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Jerusalem - Police to Press Charges Against All 65 Charedim Arrested in Riots |
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Jul 05, 2009 at 01:12 PM
Last updated on: Jul 05, 2009 at 04:51 PM
Last updated on: Jul 05, 2009 at 04:51 PM
News Source: Ynet Jpost
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Ten of the suspected rioters remain in custody through the duration of criminal proceedings against them, while the remainder has been released on bail, Jerusalem police spokesman Shmuel Ben-Ruby said.
Haredi activists were planning a massive mid-week demonstration against the opening of the parking lot opposite the Jaffa Gate on Saturdays.
The protest, which is pending police approval, is tentatively set for Wednesday.
**Update**
A few dozen members of the ultra-Orthodox community are currently staging a protest before the Jerusalem police station in which a number of their peers are being held
The arrest of the detainees has been remanded until the termination of the proceedings.
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Read Comments (52) — Post Yours »
1
Jul 05, 2009 at 01:15 PM Anonymous Says:
Who in their right minds expects police approval at this point?
2
Jul 05, 2009 at 01:37 PM awsome Says:
the police should press charges on the voilant ones
3
Jul 05, 2009 at 03:18 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Who in their right minds expects police approval at this point? ”
Are you kidding?
Of course, they will allow a legal and peaceful protest.
Just look at the pictures of the guys (some with long beards) shaking their fists in the faces of the young soldiers and policemen and screaming in their faces! You think any other police force would let that go by?
The demostrators know darn well that they are dealing with other yidden.
Outside of Eretz Yisrael, No One would have a hava amina to scream in the face of a cop and expect to walk away from it!
4
Jul 05, 2009 at 03:14 PM anonymous Says:
If these wilde chayes would worry as much about bain adom l'chavero the police would not have been involved
5
Jul 05, 2009 at 03:32 PM the religious eye opener Says:
Why of all the nerve how could irreligious Jews arrest a fellow brother it`s ironic a so called Jewish state with no official religiousness all i have to say is don`t call yourselves a Jewish state when you it`s government don`t keep shabbos shame shame.You should yourselves the irreligious Jewish state.
6
Jul 05, 2009 at 03:02 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Who in their right minds expects police approval at this point? ”
Again you a far rightwing nut Israel is a democracy they will give a permit for the demonstration and hopefully it will be no violence that would be a Kiddush Hashem
7
Jul 05, 2009 at 02:56 PM Anonymous Says:
I doubt whether even serving a few months in jail will have much effect on some of these bochurim who seem at times to act like zombies with no regard for the consequences of their actions. The Mayor and city council should renew its efforts with the hareidi leadership to find some compromise but ultimately if there is no willingness to compromise and continued violence at these demonstrations, the only answer will be to jail those at the very top of the leadership pyrmaid amond the hareidim who "incite these riots".
8
Jul 05, 2009 at 01:59 PM Anonymous Says:
Haredi "activists"? Get a JOB!!! Bunch of hooligans with a G-d complex. There was a time when we were able to call a thug a thug...
9
Jul 05, 2009 at 04:05 PM Anonymous Says:
A "yored" who was a policeman (gestapo) in yerushalayim told me once, he never had so much fun in his life as when he hit a haredi. afre lepumei.
10
Jul 05, 2009 at 03:59 PM Anonymous Says:
“ the police should press charges on the voilant ones ”
Thank You Mr. Obama for your thought.
11
Jul 05, 2009 at 03:57 PM No Shame? Says:
Is there no shame left for jews? These morons should be prosecuted & persecuted! They and others are an ugly eyesore in this world. Shame on their 'rabbis' who incited them, and told them to go and demonstrate. jews keep on showing the world that they are not to be trusted and continue to bring shame and violence into the world. May g-d cut them down early, or give them a tortured life!
Where are the concert ban rabbis on this issue? Why are they all of a sudden silent? Their silence is deafening!
12
Jul 05, 2009 at 04:08 PM Anonymous Says:
“ I doubt whether even serving a few months in jail will have much effect on some of these bochurim who seem at times to act like zombies with no regard for the consequences of their actions. The Mayor and city council should renew its efforts with the hareidi leadership to find some compromise but ultimately if there is no willingness to compromise and continued violence at these demonstrations, the only answer will be to jail those at the very top of the leadership pyrmaid amond the hareidim who "incite these riots". ”
The ones at the "top of the Chareidi leadership" are the ravs who called for the protests. Would you send these rabbis to jail for "inciting" riots? There could be a legal issue of free speech since they didn't directly advocate violence.
13
Jul 05, 2009 at 04:12 PM Anonymous Says:
Its a honor to serve time for kovod shabbos
14
Jul 05, 2009 at 04:07 PM anonymous Says:
I wonder if instead of Yidden policemen they would face Arab police how far they would go in being confrontational
15
Jul 05, 2009 at 05:10 PM Anonymous Says:
Even he former Chief Rabbi of Israel, Rav Lau, has said that these demonstrations are a chilul hashem and are not the right way to seek a change in government policy. This statement, from the most senior rav in EY and one of the great gadolei ha'dor, only reinforces the sentiment of most of the poplulation of J'lm that these bochurim should be punished to the maximum extent of the law for the violence against the police and the negative image of yiddin they have conveyed throughout the world.
16
Jul 05, 2009 at 05:03 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Its a honor to serve time for kovod shabbos ”
Well then, it looks like we will have about 65 new ehrleche yiddin since the municipal authorities seem determined to show these Charedi shabbos martyrs (aka "honorable hooligans")
17
Jul 05, 2009 at 04:59 PM Anonymous Says:
“ The ones at the "top of the Chareidi leadership" are the ravs who called for the protests. Would you send these rabbis to jail for "inciting" riots? There could be a legal issue of free speech since they didn't directly advocate violence. ”
yes i would and i do not think it would be an issue at all. Legally you can not incite a riot and argue free speech i am not a lawyer but i think that this law.
18
Jul 05, 2009 at 04:43 PM AuthenticSatmar Says:
One of the fundamental rights of any democracy is the right to protest against the gov't. This protest started peacefully, and anyone attending had every right to attend.
As is always, the police then attacks the crowd, forcing the crowd to defend themselves, and fight back. It is then that the protests get violent.
The police are the ones to blame for the violence. I am amazed at those on this site condemning the protesters, with absolutely no understanding how the Jerusalem police act. Most of those arrested were incorrectly so, and were just innocent bystanders.
Those condemning the protesters are the same ones that protested against the G7 meeting, against the US war in Iraq, etc... In that case it was OK, but not this??
Shame, shame, shame.
19
Jul 05, 2009 at 05:20 PM just one guy's opinion Says:
Call them HAFGANOS or PEACEFUL PROTESTS, whichever you prefer, but the correct term is POLITICS.
Someone needs to teach the Mayor who really has the power in the charaidi world and that while Ger's backing can get you elected it won't give you the power to govern.
This is just a warning to the next Mayor, get our OK or pay the price for the next four years.
Simple muscle flexing, nothing more, nothing less.
When the city allowed parking in the Old City on shabbos no one protested. When they closed parking in the Old City on shabbos in the interest on tourism, certain groups of charaidim saw their first opportunity to show who is in charge.
Just one guy's opinion. Don't waste your time insulting or Milhouseing me, if that is all you can do your opinion of me or anyone else or anthing in the world for that matter is of less than no interest to me.
And save 'the gedolim told us to protest' nonesense too. If the gedolim told you to protest it is because some 'askunim' gave them all the information they wanted them to have and not anything that might work against the 'askunim', so it isn't da'as torah, it is da'as askunim.
And for all you fake Rav Elyoshiv fanatics, did you get your wives to stop wearing litvish style shaitloch yet? Or did you find a cheap 'what he REALLY meant was....' cop-out because your wife doesn't listen to you anyway? Maybe that is why you are all busy yelling at the zionists who lay down their lives to defend you. You aren't taken seriouslly at home so you work it out at hafganos.
20
Jul 05, 2009 at 04:41 PM anonymous Says:
If Jewish police would act like Gestapo within a 1/2 hr. all sixty would be ready for tachrichim
21
Jul 05, 2009 at 05:43 PM Doghouse Says:
“ I wonder if instead of Yidden policemen they would face Arab police how far they would go in being confrontational ”
There are no Arab police in EY.
22
Jul 05, 2009 at 05:42 PM Doghouse Says:
“ yes i would and i do not think it would be an issue at all. Legally you can not incite a riot and argue free speech i am not a lawyer but i think that this law. ”
Stick to what you know, as you said you are not a lawyer.
23
Jul 05, 2009 at 05:37 PM Anonymous Says:
“ One of the fundamental rights of any democracy is the right to protest against the gov't. This protest started peacefully, and anyone attending had every right to attend.
As is always, the police then attacks the crowd, forcing the crowd to defend themselves, and fight back. It is then that the protests get violent.
The police are the ones to blame for the violence. I am amazed at those on this site condemning the protesters, with absolutely no understanding how the Jerusalem police act. Most of those arrested were incorrectly so, and were just innocent bystanders.
Those condemning the protesters are the same ones that protested against the G7 meeting, against the US war in Iraq, etc... In that case it was OK, but not this??
Shame, shame, shame. ”
As long you are an “AuthenticSatmar” your views about the Police is irrelevant, you are biased to any Zionist, therefore your views are blinded by hate to the Police.
24
Jul 05, 2009 at 05:34 PM Anonymous Says:
“ One of the fundamental rights of any democracy is the right to protest against the gov't. This protest started peacefully, and anyone attending had every right to attend.
As is always, the police then attacks the crowd, forcing the crowd to defend themselves, and fight back. It is then that the protests get violent.
The police are the ones to blame for the violence. I am amazed at those on this site condemning the protesters, with absolutely no understanding how the Jerusalem police act. Most of those arrested were incorrectly so, and were just innocent bystanders.
Those condemning the protesters are the same ones that protested against the G7 meeting, against the US war in Iraq, etc... In that case it was OK, but not this??
Shame, shame, shame. ”
Did you see with your own eyes how a cop attacks a peaceful demonsrator? No, you didn't, so don't blabber.
25
Jul 05, 2009 at 06:49 PM stumare Says:
pidyan shvooyin...have an appeal
26
Jul 05, 2009 at 06:48 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Did you see with your own eyes how a cop attacks a peaceful demonsrator? No, you didn't, so don't blabber. ”
I don't know if he did, but I did!! more than once, theIsraeli police appear to be untrained incivilized wild beasts, I witnessed gruesome scenes, they perform police brutality of the worst manner, in any other democratic country those officers would be harshly prosecuted.
27
Jul 05, 2009 at 06:47 PM WHAT COMMENTS? Says:
Accroding to most who have posted here you have judged all the bocrim in jail nw as criminals. Funny I personaly know one who was not involved and got arrested as has happened many times when the police are looking to grab some people to make "examples'. israeli police are not fair and democratic.
I once got some arab arrested for trying to seel me tifflin. When th epolice were questioning one of them he came out with a bloody mouth. NOW that scared me
How do you think they are treating the bochrim. there first allowe dshower was Firday and one phone call. WOW Fair justice?
you all should be ashamed at how you judge these people being treated unfairly
28
Jul 05, 2009 at 06:45 PM ShatzMatz Says:
I had an israeli electrician do some work for me. he told me that when he lived in isreal he was in the mishmar hagvul. that the reason he joined was because he had a passion for splitting the skulls of the doosim during protests. he also told me that his nephew was a teenager still living in israel, and he also couldn't wait to join mishmar hagvul.
the chareidim protesting might be backward fanatics, but they were there first and they never submitted themselves to zionist sovereignty.
As far as the violence goes, I believe that the blame for that can be split 50/50 between the protesters and police.
29
Jul 05, 2009 at 06:44 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Well then, it looks like we will have about 65 new ehrleche yiddin since the municipal authorities seem determined to show these Charedi shabbos martyrs (aka "honorable hooligans") ”
Floundering about. I have no idea of what it is you are trying to say. Try to stick with an intelligent thought. See it all the way through. Yes, hooligans. Not ehrliche yidden. Shabbos is bothering them? Like a hole in the wall. I can just see the talmidei chasam sofer and the vilna gaon lighting garbage cans and rioting in the streets. Trouble is, you've come so far and are so twisted in your thinking, that you wouldn't know real daas torah if it hit you on the side of the face. Dor ikaish ifsaltoil...
30
Jul 05, 2009 at 06:44 PM Anonymous Says:
“ Is there no shame left for jews? These morons should be prosecuted & persecuted! They and others are an ugly eyesore in this world. Shame on their 'rabbis' who incited them, and told them to go and demonstrate. jews keep on showing the world that they are not to be trusted and continue to bring shame and violence into the world. May g-d cut them down early, or give them a tortured life!
Where are the concert ban rabbis on this issue? Why are they all of a sudden silent? Their silence is deafening! ”
Shame on the "so called" jewish state, being ruled with communism and extreme anti religion.
Don't come talking about rioters, the rioting always happens by a few youngsters AFTER THE POLICE USES EXCESSIVE FORCE AND EXTREME POLICE BRUTALITY.
Shame on the Israeli government and police! shame on them for calling themselves Jewish, they are a disgrace for klal yisroel!
31
Jul 05, 2009 at 06:33 PM Anonymous Says:
Glad to see that sanity is beginning to prevail amongst our merry little band of posters & that the majority believe these crackpots deserve whatever punishment is meted out ( and then some!)
Speaking of merry bands of posters, aren't we lucky that Millhouse doesn't have wi-fi in his bungalow colony. He's obviously having a nice barbeque & a shpraize on a lawn chair somewhere & is too busy lazily swatting flies from his eyes to check in on us all, sweating it out in the city!
32
Jul 05, 2009 at 06:12 PM shmilubacsi Says:
#18 its the opposite that happened the police were pelted and they reacted youre twisting it around to youre liking for you to lie is nothing because this is youre nature you satmerers are a bunch of bozos mocking the rest of the world just look at youreselfs in the mirror youre mocking youre own selfs all of you are a big cruel joke on us all shame shame on you
33
Jul 05, 2009 at 07:16 PM Anonymous Says:
“ As long you are an “AuthenticSatmar” your views about the Police is irrelevant, you are biased to any Zionist, therefore your views are blinded by hate to the Police. ”
And vice versa, you as well as all commentators defending the brutal activity of those mishtara/ police are blinded by their crazy love to anything related to rotten zionism and to your blind hatred to every haredi and ehrliche yid.
34
Jul 05, 2009 at 07:12 PM Pashuteh Yid Says:
Let's be honest. These protests are not about Shabbos, but are simply anti-medinah. The Israeli govt never was forcing the frum to be mechalel shabbos here, rather just to allow chilonim who anyway are mechalel shabbos to have a place to park.
What is the proof? If Shabbos were the issue, why have these same groups not launched protests on the front lawns of all the Jewish actors and athletes and team owners here in the USA. Why haven't they picketed Bud Selig and forced him to close down his major league baseball team on Shabbos and throw diapers at him?
Furthermore, the Chazon Ish paskened that we do not use verbal or physical violence against chilonim today, since they are tinokos shenishbu, and will only be driven further away by it. Isn't he respected by all chareidim? What happened to daas torah?
35
Jul 05, 2009 at 07:11 PM Anonymous Says:
“ #18 its the opposite that happened the police were pelted and they reacted youre twisting it around to youre liking for you to lie is nothing because this is youre nature you satmerers are a bunch of bozos mocking the rest of the world just look at youreselfs in the mirror youre mocking youre own selfs all of you are a big cruel joke on us all shame shame on you ”
you are the one twisting around, check your facts before blabbering..
by each and every protest the police go wild just out of no where and no provocation, they appear like just blood thirsty animals, I have seen it and witnessed it, its painful, but that's the sad fact.
36
Jul 05, 2009 at 08:15 PM shmilubacsi Says:
#35 you stop at nothing weaving youre web of lies why would the police go wild and beat innocent people no such thing i mean in mass maybee they beat someone but not for nothing you present youre side as tough all you satmers are angels cant do anything wrong and the police as you say animals its obvious were you come from they are evil and you guys are all good and the words you use the hate that is in you is absolute as i said before you guys are a big joke on us everyday people look at youreselfs in the mirror and you will see someone who is mocking the rest of us just the clownish way you look get real and live in the real world not in a world of youre own fantasies
37
Jul 05, 2009 at 08:10 PM Anonymous Says:
“ And vice versa, you as well as all commentators defending the brutal activity of those mishtara/ police are blinded by their crazy love to anything related to rotten zionism and to your blind hatred to every haredi and ehrliche yid. ”
Again you are showing your true colors, I do not hate Satmer at all, as a matter of fact I have some extended family who belong in Satmer, I am only interested in facts, not perception i.e. any Zionist hate any Satmer chasid, but the fact is when any group have demonstrations, even here in the States, constantly, you have the organizers cry foul, and point to police brutality, Just asked Al Sharpton, so I don’t care what you say it is always the same, and as long you are a Satmer chasid you are not reliable, you are a nogiah badowor
38
Jul 05, 2009 at 08:30 PM Jerusalemite Says:
“ #35 you stop at nothing weaving youre web of lies why would the police go wild and beat innocent people no such thing i mean in mass maybee they beat someone but not for nothing you present youre side as tough all you satmers are angels cant do anything wrong and the police as you say animals its obvious were you come from they are evil and you guys are all good and the words you use the hate that is in you is absolute as i said before you guys are a big joke on us everyday people look at youreselfs in the mirror and you will see someone who is mocking the rest of us just the clownish way you look get real and live in the real world not in a world of youre own fantasies ”
#35 happens to be awfully right. the ys"m (police) are a bunch of haredi haters, its obvious by every charedi gathering, let alone a protest how they act to the charedim, and no, not for nothing, for blind hate to charedim.
39
Jul 05, 2009 at 08:26 PM Anonymous Says:
“ you are the one twisting around, check your facts before blabbering..
by each and every protest the police go wild just out of no where and no provocation, they appear like just blood thirsty animals, I have seen it and witnessed it, its painful, but that's the sad fact. ”
So why are your gedolim, who supposedly are aware of the situation, telling people to go protest peacefully if they will end up being beaten???? Are we mechuyav to put lives in danger in order to protest chillul shabbos when we are commanded to be mechallel shabbos due to sofaik sakonas nefashos?
Unless of course the gedolim only know the 'facts' as Nachum Eisenstein and a few others want them to know them.
40
Jul 05, 2009 at 08:25 PM Anonymous Says:
“ #35 you stop at nothing weaving youre web of lies why would the police go wild and beat innocent people no such thing i mean in mass maybee they beat someone but not for nothing you present youre side as tough all you satmers are angels cant do anything wrong and the police as you say animals its obvious were you come from they are evil and you guys are all good and the words you use the hate that is in you is absolute as i said before you guys are a big joke on us everyday people look at youreselfs in the mirror and you will see someone who is mocking the rest of us just the clownish way you look get real and live in the real world not in a world of youre own fantasies ”
Difference is, I was ther eye witnessing numerous small and big demonstrations, and you are just imagining. it's sad and upsetting, but he is right and you are just mistaking.
41
Jul 05, 2009 at 08:59 PM Anonymous Says:
funny how they are so tough on frum yidden...would thry treat arabs this way?
i doubt an arab gets arrested everytime they throw a rock or stone...im not saying stone throwing is right....but the state of israel should not be hypocritical.
42
Jul 05, 2009 at 08:41 PM Anonymous Says:
“ So why are your gedolim, who supposedly are aware of the situation, telling people to go protest peacefully if they will end up being beaten???? Are we mechuyav to put lives in danger in order to protest chillul shabbos when we are commanded to be mechallel shabbos due to sofaik sakonas nefashos?
Unless of course the gedolim only know the 'facts' as Nachum Eisenstein and a few others want them to know them. ”
You..."Mr. gedolim" again. You make believe you are a believer in torah and mitzvot but you simply use that as a pretext to bash the chareidi gadolim who seek to protect the sanctity of shabbos kodesh. what you call "your gedolim" are too busy learning torah and doing mitzvot to sit on the internet or watch the media to see what a few troubled yeshiva bochurim might be doing
43
Jul 05, 2009 at 11:53 PM chaim Says:
these ignorant savages should be put away for a long time,this is the only way these gangsters will stop burning down and destroying their own neighborhoods
44
Jul 06, 2009 at 04:34 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Its a honor to serve time for kovod shabbos ”
I agree with you %100 but there is one thing your not realizing to do it violently is not kavod if they would do it peacfully i would have no prblem with it but unfortunatly some of them are acting like vilda chayos!!
45
Jul 06, 2009 at 08:54 AM moish Says:
“ Shame on the "so called" jewish state, being ruled with communism and extreme anti religion.
Don't come talking about rioters, the rioting always happens by a few youngsters AFTER THE POLICE USES EXCESSIVE FORCE AND EXTREME POLICE BRUTALITY.
Shame on the Israeli government and police! shame on them for calling themselves Jewish, they are a disgrace for klal yisroel! ”
There is nothing jewish about the state, they openly support all religions.
46
Jul 06, 2009 at 08:51 AM moish Says:
“ As long you are an “AuthenticSatmar” your views about the Police is irrelevant, you are biased to any Zionist, therefore your views are blinded by hate to the Police. ”
"biased" is not an answer to an argument unless you have a valid reason to disagree and can explain why the others claim is wrong and how the bias affected it. Everything he wrote is true and you obviously have no argument to dispute it.
47
Jul 06, 2009 at 11:22 AM Anonymous Says:
“ Call them HAFGANOS or PEACEFUL PROTESTS, whichever you prefer, but the correct term is POLITICS.
Someone needs to teach the Mayor who really has the power in the charaidi world and that while Ger's backing can get you elected it won't give you the power to govern.
This is just a warning to the next Mayor, get our OK or pay the price for the next four years.
Simple muscle flexing, nothing more, nothing less.
When the city allowed parking in the Old City on shabbos no one protested. When they closed parking in the Old City on shabbos in the interest on tourism, certain groups of charaidim saw their first opportunity to show who is in charge.
Just one guy's opinion. Don't waste your time insulting or Milhouseing me, if that is all you can do your opinion of me or anyone else or anthing in the world for that matter is of less than no interest to me.
And save 'the gedolim told us to protest' nonesense too. If the gedolim told you to protest it is because some 'askunim' gave them all the information they wanted them to have and not anything that might work against the 'askunim', so it isn't da'as torah, it is da'as askunim.
And for all you fake Rav Elyoshiv fanatics, did you get your wives to stop wearing litvish style shaitloch yet? Or did you find a cheap 'what he REALLY meant was....' cop-out because your wife doesn't listen to you anyway? Maybe that is why you are all busy yelling at the zionists who lay down their lives to defend you. You aren't taken seriouslly at home so you work it out at hafganos. ”
You are right it is one man's opinion. Mind you, you have a very low opinion of everyone other than yourself including Rav Elyashav Shlit'a. We hereby crown you Dass Torah. World, kindly direct all questions and requests for providential intervention to Harav "just one guy's opinion" Shlit"a .
48
Jul 06, 2009 at 12:46 PM just one guy's opinion Says:
“ You are right it is one man's opinion. Mind you, you have a very low opinion of everyone other than yourself including Rav Elyashav Shlit'a. We hereby crown you Dass Torah. World, kindly direct all questions and requests for providential intervention to Harav "just one guy's opinion" Shlit"a . ”
You've apparently read something I didn't write. I have nothing but the highest respect for Rav Elyoshiv.
If you'll be kind enough to re-read my comments, I believe you'll see that my criticism is directed at certain people who have hijacked control over access to Rav Elyoshiv and manipulate the information they pass to him to produce the desired outcome and others who claim total devotion to his every utterence yet ignore the ones they find inconvienent to follow.
The former is not a new problem for gedolai yisrael. Access to HRH"G RSHKB"G Harav Shach zy"a was also a problem in his later years, as it has been by many other gedolai yisrael, particularly in their years of declining health, r"l.
The latter too is not the newest problem on the block. Many choshuv roshai yeshiva have self-appointed 'translators' who are always ready with 'what the rosh yeshiva really meant'.
Feel free to disagree with my opinion of the political nature of these holy hafganos but please, don't try to put words in my mouth.
My wife too continues to wear the litvish-style shaitloch Rav Elyoshiv forbids. on the other hand, despite my total respect for him (as if he needs my respect) I never claimed to be a loyal follower of Rav Elyoshiv.
My issue is with the fakes.
49
Jul 06, 2009 at 01:14 PM Dave Says:
“ funny how they are so tough on frum yidden...would thry treat arabs this way?
i doubt an arab gets arrested everytime they throw a rock or stone...im not saying stone throwing is right....but the state of israel should not be hypocritical. ”
Since stone throwers have been shot, and have had their homes bulldozed, I think it is dishonest to claim that the State of Israel is being harder on the Chareidi.
50
Jul 06, 2009 at 01:54 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You've apparently read something I didn't write. I have nothing but the highest respect for Rav Elyoshiv.
If you'll be kind enough to re-read my comments, I believe you'll see that my criticism is directed at certain people who have hijacked control over access to Rav Elyoshiv and manipulate the information they pass to him to produce the desired outcome and others who claim total devotion to his every utterence yet ignore the ones they find inconvienent to follow.
The former is not a new problem for gedolai yisrael. Access to HRH"G RSHKB"G Harav Shach zy"a was also a problem in his later years, as it has been by many other gedolai yisrael, particularly in their years of declining health, r"l.
The latter too is not the newest problem on the block. Many choshuv roshai yeshiva have self-appointed 'translators' who are always ready with 'what the rosh yeshiva really meant'.
Feel free to disagree with my opinion of the political nature of these holy hafganos but please, don't try to put words in my mouth.
My wife too continues to wear the litvish-style shaitloch Rav Elyoshiv forbids. on the other hand, despite my total respect for him (as if he needs my respect) I never claimed to be a loyal follower of Rav Elyoshiv.
My issue is with the fakes. ”
You assume too much naivete on the part of Rav Shach zt'l an H"l Rav Eliyashav Shlita. When Maran Zatzal spoke all yelled, as you are presently, that he doesn't have all the information or the correct info, etc....Time showed that everything he said and predicted was accurate.
I must admit that I too take issue with those that, based on their own logic will define and anticipate what .....best example......"Rav Aaron Zt"l volt gehalten".
I do apologize to you though. I see so much kefira literally on these various sights that on occasion I feel obligated to speak up. Maybe someone out there will get the message. some of the things written on various issues is literally painful as one assumes that those viewing these sights have gone through the yeshiva system
51
Jul 06, 2009 at 02:39 PM Anonymous Says:
“ You assume too much naivete on the part of Rav Shach zt'l an H"l Rav Eliyashav Shlita. When Maran Zatzal spoke all yelled, as you are presently, that he doesn't have all the information or the correct info, etc....Time showed that everything he said and predicted was accurate.
I must admit that I too take issue with those that, based on their own logic will define and anticipate what .....best example......"Rav Aaron Zt"l volt gehalten".
I do apologize to you though. I see so much kefira literally on these various sights that on occasion I feel obligated to speak up. Maybe someone out there will get the message. some of the things written on various issues is literally painful as one assumes that those viewing these sights have gone through the yeshiva system ”
Between being fed information by people with agendas and then having his instructions passed along by others with agendas I don't assume naivete or anything else on the part of Rav Elyoshiv.
Certainly, had the words of Maran a"h been heeded on the large issues the country would not be in the mess it is in today.
However, on may smaller issues there were too many people with various personal agendas who could lock-out the sides of an issue they didn't deem worthy of being heard.
I don't c"v mean this as disrespectful to Maran a"h. I've seen the same thing happen to a lesser extent by one of my own roshai yeshiva.
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Jul 07, 2009 at 02:53 AM Observer Says:
“ Call them HAFGANOS or PEACEFUL PROTESTS, whichever you prefer, but the correct term is POLITICS.
Someone needs to teach the Mayor who really has the power in the charaidi world and that while Ger's backing can get you elected it won't give you the power to govern.
This is just a warning to the next Mayor, get our OK or pay the price for the next four years.
Simple muscle flexing, nothing more, nothing less.
When the city allowed parking in the Old City on shabbos no one protested. When they closed parking in the Old City on shabbos in the interest on tourism, certain groups of charaidim saw their first opportunity to show who is in charge.
Just one guy's opinion. Don't waste your time insulting or Milhouseing me, if that is all you can do your opinion of me or anyone else or anthing in the world for that matter is of less than no interest to me.
And save 'the gedolim told us to protest' nonesense too. If the gedolim told you to protest it is because some 'askunim' gave them all the information they wanted them to have and not anything that might work against the 'askunim', so it isn't da'as torah, it is da'as askunim.
And for all you fake Rav Elyoshiv fanatics, did you get your wives to stop wearing litvish style shaitloch yet? Or did you find a cheap 'what he REALLY meant was....' cop-out because your wife doesn't listen to you anyway? Maybe that is why you are all busy yelling at the zionists who lay down their lives to defend you. You aren't taken seriouslly at home so you work it out at hafganos. ”
"You aren't taken seriouslly at home so you work it out at hafganos."
Good line, it may very well be true.