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Jerusalem - Thousands of Charedim Protest Against Opening of Parking Lot on Shabbat |
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Clashes in Jerusalem (Photo: Gil Yohanan)
Dozens of police officers were deployed near the disputed parking lot and have placed roadblocks along the road in a bid to prevent the haredim from accessing the disputed parking lot.
Several hundred haredim tried to break into the parking lot opposite Jaffa Gate but were forcibly prevented from entering the area by police, Jerusalem police spokesman Shmuel Ben-Ruby.
Demonstrators also repeatedly attempted to lie down on the main road leading to the Karta parking lot. The Orthodox rioters were directing harsh derogatory terms at security officers, including "Nazis" and "anti-Semites."
Some protestors yelled at police: "We overcame the Nazis, and we shall overcome you too," while others chanted "you will burn in hell; the haredim will stick around."
Protestors formed a human chain in a bid to hinder police efforts to remove them from the scene of one protest. Police soon began detaining some of the demonstrators.
The protesters intermittently hurled rocks at police, and at passing vehicles elsewhere in the city, he said. There were no injuries reported in the altercation.
After the Sabbath, several garbage bins in the city's Mea Shearim neighborhood were also set on fire.
Protest Photo: Ronen Medzini
The violent haredi protests erupted a month ago after the city opened the municipal parking lot on Saturdays free of charge to accommodate weekend visitors to the capital.
Seeking to reach a compromise, Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat subsequently decided to open the Carta parking lot opposite the walled Old City - which is further away from haredi neighborhoods - instead, but the move has failed to quash the protests.
Barkat spokesman Evyatar Elad said Saturday that the decision to open the parking lot on Saturdays stands.
"The mayor is committed to the safety of the public," Elad said. 370 motorists used the car park on Saturday, he said.
The ultra-Orthodox public has been urged to take part in the Mea Shearim protests in recent days after notices to that effect were posted in the capital. As opposed to last week's protests, which were largely spontaneous, this week demonstrators will receive official support in the form of community rabbis, expected to head the protest marches.
Last week, 57 ultra-Orthodox suspects were detained in connection with assaults on police officers, engaging in illegal protests, and violent riots. Some of the detainees have already been indicted at court.
The original decision to open the parking garage on Saturdays was made at the urging of police who said that double parked cars on major city thoroughfares were causing a safety hazard.
Ultra orthodox demonstrators try to prevent from cars to enter the Karta parking lot on Saturday July 4, 2009 The Karta parking lot is a replacemant for the Safra parking lot that sparked riots in Jerusalem due to the objection of the Ultra orthodox in Jerusalem. Photo by Matanya Tausig/Flash90
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Read Comments (52) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 04, 2009 at 09:02 PM Anonymous Says:
NICE!! An alterer Yid in full Chassidic garb, shaking his fist a police officer, the same police officer he'll expect to attend to his needs if he is attacked.
These people need some basic lessons in mentchlechkeit, even if their concerns are valid.
2
Jul 04, 2009 at 09:01 PM Anonymous Says:
Why would a man with the white beard clinch a fist to the police officer, as if he is going to punch him in the face, at least from the back it looks as the police officer is just standing there, and getting abused by this man, here comes Millhouse with self defense argument.
3
Jul 04, 2009 at 09:07 PM B'H Says:
Its good no one was hurt or arrested... That withstanding I am 100% supporting the charedi against the secular enchroachment and desecration of Shabbos. Its bad enough they are opening a parking lot for seculars in a charedi neighborhood but now they are charging a fee! For the sake of pikuach nefesh I stand with the charedi!
4
Jul 04, 2009 at 09:11 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Its good no one was hurt or arrested... That withstanding I am 100% supporting the charedi against the secular enchroachment and desecration of Shabbos. Its bad enough they are opening a parking lot for seculars in a charedi neighborhood but now they are charging a fee! For the sake of pikuach nefesh I stand with the charedi! ”
worng Ynet reports 1 was arrested.
5
Jul 04, 2009 at 09:17 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Its good no one was hurt or arrested... That withstanding I am 100% supporting the charedi against the secular enchroachment and desecration of Shabbos. Its bad enough they are opening a parking lot for seculars in a charedi neighborhood but now they are charging a fee! For the sake of pikuach nefesh I stand with the charedi! ”
What about this guy in the photo are they just pulling him apart or arresting him.
6
Jul 04, 2009 at 09:15 PM Anonymous Says:
“ NICE!! An alterer Yid in full Chassidic garb, shaking his fist a police officer, the same police officer he'll expect to attend to his needs if he is attacked.
These people need some basic lessons in mentchlechkeit, even if their concerns are valid. ”
You need some basic brains! To understand that you are going against the gedolie hadore!
7
Jul 04, 2009 at 09:48 PM Anonymous Says:
So where is Flatbush bubby and dog house or millhouse now?
So let me see if this makes sense. We have "chasidim" or people who call themselves "frum" and they throw rocks on shabbos which is ASSUR but the "frum" peopel throw rocks to stop others from being michalel shabbos? So who is the dumb one?
More chilul shabbos is and was caused by these fools from meah shearim in the name of protecting shabbos by causing police to be michalel shabbos in order to stop the frum from protesting.
More Chilul shabbos was caused by having the police to call in even more police on horses to make law an order on the streets.
The list goes on and on of the chilul shabbos that was caused by "frum" people.
these idiots from meah sharim should be embarrased for the way they make all jews look to the worldwide media.
And how dare anyone say that the gedolim including Rav Eliyashav permitted this? I dare anyone to prove that ANY godol said this is the way a torah yid should act in public in the name of shabbos.
Rabbi Horowitz was 1000% correct with his article last week.
Nobody should come crying and screaming about saving jews from jail when they are thrown in there for acting like animals. There is a way to protest and let our voices be heard in the name of torah. But to act like behaimos and cause chilul shabbos ourselves is nuts and beyone belief and end completely embarrassing.
It does not shcok me how we have kids at risk. Just look at the parents. the apple does not fall from from the tree.
8
Jul 04, 2009 at 09:58 PM kingsley the chuchem Says:
#6 and those similar. I support the non payment of shabbos parking fees. But Israel is a secular country whom many of these Mea Shaarim protestor don't accept.
So bug off your high horses, u have no rights as of now.
Regarding the respect I have as u for gedolei Haddor-they have been misled us all before.!! 1. The concert prohibition -disgusting and most people now dis regard. 2.. No secular education in Israel and US - Litvish and chassidish! making economic cripples of our kids and parasites who work the sysem to exist with high tuition and expensive Kosher food. #. No gedolei Hador support for drug, alcohol ,gambling and sex addict programs in our communities. 4. Whitewashing sexual child abuse in our Torah institutions like the Church... The Gedolim have failed us and crippling our children while they were building wonderful large edifices for themselves...The NEW GEDOLEI HOTEL TAKANNAS IN ISRAEL PROHIBITING INTERNET ACCESS AND TV EXCEPT TO MARRIEDS WHICH MEANS I(being single!) WILL HAVE TO GET FAKE KESUBAH TO ACCESS MY BUSINESS MESSAGES AND IMPOSITION ON SECULAR GUESTS- GedolimREAL WINNERS INSTEAD OF Worrying about teaching hashkofa and the power of bechirus to our children and youth to making the RIGHT DECISION!!!
9
Jul 04, 2009 at 10:04 PM Anonymous Says:
“ So where is Flatbush bubby and dog house or millhouse now?
So let me see if this makes sense. We have "chasidim" or people who call themselves "frum" and they throw rocks on shabbos which is ASSUR but the "frum" peopel throw rocks to stop others from being michalel shabbos? So who is the dumb one?
More chilul shabbos is and was caused by these fools from meah shearim in the name of protecting shabbos by causing police to be michalel shabbos in order to stop the frum from protesting.
More Chilul shabbos was caused by having the police to call in even more police on horses to make law an order on the streets.
The list goes on and on of the chilul shabbos that was caused by "frum" people.
these idiots from meah sharim should be embarrased for the way they make all jews look to the worldwide media.
And how dare anyone say that the gedolim including Rav Eliyashav permitted this? I dare anyone to prove that ANY godol said this is the way a torah yid should act in public in the name of shabbos.
Rabbi Horowitz was 1000% correct with his article last week.
Nobody should come crying and screaming about saving jews from jail when they are thrown in there for acting like animals. There is a way to protest and let our voices be heard in the name of torah. But to act like behaimos and cause chilul shabbos ourselves is nuts and beyone belief and end completely embarrassing.
It does not shcok me how we have kids at risk. Just look at the parents. the apple does not fall from from the tree. ”
I'm totally not convinced that u have any idea what ur talking about. One think that is obvious is YOU HAVE NO DAS TORAH SO STOP USING THE TORAH FOR YOUR STICK
10
Jul 04, 2009 at 10:02 PM Elections Have Consequences Says:
“ So where is Flatbush bubby and dog house or millhouse now?
So let me see if this makes sense. We have "chasidim" or people who call themselves "frum" and they throw rocks on shabbos which is ASSUR but the "frum" peopel throw rocks to stop others from being michalel shabbos? So who is the dumb one?
More chilul shabbos is and was caused by these fools from meah shearim in the name of protecting shabbos by causing police to be michalel shabbos in order to stop the frum from protesting.
More Chilul shabbos was caused by having the police to call in even more police on horses to make law an order on the streets.
The list goes on and on of the chilul shabbos that was caused by "frum" people.
these idiots from meah sharim should be embarrased for the way they make all jews look to the worldwide media.
And how dare anyone say that the gedolim including Rav Eliyashav permitted this? I dare anyone to prove that ANY godol said this is the way a torah yid should act in public in the name of shabbos.
Rabbi Horowitz was 1000% correct with his article last week.
Nobody should come crying and screaming about saving jews from jail when they are thrown in there for acting like animals. There is a way to protest and let our voices be heard in the name of torah. But to act like behaimos and cause chilul shabbos ourselves is nuts and beyone belief and end completely embarrassing.
It does not shcok me how we have kids at risk. Just look at the parents. the apple does not fall from from the tree. ”
OK OK OK OK Enough out of you already. Take that big blue & white flag and put it away already. Now what do you have to say?
The dumb one is you for thinking that all will be well if we dont let them know -- SHABBOS
11
Jul 04, 2009 at 10:04 PM Anonymous Says:
“ So where is Flatbush bubby and dog house or millhouse now?
So let me see if this makes sense. We have "chasidim" or people who call themselves "frum" and they throw rocks on shabbos which is ASSUR but the "frum" peopel throw rocks to stop others from being michalel shabbos? So who is the dumb one?
More chilul shabbos is and was caused by these fools from meah shearim in the name of protecting shabbos by causing police to be michalel shabbos in order to stop the frum from protesting.
More Chilul shabbos was caused by having the police to call in even more police on horses to make law an order on the streets.
The list goes on and on of the chilul shabbos that was caused by "frum" people.
these idiots from meah sharim should be embarrased for the way they make all jews look to the worldwide media.
And how dare anyone say that the gedolim including Rav Eliyashav permitted this? I dare anyone to prove that ANY godol said this is the way a torah yid should act in public in the name of shabbos.
Rabbi Horowitz was 1000% correct with his article last week.
Nobody should come crying and screaming about saving jews from jail when they are thrown in there for acting like animals. There is a way to protest and let our voices be heard in the name of torah. But to act like behaimos and cause chilul shabbos ourselves is nuts and beyone belief and end completely embarrassing.
It does not shcok me how we have kids at risk. Just look at the parents. the apple does not fall from from the tree. ”
I'm totally not convinced that u have any idea what ur talking about. One think that is obvious is YOU HAVE NO DAS TORAH SO STOP USING THE TORAH FOR YOUR STICK
12
Jul 04, 2009 at 10:02 PM Elections Have Consequences Says:
“ So where is Flatbush bubby and dog house or millhouse now?
So let me see if this makes sense. We have "chasidim" or people who call themselves "frum" and they throw rocks on shabbos which is ASSUR but the "frum" peopel throw rocks to stop others from being michalel shabbos? So who is the dumb one?
More chilul shabbos is and was caused by these fools from meah shearim in the name of protecting shabbos by causing police to be michalel shabbos in order to stop the frum from protesting.
More Chilul shabbos was caused by having the police to call in even more police on horses to make law an order on the streets.
The list goes on and on of the chilul shabbos that was caused by "frum" people.
these idiots from meah sharim should be embarrased for the way they make all jews look to the worldwide media.
And how dare anyone say that the gedolim including Rav Eliyashav permitted this? I dare anyone to prove that ANY godol said this is the way a torah yid should act in public in the name of shabbos.
Rabbi Horowitz was 1000% correct with his article last week.
Nobody should come crying and screaming about saving jews from jail when they are thrown in there for acting like animals. There is a way to protest and let our voices be heard in the name of torah. But to act like behaimos and cause chilul shabbos ourselves is nuts and beyone belief and end completely embarrassing.
It does not shcok me how we have kids at risk. Just look at the parents. the apple does not fall from from the tree. ”
OK OK OK OK Enough out of you already. Take that big blue & white flag and put it away already. Now what do you have to say?
The dumb one is you for thinking that all will be well if we dont let them know -- SHABBOS
13
Jul 04, 2009 at 10:14 PM Anonymous Says:
Several garbage bins were set on fire in Meah Shearim after Shabbos? Why??? What was the point? To hurt the Charedishe Yiddin who live there? Was it done by American Yeshiva bochurim again?
14
Jul 04, 2009 at 10:10 PM Anonymous Says:
“ So where is Flatbush bubby and dog house or millhouse now?
So let me see if this makes sense. We have "chasidim" or people who call themselves "frum" and they throw rocks on shabbos which is ASSUR but the "frum" peopel throw rocks to stop others from being michalel shabbos? So who is the dumb one?
More chilul shabbos is and was caused by these fools from meah shearim in the name of protecting shabbos by causing police to be michalel shabbos in order to stop the frum from protesting.
More Chilul shabbos was caused by having the police to call in even more police on horses to make law an order on the streets.
The list goes on and on of the chilul shabbos that was caused by "frum" people.
these idiots from meah sharim should be embarrased for the way they make all jews look to the worldwide media.
And how dare anyone say that the gedolim including Rav Eliyashav permitted this? I dare anyone to prove that ANY godol said this is the way a torah yid should act in public in the name of shabbos.
Rabbi Horowitz was 1000% correct with his article last week.
Nobody should come crying and screaming about saving jews from jail when they are thrown in there for acting like animals. There is a way to protest and let our voices be heard in the name of torah. But to act like behaimos and cause chilul shabbos ourselves is nuts and beyone belief and end completely embarrassing.
It does not shcok me how we have kids at risk. Just look at the parents. the apple does not fall from from the tree. ”
while i may agree with some of what you wrote .... i differ on the last sentence....
many children that are at risk come from the finest homes... how can you say something so cruel? "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree'' you are basically saying loshon hara and being motzi shem ra anyone in that situation.
Hashem should bless us all with erliche frum yirei shomayim'dige children untill 120 years healthy and happy! and may Hashem open the eyes to all those that strayed. ''v'haer einenu b'sorasecha...'' and may they be chozer b'tshuvah and give their parents alot of yidish nachas!!
15
Jul 04, 2009 at 10:07 PM Anonymous Says:
“ #6 and those similar. I support the non payment of shabbos parking fees. But Israel is a secular country whom many of these Mea Shaarim protestor don't accept.
So bug off your high horses, u have no rights as of now.
Regarding the respect I have as u for gedolei Haddor-they have been misled us all before.!! 1. The concert prohibition -disgusting and most people now dis regard. 2.. No secular education in Israel and US - Litvish and chassidish! making economic cripples of our kids and parasites who work the sysem to exist with high tuition and expensive Kosher food. #. No gedolei Hador support for drug, alcohol ,gambling and sex addict programs in our communities. 4. Whitewashing sexual child abuse in our Torah institutions like the Church... The Gedolim have failed us and crippling our children while they were building wonderful large edifices for themselves...The NEW GEDOLEI HOTEL TAKANNAS IN ISRAEL PROHIBITING INTERNET ACCESS AND TV EXCEPT TO MARRIEDS WHICH MEANS I(being single!) WILL HAVE TO GET FAKE KESUBAH TO ACCESS MY BUSINESS MESSAGES AND IMPOSITION ON SECULAR GUESTS- GedolimREAL WINNERS INSTEAD OF Worrying about teaching hashkofa and the power of bechirus to our children and youth to making the RIGHT DECISION!!! ”
You are an apikores...throwing dirt on the names of the gadolim is generally inappropriate even if you disagree with their continued support for these demonstrations. Its clean they have no idea of whats going on in the real world but that is not an excuse to show such a profound lack of derech eretz.
16
Jul 04, 2009 at 10:29 PM Anonymous Says:
“ So where is Flatbush bubby and dog house or millhouse now?
So let me see if this makes sense. We have "chasidim" or people who call themselves "frum" and they throw rocks on shabbos which is ASSUR but the "frum" peopel throw rocks to stop others from being michalel shabbos? So who is the dumb one?
More chilul shabbos is and was caused by these fools from meah shearim in the name of protecting shabbos by causing police to be michalel shabbos in order to stop the frum from protesting.
More Chilul shabbos was caused by having the police to call in even more police on horses to make law an order on the streets.
The list goes on and on of the chilul shabbos that was caused by "frum" people.
these idiots from meah sharim should be embarrased for the way they make all jews look to the worldwide media.
And how dare anyone say that the gedolim including Rav Eliyashav permitted this? I dare anyone to prove that ANY godol said this is the way a torah yid should act in public in the name of shabbos.
Rabbi Horowitz was 1000% correct with his article last week.
Nobody should come crying and screaming about saving jews from jail when they are thrown in there for acting like animals. There is a way to protest and let our voices be heard in the name of torah. But to act like behaimos and cause chilul shabbos ourselves is nuts and beyone belief and end completely embarrassing.
It does not shcok me how we have kids at risk. Just look at the parents. the apple does not fall from from the tree. ”
to answer your question "who is the dumb one" it seems to me that you and everyone else that focuses on the few nutcasese that get violent are. do you honestly think that all of the protesters throw rocks. do you think that none of them really care about the chillul shabbos that is going on and are all just there for some action. i hate to tell you that your negativity is the cause for kids at risk and not a few charedim throwing rocks
17
Jul 04, 2009 at 10:21 PM Yisroel Says:
If just a few of these chareidim would do something positive for a change and invite someone less religious to them to a shabbos meal, or learn with someone secular once a week. But no, the secularists are now "nazis." Very, very sad indeed.
18
Jul 04, 2009 at 09:53 PM cool masmid Says:
“ You need some basic brains! To understand that you are going against the gedolie hadore! ”
Name me ONE Gadol that said they should behave in this manner..... by this I mean roughing up police officers, throwing stones at police officers and at cars, burning garbage cans (EVEN on Motzoei Shabbos) - I stand with all the Charedim as they look to preserve Kedushas Shabbos, but the way they go about it is ONE HUNDRED % wrong ..... They are putting themselves and others in danger, are causing a huge chilul Hashem and are themselves being mechalel Shabbos.......
19
Jul 04, 2009 at 09:52 PM Anonymous Says:
“ NICE!! An alterer Yid in full Chassidic garb, shaking his fist a police officer, the same police officer he'll expect to attend to his needs if he is attacked.
These people need some basic lessons in mentchlechkeit, even if their concerns are valid. ”
You totally don't sound like u have any clue what your talking about these police never respond when chariedy jews r attacked it can take a hour till they come when if you call them that there is a hafguna there on the scene in 1 min with the whole cruel police station
20
Jul 04, 2009 at 10:48 PM Anonymous Says:
These guys don't really care about the parking lot being open they just have nothing better to do with their lives so they all show up and "protest" these guys are animals dress with beards and stramels they should learn a little ahavas yisroel and menchlichkite. Ahavas yisroel is not only for their fellow "chassidm" but for the jewish police officers they are throwing stones at.ahavas yisroel is for every single jew whether they are "frum" or not.
by they way I thought throwing stones on shabbas was chilul shabbas, talk about hypocrits
21
Jul 04, 2009 at 11:14 PM Anonymous Says:
“ to answer your question "who is the dumb one" it seems to me that you and everyone else that focuses on the few nutcasese that get violent are. do you honestly think that all of the protesters throw rocks. do you think that none of them really care about the chillul shabbos that is going on and are all just there for some action. i hate to tell you that your negativity is the cause for kids at risk and not a few charedim throwing rocks ”
You are the one who is ill informed, when the new of the protests flashes around the world on TV nobody report what your argument is that only a few throw stones and lit up garbage cans, the news all over the world projects there was mass protests by fanatical Jews rocks and nappies and burning garbage cans was all over the main street, I hope you get that into you head that what the news reports and you supports this therefore, you are not better then the guy who throw the rocks.
22
Jul 04, 2009 at 11:24 PM Anonymous Says:
“ #6 and those similar. I support the non payment of shabbos parking fees. But Israel is a secular country whom many of these Mea Shaarim protestor don't accept.
So bug off your high horses, u have no rights as of now.
Regarding the respect I have as u for gedolei Haddor-they have been misled us all before.!! 1. The concert prohibition -disgusting and most people now dis regard. 2.. No secular education in Israel and US - Litvish and chassidish! making economic cripples of our kids and parasites who work the sysem to exist with high tuition and expensive Kosher food. #. No gedolei Hador support for drug, alcohol ,gambling and sex addict programs in our communities. 4. Whitewashing sexual child abuse in our Torah institutions like the Church... The Gedolim have failed us and crippling our children while they were building wonderful large edifices for themselves...The NEW GEDOLEI HOTEL TAKANNAS IN ISRAEL PROHIBITING INTERNET ACCESS AND TV EXCEPT TO MARRIEDS WHICH MEANS I(being single!) WILL HAVE TO GET FAKE KESUBAH TO ACCESS MY BUSINESS MESSAGES AND IMPOSITION ON SECULAR GUESTS- GedolimREAL WINNERS INSTEAD OF Worrying about teaching hashkofa and the power of bechirus to our children and youth to making the RIGHT DECISION!!! ”
Wow you truly must be a "chuchem" as you call yourself. Where you have the chutzpah to talk about gedolim like that is beyond me and hopefully anyone with a half brain. You will have alot to account for in the world to come!
23
Jul 04, 2009 at 11:31 PM Anonymous Says:
“ If just a few of these chareidim would do something positive for a change and invite someone less religious to them to a shabbos meal, or learn with someone secular once a week. But no, the secularists are now "nazis." Very, very sad indeed. ”
U can't invite them for a shabbos meal as the wine will become yayin nasech
24
Jul 04, 2009 at 11:30 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You need some basic brains! To understand that you are going against the gedolie hadore! ”
Oh, so YOUR "Gedolei Hadore" encourage threatening behavior against the police? Well, of course, that makes it all peachy-keen, doesn't it?
25
Jul 04, 2009 at 11:29 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You are the one who is ill informed, when the new of the protests flashes around the world on TV nobody report what your argument is that only a few throw stones and lit up garbage cans, the news all over the world projects there was mass protests by fanatical Jews rocks and nappies and burning garbage cans was all over the main street, I hope you get that into you head that what the news reports and you supports this therefore, you are not better then the guy who throw the rocks. ”
the news also reported that israelis where killing "innocent" gazans. whats your point who gives a damn about what the news says. i definitly dont formulate my decisions based on the way news agencies report things. oh and i dont support throwing rocks or nappies so im not sure why saying that the violent protesters are in the minority shows mr support for thema. you people cant get it through your thick skulls that there are people who really care about judaism and dont throw rocks.
26
Jul 05, 2009 at 01:16 AM Anonymous Says:
Only one protester was arrested yesterday at the Carta garage, after he tried to pull down a parking light. Police said they hoped the softer response this week and last week's arrests had "scared" the ultra-Orthodox, leading to yesterday's relatively moderate protest
27
Jul 05, 2009 at 02:02 AM Anonymous Says:
The cops should spray the protresters with artificial skunk spray . that should do the trick for a while .
28
Jul 05, 2009 at 12:36 AM Anonymous Says:
“ the news also reported that israelis where killing "innocent" gazans. whats your point who gives a damn about what the news says. i definitly dont formulate my decisions based on the way news agencies report things. oh and i dont support throwing rocks or nappies so im not sure why saying that the violent protesters are in the minority shows mr support for thema. you people cant get it through your thick skulls that there are people who really care about judaism and dont throw rocks. ”
I’ll try once more and this is the last bite I will take, the question is not what you believe or care, the real question is who is responsible for a bigger Chillul Hashem the protester or the Chillul Shabbos at parking lot, my reply to you was, that the protesters, why? simple the parking lot issue is a local Chillul Shabbos, and therefore a Chillul Hashem but only local, however, when the news flashes around the world and they way it is reported by the news, it reflects only on the violence perpetrated by the demonstrators, they never reports that the violence was only committed by a few out of the thousands who were there. And because you support the demonstration by definition you yourself committed a bigger Chillul Hashem, regardless if you read or watch the news, your view doesn’t count when it comes to Chillul Hashem, the view of the viewer or reader which counts, the sin of Chillul Hashem is only when a none Jew sees a Jew not conforming to our Torah.
29
Jul 05, 2009 at 12:36 AM Anonymous Says:
“ These guys don't really care about the parking lot being open they just have nothing better to do with their lives so they all show up and "protest" these guys are animals dress with beards and stramels they should learn a little ahavas yisroel and menchlichkite. Ahavas yisroel is not only for their fellow "chassidm" but for the jewish police officers they are throwing stones at.ahavas yisroel is for every single jew whether they are "frum" or not.
by they way I thought throwing stones on shabbas was chilul shabbas, talk about hypocrits
”
where is your ahavas yisroel calling a fellow jew an animak dressed in beards???
1) not all of them were throwing stones...so don't stereotype.. ..i'm not chassidish and was in meah shearim several years ago.... they were so nice and treated me with the utmost respect.
2) even if they do throw stones ,,,which is wrong...you still shouldn't call them animals- 2 wrongs don't make a right....
we should ahavas yisrael to the frum and non frum..to all jews alike..
may we greet mashiach bekarov!!!
30
Jul 05, 2009 at 12:15 AM Anonymous Says:
I love hafganos - they're entertainment and fun. After a long day of learning who couldn't use a nice diversion.
31
Jul 05, 2009 at 12:02 AM daas baal habyis Says:
“ So where is Flatbush bubby and dog house or millhouse now?
So let me see if this makes sense. We have "chasidim" or people who call themselves "frum" and they throw rocks on shabbos which is ASSUR but the "frum" peopel throw rocks to stop others from being michalel shabbos? So who is the dumb one?
More chilul shabbos is and was caused by these fools from meah shearim in the name of protecting shabbos by causing police to be michalel shabbos in order to stop the frum from protesting.
More Chilul shabbos was caused by having the police to call in even more police on horses to make law an order on the streets.
The list goes on and on of the chilul shabbos that was caused by "frum" people.
these idiots from meah sharim should be embarrased for the way they make all jews look to the worldwide media.
And how dare anyone say that the gedolim including Rav Eliyashav permitted this? I dare anyone to prove that ANY godol said this is the way a torah yid should act in public in the name of shabbos.
Rabbi Horowitz was 1000% correct with his article last week.
Nobody should come crying and screaming about saving jews from jail when they are thrown in there for acting like animals. There is a way to protest and let our voices be heard in the name of torah. But to act like behaimos and cause chilul shabbos ourselves is nuts and beyone belief and end completely embarrassing.
It does not shcok me how we have kids at risk. Just look at the parents. the apple does not fall from from the tree. ”
Ijust sew a tshuve in "tshuves v'hanugos" from rav staranbuch were he writes that that its "muter" to protest against chilil shabes even if if you are "gorim" more chilil shobos
32
Jul 04, 2009 at 11:41 PM Bob Says:
“ NICE!! An alterer Yid in full Chassidic garb, shaking his fist a police officer, the same police officer he'll expect to attend to his needs if he is attacked.
These people need some basic lessons in mentchlechkeit, even if their concerns are valid. ”
You are totaly wrong. In israel a religous Jew needs protection just he shouldn't be attacked by a non-religous Jew. That elderly Holy Chasidic Jew,dosn't need protection from the zionists,Hashem is the only one that gives him protection.
33
Jul 05, 2009 at 07:37 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I’ll try once more and this is the last bite I will take, the question is not what you believe or care, the real question is who is responsible for a bigger Chillul Hashem the protester or the Chillul Shabbos at parking lot, my reply to you was, that the protesters, why? simple the parking lot issue is a local Chillul Shabbos, and therefore a Chillul Hashem but only local, however, when the news flashes around the world and they way it is reported by the news, it reflects only on the violence perpetrated by the demonstrators, they never reports that the violence was only committed by a few out of the thousands who were there. And because you support the demonstration by definition you yourself committed a bigger Chillul Hashem, regardless if you read or watch the news, your view doesn’t count when it comes to Chillul Hashem, the view of the viewer or reader which counts, the sin of Chillul Hashem is only when a none Jew sees a Jew not conforming to our Torah.
”
so by your logic if you supported the war in gaza you are being mechalel shem shomayim because the world portrays israel as the agressors of inoccent palestinians. and since people view it that way it is a chillul hashem!?
34
Jul 05, 2009 at 07:32 AM End of Days Says:
I sense Erev Rav at work - on both sides!
35
Jul 05, 2009 at 07:29 AM shmilkubacsi Says:
we are kidding ourselfs theese demonstrators want power that is what drives them to act in this way religion is only an excuse for them to do whatever they wish as they grow in numbesr they get bolder in their behaviour just like by the goyim chareidim use violence to get their way similar to the mullahs in iran look whats happening there anything in extreeme is harmfull to people and they are very extreeme, one who doesnt learn from the past is doomed to repeat it
36
Jul 05, 2009 at 07:54 AM Anonymous Says:
“ If just a few of these chareidim would do something positive for a change and invite someone less religious to them to a shabbos meal, or learn with someone secular once a week. But no, the secularists are now "nazis." Very, very sad indeed. ”
You are obviously ill informed and have never learnt in jerusalerm. All stripes and types are routinely invited by charaidem for shabbos meals, by perfect strangers. All these kiruv organizations i.e. Chesed l'avrum, Chabad, nechumas Yisroel, etc, are all run by charaidem (in fact these are run by chaseidim). I challange you to find me an organization for kiruv not run (or established) by charaidem - Ultra Orthodox.
37
Jul 05, 2009 at 07:50 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I’ll try once more and this is the last bite I will take, the question is not what you believe or care, the real question is who is responsible for a bigger Chillul Hashem the protester or the Chillul Shabbos at parking lot, my reply to you was, that the protesters, why? simple the parking lot issue is a local Chillul Shabbos, and therefore a Chillul Hashem but only local, however, when the news flashes around the world and they way it is reported by the news, it reflects only on the violence perpetrated by the demonstrators, they never reports that the violence was only committed by a few out of the thousands who were there. And because you support the demonstration by definition you yourself committed a bigger Chillul Hashem, regardless if you read or watch the news, your view doesn’t count when it comes to Chillul Hashem, the view of the viewer or reader which counts, the sin of Chillul Hashem is only when a none Jew sees a Jew not conforming to our Torah.
”
the rambam brings the story of yosef with eishas potifar as an example of a kiddush hashem. but according to you it was a chillul hashem beacause the egyptian media portrayed yosef as a rapist. im not saying the violent protester arent making a chillul hashem but the fact that the media focuses on the minority without saying that it was a very small percentage doesnt make the peacefull protesters or me into a mechalel shem shomayim. i
38
Jul 05, 2009 at 08:47 AM ZR Says:
The question we have to ask ourselves is: What is the *goal*, and how do we measure success?
1) Is the *goal* to close one car park? (Therefore its irrelevant if the protests turn off millions of Jews from Yiddishkeit, thereby increasing Chillul Shabbos.)
2) Or is the *goal* to decrease the amount of Chillul Shabbos in EY?
Are these protests going to result in more yidden keeping Shabbos? Yes or no? Or, are they going to result in LESS people keeping Shabbos because the unfavourable view they form on Chareidim and Yiddishkeit?
We first have to be clear what the *goal* is before we can ascertain if the protests are the best strategy to achieve success.
If the *goal* is #1, then by all means, continue the protests, as they have the best chance of success.
If the *goal* is #2 then these protests are extremely counterproductive to the *goal*. And the strategy that will be most effective in achieving goal #2 is the hard work of kiruv.
39
Jul 05, 2009 at 08:44 AM Anonymous Says:
I'm not condoning throwing rocks, I think it's wrong. However, my two cents are that it doesn't automatically involve chillul shabbos. If the rocks were prepared before shabbos for this purpose (which I repeat-is a wrong purpose) technically they are not muktzah.
40
Jul 05, 2009 at 08:50 AM The solution Says:
“ The cops should spray the protresters with artificial skunk spray . that should do the trick for a while . ”
Nope, the cops should spray paint the shtreimels - only a few drops would be enough to "posel" a $3000 shtreimel.
41
Jul 05, 2009 at 08:50 AM Chassidish & Ashamed Says:
“ You are totaly wrong. In israel a religous Jew needs protection just he shouldn't be attacked by a non-religous Jew. That elderly Holy Chasidic Jew,dosn't need protection from the zionists,Hashem is the only one that gives him protection. ”
Ummm....just HOW was that "elderly Jew" being attacked by the police officer? The picture I see is the Jew shaking his fist at the cop, who is standing there doing nothing to restrain him or hurt him, hands at his side. So who is acting with dignity here?
The problem with many of the comments is their illogicality. As soon as any Frum Yid does anything inappropriate, you defend them even as they do the indefensible. Yet if a "Zionist" was captured in the pictures behaving in the same way as the Chassidim do, you'd go ballistic. There are some very frum & Chassidishe people (like me!!) who feel these men behaved in a way that gives secular Israelis reasons to complain.
As for your opening statement...so in Israel, the only people who will attack a Frum Yid are secular/non-religious Jews? That makes the Arabs free to attack anyone, I suppose? After all, Meah Shearim-niks love the Arabs & befriend them, right? well, of course they do! In any circumstance, those crazies prefer an Arab to a secular Jew.
I think you are so stupid that logical thought has no basis in any flawed reasoning you come up with. Of course, you are in good company with so many other idiots. So if you all think that way, Chassidim who disagree with you (again, like I do) are wrong.
It must be nice to live outside reality, in the Jewish Twilight Zone.
42
Jul 05, 2009 at 08:56 AM Anonymous Says:
I defy anyone here to show me one - just ONE - person who became frum because a rock was thrown at him. "Wow, a rock hit me. That makes me want to serve Hashem for sure!" Anyone who thinks that these hafganot are accomplishing anything other than antagonizing people should sit down and think long and hard. Has anyone asked any of the Gedolim what these protests have actually accomplished? I can't tell you how embarrassing it is to have non-dati co-workers ask me about the riots. What am I supposed to tell them?
43
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:46 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I defy anyone here to show me one - just ONE - person who became frum because a rock was thrown at him. "Wow, a rock hit me. That makes me want to serve Hashem for sure!" Anyone who thinks that these hafganot are accomplishing anything other than antagonizing people should sit down and think long and hard. Has anyone asked any of the Gedolim what these protests have actually accomplished? I can't tell you how embarrassing it is to have non-dati co-workers ask me about the riots. What am I supposed to tell them? ”
why do you think the goal is kiruv? the point is to stop public shabbos desecration by jews being encouraged by a jewish government in a jewish country.
44
Jul 05, 2009 at 10:23 AM Also disqualified Says:
“ I defy anyone here to show me one - just ONE - person who became frum because a rock was thrown at him. "Wow, a rock hit me. That makes me want to serve Hashem for sure!" Anyone who thinks that these hafganot are accomplishing anything other than antagonizing people should sit down and think long and hard. Has anyone asked any of the Gedolim what these protests have actually accomplished? I can't tell you how embarrassing it is to have non-dati co-workers ask me about the riots. What am I supposed to tell them? ”
"I can't tell you how embarrassing it is to have non-dati co-workers ask me about the riots."
By writing the above sentence you disqualify yourself from having a valid opinion. If you are an erhrlich heimishe yid in EY you do not work; you live off the tax money of those who do work and you sit and learn (when you are not brushing your shtreimel to get the swirl perfect).
45
Jul 05, 2009 at 09:18 AM Megahouse Says:
A lot of people are misinterpreting the picture of the elderly chosid apparently shaking his fist at a cop. He is actually practicing for "borey mo'orey ha'aish" after tzays hashabbos. But wait a minute, isn't that preparing on shabbos for chol? I gotta think about this. Millehouse, can you help with this one?
46
Jul 05, 2009 at 10:34 AM Anonymous Says:
“ I’ll try once more and this is the last bite I will take, the question is not what you believe or care, the real question is who is responsible for a bigger Chillul Hashem the protester or the Chillul Shabbos at parking lot, my reply to you was, that the protesters, why? simple the parking lot issue is a local Chillul Shabbos, and therefore a Chillul Hashem but only local, however, when the news flashes around the world and they way it is reported by the news, it reflects only on the violence perpetrated by the demonstrators, they never reports that the violence was only committed by a few out of the thousands who were there. And because you support the demonstration by definition you yourself committed a bigger Chillul Hashem, regardless if you read or watch the news, your view doesn’t count when it comes to Chillul Hashem, the view of the viewer or reader which counts, the sin of Chillul Hashem is only when a none Jew sees a Jew not conforming to our Torah.
”
" the sin of Chillul Hashem is only when a none Jew sees a Jew not conforming to our Torah."
Just 2 clear up the most common mistake on VIN
That is so wrong!!!!!!
The sin is really when a jew sees it, it happens 2 b also when a non-jew sees it.
Learn b-fore u Preach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
47
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:13 AM Anonymous Says:
“ so by your logic if you supported the war in gaza you are being mechalel shem shomayim because the world portrays israel as the agressors of inoccent palestinians. and since people view it that way it is a chillul hashem!? ”
Your logic is only have right, I did support the war, but during the war, you had two different reporting, one the left which reported as aggression by Israel, and the center and right side of the spectrum, reported the war as an war against terror. They far left who espoused the view that Israel is the aggressor are supporters of the Arab cause, therefore, it is knowing and irrelevant what the reader or viewers of theses news outlets believe in. Most importantly that is one of the reason you should write and point out the truth to the editor when he misrepresent the action of Israel. Inasmuch when the news of the protest are reported by all news outlet it is presented as extremist are on a rampage in Jerusalem and trying for force with violence other inhabitants to conform to their extreme views.
48
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:17 AM rebrach Says:
“ NICE!! An alterer Yid in full Chassidic garb, shaking his fist a police officer, the same police officer he'll expect to attend to his needs if he is attacked.
These people need some basic lessons in mentchlechkeit, even if their concerns are valid. ”
The Yerushalmi Chasidim, and Talmidei HaGra, have a long tradition of refusing or seeking State aid in Israel. This is consistant with theri position of we don't pay nor do we expect to receive. When the State refused to allow the Ultra Orthodox, who were living in Israel way before the stablishment of a State, took away their rights to the business of private sector self help...in many area they we left with no choice. They provide their own electricty, water and local maintainence. Nonetheless the business of sewage, garbage removal, and the right to bare arms were removed from them and taken over by the State. Therefore it is historically and factually incorrect to say that they rely on the State...It is more accurate to say that in certain areas they were given no choice. - rebrach
49
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:23 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Your logic is only have right, I did support the war, but during the war, you had two different reporting, one the left which reported as aggression by Israel, and the center and right side of the spectrum, reported the war as an war against terror. They far left who espoused the view that Israel is the aggressor are supporters of the Arab cause, therefore, it is knowing and irrelevant what the reader or viewers of theses news outlets believe in. Most importantly that is one of the reason you should write and point out the truth to the editor when he misrepresent the action of Israel. Inasmuch when the news of the protest are reported by all news outlet it is presented as extremist are on a rampage in Jerusalem and trying for force with violence other inhabitants to conform to their extreme views. ”
and therefore that makes the people that protest nonviolently mechalei shem shomayim!? because the news makes it seem like everyone is violent!? refer back to the post about yosef hatzadik. you have no idea what a chillul hashem is.
50
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:28 AM Anonymous Says:
“ " the sin of Chillul Hashem is only when a none Jew sees a Jew not conforming to our Torah."
Just 2 clear up the most common mistake on VIN
That is so wrong!!!!!!
The sin is really when a jew sees it, it happens 2 b also when a non-jew sees it.
Learn b-fore u Preach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
”
In a way you are somewhat funny, you know why? you just proofed to the world you don’t know a thing about what Chillul Hashem is, you should at a minimum looked up the meaning and when it is considered a Chillul Hashem but you just type away with gusto without checking the facts.
51
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:52 AM yodei'a vus maint chillul hashem Says:
“ In a way you are somewhat funny, you know why? you just proofed to the world you don’t know a thing about what Chillul Hashem is, you should at a minimum looked up the meaning and when it is considered a Chillul Hashem but you just type away with gusto without checking the facts. ”
actually, the sin of chillul hashem is when a minyan or more of JEWS sees it, so dont bash #46 till YOU check it up!
52
Jul 05, 2009 at 02:55 PM Mr. Rosenfeld not the Rabbi Says:
“ " the sin of Chillul Hashem is only when a none Jew sees a Jew not conforming to our Torah."
Just 2 clear up the most common mistake on VIN
That is so wrong!!!!!!
The sin is really when a jew sees it, it happens 2 b also when a non-jew sees it.
Learn b-fore u Preach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
”
I took the liberty to use a few excerpts from
Living in the World's View Chapter 4, Mishna 5
By Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld
Regardless if the Anonymous in # 28 is wrong with his assertion that Chillul Hashem is only when none Jews see the act, he is wrong, yes when a none Jew sees a Chillul Hashem it is worst, there is no difference between them, however the logic what poster # 28 said that the local parking lot Chillul Hashem is less egregious them the protests “with violence” and disseminated throughout the world, he is right 100%, so here are the excerpts
Here is the link. http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter4-5.html#
“This week's mishna discusses the severity of desecrating G-d's Name -- "Chillul Hashem" in the language of the Sages (we'll use the Hebrew term below). In the vernacular, the term "Chillul Hashem" is understood to refer to public or conspicuous misbehavior on the part of Jews. When a Jew, especially a visibly Orthodox one, publicly sins or otherwise creates a scene, the image of the Jew and Judaism is lowered in the eyes of the onlookers -- both Jew and Gentile. When an observant Jew (in dress, if not in behavior) is caught in a money-laundering or insider-trading scheme (and the press is always gleefully there to report it), or if Israel is condemned for human-rights abuses, it not only reflects on the Jews (and certainly not only on the individual sinner). Tragically, it casts a negative light on the very Torah the Jew supposedly upholds and ultimately, on G-d Himself”
“It has been wisely pointed out that Gentiles who are constantly seeking out and noticing the bad in Jews -- even if in very minor and nonreligious matters such as annoying personal habits -- are truly seeking to invalidate G-d Himself. They don't want to hear the message Judaism carries to the world -- that there is an all-knowing G-d who created man for a purpose and who will ultimately judge him for his every deed. And they will search for any means -- whether relevant or not -- of discrediting the nation which carries that message. Anti-Semitism is not simply a reaction to Jewish "pushiness", or to our capitalism, Communism,or racial inferiority. It is because the world recognizes -- but refuses to admit -- that we alone bear witness to the truth.
“Regarding Chillul Hashem, however, the inadvertent sinner is judged even more harshly. Say a Jew unwittingly cuts in front of someone in line, splashes mud on the next fellow's good slacks, or cruises by frustrated commuters in his single-occupancy vehicle not realizing he's in the HOV lane. These things happen to all of us one time or the other. The intentions of the perpetrator were perfectly innocent. Yet he has caused others annoyance and has portrayed Jews as being less than courteous or considerate. It is not his fault, but regardless, he has smeared the image of the Jew in the eyes others. Does such a schlemiel (Amazing! My spellchecker let that through!) deserve punishment?”
53
Jul 05, 2009 at 04:32 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I took the liberty to use a few excerpts from
Living in the World's View Chapter 4, Mishna 5
By Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld
Regardless if the Anonymous in # 28 is wrong with his assertion that Chillul Hashem is only when none Jews see the act, he is wrong, yes when a none Jew sees a Chillul Hashem it is worst, there is no difference between them, however the logic what poster # 28 said that the local parking lot Chillul Hashem is less egregious them the protests “with violence” and disseminated throughout the world, he is right 100%, so here are the excerpts
Here is the link. http://www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter4-5.html#
“This week's mishna discusses the severity of desecrating G-d's Name -- "Chillul Hashem" in the language of the Sages (we'll use the Hebrew term below). In the vernacular, the term "Chillul Hashem" is understood to refer to public or conspicuous misbehavior on the part of Jews. When a Jew, especially a visibly Orthodox one, publicly sins or otherwise creates a scene, the image of the Jew and Judaism is lowered in the eyes of the onlookers -- both Jew and Gentile. When an observant Jew (in dress, if not in behavior) is caught in a money-laundering or insider-trading scheme (and the press is always gleefully there to report it), or if Israel is condemned for human-rights abuses, it not only reflects on the Jews (and certainly not only on the individual sinner). Tragically, it casts a negative light on the very Torah the Jew supposedly upholds and ultimately, on G-d Himself”
“It has been wisely pointed out that Gentiles who are constantly seeking out and noticing the bad in Jews -- even if in very minor and nonreligious matters such as annoying personal habits -- are truly seeking to invalidate G-d Himself. They don't want to hear the message Judaism carries to the world -- that there is an all-knowing G-d who created man for a purpose and who will ultimately judge him for his every deed. And they will search for any means -- whether relevant or not -- of discrediting the nation which carries that message. Anti-Semitism is not simply a reaction to Jewish "pushiness", or to our capitalism, Communism,or racial inferiority. It is because the world recognizes -- but refuses to admit -- that we alone bear witness to the truth.
“Regarding Chillul Hashem, however, the inadvertent sinner is judged even more harshly. Say a Jew unwittingly cuts in front of someone in line, splashes mud on the next fellow's good slacks, or cruises by frustrated commuters in his single-occupancy vehicle not realizing he's in the HOV lane. These things happen to all of us one time or the other. The intentions of the perpetrator were perfectly innocent. Yet he has caused others annoyance and has portrayed Jews as being less than courteous or considerate. It is not his fault, but regardless, he has smeared the image of the Jew in the eyes others. Does such a schlemiel (Amazing! My spellchecker let that through!) deserve punishment?”
”
Thank you for putting me on the straight, in my mind I remembered that Chillul Hashem is only when none Jews are witness to the desecration of Hashem ,ok I was wrong and apologize to the poster I did put down. Now as to my original argument that the protesters are causing a bigger Chillul Hashem, due to the fact that their Chillul Hashem is broadcasted all over the world and in print, internet, and on TV, While the parking lot issue is local to Jerusalem, if I read Rabbis Dovid Rosenfeld writing right,then my argument still is in the right.
“Regarding Chillul Hashem, however, the inadvertent sinner is judged even more harshly. Say a Jew unwittingly cuts in front of someone in line, splashes mud on the next fellow's good slacks, or cruises by frustrated commuters in his single-occupancy vehicle not realizing he's in the HOV lane. These things happen to all of us one time or the other. The intentions of the perpetrator were perfectly innocent. Yet he has caused others annoyance and has portrayed Jews as being less than courteous or considerate. It is not his fault, but regardless, he has smeared the image of the Jew in the eyes others.”
I don’t think I need to add my words to this, it speaks for itself, Thank you “Mr. Rosenfeld not the Rabbi” for keeping me on the straight and narrow.
54
Jul 06, 2009 at 09:11 AM Joelly Joe Says:
“ Its good no one was hurt or arrested... That withstanding I am 100% supporting the charedi against the secular enchroachment and desecration of Shabbos. Its bad enough they are opening a parking lot for seculars in a charedi neighborhood but now they are charging a fee! For the sake of pikuach nefesh I stand with the charedi! ”
Well Thanks to people that felt they had to protest the free Parking Lot. Now we will just have to pay, And you people are going to Burn in hell for that.