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Jerusalem - Death Threats Sent to Mayor Following Parking Lot Riots |
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Security at Barkat's office has been increased following the threats, and police have opened an investigation.
Barkat's bureau issued a statement Sunday vowing that Barkat will not change his decision to open the parking lot.
Despite the ultra-Orthodox protesters' attempts to block the parking lot entrance in the afternoon, hundreds of cars were able to park there successfully on Saturday.
The Mayor's bureau said that the lot solved the problems of parking and public safety in Jerusalem's Old City.
"The mayor is obligated to maintain the public's safety and this concern is what guides him," said a Barkat spokesperson. "The police must now be concerned with public order."
In the wake of the protests, Barkat's security detail has been reinforced and a security guard has been placed outside of his home.
Numerous Haredi leaders from various factions, including Shas spiritual leader Ovadia Yosef and Rabbi Shalom Elyashiv, a leader of the Lithuanian Haredi community, joined the call to hold the mass prayer session after the protest was initially led by Eda Haredit, an extremist ultra-Orthodox group.
Protesters attacked journalists who were covering the events, including Channel 2 reporter Dafna Liel who had to cut short a live report.
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Read Comments (59) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:20 PM GEDOLIM ARE GR8 Says:
Pay attention that the gedolim only sai to have a massive prayer
in judiasm we don't have violence in our prayers
2
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:15 PM Yakov Litz Says:
The threat was no doubt sent by Barkat's own people to villify the Chareidim. Standard Israeli procedure.
3
Jun 28, 2009 at 02:10 PM Bunimfrombrooklyn Says:
The gedolim would never want this chillul Hashem
this will just end up all over the news where the readers will just equate this whole situation like what's going on in Tehran
4
Jun 28, 2009 at 03:21 PM |Not In My Name, Please Says:
With all due respect to the Gedolim, this whole situation is a fiasco, and should have been handled completely differently. Behind the scenes negotiations, financial pressure etc would have been a lot more effective, but then, there would be no splash, would there?
If they are truly concerned with long-term observance of Shabbos, they should pay heed that these tactics turn people AWAY from Shabbos observance, not towards it.
How about a PR campaign, how about inviting a not-yet-shabbos-observant Jew to share a beautiful table, how about darchei noam vdarchei shalom? How about making a kiddush shem shomayim instead of ch'v the opposite which is happening now, not only in Eretz Yisrael, but in the worldwide media?
5
Jun 28, 2009 at 03:20 PM Anonymous Says:
Wouldn't be surprised if the investigation will prove the threaths were made by the chilonim.
6
Jun 28, 2009 at 03:15 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The threat was no doubt sent by Barkat's own people to villify the Chareidim. Standard Israeli procedure. ”
agreed! Notice not a single newspaper has quoted any of the gadolim on the incidents? No they harass the charedi and instigate problems by sticking a camera in their faces.
7
Jun 28, 2009 at 03:52 PM Milhouse Says:
“ With all due respect to the Gedolim, this whole situation is a fiasco, and should have been handled completely differently. Behind the scenes negotiations, financial pressure etc would have been a lot more effective, but then, there would be no splash, would there?
If they are truly concerned with long-term observance of Shabbos, they should pay heed that these tactics turn people AWAY from Shabbos observance, not towards it.
How about a PR campaign, how about inviting a not-yet-shabbos-observant Jew to share a beautiful table, how about darchei noam vdarchei shalom? How about making a kiddush shem shomayim instead of ch'v the opposite which is happening now, not only in Eretz Yisrael, but in the worldwide media?
”
Funny, "not in my name" is precisely what the protests are all about. They are making it clear to the world that when the city, acting in the name of all Yerushalmim, opens the parking lots, it does not act in the names of those who showed up to the protests. Those who didn't show up appear by their silence to agree that the city acted in their names.
8
Jun 28, 2009 at 04:06 PM Anonymous Says:
Rav Yosef and Rav Eliyashav need to reconsider their poorly concieved support for these demonstrations and protests before somone gets seriously huts or chas va'cahlilah, somthing worse. Barkat has made reasonable efforts to accomodate hareidi concerns about chilul shabbos in their neighborhoods but the hareidi leaders have said NO. The democratically elected mayor has to follow the law and the desires of the majority of the citizens of Y'jlm who are not frum and do not want to be forced to be shomer shabbos.
9
Jun 28, 2009 at 04:05 PM Anonymous Says:
“ agreed! Notice not a single newspaper has quoted any of the gadolim on the incidents? No they harass the charedi and instigate problems by sticking a camera in their faces. ”
I don’t remember you accusing the press of shoving cameras in Madoff face, oh that was ok he was not from the Eda Haredit stop your B*
10
Jun 28, 2009 at 03:44 PM Anonymous Says:
“ With all due respect to the Gedolim, this whole situation is a fiasco, and should have been handled completely differently. Behind the scenes negotiations, financial pressure etc would have been a lot more effective, but then, there would be no splash, would there?
If they are truly concerned with long-term observance of Shabbos, they should pay heed that these tactics turn people AWAY from Shabbos observance, not towards it.
How about a PR campaign, how about inviting a not-yet-shabbos-observant Jew to share a beautiful table, how about darchei noam vdarchei shalom? How about making a kiddush shem shomayim instead of ch'v the opposite which is happening now, not only in Eretz Yisrael, but in the worldwide media?
”
fool. don't you think that all the above things are done as well??
you don't know who you are dealing with here. there are secularists here in israel that are a whole different species than any not frum person you'll meet in the u.s.
11
Jun 28, 2009 at 03:44 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Wouldn't be surprised if the investigation will prove the threaths were made by the chilonim. ”
And if they do, wouldn’t that show you that the police are doing a good job and not covering up. No, you would never ever say anything good about police officer who only does a job.
12
Jun 28, 2009 at 04:45 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Rav Yosef and Rav Eliyashav need to reconsider their poorly concieved support for these demonstrations and protests before somone gets seriously huts or chas va'cahlilah, somthing worse. Barkat has made reasonable efforts to accomodate hareidi concerns about chilul shabbos in their neighborhoods but the hareidi leaders have said NO. The democratically elected mayor has to follow the law and the desires of the majority of the citizens of Y'jlm who are not frum and do not want to be forced to be shomer shabbos. ”
There is NO way the Rabbonim can accomodate Chillul Shabbos, its out of their hands, you see, we jews have torah that just doesnt allow it. What is so reasonable about opening up a parkinglot for tourists "not Jrslm citizens" a block away from Mea Shearim, where "jrslm citizens" who dont want it live.
13
Jun 28, 2009 at 04:40 PM Anonymous Says:
Kedushas shabbos is not a joke. You cant take it lightly. Protests for shabbos koidesh are obviously not kiruv ventures (shout out to some of the earlier commentators) showing how beautiful a nice home cooked friday night dinner is you people! they are protests!!!! and that is what needs to be done to prevent chillul shabbos and stand up for shabbos when people are trampleing on it! uproaor! Be upset! scream how dare you trampel on the mitzvos in the palace of the King!!
14
Jun 28, 2009 at 04:39 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Rav Yosef and Rav Eliyashav need to reconsider their poorly concieved support for these demonstrations and protests before somone gets seriously huts or chas va'cahlilah, somthing worse. Barkat has made reasonable efforts to accomodate hareidi concerns about chilul shabbos in their neighborhoods but the hareidi leaders have said NO. The democratically elected mayor has to follow the law and the desires of the majority of the citizens of Y'jlm who are not frum and do not want to be forced to be shomer shabbos. ”
You have a lot of chutzpah to use such wording about two of our biggest gedolim today! How dare a little brain like yours say that R' Elyashiv and R' Ovadya Yosef Shlita's have made a poorly conceived decision??!! Wow you'd better watch your mouth or rather your keyboard!
15
Jun 28, 2009 at 04:36 PM kal Says:
eida chareidis portrayed as "extremists"?!
but wait,just look at the source-haaretz,the left-wing rag which delighted in denouncing the recent war as a "crime"!
now it's (sadly) clear.Yiddishe antiSemitin are always to be most feared-& held with the most disdain!
btw #4,pity i cant quote you b'sheim amro!
& #8 has gone on record as a PR consultant to gedolim,albeit "anonymously".
what bravery!
(sarcasm intended)!
16
Jun 28, 2009 at 04:34 PM Anonymous Says:
“ With all due respect to the Gedolim, this whole situation is a fiasco, and should have been handled completely differently. Behind the scenes negotiations, financial pressure etc would have been a lot more effective, but then, there would be no splash, would there?
If they are truly concerned with long-term observance of Shabbos, they should pay heed that these tactics turn people AWAY from Shabbos observance, not towards it.
How about a PR campaign, how about inviting a not-yet-shabbos-observant Jew to share a beautiful table, how about darchei noam vdarchei shalom? How about making a kiddush shem shomayim instead of ch'v the opposite which is happening now, not only in Eretz Yisrael, but in the worldwide media?
”
Get it straight, this has nothing to do with the Kiruv buissnes. This is about keeping the status qoe in Jerusalem. Everything is just fine ,why do people try to make things "better". The parkinglot in question is a 20 minute walk to the old city walls, and right down the block of Meah Shearim and Haneviem which has a 100% "EXTREMIST ULTRA ORTHODOX HAREIDY" population.
17
Jun 28, 2009 at 04:30 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The threat was no doubt sent by Barkat's own people to villify the Chareidim. Standard Israeli procedure. ”
Yes, I agree, though it could have been the work of a lone meshuggener.
18
Jun 28, 2009 at 04:57 PM Anonymous Says:
people have to relax jews are not the only people who come to israel to vist. there needs to b place park this parking lot will keep the streets a little quit and empty b/c people won't b circling looking for parking. also u can't force people to be religious u want to b ultra orthadax b that but don't force other people to conform. people have to find their own way. no one is telling the ultra orthadax to b mechellah shabbos. they r being told that there is a parking lot for people to park in that is all. I don't understand why they r going crazy.
19
Jun 28, 2009 at 05:48 PM Anonymous Says:
Would someone please explain what's the difference between NYC and Israel, Why is NYC alloweded to open parking lots and not israel? Sice Israel is longer a jewish state
20
Jun 28, 2009 at 05:44 PM Anonymous Says:
Does any one have the mayors email address ?
21
Jun 28, 2009 at 05:42 PM HolyMoe Says:
This Chillul Shabbos is OUR OWN FAULT.
Don't blame it on the non-religious,
If we had all gone out and voted for the frum candidate, there would be no Chilul Shabbos
.
Our laziness (or stupid machlokkes) is directly responsible.
It probably makes you feel holy and good to yell :Shabbos, Shabbos" at others.
We should be yelling "Shabbos, Shabbos" to ourselves.
BECAUSE WE CAUSED THE CHILLUL SHABBOS.
22
Jun 28, 2009 at 05:38 PM Truth Be Told Says:
Which authentic Gadol ever called for violence against Jewish Shabbos violators? Any so-called frum Jew using violence against Jewish Shabbos violators is himself a Chiloni fraud and hooligan.
In Israel we have masses of angry, frustrated, idle, and impoverished Chareidim, many of whom can neither learn all day, nor can they join the army or get a secular education, nor can they become productive citizens in Israeli society. They therefore explode with a violent fury at the "Chilonim" and the "Tziyonim" at every real or imagined provocation.
Had these Chareidim chosen to become fully Torah observant but rational, productive, integrated citizens of Israel, they would not have the time, energy, or aggression to explode in anger at every violation of Torah law by the so-called "Chilonim".
If violent Chareidim were to return to a national and rational halachic Judaism, a core of Torah hating leftist Chilonim might remain in Israel, but many Chilonim might gain some respect for Judaism and might draw closer to Torah observance.
23
Jun 28, 2009 at 05:20 PM Moshe Horowitz Says:
#18 - you are of course right. But the extremists feel they have to have control of a city in the medina they don't hold of. They have every right to protest but they can't just leave it at that - they need to get violent. I'll bet the chillul Hashem they cause is much worse than the chillul shabbos that is happening anyway (from a halacha standpoint). It's a total turn off to "frumkeit"
24
Jun 28, 2009 at 05:02 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You have a lot of chutzpah to use such wording about two of our biggest gedolim today! How dare a little brain like yours say that R' Elyashiv and R' Ovadya Yosef Shlita's have made a poorly conceived decision??!! Wow you'd better watch your mouth or rather your keyboard! ”
No one is questioning whether or not they are gadolim. the posting says the decision in support of a political demonstration against the mayor's decision was pooly concieved because of the potential risks to the safety of both the demonstrators and police given the high level of emotions. We do not have to agree with rabbonim on every decision they make, especially when it crosses over into the political sphere, and the term "poorly concieved" is not disrepectful or questioning their daas torah.
25
Jun 28, 2009 at 04:58 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I don’t remember you accusing the press of shoving cameras in Madoff face, oh that was ok he was not from the Eda Haredit stop your B* ”
First of all the photographers where taking pictures ON SHABBOS, thus desecrating it. And on Sunday they contiued to photograph Jews who they know dont like having their pictures taken! The Charedi are merely defending themselves from what are intentional attacks, regardless of how unbelievable that is to your western mind. Which brings me to your comparison of Bernie Madoff. Bernie Madoff doesnt care about Hashem or Torah and he certainly isnt a Torah Jew, so why compare the two? You suggesting that the charedi are like Bernie Madof? You should thank the charedi for saving what little Holiness and Jewish identity is left in Israel!
26
Jun 28, 2009 at 06:00 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Rav Yosef and Rav Eliyashav need to reconsider their poorly concieved support for these demonstrations and protests before somone gets seriously huts or chas va'cahlilah, somthing worse. Barkat has made reasonable efforts to accomodate hareidi concerns about chilul shabbos in their neighborhoods but the hareidi leaders have said NO. The democratically elected mayor has to follow the law and the desires of the majority of the citizens of Y'jlm who are not frum and do not want to be forced to be shomer shabbos. ”
No, he needs to repent and follow the Torah.
27
Jun 28, 2009 at 06:07 PM Anonymous Says:
Yerushlam: Pashkivilen Thrown Against Gav"d Y-M by the Kanuim, their Angry After he Met with Chaver Hakneset Yankel Litzman & also that he Took away from them the Kanuis Against the Parking Lot, they Write he Should Return to Antwerpen!
28
Jun 28, 2009 at 06:05 PM Milhouse Says:
“ And if they do, wouldn’t that show you that the police are doing a good job and not covering up. No, you would never ever say anything good about police officer who only does a job. ”
Stop trying to sell us a bill of goods. The Israeli police are a known quantity. It's not as if they're new on the scene and we're trying to form an opinion of them. We already know by long experience what sort of people they are. So no, admitting the truth in one case is not going to undo all that history and make us believe something we know not to be true.
29
Jun 28, 2009 at 06:14 PM Not doochay Says:
“ You have a lot of chutzpah to use such wording about two of our biggest gedolim today! How dare a little brain like yours say that R' Elyashiv and R' Ovadya Yosef Shlita's have made a poorly conceived decision??!! Wow you'd better watch your mouth or rather your keyboard! ”
I agree
people should watch what they say against the greatest people in the world
especially when talking about Rav Elyashiv and Rab Ovadya
30
Jun 28, 2009 at 06:10 PM Milhouse Says:
“ people have to relax jews are not the only people who come to israel to vist. there needs to b place park this parking lot will keep the streets a little quit and empty b/c people won't b circling looking for parking. also u can't force people to be religious u want to b ultra orthadax b that but don't force other people to conform. people have to find their own way. no one is telling the ultra orthadax to b mechellah shabbos. they r being told that there is a parking lot for people to park in that is all. I don't understand why they r going crazy. ”
What has this got to do with "ultra orthadax", as if not driving on Shabbos is some kind of extremist position. Do you think normal Orthodox Jews think it's OK to drive on Shabbos?!
31
Jun 28, 2009 at 06:11 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Would someone please explain what's the difference between NYC and Israel, Why is NYC alloweded to open parking lots and not israel? Sice Israel is longer a jewish state ”
Because Y'm is a Jewish city, and it acts in the name of its residents. NYC is not a Jewish city.
32
Jun 28, 2009 at 07:11 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Because Y'm is a Jewish city, and it acts in the name of its residents. NYC is not a Jewish city. ”
Since over 70 percent of jews in eret yisroel are not shomer shabbos, the government will never pass laws requiring them to do and even if they did, the courts would throw out such a law. Hopefully, over time, more jews will recognize the importance of keeping the shabbos but there is absolutly no way to force them to do so. The hareidim have the same legal right to peacefully protest as secular jews have to drive on shabbos. That is the wonderful part of israel being a democracy.
33
Jun 28, 2009 at 07:07 PM green Says:
“ The gedolim would never want this chillul Hashem
this will just end up all over the news where the readers will just equate this whole situation like what's going on in Tehran ”
How Dare you compare protests of freedom to protests of coercion?
34
Jun 28, 2009 at 07:06 PM Anonymous Says:
“ First of all the photographers where taking pictures ON SHABBOS, thus desecrating it. And on Sunday they contiued to photograph Jews who they know dont like having their pictures taken! The Charedi are merely defending themselves from what are intentional attacks, regardless of how unbelievable that is to your western mind. Which brings me to your comparison of Bernie Madoff. Bernie Madoff doesnt care about Hashem or Torah and he certainly isnt a Torah Jew, so why compare the two? You suggesting that the charedi are like Bernie Madof? You should thank the charedi for saving what little Holiness and Jewish identity is left in Israel! ”
Under the law in EY it is legal to take the picture of anyone on a public street. They may not like it any more than celebrities and politicians don't like the papparazi taking their pictures but it is legal and and anyone who attacks a photographer based on their personal preferences will go to jail.
35
Jun 28, 2009 at 07:30 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Since over 70 percent of jews in eret yisroel are not shomer shabbos, the government will never pass laws requiring them to do and even if they did, the courts would throw out such a law. Hopefully, over time, more jews will recognize the importance of keeping the shabbos but there is absolutly no way to force them to do so. The hareidim have the same legal right to peacefully protest as secular jews have to drive on shabbos. That is the wonderful part of israel being a democracy. ”
Nobody's demanding laws forcing everyone to keep shabbos. The time for that is not yet. But nothing forces the city to break shabbos, or to facilitate chilul shabbos. The parking lot was closed before a few weeks ago; what forces it to be open now?
36
Jun 28, 2009 at 07:47 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Under the law in EY it is legal to take the picture of anyone on a public street. They may not like it any more than celebrities and politicians don't like the papparazi taking their pictures but it is legal and and anyone who attacks a photographer based on their personal preferences will go to jail. ”
You are right 100% and thats why the medinah is a teyfah state! It is Zionism NOT Torah Judaism!
37
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:04 PM Anonymous Says:
All decisions are up to the mayer to have one Municipal lot open on shabbos or they can park at the chareidi peoples houses and see how they like it.
38
Jun 28, 2009 at 06:44 PM Anonymous Says:
in people riot on shabbos dont you think the press will be there. ??? what a massive chilul hashem. am sorry the rabonim are out of touch.
39
Jun 28, 2009 at 06:34 PM Sirens Says:
“ Because Y'm is a Jewish city, and it acts in the name of its residents. NYC is not a Jewish city. ”
Milhouse milhouse
if NYC isn't Jewish why do we have sirens and songs going off every erev shabbos just like the have in Y-M????
40
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:28 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You are right 100% and thats why the medinah is a teyfah state! It is Zionism NOT Torah Judaism! ”
The medinah was not founded to be a torah state and has never claimed to be so. It is a jewish state for yiddin of all "dednominations". The challenge will be for them to learn to live together...I'm more optimistic about long-term peace with chamas than I am regarding peace and respect between the hareidim and chilonim
41
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:24 PM ZR Says:
“ This Chillul Shabbos is OUR OWN FAULT.
Don't blame it on the non-religious,
If we had all gone out and voted for the frum candidate, there would be no Chilul Shabbos
.
Our laziness (or stupid machlokkes) is directly responsible.
It probably makes you feel holy and good to yell :Shabbos, Shabbos" at others.
We should be yelling "Shabbos, Shabbos" to ourselves.
BECAUSE WE CAUSED THE CHILLUL SHABBOS. ”
You could also add: the fact there are thousands of Jews in EY who havn't heard of Rabbi Akivah, who haven’t even heard of Yom kippur, is a partial fault of the all the frummer Yidden.
If all chareidim, not just chabad, put in the energy and effort to reach out to their fellow yidden in a positive productive manner, EY would look allot different than it looks today.
If the Chareidim put as much effort as their political manoeuvres to gain money, not only for their own yeshivahs, but also all yidden in EY to receive some sort of Jewish education, we wouldn't have the situation today where hundreds of thousands of Yidden don't know what shabbos is, don't know what Yom Kippur is.
The current situation of the two sides as implacable foes, reflects the utter failure of the current "I'll take care of my community first and forget the rest" mentality.
Kol Yisroel areivim zeh lazeh.
42
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:23 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Would someone please explain what's the difference between NYC and Israel, Why is NYC alloweded to open parking lots and not israel? Sice Israel is longer a jewish state ”
because it is g-ds city , and it is filled with jews. we need not be concerned with non jewish "chilul shabbos" for the record the city overall (offices,busses etc) does sut down on shabbos.
here the people opposing the shmiras shabbos are often yiddin, not non-jews who want their right to do as they please.
how sad that we must combat other jews just to upkeep our heritage
43
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:48 PM pityu Says:
the chareidim live in a time warp but they want all the convinience of a modern world which means they want to eat their cake and have it too on top of that they want to dictate to others how they should live their lifes this is the same as with the muhlas of iran luckily they the chareidim dont have weapons
44
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:44 PM Anonymous Says:
“ No, he needs to repent and follow the Torah. ”
When the mayor of Yerushalayim was sworn into his office, he had to promise to uphold the civil laws not halacha. The public officials should always try to conform the civil law and halacha and in certain matters such as marriage and divorce, the religious laws are the applicable standard. However, when it comes to shabbos observance etc., there are no civil laws that prohibit driving and parking on public streets and the mayor would be acting contrary to law if he tried to impose shabbos observance. i know you will say halacha should trump the civil law, but thats not how it works in Israel.
45
Jun 28, 2009 at 08:33 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Nobody's demanding laws forcing everyone to keep shabbos. The time for that is not yet. But nothing forces the city to break shabbos, or to facilitate chilul shabbos. The parking lot was closed before a few weeks ago; what forces it to be open now? ”
What do you mean "the time is not yet" for laws forcing everyone to keep shabbos. B'yh, such an oppressive legal regime will hopefully never happen in our lifetime. The freedom of jews to live their lives without government intervention or mandates and without fear of persecution if they want to be frumme is the most wonderful part of EY.
46
Jun 28, 2009 at 09:02 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Under the law in EY it is legal to take the picture of anyone on a public street. They may not like it any more than celebrities and politicians don't like the papparazi taking their pictures but it is legal and and anyone who attacks a photographer based on their personal preferences will go to jail. ”
You say that with such glee. I'll bet if an Amish person protested against being photographed you'd be singing a different tune. Of course Amish are pacifists, and won't raise a hand against someone even in self defense; you could kill them and they wouldn't fight back. You also seem to think that threats can settle a dispute. "I'm right because if you disagree with me you'll go to jail" makes no more sense than "I'm right because if you disagree with me I'll punch you in the face". Well, here's the deal: it may be that anyone who attacks a photographer will go to jail, but it's just as true that any Jewish photographer who shoves a camera in a religious person's face on Shabbos will get hurt. According to your logic that proves the photographers are wrong.
47
Jun 28, 2009 at 09:03 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Milhouse milhouse
if NYC isn't Jewish why do we have sirens and songs going off every erev shabbos just like the have in Y-M???? ”
Because people sound them. Why do you think it happens? Magic?
48
Jun 28, 2009 at 09:26 PM Bunimfrombrooklyn Says:
“ How Dare you compare protests of freedom to protests of coercion? ”
Greeny,
I'm not comparing anything I'm a chareidi Jew
just when on fox news these two stories are back to back that will feed all the readers to turn there eyeballs away from israel as if saying "oh those Israelis can't even get themselves straight" which is what people are saying about the tehranians
and don't we love it when the Hamas and fatah fight, that just shows the world how dumb they look
49
Jun 28, 2009 at 10:32 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Because people sound them. Why do you think it happens? Magic? ”
No. It is because of a nes m'shamyim. The sounds are Bloomberg's way of saying "a gooten shabbos" to the ehrleche yiddin of NYC.
50
Jun 28, 2009 at 10:19 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The threat was no doubt sent by Barkat's own people to villify the Chareidim. Standard Israeli procedure. ”
I agree, since when do 'tshalmis' send "e-mails"?
51
Jun 28, 2009 at 11:00 PM Milhouse Says:
“ When the mayor of Yerushalayim was sworn into his office, he had to promise to uphold the civil laws not halacha. The public officials should always try to conform the civil law and halacha and in certain matters such as marriage and divorce, the religious laws are the applicable standard. However, when it comes to shabbos observance etc., there are no civil laws that prohibit driving and parking on public streets and the mayor would be acting contrary to law if he tried to impose shabbos observance. i know you will say halacha should trump the civil law, but thats not how it works in Israel. ”
"That's not how it works" simply means nobody's done it yet. It's a report, not an argument. There's no reason the mayor couldn't follow the Torah if he wanted to. Of course I don't think he will, but he should.
52
Jun 28, 2009 at 11:02 PM Milhouse Says:
“ What do you mean "the time is not yet" for laws forcing everyone to keep shabbos. B'yh, such an oppressive legal regime will hopefully never happen in our lifetime. The freedom of jews to live their lives without government intervention or mandates and without fear of persecution if they want to be frumme is the most wonderful part of EY. ”
Then you are an apikores. You don't pray for Moshiach to come, and expect him to come every day? You don't pray three times a day "hoshivo shofteinu kevorishono"? What do you think that means, if not that the law will force everyone to follow the Torah?
53
Jun 28, 2009 at 11:09 PM Milhouse Says:
“ What do you mean "the time is not yet" for laws forcing everyone to keep shabbos. B'yh, such an oppressive legal regime will hopefully never happen in our lifetime. The freedom of jews to live their lives without government intervention or mandates and without fear of persecution if they want to be frumme is the most wonderful part of EY. ”
By the way, what do you mean by "B'yh"? I've never heard of that acronym. But if the 'h' at the end means you're calling on Hashem, don't you think that's a chutzpah, to call on Him to help you defy His Torah? If an opportunity ever arises, even before Moshiach, to ban chilul shabbos by law, are you saying it should not be done? How can you possibly justify that? If we CAN make everyone keep shabbos and we choose not to, then we are responsible for all the chilul shabbos that results. How could you face Him after 120 with that on your conscience?
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Jun 29, 2009 at 08:43 AM pityubacsi Says:
milhouse keep on deluding youreself about moshiah and about youre religious fantasies that you harbor but ill tell you this much non of it is going to come to fruition all of it is a fantasy like youre life you hopeless dupe that you are
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Jun 29, 2009 at 09:43 AM Anonymous Says:
“ The medinah was not founded to be a torah state and has never claimed to be so. It is a jewish state for yiddin of all "dednominations". The challenge will be for them to learn to live together...I'm more optimistic about long-term peace with chamas than I am regarding peace and respect between the hareidim and chilonim ”
what's makes someone a jew if no observing the torah and mitzvotz
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Jun 29, 2009 at 03:47 PM moish Says:
“ You could also add: the fact there are thousands of Jews in EY who havn't heard of Rabbi Akivah, who haven’t even heard of Yom kippur, is a partial fault of the all the frummer Yidden.
If all chareidim, not just chabad, put in the energy and effort to reach out to their fellow yidden in a positive productive manner, EY would look allot different than it looks today.
If the Chareidim put as much effort as their political manoeuvres to gain money, not only for their own yeshivahs, but also all yidden in EY to receive some sort of Jewish education, we wouldn't have the situation today where hundreds of thousands of Yidden don't know what shabbos is, don't know what Yom Kippur is.
The current situation of the two sides as implacable foes, reflects the utter failure of the current "I'll take care of my community first and forget the rest" mentality.
Kol Yisroel areivim zeh lazeh.
”
In your narrow mind all you see is chabad, do you know how many other organizations are mekarev yidden? Shofar, aish, arachim, tzohar, hidabrut, to name a few.
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Jun 29, 2009 at 03:26 PM Anonymous Says:
WHH
to #1. 12th bracha shemonei esrei, 3 times daily we say:" and for slanderers, let there be no hope, and may all wickedness perish in an instant. and may all your enemies be cut down speedily. May you speedily uproot, smash, destroy, cast down and humble wanton sinners, speedily in our days. Blessed are you Hashem who humbles wanton sinners."
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Jun 29, 2009 at 08:42 PM ZR Says:
“ In your narrow mind all you see is chabad, do you know how many other organizations are mekarev yidden? Shofar, aish, arachim, tzohar, hidabrut, to name a few.
”
Tell me, are any of the Chareidi Parties insisting on some minimal level of Judaism to be taught in Israeli schools to the Jewish kids?
No. They have a selfish attitude of "I'll take care of my community and forget about the rest of the Yiddishe neshomas outside my community." When will they start being concerned about ALL Yidden, not just their own small community? Yes there are some kiruv organisations outside Chabad. But they the small exception to the rule. And they defiantly have nowhere near the amount of political power and support as the Chareidi Parties as a whole.
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Jun 30, 2009 at 04:28 AM moish Says:
“ Tell me, are any of the Chareidi Parties insisting on some minimal level of Judaism to be taught in Israeli schools to the Jewish kids?
No. They have a selfish attitude of "I'll take care of my community and forget about the rest of the Yiddishe neshomas outside my community." When will they start being concerned about ALL Yidden, not just their own small community? Yes there are some kiruv organisations outside Chabad. But they the small exception to the rule. And they defiantly have nowhere near the amount of political power and support as the Chareidi Parties as a whole. ”
I'm not such a fan of the chareidi parties myself but just for the record what makes you think they would be able to insist on such a law. Who set up chinuch atzmoi if not agudas yisroel. What has ichud le'umi which chabad supports done for this cause? and don't be so arrogant, these organizations are not all the exception, they have likely made many more sincere bt's then chabad. Chabad kiruv work on the large part seems like a missionary group advocating for their self chosen moshiach.