realise that their protest on Shabbos causes even more Chillul Shabbos? More police have to be put in service. They have to drive to the protests. Journalists come and film. In short these kanoim are causing more Chillul Shabbos, NOT less.
3) If there are any yidden thinking of becoming more frum, do you think these types of actions cause him to be more endeared to Chareidi Yiddishkeit? Or do these actions give his family ammunition in their effort to keep him away from becoming religious? If these kaniom were really concerned about Chillul Shabbos they are certainly going the wrong way about it. But something tells me they are not interested in bringing more Yidden to Yiddishkeit and shmiras shabbos. Such type of thinking is completely foreign to them. As far as these kanoim are concerned the secular are sinners and must be disowned as Jews and fought against. Unfortunately they haven’t understood the basic fact that the secular are b’geder tinokei shenishbu and fighting will not help. It will only increase the discord and contempt they were brought up with. These violent protests don’t help and don’t accomplish anything. Maybe one day they will understand that the only method that can work for people who were brought up in a secular house is the way of Aharon; Ohev shalom v’rodeph shalom u’mekarvon latorah. Love peace, pursue peace, and bring [all of creation] to the Torah.
38
Jun 27, 2009 at 11:13 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You obviously dont understand the significance of shmiros shabbos or you wouldn't criticize the demonstators who take these things very seriously. ”
Shabbos observance is important, but stopping violent and dangerous behavior that threatens public safety is much more significant. the police are just doing thier jobs.
39
Jun 28, 2009 at 12:17 AM deeply pained Says:
“ You obviously dont understand the significance of shmiros shabbos or you wouldn't criticize the demonstators who take these things very seriously. ”
Do you really think anyone is worried about shmiras shabbos. I live right near Bar Ilan. The friday night davening there was inspiring. The police mounted a video camera on top of the traffic lights. My brother-in-law met a bachur on one of the side streets all scared, he told him that he just snipped the wire of the video and the police arrested someone else instead of him. My brother-in-law tried explaining to him that it is prohibited on shabbos to do that, he said he knew but How could they have a video going and frum people be in it? So he was mechalel shabbos at a protest against chillul shabbos. By the way this was a bachur from Williamsburg so you can't blame the chinuch here. The chinuch is bad and these kids are confused and just having fun.
Instead of yelling and hurling pampers and rocks wouldn't they show a greater appreaciation for shabbos to our less fortunate brothers by dancing in the street instead of yelling at them. They do not know about shabbos and we are not giving them a reason to want to know more with our actions
(by the way, don't you think he should turn himself in instead of making someone else sit instead of him......but he wouldn't think of it with all his lsheim shamayim)
40
Jun 28, 2009 at 12:09 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I know one thing I am not dim-witted to believe his assertion that he was not there for the protest, let’s face it, here every bum who is arrested after running away from the police claims that he run because he was scared or some other store, we heard it again and again, goodbye Millhouse ”
You are just plain dumb. Not just dim witted. Because facts do not mean anything to you, just your own preconceptions.
41
Jun 28, 2009 at 12:54 AM Anonymous Says:
“ You are just plain dumb. Not just dim witted. Because facts do not mean anything to you, just your own preconceptions.
”
Your insults will not change the fact, it only proofs that you don’t have a leg to stand on, it has always been known that most of people who were apprehended by law enforcement, after the chase, they claim some excuses why the did not stop but ran, so if you look in the mirror you will see dupe on your forehead don’t get scared you’re not dyslectic it only looks backwards.
42
Jun 28, 2009 at 12:29 AM Anonymous Says:
“ How are they different? Very simple: the Torah is true and the Koran is not. That is the difference. They are not wrong because they use violence to further their cause, but because their cause is wrong in the first place. They'd be just as wrong if they pursued their cause only by peaceful means. Or have you bought into the stupid Western belief that all ends are equal, and the only thing that distinguishes good people from bad is the means they use to achieve their ends?! ”
As you know Apikores is a acronym for the Greek philosopher Epicurus and his views on religion and the afterlife, for me Millhouse is a acronym for a person who is fairly bright, somewhat learned, knowledgeable in politics, but immersed in far-rightwing politics to the detriment of Jews in particular, and humanity in general, pompous, know it all, uses the Word for his own personal views, espouses hate, sees himself as Gods own selected emissary to dispenses judgment to everyone, and sees the end always justify the means, as long as his religious view is the dominator, that is a “Millhouse” not the person anymore but what it stands for.
43
Jun 28, 2009 at 12:26 AM Yatzmich Says:
I was at the prayer rally on Bar Illan Friday Night.
The rally was peaceful, in spite of a handful few bored youths seeking action. Those attention whores did attack a few reporters who stepped too close to the rally, but reporters in Chareidi areas on Shabbat should know better than flaunting their cameras and recording devices at the faces of Shabbat keepers.
The rally itself numbered at least 40,000 people, though (not all at once; they were organised in small groups, each group holding its own prayers, according to its own melodies, customs etc., and when i was there, many were already leaving, having finished their prayers, while others were just arriving).
Of those estimated 40,000, maybe only 20 engaged in so-called violence, and even they were relatively tame, compared e.g. with the Na`alin and Bile`in protesters.
SHAME on the media like Ynet Haaretz etc. for doing selective coverage withe headlines charaidem riot when only a couple of guys rioted
44
Jun 28, 2009 at 07:24 AM Anonymous Says:
“ As you know Apikores is a acronym for the Greek philosopher Epicurus and his views on religion and the afterlife, for me Millhouse is a acronym for a person who is fairly bright, somewhat learned, knowledgeable in politics, but immersed in far-rightwing politics to the detriment of Jews in particular, and humanity in general, pompous, know it all, uses the Word for his own personal views, espouses hate, sees himself as Gods own selected emissary to dispenses judgment to everyone, and sees the end always justify the means, as long as his religious view is the dominator, that is a “Millhouse” not the person anymore but what it stands for. ”
You haven't seen anything yet. Now that you wrote what others just think about him he will attack you as a shaigetz, an idiot and othe such names, all for the 'sin' of writing the truth.
One point you missed - his constant sending young Israeli's into harm's way from the safety of the USA. First with his right-wing, fight the arabs until the last dead Israeli politics, now with his stirring up anti charaidi hatred with his contempt filled writings against yiddin who are not tripping over themselves to become frum after being on the receiving end of charaidi extremism.
45
Jun 28, 2009 at 07:21 AM End of Days Says:
Is there any tachlis to all this?
46
Jun 28, 2009 at 07:21 AM Chassidish & Ashamed Says:
When citizens were forcibly removed from Gush Katif by soldiers, the soldiers were crying. Why? Because for the most part, the settlers behaved with dignity. Yes, they were crying out loud & protesting, but they were restrained. (They had tried more aggressive means, but it didn't work. At the end, this is what people remember!) Remember how they gave candies & brachas to the soldiers?
These so-called Charedim are like animals. Why must they do this on Shabbos? I agree with #28. A peaceful demonstration, Tehillim chanted out loud, a Shabbos morning minyan with a Sefer Torah (well, if they could carry rocks & stinky diapers they could carry a holy Sefer Torah) would have beautifully effective & dignified. And I don't believe for one minute the Gedolim who endorsed this demonstration advocated this kind of disgusting behavior, any more than I believe they encourage the Taliban-style Tznius Gangs.
Let them go back to their squalor. Anyone who is capable of gathering up & throwing dirty diapers at anyone, let a alone at a Jew, obviously doesn't care much for hygiene.
For the record, I am Chassidish. I also am ashamed of their behavior. Now it's your turn to insult me for bashing them for not keeping the holy Shabbos & for behaving so disgustingly & making such a massive Chillul Hashem.
47
Jun 28, 2009 at 06:52 AM Anonymous Says:
“ How are these people any differant in their behavior then the Taliban? "Lehavdil" they belive in using violance to further their cause.. ”
Differnet? I do not see any difference. These monsters are ready to beat up Jews who are willing to risk their safety to stand up for upholding Shabbos.!!!!
Our fellow Jews are being treated like we were treated in Pogroms..... but today it is my fellow Jews in Israel.
Jews SHOULD protest violating the Shabbat. If we don't; who will???
If following G-d commandments so unimportant to us that it is "Okay" to open parking lots on Shabbat?
Are we now worshiping "Democracy" and Politcial correctness more that G-d's Torah?
Are we now too "embarrassed" to stick up for our Torah?
48
Jun 28, 2009 at 06:36 AM Anonymous Says:
“ How are these people any differant in their behavior then the Taliban? "Lehavdil" they belive in using violance to further their cause.. ”
Differnet? I do not see any difference. These monsters are ready to beat up Jews who are willing to risk their safety to stand up for upholding Shabbos.!!!!
Our fellow Jews are being treated like we were treated in Pogroms..... but today it is my fellow Jews in Israel.
Jews SHOULD protest violating the Shabbat. If we don't; who will???
If following G-d commandments so unimportant to us that it is "Okay" to open parking lots on Shabbat?
Are we now worshiping "Democracy" and Politcial correctness more that G-d's Torah?
Are we now too "embarrassed" to stick up for our Torah?
49
Jun 28, 2009 at 06:30 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Has anything good happened as a result of these riots???
Wouldn't it be better for all the protestors to sit read tehillim instead of acting like lunatics in the street? ”
Yes, we see a clear demonstration that the Jews of Israel hate the Chareidim. There is less religious freedom in Israel for practicing Judaism than for practicing other faiths.
50
Jun 28, 2009 at 06:29 AM Anonymous Says:
it pains me to see them fight like this on the street on shabbos. we jews have to stick together now in all those hard times, not hurt people on the street! maybe if we become more beachdus and menschlich, the chilonim will see that the frum ppl are very good ppl and they wont think so bad about us.
51
Jun 28, 2009 at 06:24 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Your insults will not change the fact, it only proofs that you don’t have a leg to stand on, it has always been known that most of people who were apprehended by law enforcement, after the chase, they claim some excuses why the did not stop but ran, so if you look in the mirror you will see dupe on your forehead don’t get scared you’re not dyslectic it only looks backwards. ”
You would not be willing to accept proof because of your oft stated preconception.
I spoke to the prson who I know well for a long time. You may not wish to accept what is fact because of your preconceptions. The person was not running away from the police, the police charged at the crowd, which was near where he was passing, with vehicles he was scrambling to get out of the way. Not running from the police which you are so insistent on using as your basis. As I said before, facts are not. Important to you certainly when they disprove your biased assumptions.
52
Jun 28, 2009 at 05:37 AM Get a Life! Says:
Although the Jerusalem municipality are wrong, these Israeli charedim are not reacting appropriately. Maybe if they got a job, or were allowed to play sports, they wouldn't have the time and energy for this ridiculous behavior!
53
Jun 28, 2009 at 03:56 AM InMaalotDafna Says:
Nothing is violent until the police charge, call names, push the crowd.
54
Jun 28, 2009 at 03:09 AM Anonymous Says:
“ As you know Apikores is a acronym for the Greek philosopher Epicurus and his views on religion and the afterlife, for me Millhouse is a acronym for a person who is fairly bright, somewhat learned, knowledgeable in politics, but immersed in far-rightwing politics to the detriment of Jews in particular, and humanity in general, pompous, know it all, uses the Word for his own personal views, espouses hate, sees himself as Gods own selected emissary to dispenses judgment to everyone, and sees the end always justify the means, as long as his religious view is the dominator, that is a “Millhouse” not the person anymore but what it stands for. ”
I agree 100%, but no doubt mr pompous loves it that he is the subject of analysis, so I wouldn't even give him this attention.
55
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:54 AM Anonymous Says:
“ As far as I know Rav Elyasiv,The Gerrer Rebbe,& Rav Ovadya Yosepwho represent a large number of chareidi jewry only said to Daven Kabbalas Shabbos outside on the street. NOT to do stupid protests that would result in a HUGE chillul Hashem.(yes its one of the top stories of FOX NEWS) ”
young .man...
ir was the the Gerrer who got Yerushalayim intot his mess.
had ger supported a "tzaddik" and shomer shabbos for mayor (instead of the mechalel shabbos) we would not have this discussion now.
THANK YOU GUR
56
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:51 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Get this into your head Israel was founded as a democracy not a theocracy as much you would abhorrer if the Muslims would force all the Jews to covert, or a country like US would force you to convert, I know I am stupid to even think that. ”
democracy???
why can't Jews go onto Temple Mount?
Oh...you don't want to offend the Muslims...but to offend Jews is perfectly Ok?
I can't stand when the lefty loonies yellllll DEMOCRACY
57
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:09 AM chabadnik Says:
it would be more effective if they would set up shabbos tables with kugals herring and kol mine taanugei shabbos all over the streets of yerusholyim, and invite all to eat with them, all the parking lots will be closed within weeks.
58
Jun 28, 2009 at 01:59 AM Avi Hoch Says:
“ u call protestors with mesiras nefesf for kvod shabbos, "lunetics"?!
r u not ashamed of urself for siding with the zionist heartless police?! ”
no im not if they r aganist the state of Israel they cant make their own rules.If they dont like israel tell them to move
59
Jun 28, 2009 at 01:47 AM Anonymous Says:
Correction: Israeli police rioting against peaceful demonstrators.
As they always do, the unmannered so called police officers would start whipping with their batons and throwing tear gas on the population (including small children), as a result some youngsters would react accordingly..
I witnessed too many protests in Israel to believe a word the Israeli press or police would utter. Git voch!
60
Jun 28, 2009 at 01:19 AM Bob Says:
“ How are these people any differant in their behavior then the Taliban? "Lehavdil" they belive in using violance to further their cause.. ”
We are Proud of these ultra-orthodox holy men for glorifying the name of the One Above.
61
Jun 28, 2009 at 07:58 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Yes, we see a clear demonstration that the Jews of Israel hate the Chareidim. There is less religious freedom in Israel for practicing Judaism than for practicing other faiths. ”
REALLY? Which part of Torah does thr medina stop you from keeping?
62
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:24 AM Anonymous Says:
“ This is goyishe mida and no erliche yid would incite violence and riot ”
Correct, which is why people need to first ensure that they themselves are in fact "Erlich" before taking to the street to protest. Same goes for the "Rabbinic" backing make sure you and the people you are sending to the streets are Erlich or all you will accomplish is more Chillul Hashem.
63
Jun 28, 2009 at 01:16 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Do you really think anyone is worried about shmiras shabbos. I live right near Bar Ilan. The friday night davening there was inspiring. The police mounted a video camera on top of the traffic lights. My brother-in-law met a bachur on one of the side streets all scared, he told him that he just snipped the wire of the video and the police arrested someone else instead of him. My brother-in-law tried explaining to him that it is prohibited on shabbos to do that, he said he knew but How could they have a video going and frum people be in it? So he was mechalel shabbos at a protest against chillul shabbos. By the way this was a bachur from Williamsburg so you can't blame the chinuch here. The chinuch is bad and these kids are confused and just having fun.
Instead of yelling and hurling pampers and rocks wouldn't they show a greater appreaciation for shabbos to our less fortunate brothers by dancing in the street instead of yelling at them. They do not know about shabbos and we are not giving them a reason to want to know more with our actions
(by the way, don't you think he should turn himself in instead of making someone else sit instead of him......but he wouldn't think of it with all his lsheim shamayim) ”
Yes he should turn himself in. Making someone else take your punishment and causing his good name to be sullied, are at least two of the sins going on here. They are both lies. You don't need a Midrash to tell you that. It's basic moral decency.
It's really too bad that these protestors didn't expend some of their rage and energy at the "abomination" parade that took place in the center of town on Thursday evening. That happening was as great if not a greater sin as having a parking lot open. Haredim, please understand that the World sees your actions and rubs it's hands in glee over Jew fighting Jew. They don't understand your cause. All they see is G-d's "Chosen" acting like animals against their own. Protest if you must but don't harm other Jews doing so.
In another publication, their was a picture of a woman being carried away by two big police MEN. Where was her tzinut? First of all being out there, and than instead of going humbly she let herself be grabbed by two men and taken away physically? I won't describe her appearance but being roughed up while being arrested doesn't lend itself to being tzinusdik in one's attire.
64
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:21 AM kal Says:
i have said this before,
i only hope that the motivation of the protestors is truly that of kanaus.
65
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:21 AM Anonymous Says:
Thank you GER!!!
66
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:18 AM listen 2 me Says:
“ what a chillul hashem. you see how the secular are right that the chareidim in erets yisroel are wrong and the kipa sruga people are better ”
what do you think they didnt think of that but they know there people the isrealys dont understand an other way thats the way we have 2 deal with them . you write like you are shabbos the shabbos wants this to happen if sombody is mechalel shabbos thats the way you stick up for shabbos hope that you got my message
67
Jun 28, 2009 at 09:08 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Yes, we see a clear demonstration that the Jews of Israel hate the Chareidim. There is less religious freedom in Israel for practicing Judaism than for practicing other faiths. ”
No-one is stopping the Charedim from observing their faith. If this is the way the Charedim act, in addition to taking money from the government and letting other Jews die to protect them, then it is no wonder that the jews of Israel hate the Charedim. It has nothing to do with the Torah and everything to do with the actions of the Charedim.
68
Jun 28, 2009 at 09:04 AM Anonymous Says:
“ what do you think they didnt think of that but they know there people the isrealys dont understand an other way thats the way we have 2 deal with them . you write like you are shabbos the shabbos wants this to happen if sombody is mechalel shabbos thats the way you stick up for shabbos hope that you got my message ”
It would help if your message was comprehensible.
69
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:59 AM Anonymous Says:
“ u call protestors with mesiras nefesf for kvod shabbos, "lunetics"?!
r u not ashamed of urself for siding with the zionist heartless police?! ”
If they had Mesiras Nefesh for Kvod Shabbos, they would act with Kavod. Since they act like animals, they should be called what they are.
70
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:48 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Shabbos observance is important, but stopping violent and dangerous behavior that threatens public safety is much more significant. the police are just doing thier jobs. ”
Threatens public safety? How is public safety threatened? Even if one or two people throw something at the police, there's no danger to the public. If they can identify those individuals alone, let them arrest them WITHOUT violence against anybody else; if they can't, tough luck. A bit of petty rowdiness is NOT a worse crime than chilul shabbos.
71
Jun 28, 2009 at 09:59 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Threatens public safety? How is public safety threatened? Even if one or two people throw something at the police, there's no danger to the public. If they can identify those individuals alone, let them arrest them WITHOUT violence against anybody else; if they can't, tough luck. A bit of petty rowdiness is NOT a worse crime than chilul shabbos. ”
Isn't even the smallest bit of chillul shaim shomayim worse than chillul shabbos?
72
Jun 28, 2009 at 09:46 AM Milhouse Says:
“ Yes he should turn himself in. Making someone else take your punishment and causing his good name to be sullied, are at least two of the sins going on here. They are both lies. You don't need a Midrash to tell you that. It's basic moral decency.
It's really too bad that these protestors didn't expend some of their rage and energy at the "abomination" parade that took place in the center of town on Thursday evening. That happening was as great if not a greater sin as having a parking lot open. Haredim, please understand that the World sees your actions and rubs it's hands in glee over Jew fighting Jew. They don't understand your cause. All they see is G-d's "Chosen" acting like animals against their own. Protest if you must but don't harm other Jews doing so.
In another publication, their was a picture of a woman being carried away by two big police MEN. Where was her tzinut? First of all being out there, and than instead of going humbly she let herself be grabbed by two men and taken away physically? I won't describe her appearance but being roughed up while being arrested doesn't lend itself to being tzinusdik in one's attire. ”
What a hypocrite you are. With one breath you decry charedi violence, and with the other you wish it were directed against a peaceful parade. If you're not concerned about chilul shabbos, what exactly is your problem with the "pride" parade? It can't be concern for the Torah, so it must just be bigotry. The parade was not a sin at all; at worst it would be like drivers marching on a Wednesday for their right to drive on Shabbos, or treif eaters marching for their right to buy chazer.
In addition, you have no basis for believing that any of the marchers do anything that is a worse sin than driving on Shabbos, or than any chiloni couple does; every time you see a chiloni couple walking together, you know they're likely to be doing serious issurim in the privacy of their home, but you don't call for violence against them. But let some people who are different from you raise their heads, and suddenly you want violence against them. While it's reasonable to assume that these people are not tzadikim, and probably transgress SOME prohibition or other, you have no idea what they actually do, and therefore what the issur might be. But driving in public on Shabbos is a clear issur.
As for this woman who was being molested by the policemen, what makes you think she was given the option of walking in dignity? And if she was given that option, who says she has to take it? Why should she submit to thugs, just to avoid even worse treatment? She is the victim, and here you are blaming her. Feh.
73
Jun 28, 2009 at 09:33 AM Milhouse Says:
“ no im not if they r aganist the state of Israel they cant make their own rules.If they dont like israel tell them to move ”
Why should they? Eretz Yisroel is just as much their home as any other Jew's. If the Zionists don't like them, let THEM leave.
74
Jun 28, 2009 at 09:30 AM Milhouse Says:
“ it would be more effective if they would set up shabbos tables with kugals herring and kol mine taanugei shabbos all over the streets of yerusholyim, and invite all to eat with them, all the parking lots will be closed within weeks.
”
No, they wouldn't. They'd just get arrested for blocking traffic. When will you understand that the chiloni activists don't just want to go about their lives, they HATE shabbos. They drive through frum neighborhoods for the specific purpose of getting people to throw stones at them. If they get no reaction they turn around and come back, or honk their horns, until someone is provoked to do something. They would insist on opening the parking lots even if there were no genuine demand at all, and the only customers were themselves. With people like the late and unlamented Ornan Yekutieli there can be no peace.
75
Jun 28, 2009 at 09:25 AM Milhouse Says:
“ I agree 100%, but no doubt mr pompous loves it that he is the subject of analysis, so I wouldn't even give him this attention. ”
Commenting on your own comment again?
76
Jun 28, 2009 at 09:22 AM Milhouse Says:
“ You haven't seen anything yet. Now that you wrote what others just think about him he will attack you as a shaigetz, an idiot and othe such names, all for the 'sin' of writing the truth.
One point you missed - his constant sending young Israeli's into harm's way from the safety of the USA. First with his right-wing, fight the arabs until the last dead Israeli politics, now with his stirring up anti charaidi hatred with his contempt filled writings against yiddin who are not tripping over themselves to become frum after being on the receiving end of charaidi extremism.
”
Singing your own praises, are you? Or are we to believe that you are a different anonymous coward, and not the same one who wrote the comment you're praising? Why should we believe that? You presume to know "what others just think"?
77
Jun 28, 2009 at 09:20 AM Milhouse Says:
“ As you know Apikores is a acronym for the Greek philosopher Epicurus and his views on religion and the afterlife, for me Millhouse is a acronym for a person who is fairly bright, somewhat learned, knowledgeable in politics, but immersed in far-rightwing politics to the detriment of Jews in particular, and humanity in general, pompous, know it all, uses the Word for his own personal views, espouses hate, sees himself as Gods own selected emissary to dispenses judgment to everyone, and sees the end always justify the means, as long as his religious view is the dominator, that is a “Millhouse” not the person anymore but what it stands for. ”
And what does "Anonymous" stand for? If we put together all the comments made under this name, what picture can we get? None, of course, because by definition anonymous commenters are cowards who are afraid of building a record by which they can be judged. So what can we learn about this particular anonymous commenter, with only these few lines to go by?
The first thing that draws the eye is that he uses words without the faintest clue as to their meaning. Go look up "acronym", you illiterate. And "dominator"? The second is that attention to spelling is not his forte. The third is that he's pompous enough to think he alone knows what is best for "Jews in particular, and humanity in general"; and yet presumes to criticize others for what he perceives as exactly such an attitude.
The rest of this screed is too dense to unpack; it's difficult to discern what he means by "uses the Word for his own personal views", for instance. So that will have to do; and since we are dealing with an anonymous coward, there won't be another occasion, because next time he comes along he will insist on being treated as a tabula rasa, and not have to account for this comment or for anything else he has written.
78
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:43 AM Milhouse Says:
“ I know one thing I am not dim-witted to believe his assertion that he was not there for the protest, let’s face it, here every bum who is arrested after running away from the police claims that he run because he was scared or some other store, we heard it again and again, goodbye Millhouse ”
Let's see. A yid who appears to be shomer torah umitzvos tells you something and you think it's "dim-witted" to believe him, because....what? But the Israeli police shkotzim you trust completely. What possible reason could you have for that?
79
Jun 28, 2009 at 09:32 AM Again Says:
Israel is not the Jewish state it's the Z ionest State. We need to rember that and daven for the geuluah shlaimah, It's a shame that we even have to argue about this.
80
Jun 28, 2009 at 09:30 AM moish Says:
I was at the friday night davening, it was a beautiful kiddush Hashem showing how many people care about Shabbos (and most of the comments here are a chilul Hashem showing that what the media think of them is more important to them then standing up for the Torah), and as for the police, who asked them to come at all, there was no opposing protest in the vincinty for them to expect clashes which they would have to control, the only clashes they were expecting was with them, so they obviously came with the intention of causing these clashes to provide headlines for anti religious media.
And another point for all the people so worried about the leshem shomayim of all the protestors, I am assuming that is because all the mitzvos they do are 100% leshem shomayim!
81
Jun 28, 2009 at 11:12 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I am on the side of #1 ..... In situations like this, one has to ask 'What does Hashem want us to do, to stand up for Kedushas Shabbos?'..... I have a hard time believing that this is what Hashem wants us to do - to go out ther which by all accounts is a matzav sakono and to be throwing stones and bottles and other objects (which by the way a lot of these objects are muktza) and throwing them at police officers. I am going to have a hard time being convinced that this what Hashem wants Yidden to do on Shabbos. And so #1 is right that there are many better ways to stand up for kedushas Shabbos. I'm sure many of you would agree with me. ”
so if u have a hart time to beleave that this is what we have to do,u have to do a big 'tshuva'!
82
Jun 28, 2009 at 11:08 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Violence only begets violence. You can't complain that the police are being brutal after you burn garbage cans and throw bottles at them. This isn't the Jewish way. Just read the article on Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld yesterday on VIN. If a store was open on shabbos he would sit near the entrance to the store, away from the door, and recite Tehillim. Usually the store owner closed. Violence is wrong! ”
u r %100 wrong!
if protest gonna help we defently have to protest!
83
Jun 28, 2009 at 11:03 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Has anything good happened as a result of these riots???
Wouldn't it be better for all the protestors to sit read tehillim instead of acting like lunatics in the street? ”
NO!!!!
its abselutly not batter to read thilim, we have to stop the chilul shabbos!
84
Jun 28, 2009 at 10:49 AM a Yid Says:
“ How are these people any differant in their behavior then the Taliban? "Lehavdil" they belive in using violance to further their cause.. ”
"To further "their" cause"?? Are you a Yid? Or a Christian?
85
Jun 28, 2009 at 10:30 AM Mod Orth and PROUD Says:
“ When citizens were forcibly removed from Gush Katif by soldiers, the soldiers were crying. Why? Because for the most part, the settlers behaved with dignity. Yes, they were crying out loud & protesting, but they were restrained. (They had tried more aggressive means, but it didn't work. At the end, this is what people remember!) Remember how they gave candies & brachas to the soldiers?
These so-called Charedim are like animals. Why must they do this on Shabbos? I agree with #28. A peaceful demonstration, Tehillim chanted out loud, a Shabbos morning minyan with a Sefer Torah (well, if they could carry rocks & stinky diapers they could carry a holy Sefer Torah) would have beautifully effective & dignified. And I don't believe for one minute the Gedolim who endorsed this demonstration advocated this kind of disgusting behavior, any more than I believe they encourage the Taliban-style Tznius Gangs.
Let them go back to their squalor. Anyone who is capable of gathering up & throwing dirty diapers at anyone, let a alone at a Jew, obviously doesn't care much for hygiene.
For the record, I am Chassidish. I also am ashamed of their behavior. Now it's your turn to insult me for bashing them for not keeping the holy Shabbos & for behaving so disgustingly & making such a massive Chillul Hashem. ”
I may be only Modern Orthodox, and have no beard and no payis, but I am VERY PROUD of those who protested. Someone needs to have the courage to speak out and protest the violation of our Shabbat. Thank you, Chassidim, for having the guts to do it. We should all have been there, instead of acting ashamed and embarrassed.
86
Jun 28, 2009 at 11:19 AM harav shach tzodek Says:
“ NO!!!!
its abselutly not batter to read thilim, we have to stop the chilul shabbos! ”
Stop chillul shabbos by getting more mechallelai shabbos to hate shomrai shabbos even more?
We've seen these hafganos in eretz yisrael for fifty years. Has there been a decrease in chillul shabbos?
Why not try something new?
87
Jun 28, 2009 at 11:18 AM jancsi Says:
#78 youre the biggest shaigatz of them all you think being religious is the solution to all of humanities problems you fool thats the cause of most of our problem not the solution but you are so blind you cant even see the obvious in from of youre eyes youre the king of all fools
88
Jun 28, 2009 at 11:16 AM Megahouse Says:
“ What are you talking about? Thousands demonstrated. How many threw anything, other than in self-defense? ”
Self-defense! Wow, Millehouse, I never realized you had a sense of humor. You broke me up!
89
Jun 28, 2009 at 10:26 AM Don't we have it BACKWARDS Says:
“ Isn't even the smallest bit of chillul shaim shomayim worse than chillul shabbos? ”
Oh.... there I disagree.
The very fact that we are willing to FIGHT for SHABBOS Observance is a KIDDUSH HASHEM...
How could fighting the desecrations of Hashem's Holy Shabbos be a chillal Hashem?
If anything, when Jews are silent as our Torah's commandments are trashed.... THAT IS THE BIGGEST CHILLUL HASHEM I could imagine.
We should be fighting to uphold EVERY mitzvah and commandment.
But... SHABBOS.... that is the biggie of biggies. That is mentioned by Hashem, our Creator, how many times in the Torah?
Milk and Meat is only 3 times. How many more times does Hashem command us to keep the Shabbos. He does so in so many different words and phrases... He gives us Reasons for it. He puts a CLEAR DEATH PENALTY on its violation.
One who openly violates Shabbos can't even be counted for a minyan.
We treat one who openly violates Shabbos as if he were an "Idol Worshipper"
That is not stuff from "Ultra Orthodox" Judaism.... that is just, plain Judaism.
So, to remain silent as the Shabbos is desecrated publicly is the CHILLUL HASHEM
90
Jun 28, 2009 at 10:22 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I was at the friday night davening, it was a beautiful kiddush Hashem showing how many people care about Shabbos (and most of the comments here are a chilul Hashem showing that what the media think of them is more important to them then standing up for the Torah), and as for the police, who asked them to come at all, there was no opposing protest in the vincinty for them to expect clashes which they would have to control, the only clashes they were expecting was with them, so they obviously came with the intention of causing these clashes to provide headlines for anti religious media.
And another point for all the people so worried about the leshem shomayim of all the protestors, I am assuming that is because all the mitzvos they do are 100% leshem shomayim!
”
Other people's 'mitzvos' done shelo leshaim shomayim don't cause more hatred between yiddin.
91
Jun 28, 2009 at 11:28 AM Anonymous Says:
Milhouse- do us all a favor and just write one, or the most two comments- noone can stand that you write so many comments. I can tell you most people are not reading all your comments- so again just write one or two, and no more....... and you may want to change your name as it is a little annoying... unless that's your real name.
92
Jun 28, 2009 at 12:17 PM Berl Shraga Says:
You ungratefull haredi chaps, you should know that if you throw stones, at police, even if its Zionist Police, you pay the consequences and you get arrested and dont forget that the Zionist police is protecting your behinds from Arabs while you seat and learn and dont work,
93
Jun 28, 2009 at 11:57 AM Anonymous Says:
“ democracy???
why can't Jews go onto Temple Mount?
Oh...you don't want to offend the Muslims...but to offend Jews is perfectly Ok?
I can't stand when the lefty loonies yellllll DEMOCRACY ”
Let me give you a readers digest lesson in democracy, when some owns a property you just cannot go in there and do what you want, as for now the temple mount has a mosque on it, so if they don’t want you into there are of worship that is there prerogative so why are you dishonest
94
Jun 28, 2009 at 11:43 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Differnet? I do not see any difference. These monsters are ready to beat up Jews who are willing to risk their safety to stand up for upholding Shabbos.!!!!
Our fellow Jews are being treated like we were treated in Pogroms..... but today it is my fellow Jews in Israel.
Jews SHOULD protest violating the Shabbat. If we don't; who will???
If following G-d commandments so unimportant to us that it is "Okay" to open parking lots on Shabbat?
Are we now worshiping "Democracy" and Politcial correctness more that G-d's Torah?
Are we now too "embarrassed" to stick up for our Torah? ”
You closing your eyes to history, during the pogroms the Jew locked themselves into the Beth Hamedrash or the cemetery so if they die they would die in a holy place here you have hooligans throwing rocks dirty diapers burn garbage cans. This noting like our forefather sufferings You’re Millhousing us with your blatant dishonesty
95
Jun 28, 2009 at 12:53 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Let me give you a readers digest lesson in democracy, when some owns a property you just cannot go in there and do what you want, as for now the temple mount has a mosque on it, so if they don’t want you into there are of worship that is there prerogative so why are you dishonest ”
sheigatz...
temple mount belong to us Yiden... u and ur muslim brothers can go else where.
what are you going to cry about this tishu b'av? u must be from those who will be throwing rocks at moshiach
96
Jun 28, 2009 at 01:16 PM Anonymous Says:
“ sheigatz...
temple mount belong to us Yiden... u and ur muslim brothers can go else where.
what are you going to cry about this tishu b'av? u must be from those who will be throwing rocks at moshiach ”
Stop stop stop!! Not brother’s just cousins, if you have a claim to the temple mount go to court why are you insinuating that I will not mourn the destruction of the Temple on Tishu B'av, are you a Millhouse now
97
Jun 28, 2009 at 01:13 PM Anonymous Says:
“ When I See The Picture How The Israeli Police Arresting Protestors It Reminds Me From Iran! ”
Thats why they call them "nazis"
98
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:49 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Oh.... there I disagree.
The very fact that we are willing to FIGHT for SHABBOS Observance is a KIDDUSH HASHEM...
How could fighting the desecrations of Hashem's Holy Shabbos be a chillal Hashem?
If anything, when Jews are silent as our Torah's commandments are trashed.... THAT IS THE BIGGEST CHILLUL HASHEM I could imagine.
We should be fighting to uphold EVERY mitzvah and commandment.
But... SHABBOS.... that is the biggie of biggies. That is mentioned by Hashem, our Creator, how many times in the Torah?
Milk and Meat is only 3 times. How many more times does Hashem command us to keep the Shabbos. He does so in so many different words and phrases... He gives us Reasons for it. He puts a CLEAR DEATH PENALTY on its violation.
One who openly violates Shabbos can't even be counted for a minyan.
We treat one who openly violates Shabbos as if he were an "Idol Worshipper"
That is not stuff from "Ultra Orthodox" Judaism.... that is just, plain Judaism.
So, to remain silent as the Shabbos is desecrated publicly is the CHILLUL HASHEM
”
how right you very well said
99
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:48 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Stop stop stop!! Not brother’s just cousins, if you have a claim to the temple mount go to court why are you insinuating that I will not mourn the destruction of the Temple on Tishu B'av, are you a Millhouse now ”
What has a court got to do with it. Do you deny that the Har Habayis belongs to the Jewish people? I'll say right out that you do not mourn the destruction of the Temple, because you would be against rebuilding it if we had the opportunity.
100
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:44 PM Milhouse Says:
“ You closing your eyes to history, during the pogroms the Jew locked themselves into the Beth Hamedrash or the cemetery so if they die they would die in a holy place here you have hooligans throwing rocks dirty diapers burn garbage cans. This noting like our forefather sufferings You’re Millhousing us with your blatant dishonesty ”
Do you really expect us to believe that the Jews didn't fight when they had a chance to? That they just locked themselves up and waited to die, because they were pacifists who think it wrong to resist force with force? You must have us confused with Mennonites, who would willingly be slaughtered rather than raise a hand against another person. Whenever Jews had the opportunity to fight for their lives and safety they fought.
101
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:41 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Let me give you a readers digest lesson in democracy, when some owns a property you just cannot go in there and do what you want, as for now the temple mount has a mosque on it, so if they don’t want you into there are of worship that is there prerogative so why are you dishonest ”
It's NOT THEIR PROPERTY. It's our property. Dovid Hamelech bought it for 600 golden shekel. What difference does it make that there are a few mosques in the area? If there's a mosque on my block, does that mean I can't go outside?
(And why does Israel allow the mosque to function in the first place? If someone built a mosque on my property I wouldn't allow them to use it. In '67 Israel could have closed all access to the Har Habayis and nobody would have protested, but Moshe Dayan decided to hand it all over to the Waqf.)
102
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:32 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Milhouse- do us all a favor and just write one, or the most two comments- noone can stand that you write so many comments. I can tell you most people are not reading all your comments- so again just write one or two, and no more....... and you may want to change your name as it is a little annoying... unless that's your real name. ”
And now you're a mind reader.
103
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:31 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Self-defense! Wow, Millehouse, I never realized you had a sense of humor. You broke me up! ”
A fool will laugh when nothing funny has been said. I'm glad I could brighten a fool's day.
104
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:26 PM Milhouse Says:
“ #78 youre the biggest shaigatz of them all you think being religious is the solution to all of humanities problems you fool thats the cause of most of our problem not the solution but you are so blind you cant even see the obvious in from of youre eyes youre the king of all fools ”
So here we have it. Jancsi openly says that being religious is "the cause of most of our problem". And he has the chutzpah to protest being called a shaigetz? Fool, you are the very definition of a shaigetz! You've as good as openly admitted to not being religious! So what are you doing on VIN in the first place?
I proudly maintain that "being religious is the solution to all of humanities problems", and anyone who disagrees with that is by definition not an Orthodox Jew, and therefore should mind his manners on a site that claims to be "the voice of the Orthodox Jewish community".
105
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:15 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Stop chillul shabbos by getting more mechallelai shabbos to hate shomrai shabbos even more?
We've seen these hafganos in eretz yisrael for fifty years. Has there been a decrease in chillul shabbos?
Why not try something new? ”
Yes, actually, there has been a massive decrease in chilul shabbos over the years. And like it or not hafgonos have achieved a lot.
106
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:10 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Isn't even the smallest bit of chillul shaim shomayim worse than chillul shabbos? ”
Yes, but not the way you mean it. Allowing public chilul shabbos to go by without protest is the biggest chilul shem shomayim.
107
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:07 PM kal Says:
i have said this before,
i only hope that the motivation of the protestors is truly that of kanaus.otherwise,sadly there is no question that there is no question that this is a chillul haShem of the tallest order.being that i DON'T know,& for that matter,CAN'T POSSIBLY though
i,for one can only wish i was on such a level that Shabbos mattered enough to cause me to physically defend it.which brings me to my point:it amuses me that so many of the comments are critical,with the "commentators"(pun intended),choose to hide behind the mask of anonymity.
...intriguing!!!
108
Jun 28, 2009 at 03:34 PM harav shach tzodaik Says:
“ So here we have it. Jancsi openly says that being religious is "the cause of most of our problem". And he has the chutzpah to protest being called a shaigetz? Fool, you are the very definition of a shaigetz! You've as good as openly admitted to not being religious! So what are you doing on VIN in the first place?
I proudly maintain that "being religious is the solution to all of humanities problems", and anyone who disagrees with that is by definition not an Orthodox Jew, and therefore should mind his manners on a site that claims to be "the voice of the Orthodox Jewish community". ”
Nothing wrong with what Jansci wrote. Reb Yisroel Salanter a"h said the most dangeous person in the world is a yid on his way to do a mitzvah.
A yid needs to worry about his own ruchni'us and other yidden's gashmi'us.
Nothing good ever came out of worrying about one's own gashmi'us and yenem's ruchni'us.
Only good would come out of every frum person making sure his chiloni neighbor has challah and kugal for shabbos and a place to come for a real seudas shabbos.
All this anger and hate is counter productive and has nothing to do with kana'us.
109
Jun 28, 2009 at 03:17 PM Anonymous Says:
“ It's NOT THEIR PROPERTY. It's our property. Dovid Hamelech bought it for 600 golden shekel. What difference does it make that there are a few mosques in the area? If there's a mosque on my block, does that mean I can't go outside?
(And why does Israel allow the mosque to function in the first place? If someone built a mosque on my property I wouldn't allow them to use it. In '67 Israel could have closed all access to the Har Habayis and nobody would have protested, but Moshe Dayan decided to hand it all over to the Waqf.) ”
Therefore, if you have a squatter go to court that is the way the law works. However, you will prefer the Millhouse way take it.
110
Jun 28, 2009 at 03:14 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Do you really expect us to believe that the Jews didn't fight when they had a chance to? That they just locked themselves up and waited to die, because they were pacifists who think it wrong to resist force with force? You must have us confused with Mennonites, who would willingly be slaughtered rather than raise a hand against another person. Whenever Jews had the opportunity to fight for their lives and safety they fought. ”
As I said before you will twist history to benefit the Millhouse view, I cannot find one instance in the Europan or Russian programs that the Jews protested the programs. You are just making up a new Jewish history to benefit the Millhouses of this world.
111
Jun 28, 2009 at 03:48 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Therefore, if you have a squatter go to court that is the way the law works. However, you will prefer the Millhouse way take it. ”
What court are you talking about? Do you dispute that the Har Habayis belongs to us? Yes or no?
112
Jun 28, 2009 at 03:47 PM Milhouse Says:
“ As I said before you will twist history to benefit the Millhouse view, I cannot find one instance in the Europan or Russian programs that the Jews protested the programs. You are just making up a new Jewish history to benefit the Millhouses of this world. ”
What "programs" are you talking about? Social security? Or vaudeville shows? And what sort of "protests" were you looking for? Did you expect a mass rally against the Crusades? A sit-in at the Kremlin? One thing is certain; if you think Jews are pacifists, and that Jews under attack didn't fight to defend themselves whenever they had the chance, you're insane.
113
Jun 28, 2009 at 03:55 PM harav shach tzodaik Says:
“ Yes, actually, there has been a massive decrease in chilul shabbos over the years. And like it or not hafgonos have achieved a lot. ”
Chillul shabbos has not decreased, it has just been kept out of the frum neighborhoods. No one ever stop drivng on shabbos because last week he got a rock thru his windshield. At best he found a different route but he is still mechalil shabbos.
114
Jun 28, 2009 at 04:33 PM moish Says:
“ Chillul shabbos has not decreased, it has just been kept out of the frum neighborhoods. No one ever stop drivng on shabbos because last week he got a rock thru his windshield. At best he found a different route but he is still mechalil shabbos. ”
Chilul shabbos on a public scale (which is much more of a chilul Hashem) has definitely been kept in check. Remember that if not for the chareidim standing strong on the status quo since the beginning of the medina, shabbos would look like any other day of the week, and although much chilul shabbos takes place unfortunately, there is a clear rememberance of the day of rest from the many public services and shops etc. that are closed.
115
Jun 28, 2009 at 07:47 PM Elie # 1 Says:
“ I am on the side of #1 ..... In situations like this, one has to ask 'What does Hashem want us to do, to stand up for Kedushas Shabbos?'..... I have a hard time believing that this is what Hashem wants us to do - to go out ther which by all accounts is a matzav sakono and to be throwing stones and bottles and other objects (which by the way a lot of these objects are muktza) and throwing them at police officers. I am going to have a hard time being convinced that this what Hashem wants Yidden to do on Shabbos. And so #1 is right that there are many better ways to stand up for kedushas Shabbos. I'm sure many of you would agree with me. ”
Baruch Chonen Hada'as.
Thank you for understanding my point.
116
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:05 PM Elie #1 Says:
“ NO!!!!
its abselutly not batter to read thilim, we have to stop the chilul shabbos! ”
And how exactly was this protest stopping Chilul Shabbos????
What is worst Chillul Shabbos or Chillul Hashem?
117
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:10 PM purple Says:
moshiach is not here, israel is not run according to halacha or the torah - we need to face that fact. while jewish ppl live in the land of israel - we are not "free" in the land of israel - and israel is run by a secular gov't .... as this is the case we can not expect that our halachos will be kept by the general public - it just wont happen.
118
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:08 PM purple Says:
Shmiros Shabbos is important - however the way that these demonstrators went about shouting their position was a big chillul hashem. They should have voiced their concerns and even anger over the situation...and pulled every legal string they have - but do throw stones and vegtables and other yidden is completely ridiculous and a disgusting chillul hashem.
119
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:46 PM Elie # 1 Says:
“ You obviously dont understand the significance of shmiros shabbos or you wouldn't criticize the demonstators who take these things very seriously. ”
You think throwing rocks and dirty diapers Constitutes Shmiras Shabbos?
Go learn some Hilchos Shabbos before you respond to this!!!
120
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:44 PM Elie # 1 Says:
“ u call protestors with mesiras nefesf for kvod shabbos, "lunetics"?!
r u not ashamed of urself for siding with the zionist heartless police?! ”
You obviously don't know what true kvod Shabbos is.
I'm not siding with the zionists at all, but not with Violent Lunatics who use kvod shabbos as any excuse for their Stupid behavior!
121
Jun 29, 2009 at 05:48 PM You Said it Right Says:
“ Oh.... there I disagree.
The very fact that we are willing to FIGHT for SHABBOS Observance is a KIDDUSH HASHEM...
How could fighting the desecrations of Hashem's Holy Shabbos be a chillal Hashem?
If anything, when Jews are silent as our Torah's commandments are trashed.... THAT IS THE BIGGEST CHILLUL HASHEM I could imagine.
We should be fighting to uphold EVERY mitzvah and commandment.
But... SHABBOS.... that is the biggie of biggies. That is mentioned by Hashem, our Creator, how many times in the Torah?
Milk and Meat is only 3 times. How many more times does Hashem command us to keep the Shabbos. He does so in so many different words and phrases... He gives us Reasons for it. He puts a CLEAR DEATH PENALTY on its violation.
One who openly violates Shabbos can't even be counted for a minyan.
We treat one who openly violates Shabbos as if he were an "Idol Worshipper"
That is not stuff from "Ultra Orthodox" Judaism.... that is just, plain Judaism.
So, to remain silent as the Shabbos is desecrated publicly is the CHILLUL HASHEM
”
What you wrote should be published.
Thank you. You said it right.