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Jerusalem - 350 Rabbonim Gather To Battle Intermarriage and Assimilation in Worldwide Effort |
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LEADING GEDOLEI YISROEL AT CONFERENCE AGAINST ASSIMILATION: Some of the leading Gedolei Yisroel who addressed a recent international conference sponsored by the Eternal Jewish International on intermarriage and assimilation. L R Rav Yitzchok Scheiner (Rosh Yeshiva, Kaminetz), Rav Shaul Alter (Rosh Yeshiva, Sfas Emes), Rav Leib Tropper (Chairman, EJFs Halachic Committee), Rav Ela Behr Wachtfogel (Rosh Yeshiva, South Fallsburg) speaking, Mr. Menachem Yitzchok Kaplan (Chairman, EJF), Rav Reuven Feinstein (Rosh Yeshiva, Staten Island), and Rav Berl Povarsky (Rosh Yeshiva, Ponivez).
The rabbanim deliberated on such topics as “Worldwide Assimilation: Today’s Spiritual Holocaust”, “Building Barriers Against Fictitious Conversions,” Anti-Semitism and Assimilation: Cause or Effect?”, and “Determining the Status of Certain ‘Jews’ in the Community.” The rabbanim, who represented numerous cities around the globe, expressed their deepest concern over the grave issue of world-wide assimilation. In addition, they addressed a growing problem in Israel where many young people return from study abroad with non-Jewish spouses. Kiruv experts spoke of the dangers facing Israeli youth in Israel. They resolved to step up the educational efforts to hopefully thwart this growing trend.
The tone of the historic conference was set by EJF’s chairman, Menachem Yitzchak (Tom) Kaplan who noted that “in my wildest dreams I could not imagine such a rapid and broad acceptance by rabbanim all over the world of the vision we laid out with the help of the leading Torah authorities.” Kaplan said that he was “committed to do whatever it takes to take on assimilation and problematic conversions wherever the problem exists.” Rav Leib Tropper, the organization’s chairman of the Halachic Committee, spoke of the successes of EJF in “raising the bar on conversions and successfully uniting rabbonim and dayanim from disparate backgrounds in preserving kedushas yisroel.”
The theme of kedushas yisrael was also addressed by some of the notable gedolei yisrael and leading rabbanim who participated in the conference. They included Rav Yonah Metzger, Chief Rabbi of Israel, Rav Ela Behr Wachtfogel (Rosh Yeshiva, South Fallsburg) who made a 36-hour trip to Israel to address the conference, Rav Dov Povarsky (Rosh Yeshiva, Ponovezh), Rav Saul Alter (Rosh Yeshiva, Sfas Emes), Rav Reuven Feinstein (Rosh Yeshiva, Staten Island), Rav Pinchas Friedman (Belz), Rav Moshe Schapiro, (Rosh Yeshiva and a leading expert on worldwide kiruv), Rav Boruch Mordechai Ezrachi (Rosh Yeshiva, Ateret Yisrael), Rav Yitzchak Ezrachi (Rosh Yeshiva, Mir), Rav Yitzchok Scheiner (Rosh Yeshiva, Kaminetz), Rav Nosson Kopshitz (Dayan, Eda Hachareidis), Rav Moshe Smotny, Rav Shmuel Eliezer Stern (Bais Din of Rav Wozner), Rav Moshe Shteinman (son of Rav Aaron Leib Shteinman), Rav Shaul Kanievsky (son of Rav Chaim Kanievsky), Rav Dovid Yosef (son of Rav Ovadia Yosef), Stolner Rebbe, Rav Dovid Cohen (Rosh Yeshiva, Chevron), Rav Shmuel Deutsch (Rosh Yeshiva, Kol Torah), Rav Yehoshua Eichenstein (Rosh Yeshiva, Yad Aharon), Rav Nochum Eisenstein (Vaad Harabbonim Haolomi Leyonei Giyur), Rav Moshe Klein, and Rav Mordechai Altusky (Rosh Yeshiva, Torah Ohr),
A strong letter supporting EJF by Rav Aaron Leib Shteinman, which was also signed by Rav Yosef Sholem Eliyashiv, was read at the conference. It strongly supported the anti-assimilation theme of the conference and warned of the dangers of assimilation to the future of klal yisroel. Rav Zvi Elimelech Halberstam, the Sanzer Rebbe of Netanya, in his letter supported the new initiative to involve kiruv organizations in a direct war against intermarriage.
When the conference ended, there was a great sense of accomplishment in dealing with some of the most critical issues facing the Jewish nation. A new program called "Tochnit Kaplan" was warmly received. It will be a joint partnership between EJF and the kiruv organizations to include “straight talk” in their educational programs on the dangers of intermarriage. EJF will be co-sponsoring seminars around the world to promote this message. More than 300 Israeli rabbanim of cities and towns all over Israel signed on to a resolution that they will “intensely investigate” the halachic integrity of conversions before signing on a marriage certificate.
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Read Comments (59) — Post Yours »
1
Jun 30, 2009 at 10:17 AM Meir Says:
They certainly won't be mekarev people with stone throwing demonstrations.
2
Jun 30, 2009 at 10:04 AM ZR Says:
THIS is a Kidush Hashem. THIS is the approach that will help bring more yidden to keep shabbos. Not the embarrassing riots we witnessed this past shabbos.
3
Jun 30, 2009 at 10:25 AM Anonymous Says:
“ They certainly won't be mekarev people with stone throwing demonstrations. ”
We need to focus on keeping QUALITY. Instead of meshugas kiruv which brings horrible pains to Israel we need to keep it from happening with the younger generation. We need to preventative medicine today!
4
Jun 30, 2009 at 10:34 AM Anonymous Says:
how much did it cost kaplan to get all the rabbis together
5
Jun 30, 2009 at 10:29 AM Simcha Says:
One way to fight intermarriage is to stop uprooting gierus, thereby leaving more people married to Jews.
6
Jun 30, 2009 at 11:00 AM Anonymous Says:
“ They certainly won't be mekarev people with stone throwing demonstrations. ”
You guys missed the point,. The objective of the demonstrations is to demand that the rights of the chareidim not be trampled on. It is for self preservation. Not for kiruv. Be aware that the religious Jews are the natives of E"Y. Not the secularist. And their rights need be preserved. By the way they are the ones who maintained a Jewish presence through the diaspora which gives the secularist claim to the land
7
Jun 30, 2009 at 11:18 AM Anonymous Says:
“ One way to fight intermarriage is to stop uprooting gierus, thereby leaving more people married to Jews. ”
Excellent point. The recent chumradike geirus policies have done more to push away yidden than the so-called kiruv has helped. Stone-throwing? Also not helpful.
8
Jun 30, 2009 at 11:10 AM Anonymous Says:
Were was satmer ?
9
Jun 30, 2009 at 11:48 AM Jerusalemite Says:
I didn't know the Inbal hotel had a reliable hechsher.
10
Jun 30, 2009 at 11:38 AM Anonymous Says:
Where is Chabad??
11
Jun 30, 2009 at 11:27 AM Anonymous Says:
“ how much did it cost kaplan to get all the rabbis together ”
whats the difference
he has the vision and went out and pulled it off
i wonder who helped him
whoever it is should be getting alot of kudos with mr kaplan
12
Jun 30, 2009 at 11:24 AM Anonymous Says:
burach hasem
achdus is possible
13
Jun 30, 2009 at 12:19 PM Anonymous Says:
Where is the achdus? Where are the Modern Orthodox or Zionist rebbeim?
14
Jun 30, 2009 at 12:17 PM divisive Says:
if they really care about the safety of jewish souls and they would like to actually save them and talk with people who actually work day to day to save yiddishe neshamos and share ideas and network they would talk with satmar ger chabad movement belzer chassidim
instead this is about making themselves feel good and undermining a decisive group of people who are working very very hard to help
soo i really question their motives these people cannot be ignored
15
Jun 30, 2009 at 12:08 PM Anonymous Says:
I dunno. You look at the photo and the visual image is of an all (and old) male phalanx of black hats -- completely unappealing and off putting to the vast majority of non-orthodox Jews -- especially young Israelis who associate that look with the darkness and oppression of the European ghettos of their great-grandparents.
16
Jun 30, 2009 at 12:06 PM tzoorba Says:
“ Excellent point. The recent chumradike geirus policies have done more to push away yidden than the so-called kiruv has helped. Stone-throwing? Also not helpful. ”
Do you call requiring kabolos hamitzvos by actually seeing the geirim keep the halachos a chumra?
17
Jun 30, 2009 at 12:01 PM Anonymous Says:
If they really want to stop intermarriage, then they should set up many programs for Jewish singles to meet. There are so many Jewish singles who don't find someone Jewish to marry, so they either intermarry or never marry.. I am one of those who stayed single. As I am almost 50 years old, it looks like I probably won't ever get married.
Instead of just lecturing on the dangers of intermarriage, they need to help Jewish singles meet. Is it so much better for Jewish singles to stay single forever rather than intermarrying?
18
Jun 30, 2009 at 01:00 PM esther Says:
“ We need to focus on keeping QUALITY. Instead of meshugas kiruv which brings horrible pains to Israel we need to keep it from happening with the younger generation. We need to preventative medicine today! ”
what are you saying?that we should only focus on keeping frum jews frum?what horrible pains?if you don't get the special inherent QUALITY of every jew,regardless of his/her external circumstances,you need to look up what the pintele yid is.
19
Jun 30, 2009 at 12:57 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Do you call requiring kabolos hamitzvos by actually seeing the geirim keep the halachos a chumra? ”
Yes. See B.-Z. H. Uzziel, Mishpatei Uzziel (2nd edition, Jerusalem, 1950), Yoreh De'ah, Vol. 1, # 58, p. 205; M. Hacohen, Responsa Ve-Heshiv Moshe (Jerusalem, 1968), Yoreh De'ah, #50.
20
Jun 30, 2009 at 12:55 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Where is the achdus? Where are the Modern Orthodox or Zionist rebbeim? ”
they arent mainstream Orthodox... Thats why they werent included! Same reason why Chabad wasnt included!
21
Jun 30, 2009 at 01:20 PM Anonymous Says:
Why was Chabad that actually saved many Jews from intermarriage not represented ??? If the goal is Kiruv and save many from intermarriage propbably Chabad has the most experience and has much to offer. Folks I sense we need achdus.
22
Jun 30, 2009 at 01:18 PM tzoorba Says:
“ Yes. See B.-Z. H. Uzziel, Mishpatei Uzziel (2nd edition, Jerusalem, 1950), Yoreh De'ah, Vol. 1, # 58, p. 205; M. Hacohen, Responsa Ve-Heshiv Moshe (Jerusalem, 1968), Yoreh De'ah, #50. ”
Who is the mechaber and where do I find out about him?
I know that the poskim that I spoke to disagree with ignoring kabolas mitzvos issues.
23
Jun 30, 2009 at 02:05 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Who is the mechaber and where do I find out about him?
I know that the poskim that I spoke to disagree with ignoring kabolas mitzvos issues. ”
Just to clarify, I did not say that we should ignore kabolas mitzvos. To the contrary, acceptance of the binding authority of halocha is a pre-condition of geirus. What is at best chumra and at worst, contrary to how we are taught to treat the ger, is the new practice of vigorously reviewing the levels of shmiras hamitzvos post-conversion.
R. Uzziel: Born in Jerusalem in 1880, he was Sephardic Chief Rabbi of Eretz Israel from 1939 until his death in 1953.
R. Hacohen: Jerba 1906 - Israel, 1966. A leading rabbi in the community of Jerba, he immigrated to Israel in the 1950s and served as a dayyan (judge) in the rabbinical court of Tiberias.
24
Jun 30, 2009 at 02:01 PM Charlie Hall Says:
“ they arent mainstream Orthodox... Thats why they werent included! Same reason why Chabad wasnt included! ”
This is motzi shem ra of the worst kind.
25
Jun 30, 2009 at 01:56 PM wow!! Says:
Wow this is so intresting, I was saved from INTERMARRIAGE yes INTERMARRIAGE when the chabad shliach in my city shed tears with me parents about the loss of my soul, and they are not there what a flipin joke..I am sure rabbi steinman and rabbi alter from ger are saving lots from intermarriage and thats why they are up front. Chabad has 400 comunities in former soviat Union thats where most intermarrriage takes place they are the ones that are fighting it in Europe asia and small cities across NA. This is just like the Mea Shearim nics fighting the police to shut down a parking lot when chabad and many other kiruv organizations are TEACHING the chilonim about Shabbos. Why arent the shluchim up front? why arent aish rabbis from around NA on the dais this is vomitacious
26
Jun 30, 2009 at 01:39 PM kesef metaher Says:
there are many issues regarding tom kaplan and troppers involvement
if kaplan didnt pay the roshyeshivas tickets and give the yeshivos money not a one would be there and yes where was chabad the one group that does more than all of the others combined to fight intermarraige
27
Jun 30, 2009 at 02:10 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Do you call requiring kabolos hamitzvos by actually seeing the geirim keep the halachos a chumra? ”
No, it's a kulah. It has no basis in halacha.
28
Jun 30, 2009 at 02:10 PM Charlie Hall Says:
“ Yes. See B.-Z. H. Uzziel, Mishpatei Uzziel (2nd edition, Jerusalem, 1950), Yoreh De'ah, Vol. 1, # 58, p. 205; M. Hacohen, Responsa Ve-Heshiv Moshe (Jerusalem, 1968), Yoreh De'ah, #50. ”
Rabbi Uziel z'tz'l is a posek not to be lightly dismissed. And if the M. Hacohen is the late Dayan of Djerba Rabbi Moshe HaCohen z'tz'l, the same applies to him as well. Many Ashkenazim may have never heard of them because they are Sefardim. Nevertheless, I think almost every other posek in the world disagrees with them on this issue.
29
Jun 30, 2009 at 02:21 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Who is the mechaber and where do I find out about him?
I know that the poskim that I spoke to disagree with ignoring kabolas mitzvos issues. ”
Who was the Mishpetei Uziel?? And you have the chutzpah to talk about who is and isn't mainstream orthodox?
30
Jun 30, 2009 at 01:29 PM Anonymous Says:
The best kiruv is to teach the young frummy yidden derech eretz and mentchlikeit. It's not about proselytzing; it's about presenting a positive image in all walks of life that a Torah life is the most desirable way to live.
31
Jun 30, 2009 at 02:35 PM Milhouse Says:
“ No, it's a kulah. It has no basis in halacha. ”
Let me expand on that, before someone gets the wrong idea. Of course kabolas ol mitzvos is the most important part of giyur. But there is no requirement at all that the candidate start keeping everything immediately; in fact it's expected that a new ger will do things wrong through lack of knowledge. The modern custom of requiring years of education is an innovation that has no precedent in Jewish literature. In Chazal's day the whole process of giyur seems to have taken no more than a day; once the BD was convinced that the candidate was sincere and committed to sticking it out, they would convert him immediately and teach him later. What is required is not kabolas hamitzvos, but kabolas OL mitzvos; the candidate does not promise not to eat chelev, but accepts that if he eats chelev he will be punished, just like any Jew.
Second, while the kaboloh must be sincere, we are not mind readers, and if the BD accepted it there is no way to prove that it was invalid. Even if the new ger went and served AZ, we can't know whether he was sincere AT THE TIME OF THE GIYUR. And therefore the halacha is that we MUST treat him as a Jew. I suppose if he himself admits that he lied, then perhaps that will be sufficient, unless there's reason to believe that he's lying now. But I don't know of a source for even such a limited exception. Certainly without it one can't invalidate a giyur based merely on a guess.
32
Jun 30, 2009 at 02:51 PM YiddleKugel Says:
Why dont we see a similar conference here in the US. The problem is far worse here than in Israel
33
Jun 30, 2009 at 02:51 PM Charlie Hall Says:
“ Who was the Mishpetei Uziel?? And you have the chutzpah to talk about who is and isn't mainstream orthodox? ”
Rabbi Ben-Zion Meir Hai Uziel z'tz'l (1880-1953) was in succession the chief rabbi of Jaffa, Salonika, Tel Aviv, and Eretz Yisrael. He would certainly be "mainstream orthodox"!
34
Jun 30, 2009 at 02:50 PM Anonymous Says:
Assimilation is a huge problem, and we need many different organizations to create a plan to attack the most dangerous enemy to the Jewish nation. We have assimilation on all continents of the world, and as many organizations that we have fighting this enemy it still will be able to use more help. Chabad and other great organizations have been doing a great job all over the world for many years, but it is obvious that even more is needed and additional tactics to fight this enemy. In America our Defense Department use the Army, Marines, Navy, Coast Guard and many other groups to fight their enemies. This does not mean that they are not also working together. It is easy to critique such a fine man as Kaplan, or his organization, but give him credit for gathering some of the greatest individuals that we have in our community these days. We should applaud their efforts, and inquire how we can help them. Take a look at the wedding announcements in your local paper and you will find that this disease is rampant.
35
Jun 30, 2009 at 03:00 PM Aleppo, Brooklyn Says:
There is only one way to stop it, and the Syrian community has 100%: 1. Orthodox only, no reform, no conservative, 2. No marriage to converts or their children, 3. Taharat ha Mishpacha required of everyone, 4. Keeping community LOCAL. Everything else is like swimming against the current.
36
Jun 30, 2009 at 02:58 PM Anonymous Says:
“ No, it's a kulah. It has no basis in halacha. ”
Youir statement makes no sense. If there is no basis in halachah it is not a kula, it is an incorrect psak din.
37
Jun 30, 2009 at 03:07 PM harav shach tzodaik Says:
“ Let me expand on that, before someone gets the wrong idea. Of course kabolas ol mitzvos is the most important part of giyur. But there is no requirement at all that the candidate start keeping everything immediately; in fact it's expected that a new ger will do things wrong through lack of knowledge. The modern custom of requiring years of education is an innovation that has no precedent in Jewish literature. In Chazal's day the whole process of giyur seems to have taken no more than a day; once the BD was convinced that the candidate was sincere and committed to sticking it out, they would convert him immediately and teach him later. What is required is not kabolas hamitzvos, but kabolas OL mitzvos; the candidate does not promise not to eat chelev, but accepts that if he eats chelev he will be punished, just like any Jew.
Second, while the kaboloh must be sincere, we are not mind readers, and if the BD accepted it there is no way to prove that it was invalid. Even if the new ger went and served AZ, we can't know whether he was sincere AT THE TIME OF THE GIYUR. And therefore the halacha is that we MUST treat him as a Jew. I suppose if he himself admits that he lied, then perhaps that will be sufficient, unless there's reason to believe that he's lying now. But I don't know of a source for even such a limited exception. Certainly without it one can't invalidate a giyur based merely on a guess. ”
It is up to today's poskim and manhigim and not baalabatim on the internet to decide what joining klal yisrael requires in this generation.
38
Jun 30, 2009 at 03:25 PM harav shach tzodaik Says:
“ Why dont we see a similar conference here in the US. The problem is far worse here than in Israel ”
Any reason to think so? I would think the problem is worse there. Here 'geirem' less than committed to torah u'mitzvos get Conservative or Reforn 'conversion' and thanks to reb moshe a"h we know they are 100% not geirem.
In Eretz Yisrael ALL conversions go thru frum bais din so knowing who is converted and who isn't is of much greater importance.
In America, the child of a convert eishes ish who leaves her husband and has children with another man doesn't create momzairim if the conversion was Conservative or Reform, as most are, as the children of a yid and a non-Jewish spouse is kosher to be megayer and marry kosher yiddin.
In Eretz Yisrael the same woman would have had an Orthodox conversion, an Orthodox wedding and likely produces full-fledged mamzairim.
39
Jun 30, 2009 at 03:30 PM Anonymous Says:
“ There is only one way to stop it, and the Syrian community has 100%: 1. Orthodox only, no reform, no conservative, 2. No marriage to converts or their children, 3. Taharat ha Mishpacha required of everyone, 4. Keeping community LOCAL. Everything else is like swimming against the current. ”
The Syrian community is falling apart as the kids rebel against the strictures of their parents!
All these fantasy attempts to shut out the world and pretend it doesn't exist are doomed to utter and deserved failure.
40
Jun 30, 2009 at 04:24 PM chabad 007 Says:
“ Why was Chabad that actually saved many Jews from intermarriage not represented ??? If the goal is Kiruv and save many from intermarriage propbably Chabad has the most experience and has much to offer. Folks I sense we need achdus. ”
whoever knows a little about chabad knows that the rebbe never advocated geirus performed by his shluchim
41
Jun 30, 2009 at 05:02 PM Anonymous Says:
There are prominent Rabonim both in EY and USA who hold that this gathering will only weaken the standing of geirus.
42
Jun 30, 2009 at 05:30 PM tzoorba Says:
“ Let me expand on that, before someone gets the wrong idea. Of course kabolas ol mitzvos is the most important part of giyur. But there is no requirement at all that the candidate start keeping everything immediately; in fact it's expected that a new ger will do things wrong through lack of knowledge. The modern custom of requiring years of education is an innovation that has no precedent in Jewish literature. In Chazal's day the whole process of giyur seems to have taken no more than a day; once the BD was convinced that the candidate was sincere and committed to sticking it out, they would convert him immediately and teach him later. What is required is not kabolas hamitzvos, but kabolas OL mitzvos; the candidate does not promise not to eat chelev, but accepts that if he eats chelev he will be punished, just like any Jew.
Second, while the kaboloh must be sincere, we are not mind readers, and if the BD accepted it there is no way to prove that it was invalid. Even if the new ger went and served AZ, we can't know whether he was sincere AT THE TIME OF THE GIYUR. And therefore the halacha is that we MUST treat him as a Jew. I suppose if he himself admits that he lied, then perhaps that will be sufficient, unless there's reason to believe that he's lying now. But I don't know of a source for even such a limited exception. Certainly without it one can't invalidate a giyur based merely on a guess. ”
Where do you take it from that the Ger doesn't have to fully do mitzvos from day one? One of the reasons for the long preparation period is so that the Ger knows enough to keep the mitzvos fully. This doesn't mean he can't make any mistakes. It just means that he can't start off driving on Shabbos and keeping Shabbos later.
If someone is megayer and immediately moves to a place where there is no mikva for a thousand miles, it is clear that there was no sincere intent for kabolas mitzvos. I don't know what the time threshold is but if in a very short order after the geirus the ger enters a situation that basic mitzva observance is impossible, it is clear that the kabbolas mitzvos was bogus.
43
Jun 30, 2009 at 05:23 PM tzoorba Says:
“ Who was the Mishpetei Uziel?? And you have the chutzpah to talk about who is and isn't mainstream orthodox? ”
You know who the Mishpetei Uziel was? Good for you. Your one of a million.
Who said anything about mainstream orthodox? All I said was that the dayanim who do geirus that I have spoken with have a different opinion.
44
Jun 30, 2009 at 06:16 PM Anonymous Says:
“ whoever knows a little about chabad knows that the rebbe never advocated geirus performed by his shluchim ”
Indeed correct. I was at a dinner with my local shaliach. As soon as he realized that some of the kids present were the children of a woman who had had a conservative conversion, he and his wife lost complete interest in them, it was quite remarkable for its rudeness.
45
Jun 30, 2009 at 06:56 PM Bunimfrombrooklyn Says:
“ The Syrian community is falling apart as the kids rebel against the strictures of their parents!
All these fantasy attempts to shut out the world and pretend it doesn't exist are doomed to utter and deserved failure. ”
Syrians falling apart???
Are you nuts?!???
Anyone in Flatbush/Lakewood knows how quick they are growing to yiddishkeit
do you need me to name you all the yeshivot/ kollelim/Shuls just in the ny/nj area?!????
46
Jun 30, 2009 at 06:50 PM Anonymous Says:
“ There are prominent Rabonim both in EY and USA who hold that this gathering will only weaken the standing of geirus.
”
Can you please list those rabonim
47
Jun 30, 2009 at 07:11 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Where do you take it from that the Ger doesn't have to fully do mitzvos from day one? One of the reasons for the long preparation period is so that the Ger knows enough to keep the mitzvos fully. This doesn't mean he can't make any mistakes. It just means that he can't start off driving on Shabbos and keeping Shabbos later.
If someone is megayer and immediately moves to a place where there is no mikva for a thousand miles, it is clear that there was no sincere intent for kabolas mitzvos. I don't know what the time threshold is but if in a very short order after the geirus the ger enters a situation that basic mitzva observance is impossible, it is clear that the kabbolas mitzvos was bogus.
”
There is no basis for a long preparation period. The description of gerus in the gemoro, and brought lehalocho in Rambam and Shulchon Oruch, is of a very short process, during which he only learns MIKTZAS mitzvos kalos and MIKTZAS mitzvos chamuros. He is not told "until now you could eat chelev and now you can't"; instead, he is told "until now if you ate chelev you were not punished with kores, and now if you eat chelev you will be punished with kores".
There is no time threshold. Look in Rambam and Shulchon Oruch; as soon as he was tovel he is a Jew, and EVEN IF HE SERVES AZ he must be treated as a Jew. There is nothing about how long after the tevilah he did this; it's mashma even if it was the same day.
48
Jun 30, 2009 at 07:11 PM Anonymous Says:
“ if they really care about the safety of jewish souls and they would like to actually save them and talk with people who actually work day to day to save yiddishe neshamos and share ideas and network they would talk with satmar ger chabad movement belzer chassidim
instead this is about making themselves feel good and undermining a decisive group of people who are working very very hard to help
soo i really question their motives these people cannot be ignored ”
Read the artile again and you will see that gur had a representative rabbi shaul alter shlita and so did belz have rabbi pinchos friedman attending and they actually do work with some dayanim from chabad
So before you make your remarks read the article do some research
49
Jun 30, 2009 at 07:05 PM Milhouse Says:
“ It is up to today's poskim and manhigim and not baalabatim on the internet to decide what joining klal yisrael requires in this generation. ”
It changes from generation to generation? What are you, Reform?!
50
Jun 30, 2009 at 07:04 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Youir statement makes no sense. If there is no basis in halachah it is not a kula, it is an incorrect psak din. ”
It's a BIG kula in "va'ahavtem es hager". Like driving on shabbos is a kula.
51
Jun 30, 2009 at 07:03 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Rabbi Ben-Zion Meir Hai Uziel z'tz'l (1880-1953) was in succession the chief rabbi of Jaffa, Salonika, Tel Aviv, and Eretz Yisrael. He would certainly be "mainstream orthodox"! ”
Yes, that is precisely my point.
52
Jun 30, 2009 at 07:17 PM Milhouse Says:
“ Indeed correct. I was at a dinner with my local shaliach. As soon as he realized that some of the kids present were the children of a woman who had had a conservative conversion, he and his wife lost complete interest in them, it was quite remarkable for its rudeness. ”
Why should they take interest in children who are not Jewish?
53
Jun 30, 2009 at 08:53 PM harav shach tzodaik Says:
“ Why should they take interest in children who are not Jewish? ”
It sounds like the issue was not so much the shalich's discontinuing his missionary work with the children as much as his failure to disentangle himself gracefully.
54
Jun 30, 2009 at 08:42 PM harav shach tzodaik Says:
“ It changes from generation to generation? What are you, Reform?! ”
If the rabbonim see a need to make gairus less hassle-free in our generation than yes, they have the right and in fact the duty to take whatever steps they deem proper for the good of klal yisrael.
I see you are still incapable of carrying on a conversation like a normal person. You still look for every feeble excuse to turn every point of debate into an exchange of unpleasentries.
How sad that a man your age can't move past the early stages of childhood development. Or is it just something in the drinking water in Monsey that has turned you entire persona toxically acidic?
55
Jun 30, 2009 at 08:01 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Why should they take interest in children who are not Jewish? ”
I was simply confirming the point that chabad doesn't appear to be in the geirus business. The observation on rudeness was merely a comment on a gratuitous and unnecessary level of incivility.
56
Jun 30, 2009 at 09:39 PM harav shach tzodaik Says:
“ There are prominent Rabonim both in EY and USA who hold that this gathering will only weaken the standing of geirus.
”
The project is endorsed by rav shteinman zul gezunt. That is as close as you can get today to getting the endorsment of morainu a"h himself.
In addition, it is endorsed by rav elyoshiv zul gezunt.
Rav Reuven is also involved.
So you have the gedolai eretz yisrael and America involved.
Why should any of us be concerned with the opinions of your prominent rabbonim?
Follow these three giants and you know you'll be doing the right thing.
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Jun 30, 2009 at 10:10 PM anshel Says:
#15 your not he first to observe this ..it has been stated so by the haskalah movement thruout the ages (christians, reform conservative etc) so your an intelligent observer. but you can always join their movement
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Jul 01, 2009 at 01:01 AM AMG Says:
“ There is only one way to stop it, and the Syrian community has 100%: 1. Orthodox only, no reform, no conservative, 2. No marriage to converts or their children, 3. Taharat ha Mishpacha required of everyone, 4. Keeping community LOCAL. Everything else is like swimming against the current. ”
this could only be accomplished in a community where the people care about each other and help each other in every possable way the way the Syrian community do for each other but in most other orthodox communities this is not the case therefore we have what we have
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Jul 02, 2009 at 10:40 PM reply to #12 & #10 Says:
Yeah "Achdus"! Where's Chabad??? Isn't it amazing that the very same people who laughed at and outright mocked Chabad (actually The Rebbe OBM) - regardind Kiruv of Yidden, are now the PIONEERS of Kiruv... Wow, they with their ORIGINAL ideas are gonna SAVE Klal Yisroel! Right! They; these Rabbies who are secluded from most of today"s Jewish population and don"t have a clue of what's going on out there - are going to save us all.
These people are totally out of touch with reality. What exactly are they gonna accomplish with these gatherings?! Perhaps one V'ida will lead to another one and yet another one and What will ACTUALLY BE ACCOMPLISHED? besides the obvious Pirud and Machlokes which stems from their terrible Ga'ava, I can't see who will benefit from this.
Oh. By the way: It became suddenly popular to "reach out"? Why don't they take care of all the problems that go on IN the community. Aren't they the EXPERTS? Wasn't this their arguement throughout?