RSS Feed
Jerusalem - Fmr. Police Commander: Opening Parking Lot on Shabbat Was a Mistake |
|
| |
Published on:
Jun 30, 2009 at 08:58 AM
News Source: Jerusalem Post
Text Size
|
Officers were pelted with rocks during Shabbas protestPhoto: Gil Yohanan
Advertisement:
"The municipality building parking lot has been closed for 15 years; why open it? Why break the status quo?" he told Army Radio.
Opening the parking lot resulted in riots perpetrated by haredi residents of Jerusalem.
Several police officers and protesters were hurt in the clashes.
More of today's headlines
“Miami, FL - A Jewish education center in Miami faces foreclosure by Regions Bank. The Lubavitch Education Center’s 84,020-square-foot, seven-story building on seven...”
Miami, FL - First Rabbinical College in Southeastern U.S Faces Foreclosure
New York - Crime and Punishment (a different take on the Madoff scandal)
Total47
Read Comments (47) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 30, 2009 at 09:13 AM ZR Says:
And even if these protests are successful to close the car-park, yotso schoro b'hefseido - more has been lost than gained.
How many yidden are now pushed away from Yiddishkeit by this disgusting display of behaviour - dirty nappies etc.?
At the end of the day is even there even ONE yid who decided to keep shabbos because of the violent protests? Are more yidden exposed to the beauty of shabbos? To the beauty of Yiddishkeit? Or the exact opposite? More Yidden are repulsed by these actions. Where was the logic in all this?
What's more important? More Yidden should keep shabbos? Or getting a car-park closed while increasing hatred for the Chareidim and pushing more Yidden away from Yiddishkeit?
2
Jun 30, 2009 at 09:15 AM Anonymous Says:
It was opened because the alternative was the tourist cars and others would park on the streets right around the entrance to the kosel area and old city and spill over into meah shearim...there are more cars today than 15 years ago. Levy should not be criticizing his former colleagues who have much better information than he has.
3
Jun 30, 2009 at 09:20 AM Anonymous Says:
“ And even if these protests are successful to close the car-park, yotso schoro b'hefseido - more has been lost than gained.
How many yidden are now pushed away from Yiddishkeit by this disgusting display of behaviour - dirty nappies etc.?
At the end of the day is even there even ONE yid who decided to keep shabbos because of the violent protests? Are more yidden exposed to the beauty of shabbos? To the beauty of Yiddishkeit? Or the exact opposite? More Yidden are repulsed by these actions. Where was the logic in all this?
What's more important? More Yidden should keep shabbos? Or getting a car-park closed while increasing hatred for the Chareidim and pushing more Yidden away from Yiddishkeit?
”
And your point is?
4
Jun 30, 2009 at 09:31 AM Anonymous Says:
“ And even if these protests are successful to close the car-park, yotso schoro b'hefseido - more has been lost than gained.
How many yidden are now pushed away from Yiddishkeit by this disgusting display of behaviour - dirty nappies etc.?
At the end of the day is even there even ONE yid who decided to keep shabbos because of the violent protests? Are more yidden exposed to the beauty of shabbos? To the beauty of Yiddishkeit? Or the exact opposite? More Yidden are repulsed by these actions. Where was the logic in all this?
What's more important? More Yidden should keep shabbos? Or getting a car-park closed while increasing hatred for the Chareidim and pushing more Yidden away from Yiddishkeit?
”
you sound like a chiloni who may jump off the roof when a decision will be made to clode the parking lot.
you are a fanatical chiloni. you hate a frum yid.
5
Jun 30, 2009 at 09:29 AM ZR Says:
“ And your point is? ”
In one sentence: Kiruv is infinitely more effective in increasing Shiras Shabbos than violent protests.
6
Jun 30, 2009 at 10:17 AM standding up for kovod chachomim Says:
“ In one sentence: Kiruv is infinitely more effective in increasing Shiras Shabbos than violent protests. ”
you know better them the bedotz, these Todikim are only for Kovod Shomaim.
7
Jun 30, 2009 at 10:13 AM Anonymous Says:
“ In one sentence: Kiruv is infinitely more effective in increasing Shiras Shabbos than violent protests. ”
Its not a question now of getting the chilonim to become frum. All we want now is that yerushalayim should like a jewish place that dosent drive on shabbos.
8
Jun 30, 2009 at 10:10 AM zavil Says:
#4 you got it. I have said so in other postings. covering up his sinas hadass with 'kiruv' 'ahavas yisroel' etc
9
Jun 30, 2009 at 10:09 AM Just a Jew Says:
Sounds like this Micki Levi has his eye on the mayoralty of Jerusalem....
10
Jun 30, 2009 at 09:53 AM ZR Says:
“ you sound like a chiloni who may jump off the roof when a decision will be made to clode the parking lot.
you are a fanatical chiloni. you hate a frum yid. ”
No, actually I love all Yidden. Even the not-yet frum ones. Hence my concern that these riots are pushing not-yet frum Yidden away from Yiddishkeit.
If you have read my other post you will know that I believe kiruv is the way to bring Yidden to keep Shabbos. Not by throwing stones.
11
Jun 30, 2009 at 09:40 AM scooter Says:
“ In one sentence: Kiruv is infinitely more effective in increasing Shiras Shabbos than violent protests. ”
You're Mixing Up! The Main Point Here Is To Keep Shabbos, Not To Make Kiruv!!!!!
12
Jun 30, 2009 at 10:20 AM Anonymous Says:
“ And even if these protests are successful to close the car-park, yotso schoro b'hefseido - more has been lost than gained.
How many yidden are now pushed away from Yiddishkeit by this disgusting display of behaviour - dirty nappies etc.?
At the end of the day is even there even ONE yid who decided to keep shabbos because of the violent protests? Are more yidden exposed to the beauty of shabbos? To the beauty of Yiddishkeit? Or the exact opposite? More Yidden are repulsed by these actions. Where was the logic in all this?
What's more important? More Yidden should keep shabbos? Or getting a car-park closed while increasing hatred for the Chareidim and pushing more Yidden away from Yiddishkeit?
”
I understand your point BUT... Fact is that 95% of the charedi are NOT violently protesting. If the 30-50 thousand charedi who protested were violent then the consequences would have been much more intense. Nevertheless we cant sit back and do nothing. I think you are the type of Jew who doesnt understand that you cant give a carrot to a zionist who hates Torah. The carrot is weakness in their eyes NOT an act of peace. Therefore you have to show a stick. Only then do they stop trying to push their beliefs on us!
14
Jun 30, 2009 at 10:30 AM Anonymous Says:
If we see something that goes against the Torah, it is a chiyuv to protest.
15
Jun 30, 2009 at 11:03 AM Anonymous Says:
“ And even if these protests are successful to close the car-park, yotso schoro b'hefseido - more has been lost than gained.
How many yidden are now pushed away from Yiddishkeit by this disgusting display of behaviour - dirty nappies etc.?
At the end of the day is even there even ONE yid who decided to keep shabbos because of the violent protests? Are more yidden exposed to the beauty of shabbos? To the beauty of Yiddishkeit? Or the exact opposite? More Yidden are repulsed by these actions. Where was the logic in all this?
What's more important? More Yidden should keep shabbos? Or getting a car-park closed while increasing hatred for the Chareidim and pushing more Yidden away from Yiddishkeit?
”
This decision is up to Rabbonim and gedoilim, not to an internet blogger.
18
Jun 30, 2009 at 11:28 AM tzoorba Says:
“ No, actually I love all Yidden. Even the not-yet frum ones. Hence my concern that these riots are pushing not-yet frum Yidden away from Yiddishkeit.
If you have read my other post you will know that I believe kiruv is the way to bring Yidden to keep Shabbos. Not by throwing stones.
”
Your distorted overemphasis on kiruv over any other inyan has caused you to slander the majority of Jews who demonstrated for kovod Shabbos.
Kiruv is good but kovod and shmiras shabbos for those who are already frum is more important.
The vast majority demonstrated peacefully and it's a violation of your all sacred achdus for you to smear everyone with misdeeds of the few.
19
Jun 30, 2009 at 11:59 AM Anonymous Says:
To #1 and all "jew lovers" who know only of one mitzva in the Torah: AHAVAS YISROEL, how about a little ahavas yisroel "also" to the frum and observant? how about an ounce of ahavas yisroel and a bit of respect to the great gedolei yisroel?
Ahavas yisroel does not necessarily mean loving chiloni freya people, does not mean justification for gruesome police brutality on other yidden.
20
Jun 30, 2009 at 12:23 PM Anonymous Says:
“ If we see something that goes against the Torah, it is a chiyuv to protest. ”
There is no "chiyuv" to protest every violation you see of halacha. Focus on your own midos and behavior. Once you are a tzadik gamur, come back and tell us and then maybe you can protest the fact that other yiddin have not reached your madregah of kedusha. In the interim, HEAL THYSELF.
21
Jun 30, 2009 at 12:09 PM Anonymous Says:
“ And even if these protests are successful to close the car-park, yotso schoro b'hefseido - more has been lost than gained.
How many yidden are now pushed away from Yiddishkeit by this disgusting display of behaviour - dirty nappies etc.?
At the end of the day is even there even ONE yid who decided to keep shabbos because of the violent protests? Are more yidden exposed to the beauty of shabbos? To the beauty of Yiddishkeit? Or the exact opposite? More Yidden are repulsed by these actions. Where was the logic in all this?
What's more important? More Yidden should keep shabbos? Or getting a car-park closed while increasing hatred for the Chareidim and pushing more Yidden away from Yiddishkeit?
”
whom ever you are blame your mayor of jerusalem the hatred will all ways be there becouse you are amoratzim and are repulsed from yidden
22
Jun 30, 2009 at 02:13 PM Anonymous Says:
“ whom ever you are blame your mayor of jerusalem the hatred will all ways be there becouse you are amoratzim and are repulsed from yidden ”
The only am ha'oretz I see around here is the poster of No. 21 who cannot write an English sentence and whose message is incoherent. I suspect you are trying to blame these incidents on the mayor of Yerushalayim but even that point is lost in translation.
23
Jun 30, 2009 at 02:55 PM anonymous Says:
“ And even if these protests are successful to close the car-park, yotso schoro b'hefseido - more has been lost than gained.
How many yidden are now pushed away from Yiddishkeit by this disgusting display of behaviour - dirty nappies etc.?
At the end of the day is even there even ONE yid who decided to keep shabbos because of the violent protests? Are more yidden exposed to the beauty of shabbos? To the beauty of Yiddishkeit? Or the exact opposite? More Yidden are repulsed by these actions. Where was the logic in all this?
What's more important? More Yidden should keep shabbos? Or getting a car-park closed while increasing hatred for the Chareidim and pushing more Yidden away from Yiddishkeit?
”
As one who survived Hitler's gehenim I admire you for your klige and rational answer,yashar koach
24
Jun 30, 2009 at 03:29 PM Stupid commenters whoa!!!! Says:
“ No, actually I love all Yidden. Even the not-yet frum ones. Hence my concern that these riots are pushing not-yet frum Yidden away from Yiddishkeit.
If you have read my other post you will know that I believe kiruv is the way to bring Yidden to keep Shabbos. Not by throwing stones.
”
Whatever you may beleive, as a jew you are NOT obligated to make baalei teshuva from mechalelai shabbos. It is a very very nice thing but there is no obligation. There is one obligation that you should directly interfere with his chilul shabbos which is being done in your own backyard of which the chareidim of yerushalayim are doing
27
Jun 30, 2009 at 05:15 PM Q Says:
“ And even if these protests are successful to close the car-park, yotso schoro b'hefseido - more has been lost than gained.
How many yidden are now pushed away from Yiddishkeit by this disgusting display of behaviour - dirty nappies etc.?
At the end of the day is even there even ONE yid who decided to keep shabbos because of the violent protests? Are more yidden exposed to the beauty of shabbos? To the beauty of Yiddishkeit? Or the exact opposite? More Yidden are repulsed by these actions. Where was the logic in all this?
What's more important? More Yidden should keep shabbos? Or getting a car-park closed while increasing hatred for the Chareidim and pushing more Yidden away from Yiddishkeit?
”
why is it that when it comes to reprimanding the mechalilei shabbos (which -as many have already pointed out- is NOT the issue here.The issue here is protesting a bad , anti-torah decision made by the city) you have nothing but love and peace,and tinok shenishbiu (which is not even the case with many secular israelis) and all your other BS slogans. YET when it comes to YOU rebuking the 'chareidim' for what YOU consider to be wrong behavior, you are full of hatred, nastyness,meanness,negative-destructive- crticism.
what happened to your guiding principle of the torahs ways being filled with love and pleasentness?????how many chareidim do YOU expect to turn around by bashing them?????
so lets get this straight. when we a see a dear fellow jew making a mistake procedure is as follows:
If he is a 'mechalel shabbos' then we must show him love and complements and sing songs with him etc,
But if he is a chareidi jew, trying to defend G-ds honor, but went about -IN YOUR OPINION- the wrong way,then we must curse out , bash , hate etc the ENTIRE chareidi group as a result- i see.
thank you for once again showing your true colors.
perhaps when you can stop being a self-hater , you will stop hating others
28
Jun 30, 2009 at 06:05 PM Anonymous Says:
Its not kiruv or any thing els its the idea till now everything In yerushalayim was closed on shabbes you can't let anybody break it its not the parking lot itself Its the idea and you all going on about people sliding away from yidishkiet I wanna know some one that slipt because of the hafganot stop with all that nonsense pleas do some thing for yidishkiet! Instead PLEAS
30
Jun 30, 2009 at 07:31 PM ZR Says:
To all you posters who have come to the conclusion that the fact someone feels (based on many Gedoliei Yisroel) that Kiruv is the only way to actually help in the problem of Chillul Shabbos, he must be a "hater of Chareidim", I myself am a Chareidi. I myself wear the levush of a Chosid.
Instead of arguing the actual issue (does throwing dirty nappies get Yidden to keep Shabbos) You guys have resorted to "attacking the messenger". "He must be a hater of chareidim". Have you guys ever considered that not all Gedoliei Yisroel agree with these violent riots as the way to deal with Chillul Shabbos?
I don’t argue with the validity of PEACEFULL protests. I decry the chillul hashem when there are some hooligans who start throwing stones at the police. And don’t tell me all of them were throwing stones in self defence. It’s clear from video footage that this aint so.
Many of the posters have stated that those who threw stones and lit fires and caused the massive chillul Hashem which distances Yidden from Yiddishkeit etc. are bored souls and shouldn't be confused with the majority peaceful erliche Yidden. If it’s true that they are the bored souls who don't listen to the Rabbonim why don't the Rabbonim condemn them in public and in the media?
32
Jun 30, 2009 at 09:10 PM Q Says:
“ To all you posters who have come to the conclusion that the fact someone feels (based on many Gedoliei Yisroel) that Kiruv is the only way to actually help in the problem of Chillul Shabbos, he must be a "hater of Chareidim", I myself am a Chareidi. I myself wear the levush of a Chosid.
Instead of arguing the actual issue (does throwing dirty nappies get Yidden to keep Shabbos) You guys have resorted to "attacking the messenger". "He must be a hater of chareidim". Have you guys ever considered that not all Gedoliei Yisroel agree with these violent riots as the way to deal with Chillul Shabbos?
I don’t argue with the validity of PEACEFULL protests. I decry the chillul hashem when there are some hooligans who start throwing stones at the police. And don’t tell me all of them were throwing stones in self defence. It’s clear from video footage that this aint so.
Many of the posters have stated that those who threw stones and lit fires and caused the massive chillul Hashem which distances Yidden from Yiddishkeit etc. are bored souls and shouldn't be confused with the majority peaceful erliche Yidden. If it’s true that they are the bored souls who don't listen to the Rabbonim why don't the Rabbonim condemn them in public and in the media?
”
the fact that you are chareidi only confirms what i said that you are a "self-hater".
you still did NOT explain why you are more tolerant of the mistakes of the michalilei shabbos, than of the holy chareidim.
And i don't think anyone is "attacking the messanger". It's just that your points are debateable but irrelevant to the situation.
The police are for a large part enraged brutal animals. and many of the polititians have open hatred for torah- PERIOD.
and EVEN the (former) police chief said that it was a BAD decision to open the lot, and their whole excuse was cause the police think its needed, which we see is not so true, so lets stop defending them
33
Jun 30, 2009 at 10:15 PM ZR Says:
Seeing you don't have a good answer you resort to personal attacks.
You can't give a good explanation to the original question:
How is throwing nappies at people who are not frum going to make a SINGLE yid WANT to keep shabbos???????????????????
Forget about me (and your dislike of my derech and my Rebbe) for a second if you can, and ANSWER the question.
Its unfortunate we can't have an objective discussion without resorting to personal attacks. I was hoping frum Yidden can discuss things in a civilized manner without getting personnel. You have proven that hope wrong.
37
Jun 30, 2009 at 10:28 PM ZR Says:
“ the fact that you are chareidi only confirms what i said that you are a "self-hater".
you still did NOT explain why you are more tolerant of the mistakes of the michalilei shabbos, than of the holy chareidim.
And i don't think anyone is "attacking the messanger". It's just that your points are debateable but irrelevant to the situation.
The police are for a large part enraged brutal animals. and many of the polititians have open hatred for torah- PERIOD.
and EVEN the (former) police chief said that it was a BAD decision to open the lot, and their whole excuse was cause the police think its needed, which we see is not so true, so lets stop defending them ”
"you still did NOT explain why you are more tolerant of the mistakes of the michalilei shabbos, than of the holy chareidim."
Lets get some things straight. Chillul Shabbos is a terrible thing. Now the question is how do we get more yidden to keep shabbos? Does the riots that chilonim see on TV throwing dirty nappies etc. going to help? Yes or no?
If the protests are peaceful, then yes I agree that they might help. But as soon as it disintegrates into nappy throwing etc. it becomes a Chillul Hashem and has the OPPOSITE effect than the intended result.
Now, if those throwing rocks and nappies are the "bored souls who don't listen to Rabbonim" then why don't we hear from the Rabbonim condemning them in the media as causing the peaceful protests to have the opposite of a Kidush Hashem in the eyes of the not -yet frum?
I have nothing against the chareidi, I myself am chareidi. I am upset that these protests are causing the opposite of the intended result.
38
Jun 30, 2009 at 10:45 PM ZR Says:
Why am I debating someone who clearly is incapable of a civilized discussion without getting personal?
How naive of me.
39
Jun 30, 2009 at 10:40 PM ZR Says:
Thank G-d most Chareidim don't agree with you. Its YOU, you nappy thrower, who should take off your levishim! And stop embarrassing all normal Chareidim!
40
Jun 30, 2009 at 11:13 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Thank G-d most Chareidim don't agree with you. Its YOU, you nappy thrower, who should take off your levishim! And stop embarrassing all normal Chareidim! ”
what are you talking about, why are you accusing him of throwing nappies, Liar
41
Jun 30, 2009 at 11:10 PM Anonymous Says:
“ "you still did NOT explain why you are more tolerant of the mistakes of the michalilei shabbos, than of the holy chareidim."
Lets get some things straight. Chillul Shabbos is a terrible thing. Now the question is how do we get more yidden to keep shabbos? Does the riots that chilonim see on TV throwing dirty nappies etc. going to help? Yes or no?
If the protests are peaceful, then yes I agree that they might help. But as soon as it disintegrates into nappy throwing etc. it becomes a Chillul Hashem and has the OPPOSITE effect than the intended result.
Now, if those throwing rocks and nappies are the "bored souls who don't listen to Rabbonim" then why don't we hear from the Rabbonim condemning them in the media as causing the peaceful protests to have the opposite of a Kidush Hashem in the eyes of the not -yet frum?
I have nothing against the chareidi, I myself am chareidi. I am upset that these protests are causing the opposite of the intended result. ”
I read your posts it is clear to me, that you’re a chareidi, I am taking your word, and let me tell you I am not a chareidi and I don’t hate all the charedim, I hate people who resort to violence to achieve a goal, insomuch they throw rocks and nappies and burn garbage cans, I know that some will reply there were only a few kids, yes but a few to many, I do not have a problem with 100,000 charedim go out get a permit and protest in a manor that brings real understating to your views, but not violence, it is never justified to use violence to achieve a goal. I will not entertain your disparaging remakes that the police are violent, they are there to keep the peace, and that is there job.
42
Jul 01, 2009 at 03:36 AM Anonymous Says:
Do you have any other way no way helps that's the language they understand I personal don't go to the riots but when barkat said that there was no way he will close the parking lot down an then made a party on shabbes on the parking lot with the purpose of shoing of a mechalelai shabbes success when he spoke he said yerushalayim lo lecharadim that chilonim were watching too! So here is were you have to put a line we can't show them that you do what ever you want will just do nothing !
43
Jul 01, 2009 at 03:16 AM Anonymous Says:
Its not kiruv or any thing els its the idea till now everything In yerushalayim was closed on shabbes you can't let anybody break it its not the parking lot itself Its the idea and you all going on about people sliding away from yidishkiet I wanna know some one that slipt because of the hafganot stop with all that nonsense pleas do some thing for yidishkiet! Instead PLEAS
44
Jul 01, 2009 at 01:17 AM me Says:
“ There is no "chiyuv" to protest every violation you see of halacha. Focus on your own midos and behavior. Once you are a tzadik gamur, come back and tell us and then maybe you can protest the fact that other yiddin have not reached your madregah of kedusha. In the interim, HEAL THYSELF. ”
The Mitzva of ho'chayach toche'ach es amisecha, ia obligatory when it comes to something that miforush bitorah and applies even if if you know the person won't listen. The only time we are lenient and say Mutov she'yi'yu shgagim vilo mazeedim, is when the prohibition is not clearly stated or a gezairah, like woman not wearing jewelry on Shabbos because they might take it off to show their friends and wind up carrying in a reshus harabim. (Shulchan Oruch, Orech Chaim 608:2) In the case of an individual, ones obligated to rebuke him until he he is hit cursed by the offender. If the transgression is public, one is OBLIGATED TO REBUKE SO THERE SHOULD NOT BE A CHILLUL HASHEM! (Mishneh brura ibid s"k 10)That means silence in the face
45
Jul 01, 2009 at 01:16 AM me Says:
(cont.) That means silence in the face of transgression is a chillul hashem. Protesting against chillul Shabbos is not chillul Hashem.
46
Jul 01, 2009 at 01:00 AM Q Says:
“ I read your posts it is clear to me, that you’re a chareidi, I am taking your word, and let me tell you I am not a chareidi and I don’t hate all the charedim, I hate people who resort to violence to achieve a goal, insomuch they throw rocks and nappies and burn garbage cans, I know that some will reply there were only a few kids, yes but a few to many, I do not have a problem with 100,000 charedim go out get a permit and protest in a manor that brings real understating to your views, but not violence, it is never justified to use violence to achieve a goal. I will not entertain your disparaging remakes that the police are violent, they are there to keep the peace, and that is there job. ”
huh? i wasnt talking to you, i dont know what you're carrying on about.
i don't advocate violence or damage of property either.
But don't you DARE tell me about the police. I am in Israel, and i see first hand what is going on, and there are many cases of police violence against even non-violent protesters.
for the record, no type of police violence is acceptable, even against violent protestors. police job is as you say to keep the peace, not to carry out punishment
47
Jul 01, 2009 at 12:07 AM moish Says:
“ Why am I debating someone who clearly is incapable of a civilized discussion without getting personal?
How naive of me. ”
This guy whos been posting "moish" here is not me whos been using this name until now, I live in yerusholayim and was sleeping, I woke up to find all these hateful comments in my name. I actually do not agree with all these posters, I'm actually convinced of your good intentions, I just disagree with what you are saying about kiruv instead of protest, because kiruv does not help PUBLIC chilul shabbos.
48
Jun 30, 2009 at 11:45 PM ZR Says:
“ I read your posts it is clear to me, that you’re a chareidi, I am taking your word, and let me tell you I am not a chareidi and I don’t hate all the charedim, I hate people who resort to violence to achieve a goal, insomuch they throw rocks and nappies and burn garbage cans, I know that some will reply there were only a few kids, yes but a few to many, I do not have a problem with 100,000 charedim go out get a permit and protest in a manor that brings real understating to your views, but not violence, it is never justified to use violence to achieve a goal. I will not entertain your disparaging remakes that the police are violent, they are there to keep the peace, and that is there job. ”
Thank you for sticking up for me against, what is now clear, ONE person with about 7 different names. (Moish, zavel, lev, dov zalman leib, zavil and berel are all the SAME person, as I have proven on the other blog.)
But if I may, I have to point out that the police in Israel ARE known to be brutal against protesters. Have you heard of Amona?
So, on that point I disagree. But thanks for backing me up on the fact that violent riots (whether started by the police or whether started by some "bored soul" protesters) just do the cause of Shabbos a disfavor.
49
Jun 30, 2009 at 11:36 PM ZR Says:
Now I understand how come all of a sudden there 6 people against me, whereas till now i had many people agreeing with me.
Moish, zavel, lev, dov zalman leib, zavil, berel are all the SAME person. As I have proven in the other blog.
All along I have been debating the same dishonest hateful character.
50
Jul 01, 2009 at 07:19 AM ZR Says:
I have already proved on the other blog on this topic that this “Moish” guy is also Favel, Zavel, Berel, and Zalman Leib, Q, among others.
I know this because they all have the style.... all saying the same thing....all personal attacks....and all are NEW names on VIN.
I am almost 100% certain that there are more posts this guy put up as anonymous and others all saying the same thing, all attacking me for saying kiruv is the way to bring Yidden to Yiddishkeit as oppsed to throwing dirty nappies. And in all these attacks he accuses me of “hating Chareidim” which is ridiculous as it’s clear from the many posts I have put up over the many months under ZR, that I myself am Chareidi.
I have no problem debating anyone, including Moish, as long as he is honest and refrains from personal attacks. So how am I to respond to these personal attacks all from one guy cowardly hiding behind some 10 different names?
Well one way of solving this is if all posters had to register an account under an email as other blogs do. In that way VIN, which provides a wonderful service, cannot be abused by people with a personal vendetta. Just my personal opinion.
51
Jul 01, 2009 at 07:58 AM moish Says:
“ I have already proved on the other blog on this topic that this “Moish” guy is also Favel, Zavel, Berel, and Zalman Leib, Q, among others.
I know this because they all have the style.... all saying the same thing....all personal attacks....and all are NEW names on VIN.
I am almost 100% certain that there are more posts this guy put up as anonymous and others all saying the same thing, all attacking me for saying kiruv is the way to bring Yidden to Yiddishkeit as oppsed to throwing dirty nappies. And in all these attacks he accuses me of “hating Chareidim” which is ridiculous as it’s clear from the many posts I have put up over the many months under ZR, that I myself am Chareidi.
I have no problem debating anyone, including Moish, as long as he is honest and refrains from personal attacks. So how am I to respond to these personal attacks all from one guy cowardly hiding behind some 10 different names?
Well one way of solving this is if all posters had to register an account under an email as other blogs do. In that way VIN, which provides a wonderful service, cannot be abused by people with a personal vendetta. Just my personal opinion.
”
I agree with you this is all the same guy and its not me, the same way he has no ethics by pretending to be a number of people he also has no problem impersonating someone else, you can see from the way I write and the way he writes and spells that it is not me, and besides his posts are NY evening times when i'm fast asleep in yerusholayim. And I do not talk like that and I do not agree with him at all. I know you are good yid with the best intentions for yiddishkeit and I agree with the importance of kiruv for all yidden, I have just respectfully disagreed on a number of issues. The real moish.
52
Jul 01, 2009 at 08:30 AM ZR Says:
“ I agree with you this is all the same guy and its not me, the same way he has no ethics by pretending to be a number of people he also has no problem impersonating someone else, you can see from the way I write and the way he writes and spells that it is not me, and besides his posts are NY evening times when i'm fast asleep in yerusholayim. And I do not talk like that and I do not agree with him at all. I know you are good yid with the best intentions for yiddishkeit and I agree with the importance of kiruv for all yidden, I have just respectfully disagreed on a number of issues. The real moish.
”
All I know is that if someone high-jacked my online identity and then had the chutzpa to use it to smear someone else I would be absolutely FURIOUS.... v'hameivin yovin.
53
Jul 01, 2009 at 08:52 AM ZR Says:
“ I agree with you this is all the same guy and its not me, the same way he has no ethics by pretending to be a number of people he also has no problem impersonating someone else, you can see from the way I write and the way he writes and spells that it is not me, and besides his posts are NY evening times when i'm fast asleep in yerusholayim. And I do not talk like that and I do not agree with him at all. I know you are good yid with the best intentions for yiddishkeit and I agree with the importance of kiruv for all yidden, I have just respectfully disagreed on a number of issues. The real moish.
”
After going through some of the posts of "Moish" mosh, berel etc....
I will give you the benefit of the doubt. It will take a detective to work out how many of the people who have been debating me on this subject are one person or more...
So I will give you, moish, the benefit of the doubt that someone other than yourself was steeling your name and using some 10 other names. Lets hope I am not being naive again.
I have had enough of this subject after all this. I have made my point. You can either agree with it or not.
Lets hope VIN can bring in a system that can make sure people don't abuse VIN for their personnel vendetta.
54
Jul 01, 2009 at 09:22 AM moish Says:
“ After going through some of the posts of "Moish" mosh, berel etc....
I will give you the benefit of the doubt. It will take a detective to work out how many of the people who have been debating me on this subject are one person or more...
So I will give you, moish, the benefit of the doubt that someone other than yourself was steeling your name and using some 10 other names. Lets hope I am not being naive again.
I have had enough of this subject after all this. I have made my point. You can either agree with it or not.
Lets hope VIN can bring in a system that can make sure people don't abuse VIN for their personnel vendetta. ”
you bet I was furious, my blood was boiling and as soon as I saw it I posted a comment against him which wasn't published. I have nothing personal against you c"v and I have never had a personal vendetta against anyone in my life. In fact before I saw him posting in my name I was intending to respond to his stupid comments about you being anti-chareidi etc. in your defense. It bothers me immensly what this guy has written in my name and it is very important to me that this is acknowledged.
55
Jul 01, 2009 at 09:55 AM moish Says:
“ After going through some of the posts of "Moish" mosh, berel etc....
I will give you the benefit of the doubt. It will take a detective to work out how many of the people who have been debating me on this subject are one person or more...
So I will give you, moish, the benefit of the doubt that someone other than yourself was steeling your name and using some 10 other names. Lets hope I am not being naive again.
I have had enough of this subject after all this. I have made my point. You can either agree with it or not.
Lets hope VIN can bring in a system that can make sure people don't abuse VIN for their personnel vendetta. ”
you bet I was furious, my blood was boiling and as soon as I saw it I posted a comment against him which wasn't published. I have nothing personal against you c"v and I have never had a personal vendetta against anyone in my life. In fact before I saw him posting in my name I was intending to respond to his stupid comments about you being anti-chareidi etc. in your defense. It bothers me immensly what this guy has written in my name and it is very important to me that this is acknowledged.
56
Jul 01, 2009 at 12:11 PM Q Says:
“ I have already proved on the other blog on this topic that this “Moish” guy is also Favel, Zavel, Berel, and Zalman Leib, Q, among others.
I know this because they all have the style.... all saying the same thing....all personal attacks....and all are NEW names on VIN.
I am almost 100% certain that there are more posts this guy put up as anonymous and others all saying the same thing, all attacking me for saying kiruv is the way to bring Yidden to Yiddishkeit as oppsed to throwing dirty nappies. And in all these attacks he accuses me of “hating Chareidim” which is ridiculous as it’s clear from the many posts I have put up over the many months under ZR, that I myself am Chareidi.
I have no problem debating anyone, including Moish, as long as he is honest and refrains from personal attacks. So how am I to respond to these personal attacks all from one guy cowardly hiding behind some 10 different names?
Well one way of solving this is if all posters had to register an account under an email as other blogs do. In that way VIN, which provides a wonderful service, cannot be abused by people with a personal vendetta. Just my personal opinion.
”
you fool!!!! I am not moish,favel or anyone else. i am the "Q". and i may not use the same name for every story but i only use one name per article/story.but very lame of you to try to lessen those opposing opinions by saying that they are one guy.
i take responsibility for all of MY comments not for other people's.
and you don't run vin to determine whose posting habits are proper.
and i dont make personal attacks i have asked you very clear rational questions only SOME of which have you answered.
so stop crying with your conspiracy imagination theories. and if you feel that you're being ganged up on , the perhaps you shoulld quite your anti jewish opinions, and then your fellow jews will be more welcoming of u
57
Jul 06, 2009 at 04:22 PM the imposter Says:
#54 ..nebach, nebach, your blood was boiling! either way whatever name is used you dont know who it is ..so what are you guys crying for?